A must read for all Scratch and Miura fans.

Thanks one and all (especially Loorenzo and Dorkman) for making an old mans day and producing my very first 100 post thread. I have been reading with interest but have resisted the temptation to bump this thread when it was getting closer to the mark.It can then loose some credibility as a century.
I know that for Larry he can achieve this easier than farting but for me it is a note worthy GR moment.
If you care to check this is my only reply since starting the thread.

Congrats Old Player!

I despise false advertising and have searched on several other golf forums to see what type of responses this whistle blowing article has produced.

Most of the guys that have already overpaid for their scratch equipment, seem very angry at this TSG dude. They always throw in this too: "i don't care what type of steel my $600 wedge is made from, because it is the best Ive ever had." While, most normal people that haven't overpaid for clubs supposedly forged in Japan but really forged in China with different metals than advertised, seem less opinionated, and are more concerned with collecting facts.

[QUOTE=The Purist]Congrats Old Player!

I despise false advertising and have searched on several other golf forums to see what type of responses this whistle blowing article has produced.

Most of the guys that have already overpaid for their scratch equipment, seem very angry at this TSG dude. They always throw in this too: "i don't care what type of steel my $600 wedge is made from, because it is the best Ive ever had." While, most normal people that haven't overpaid for clubs supposedly forged in Japan but really forged in China with different metals than advertised, seem less opinionated, and are more concerned with collecting facts.[/QUOTE]

The idiocy continues.

SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ANY SCRATCH WEDGE COSTS $600. This falsehood has been repeated so many times that people are starting to believe it.

WHAT MAKES SCRATCH WEDGES UNIQUE IS THE SOLE GRIND AND CUSTOMIZATION, NOT THE METALLURGY.

When you get a truly custom wedge, choosing the loft, lie angle, sole grind, finish, shaft, and grip, you are going to pay more because it is a custom item. THAT is what you are paying $300 for. You are getting a labor intensive, truly custom product, not something mass produced for nobody in particular. I don't care whether it is forged in Japan, China, or Indonesia. I DO care about the sole grind and customization.

Being a little better informed might be an asset.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]The idiocy continues.

SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ANY SCRATCH WEDGE COSTS $600. This falsehood has been repeated so many times that people are starting to believe it.

WHAT MAKES SCRATCH WEDGES UNIQUE IS THE SOLE GRIND, NOT THE METALLURGY.

When you get a truly custom wedge, choosing the loft, lie angle, sole grind, finish, shaft, and grip, you are going to pay more because it is a custom item. THAT is what you are paying $300 for. You are getting a labor intensive, truly custom product, not something mass produced for nobody in particular. I don't care whether it is forged in Japan, China, or Indonesia. I DO care about the sole grind and customization.

Being a little better informed might be an asset.[/QUOTE]
I think it's been well-documented that Scratch sells $600 wedges, and that you have purchased 3 of them.
We all know what a real phenomenon placebo effect can be. It's got you convinced that you (as a 10 handicapper) can play unhittable shots with a custom sole grind. Embrace it.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]The idiocy continues.

SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ANY SCRATCH WEDGE COSTS $600. This falsehood has been repeated so many times that people are starting to believe it.

WHAT MAKES SCRATCH WEDGES UNIQUE IS THE SOLE GRIND AND CUSTOMIZATION, NOT THE METALLURGY.

When you get a truly custom wedge, choosing the loft, lie angle, sole grind, finish, shaft, and grip, you are going to pay more because it is a custom item. THAT is what you are paying $300 for. You are getting a labor intensive, truly custom product, not something mass produced for nobody in particular. I don't care whether it is forged in Japan, China, or Indonesia. I DO care about the sole grind and customization.

Being a little better informed might be an asset.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, they're $600. That's what it costs to be able to hit all the shots.

[quote=dorkman53]The idiocy continues.

SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ANY SCRATCH WEDGE COSTS $600. This falsehood has been repeated so many times that people are starting to believe it.

WHAT MAKES SCRATCH WEDGES UNIQUE IS THE SOLE GRIND AND CUSTOMIZATION, NOT THE METALLURGY.

When you get a truly custom wedge, choosing the loft, lie angle, sole grind, finish, shaft, and grip, you are going to pay more because it is a custom item. THAT is what you are paying $300 for. You are getting a labor intensive, truly custom product, not something mass produced for nobody in particular. I don't care whether it is forged in Japan, China, or Indonesia. I DO care about the sole grind and customization.

Being a little better informed might be an asset.[/quote]
I think it could be......
[ATTACH]2376[/ATTACH]
[SIZE=5]ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!
MOOOAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=dorkman53]The idiocy continues.

SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ANY SCRATCH WEDGE COSTS $600. This falsehood has been repeated so many times that people are starting to believe it.

WHAT MAKES SCRATCH WEDGES UNIQUE IS THE SOLE GRIND AND CUSTOMIZATION, NOT THE METALLURGY.

When you get a truly custom wedge, choosing the loft, lie angle, sole grind, finish, shaft, and grip, you are going to pay more because it is a custom item. THAT is what you are paying $300 for. You are getting a labor intensive, truly custom product, not something mass produced for nobody in particular. I don't care whether it is forged in Japan, China, or Indonesia. I DO care about the sole grind and customization.

Being a little better informed might be an asset.[/QUOTE]

Let's dissect this so-called customization:

Changing loft: About 20 seconds on a modern bending machine.
Changing lie angle: Another 20 seconds
Sole Grind: About 5 minutes or less.
Finish: I'm sure they are massed produced in a couple of finishes.
Shaft: All the manufacturers will do a custom shaft for you. You just have to order it.
Grip: Say it isn't so. You can actually choose your own grip? That must cost them a fortune.

All of the above is worth $600 for a wedge? I could go to a store, buy a Cleveland wedge and then take it to a clubfitter who would probably charge less than $100 for all of the above (except the finish).

[QUOTE=Horseballs]I think it's been well-documented that Scratch sells $600 wedges, and that you have purchased 3 of them.
We all know what a real phenomenon placebo effect can be. It's got you convinced that you (as a 10 handicapper) can play unhittable shots with a custom sole grind. Embrace it.[/QUOTE]
1. Please produce the documentation of a $600 wedge for sale by Scratch.

2. The reason you think those shots are unhittable is because YOU can't hit them. I can, and the fact that a 10 handicapper CAN make those shots speaks to the value of the clubs. Hadn't thought of that, had you?

3. The reason you can't hit them is because sole grinds on just about any OEM wedge I've ever tried won't give good results on a flop shot unless the shot is nearly absolutely perfectly executed. In most wedges, there is a razor thin margin between too thin and too fat on a flop shot. The sole grind of most wedges doesn't allow the leading edge to get low enough to sweep under the ball with the face wide open. It's also related to the problem of hitting highly lofted shots out of firm bunkers with standard crappy wedges. This largely explains your self-admitted failure on these and other similar shots.

4. The idea that I, as a former club ho, would fall for the placebo effect is beyond laughable. I've bought plenty of clubs that ranged from inexpensive to very expensive that I jettisoned because they didn't live up to my expectations. I have no sentimental attachment to any club if it doesn't perform. I'm a big enough boy to realize when I've made a mistake, lick my wounds, and put it up for sale on e-bay. I'm very unemotional about buying and selling golf clubs. They are tools to be used. If they serve their purpose, I keep them. If they don't, I recoup part of my money and move on.

I am weary of arguing with idiots who won't concede the obvious; that the sole grind is extremely important in wedge play.

Enjoy your fantasy world.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]
I am weary of arguing with idiots who won't concede the obvious; that the sole grind is extremely important in wedge play.

Enjoy your fantasy world.[/QUOTE]

Bish wut?

