Distance gain senior-stiff flex

Ive been using a senior flex for the last couple of rounds while i wait for my other shafts to be cut and regriped for me. Just wondering how much distance gain i can expect from going to sinior-reg-stiff flex. any help would be great thx

what is your club head speed?

Swing speed is probably average 95. Why I'm using a senior flex is I bought a r7 with the interchangeable shafts and the pro shop got my senior shaft cut but after that one they broke the shaft cutting tool. So I stuck with the senior shaft for a few days. I'm just wondering how much extra distance I can expect on avg

You have senior flex?

You're getting senior flex?

I don't know what you're asking.

I'm using a senior flex. Waiting to get my reg shafts and stiff shaft.

You may not achieve any distance gain if the shaft is not right for you. There is a truism that you should play the softest shaft you can control. Do you hit it straight (or consistent shape) most of the time or is it all over the place?

I know forsure the senior shaft is not for me as I can only swing 80-90% only way u can hit it straight. But I have no choice right now as I don't have my other shafts.

When I swing the 80-90% it's pretty much a consistant fade but when I go for a full 100% swing it turns into a ballooning slice

[QUOTE=J-RO]Ive been using a senior flex for the last couple of rounds while i wait for my other shafts to be cut and regriped for me. Just wondering how much distance gain i can expect from going to sinior-reg-stiff flex. any help would be great thx[/QUOTE]

with anything resembling accuracy. Hard to understand why you think you would gain any distance going to a stiff shaft at that swing speed. There's nothing in your bio that gives any indication how you hit the ball normally. No handicap, no background. Sort of like asking on a medical site that is populated by non-doctors to tell you what disease you have with no information other than your screen name. Sort of impossible, but hey you want a guess? Okay I say you'll gain 10 yards with the wind, no gain with no wind and lose 10 against. ;-)

[QUOTE=fred3]with anything resembling accuracy. Hard to understand why you think you would gain any distance going to a stiff shaft at that swing speed. There's nothing in your bio that gives any indication how you hit the ball normally. No handicap, no background. [B]Sort of like asking on a medical site that is populated by non-doctors to tell you what disease you have with no information other than your screen name.[/B] Sort of impossible, but hey you want a guess? Okay I say you'll gain 10 yards with the wind, no gain with no wind and lose 10 against. ;-)[/QUOTE]

What if his username was "Syphilis?"

Basicly all I'm askin is the senior shaft is not the shaft for me. By putting on the rite shaft I will see a gain of distance rite?

You might need to make a concerted effort to both trottle back and slow your tempo down. If the shaft is way too weak, you'll have a tendency to snap hook, all else being equal.

Even if you keep the shaft under control and see 10 or 15 more yards, you'll probably notice a BIG deterioration in consistency.

I have a 98mph swing speed and find a regular works just fine for me. Some club fitters suggest that I am borderline stiff but my experience of using a stiff shaft has found me hitting balls low and right. I have tried a couple of senior shafts, just for fun, and usually go too high and left.

[QUOTE=J-RO]When I swing the 80-90% it's pretty much a consistant fade but when I go for a full 100% swing it turns into a ballooning slice[/QUOTE]
Yes, at your SS and using R-flex senior shaft then I am not surprised, your hand would be way ahead of the club head and you could not square that club face resulting in a big fade/slice. I suggest that you don't mess around with Sr flex anymore, you should play with at least R-flex, the problem nowaday is there is no universal standard to shaft's specs, i.e., some stiff graphite shafts play more like R-flex from other shaft suppliers

A couple myths need to be dispelled first...

- First off, theres no industry standard for shaft flex. A stiff flex for one company may be an R flex for another...and with some companies like Grafalloy, they have no consistency in flex designations within their own line up.

- Most companies base their claim to shaft stiffness based on the CPM reading at the butt of the shaft...that reading in no way tells the customer how the shaft will perform. To determine that, the shaft needs to be profiled with readings taken at specific beam lengths.

- OP's truism about a player should hit a shaft as soft as possible while maintaining control, is about 95% true...for a small population, there will be a point that too soft a flex, would add too much spin and DECREASE distance....just like adding too much loft at a certain point will negate the results of a good swing.

To answer the original question, no one CAN anser that without seeing your swing and knowing what shafts you are considering.

Good luck!

A flex. Otherwise known for senior flex, means amateur, hence the A flex. Are we not all amateurs?

