In desperate need of new irons.

As the title says, I am in desperate need of new irons. Currently I'm playing with a set of old Acuity cavity backs. They are terrible clubs and feel all wrong. I'm looking to buy used clubs and then get them fitted to me. I am a mid-handicapper looking to seriously step up my game and I hit irons very well. Everything else in my bag (except my woods which I shy away from) has been upgraded, so now it is time for some irons. My price range is $350 and I will likely be buying from eBay. I'm looking at Cleveland and Callaway right now but I don't know whether or not to go with CG Red (if I can find a good deal), X-16 Pro Series, X-18, X-20, X-20 Tour, X-Tour, X-Forged, or CG1. I prefer a thinner topline too. Any of your help will be greatly appreciated, and I will test before I buy, but I just wanted to know your input of what I should test out. Thank you so much.

The general feeling on GR is that it would be worth your while to at least test the Wilson Ci7s or Pi7s. They will be heaps cheaper than the ones you listed, and you could probably get a brand new set in your price range. You say you want a thin top line so the Pi7s might be best for you, although you listed Calaway X series which are thick top line, clunky, oversized shovels. In the case of the Callys, the Ci7s will crap all over them.

That's why I've been so hesitant on Callaways. Many people keep pushing them on me, but I just think they are very buly and too similar to the bulk of my POS Acuitys.

This [B][URL="http://www.ebayoyo.com/565_Callaway-X-22-Irons.html"]Callaway X-22 Irons [/URL][/B]is the backbone of your golf club and it is essential to your enjoyment of the sport.

If feeling all wrong is the problem, I'm not sure how you will be able to ascertain that different clubs will feel right if you buy them on e-bay.

I'm not making light of the problem of finding appropriate clubs. Finding the right fourteen for myself has been a fifty-one year mission, and I'm still looking for Moby Dick.

Hello KillerCelt,

I hope to disuade your inkling of spending money on crap that will be half price next year. I have recently bought a set of irons on ebay that I have been waiting for for about 15 years. They are the Yonex Tour Forged irons with the LTB 600 graphite shafts in S flex 3-10 iron with a P wedge. These are the irons that Phil Mickelson and Scott Hoch used when they were playing for Yonex. I am not selling them but there are a couple of sets for sale on ebay for about the amount of money that you are willing to fork over. Originally these were $1500.00 irons if not more. I bought myself a set and they are the best irons that I have ever played with. I got the spec sheet from Japan and I was able to get them bent 2 degrees upright for my tall body. The distance is comparable to today's irons, and the shafts are very strong. The long irons are very easy to hit too, easier than any other 3 iron that I have tried. I shoot in the low 80's to high 70's in Northern California, so I know a little bit of what I am talking about.
I recently tried the new calla"not the way" at a demo day and I tried the prototype forged iron that Mick was using at the masters, and I have to say that they put a DG S300 shaft on a good looking head but the performance really sucked. I had just hit some new bridgestone irons with really good project x shafts in them and calla "not" didn't come close to the feel that I had with the bridges. As for the Cleveland, they have not made a good looking iron since the Tour Action forged iron, before Corey went with the gardening tools "VAS" irons. I really hate the way that Calla"crap", Taylor Mait, and Ch-Ching, gouge the common golf consumer with less than half rate garbage that a machine made in China.
In my opinion, Japanese forged irons back in the early 90's were made by hand and by someone who probably made samurai swords too. So, I hope that you will give an oldie but goodie a chance. Thanks for reading.

Herb

[QUOTE=herbsewell] So, I hope that you will give an oldie but goodie a chance. Thanks for reading.

Herb[/QUOTE]

All input is greatly valued and appreciated. I just need to try to find a place where I can try out some Yonex clubs. Honestly, I've never heard of them until you mentioned them, but I'll call around and see what I can find.

[QUOTE=NiftyNiblick]If feeling all wrong is the problem, I'm not sure how you will be able to ascertain that different clubs will feel right if you buy them on e-bay.
[/QUOTE]

I understand this. As stated in my original post, I intend on trying out different models. I just need advice for where I should begin my search based on your opinions.

Yonex is in golf, badmintion, and tennis. I don't think too highly of the stuff now adays. But Colin Montgomerie is using them.

They are hard to come by, meaning that they are rare.