You are living in a fantasy world jackass!

Sh!t, This weekend, I just watched a left handed player get caught on the wrong side of a tree, and he hit right handed with a left handed club, and did pretty good... Phil Mickelson.

Your dumb ass thinks it is the club, not the swing, yet Phil can take a left handed club and swing the bastard right handed off of a tree, and get closer to the pin than you.

So, dumbass (dorky), tell me what is so good about sole grinds on a golf club, if someone can swing it backwards/upside down, and ass over tea kettle next to a tree, and get a perfect shot?

It is the swing, not the club, retard; how many times has Larryrsf tried to teach you this? I agree with Larry.

It is not the club retard.

Dorky, you have been consumed by the placebo effect.

If you were a man, you would just say you like the club, and feel good with it. Wedge play retard? Kenny always said to play the short wedge game as if your forearms were in casts... best advice ever.

Dorky, you probably drive a red Miata and lift pink weights like SDB1 and Alang.

Look, I need to remain as anonymous as possible here on the internet but Kenny Venturi is/was all over San Francisco. His son is cool, but cannot swing for sh!t, unfortunately.

Kenny says that you need to take the club back pulling with your right arm, not pushing with your left; Kenny won the U.S. Open, so I advocate his teachings.

So, what are your opinions on the backswing? pushing with the left arm, or pulling with the right?

Oh, Kenny says you never stop at the top of the backswing; as your hips move forward, your arms are still moving back.

This makes perfect sense to an athlete; I guess a retard might go buy some $600 wedges and start playing scratch golf instead... or buy a Miata, and bounce a purple dildo off of the knees, ankles, and toes like a soccer ball (SDB1) for larger calf growth.

A 10 handicap is pretty retarded, but then I am still trying to break 110 this season.

spank

[QUOTE=famousdavis]Let's dissect this so-called customization:

Changing loft: About 20 seconds on a modern bending machine.
Changing lie angle: Another 20 seconds
Sole Grind: About 5 minutes or less.
Finish: I'm sure they are massed produced in a couple of finishes.
Shaft: All the manufacturers will do a custom shaft for you. You just have to order it.
Grip: Say it isn't so. You can actually choose your own grip? That must cost them a fortune.

All of the above is worth $600 for a wedge? I could go to a store, buy a Cleveland wedge and then take it to a clubfitter who would probably charge less than $100 for all of the above (except the finish).[/QUOTE]
You, too, are demonstrating your gross ignorance about sole grinds. You probably think you can just take a wedge and "take a little off the edges" and have a wedge that will work? Have you actually seen pictures of the sole grinds on the Scratch website, or are you continuing just to spew ignorant nonsense out of sheer habit? Are you stupid enough to think that if you change the loft of a club, it won't affect its effective bounce and playability? The idea that you can take an existing club and do a few quick manipulations on it, and come out with anything worth playing again demonstrates how little you understand.

The fact that they offer a truly unique product, plus the fact that they ARE truly custom for many separate parameters, including finish, sole grind, toe shape, as well as the obvious loft and lie angles which are fixed at the outset, means that they are in a position to charge a premium price, which is about $300 for a full custom job.

You really ought to know better than to demonstrate your ignorance so transparently to the board. There's a big difference between making a club at the outset to have particular parameters vs. simply trying to tweak an existing club a bit, as most clubmakers might try to do. You couldn't turn an OEM wedge into a sole grind like many of theirs without shaving off a lot of the club, if it was to save your life. You're out of your league here, junior, compared to the experts who make their living designing innovative clubs.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie]Bish wut?

You are living in a fantasy world jackass!

Sh!t, This weekend, I just watched a left handed player get caught on the wrong side of a tree, and he hit right handed with a left handed club, and did pretty good... Phil Mickelson.

Your dumb ass thinks it is the club, not the swing, yet Phil can take a left handed club and swing the bastard right handed off of a tree, and get closer to the pin than you.

So, dumbass (dorky), tell me what is so good about sole grinds on a golf club, if someone can swing it backwards/upside down, and ass over tea kettle next to a tree, and get a perfect shot?

It is the swing, not the club, retard; how many times has Larryrsf tried to teach you this? I agree with Larry.

It is not the club retard.

Dorky, you have been consumed by the placebo effect.

If you were a man, you would just say you like the club, and feel good with it. Wedge play retard? Kenny always said to play the short wedge game as if your forearms were in casts... best advice ever.

Dorky, you probably drive a red Miata and lift pink weights like SDB1 and Alang.

Look, I need to remain as anonymous as possible here on the internet but Kenny Venturi is/was all over San Francisco. His son is cool, but cannot swing for sh!t, unfortunately.

Kenny says that you need to take the club back pulling with your right arm, not pushing with your left; Kenny won the U.S. Open, so I advocate his teachings.

So, what are your opinions on the backswing? pushing with the left arm, or pulling with the right?

spank[/QUOTE]

The fallacy of your logic fails to surprise me.
The fact that Phil Mickelson can hit a wrong handed shot with a backwards club has very little to do with anything other than the fact that Phil has undoubtedly practiced this shot many times. So what does this clever observation have to do with any of the rest of us, who don't make a living playing golf? If I understand what you were feebly attempting to say, it seems that you were implying that since Phil could make that shot, that.........no.....my mind just can't make sense out of what you were trying to say....

But I was able to get you to call me a bastard and a jackass in the same post, so now that you have exhausted your vocabulary for the week, perhaps you should head off to bed before your brain explodes.

I am still awaiting the ass kicking you have promised me so many times over so many years. Once you even offered to come down and administer it to me. Oh, men and their promises........

Dorkie, it's ok to feel embarassed. We've got your back around here, whether you spend $450, $600 or whatever on your wedges. Even though I'm concerned you're going to maim yourself or something. It's a free country. It's your right to waste alot of money if you so decide.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Dorkie, it's ok to feel embarassed. We've got your back around here, whether you spend $450, $600 or whatever on your wedges. Even though I'm concerned you're going to maim yourself or something. It's a free country. It's your right to waste alot of money if you so decide.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your heartfelt concern. It IS my right and privilege to spend however much I wish on whatever I want......even if it does happen to outperform the competiton......

I can afford to pay more for a product that works better for me than others I've tried. If you can't, don't buy them, and enjoy the sour grapes.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]
I am still awaiting the ass kicking you have promised me so many times over so many years. Once you even offered to come down and administer it to me. Oh, men and their promises........[/QUOTE]

Well, take comfort in the fact that I respond to you, and give you relevance.

Dorkman, it must be completely obvious that you have been totally flamed from start to finish on this topic. Everyone is fully aware that scratch wedges don't cost $600. You seem unable to not take the bait and keep responding in a serious way to this blatent flaming........Why???

Another 10-9 round to spank. Almost a 10-8. I haven't kept a scorecard for this bout, but Spank would be comfortably in front. I think someone in Dorky's corner should throw in the towel to save him from more punishment.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Dorkman, it must be completely obvious that you have been totally flamed from start to finish on this topic. Everyone is fully aware that scratch wedges don't cost $600. You seem unable to not take the bait and keep responding in a serious way to this blatent flaming........Why???[/QUOTE]
Because this is GR....

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Dorkman, it must be completely obvious that you have been totally flamed from start to finish on this topic. Everyone is fully aware that scratch wedges don't cost $600. You seem unable to not take the bait and keep responding in a serious way to this blatent flaming........Why???[/QUOTE]


Well that's gratitude for you eh Dorkman?

You almost singlehandedly provide Oldplayer with his first 100 post thread and this is the thanks you get.

