Saturday Morning in Del Mar

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260725]Did you expect us to help you rationalize? You are so transparently desperate to find ways to justify laziness. Go for it!! You aren't hurting anyone but yourself-- and when they to use the paddles to restart your heart, that will probably be done inside a building, how boring!

Larry[/QUOTE]

It's obvious by this statement that you know as much about exercise as you do about the golf swing. You fail at both.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260727]Same with golf lessons. When you have paid to have someone tell you what you need to learn-- tell and show you the drills and exercises that will get you there, it is a little more difficult to throw that money away by ignoring what he said.[/QUOTE]

You mean like someone taking lessons who suddenly starts fooling around with a wider stance despite his teacher never mentioning it?

[QUOTE=alangbaker;260731]You mean like someone taking lessons who suddenly starts fooling around with a wider stance despite his teacher never mentioning it?[/QUOTE]

There's nothing wrong with experimenting with different golf motions and positions that a teacher did not teach. In fact, the student who does experiment outside the teaching box will improve more quickly than one who follows the teacher's instructions rote like "Simon Says". Remember the old Proverb: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life. And the modern Proverb: Build a man a fire and he will stay warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

[QUOTE=mongrel;260732]There's nothing wrong with experimenting with different golf motions and positions that a teacher did not teach. In fact, the student who does experiment outside the teaching box will improve more quickly than one who follows the teacher's instructions rote like "Simon Says". Remember the old Proverb: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life. And the modern Proverb: Build a man a fire and he will stay warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.[/QUOTE]

I agree... ...but Larry apparently doesn't:

[INDENT][I]"Same with golf lessons. When you have paid to have someone tell you what you need to learn-- tell and show you the drills and exercises that will get you there, it is a little more difficult to throw that money away by ignoring what he said."[/I][/INDENT]

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260721]Sounds good Zo. These new theories aren't really that new but I get your point.

Do you think you were in your target heart rate in those downhill races? If so, did you back off? I get target heart rate for a guideline, but it is the AMA and they are all about safety. You won't find a doctor that prescribes going over the AMA's recommendation. But then I'm not a doctor and haven't had any heart issues. So WTF do I know.

BTW - If your resting heart rate is in the 30's you should be wearing a medical id bracelet. An EMT will pump you full of stimulates if he is treating you and you are unconscious. This could cause some serious complications. This happened to a ex pro biker friend of mine. He was in a car accident and they pumped him up. It could have killed him.[/QUOTE]

At the start of downhill or super g typically guys are 50-70 over resting just from adrenaline and anticipation. During the race you're absolutely at target right away. You either like that feeling or you hate it. I saw guys who could have been really good but couldn't get comfortable enough to concentrate well with that much adrenaline going on and so became slalom or gs specialists. Others of us got addicted to the adrenaline rush. I admit I still am.

As far as AMA guidelines, it's one size fits all. I still probably wouldn't condition over the max but there is a fair amount of play, provided you're in really good shape. I've had stress tests fairly frequently because after 35 it's prudent to see what your heart's doing when it's put under regular, high loads.

My doctor's suggested the medical bracelet. I probably should but just hate to do it due to vanity.

[QUOTE=Pky6471;260709][QUOTE=12sandwich;260686]

Saigon before 1975 was the "Pearl of far east"... very beautiful city, heavily influenced by French... Pky is the name of my HS (Petrus Ký) , a very famous HS which was equivalent of MIT name in the USA, difficult to get in , the yr I took the national test they selected the best of the best (300 out of the best 5000 in VN then) students. Your friend is correct about the beauty of VNmese/French mix or VNmese/USA mix or VNmese/Euro mix, not sure why but that blend turns into very beautiful women (see my attached pix, one could look just like this girl)... and they don't age as fast as Western women. I left SG end of 1970, the goal was to get my Ph.D and return home to become a professor at MIT equivalent college of Engineering, Obviously that did not happen after we lost the war to the north VNmese. I have not been back and don't intend to until they clean up the corrupted government, which probably after I die... If you have $2000 month which is not much in USA then you could live a very comfortable life in VN... Girls are cheap, unfortunately, because they would do everything to help parents and themselves. I know lots of VNmese guys from CA went back to VN, having mistress and ended up divorced wife in USA. 60-yr old guy from USA with decent money ($1000 income) can easily marry 20-25 yr-old girl there... Happen all the time,,, Now you understand why your friend want to go there...[/QUOTE]
It's a shame how a place we can call home, can become so corrupt as to force us to leave.
I called Acapulco Mexico a home for nearly 30 years. The last 10 years have been he'll and I want out. I haven't been back for 7 years. I have a small hotel on the beach since 1985 the movie Salvador with James woods, and James Belushi was made at my hotel. I've met great people from all over the world there. Lived at least 10 years of my life there. All I want now is to sell my place. The crime is so bad now, I can't fathom running a business there anymore, and retiring there is out of the question. It's a shame because I did so much with a landmark built in the 30s built as a hunting lodge, owned by one of Mexico most famous bull fighters Don Manuel Silvetti, purchased from Dona Maria Silvetti who was allowed to live there till she died. I garnished a lot of respect from the locals, cause I turned it into the number one spot to be in that area. Now that means nothing, as the drug cartels control the police and government officials, and life has very little value. Armed guards that you can't trust are needed. When I Leave they steal everything. Now it's on the market for less then half what it's worth. Plus I have a labor lawsuit with the ex managers. My family and that place put all there kids in the best schools, and they all live in other countries. Except the parents, they want to fuk me. I don't get it.