Herb, thanks for the info re:Yonex

I was in a store the other day and they had a set of those Yonex in the second hand rack for about $180. They were in regular raphite shaft, but they looked very sweet and in very good nick, and really had me thinking. I just don't think regular graphite would be strong enough for me, but I'm thinking about gettng them and putting them away for when I hit fifty and need regular graphite shafts.

P.S. Some guys on this board may think we are one in the same after reading your samurai comments. I've floated that a few times and been shouted down by the mainstream OEM users. I totally agree that if you are gonna go forged, you've gotta go Japanese forged.

I am a major iron set junkie and have over 40 sets. Mainly forged blades and players cavities. But I also have other "forgiving" sets. I have many forged Japanese sets made over the last decade which have been mentioned so far. Many of these quality sets can be found cheaply and are real quality. Some of the cheapest and best are Bridgestone Tourstage, Marumen and even some old Macgregors (pcb tours are miura forged). Wilson have been mentioned and they are great value for money IMO. Some of my older favorites which have been largely forgotten but are true gems are MacGregor VIP 1025m and Maxfli A10 combo set. Mizuno and Titleist are popular and good quality but you don't have to pay those prices for real quality if you do some research. I haven't got any experience with Yonex but I have seen their sets going very cheaply. Most sets I saw had graphite shafts, which I don't currently use.

Do yourself a favor and ignore all these esoteric and bargain basement suggestions. Go get your self a set of Callaway x-22 tours. They are very good clubs. Most of the clowns here only bash them because they can't afford them. Having worked in the industry I know that Callaway's are the lowest margin item around. Golf shops only make 30 points on them, while they make 50 points on most of the suggestions offered in this thread.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]Do yourself a favor and ignore all these esoteric and bargain basement suggestions. Go get your self a set of Callaway x-22 tours. They are very good clubs. Most of the clowns here only bash them because they can't afford them. Having worked in the industry I know that Callaway's are the lowest margin item around. Golf shops only make 30 points on them, while they make 50 points on most of the suggestions offered in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Why are they so freakin expensive then? They aren't that much better in quality. Where's the extra cost?

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]Do yourself a favor and ignore all these esoteric and bargain basement suggestions. Go get your self a set of Callaway x-22 tours. They are very good clubs. Most of the clowns here only bash them because they can't afford them. Having worked in the industry I know that Callaway's are the lowest margin item around. Golf shops only make 30 points on them, while they make 50 points on most of the suggestions offered in this thread.[/QUOTE]
You keep telling yourself that.

Callaway = chopper. This is well-documented.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Callaway = chopper. This is well-documented.[/QUOTE]

Actually this is well documented. No self respecting player that has a clue about playing this game would fork over a 30% premium for clubs just because of the name. Callaway caters to a demographic that thinks if they spend more on clubs they'll actually play better. I would never buy any Callaway product for full price. Buy them when they get discounted back into the realm of the reasonable the year after.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]I am a major iron set junkie and have over 40 sets. Mainly forged blades and players cavities. But I also have other "forgiving" sets. I have many forged Japanese sets made over the last decade which have been mentioned so far. Many of these quality sets can be found cheaply and are real quality. Some of the cheapest and best are Bridgestone Tourstage, Marumen and even some old Macgregors (pcb tours are miura forged). Wilson have been mentioned and they are great value for money IMO. Some of my older favorites which have been largely forgotten but are true gems are MacGregor VIP 1025m and Maxfli A10 combo set. Mizuno and Titleist are popular and good quality but you don't have to pay those prices for real quality if you do some research. I haven't got any experience with Yonex but I have seen their sets going very cheaply. Most sets I saw had graphite shafts, which I don't currently use.[/QUOTE]

I still play a set of those VIPs. Really a great club!

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]Do yourself a favor and ignore all these esoteric and bargain basement suggestions. Go get your self a set of Callaway x-22 tours. They are very good clubs. Most of the clowns here only bash them because they can't afford them. Having worked in the industry I know that Callaway's are the lowest margin item around. Golf shops only make 30 points on them, while they make 50 points on most of the suggestions offered in this thread.[/QUOTE]
I may have to buy a set and see, if your constant preaching of x 22 is worthy or not. I am lookin to buy a set of drunken clubs, I can play on bad days or weeks when needed .

MP 33's are still a quality offering. Something to test at the very least

Mizuno MPs. U can't go wrong. Anyway, buy forged ones because u can adjust the loft and lie angle in future. Whether cast or not, the pros' irons are custom made.