Must make you wonder why you bother sometimes??? :confused:

[quote=dorkman53]Because this is GR....[/quote]

Every good comedy act needs a straight man........:cool:

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Dorkman, it must be completely obvious that you have been totally flamed from start to finish on this topic. Everyone is fully aware that scratch wedges don't cost $600. You seem unable to not take the bait and keep responding in a serious way to this blatent flaming........Why???[/QUOTE]
It is one of the greatest mysteries how someone with 7,000 posts still hasn't caught the vibe of this place.
But then again, we're obviously not dealing with someone with a full deck. He actually believes his 3 $600 wedges that he bought sight unseen provide him the magic grind necessary to hit all the shots. I don't have any problem with people spending $600/wedge, but I'd appreciate a bit of honesty for the reason behind the purchase. It is either placebo or ego. No other acceptable answers/excuses.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]It is one of the greatest mysteries how someone with 7,000 posts still hasn't caught the vibe of this place.
But then again, we're obviously not dealing with someone with a full deck. He actually believes his 3 $600 wedges that he bought sight unseen provide him the magic grind necessary to hit all the shots. I don't have any problem with people spending $600/wedge, but I'd appreciate a bit of honesty for the reason behind the purchase. It is either placebo or ego. No other acceptable answers/excuses.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I'm qualified or educated enough to talk about irony...but...whenever someone asks for advice on clubs, Dman pretty much always suggests lessons over new equipment. The hypocrisy of it all. I don't care that Dman buys $600 wedges, but at least practice what you preach.

The next time some newb comes on here looking for advice on how to cure some swing issue...It would be nice to see the Dman tell him what he really thinks: "Listen up chopperboy. I can help you fix your problems, but its gonna involve a custom grind and a lot of cash."

[QUOTE=The Purist]I'm not sure I'm qualified or educated enough to talk about irony...but...whenever someone asks for advice on clubs, Dman pretty much always suggests lessons over new equipment. The hypocrisy of it all. I don't care that Dman buys $600 wedges, but at least practice what you preach.

The next time some newb comes on here looking for advice on how to cure some swing issue...It would be nice to see the Dman tell him what he really thinks: "Listen up chopperboy. I can help you fix your problems, but its gonna involve a custom grind and a lot of cash."[/QUOTE]
Normally I would agree, but once you reach a vaunted 10 handicap, the only way to further cut strokes is by spending money. He has learned everything he can and has mastered the golf swing. If my grinds were any good, I'd be at least scratch (pun kinda intended).

The only thing I do like is the custom grind options. I'm not sure if it's worth 600 bucks, but my current wedges have that POS dual sole grind that makes short shots around the green a challenge. It feels like I have 20 degrees of bounce on the bottom of my clubs and I'm constantly fighting hitting the ball thin.

If I had a grinding wheel I'd just take care of it myself.

[QUOTE=Mward2002]The only thing I do like is the custom grind options. I'm not sure if it's worth 600 bucks, but my current wedges have that POS dual sole grind that makes short shots around the green a challenge. It feels like I have 20 degrees of bounce on the bottom of my clubs and I'm constantly fighting hitting the ball thin.

If I had a grinding wheel I'd just take care of it myself.[/QUOTE]
Nail file + elbow grease = $600 wedge.

I've tried every way I know to help Dorkie find an open mind about this. Whoever's brainwashed him really knew what they're doing. It's pretty clear by now he's going to spend $600 on each of his wedges no matter what anyone says, no matter whether there's any benefit or not.

Not long ago, I was eyeballing a $600 yuppie knife for the kitchen. I could get the $7 knife at Target, but there's things you can cut with the $600 knife you just can't cut with a Target knife. That's why you never see Mexicans making anything that needs to be precision cut. It's always burritos or something. If you err and cut up Mexican food, it looks like someone threw up on your plate.

So since I'm not Mexican, I want the $600 knife.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]You, too, are demonstrating your gross ignorance about sole grinds. You probably think you can just take a wedge and "take a little off the edges" and have a wedge that will work? Have you actually seen pictures of the sole grinds on the Scratch website, or are you continuing just to spew ignorant nonsense out of sheer habit? Are you stupid enough to think that if you change the loft of a club, it won't affect its effective bounce and playability? The idea that you can take an existing club and do a few quick manipulations on it, and come out with anything worth playing again demonstrates how little you understand.

The fact that they offer a truly unique product, plus the fact that they ARE truly custom for many separate parameters, including finish, sole grind, toe shape, as well as the obvious loft and lie angles which are fixed at the outset, means that they are in a position to charge a premium price, which is about $300 for a full custom job.

You really ought to know better than to demonstrate your ignorance so transparently to the board. There's a big difference between making a club at the outset to have particular parameters vs. simply trying to tweak an existing club a bit, as most clubmakers might try to do. You couldn't turn an OEM wedge into a sole grind like many of theirs without shaving off a lot of the club, if it was to save your life. You're out of your league here, junior, compared to the experts who make their living designing innovative clubs.[/QUOTE]

Now you really are sounding like a dorky man. It's not as if Scratch takes your desired bounce, lie angle, grind and toe shape and then proceeds to forge a brand new club. They take a club that has been forged and then they make adjustments to it. You just can't accept the fact that you are paying $500 more for a club that doesn't make any difference. Based on your comments above i'm not inviting you to Easter.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I've tried every way I know to help Dorkie find an open mind about this. Whoever's brainwashed him really knew what they're doing. It's pretty clear by now he's going to spend $600 on each of his wedges no matter what anyone says, no matter whether there's any benefit or not.

Not long ago, I was eyeballing a $600 yuppie knife for the kitchen. I could get the $7 knife at Target, but there's things you can cut with the $600 knife you just can't cut with a Target knife. That's why you never see Mexicans making anything that needs to be precision cut. It's always burritos or something. If you err and cut up Mexican food, it looks like someone threw up on your plate.

So since I'm not Mexican, I want the $600 knife.[/QUOTE]
Lorenzo, The knife industry is a lot like the golf industry. Knife quality tops out around $150. You can pay more, but your $600 knife is forged in the same Chinese plant to the same specs as my $150 knife. The $600 market was created for people who can't judge quality, and blindly buy whatever costs the most...though I won't deny overpaying for a product will often create an almost spiritual bond between the product and consumer.

[quote=Mward2002]The only thing I do like is the custom grind options. I'm not sure if it's worth 600 bucks, but my current wedges have that POS dual sole grind that makes short shots around the green a challenge. It feels like I have 20 degrees of bounce on the bottom of my clubs and I'm constantly fighting hitting the ball thin.

[B]If I had a grinding wheel I'd just take care of it myself.[/B][/quote]

That's what I told an old girlfriend. I've never been the same since......:eek:

[QUOTE=The Purist]Lorenzo, The knife industry is a lot like the golf industry. Knife quality tops out around $150. You can pay more, but your $600 knife is forged in the same Chinese plant to the same specs as my $150 knife. The $600 market was created for people who can't judge quality, and blindly buy whatever costs the most...though I won't deny overpaying for a product will often create an almost spiritual bond between the product and consumer.[/QUOTE]


This knife comes with a certificate of authenticity signed by the president of the United States with a gold pen. The pen is included too. You can write things with a gold pen you just can't write with any other pen. I might list all of my reasons why again and again, but I'm not going to try and justify it to you. Which I guess must mean I'm trying to justify it to myself.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]This knife comes with a certificate of authenticity signed by the president of the United States with a gold pen. The pen is included too. You can write things with a gold pen you just can't write with any other pen. I might list all of my reasons why again and again, but I'm not going to try and justify it to you. Which I guess must mean I'm trying to justify it to myself.[/QUOTE]
Heresy! You are probably not using the proper knife for your cutting style. Are you a slasher, slicer, or chopper? This determines how the knife edge is ground. Can you imagine using 4x4 chopper to skin a fish? Your ignorance is astounding.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Heresy! You are probably not using the proper knife for your cutting style. Are you a slasher, slicer, or chopper? This determines how the knife edge is ground. Can you imagine using 4x4 chopper to skin a fish? Your ignorance is astounding.[/QUOTE]

What do you think, I'm French? I know how to make all the cuts. That's why I need a $600 knife. It's the cheap knives that aren't versatile. Tiger Woods uses a $600 knife with a $5 name on it. Sometimes it's hard to make sense of things.

