Irons don't affect score that much

I've tried a lot of different irons over the years and my scores really don't seem to depend too much over which iron I've used on any particular day. From what I've read on this forum it appears that most people favor a blade over a cb (or shovel, as you say). Shafts aside, I don't think the head itself makes much difference. My three lowest scores (all 67 on a par 72 course) were all with Wilson FG-17 irons but if I look back on those rounds it was all putting, chipping and pitching that made the difference. I think when you are on your game then blades are better but over time I think cb's will keep your average scores lower.

On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.

I will say this, blades are much better for chipping. Since chipping is such a key toward good scores, maybe I should play blades in the 6-PW and cavities in the 2-5 irons. Is this fantasy to find the perfect iron set really an addiction? Are we really fooling ourselves into believing that the right set of irons will change our scores? The new Mizuno blade (MP-58 or MP-69 or whatever) looks exactly to me like the MP 29. I think we have fallen for the marketing and can't accept the fact that it makes no difference. I have said my piece, and I am the greatest iron player that ever lived.

true. come to think of it, getting a correct swing won't also affect score much. looking at some retired old farts, i witness scoring without swinging. do we ever need golf lessons?

[QUOTE=famousdavis][IMG]http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/images/p-jokes/toilet/cat-crap-big.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


You insist on learning the hard way, don't you?

Looks to me like you're having a little trouble digesting all that OEM marketing hype. At least you've got a bag full of the appropriate tools to clean it up with, once you're awake.

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Yk1QF9rV-h0/RzNjUs5YIyI/AAAAAAAAAHo/LQkG4iGtODU/s320/Shovels_jpg.jpg[/IMG]



FON

[QUOTE=FreakOfNature]You insist on learning the hard way, don't you?

Looks to me like you're having a little trouble digesting all that OEM marketing hype. At least you've got a bag full of the appropriate tools to clean it up with, once you're awake.

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Yk1QF9rV-h0/RzNjUs5YIyI/AAAAAAAAAHo/LQkG4iGtODU/s320/Shovels_jpg.jpg[/IMG]



FON[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the photos of yourself and the four marital aids. You're really good at cutting and pasting.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]Thanks for the photos of yourself and the four marital aids. You're really good at cutting and pasting.[/QUOTE]


Actually, I was just trying to communicate on your level. You seemed like the type who would relate better to pictures than words.



FON

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I've tried a lot of different irons over the years and my scores really don't seem to depend too much over which iron I've used on any particular day. From what I've read on this forum it appears that most people favor a blade over a cb (or shovel, as you say). Shafts aside, I don't think the head itself makes much difference. My three lowest scores (all 67 on a par 72 course) were all with Wilson FG-17 irons but if I look back on those rounds it was all putting, chipping and pitching that made the difference. I think when you are on your game then blades are better but over time I think cb's will keep your average scores lower.

On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.

I will say this, blades are much better for chipping. Since chipping is such a key toward good scores, maybe I should play blades in the 6-PW and cavities in the 2-5 irons. Is this fantasy to find the perfect iron set really an addiction? Are we really fooling ourselves into believing that the right set of irons will change our scores? The new Mizuno blade (MP-58 or MP-69 or whatever) looks exactly to me like the MP 29. I think we have fallen for the marketing and can't accept the fact that it makes no difference. I have said my piece, and I am the greatest iron player that ever lived.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this post and think you are essentially correct.
You are suffering under one missapprehension though. Cb's and especially forged blade style cb's are not called shovels on here, or derided. In fact many fair-minded good players prefer a players cb for the little extre forgivness they offer. It is the many and varied so called GAME IMPROVEMENT irons that are called shovels, and are rightly ridiculed for the crap they are. Anything with a large offset and thick topline, which unfortunately your irons fall into the catagory of, are rightly reserved for perverted hackers who are conned into the whole game improvement fallacy.
I also have played many different types of irons and while I agree that having a well suited iron is only part of scoring well I believe the traditional design of iron configeration is still the best for the serious player. Mp 29's are one of my favorite irons but I would say that aside from the loft differences they are the same, and perhaps better than the new mizzy blades.
If most are honest about it you are correct in saying that short game and putting has more to do with a good score than iron play, but it is not black and white. Course managment and playing to your strengths are also important ingredients in playing well.

My only question to you is, after making what after all is an intelligent post with valid points, do you spoil it all by claiming that you are the best iron player that ever lived? Clearly this is bullsh!t in what other wise is a worthwhile post. Were you getting too serious so you had to put this crap on the end, or what. What gives FD?

