What cause what in the golf swing?

Many think we can change our footwork by just focusing on that--and many other things in the golf swing.

But actually everything in the downswing is pretty much automatic--and involuntary. So to make a good downswing we must achieve a correct top position. When we have it back on plane-- we will almost automatically make a good downswing, on plane, accelerating, and in balance.

This lesson is a good illustration of that. I was perpetually taking it up OVER the correct plane, then downswinging OTT. No matter how hard I tried, I could NOT change that. The answer was simply to push my hands further out, more like Moe Norman, and then consciously take it back flatter, more "around" behind me. Notice that he wanted me to bring my elbow down BEHIND my hip-- which actually means to lead with the hip turn to clear that hip before my arms came down.

Since then (last November) I have been working on this and playing pretty good.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNAayis190[/url]

This teacher is Scott Mahlberg, top 25 in the nation, former touring pro, and one of the best in the San Diego area. Stadium Golf. Look him up.

Larry

[B]What cause what in the golf swing?

[B]What the hell does that mean??:confused:

[/B][/B]

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Many think we can change our footwork by just focusing on that--and many other things in the golf swing.

But actually everything in the downswing is pretty much automatic--and involuntary. So to make a good downswing we must achieve a correct top position. When we have it back on plane-- we will almost automatically make a good downswing, on plane, accelerating, and in balance.

This lesson is a good illustration of that. I was perpetually taking it up OVER the correct plane, then downswinging OTT. No matter how hard I tried, I could NOT change that. The answer was simply to push my hands further out, more like Moe Norman, and then consciously take it back flatter, more "around" behind me. Notice that he wanted me to bring my elbow down BEHIND my hip-- which actually means to lead with the hip turn to clear that hip before my arms came down.

Since then (last November) I have been working on this and playing pretty good.[/quote]

"Pretty good", Larry? You can barely break 100.

[quote]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNAayis190[/url]

This teacher is Scott Mahlberg, top 25 in the nation, former touring pro, and one of the best in the San Diego area. Stadium Golf. Look him up.[/QUOTE]

I will say, that is a better swing.

I will also say, if you hadn't cried wolf so many times about how you'd found the "secret" that everyone needed to be pursuing, maybe someone would care.

Hi

Lorry is back, obviously the Brownshirts must be having a little down time........

Edgey

Looks good Larry. I have the opposite problem...I tend to get under plane with my short irons. Have you been working on your putting and short game any?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]The answer was simply to push my hands further out, more like Moe Norman, and then consciously take it back flatter, more "around" behind me.
Larry[/QUOTE]

You have so many other shared traits with Moe. I would think this is a great approach for you. Your instructor obviously found something that you could relate to.

More of the same Larry, LOL.

[QUOTE=
I will say, that is a better swing..[/QUOTE]

That was last November. I have worked since then to make it much better than that. I can get the clubshaft to appear almost down to my elbow.

I posted that video clip because others here may not be able to afford expensive lessons. I hope some can benefit from this simple fix and possibly do the same without a lesson.

The golf swing should feel much like a baseball swing--the top position should trigger a correct downswing sequence-- hips, then shoulders, then arms. The trick is to find your top position that does that. For me it was pushing my hands a little further out and then consciously turning flatter, getting the club "behind" me.

Good luck!

Larry

[QUOTE=The Purist]Looks good Larry. I have the opposite problem...I tend to get under plane with my short irons. Have you been working on your putting and short game any?[/QUOTE]

I just play the course on weekends. As I play I work to incorporate what seems to work better--and for me a big change in every golf shot a few months ago was is to make my dominant left hand control the club. I putt with my left totally in charge of the putter. I do the same with driver and long clubs, even making a few left hand only practice swings before taking my stance, to feel my lefty in charge of the club. It works--

I have been consistently hitting more fairways and GIR than ever. I drilled my 2i against the wind 200 yards Sunday, that was fun. My playing partner didn't even know I had one. He tried to hit 5w the same distance and the wind nearly blew it back to his feet!