This thread has some interesting stuff and it's good to see Larry effortlessly crack 100 posts again. I was beginning to think he'd lost his touch.

So Poe, when you say that cardio is overrated do you mean you don't bother with cardio full stop or you just factor it into your workout in other ways? e.g. I see guys doing programs with weights at high intensity with relatively light weights that keep the pace on between sets etc creating a cardio effect in the workout.

I'm the same as you in that I hate treadmills, exercycles etc but enjoy weight training. When I was younger I needed cardio fitness for the sports that I played so I ran but was never a great runner. Now I believe I need to incorporate some cardio into my weekly routine but I much prefer to separate the two disciplines, i.e. strength training, cardio on separate days. I find mixing the two counter productive and I don't enjoy training like that.

What are you suggesting?

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260739]This thread has some interesting stuff and it's good to see Larry effortlessly crack 100 posts again. I was beginning to think he'd lost his touch.

So Poe, when you say that cardio is overrated do you mean you don't bother with cardio full stop or you just factor it into your workout in other ways? e.g. I see guys doing programs with weights at high intensity with relatively light weights that keep the pace on between sets etc creating a cardio effect in the workout.

I'm the same as you in that I hate treadmills, exercycles etc but enjoy weight training. When I was younger I needed cardio fitness for the sports that I played so I ran but was never a great runner. Now I believe I need to incorporate some cardio into my weekly routine but I much prefer to separate the two disciplines, i.e. strength training, cardio on separate days. I find mixing the two counter productive and I don't enjoy training like that.

What are you suggesting?[/QUOTE]

No, I'm saying that long intervals of low to moderate intensity aerobic training isn't the only way to improve your cardio system. It's a safe way but not the only way. I do mostly high intensity style of training. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training[/URL].

I basically do anaerobic exercises, or strength training, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise"][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise[/URL][/URL] in rapid succession to keep my heart rate high. There's different ways to achieve this. You can do ladders, supersets, tabatas, etc. You just want the intensity high enough to keep your heart rate going. Most of my exercises are large muscle group exercises. Squats, bench, pull ups, chops & lifts, burpies, kettlebell swings, spidermans with a versa slide, lunges, etc. You get the idea. It's very easy to get the heart rate up and keep it up. It's also can be very embarrassing to do in a gym. For instance, I did legs last night. The last exercise I did was jump squats without any weight, 4 minute tabata ([URL="http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_tabata_method"]http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_tabata_method[/URL]). By the last set I was grunting and jumping with all my strength and had a vertical of about 6".

If I'm doing strength sets with low reps, i'll also do a complementary easy but more aerobic to get the heart rate up. I'll usually do a strength set followed by an easier aerobic set with no rest. Then rest or 30 seconds then start again. I usually only do 2 sets max of any one exercise but I do them to failure.

You get the idea. Long and short, I don't do much aerobic in the winter. When the summer roles around I'm naturally attracted to getting out for a run with the dog. I just hate indoor mindless aerobic exercises.

BTW - you should check out that 50 minute video. You can skip the repeat stuff between the actually exercises. Those two PT's are a well respected in the US. What exactly was your back injury anyway?

[QUOTE=12sandwich;260741][QUOTE=Pky6471;260709]
It's a shame how a place we can call home, can become so corrupt as to force us to leave.
I called Acapulco Mexico a home for nearly 30 years. The last 10 years have been he'll and I want out. I haven't been back for 7 years. I have a small hotel on the beach since 1985 the movie Salvador with James woods, and James Belushi was made at my hotel. I've met great people from all over the world there. Lived at least 10 years of my life there. All I want now is to sell my place. The crime is so bad now, I can't fathom running a business there anymore, and retiring there is out of the question. It's a shame because I did so much with a landmark built in the 30s built as a hunting lodge, owned by one of Mexico most famous bull fighters Don Manuel Silvetti, purchased from Dona Maria Silvetti who was allowed to live there till she died. I garnished a lot of respect from the locals, cause I turned it into the number one spot to be in that area. Now that means nothing, as the drug cartels control the police and government officials, and life has very little value. Armed guards that you can't trust are needed. When I Leave they steal everything. Now it's on the market for less then half what it's worth. Plus I have a labor lawsuit with the ex managers. My family and that place put all there kids in the best schools, and they all live in other countries. Except the parents, they want to fuk me. I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

If that were me, I think I'd try to make a deal with the folks known in Latin America as the Garcias to buy your hotel. You know, the folks whose organization is headquartered in Langley, Virginia. They'd know how to deal with the riff-raff trying to screw you.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260766]No, I'm saying that long intervals of low to moderate intensity aerobic training isn't the only way to improve your cardio system. It's a safe way but not the only way. I do mostly high intensity style of training. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training[/URL].

I basically do anaerobic exercises, or strength training, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise"][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise[/URL][/URL] in rapid succession to keep my heart rate high. There's different ways to achieve this. You can do ladders, supersets, tabatas, etc. You just want the intensity high enough to keep your heart rate going. Most of my exercises are large muscle group exercises. Squats, bench, pull ups, chops & lifts, burpies, kettlebell swings, spidermans with a versa slide, lunges, etc. You get the idea. It's very easy to get the heart rate up and keep it up. It's also can be very embarrassing to do in a gym. For instance, I did legs last night. The last exercise I did was jump squats without any weight, 4 minute tabata ([URL="http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_tabata_method"]http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_tabata_method[/URL]). By the last set I was grunting and jumping with all my strength and had a vertical of about 6".