[QUOTE=herbsewell]Hello KillerCelt,

I hope to disuade your inkling of spending money on crap that will be half price next year. I have recently bought a set of irons on ebay that I have been waiting for for about 15 years. They are the Yonex Tour Forged irons with the LTB 600 graphite shafts in S flex 3-10 iron with a P wedge. These are the irons that Phil Mickelson and Scott Hoch used when they were playing for Yonex. I am not selling them but there are a couple of sets for sale on ebay for about the amount of money that you are willing to fork over. Originally these were $1500.00 irons if not more. I bought myself a set and they are the best irons that I have ever played with. I got the spec sheet from Japan and I was able to get them bent 2 degrees upright for my tall body. The distance is comparable to today's irons, and the shafts are very strong. The long irons are very easy to hit too, easier than any other 3 iron that I have tried. I shoot in the low 80's to high 70's in Northern California, so I know a little bit of what I am talking about.
I recently tried the new calla"not the way" at a demo day and I tried the prototype forged iron that Mick was using at the masters, and I have to say that they put a DG S300 shaft on a good looking head but the performance really sucked. I had just hit some new bridgestone irons with really good project x shafts in them and calla "not" didn't come close to the feel that I had with the bridges. As for the Cleveland, they have not made a good looking iron since the Tour Action forged iron, before Corey went with the gardening tools "VAS" irons. I really hate the way that Calla"crap", Taylor Mait, and Ch-Ching, gouge the common golf consumer with less than half rate garbage that a machine made in China.
In my opinion, Japanese forged irons back in the early 90's were made by hand and by someone who probably made samurai swords too. So, I hope that you will give an oldie but goodie a chance. Thanks for reading.

Herb[/QUOTE]

LOL at this guy!!!! Trying to sell a set of 15 year old crappy Yonex clubs!!!! Hey maybe he'll throw in a graphite headed driver too!!!!

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Why are they so freakin expensive then? They aren't that much better in quality. Where's the extra cost?[/QUOTE]

R&D. Callaway is way ahead of the rest of the pack in technology.

[QUOTE=herbsewell]You keep telling yourself that.[/QUOTE]

Don't need to tell myself that, I've seen the numbers. If anyone else on this board has worked in retail they'd have to agree.

Any luck moving your 15 year old Yonex irons??? LOL at you!

[QUOTE=12sandwich]I may have to buy a set and see, if your constant preaching of x 22 is worthy or not. I am lookin to buy a set of drunken clubs, I can play on bad days or weeks when needed .[/QUOTE]

I really don't get the whole logic behind buying a set of clubs that you can only play well when you're really on. Play a set of clubs that accounts or softens your misses. That is if you're more interested in playing good golf than placating your ego.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Why are they so freakin expensive then? They aren't that much better in quality. Where's the extra cost?[/QUOTE]
They spend the most on endorsements and advertisements. It's not like there is any difference between X-12's through whatever number they are on now besides decals and paint. Every OEM does it, cally just charges more and the lemmings actually think there is something to it. Good marketing.

[QUOTE=SDB1]Actually this is well documented. No self respecting player that has a clue about playing this game would fork over a 30% premium for clubs just because of the name. Callaway caters to a demographic that thinks if they spend more on clubs they'll actually play better. I would never buy any Callaway product for full price. Buy them when they get discounted back into the realm of the reasonable the year after.[/QUOTE]

You gotta pay for quality and cutting edge design. Callaway outspends every other golf company in the industry in terms of R&D. No one else is close. They brought multimaterial club heads to the forefront...Cobra, Titleist and others followed suit a few years after. They took extreme perimeter weighting to a whole new level in their first Big Bertha irons and have refined that technology over time into players clubs. They are smart too in acquiring technology. They purchased Top-Flite for the technology patents in the Strata. Then they used their massive vault of cash to take on Titleist and sued them to stop infringing on that patent...basically destroying the ProV1 as we know it. You fellas don't want to admit it, but this company is the most cutting edge manufacturer of golf clubs on the planet.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]They spend the most on endorsements and advertisements. It's not like there is any difference between X-12's through whatever number they are on now besides decals and paint. Every OEM does it, cally just charges more and the lemmings actually think there is something to it. Good marketing.[/QUOTE]

Ever heard of a company called Taylor Made. They pay anyone who will take it, $10K a week to use their driver on tour so they can win the driver count. TM has far and away the largest tour endorsement budget. If you look at the number of Callaway staff players on tour, it's really not all that large. Mostly a few big-name players and a few company favorites like Rocco.