I'm 63 and have been experimenting with shafts in various clubs for over a year. Last summer I paid $31 to my local Golf Galaxy for a "shaft fitting" that consisted of hitting various driver shafts attached to a Titleist 907D2 9.5 deg head that was the equivalent of my own driver, a 905T, according to the GG pro doing the fitting. My swing speed ranged from 90-96 and the recommendation after about 100 shots was for a VooDoo in regular flex cut down 1/2 from the butt. Of course I hated the feel of that shaft and liked the YS-6+ in regular flex I have on the 905T a lot better. Being that I am a cheap senior bast*rd, I figured that the $31 I spent on the shaft testing was about 10% or less than I would have spent on getting a $300+ shaft installed on my head. So I did a cheap experiment ordering a Maltby MPF driver shaft in senior flex and had them install it in a 983K 9.5 head. After the epoxy and grip glue had dried, I took it back to Golf Galaxy and hit it in the nets and my swing speed increased to a consistent 100-105 range. Took it to the range and found that it went left, right, balloon high, watch-out-worms and small critters low and every ugly sort of ball flight in between. Now my best driver is a 905R 9.5 with YS-6+ stiff cut to 44.5". Last time I hit it on my practice field couple of days ago, my last four drives I walked off at 290 (20 yard pull), 2 at 300 (10 yard fade) and 310 (10 foot fade). Best senior flex drives with a real good 983K head were 50 yards behind it.

[quote=J-RO]Basicly all I'm askin is the senior shaft is not the shaft for me. By putting on the rite shaft I will see a gain of distance rite?[/quote]

You can only use a senior shaft if you're over the age of 65. Most pro shops will ID you if you look under 65. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[quote=famousdavis]You can only use a senior shaft if you're over the age of 65. Most pro shops will ID you if you look under 65. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.[/quote]

Dude....

That's just not true and you should know it.

Anyone can buy the shafts and use them.

You can only get the [B]discount[/B] if you're over 65.

Don't be such a h8er.

Geez

[QUOTE=famousdavis]You can only use a senior shaft if you're over the age of 65. Most pro shops will ID you if you look under 65. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.[/QUOTE]
I thought they made concessions if they see Callaway irons or hybrids in your bag?

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I thought they made concessions if they see Callaway irons or hybrids in your bag?[/QUOTE]

Concessions? More likely they see "Sucker!" written on your forehead and charge twice the normal price as they know you will happily pay the extra $$$.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Concessions? More likely they see "Sucker!" written on your forehead and charge twice the normal price as they know you will happily pay the extra $$$.[/QUOTE]
I meant concessions on the rule banning non pensioners form senior flex shafts if they have gay clubs in the bag and it's obvious you need the extra whippy shaft. I was humouring FDs premise that senior shafts are strictly for over 65 old codgers and are banned from normal play.

Since you're expending less energy swinging a senior flex club shouldn't you get some kind of tax rebate? I wonder if they come with the Energy Star label?

[QUOTE=J-RO]Ive been using a senior flex for the last couple of rounds while i wait for my other shafts to be cut and regriped for me. Just wondering how much distance gain i can expect from going to sinior-reg-stiff flex. any help would be great thx[/QUOTE]

Should make no difference at all. Basically you want a shaft that is lighter in weight so the clubhead can be heavier in relationship to the remainder of the club. Ideally there would be zero weight in shaft and handle and ALL the weight in the clubhead. That is the only place that kinetic energy is stored for transfer to the ball.

My wife swings a man's Cobra driver with senior shaft-- not for the flex, but because that is the lightest shaft. She has had ONE lesson. She plays only monthly, never practices. On the course she sets up with extremely relaxed arms, very relaxed grip pressure, makes a big smooth turn, and just rips it. She hits them straight because she swings the clubhead centrifugally, letting it align itself automatically. That is fun to watch. The LAST thing I would do is let her take a lesson and fill her head with distracting details.. that would inevitably add tension. Tension ruins more golf swings than every other factor combined. Conversely, a very relaxed grip and arms and full smooth turn automatically puts the club on plane-- and makes the footwork automatic too. She just does naturally what it took me years to learn-- because I started with too much attention to mechanical details--and suffered from too much tension.

Amateur men can learn FAR more from watching women than men pros.