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]That was last November. I have worked since then to make it much better than that. I can get the clubshaft to appear almost down to my elbow.

I posted that video clip because others here may not be able to afford expensive lessons. I hope some can benefit from this simple fix and possibly do the same without a lesson. [/quote]

You've worked to make it "much better", but you can barely break 100...

...don't you see how incredible (literally: not credible) this makes you look in light of the fact that you've told us for years that you were already hitting "all the fairways and nearly all the greens"?

Either you were lying then, or you're lying now. Or both.

[quote]The golf swing should feel much like a baseball swing--the top position should trigger a correct downswing sequence-- hips, then shoulders, then arms. The trick is to find your top position that does that. For me it was pushing my hands a little further out and then consciously turning flatter, getting the club "behind" me.[/QUOTE]

There! You said it!

"For me". That's the first time you've ever suggested that perhaps what you've been told is what is appropriate for [I]you[/I].

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I just play the course on weekends. As I play I work to incorporate what seems to work better--and for me a big change in every golf shot a few months ago was is to make my dominant left hand control the club. I putt with my left totally in charge of the putter. I do the same with driver and long clubs, even making a few left hand only practice swings before taking my stance, to feel my lefty in charge of the club. It works-- [/quote]

Funny. For years, you told anyone that trying to control your club with your dominant was absolute death...

[quote]I have been consistently hitting more fairways and GIR than ever. I drilled my 2i against the wind 200 yards Sunday, that was fun. My playing partner didn't even know I had one. He tried to hit 5w the same distance and the wind nearly blew it back to his feet![/QUOTE]

Riiiiiight. And then you shot another 98... ...which you didn't post, because you know that just a couple of more scores posted and your handicap will shoot up again.

:)

[quote=poe4soul][B]You have so many other shared traits with Moe[/B]. I would think this is a great approach for you. Your instructor obviously found something that you could relate to.

More of the same Larry, LOL.[/quote]
hey MOE!!
[ATTACH]2190[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Larryrsf] I drilled my 2i against the wind 200 yards Sunday, that was fun. My playing partner didn't even know I had one. He tried to hit 5w the same distance and the wind nearly blew it back to his feet!

Larry[/QUOTE]

Jesus H Christ, Laurie is actually OMEN

You heard it here first

Edgey

Larry, looks like your clubhead is parallel with the ground at the top of your swing. Shouldn't the toe be pointing at the ground at that point? I would think you would tend to pull/yank a lot of shots with that set up.

[QUOTE=noshuz]hey MOE!!
[ATTACH]2190[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
haha, hilarious shite or i am just baked.

Everyone needs to tell Alan Baker that he appears to be an obsessed nutcase. Even 100 such posts won't stop him, but at least we will have him pegged. I just see a post is from him and skip it.

Larry

[QUOTE=KoolCat]Larry, looks like your clubhead is parallel with the ground at the top of your swing. Shouldn't the toe be pointing at the ground at that point? I would think you would tend to pull/yank a lot of shots with that set up.[/QUOTE]

I see that too. But amazingly the ball went straight. That was among the first swings after a major change- Long since then I have worked to open the clubface at address and let it open as I backswing---the points down range on top. Closing at address and during the backswing is a typical defensive thing that those who swing OTT do. They know they're going to slice, so they do that to compensate. It is a LOT more fun to address the ball with the clubface a little open and stance slightly open too-- then hit it straight. That requires a correct downswing sequence, that back elbow MUST come down "behind" your back hip in order to bring the clubhead to the ball from the inside.

The best way to feel it is to hit balls with a wedge in your dominant hand only. Hit them only a few yards, but notice what your body will automatically do. You will tilt your shoulders correctly and your hips MUST lead your swing if you keep the clubhead down through impact. Your back elbow must lead your hand as you swing through. That is right out of Hogan's "5 Lessons" as he dscribes the role of the right hand (for righties) in the golf swing. Often on the course while waiting to hit, I make a few such swings to remind my subconscious what it should do.

Larry

.