If I'm doing strength sets with low reps, i'll also do a complementary easy but more aerobic to get the heart rate up. I'll usually do a strength set followed by an easier aerobic set with no rest. Then rest or 30 seconds then start again. I usually only do 2 sets max of any one exercise but I do them to failure.

You get the idea. Long and short, I don't do much aerobic in the winter. When the summer roles around I'm naturally attracted to getting out for a run with the dog.[B] I just hate indoor mindless aerobic exercises. [/B]

BTW - you should check out that 50 minute video. You can skip the repeat stuff between the actually exercises. Those two PT's are a well respected in the US. What exactly was your back injury anyway?[/QUOTE]

Me too, although an iPod can help pass the time to a certain extent.

My back problems were brought on by my crappy golf swing last summer. I basically let the club get too far behind me in the backswing and I get stuck on the way down leading to big blocks right. To counter this I was forcing myself to "get through the shot" but I was doing it in a way that put an unnatural strain on my back as I twisted through the shot. It's not major damage but some muscle damage in the deep tissue muscles that support the spine. I have been going to pilates and they have been giving me stretches and exercises to mobilise the spine and free up the muscles as well as massage. I have other back pain/stiffness from working at a desk job/poor posture for the past 20 years but I just have to put up with that. The damage I did last summer isn't getting any worse and the pain is never more than 2-3 out of 10. It's more of a nuisance but doesn't stop me doing anything. I hope the new exercise regime will help.

And I'll definitely watch that 50 min video. I just didn't have time the other morning at work! :)

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260772]Me too, although an iPod can help pass the time to a certain extent.

My back problems were brought on by my crappy golf swing last summer. I basically let the club get too far behind me in the backswing and I get stuck on the way down leading to big blocks right. To counter this I was forcing myself to "get through the shot" but I was doing it in a way that put an unnatural strain on my back as I twisted through the shot. It's not major damage but some muscle damage in the deep tissue muscles that support the spine. I have been going to pilates and they have been giving me stretches and exercises to mobilise the spine and free up the muscles as well as massage. I have other back pain/stiffness from working at a desk job/poor posture for the past 20 years but I just have to put up with that. The damage I did last summer isn't getting any worse and the pain is never more than 2-3 out of 10. It's more of a nuisance but doesn't stop me doing anything. I hope the new exercise regime will help.

And I'll definitely watch that 50 min video. I just didn't have time the other morning at work! :)[/QUOTE]

You and every other desk jockey should read these articles. They are written by the same pt as the other video and contribute to this site often.[URL="http://www.google.com/cse?cx=016420786931182441572%3Akswwmllusns&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=neanderthal+no+more&siteurl=www.t-nation.com%252F&ad=n9&num=10&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-nation.com%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fcx%3D016420786931182441572%253Akswwmllusns%26cof%3DFORID%253A10%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dneanderthal%2Bno%2Bmore%26siteurl%3Dwww.t-nation.com%25252F#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=neanderthal%20no%20more&gsc.page=1"]http://www.google.com/cse?cx=016420786931182441572%3Akswwmllusns&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=neanderthal+no+more&siteurl=www.t-nation.com%252F&ad=n9&num=10&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-nation.com%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fcx%3D016420786931182441572%253Akswwmllusns%26cof%3DFORID%253A10%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dneanderthal%2Bno%2Bmore%26siteurl%3Dwww.t-nation.com%25252F#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=neanderthal%20no%20more&gsc.page=1[/URL]

[QUOTE=mongrel;260769][QUOTE=12sandwich;260741]

If that were me, I think I'd try to make a deal with the folks known in Latin America as the Garcias to buy your hotel. You know, the folks whose organization is headquartered in Langley, Virginia. They'd know how to deal with the riff-raff trying to screw you.[/
Thank god for the good ol USA

There is so much ignorance in this thread. If I ever find the time I will reply to all the retards in an angry manner. Some good information coming from Lorenzo.

Being in San Francisco I am currently running up REAL stairs @ssholes; I did 553 earlier today as we have hills and we have REAL stairs jackasses.

Example:

[IMG]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/102044245_77ee772534.jpg?v=0[/IMG]

I am 42, and I was brainwashed with the "Muscle and Fitness" magazines in my youth. Body weight exercises is where it is at so we can use our bodies.

I climb stairs and run in the wet and dry sand at the beach, both low impact, but I am now playing handball but running, handball etc. actually improve the knees; I am not going to go into that, and why many get injured cuz they are retarded.

Oh I also will post a 1 second clip of me hitting a tennis ball at a wall and having it fly 20 feet to the left of me soon.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie;260780]There is so much ignorance in this thread. If I ever find the time I will reply to all the retards in an angry manner. Some good information coming from Lorenzo.

Being in San Francisco I am currently running up REAL stairs @ssholes; I did 553 earlier today as we have hills and we have REAL stairs jackasses.

Example:

[IMG]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/102044245_77ee772534.jpg?v=0[/IMG]

I am 42, and I was brainwashed with the "Muscle and Fitness" magazines in my youth. Body weight exercises is where it is at so we can use our bodies.

I climb stairs and run in the wet and dry sand at the beach, both low impact, but I am now playing handball but running, handball etc. actually improve the knees; I am not going to go into that, and why many get injured cuz they are retarded.