[quote=lorenzoinoc]I've tried every way I know to help Dorkie find an open mind about this. Whoever's brainwashed him really knew what they're doing. It's pretty clear by now he's going to spend $600 on each of his wedges no matter what anyone says, no matter whether there's any benefit or not.

Not long ago, I was eyeballing a $600 yuppie knife for the kitchen. I could get the $7 knife at Target, but there's things you can cut with the $600 knife you just can't cut with a Target knife. That's why you never see Mexicans making anything that needs to be precision cut. It's always burritos or something. If you err and cut up Mexican food, it looks like someone threw up on your plate.

So since I'm not Mexican, I want the $600 knife.[/quote]

My regular Sushi Chef has a couple $400-$600 knifes that he said he swears by. I told him to quit swearing and make me a roll........:cool:

I just went to the Scratch website and chose all of the upgrades I could for the SB-1 irons. The total came out to $1,839. This included an upgrade to the Aerotech Steel Fiber shafts (an additional $320), having the shafts SST Pured (an additional $240), a grip upgrade to Golf Pride Full Cord (an additioanl $80). I get to choose the paint fill and the ferrule color. Now, this all sounds great while I'm sitting in front of my computer. I can picture myself hitting these great shots and how this customization will make a huge difference in my game. However, when I get out onto the course and start playing it will hit me that none of this makes any difference. I think lie angle and shaft flex is important but that's about it. Offset is personal preference. The scratch irons are pretty cool looking and I like the understated look. I just can't see spending that kind of money no matter how wealthy I am.

[quote=famousdavis]I just went to the Scratch website and chose all of the upgrades I could for the SB-1 irons. The total came out to $1,839. This included an upgrade to the Aerotech Steel Fiber shafts (an additional $320), having the shafts SST Pured (an additional $240), a grip upgrade to Golf Pride Full Cord (an additioanl $80). [B]I get to choose the paint fill and the ferrule color.[/B] Now, this all sounds great while I'm sitting in front of my computer. I can picture myself hitting these great shots and how this customization will make a huge difference in my game. However, when I get out onto the course and start playing it will hit me that none of this makes any difference. I think lie angle and shaft flex is important but that's about it. Offset is personal preference. The scratch irons are pretty cool looking and I like the understated look. I just can't see spending that kind of money no matter how wealthy I am.[/quote]

I can do that for ya brutha.......:cool:

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I just went to the Scratch website and chose all of the upgrades I could for the SB-1 irons. The total came out to $1,839. This included an upgrade to the Aerotech Steel Fiber shafts (an additional $320), having the shafts SST Pured (an additional $240), a grip upgrade to Golf Pride Full Cord (an additioanl $80). I get to choose the paint fill and the ferrule color. Now, this all sounds great while I'm sitting in front of my computer. I can picture myself hitting these great shots and how this customization will make a huge difference in my game. However, when I get out onto the course and start playing it will hit me that none of this makes any difference. I think lie angle and shaft flex is important but that's about it. Offset is personal preference. The scratch irons are pretty cool looking and I like the understated look. I just can't see spending that kind of money no matter how wealthy I am.[/QUOTE]

Once you get a turnip in the truck, it's in the truck. I see them expanding their product lines until their customers are out of money.

This thread has become a little one-sided. What about Miura?!
Are they overpriced as well? Do you get something special for your money? Do they forge knives?

[quote=oldplayer]This thread has become a little one-sided. What about Miura?!
Are they overpriced as well? Do you get something special for your money? Do they forge knives?[/quote]

So what? Are ya going for 200 posts now OP?.......:D

[QUOTE=noshuz]So what? Are ya going for 200 posts now OP?.......:D[/QUOTE]

Was it that transparent? :blush2:
Really though, I would never be so bold as to dream of achieving the lofty hights that you have.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]Now you really are sounding like a dorky man. It's not as if Scratch takes your desired bounce, lie angle, grind and toe shape and then proceeds to forge a brand new club. They take a club that has been forged and then they make adjustments to it. You just can't accept the fact that you are paying $500 more for a club that doesn't make any difference. Based on your comments above i'm not inviting you to Easter.[/QUOTE]
Obviously, they don't forge a club just for a custom order. What they do is take an oversized blank that has been forged to the proper loft, then they custom grind it for the toe shape and sole grind preferred (they may have small batches of particular sole grinds for particular lofts, obviously), and put whatever finish has been ordered, place any custom stampings on it (I usually get my initials), paintfill it, shaft and grip it. If you want to call that semi-custom instead of custom, that's OK with me.
It's not what a clubmaker would do in his shop, giving a little toe or heel relief, or making a small adjustment on loft or lie. They start with the oversized blank, so they can end up with the proper weight after they have ground it to preferences.
Then they charge about $300 for the deal.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Obviously, they don't forge a club just for a custom order. What they do is take an oversized blank that has been forged to the proper loft, then they custom grind it for the toe shape and sole grind preferred (they may have small batches of particular sole grinds for particular lofts, obviously), and put whatever finish has been ordered, place any custom stampings on it (I usually get my initials), paintfill it, shaft and grip it. If you want to call that semi-custom instead of custom, that's OK with me.
It's not what a clubmaker would do in his shop, giving a little toe or heel relief, or making a small adjustment on loft or lie. They start with the oversized blank, so they can end up with the proper weight after they have ground it to preferences.
Then they charge about $300 for the deal.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know that Scratch wedges were oversized. Does that mean they qualify as chopper shovels for $300? What is an oversized blank? Sounds like my chubby.

$600 and it's not even truly custom. Wow.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Obviously, they don't forge a club just for a custom order. What they do is take an oversized blank that has been forged to the proper loft... [/QUOTE]

Who the hell pays $600 for a freaking wedge? I cannot believe this!

Just give me the oversized blank and I would out chip your squirrely begoggled ass all day long son; all day...

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I didn't know that Scratch wedges were oversized. Does that mean they qualify as chopper shovels for $300? What is an oversized blank? Sounds like my chubby.[/QUOTE]
One is never sure how ignorant the person is who is posting, or reading this, so let me clarify so you don't confuse an innocent party with your apparent attempt at humor.

The blank is oversized so it can be shaped to many different sole grinds, while leaving all of them at a reasonable final weight. Some have quite a bit of toe or heel relief, or trailing edge relief, and others have a sole with less relief to improve play under various conditions.

The final result is a normal sized muscleback-blade configuration.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie]Who the hell pays $600 for a freaking wedge? I cannot believe this!

Just give me the oversized blank and I would out chip your squirrely begoggled ass all day long son; all day...[/QUOTE]
You should have stayed in school so you could afford one of these $800 wedges, Spank. Dropping out during junior high isn't turning out to be the best career move you ever made.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]$600 and it's not even truly custom. Wow.[/QUOTE]
Sorry....you missed out at the opportunity to buy when they were a mere $600. They're up to $800 now, and that doesn't even include the stick, or shaft, or whatever you call that rubber coated thingie you grab onto when you swing the club.....