The best way to feel it is to hit balls with a wedge in your dominant hand only. Hit them only a few yards, but notice what your body will automatically do. You will tilt your shoulders correctly and your hips MUST lead your swing if you keep the clubhead down through impact. Your back elbow must lead your hand as you swing through. That is right out of Hogan's "5 Lessons" as he dscribes the role of the right hand (for righties) in the golf swing. Often on the course while waiting to hit, I make a few such swings to remind my subconscious what it should do.

Larry[/quote]

Thats an interesting thought ... I'll have to mull that over.
"what would Wiggles do?"

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Everyone needs to tell Alan Baker that he appears to be an obsessed nutcase. Even 100 such posts won't stop him, but at least we will have him pegged. I just see a post is from him and skip it. [/QUOTE]

Except for replying with this, right Larry? You never miss a chance to call someone a nutcase...

...unless it's to their face. :)

But I'm just trying to give the folks some context.

Did you or did you not say that trying to control the club with your dominant hand was completely wrong? Yes or no.

Did you or did you not already claim to be hitting "all the fairways and most of the greens"? Yes or no.

Did you not just the other day claim to be a 7 handicap? Yes or no.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I see that too. But amazingly the ball went straight. That was among the first swings after a major change- Long since then I have worked to open the clubface at address and let it open as I backswing---the points down range on top. Closing at address and during the backswing is a typical defensive thing that those who swing OTT do. They know they're going to slice, so they do that to compensate. It is a LOT more fun to address the ball with the clubface a little open and stance slightly open too-- then hit it straight. That requires a correct downswing sequence, that back elbow MUST come down "behind" your back hip in order to bring the clubhead to the ball from the inside.

The best way to feel it is to hit balls with a wedge in your dominant hand only. Hit them only a few yards, but notice what your body will automatically do. You will tilt your shoulders correctly and your hips MUST lead your swing if you keep the clubhead down through impact. Your back elbow must lead your hand as you swing through. That is right out of Hogan's "5 Lessons" as he dscribes the role of the right hand (for righties) in the golf swing. Often on the course while waiting to hit, I make a few such swings to remind my subconscious what it should do.[/QUOTE]

Funny...

This advice to swing with the dominant hand is in direct contradiction of your earlier advice that the best way was to use your lead hand...

[QUOTE=Regulation Guy].

The best way to feel it is to hit balls with a wedge in your dominant hand only.

I believe this works because you can't let your right elbow fly. The key to a lot of early books before Nicklaus anyways..

[quote=Donald Jackson][quote=Regulation Guy].

The best way to feel it is to hit balls with a wedge in your dominant hand only.

I believe this works because you can't let your right elbow fly. The key to a lot of early books before Nicklaus anyways..[/quote]

I was quoting larry, and can't claim the credit. Plus, I haven't confirmed that this actually works. One the plus side, if you only use the dominant hand, you can use the other to hold your beer !

[QUOTE=alangbaker]Funny...

This advice to swing with the dominant hand is in direct contradiction of your earlier advice that the best way was to use your lead hand...[/QUOTE]
Every golfer knows that the teachings of golf are all contradictory in many ways. Both peices of advise I believe are true, the lead hand leads and the right elbow stays in which you can feel by just swinging with the right hand only.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Since then (last November) I have been working on this and playing pretty good.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNAayis190[/url]

This teacher is Scott Mahlberg, top 25 in the nation, former touring pro, and one of the best in the San Diego area. Stadium Golf. Look him up.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Larry, get ahold of yourself! You're pathologically lying again. Take another pill.

Your handicap went up 17 strokes in one month. That isn't playing very well.

If Scot Mahlberg is on a top 25 list, it would have to be top 25 instructors to teach at his driving range. Show us a list where he's in the top 25. Show us a list where he's in the top 100. Maybe I just missed it.

Larry, you need to start prefacing your outright lies with: "This is an outright lie".

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Larry, get ahold of yourself! You're pathologically lying again. Take another pill.

Your handicap went up 17 strokes in one month. That isn't playing very well.