Also you statement about there being no difference between the x-12's and the x-22's is pretty ignorant. You might want to actually try to hit them before making that statement. They incorporated VFT technology in all sets post x-12. They have also thinned the top line and sole while maintaining foregiveness in each successive line. The x-14's are basically the same forgiveness level as the x-22's they just look more playable.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]Ever heard of a company called Taylor Made. They pay anyone who will take it, $10K a week to use their driver on tour so they can win the driver count. TM has far and away the largest tour endorsement budget. If you look at the number of Callaway staff players on tour, it's really not all that large. Mostly a few big-name players and a few company favorites like Rocco.

Also you statement about there being no difference between the x-12's and the x-22's is pretty ignorant. You might want to actually try to hit them before making that statement. They incorporated VFT technology in all sets post x-12. They have also thinned the top line and sole while maintaining foregiveness in each successive line. The x-14's are basically the same forgiveness level as the x-22's they just look more playable.[/QUOTE]
This is worse than I originally thought. You may be brainwashed beyond repair.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]This is worse than I originally thought. You may be brainwashed beyond repair.[/QUOTE]

The golf shop I worked at...we bought everything at "personal use" discount. Basically you could get a $500 driver for $150. A set of $700 callaway irons would cost us $300. We would get this type of discount on every mananufacturers clubs. 90% of us played Callaway.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]The golf shop I worked at...we bought everything at "personal use" discount. Basically you could get a $500 driver for $150. A set of $700 callaway irons would cost us $300. We would get this type of discount on every mananufacturers clubs. 90% of us played Callaway.[/QUOTE]

90% choppers at your golf shop...thats about par for the course.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]You gotta pay for quality and cutting edge design. Callaway outspends every other golf company in the industry in terms of R&D. this company is the most cutting edge manufacturer of golf clubs on the planet.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so but I still don't like their clubs. I've played their drivers and fairway woods and much preferred my Clevelands. And that FTI square shaped driver has got to be the biggest overrated, overpriced POS ever. Just hearing the tinny, garbage can sound of it when others are teeing off almost makes me nauseous. Played their fusion irons which I also didn't like much, dead horrible feeling things. I have an X forged wedge which I like but anything designed by Roger Cleveland has got to be good right?

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Maybe so but I still don't like their clubs. I've played their drivers and fairway woods and much preferred my Clevelands. And that FTI square shaped driver has got to be the biggest overrated, overpriced POS ever. Just hearing the tinny, garbage can sound of it when others are teeing off almost makes me nauseous. Played their fusion irons which I also didn't like much, dead horrible feeling things. I have an X forged wedge which I like but anything designed by Roger Cleveland has got to be good right?[/QUOTE]

Their Roger Cleveland designed wedges are excellent. I've never used their FTI of FTIQ driver. Just the traditional shape heads. Those seem to work well.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]The golf shop I worked at...we bought everything at "personal use" discount. Basically you could get a $500 driver for $150. A set of $700 callaway irons would cost us $300. We would get this type of discount on every mananufacturers clubs. 90% of us played Callaway.[/QUOTE]

Logical. There's a local golf shop which is selling a bunch of Callaway FT-i's at only USD 130.00 each. Unfortunately, that bunch has been there since last month.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Maybe so but I still don't like their clubs. I've played their drivers and fairway woods and much preferred my Clevelands. And that FTI square shaped driver has got to be the biggest overrated, overpriced POS ever. Just hearing the tinny, garbage can sound of it when others are teeing off almost makes me nauseous. Played their fusion irons which I also didn't like much, dead horrible feeling things. I have an X forged wedge which I like but anything designed by Roger Cleveland has got to be good right?[/QUOTE]

I sold my X-forged 60* wedge months ago coz it kept ripping off the ball. The grooves are too sharp.

I think it's a logical assumption that M3W is a sod laying chopper.

For that price range in a players CB I would take a good look at the Titleist 755's (fairly cheap now), Srixon 701 or 701 tours and every now and then you can score a set of Bridgestone J36's of your choice (PC,CB, or combo set) at a reasonable price and in good shape.