Is it just me, or is Dorky starting to sound like those newbs trying to push the Maxfli Fires a while back? With about as much success.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Is it just me, or is Dorky starting to sound like those newbs trying to push the Maxfli Fires a while back? With about as much success.[/QUOTE]
I have no stake financially in Scratch, but do take a perverse joy in annoying the easily excitable animals on the board.....

This has proven to be a symbiotic relationship; I've never tried a LarryRSF-esque "get everybody down on me at once" routine before, but it has provided a lot of entertainment for a lot of people. I can't rule out a repeat performance, should the need arise.........

[QUOTE=dorkman53]I have no stake financially in Scratch, but do take a perverse joy in annoying the easily excitable animals on the board.....

This has proven to be a symbiotic relationship; I've never tried a LarryRSF-esque [B]"get everybody down on me at once[/B]" routine before, but it has provided a lot of entertainment for a lot of people. I can't rule out a repeat performance, should the need arise.........[/QUOTE]

I certainly have no intention of going down on you.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]I certainly have no intention of going down on you.[/QUOTE]
Well......not necessarily YOU......but perhaps SOMEONE on this board might want to.......

Maybe one of the regulars on this board who has posted under a fake female name as his moniker might be a good place for me to start looking for willing candidates......

[quote=dorkman53]Well......not necessarily YOU......but perhaps SOMEONE on this board might want to.......

Maybe one of the regulars on this board who has posted under a fake female name as his moniker might be a good place for me to start looking for willing candidates......[/quote]

Que: Fiona, Camp Feddy and Miz>Ping

[QUOTE=oldplayer]I certainly have no intention of going down on you.[/QUOTE]


Atta boy, OP, hold your ground . . . . . .

Congrats on the 150 Oldplayer. Do you think 200 is likely? Might be a bit of a stretch. This thread seems to be running out of steam? I mean how many more $600 wedge baits will Dorkie rise to.

In my 200 post epic old SDB1 just couldn't help himself coming back for more.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Congrats on the 150 Oldplayer. Do you think 200 is likely? Might be a bit of a stretch. This thread seems to be running out of steam? I mean how many more $600 wedge baits will Dorkie rise to.

In my 200 post epic old SDB1 just couldn't help himself coming back for more.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Kiwi, I think you are probably right. But as I said before nothing has really been said about Miura irons. They make wedges too. And even hybrids I believe. Are they also overpriced poser clubs? I have a set of 201 cb's and the finish and workmanship are exceptionally good but performance wise I don't think they are any better than quality forged irons that you and I play. Is Miura a sacred cow?
In Australia you would have to pay nearly $2000 for a set of irons and that is on the net; not necessarily retail.
Thanks for reminding me of your 200 post EPIC. I realise I am only an insignificant old man and I don't profess any special status on GR. Suffice to say I am happy to take what good luck comes my way (as it is with most golfers) and would certainly enjoy the landmark of a 200 post thread however unlikely that may seem.

[QUOTE=FreakOfNature]Poe's Law is the best law of all...

Well worth $600 per wedge, IMO.

Dorky, you are quite fun at times. :p

You're never going to escape the nickname "The $600 Wedge Man". Lee Majors must envy you...

Gotta admit - of all the nicknames to be saddled with - you got a pretty cool one. :D

Wear it with pride.



FON[/QUOTE]

Wow, you keep on owning little dorky, more than I ever could. Your more recent ownage of dorky is epic on the other thread.

I mean, I have owned dorky before, but after 40 years of age, the testosterone starts to disappear in us; keep up the good work dude!

I cannot believe I have been on this forum for 13 years, already. Amazing how time flies.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]You can't get them custom ground at that price, but they have a number of selections for each swing type. You could still do well, for a lot less money.[/QUOTE]
OR you could buy a brand new Lajolla Knife wedge on eBay for $8.95. It's the best $8.95 that i spent, besides Trojan condoms :)

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Thanks Kiwi, I think you are probably right. But as I said before nothing has really been said about Miura irons. They make wedges too. And even hybrids I believe. Are they also overpriced poser clubs? I have a set of 201 cb's and the finish and workmanship are exceptionally good and performance wise I think they are any better than the quality forged irons that you play. Miura is a sacred cow.
In Australia you would have to pay nearly $6000 for a set of irons and that is on the net; not necessarily retail. Worth every penny.
Thanks for reminding me of your 200 post EPIC. I realise I am only an insignificant old man and I don't profess any special status on GR. Suffice to say I am happy to take what good luck comes my way (as it is with most golfers) and would certainly enjoy the landmark of a 200 post thread however unlikely that may seem.[/QUOTE]
OP, you've really dropped the ball with this post. I've edited the above post in order to achieve maximum replies.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]OP, you've really dropped the ball with this post. I've edited the above post in order to achieve maximum replies.[/QUOTE]

I went to the Miura website and the clubs look no better or worse than any other forged cavity back. This whole idea of "these clubs are made by hand by a master craftsman" is so silly. Come on. You need to get the ball into the hole. Cast shovels from Sportmart will get you there just as fast as Mr. Miura.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie]Funny you mention that... I am hitting Ireland, Wales, and Scotland in 6 months with a few days in London thrown in... I am going to bounce into the Scotch and Guinness tours of course.

No, the wine tasting thing was cool; you would have to have been born and raised here to appreciate it I guess; Sooner, you can tell me about your Budweiser/Coors tour another time. My idea to do it as my wife doesn't drink much; she loves the spa crap.

I did golf in Napa also while the wife hit the spa. I golf and my wife does the spa. It works out perfect.

Well I golfed at Paradise Valley in Fairfield; Kennedy and Chardonnay were in poor condition.

Gorgeous at Paradise Valley, albeit windy as hell! They are apparently in a rain shadow so the fairways and greens are pristine.

I shot an honest 113; hit the ball beautifully... Greatest golf I have ever played. The 3 wood was long and straight. I never used my driver, thus the low score. I cannot hit my driver for the life of me.

My 52 degree gap wedge (snake eyes) was dropping 3 feet from the pin... I got a couple of 11's and a 12, and a 9 that kind of messed with my score.

I am starting to think that maybe the shaft does make a difference. I used the Calloway 3 wood with the steel shaft. Why should I hit all steel shafts and then a graphite piece of crap on a driver?

I am looking to buy a Calloway Big Bertha with a steel shaft.

Graphite is for b!tches. I could probably beat 98 percent of all golfers on this forum.

I just want consistency, as I am improving quite a bit lately.

spank[/QUOTE]

If you are coming to Wales may I cordially invite you to join me for 18 holes at Oswestry GC if your schedule permits.

Hold on here.

I demoed Miruas with my shaft on them, bent to my specs. They are the single best iron I've ever hit. I had a chance to get a set with KBS shafts for $170 a club. Have to tell you, for the price of a couple of OP's collector sets that just collect dust where he keeps his porn hidden from his wife, I had to give it alot of thought.

But the next level of clubs are almost as good and are under $1,000, so how do you justify spending $1,500+ on clubs if they aren't, basically, an addition to your porn collection?

Particularly if you've already blown a ridiculous $1,800 on three wedges and another $1,000 on a jap driver.

All that said, if you think Miura's just another club, you're just whistling Dixie (first English idiom I learned). Even though some misguided souls might try and tell you there are other clubs (like Tourstage - what a laugh) that feel and perform just as well, they don't.