Larry

[quote=Larryrsf][b]Should make no difference at all. Basically you want a shaft that is lighter in weight so the clubhead can be heavier in relationship to the remainder of the club. Ideally there would be zero weight in shaft and handle and ALL the weight in the clubhead. That is the only place that kinetic energy is stored for transfer to the ball.[/b]

My wife swings a man's Cobra driver with senior shaft-- not for the flex, but because that is the lightest shaft. She has had ONE lesson. She plays only monthly, never practices. On the course she sets up with extremely relaxed arms, very relaxed grip pressure, makes a big smooth turn, and just rips it. She hits them straight because she swings the clubhead centrifugally, letting it align itself automatically. That is fun to watch. The LAST thing I would do is let her take a lesson and fill her head with distracting details.. that would inevitably add tension. Tension ruins more golf swings than every other factor combined. Conversely, a very relaxed grip and arms and full smooth turn automatically puts the club on plane-- and makes the footwork automatic too. She just does naturally what it took me years to learn-- because I started with too much attention to mechanical details--and suffered from too much tension.

Amateur men can learn FAR more from watching women than men pros.

Larry[/quote]

That right there is a whole lot of incorrect information for just a few sentences.

Shaft flex makes a HUGE difference in how a club performs for any given person. To say that it simply all boils down to weight is not only wrong, it's extraordinarily misguided. While it is true that there is no "standard" for shaft flex, that doesn't mean that there is no difference between a weak shaft and a firm shaft. Far from it. Why do you think there are 3-5 flexes in the same weight class for any given shaft? Take a YS 6+ for example. It's in the 65ish gram weight class, yet it can be had in regular to X-stiff all within that weight class.

The whole "zero weight in the shaft" thing is straight out of a high school physics book from the chapter about rotational velocity and angular acceleration. It doesn't apply to golf shafts other than in over simplifying a concept so a 17 year old can apply math to figure out a homework problem.

Kinetic energy cannot be stored. That's "potential energy". Aside from that nuance, yes,there is energy in the shaft during a golf swing. When they talk about a shaft "loading", they are referring to that energy. It's potential BTW. It becomes kinetic when it unloads.

If you put a men's ultra light, X-stiff shaft in your wife's Cobra, I guarantee that she'll lose distance.

Wanna talk about coefficient of restitution next?

[QUOTE=Jeff_h]That right there is a whole lot of incorrect information for just a few sentences.

Shaft flex makes a HUGE difference in how a club performs for any given person. To say that it simply all boils down to weight is not only wrong, it's extraordinarily misguided. While it is true that there is no "standard" for shaft flex, that doesn't mean that there is no difference between a weak shaft and a firm shaft. Far from it. Why do you think there are 3-5 flexes in the same weight class for any given shaft? Take a YS 6+ for example. It's in the 65ish gram weight class, yet it can be had in regular to X-stiff all within that weight class.

The whole "zero weight in the shaft" thing is straight out of a high school physics book from the chapter about rotational velocity and angular acceleration. It doesn't apply to golf shafts other than in over simplifying a concept so a 17 year old can apply math to figure out a homework problem.

Kinetic energy cannot be stored. That's "potential energy". Aside from that nuance, yes,there is energy in the shaft during a golf swing. When they talk about a shaft "loading", they are referring to that energy. It's potential BTW. It becomes kinetic when it unloads.

If you put a men's ultra light, X-stiff shaft in your wife's Cobra, I guarantee that she'll lose distance.

Wanna talk about coefficient of restitution next?[/QUOTE]

Once again Jeff you are showing how long you have been away from GR. LarryRSF established beyond doubt, quite some time ago, that the shaft doesn't matter. We all just need to swing centrifugally and would be just as well served with a length of pipe from the garden hose.

[QUOTE=Jeff_h]That right there is a whole lot of incorrect information for just a few sentences.

Shaft flex makes a HUGE difference in how a club performs for any given person. To say that it simply all boils down to weight is not only wrong, it's extraordinarily misguided. While it is true that there is no "standard" for shaft flex, that doesn't mean that there is no difference between a weak shaft and a firm shaft. Far from it. Why do you think there are 3-5 flexes in the same weight class for any given shaft? Take a YS 6+ for example. It's in the 65ish gram weight class, yet it can be had in regular to X-stiff all within that weight class.

The whole "zero weight in the shaft" thing is straight out of a high school physics book from the chapter about rotational velocity and angular acceleration. It doesn't apply to golf shafts other than in over simplifying a concept so a 17 year old can apply math to figure out a homework problem.