If Scot Mahlberg is on a top 25 list, it would have to be top 25 instructors to teach at his driving range. Show us a list where he's in the top 25. Show us a list where he's in the top 100. Maybe I just missed it.

Larry, you need to start prefacing your outright lies with: "This is an outright lie".[/QUOTE]

He isn't even in the top 25 in California...

He used to be in Golf Digest's top 50 in California...

...but that was back in 2005.

[QUOTE=alangbaker]He isn't even in the top 25 in California...

He used to be in Golf Digest's top 50 in California...

...but that was back in 2005.[/QUOTE]

Mahlberg was my first instructor and my worst instructor.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Larry, get ahold of yourself! You're pathologically lying again. Take another pill.

Your handicap went up 17 strokes in one month. That isn't playing very well.

If Scot Mahlberg is on a top 25 list, it would have to be top 25 instructors to teach at his driving range. Show us a list where he's in the top 25. Show us a list where he's in the top 100. Maybe I just missed it.

Larry, you need to start prefacing your outright lies with: "This is an outright lie".[/QUOTE]
Damb he looks like the wicked witch of the east but he is legit apparently. (Mr. Mahlberg)

[QUOTE=alangbaker]He isn't even in the top 25 in California...

He used to be in Golf Digest's top 50 in California...

...but that was back in 2005.[/QUOTE]
naaaaa dorothy!

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]Every golfer knows that the teachings of golf are all contradictory in many ways. Both peices of advise I believe are true, the lead hand leads and the right elbow stays in which you can feel by just swinging with the right hand only.[/QUOTE]

I agree that different people need different advice.

Ole Larry went to a totally different place. He declared that anyone who tried to swing with his dominant hand was absolutely positively doomed to come OTT.

I tried to tell him at the time that what is a problem for one person may not be for someone else, because there are stages to learning the swing, but he just got insulting.

<sigh>

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Mahlberg was my first instructor and my worst instructor.[/QUOTE]

Not to worry: Larry's endorsement of Mr. Mahlberg will only last until he becomes the latest in a long line of instructors that Larry has failed to learn from.

Then we'll hear that it isn't important that your instructor played on tour. Larry will declare tht what's important is that your instructor has had the latest instruction on how to teach the swing...

...or that he's been teaching for a long time...

...or that he uses video...

...or that he doesn't use video.

I'm not making this stuff up, BTW. These are all actual positions adopted by Larry in the past.

The only constant in all of them is that whichever instructor Larry is currently seeing is the best the world has ever seen! :)

[QUOTE=alangbaker]Not to worry: Larry's endorsement of Mr. Mahlberg will only last until he becomes the latest in a long line of instructors that Larry has failed to learn from.

Then we'll hear that it isn't important that your instructor played on tour. Larry will declare tht what's important is that your instructor has had the latest instruction on how to teach the swing...

...or that he's been teaching for a long time...

...or that he uses video...

...or that he doesn't use video.

I'm not making this stuff up, BTW. These are all actual positions adopted by Larry in the past.

The only constant in all of them is that whichever instructor Larry is currently seeing is the best the world has ever seen! :)[/QUOTE]

I have a friend who likes to say the last crap he took was the best ever. I guess they have alot in common.

[quote=lorenzoinoc]I have a friend who likes to say the last crap he took was the best ever. I guess they have alot in common.[/quote]

Humble men walk with their heads bowed.
When death is present the wise are absent.
Live each day to the fullest and stay in the present.
Play one swing at a time.
Love the one you're with.

'Course its the best one ever... previous craps are nothnig more than illusions and memories

I saw a lot of post from Alan Baker, didn't bother looking at any of them. Did anyone? Why would you listen to a nutcase rave?

Lary

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I saw a lot of post from Alan Baker, didn't bother looking at any of them. Did anyone? Why would you listen to a nutcase rave?[/quote]

"a lot of [I]post[/I]", Larry? It seems to me that I know someone who immediately throws around insults about people's education whenever someone makes a typo.

Can you think who that might be? :)

[quote]Lary[/QUOTE]

"Lary"?