[QUOTE=oldplayer]
My only question to you is, after making what after all is an intelligent post with valid points, do you spoil it all by claiming that you are the best iron player that ever lived? Clearly this is bullsh!t in what other wise is a worthwhile post. Were you getting too serious so you had to put this crap on the end, or what. What gives FD?[/QUOTE]

Anybody who claims that is clearly a chopper/hacker/duffer.

i agree here op, the content of his actual thread is pretty accurate, but it wouldnt be GR without the iron twist at the end,,,,


Thats how we roll....

[quote=famousdavis] Shafts aside, I don't think the head itself makes much difference.[/quote]

You and Lary ought to get together build a custom set of clubs. Heck you wouldn't need a shaft or a head!

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I've tried a lot of different irons over the years and my scores really don't seem to depend too much over which iron I've used on any particular day. From what I've read on this forum it appears that most people favor a blade over a cb (or shovel, as you say). Shafts aside, I don't think the head itself makes much difference. My three lowest scores [B](all 67[/B] on a par 72 course) were all with Wilson FG-17 irons but if I look back on those rounds it was all putting, chipping and pitching that made the difference. I think when you are on your game then blades are better but over time I think cb's will keep your average scores lower.

On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.

I will say this, blades are much better for chipping. Since chipping is such a key toward good scores, maybe I should play blades in the 6-PW and cavities in the 2-5 irons. Is this fantasy to find the perfect iron set really an addiction? Are we really fooling ourselves into believing that the right set of irons will change our scores? The new Mizuno blade (MP-58 or MP-69 or whatever) looks exactly to me like the MP 29. I think we have fallen for the marketing and can't accept the fact that it makes no difference. I have said my piece, and I am the greatest iron player that ever lived.[/QUOTE]

I see you bringing up the number, 67, quite a bit in your threads, FD. Being skilled in the ways of the human mind and tendencies, I can say with all confidence that you have within your possession, or you are coveting, a set of MP-67s. I don't blame you for this, I have a set myself that I play regularly. It's time to come out of the closet and admit to GFF perfection. Your mind will feel cleansed and your soul will be purged of the guilt you carry around. I know your friends all play PING and Callaway and you want to be accepted by them, but it's OK to step and play the greatness that is known as Mizuno! The world cheers you on, FD . . . . . .

[img]http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/heroes-smileys-64589/redcarpet.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=oldplayer]I agree with this post and think you are essentially correct.
You are suffering under one missapprehension though. Cb's and especially forged blade style cb's are not called shovels on here, or derided. In fact many fair-minded good players prefer a players cb for the little extre forgivness they offer. It is the many and varied so called GAME IMPROVEMENT irons that are called shovels, and are rightly ridiculed for the crap they are. Anything with a large offset and thick topline, which unfortunately your irons fall into the catagory of, are rightly reserved for perverted hackers who are conned into the whole game improvement fallacy.
I also have played many different types of irons and while I agree that having a well suited iron is only part of scoring well I believe the traditional design of iron configeration is still the best for the serious player. Mp 29's are one of my favorite irons but I would say that aside from the loft differences they are the same, and perhaps better than the new mizzy blades.
If most are honest about it you are correct in saying that short game and putting has more to do with a good score than iron play, but it is not black and white. Course managment and playing to your strengths are also important ingredients in playing well.

My only question to you is, after making what after all is an intelligent post with valid points, do you spoil it all by claiming that you are the best iron player that ever lived? Clearly this is bullsh!t in what other wise is a worthwhile post. Were you getting too serious so you had to put this crap on the end, or what. What gives FD?[/QUOTE]

What gives? It's called light-hearted humor. Do you actually believe that I think I'm the best iron player that ever lived. I could understand if I said something like "I'm the best iron player in my group". Come on.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]What gives? It's called light-hearted humor. Do you actually believe that I think I'm the best iron player that ever lived. I could understand if I said something like "I'm the best iron player in my group". Come on.[/QUOTE]
FD, stepping out of character is a b!tchmove.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]What gives? It's called light-hearted humor. Do you actually believe that I think I'm the best iron player that ever lived. I could understand if I said something like "I'm the best iron player in my group". Come on.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I didn't get your humor. So all your posting up to this thread has been your attempt at humor has it? Yeah i guess it's funny although the arrogant, know it all, golf god persona has been done to death on GR.
Don't worry about HB, go with the intelligent and well thought out persona. It's a better look here, when d!ckheads are a dime a dozen.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Sorry I didn't get your humor. So all your posting up to this thread has been your attempt at humor has it? Yeah i guess it's funny although the arrogant, know it all, golf god persona has been done to death on GR.
Don't worry about HB, go with the intelligent and well thought out persona. It's a better look here, when d!ckheads are a dime a dozen.[/QUOTE]

I think the astronaut persona is still available.