[QUOTE=No_Idea]

I sold my X-forged 60* wedge months ago coz it kept ripping off the ball. The grooves are too sharp.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah you are right. My 58* shreds balls like you wouldn't believe. Those grooves are razor sharp. I have previously used mainly Cleveland wedges and by comparison they hardly ripped the ball at all. I still like the wedge though.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]Their Roger Cleveland designed wedges are excellent. I've never used their FTI of FTIQ driver. Just the traditional shape heads. Those seem to work well.[/QUOTE]

I used the Callaway X driver, 3 wood and 21* hybrid in a demo set. I much prefer the feel of my Cleveland driver and 3 wood. The 21* hybrid was ok. Similar to my 22* Halo.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I think it's a logical assumption that M3W is a sod laying chopper.[/QUOTE]

Seriously M3W, you should try some MPs. Soon, all of your stocks will be Mizunos.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Yeah you are right. My 58* shreds balls like you wouldn't believe. Those grooves are razor sharp. I have previously used mainly Cleveland wedges and by comparison they hardly ripped the ball at all. I still like the wedge though.[/QUOTE]

It sucks to see a new ball being shredded during its first few holes.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle] They purchased Top-Flite for the technology patents in the Strata. Then they used their massive vault of cash to take on Titleist and sued them to stop infringing on that patent...basically destroying the ProV1 as we know it. [/QUOTE]

You gotta give the Callaway guys credit for this one. They showed alot of strategic skill doing this. It never hurts to have the guy that spent time on Wall St. hang around your R&D guys a little. Even though they probably hate each other.

But M3, you really should lay off the Kool-Aid. There are alot of good clubs out there and I've played with many who bagged Callaway but can only recall one who hit them well.

Try Ping S57's or S58's. The top line is pretty thin and they are really workable.

If you want a great set of playable cavity backs, at a good price, try a set Cobra Carbon CB's

[QUOTE=KillerCelt]As the title says, I am in desperate need of new irons. Currently I'm playing with a set of old Acuity cavity backs. They are terrible clubs and feel all wrong. I'm looking to buy used clubs and then get them fitted to me. I am a mid-handicapper looking to seriously step up my game and I hit irons very well. Everything else in my bag (except my woods which I shy away from) has been upgraded, so now it is time for some irons. My price range is $350 and I will likely be buying from eBay. I'm looking at Cleveland and Callaway right now but I don't know whether or not to go with CG Red (if I can find a good deal), X-16 Pro Series, X-18, X-20, X-20 Tour, X-Tour, X-Forged, or CG1. I prefer a thinner topline too. Any of your help will be greatly appreciated, and I will test before I buy, but I just wanted to know your input of what I should test out. Thank you so much.[/QUOTE]
You could try the hogan bh5 irons, they are a great deal at the moment. $150 bucks or less. You cant get a more forgiving iron.

[QUOTE=Mr 3 Wiggle]You gotta pay for quality and cutting edge design. Callaway outspends every other golf company in the industry in terms of R&D. No one else is close. They brought multimaterial club heads to the forefront...Cobra, Titleist and others followed suit a few years after. They took extreme perimeter weighting to a whole new level in their first Big Bertha irons and have refined that technology over time into players clubs. They are smart too in acquiring technology. They purchased Top-Flite for the technology patents in the Strata. Then they used their massive vault of cash to take on Titleist and sued them to stop infringing on that patent...basically destroying the ProV1 as we know it. You fellas don't want to admit it, but this company is the most cutting edge manufacturer of golf clubs on the planet.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with Callaway. I didn't used to like their stuff but their most recent offerings are very nice. I still would never pay the money they want when they first come out. To me Callaway has always caterred to the hacker demographic. Nobody that has an inkling of decent game would pay 30-50% premium for clubs with little to no performance improvement over their competitors. The only people I know that have actually purchased brand new Callaway equipment are 4 time a year hackers that thought the extra dollars spent would net them a better game.

People that play a lot of golf and need to replace their equipment every other year or so don't want to spend $2-3K on gear. I thought they had a winner in their I-Mix system when it first came out but would never pay what they were asking. A year later and I was able to pick up an FT-5 I-Mix for $149! Problem is you can't get any real shafts for the damn thing. They only have like 3 offerings in an X-Flex!!! Why would they offer an entire club customization system and not offer shafts to players who are most likely to benefit? It's because they don't give a crap about better players! They cater to hacks!