LOL

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I saw a lot of post from Alan Baker, didn't bother looking at any of them. Did anyone? Why would you listen to a nutcase rave?

Lary[/QUOTE]

Lary - When did you change the spelling of your name? I agree, two r-s are superfluous.

By the way, careful how you cast your net. If noone listens to the rantings of a nutcase, you could be out of business.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Lary - When did you change the spelling of your name? I agree, two r-s are superfluous.

By the way, careful how you cast your net. If noone listens to the rantings of a nutcase, you could be out of business.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The use of only one r gives the name a certain style and panache that the regular old double r just can't replicate. Thumbs up Lary.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I just play the course on weekends. As I play I work to incorporate what seems to work better--and for me a big change in every golf shot a few months ago was is to make my dominant left hand control the club. I putt with my left totally in charge of the putter. I do the same with driver and long clubs, even making a few left hand only practice swings before taking my stance, to feel my lefty in charge of the club. It works--

I have been consistently hitting more fairways and GIR than ever. I drilled my 2i against the wind 200 yards Sunday, that was fun. My playing partner didn't even know I had one. He tried to hit 5w the same distance and the wind nearly blew it back to his feet!

Larry[/QUOTE]

Larry, for once I agree with you, the golf swing is different for everybody and everyone needs to find their own "niche" so to speak. For me, it is making sure I keep my left arm and elbow straight on the backswing and don't let my right elbow fly out like a chicken wing. If I do this, I have a nice crisp downswing that takes a divot and sends the ball flying straight at the target with a medium ball flight.

It is exciting to find something that allows you to experience success in the game of golf and and I congratulate you.

Now, if you could only solve my putting woes, I would give you enough respect to be considered Legend status on GR . . . . . . .

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]Larry, for once I agree with you, the golf swing is different for everybody and everyone needs to find their own "niche" so to speak. For me, it is making sure I keep my left arm and elbow straight on the backswing and don't let my right elbow fly out like a chicken wing. If I do this, I have a nice crisp downswing that takes a divot and sends the ball flying straight at the target with a medium ball flight.[/quote]

I'm sorry, but Larry is the absolute antithesis of 'everyone needs to find their own "niche" '. Larry believes that whatever his instructor is telling him he needs is what everyone must need.

And to extrapolate, whatever Moe Norman needs Larry needs too.

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]Larry, for once I agree with you, the golf swing is different for everybody and everyone needs to find their own "niche" so to speak. For me, it is making sure I keep my left arm and elbow straight on the backswing and don't let my right elbow fly out like a chicken wing. If I do this, I have a nice crisp downswing that takes a divot and sends the ball flying straight at the target with a medium ball flight..[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgi00O7kkI&NR=1[/url]

Here is an older pro-- likely well over 80, demonstrating the essence of the golf swing in slow motion--and then hitting balls. I would bet he breaks par on any course anywhere. Any of us should aspire to be doing that well at his age!

He shows that the important thing in the swing is to tilt the torso and shoulders away from the target to enable us to bring the club "down and under" to the ball--like "driving a wedge under a door." He is demonstrating what Hogan did, that in order to do that we must start with hips (not shoulders or arms) and then let the hips turning toward the target bring the arms down. Pretty to watch.

Larry

Hate to burst your bubble Lary, but that guy isn't swinging in slow motion. It's just how all 80 year old guys with osteo arthritis, plastic hip and knee joints, and no cartilage, swing the golf club.

[B]disclaimer: I didn't watch the video but was making an assumption of the content based on Larry's credibility on this board[/B]

P.S. Why have you gone back to 2 r-s?

Larry,I noticed on the rt side video you lifted the heel of your left foot,which for a lefty would be his trailing foot,if you wouldn't mind reminding me of the foot planting during impact again,good swing thu,does Alan have a scramp book of all your post.Time to get over it Alan,making yourself look very petty.The best swing advise that has worked for me was turning my shoulder and planting it under my chin for a complete turn and straightening my leftarm--rt handed...take care dano.