Miura is the pinnacle.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Thanks Kiwi, I think you are probably right. But as I said before nothing has really been said about Miura irons. They make wedges too. And even hybrids I believe. Are they also overpriced poser clubs? I have a set of 201 cb's and the finish and workmanship are exceptionally good but performance wise I don't think they are any better than quality forged irons that you and I play. Is Miura a sacred cow?
In Australia you would have to pay nearly $2000 for a set of irons and that is on the net; not necessarily retail.
[B]Thanks for reminding me of your 200 post EPIC. I realise I am only an insignificant old man and I don't profess any special status on GR[/B]. Suffice to say I am happy to take what good luck comes my way (as it is with most golfers) and would certainly enjoy the landmark of a 200 post thread however unlikely that may seem.[/QUOTE]

Geez OP don't be so down on yourself. My thread about internet driving distances was always likely to generate a fair amount of responses. It's a subject guaranteed to generate some hot debate and in many was was an easy option. Of course I didn't count on a couple of protagonists like Indacup and SDB1's turgid online battle taking it all the way too 200 posts but still the subject matter made it likely. You on the other hand owe it all to Dorkman and his $600 Scratch wedges taking a subject that would likely have maxed out at about 30-50 posts all the way to 150+ and counting. This deserves congratulations not commiserations.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Hold on here.

I demoed Miruas with my shaft on them, bent to my specs. They are the single best iron I've ever hit. I had a chance to get a set with KBS shafts for $170 a club. Have to tell you, for the price of a couple of OP's collector sets that just collect dust where he keeps his porn hidden from his wife, I had to give it alot of thought.

But the next level of clubs are almost as good and are under $1,000, so how do you justify spending $1,500+ on clubs if they aren't, basically, an addition to your porn collection?

Particularly if you've already blown a ridiculous $1,800 on three wedges and another $1,000 on a jap driver.

All that said, if you think Miura's just another club, you're just whistling Dixie (first English idiom I learned). Even though some misguided souls might try and tell you there are other clubs (like Tourstage - what a laugh) that feel and perform just as well, they don't.

Miura is the pinnacle.[/QUOTE]

If this wasn't such a blatent, ham-fisted attempt at flaming I would maybe consider replying to the content. That said there are lots of choices for poser clubs that look hot but in the end are probably only penis extensions. Probably the best example of this type of club would be KZG ZO's.

[QUOTE=A V Twiss]If you are coming to Wales may I cordially invite you to join me for 18 holes at Oswestry GC if your schedule permits.[/QUOTE]

Thanks dude, but I have no time for golf at all. :-(

It is a whirlwind tour with little rest; not a vacation but a tour of the U.K. ... as much of it in 2 and half weeks as possible.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie]Thanks dude, but I have no time for golf at all. :-(

It is a whirlwind tour with little rest; not a vacation but a tour of the U.K. ... as much of it in 2 and half weeks as possible.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

Enjoy your visit. Britain can be quite beautiful if you get the weather.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]If this wasn't such a blatent, ham-fisted attempt at flaming I would maybe consider replying to the content. That said there are lots of choices for poser clubs that look hot but in the end are probably only penis extensions. Probably the best example of this type of club would be KZG ZO's.[/QUOTE]

I can completely understand the jealousy over my irons. It's cost you probably $100,000 on sets of irons and you still obviously aren't happy.

By the way, if I ever did get a penis extension, I wouldn't be able to drive a normal vehicle.

MD Gold do a full range of wedges, with every possible sole grind, the Norman Drew are in my bag now, 60 of your US bucks each, and Seve uses them, so they must be good. You don't need to spend a fortune just for a custom Grind. Having said that if I had the money I would buy Scratch wedges tomorrow, no question, value is relative to your income, if you can afford it, then who is to judge

How carefully are you reading these links? Before this gets two one sided, read what Ari Techner said

[B]I stated that before earlier in the thread and also posted one of our order forms that specifically states that our clubs are made from 1018CS. [/B]

Fine, thanks for clearing that up

[B]I also received confirmation from our supplier that the steel used in our clubs does come from Japan and that they use a proprietary blend of steel for us that has pretty much the identical metal composition as American 1018CS.
[/B]

Hang on, its now a blend and in fact its 'pretty much' identical, well, Ari, identical is identical, if its "pretty much identical" its not the same. Buy a single malt and then find out its a blend and 'pretty much the same' as a single malt, what would you think?

[B]They have used this exact steel blend in the past for Wilson and Spalding when they requested the use of 1018CS. This is no different than Mizuno who uses Japanese steel that is some form of S25C but uses the term "1025E Pure Select" carbon stee[/B]l.

Oh, thats ok then, everybody pulls off the same marketing gimmick so its all ok! lets all forget about, everyone has doing the same, game over. In fact, Ari uses 'pretty much'the same blend and Mizuno 'some form' of 1018, so all is ok. I wonder how many Mizuno players will love the fact that some joker in the club bar will start telling them they are actually playing Wilsons? Its the same as Saab drivers being told its really a Vauxhall.



[B]The golf industry uses the American classification name for steel as a standard even though nobody produces their clubs in the USA anymore. Everybody uses an Asian steel of some kind but refers to it by the American "10" series carbon steel name with the same carbon content and almost identical metal makeup.[/B]

Ah, right, the crux of this then. Everyone does is it so we the punters have to accept its all ok then.



Its not ok, there has clearly been some blurring around the edges here, no doubt the marketing guys had all this cleared up by their legal people and this is an arguement that could around in circles for years so there is no point.

I have a slightly sour taste in my mouth regardless of how much grief this Chris gets for all of this.

I am not happy with some form of, or pretty much the same as, or everyone uses an US class when its made in Asia, or its forged by a guy who doesn't forge he presses etc etc etc

99% of golf is in the head, and when whats in the head starts to have seeds of doubt the game is gone, time for new sticks, Ari and Muira Gold need to get that in their heads quickly, and before they hang this Chris guy out to dry.

I deal with the legalities of retail sales on a daily basis, professionally, and Ari's post reads like it came straight from his legal team. I am now very much in the 50/50 camp here, still in two minds where my feeling lie.

Ari has at least come out with facts, albeit, I am unsure about how they make me feel about the two brands in question.

Had this Chris used the same terminology, almost idnetical, almost the same as, ablend of etc etc, then maybe he owuldn't be on the back foot so much.

No doubt the lawyers will play a part and will lose and more input from these people because of it.

Thanks for the post Macgregor. Finally gets the thread back on track. It will be interesting to see if this issue develops further, or will fade from the publics attention.

OP I see 200 posts in your future! I think we need to keep this going just for you.....:D

[QUOTE=noshuz]OP I see 200 posts in your future! I think we need to keep this going just for you.....:D[/QUOTE]

You're a nice guy Shuz but things just happen as they will. When a topic runs out of steam it dies quickly. Nearly all high post threads need to re-invent themselves to survive, most can't stay on topic, and after all it is only significant in GR land which may or may not be reality. I haven't quite figured that one out yet. 200 would certainly be something that I would remember, but I fear that just like me this thread is in the twighlight of it's life.

[quote=oldplayer]You're a nice guy Shuz but things just happen as they will. When a topic runs out of steam it dies quickly. Nearly all high post threads need to re-invent themselves to survive, most can't stay on topic, and after all it is only significant in GR land which may or may not be reality. I haven't quite figured that one out yet. 200 would certainly be something that I would remember, but I fear that just like me this thread is in the twighlight of it's life.[/quote]

Fear not my aging brutha! All it takes is some one to say something that gets some ones goat and the fur will start flying again......:cool:
So, just young are you OP?

[QUOTE=noshuz]Fear not my aging brutha! All it takes is some one to say something that gets some ones goat and the fur will start flying again......:cool:
[B]So, just young are you OP?[/B][/QUOTE]

I like to keep the exact number unknown in the interests of GR privacy and maintaining a little mystery. All I can say is I still work for a living, am not on the pension yet and some of my best mates are in their 60's.