Oh I also will post a 1 second clip of me hitting a tennis ball at a wall and having it fly 20 feet to the left of me soon.[/QUOTE]

Bodyweight exercises are definitely the go. Pull ups are just about the best upper body syrength exercise there is. There is a reason armed forces only do bodyweight stuff. They want functionally strong fit soldiers, not muscle heads who cant lift their weight and get injured all the time.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;260781]Bodyweight exercises are definitely the go. Pull ups are just about the best upper body syrength exercise there is. There is a reason armed forces only do bodyweight stuff. They want functionally strong fit soldiers, not muscle heads who cant lift their weight and get injured all the time.[/QUOTE]

True true... Real talk.

Wish I was taught when I was young but I had a great run up in my youth and had a great strong youth; still strong but wish I knew the importance of body weight.

You probably have seen this, but check these jokers out; really strong; I just googled calisthenics (you can too) and check out what these men are doing;

Real strength and we can get it into our 70's:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T9QeitaeBrY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


It is all about real world strength. Be a man, son.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie;260780]There is so much ignorance in this thread. If I ever find the time I will reply to all the retards in an angry manner. Some good information coming from Lorenzo.

Being in San Francisco I am currently running up REAL stairs @ssholes; I did 553 earlier today as we have hills and we have REAL stairs jackasses.

Example:

[IMG]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/102044245_77ee772534.jpg?v=0[/IMG]

I am 42, and I was brainwashed with the "Muscle and Fitness" magazines in my youth. Body weight exercises is where it is at so we can use our bodies.

I climb stairs and run in the wet and dry sand at the beach, both low impact, but I am now playing handball but running, handball etc. actually improve the knees; I am not going to go into that, and why many get injured cuz they are retarded.

Oh I also will post a 1 second clip of me hitting a tennis ball at a wall and having it fly 20 feet to the left of me soon.[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. I never took you as a muscle and fitness type. I've picked the mag up, wanting it to be someting I could gleam information from, but I was always left disappointed. I've never bought one.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260783]That's interesting. I never took you as a muscle and fitness type. I've picked the mag up, wanting it to be someting I could gleam information from, but I was always left disappointed. I've never bought one.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding? Spank has always talked about powerlifting and we all know he has a fetish for great calves. The calves maketh the man.

[QUOTE=spanqdoggie;260782]True true... Real talk.

Wish I was taught when I was young but I had a great run up in my youth and had a great strong youth; still strong but wish I knew the importance of body weight.

You probably have seen this, but check these jokers out; really strong; I just googled calisthenics (you can too) and check out what these men are doing;

Real strength and we can get it into our 70's:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/T9QeitaeBrY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


It is all about real world strength. Be a man, son.[/QUOTE]
You sure can get strong if you have all day to train like these guys probably do. Every guy in this clip would kick just about anyone's arse without raising a sweat too. They might not be huge, but they would throw roid heads twice their size around like rag dolls. These guys would be strong all over. What they''re doing is starting to catch on too. In Sydney we have a famous beach called Bondi which has a set of bars near the beach, and any time of the day you go down there you will see at least 10 guys working out. I think bodyweight exercise is statrting to catch on. Lifting weights is not the oly way to build an impressive physique.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260785]Are you kidding? Spank has always talked about powerlifting and we all know he has a fetish for great calves. The calves maketh the man.[/QUOTE]

Yah, I know that. I was specifically referring to the magazine.

[QUOTE=mongrel;260732]There's nothing wrong with experimenting with different golf motions and positions that a teacher did not teach. In fact, the student who does experiment outside the teaching box will improve more quickly than one who follows the teacher's instructions rote like "Simon Says". Remember the old Proverb: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life. And the modern Proverb: Build a man a fire and he will stay warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.[/QUOTE]

Right on. And when I think I have stumbled upon something that works on the range, I walk over and show it to Kevin. Several times he has shot my idea down-- pointing out the potential problems, that it might restrict the backswing or whatever. So my personal modifications must always be sound fundamentally.

But he likes the wider stance for some of his students who can get themselves forward in time to accelerate through--exactly like we see Allen Doyle doing. Since the wider stance-- along with setting up with a forward weight bias like Hogan and Moe and starting my shift AS I take it back, works so well, he likes it. He warned me against turning hips or shoulders toward the target at setup... because power in the golf swing derives from our hips leading our shoulders in the downswing (the X factor). Your hips must turn back with the shoulders before you can throw your back knee toward the target to lead the downswing to create the X-factor separation that creates power.

Anyhow it works. I like the crisp contact and the long divots-- and the straight ball flight. I can look at a target out there 160+ and be pretty sure I can hit it with a 6i. And the need for that shot occurs quite often as I play the white tees, which is normal for 70+ year olds, even former touring pros.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260804]Right on. And when I think I have stumbled upon something that works on the range, I walk over and show it to Kevin. Several times he has shot my idea down-- pointing out the potential problems, that it might restrict the backswing or whatever. So my personal modifications must always be sound fundamentally. [/quote]

Funny... ...because you've "stumbled" onto a whole lot of things you've subsequently dubbed "the secret"...

...which you've then abandoned.

So which is it: were they "sound fundamentally" or were you just talking out of your nether regions?

[quote]But he likes the wider stance for some of his students who can get themselves forward in time to accelerate through--exactly like we see Allen Doyle doing.[/quote]

He likes it, but he needed genius Larry to suggest it to him? If he likes it, why wasn't he teaching it to you?

[quote]Since the wider stance-- along with setting up with a forward weight bias like Hogan and Moe and starting my shift AS I take it back, works so well, he likes it. He warned me against turning hips or shoulders toward the target at setup... because power in the golf swing derives from our hips leading our shoulders in the downswing (the X factor). Your hips must turn back with the shoulders before you can throw your back knee toward the target to lead the downswing to create the X-factor separation that creates power.