[quote=lorenzoinoc]I think the astronaut persona is still available.[/quote]

I always wanted to be an astronaut! Can I take that one?
.....I'll change my name to Major Tom......

Nice post FD, although the point OP makes about playing to your strength's is probably more valid as for each player its a different story on which part of their game is crucial or not.

On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.


The opposite has been my case, my irons shots have saved my arse lately. 3 times this week I played Mystic hills a dye design, tough greens, lots of undulation, tough pin locations, every shot relied on deadly iron approach shots. I aint braggin, but one shot I made was a 191yard par 3 pin tucked in back right 5 iron within 5 feet for birdie, my partner got a 5 brutal hole on misses right. Point being well struck iron approaches score huge, or simply put, those days when you rattle the flag all day, with GFF Lovin mmm

[QUOTE=12sandwich]On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.


The opposite has been my case, my irons shots have saved my arse lately. 3 times this week I played Mystic hills a dye design, tough greens, lots of undulation, tough pin locations, every shot relied on deadly iron approach shots. I aint braggin, but one shot I made was a 191yard par 3 pin tucked in back right 5 iron within 5 feet for birdie, my partner got a 5 brutal hole on misses right. Point being well struck iron approaches score huge, or simply put, those days when you rattle the flag all day, with GFF Lovin mmm[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. If your iron play is sharp you will either be hitting GIR or getting close enough that getting up and down is likely. If you are spraying your iron approaches wide of the target getting up and down to save par is less and less likely. Also if you are having a day when your irons are pin seeking then birdie opportunities will present themselves as opposed to just finding the middle of the green and needing two putts for par all day.

Chipping and putting is important too of course but more so on days when your iron play is off.

[QUOTE=12sandwich]On the other hand, when I look back on a solid round the keys to the good score were my driving, putting and chipping. I don't think I've ever had a great round that I could attribute to great iron play. I guess that's why I've always played Ping Eye 2 irons, for no other reason than the fact that I'm comfortable with the consistent distance they provide.


A good friend and a mentor of sorts, I was 11 when I met mike, just back from vietnam hittting balls in his dads backyard, a hard swinger, that hit his irons strong, I asked if he would help me with a swing, and said after several minutes of hitting balls, your a natural, and proceeded to shank one, and hit him in, I think the nuts. needless to say he dropped to the ground, and moaned, and came out of it, a minute or two later. He plays ping eye 2s for years now and hits em good. But I wear him out on accuracy with forged players, slight cavity back GFF. IT HELPS, CAUSE MY CHIPPING THIS YEAR SUCKED HARD!

[QUOTE=noshuz]You and Lary ought to get together build a custom set of clubs. Heck you wouldn't need a shaft or a head![/QUOTE]

Just the grip...

I have to agree with Sandwich and OP on this one, if you're hitting sh itty or even mediocre irons there is no way you will get a good score. It's about GIR or if not GIR at least your left with a short wedge off the green. I mean putting is a no brainer but if you struggling on your irons, I mean f uck, putting is the least of your worries. To say that your irons don't really matter is just plain stupid

Although all of my really low rounds over the years have obviously included good chipping and putting, the number of greens I hit usually has a direct effect on my score. How many GIR you hit is important to your scoring, and how many GIR you hit is a direct result of how well you hit your irons. So FD might be right in saying the days you chip and putt great are the times you go really low, but generally saying that your iron play doesn't matter is illogical.

For me, all my good rounds come from great driving. Great driving for me doesn't mean a bunch of fairways, it means well hit shots that leave an open second shot. Irons are usually not terrible, and if I have an open look at the green with good distance off the tee, I'm probably hitting it on or close.
My home course is about 6750-6800 yards from the tips, so with only a few exceptions, a good drive leaves me no more than 9 or wedge with all the par 5's reachable.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]For me, all my good rounds come from great driving. Great driving for me doesn't mean a bunch of fairways, it means well hit shots that leave an open second shot. Irons are usually not terrible, and if I have an open look at the green with good distance off the tee, I'm probably hitting it on or close.
[B]My home course is about 6750-6800 yards from the tips, so with only a few exceptions, a good drive leaves me no more than 9 or wedge with all the par 5's reachable[/B].[/QUOTE]
Farkin short knockers hacker track.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Farkin short knockers hacker track.[/QUOTE]
Now where did I put that Irony thread?