[quote=oldplayer]I like to keep the exact number unknown in the interests of GR privacy and maintaining a little mystery. All I can say is I still work for a living, am not on the pension yet and some of my best mates are in their 60's.[/quote]

60's? Oh come on man! That ain't old! You were talking "twilight" and was thinking 70+. I guess it boils down to quality of life and how you live it. Now that I'm pushing 50, I'm really trying to care of myself. Well, ok my wife is. Probably because she/we are convinced that I was put on this earth strictly for her amusement. Example: I pull up in the driveway last week next to her car. No big deal. I hit the garage door opener and it opens. Again, no problem. I start to get out of my truck and the damn door starts to go down and I'm thinking WTF? I don't see her in the garage hitting the button so I think something is wrong. I open my car door and hit the switch again. It goes up. Lock my truck and start walking toward the garage, the damn door starts going down again! WTF!!?? I repeat the above steps until I finally get in the garage, open the door to the house and the alarm starts going off. No one home?? I go back to the garage and out in the driveway, sitting in her car in tears she's laughing so hard is my lovely wife. She had pulled in the driveway just before I pulled up and I didn't see her. That b!tch!!
So as you can see I need to take care of myself so she'll be entertained well into our "twilight" years!:D

[QUOTE=noshuz]60's? Oh come on man! That ain't old! You were talking "twilight" and was thinking 70+. I guess it boils down to quality of life and how you live it. Now that I'm pushing 50, I'm really trying to care of myself. Well, ok my wife is. Probably because she/we are convinced that I was put on this earth strictly for her amusement. Example: I pull up in the driveway last week next to her car. No big deal. I hit the garage door opener and it opens. Again, no problem. I start to get out of my truck and the damn door starts to go down and I'm thinking WTF? I don't see her in the garage hitting the button so I think something is wrong. I open my car door and hit the switch again. It goes up. Lock my truck and start walking toward the garage, the damn door starts going down again! WTF!!?? I repeat the above steps until I finally get in the garage, open the door to the house and the alarm starts going off. No one home?? I go back to the garage and out in the driveway, sitting in her car in tears she's laughing so hard is my lovely wife. She had pulled in the driveway just before I pulled up and I didn't see her. That b!tch!!
So as you can see I need to take care of myself so she'll be entertained well into our "twilight" years!:D[/QUOTE]
I agree with you Shuz, I didn't mean I was at deaths door. I am still active and enjoy good health; but as far a being a golfer my best years are definately behind me.
I work hard at my game for the most part because I just love the game, but I need to do that just to try and maintain the status quo. In the past practicing and working on golf was always with the premise that you could expect improvement, even if was only two steps forward, one step back improvement. Now I am fighting like hell just to hold on to my handicap. That is why sometimes I feel old when I'm competeing against the 35 year olds and why I feel in the twighlight years as a golfer.

I can tell you that I, for one, am a really old f.uck. I realize that means I may not have alot of time left which is why I'm making it a point to berate people more.

[QUOTE=Fred3.1]I can tell you that I, for one, am a really old f.uck. I realize that means I may not have alot of time left which is why I'm making it a point to berate people more.[/QUOTE]

Making up for lost time? Or getting your lifetime quota out of the way just in case of an early demise? :idea:

The test results came back conclusive. A random 1018 wedge, sent in by a reader for testing was found to actually be 1010...much lower quality than the 1020 or 1025, that most of the high end companies like Mizuno are using.

Scratch is starting to look pretty pathetic. An inferior product with a well executed marketing plan can still reap big profits. Its funny to me how many Scratch fanboys are making excuses for Scratch. Face it fellas...you got played.

Oh and the thing about Scratch players not being payed to play their wedges...That is false also...they don't get paid "upfront."

[QUOTE=The Purist]The test results came back conclusive. A random 1018 wedge, sent in by a reader for testing was found to actually be 1010...much lower quality than the 1020 or 1025, that most of the high end companies like Mizuno are using.

Scratch is starting to look pretty pathetic. An inferior product with a well executed marketing plan can still reap big profits. Its funny to me how many Scratch fanboys are making excuses for Scratch. Face it fellas...you got played.

Oh and the thing about Scratch players not being payed to play their wedges...That is false also...they don't get paid "upfront."[/QUOTE]
Sounds like we need to implement an official GR boycott of Scratch.
I have been boycotting Scratch forever, but now I have a legit reason besides the $600 price tag.

[QUOTE=The Purist]The test results came back conclusive. A random 1018 wedge, sent in by a reader for testing was found to actually be 1010...much lower quality than the 1020 or 1025, that most of the high end companies like Mizuno are using.

Scratch is starting to look pretty pathetic. An inferior product with a well executed marketing plan can still reap big profits. Its funny to me how many Scratch fanboys are making excuses for Scratch. Face it fellas...you got played.

Oh and the thing about Scratch players not being payed to play their wedges...That is false also...they don't get paid "upfront."[/QUOTE]

Actually, those "results" Chris at TSG typed out as the official results...however, Ari printed the results from an independent lab in Chicago, actual copies, with contact info to the independent lab if anyone disputed the results.... showing they were 1018 forged.

Chris has had a beef with Scratch ever since they told him he could not get special pricing to gouge his customers with...Hell, look at his site...I see Chris is selling golf caps for $69.95 now.

He needs to be comitted.

[QUOTE=indacup]Actually, those "results" Chris at TSG typed out as the official results...however, Ari printed the results from an independent lab in Chicago, actual copies, with contact info to the independent lab if anyone disputed the results.... showing they were 1018 forged.

Chris has had a beef with Scratch ever since they told him he could not get special pricing to gouge his customers with...Hell, look at his site...I see Chris is selling golf caps for $69.95 now.

He needs to be comitted.[/QUOTE]

Indacup, you have mail . . . . .

[QUOTE=indacup]Actually, those "results" Chris at TSG typed out as the official results...however, Ari printed the results from an independent lab in Chicago, actual copies, with contact info to the independent lab if anyone disputed the results.... showing they were 1018 forged.

Chris has had a beef with Scratch ever since they told him he could not get special pricing to gouge his customers with...Hell, look at his site...I see Chris is selling golf caps for $69.95 now.

He needs to be comitted.[/QUOTE]
Whoopity-Freakin' Do. Scratch hand picked some 1015 wedges from a recent run and coined them "American 1018"...How convenient. The only way to settle this is for Dorkman to send off one of his $600 wedges for independent inspection. I don't always agree with the Dman, but I know he will be upfront and honest about the results.

I did some research and have some good news. It turns out there are Japanese wedges that cost $600 and are available for those who want to be able to play all the shots.

So a Scratch boycott would not prevent any of us from still finding wedge nirvana.

[QUOTE=The Purist]Whoopity-Freakin' Do. Scratch hand picked some 1015 wedges from a recent run and coined them "American 1018"...How convenient. The only way to settle this is for Dorkman to send off one of his $600 wedges for independent inspection. I don't always agree with the Dman, but I know he will be upfront and honest about the results.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. I'll send one of my $1200 wedges, and have a metallurgist cut the head in half to do an analysis of the metal content. Do you happen to be a metallurgist, and would you be kind enough, and willing to do the analysis? It's the least I can do for the board, in the name of intellecutal honesty.......

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Absolutely. I'll send one of my $1200 wedges, and have a metallurgist cut the head in half to do an analysis of the metal content. Do you happen to be a metallurgist, and would you be kind enough, and willing to do the analysis? It's the least I can do for the board, in the name of intellecutal honesty.......[/QUOTE]
I am serious. I am sure Scratch will send you a free replacement if you agree to send your wedge off for an independent analysis....Pick the one with the most worn out grooves. Make sure you take pictures to document the procedure. If the wedges are 1018, then their name will be cleared...if the wedges are not 1018, then they owe you a new wedge that wasn't sold under false advertisement.