Anyhow it works. I like the crisp contact and the long divots-- and the straight ball flight. I can look at a target out there 160+ and be pretty sure I can hit it with a 6i. And the need for that shot occurs quite often as I play the white tees, which is normal for 70+ year olds, even former touring pros. [/QUOTE]

How much roll on a hard pan driving range does it take for you to hit your 6 iron "160+", Larry? Or are you perhaps measuring your distances in feet now?

:)

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;260787]You sure can get strong if you have all day to train like these guys probably do. Every guy in this clip would kick just about anyone's arse without raising a sweat too. They might not be huge, but they would throw roid heads twice their size around like rag dolls. These guys would be strong all over. What they''re doing is starting to catch on too. In Sydney we have a famous beach called Bondi which has a set of bars near the beach, and any time of the day you go down there you will see at least 10 guys working out. I think bodyweight exercise is statrting to catch on. Lifting weights is not the oly way to build an impressive physique.[/QUOTE]

I could only watch so much with that soundtrack. What they're doing looks like gymnastics. Sure they're strong but as you said you'd need to train all day to get like that. Weights are perfect for those of us that can only spare 45-60 minutes 3 times a week or so. Sure calisthenics are good but it's pretty hard to get a complete body workout without using some weights. Chin ups for example are fantastic but how many of them can most of us really do? As a kid I could do plenty but now I'd probably struggle to do 3.

In all of my years working on a farm and working construction, have seen guys that weren't built like that but would probably tear their heads off and crap down their necks. IMO, they are all pretty boys. I'm not built like that and glad that I'm not. Lean and mean so it ain't jealousy. But in the real world, working with their hands and body, bet most of them couldn't cut it.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260829]I could only watch so much with that soundtrack. What they're doing looks like gymnastics. Sure they're strong but as you said you'd need to train all day to get like that. Weights are perfect for those of us that can only spare 45-60 minutes 3 times a week or so. Sure calisthenics are good but it's pretty hard to get a complete body workout without using some weights. Chin ups for example are fantastic but how many of them can most of us really do? As a kid I could do plenty but now I'd probably struggle to do 3.[/QUOTE]

Pull ups are like anything else. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Plus you can always do negatives or chair-assisted pull-ups to get started.

[QUOTE=alangbaker;260828]Funny... ...because you've "stumbled" onto a whole lot of things you've subsequently dubbed "the secret"...

...which you've then abandoned.

So which is it: were they "sound fundamentally" or were you just talking out of your nether regions?



He likes it, but he needed genius Larry to suggest it to him? If he likes it, why wasn't he teaching it to you?





How much roll on a hard pan driving range does it take for you to hit your 6 iron "160+", Larry? Or are you perhaps measuring your distances in feet now?

:)[/QUOTE]


[IMG]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/motorhead069/AndHereWeGo.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Horseballs;260831]Pull ups are like anything else. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Plus you can always do negatives or chair-assisted pull-ups to get started.[/QUOTE]

Kiwi would opt for the push cart equivalent so probably a mini trampoline.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260835]Kiwi would opt for the push cart equivalent so probably a mini trampoline.[/QUOTE]

So enlighten us oh great one. How many unassisted can the Italian Stallion do?

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260836]So enlighten us oh great one. How many unassisted can the Italian Stallion do?[/QUOTE]

As many as it takes to satisfy her.

[QUOTE=oldplayer;260839]As many as it takes to satisfy her.[/QUOTE]



It's what keeps me going. We're all captives of our own egos.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260842]It's what keeps me going. We're all captives of our own egos.[/QUOTE]

Easy for you to brag Zo but here is some suggested reading for some of our more pu$$y whipped regulars such as NAH

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4kMSb.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260845]Easy for you to brag Zo but here is some suggested reading for some of our more pu$$y whipped regulars such as NAH

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4kMSb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Thanks, K. This gets sent to a married buddy of mine, next time he can't make it out.

This is one badaass thread!

Running isn't bad for your knees and joints. Sitting on the couch for 6 hours a day eating oreo cookies and watching reality tv is bad for your knees. Obesity, Diabetes, Arthritis, and Knee problems are all linked together.

[QUOTE=The Purist;260855]This is one badaass thread!

Running isn't bad for your knees and joints. Sitting on the couch for 6 hours a day eating oreo cookies and watching reality tv is bad for your knees. Obesity, Diabetes, Arthritis, and Knee problems are all linked together.[/QUOTE]

The newest link is statins, like lipitor, and diabetes type 2. New study reported women on statins are 48% more likely to get type 2 diabetes. Sounds interesting at face value but I'm wondering if it is the fact that 1) they are out of shape and develop insulin resistance which causes an increase of LDL. 2) doctors says "take a pill. It will cure your LDL issue." So the patient never fixes the causes, being lack of exercise and poor diet.

On the running, doing any movement over and over increases your risk of failure. That's if you are running in good form. I'm sure you see people running and just cringe knowing their form is going to cause an injury. Or people running with injuries. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy running but I still believe it's better to mix things up. Even bikers get bad hips. There's next to no impact biking... I hate machines. I hate them for strength training as well.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260863]The newest link is statins, like lipitor, and diabetes type 2. New study reported women on statins are 48% more likely to get type 2 diabetes. Sounds interesting at face value but I'm wondering if it is the fact that 1) they are out of shape and develop insulin resistance which causes an increase of LDL. 2) doctors says "take a pill. It will cure your LDL issue." So the patient never fixes the causes, being lack of exercise and poor diet.