Kinetic energy cannot be stored. That's "potential energy". Aside from that nuance, yes,there is energy in the shaft during a golf swing. When they talk about a shaft "loading", they are referring to that energy. It's potential BTW. It becomes kinetic when it unloads.

If you put a men's ultra light, X-stiff shaft in your wife's Cobra, I guarantee that she'll lose distance.

Wanna talk about coefficient of restitution next?[/QUOTE]

Wow! So you deny that the Whippy clubs exist and that golfers with a good swing can hit balls to a target almost as accurately with those as with regular woods or irons? Go to the [url]http://www.tempomaster.com[/url] web site and watch the demo videos. Dr. Melvin has proven conclusively that the shaft flex characteristics are meaningless-- IF the golfer swings the clubhead centrifugally-- which is the way they are designed and weighted.

You would also need to deny that 100 years of golf club evolution has been meaningless-- or unexplainable. How on Earth did Bobby Jones and his whole generation hit them straight and long with tiny forged blades on wooden shafts?

My wife and nearly all women SWING the clubhead like it is weight on a string. (as Bobby Jones did). They DO NOT use leverage from the handle-- and thus they throw the clubhead at the ball on plane and accelerating. They do what we should do.

Bobby Jones did NOT "load" or bend the shaft of his clubs--therefore the flex characteristics are meaningless. We should not bend the shaft either-- which is the reason the GolfLabs golf club testing machine has a free swivel "wrist." It is impossible for it to exert leverage on the club handle.

[url]http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html[/url]

Larry

[quote=Larryrsf]Wow! So you deny that the Whippy clubs exist and that golfers with a good swing can hit balls to a target almost as accurately with those as with regular woods or irons? Go to the [URL="http://www.tempomaster.com"]http://www.tempomaster.com[/URL] web site and watch the demo videos. Dr. Melvin has proven conclusively that the shaft flex characteristics are meaningless-- IF the golfer swings the clubhead centrifugally-- which is the way they are designed and weighted.

You would also need to deny that 100 years of golf club evolution has been meaningless-- or unexplainable. How on Earth did Bobby Jones and his whole generation hit them straight and long with tiny forged blades on wooden shafts?

My wife and nearly all women SWING the clubhead like it is weight on a string. (as Bobby Jones did). They DO NOT use leverage from the handle-- and thus they throw the clubhead at the ball on plane and accelerating. They do what we should do.

Bobby Jones did NOT "load" or bend the shaft of his clubs--therefore the flex characteristics are meaningless. We should not bend the shaft either-- which is the reason the GolfLabs golf club testing machine has a free swivel "wrist." It is impossible for it to exert leverage on the club handle.

[URL="http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html"]http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html[/URL]

Larry[/quote]

Here's a photo of Bobby Jones during his downswing. Call me crazy but it sure appears as though he's "loaded" the shaft.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]Here's a photo of Bobby Jones during his downswing. Call me crazy but it sure appears as though he's "loaded" the shaft.[/QUOTE]
Of course he's loaded up in that picture and in every other full shot he ever hit just like 99.995% percent of the world's golfers. How do you know when a shaft is too stiff for you? DUH, when you cant load it enough to get the pop you should given all your individual parameters. One of the best feeling iron shafts I ever hit was made from hickory with a 5 iron head, probably from the '20's or 30's. Perfect weight, flex, kick point. I could have hit 500 balls with that club and not been sore or blistered afterwards. In the old days when all shafts were wood, the pro's used to adjust their own shaft flexes and kick points with a real sharp knife or razor scaping off little bits of wood at various points along the shaft until they got it where it felt best.

[QUOTE=A V Twiss]I have a 98mph swing speed and find a regular works just fine for me. Some club fitters suggest that I am borderline stiff but my experience of using a stiff shaft has found me hitting balls low and right. I have tried a couple of senior shafts, just for fun, and usually go too high and left.[/QUOTE]
I have about the same swing speed, and my results are like yours. I get the best results with a smooth swing on an R flex (true "R" flex, not an OEM crap "R flex" shaft that is actually a senior or women's flex) shaft. Too stiff, and it's short, low, and right. With an OEM so-called "R" flex, I'm likely to go high and left, since I'm actually swinging a rock on a wet noodle.....

Some people who want a really lightweight but controllable shaft will use a senior flex very lightweight shaft, then tip it like crazy to stiffen it up so it doesn't play too floppy. They get a lot of flex out of it, while stiffening the tip and reducing the effective torque. I've never tried this, but it is another option that might work for some.