1) You know you can afford it.
2) The truth needs to come out.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Absolutely. I'll send one of my $1200 wedges, .....[/QUOTE]


Ok, I'm confused. I thought you spent $1,200 for your driver. Or was is $1,800? That Hopon Driver of yours with the Azkis shaft. It was several grand wasn't it?

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Ok, I'm confused. I thought you spent $1,200 for your driver. Or was is $1,800? That Hopon Driver of yours with the Azkis shaft. It was several grand wasn't it?[/QUOTE]
Haven't you been paying attention?! The wedges are now $1200, the driver is $3600 (but with free shipping and handling), and the diamond encrusted putter is $7500. Get your facts straight!!

[QUOTE=The Purist]I am serious. I am sure Scratch will send you a free replacement if you agree to send your wedge off for an independent analysis....Pick the one with the most worn out grooves. Make sure you take pictures to document the procedure. If the wedges are 1018, then their name will be cleared...if the wedges are not 1018, then they owe you a new wedge that wasn't sold under false advertisement.

1) You know you can afford it.
2) The truth needs to come out.[/QUOTE]

Yeah....this is a vital issue that keeps me up at night, wondering about the metallurgy of some great performing wedges.......yawn.....

As I've said before, I don't care in which country the wedges were forged, I don't care the exact carbon content of the steel, or any similar issues. I do care about the sole grind, because that's where the difference lies. It doesn't take a metallurgist to see the sole grind; it's very obvious.

End of discussion about the metallurgy, from my standpoint. Put it to bed. I paid the extra money for the customization which is more labor intensive than simply cranking out hundreds of identical clubs, a la OEM style. I also paid extra because it's a supply and demand issue; they have a unique product, and I was willing to pay $300 to get it. If you think that was too much, I appreciate your concern, and couldn't care less.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Yeah....this is a vital issue that keeps me up at night, wondering about the metallurgy of some great performing wedges.......yawn.....

As I've said before, I don't care in which country the wedges were forged, I don't care the exact carbon content of the steel, or any similar issues. I do care about the sole grind, because that's where the difference lies. It doesn't take a metallurgist to see the sole grind; it's very obvious.

End of discussion about the metallurgy, from my standpoint. Put it to bed. I paid the extra money for the customization which is more labor intensive than simply cranking out hundreds of identical clubs, a la OEM style. I also paid extra because it's a supply and demand issue; they have a unique product, and I was willing to pay $300 to get it. If you think that was too much, I appreciate your concern, and couldn't care less.[/QUOTE]

But Scratch do claim that their forgings are superior to their competitors. You would like to be able to trust that.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Yeah....this is a vital issue that keeps me up at night, wondering about the metallurgy of some great performing wedges.......yawn.....

As I've said before, I don't care in which country the wedges were forged, I don't care the exact carbon content of the steel, or any similar issues. I do care about the sole grind, because that's where the difference lies. It doesn't take a metallurgist to see the sole grind; it's very obvious.

End of discussion about the metallurgy, from my standpoint. Put it to bed. I paid the extra money for the customization which is more labor intensive than simply cranking out hundreds of identical clubs, a la OEM style. I also paid extra because it's a supply and demand issue; they have a unique product, and I was willing to pay $300 to get it. If you think that was too much, I appreciate your concern, and couldn't care less.[/QUOTE]
How can you be so sure about the custom grind? Maybe they just lied about that too. It's probably just some Adams wedge re-dipped in chrome with Scratch stamped on it.

12 more posts OP.......:cool:

[QUOTE=Horseballs]How can you be so sure about the custom grind? Maybe they just lied about that too. It's probably just some Adams wedge re-dipped in chrome with Scratch stamped on it.[/QUOTE]

Here's a dumb question. As a relative golf novice I don't quite understand how does one custom grind differ from another? Why isn't every wedge cast or forged with less bounce near the heel?

[QUOTE=dorkman53]Absolutely. I'll send one of my $1200 wedges, and have a metallurgist cut the head in half to do an analysis of the metal content. Do you happen to be a metallurgist, and would you be kind enough, and willing to do the analysis? It's the least I can do for the board, in the name of intellecutal honesty.......[/QUOTE]
Your transparent atempt to poke fun at yourself to give us the impression you are not bothered about everyone knowing how much you paid for your wedges isn't fooling anyone. $600 wedge man.

[QUOTE=Home-slicer]Here's a dumb question. As a relative golf novice I don't quite understand how does one custom grind differ from another? Why isn't every wedge cast or forged with less bounce near the heel?[/QUOTE]


It's because golf manufacturers want to get $600 a wedge when someone comes along who'd like to play all the shots.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Your transparent atempt to poke fun at yourself to give us the impression you are not bothered about everyone knowing how much you paid for your wedges isn't fooling anyone. $600 wedge man.[/QUOTE]

Ooooh, you've cut the artery running through his groin and now you are going for the jugular!

[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/0/pengydie.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]Ooooh, you've cut the artery running through his groin and now you are going for the jugular!

[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/0/pengydie.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
If you peel away the layers the real message in this thread is that we should all be playing Ping Eye 2 wedges. If you look hard enough it's obvious.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Your transparent atempt to poke fun at yourself to give us the impression you are not bothered about everyone knowing how much you paid for your wedges isn't fooling anyone. $600 wedge man.[/QUOTE]
You're a genius.....no doubt about it.....

And this $600 wedge bit just gets funnier by the day. By next Tuesday, people will be going to the hospital from fractured ribs laughing at it.....but it needs to be said about another 273 times before it reaches that pinnacle of hilarity.....

I was pretty close to buying all Scratch golf irons and wedges. Than a bell went off in my head. I,m like, wtf am I about to do. Take a deep breath, instead of some sweeper slider grind, learn to take a divot. Learn what wedges work in certain sittuations, and dont work in some. Like my raw haze 56 . It wants a 3/4 to full swing or your gonna hit it thin. But it stops on a dime. My 60 mpr works better in most sand shots, except imbeaded balls. My 52 mpr is better around greens on most lies, and my pw is always a fallback. Scratch sounds like your making a deal with the devil, one of his many knicknames was ol Scratch. But I,m a little supersticious, plus I saved alot of scratch, not buying Scratch

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]Ooooh, you've cut the artery running through his groin and now you are going for the jugular!

[img]http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/0/pengydie.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

Exactly.

I dropped $5400 on a Serotta road bike... But I didn't get ripped off... dropped lots of money on different stuff, like all of us.

Doesn't mean Dorkman is rich or anything, but dropping $600 on a freaking golf wedge pretty much quantifies dorky as one of the two:

1. a retard.
2. got ripped off.

It is a stick with a small piece of metal on the bottom jackass!

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie]Exactly.

I dropped $5400 on a Serotta road bike... But I didn't get ripped off... dropped lots of money on different stuff, like all of us.

Doesn't mean Dorkman is rich or anything, but dropping $600 on a freaking golf wedge pretty much quantifies dorky as one of the two:

1. a retard.
2. got ripped off.

It is a stick with a small piece of metal on the bottom jackass![/QUOTE]
And a bicycle is a few pieces of metal connected to some wheels.....
Brilliant analysis, Spank......
So why did you pay $10,800 for your bike, Spank? You really got ripped off but good......
I know where you could have gotten one for only $5400......

Congrats on the 200 post thread Old Player. Even though this is only post #198. Nice work I really thought this baby had run out of steam at 150 but here we are on the verge of 200.

Obviously GR and D'Man just can't get enough of those custom sole grinds.

Hello.. how many more post? Is it 199 now ?