On the running, doing any movement over and over increases your risk of failure. That's if you are running in good form. I'm sure you see people running and just cringe knowing their form is going to cause an injury. Or people running with injuries. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy running but I still believe it's better to mix things up. Even bikers get bad hips. There's next to no impact biking... I hate machines. I hate them for strength training as well.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a link for the study? I've been on statins currently . Without it my levels weren't that bad but they've seemed to be pretty much a panacea provided you get tested periodically for liver function.

I like biking, particularly the mountain climbs around here but I'm suspicious as to its effect on the hips long term. Just seems the way you get leverage isn't great.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260863]The newest link is statins, like lipitor, and diabetes type 2. New study reported women on statins are 48% more likely to get type 2 diabetes. Sounds interesting at face value but I'm wondering if it is the fact that 1) they are out of shape and develop insulin resistance which causes an increase of LDL. 2) doctors says "take a pill. It will cure your LDL issue." So the patient never fixes the causes, being lack of exercise and poor diet.

On the running, doing any movement over and over increases your risk of failure. That's if you are running in good form. I'm sure you see people running and just cringe knowing their form is going to cause an injury. Or people running with injuries. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy running but I still believe it's better to mix things up. Even bikers get bad hips. There's next to no impact biking... I hate machines. I hate them for strength training as well.[/QUOTE]
Its not so much the repetitive movements that do the damage...its increasing the amount or force of the movements too quickly.

Its usually the "new" runners who get injured the most...or runner's that have recently started increasing their training. They start running slowly & can only manage short distances. The heart, lungs, and muscles start to adapt rather quickly and these new runners are able to run longer and faster...which has a greater amount of impact per step and more impacts per session. What doesn't develop as quickly are the joints and tendons...and that is the cause of most running injuries.

[QUOTE=The Purist;260871]Its not so much the repetitive movements that do the damage...its increasing the amount or force of the movements too quickly.

Its usually the "new" runners who get injured the most...or runner's that have recently started increasing their training. They start running slowly & can only manage short distances. The heart, lungs, and muscles start to adapt rather quickly and these new runners are able to run longer and faster...which has a greater amount of impact per step and more impacts per session. What doesn't develop as quickly are the joints and tendons...and that is the cause of most running injuries.[/QUOTE]

That and asymmetry of both strength and flexibility. For example, hips and shoulders are often damaged. Check out the neanderthal link I posted. If your hips or shoulders are tight, mostly anterior tightness from our desk jobs, they don't move correctly and can increase wear of the socket or head.

My lower back issues were due to asymmetry issues of my glutes and becoming quad dominant (This is one reason why the barefoot running method is so appealing to me. You can't run quad dominant barefoot, at least no easily.). I'm still working on fixing the imbalances 6 months later but it's interesting how my movement is changing. The brain is incredibly adapt to making adjustments to overcome injury. Pretty some you're tearing yourself apart.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260876]That and asymmetry of both strength and flexibility. For example, hips and shoulders are often damaged. Check out the neanderthal link I posted. If your hips or shoulders are tight, mostly anterior tightness from our desk jobs, they don't move correctly and can increase wear of the socket or head.

My lower back issues were due to asymmetry issues of my glutes and becoming quad dominant (This is one reason why the barefoot running method is so appealing to me. You can't run quad dominant barefoot, at least no easily.). I'm still working on fixing the imbalances 6 months later but it's interesting how my movement is changing. The brain is incredibly adapt to making adjustments to overcome injury. Pretty some you're tearing yourself apart.[/QUOTE]

I probably stretch the muscles around the hips more than anything else. If I'm lazy it's all I'll stretch. I know too many guys that end up with hip replacement too young and evidence suggests it's tightness around the hip area during use.

I'd love to get off the elliptical more but those who say running and biking are ok long term are just fooling themselves.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260867]Do you have a link for the study? I've been on statins currently . Without it my levels weren't that bad but they've seemed to be pretty much a panacea provided you get tested periodically for liver function.

I like biking, particularly the mountain climbs around here but I'm suspicious as to its effect on the hips long term. Just seems the way you get leverage isn't great.[/QUOTE]

No link to the study. Here's ABC's article on the study. Good news is it only showed up in women. I'm always suspect on these findings but there's very few drugs that don't have a down side.

[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesRiskFactors/wireStory/study-statins-linked-small-diabetes-risk-15327128#.TxBshW9fiVF"]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesRiskFactors/wireStory/study-statins-linked-small-diabetes-risk-15327128#.TxBshW9fiVF[/URL]

I was tested a couple of years ago and had high normal LDL and my doc wanted to put me on statins. He barely talked to me about exercise or diet. I kicked him to the curb. My new doc said that was rediculous and I started watching what I ate and started taking fish oil, exercising, etc. I'm now in an acceptable range. I, like you, was concerned on the long term effects of taking drugs.

Not very related to drugs but I read this recently and I found it enlightening. I've never heard LDL and HDL described in this way so concisely. I hate cut and past shiat on forums but you might find it interesting.

[B]CHOLESTEROL (BLOOD LIPID) LEVELS [/B]
[I]High-intensity strength training has been shown to have a positive effect on cholesterol levels, improving blood lipid profiles after only a few weeks of strength-training exercise.5 To a large extent, insulin plays a role here as well, as it is a pro-inflammatory hormone, which, in combination with high levels of glucose, results in more oxidative damage to tissue. A generalized inflammatory state is created, marked by a lot of inflammation on the walls of the blood vessels, which now must be repaired. Cholesterol is a ubiquitous hormone within the body, the equivalent of biologic mortar or spackle; when an inflammatory condition develops on the blood vessel wall, that inflammation is patched over with cholesterol.

Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) basically refer to the density of the protein that is carrying the cholesterol. To understand how these two lipoproteins operate, one has to examine how blood flows. The flow rate in the central portion of a vessel is slightly higher than the flow rate at its periphery. Just as leaves in a river tend to flow out to the edges of the banks, metabolites of lower density tend to behave that way in the bloodstream. Consequently, when the body needs to take cholesterol out to the blood vessel walls to mortar up an inflamed area, it is going to deploy LDL cholesterol to patch the inflammatory sites.

If, on the other hand, the body needs to bring cholesterol back to the liver for processing, this is best accomplished through the central circulation, where it’s not going to stick to the cell walls. HDLcholesterol, therefore, is deployed in such situations, bringing any circulating insulin to the central circulation for processing into other elements, including the synthesis of hormones. In this instance, your body requires a high-density lipoprotein to carry the cholesterol through the central portion of the blood vessel, rather than its periphery. So, the ratio of HDL to LDL is largely an indirect marker of the body’s generalized inflammatory state. Restoring insulin sensitivity decreases that systemic inflammatory state, which results in a less-generalized inflammation of blood vessel walls, thus requiring less need for cholesterol to be transported for this purpose on LDL molecules.

Viewed in this light, high cholesterol levels are really a symptom, not a cause of cardiovascular disease. Not understanding this fact, a lot of people take medicine to try to lower their LDL cholesterol levels artificially. Attempting to control through medication the enzymes that produce elevated cholesterol is analogous to playing pool with a rope. The practical course is to treat the cause of the elevated cholesterol levels by correcting the underlying cellular inflammation, so that the stimulus to produce the LDL is weaker and the stimulus to produce the HDL is stronger. Those levels are basically indirect markers, or downstream effects, of your generalized inflammatory state, which is largely related to the amount of circulating glucose and insulin in the body.

Diet also plays a role here, of course. Eating a proper diet is a giant first step in correcting the whole metabolic syndrome. Consuming a hunter-gatherer type of diet that is relatively restricted in carbohydrates and exceedingly restricted in refined carbohydrates, which cause high spikes in glucose and insulin, can have a profound effect on all of these parameters. The effect derives from yourfavoring glucagon over insulin, but diet alone is not sufficient, because glucagon works on a nonamplifying mechanism, whereby one molecule of glucagon will affect one molecule of glucose.

The true remedy is, once again, high-intensity exercise. Only it has a significant effect on insulin sensitivity, due to the amplification cascade it produces, which aggressively empties glycogen out of the muscles, creating a situation in which enhanced insulin sensitivity becomes a necessity. You have to work out at a level high enough to prompt the glycolytic cells to empty their stores of glycogen. You’re not going to accomplish this by diet alone, by walking on a treadmill, or by a steady-state jog. That’s because for any given level of glucose ingested, the amount of insulin that has to be secreted to resolve the situation is much, much lower.[/I]

Doug McGuff MD, John R.Little; (2008-12-17). Body by Science : A Research Based Program to Get the Results You Want in 12 Minutes a Week (p. 106). McGraw-Hill. Kindle Edition.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260884]No link to the study. Here's ABC's article on the study. Good news is it only showed up in women. I'm always suspect on these findings but there's very few drugs that don't have a down side.

[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesRiskFactors/wireStory/study-statins-linked-small-diabetes-risk-15327128#.TxBshW9fiVF"]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesRiskFactors/wireStory/study-statins-linked-small-diabetes-risk-15327128#.TxBshW9fiVF[/URL]

[B]I was tested a couple of years ago and had high normal LDL and my doc wanted to put me on statins. He barely talked to me about exercise or diet. I kicked him to the curb[/B]. My new doc said that was rediculous and I started watching what I ate and started taking fish oil, exercising, etc. I'm now in an acceptable range. I, like you, was concerned on the long term effects of taking drugs.

Not very related to drugs but I read this recently and I found it enlightening. I've never heard LDL and HDL described in this way so concisely. I hate cut and past shiat on forums but you might find it interesting.

[B]CHOLESTEROL (BLOOD LIPID) LEVELS [/B]
[I]High-intensity strength training has been shown to have a positive effect on cholesterol levels, improving blood lipid profiles after only a few weeks of strength-training exercise.5 To a large extent, insulin plays a role here as well, as it is a pro-inflammatory hormone, which, in combination with high levels of glucose, results in more oxidative damage to tissue. A generalized inflammatory state is created, marked by a lot of inflammation on the walls of the blood vessels, which now must be repaired. Cholesterol is a ubiquitous hormone within the body, the equivalent of biologic mortar or spackle; when an inflammatory condition develops on the blood vessel wall, that inflammation is patched over with cholesterol.

Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) basically refer to the density of the protein that is carrying the cholesterol. To understand how these two lipoproteins operate, one has to examine how blood flows. The flow rate in the central portion of a vessel is slightly higher than the flow rate at its periphery. Just as leaves in a river tend to flow out to the edges of the banks, metabolites of lower density tend to behave that way in the bloodstream. Consequently, when the body needs to take cholesterol out to the blood vessel walls to mortar up an inflamed area, it is going to deploy LDL cholesterol to patch the inflammatory sites.