[quote=mongrel]Of course he's loaded up in that picture and in every other full shot he ever hit just like 99.995% percent of the world's golfers. How do you know when a shaft is too stiff for you? DUH, when you cant load it enough to get the pop you should given all your individual parameters. One of the best feeling iron shafts I ever hit was made from hickory with a 5 iron head, probably from the '20's or 30's. Perfect weight, flex, kick point. I could have hit 500 balls with that club and not been sore or blistered afterwards. In the old days when all shafts were wood, the pro's used to adjust their own shaft flexes and kick points with a real sharp knife or razor scaping off little bits of wood at various points along the shaft until they got it where it felt best.[/quote]

That sounds kind of cool. You go out to the range with your brand new hickory clubs and realize they are too stiff. What does a man do? There aren't any clubfitters back then. It's simple. Go home, take out your pocket knife and start whiddling away until you get the right flex.

[quote=Larryrsf]Wow! So you deny that the Whippy clubs exist and that golfers with a good swing can hit balls to a target almost as accurately with those as with regular woods or irons? Go to the [URL="http://www.tempomaster.com"]http://www.tempomaster.com[/URL] web site and watch the demo videos. Dr. Melvin has proven conclusively that the shaft flex characteristics are meaningless-- IF the golfer swings the clubhead centrifugally-- which is the way they are designed and weighted.

You would also need to deny that 100 years of golf club evolution has been meaningless-- or unexplainable. How on Earth did Bobby Jones and his whole generation hit them straight and long with tiny forged blades on wooden shafts?

My wife and nearly all women SWING the clubhead like it is weight on a string. (as Bobby Jones did). They DO NOT use leverage from the handle-- and thus they throw the clubhead at the ball on plane and accelerating. They do what we should do.

Bobby Jones did NOT "load" or bend the shaft of his clubs--therefore the flex characteristics are meaningless. We should not bend the shaft either-- which is the reason the GolfLabs golf club testing machine has a free swivel "wrist." It is impossible for it to exert leverage on the club handle.

[URL="http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html"]http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html[/URL]

Larry[/quote]


Inertia.

Momentum.

Newton's laws of motion.

Heard of them?

Also, in terms of Physics, the proper term is "centripetal", not "centrifugal".

The nominal weight (actually, mass) of a driver head is about 205 grams (that's an SI unit BTW). Acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s^2. Would you like me to do the math for you to show you what the angular velocity of that club head would be if it were swung "centripetally" over 270* and we assume that it is 1.143m long (that's 45")? It ain't gonna be much. Matter of fact, without an external force applied (by the ummmmmm.......golfer), it wouldn't move at all from address to initiate the backswing.

The power for the golf swing comes from the core muscles of the torso combined with the turn of the shoulders and is propagated through the arms as an extension of the shaft. The reason that the swing robots have a swivel for the wrists is because that's the way people use them too. Not to add leverage, but because they are an integral part of the geometry of the golf swing.

Of course, you're more than welcome to believe what you want, even if it is wrong. You've proved yourself to be quite adept at over-generalizing and jumping to false conclusions.

BTW......

Does the Whippy Tempomaster help you with balance? I'm guessing not.

[quote=Jeff_h]Inertia.

Momentum.

Newton's laws of motion.

Heard of them?

Also, in terms of Physics, the proper term is "centripetal", not "centrifugal".

The nominal weight (actually, mass) of a driver head is about 205 grams (that's an SI unit BTW). Acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s^2. Would you like me to do the math for you to show you what the angular velocity of that club head would be if it were swung "centripetally" over 270* and we assume that it is 1.143m long (that's 45")? It ain't gonna be much. Matter of fact, without an external force applied (by the ummmmmm.......golfer), it wouldn't move at all from address to initiate the backswing.

The power for the golf swing comes from the core muscles of the torso combined with the turn of the shoulders and is propagated through the arms as an extension of the shaft. The reason that the swing robots have a swivel for the wrists is because that's the way people use them too. Not to add leverage, but because they are an integral part of the geometry of the golf swing.

Of course, you're more than welcome to believe what you want, even if it is wrong. You've proved yourself to be quite adept at over-generalizing and jumping to false conclusions.

BTW......