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Now where did I put that Irony thread?[/QUOTE]

Since you're only dealing with 6,800 yards, it shouldn't be hard to find it.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Now where did I put that Irony thread?[/QUOTE]

In the same place as the "arrogant, smug twat" thread?

;-)

Edgey

[QUOTE=edgey]In the same place as the "arrogant, smug twat" thread?

;-)

Edgey[/QUOTE]
That's the first place I looked. It wasn't there.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]That's the first place I looked. It wasn't there.[/QUOTE]

Your looking in the wrong place HB, try under Omen2 or FamousDavies.

Hope that helps

Edgey

"...and I am the greatest iron player that ever lived...." Quoted by FD

Interesting quote by FD, just reminds me of the Oriental wisdom "EMPTY drum makes the loudest noise..."

OK, back to "Irons don't affect scores that much..." I would rather nail the greens from 150 yds out EVERYTIME with the perfect irons , and that affects my scores A LOT

I have little problem "nailing greens" when I'm driving well. My driver is the bane of my poor rounds. Sometimes putts don't fall but that usually only affects a few strokes a round. If I'm driving terrible then I either have penalty strokes or putting pressure on my approach shots by having to play out of the rough or work the ball. If I'm driving well it's usually a 9 iron or less in on the majority of the par 4's.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Now where did I put that Irony thread?[/QUOTE]
It's not lost on me HB, but I've never been one to subscribe to the 'people in glass houses' theory.

BTW, at only 6800 yards, would that make it about a par 68 or something?

[QUOTE=Horseballs]For me, all my good rounds come from great driving. Great driving for me doesn't mean a bunch of fairways, it means well hit shots that leave an open second shot. Irons are usually not terrible, and if I have an open look at the green with good distance off the tee, I'm probably hitting it on or close.
My home course is about 6750-6800 yards from the tips, so with only a few exceptions, a good drive leaves me no more than 9 or wedge with all the par 5's reachable.[/QUOTE]

If you don't scoop the ball, u won't need the 9 or wedge. i was once there.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]It's not lost on me HB, but I've never been one to subscribe to the 'people in glass houses' theory.

BTW, at only 6800 yards, would that make it about a par 68 or something?[/QUOTE]
No it's a 72. It will be 100 years old in 2010 and was designed by legend Donald Ross. It was probably long as hell when it first opened. The 6800 is a bit misleading because there are several dogleg holes with no legitimate short cuts, not that people don't try. The par 5's are an absolute joke though.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]It's not lost on me HB, but I've never been one to subscribe to the 'people in glass houses' theory.

BTW, at only 6800 yards, would that make it about a par 68 or something?[/QUOTE]

For someone who has been playing on a goatrack this post is indeed ironic

Edgey

[QUOTE=Horseballs]No it's a 72. It will be 100 years old in 2010 and was designed by legend Donald Ross. It was probably long as hell when it first opened. The 6800 is a bit misleading because there are several dogleg holes with no legitimate short cuts, not that people don't try. The par 5's are an absolute joke though.[/QUOTE]
Par 72 at only 6,800 yards? I wouldn't be expecting any PGA tour stops there any time soon.

But seriously, Donald Ross designed some great courses. I think right there is the reason for your stupid prices. His name would almost add a decimal place to your subs.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Par 72 at only 6,800 yards? I wouldn't be expecting any PGA tour stops there any time soon.

But seriously, Donald Ross designed some great courses. I think right there is the reason for your stupid prices. His name would almost add a decimal place to your subs.[/QUOTE]
We annually host first round qualifying for the US Open and it's played at 72. I would figure that the USGA would make it a 70 or 71, but they don't. Hell, I'm hitting iron into all the 5's if I hit good drives. No one is ever lighting up the SPCC, and I've seen several scores in the mid/high 80's. You can put yourself in some terrible situations on the greens if you don't know the course well.
Unfortunately, subs at the SPCC are the norm for full-service clubs in my area.
Isn't your POS club par 69 at 6000 yards? The SPCC is a monster compared to that.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]We annually host first round qualifying for the US Open and it's played at 72. I would figure that the USGA would make it a 70 or 71, but they don't. Hell, I'm hitting iron into all the 5's if I hit good drives. No one is ever lighting up the SPCC, and I've seen several scores in the mid/high 80's. You can put yourself in some terrible situations on the greens if you don't know the course well.
Unfortunately, subs at the SPCC are the norm for full-service clubs in my area.
[B]Isn't your POS club par 69 at 6000 yards? The SPCC is a monster compared to that.[/[/B]QUOTE]
That's true, but my subs are probably lower than your monthly bar tab. And it's all relative. Compared to where I play now the new course is paradise.