Does the Whippy Tempomaster help you with balance? I'm guessing not.[/quote]

Jeff, all of this talk about centripetal force has me thinking. Would it be legal to have a clubhead attached to a rubbery hose-like shaft or even a cable? If so, you could tee up your ball, take your normal stance and then begin spinning the club with your hand and wrist. You know, like Crocodile Dundee did when he called the aboriginees for help. He took a piece of wood with a string attached to it and spun it around real fast just using his hand. When you got it going fast enough you could make contact with the ball. Oh, wait a minute, there would be no leverage behind the ball. Your hands, arms, legs and body hold onto the club during impact and creat the stability and power needed for a long golf shot. Never mind.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]I have about the same swing speed, and my results are like yours. I get the best results with a smooth swing on an R flex[B] (true "R" flex, not an OEM crap "R flex" shaft that is actually a senior or women's flex)[/B] shaft. Too stiff, and it's short, low, and right. With an OEM so-called "R" flex, I'm likely to go high and left, since I'm actually swinging a rock on a wet noodle.....

Some people who want a really lightweight but controllable shaft will use a senior flex very lightweight shaft, then tip it like crazy to stiffen it up so it doesn't play too floppy. They get a lot of flex out of it, while stiffening the tip and reducing the effective torque. I've never tried this, but it is another option that might work for some.[/QUOTE]
Callaway are traditionally the worst OEM for this. Their old RCH shaft was notoriously soft rated. I think the idea was for a whimp to come in and hit a firm or stiff flex in the nets and for the first time in his life feel like he could handle a mans shaft. Even when they got to the course it wasn't a big issue as they may be spraying it all over the shop, but they were still getting good distance. It was great marketing because choppers actually could get more distance from the stiff RCH than their old R flex shafted drivers, and would gladly sacrifice accuracy off the tee for distance and the pride of bagging a stiff shafted driver.

Over the years I've picked up drivers and fairway woods dirt cheap because guys who had played Callys made the mistake of getting an aftermarket stiff shaft fitted only to find they couldn't handle them. I've also never paid close to full price for shafts which have been ordered in for other guys but pulled when they were too stiff.

The irony is that when a good aftermarket shaft was put in Cally drivers they were actually decent clubs, but their insistence of putting $10 stock shafts with soft ratings has given them a bad name with good players.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Callaway are traditionally the worst OEM for this. Their old RCH shaft was notoriously soft rated. I think the idea was for a whimp to come in and hit a firm or stiff flex in the nets and for the first time in his life feel like he could handle a mans shaft. Even when they got to the course it wasn't a big issue as they may be spraying it all over the shop, but they were still getting good distance. It was great marketing because choppers actually could get more distance from the stiff RCH than their old R flex shafted drivers, and would gladly sacrifice accuracy off the tee for distance and the pride of bagging a stiff shafted driver.

Over the years I've picked up drivers and fairway woods dirt cheap because guys who had played Callys made the mistake of getting an aftermarket stiff shaft fitted only to find they couldn't handle them. I've also never paid close to full price for shafts which have been ordered in for other guys but pulled when they were too stiff.

The irony is that when a good aftermarket shaft was put in Cally drivers they were actually decent clubs, but their insistence of putting $10 stock shafts with soft ratings has given them a bad name with good players.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's it at all. Callaway was always notoriously overpriced. Good players know better than to pay too much money for golf clubs when you can get the same or better results with clubs costing far less. Therefore Callaway became the official club of the "poser"!

To be fair I think Callaway has started to come back into the realm of reality and has actually started getting competitive in their pricing.

[QUOTE=SDB1]I don't think that's it at all. Callaway was always notoriously overpriced. Good players know better than to pay too much money for golf clubs when you can get the same or better results with clubs costing far less. Therefore Callaway became the official club of the "poser"!

To be fair I think Callaway has started to come back into the realm of reality and has actually started getting competitive in their pricing.[/QUOTE]
Your argument has a fundamental flaw. If overpricing is the problem, how do you explain the proliferation of Titleist clubs in the bags of low markers? Titty are more overpriced than even Cally but because they make equipment aimed at good players there are plenty of pigeons willing to pay through the nose for average at best quality equipment, even though "you can get the same or better results with clubs costing far less"

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Should make no difference at all. Basically you want a shaft that is lighter in weight so the clubhead can be heavier in relationship to the remainder of the club. Ideally there would be zero weight in shaft and handle and ALL the weight in the clubhead. That is the only place that kinetic energy is stored for transfer to the ball. [/quote]

Hmmm...

Dozens and dozens of touring pros, teach pros, golf equipment experts all say that shafts matter and Larry says they do not.

Who to believe?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Wow! So you deny that the Whippy clubs exist and that golfers with a good swing can hit balls to a target almost as accurately with those as with regular woods or irons? Go to the [url]http://www.tempomaster.com[/url] web site and watch the demo videos. Dr. Melvin has proven conclusively that the shaft flex characteristics are meaningless-- IF the golfer swings the clubhead centrifugally-- which is the way they are designed and weighted. [/quote]

The Whippy certainly exists, Larry, but if it really were so much better to have that kind of shaft...

...why doesn't anyone actually make a whole set like that to play golf rather than just to practice.

[quote]You would also need to deny that 100 years of golf club evolution has been meaningless-- or unexplainable. How on Earth did Bobby Jones and his whole generation hit them straight and long with tiny forged blades on wooden shafts? [/quote]

He was very good. Who's to say he couldn't have been better with steel shafts?

[quote]My wife and nearly all women SWING the clubhead like it is weight on a string. (as Bobby Jones did). They DO NOT use leverage from the handle-- and thus they throw the clubhead at the ball on plane and accelerating. They do what we should do.

Bobby Jones did NOT "load" or bend the shaft of his clubs--therefore the flex characteristics are meaningless. We should not bend the shaft either-- which is the reason the GolfLabs golf club testing machine has a free swivel "wrist." It is impossible for it to exert leverage on the club handle.

[url]http://www.clubmaker-online.com/bj003.html[/url][/QUOTE]

It's a [I]machine[/I], Larry. It does things that humans cannot. For a start, it gets to make its swings with a 7.8 horsepower motor. Do you have any idea how many times more power that is than a typical healthy human being can generate under ideal circumstances?

[QUOTE=famousdavis]Here's a photo of Bobby Jones during his downswing. Call me crazy but it sure appears as though he's "loaded" the shaft.[/QUOTE]

To be fair to Larry (and goodness knows, he needs it more than anyone), what you're seeing there is the result of a vertical shutter.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Your argument has a fundamental flaw. If overpricing is the problem, how do you explain the proliferation of Titleist clubs in the bags of low markers? Titty are more overpriced than even Cally but because they make equipment aimed at good players there are plenty of pigeons willing to pay through the nose for average at best quality equipment, even though "you can get the same or better results with clubs costing far less"[/QUOTE]

I've never known Titleist to be more expensive than the other big names. Sets of irons are usually $899-$999. Drivers usually $299-$399. Callaway was always $1099-$1499 for irons and $399-$499 for a Driver. Plus, Titleist has always been very traditional in their equipment. If you fork out $1000 for a set of irons you can be sure they're going to be forged Muscle Backs or "players" cavities at the minimum.

Callaway was selling their GI Shovels for $1299!!! They didn't even make a traditional set of irons!

[QUOTE=J-RO]Ive been using a senior flex for the last couple of rounds while i wait for my other shafts to be cut and regriped for me. Just wondering how much distance gain i can expect from going to sinior-reg-stiff flex. any help would be great thx[/QUOTE]

I'm doing some experimenting. I really like my Mizuno hybrid *17 that hits about as far as my 4 wood. But, I have a Mizuno hybrid *24 that I hit too far for my liking. It hits just a little bit shorter than the 17* does and I want a hybrid that will hit around the same distance as a 3 or 4 iron. So, I have bought a Mizuno 26* to see if it will fit the distance. It is coming to me with a senior shaft in it, but I have bought a UST V2 hybrid shaft in a regular to put in it. Before I put the new shaft in it though, I plan on hitting the senior shaft to see what it is like. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]I'm doing some experimenting. I really like my Mizuno hybrid *17 that hits about as far as my 4 wood. But, I have a Mizuno hybrid *24 that I hit too far for my liking. It hits just a little bit shorter than the 17* does and I want a hybrid that will hit around the same distance as a 3 or 4 iron. So, I have bought a Mizuno 26* to see if it will fit the distance. It is coming to me with a senior shaft in it, but I have bought a UST V2 hybrid shaft in a regular to put in it. Before I put the new shaft in it though, [B]I plan on hitting the senior shaft to see what it is like[/B]. I'll let you guys know what I find out.[/QUOTE]

It'll be fine. Shaft doesn't matter.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]It'll be fine. Shaft doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

You just rang Larry's bell . . . . .