If, on the other hand, the body needs to bring cholesterol back to the liver for processing, this is best accomplished through the central circulation, where it’s not going to stick to the cell walls. HDLcholesterol, therefore, is deployed in such situations, bringing any circulating insulin to the central circulation for processing into other elements, including the synthesis of hormones. In this instance, your body requires a high-density lipoprotein to carry the cholesterol through the central portion of the blood vessel, rather than its periphery. So, the ratio of HDL to LDL is largely an indirect marker of the body’s generalized inflammatory state. Restoring insulin sensitivity decreases that systemic inflammatory state, which results in a less-generalized inflammation of blood vessel walls, thus requiring less need for cholesterol to be transported for this purpose on LDL molecules.

Viewed in this light, high cholesterol levels are really a symptom, not a cause of cardiovascular disease. Not understanding this fact, a lot of people take medicine to try to lower their LDL cholesterol levels artificially. Attempting to control through medication the enzymes that produce elevated cholesterol is analogous to playing pool with a rope. The practical course is to treat the cause of the elevated cholesterol levels by correcting the underlying cellular inflammation, so that the stimulus to produce the LDL is weaker and the stimulus to produce the HDL is stronger. Those levels are basically indirect markers, or downstream effects, of your generalized inflammatory state, which is largely related to the amount of circulating glucose and insulin in the body.

Diet also plays a role here, of course. Eating a proper diet is a giant first step in correcting the whole metabolic syndrome. Consuming a hunter-gatherer type of diet that is relatively restricted in carbohydrates and exceedingly restricted in refined carbohydrates, which cause high spikes in glucose and insulin, can have a profound effect on all of these parameters. The effect derives from yourfavoring glucagon over insulin, but diet alone is not sufficient, because glucagon works on a nonamplifying mechanism, whereby one molecule of glucagon will affect one molecule of glucose.

The true remedy is, once again, high-intensity exercise. Only it has a significant effect on insulin sensitivity, due to the amplification cascade it produces, which aggressively empties glycogen out of the muscles, creating a situation in which enhanced insulin sensitivity becomes a necessity. You have to work out at a level high enough to prompt the glycolytic cells to empty their stores of glycogen. You’re not going to accomplish this by diet alone, by walking on a treadmill, or by a steady-state jog. That’s because for any given level of glucose ingested, the amount of insulin that has to be secreted to resolve the situation is much, much lower.[/I]

Doug McGuff MD, John R.Little; (2008-12-17). Body by Science : A Research Based Program to Get the Results You Want in 12 Minutes a Week (p. 106). McGraw-Hill. Kindle Edition.[/QUOTE]

Good article Poe. My doctor also wanted to start me on statins but there was no way I was popping a pill to artificially bring down a reading the value of which is subject to debate. I read up on this stuff years ago and the accepted wisdom that most doctors subscribe to is a load of baloney. She also wanted me to cut down on red meat, eggs, eat margarine instead of butter :rolleyes: , and basically follow a low fat diet. No mention of cutting processed carbohydrates. The dietary cholesterol in red meat or eggs plays very little part in your cholesterol levels. Your body makes 80% of the cholesterol in response to the food you are eating and starchy, processed carbohydrates raise insulin levels and spark the inflammation process described above. That's what causes high cholesterol, not eating foods high in cholesterol.

Genes play a big role too and fortunately for me there is no history of heart disease in my family.

Interesting about the high intensity exercise. I'll remember that at the gym his morning. :)

And I probably should cut my beer intake. :(

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260884]No link to the study. Here's ABC's article on the study. Good news is it only showed up in women. I'm always suspect on these findings but there's very few drugs that don't have a down side.

[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesRiskFactors/wireStory/study-statins-linked-small-diabetes-risk-15327128#.TxBshW9fiVF[/URL]

I was tested a couple of years ago and had high normal LDL and my doc wanted to put me on statins. He barely talked to me about exercise or diet. I kicked him to the curb. My new doc said that was rediculous and I started watching what I ate and started taking fish oil, exercising, etc. I'm now in an acceptable range. I, like you, was concerned on the long term effects of taking drugs.

Not very related to drugs but I read this recently and I found it enlightening. I've never heard LDL and HDL described in this way so concisely. I hate cut and past shiat on forums but you might find it interesting.

[B]CHOLESTEROL (BLOOD LIPID) LEVELS [/B]
[I]High-intensity strength training has been shown to have a positive effect on cholesterol levels, improving blood lipid profiles after only a few weeks of strength-training exercise.5 To a large extent, insulin plays a role here as well, as it is a pro-inflammatory hormone, which, in combination with high levels of glucose, results in more oxidative damage to tissue. A generalized inflammatory state is created, marked by a lot of inflammation on the walls of the blood vessels, which now must be repaired. Cholesterol is a ubiquitous hormone within the body, the equivalent of biologic mortar or spackle; when an inflammatory condition develops on the blood vessel wall, that inflammation is patched over with cholesterol.

Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) basically refer to the density of the protein that is carrying the cholesterol. To understand how these two lipoproteins operate, one has to examine how blood flows. The flow rate in the central portion of a vessel is slightly higher than the flow rate at its periphery. Just as leaves in a river tend to flow out to the edges of the banks, metabolites of lower density tend to behave that way in the bloodstream. Consequently, when the body needs to take cholesterol out to the blood vessel walls to mortar up an inflamed area, it is going to deploy LDL cholesterol to patch the inflammatory sites.

If, on the other hand, the body needs to bring cholesterol back to the liver for processing, this is best accomplished through the central circulation, where it’s not going to stick to the cell walls. HDLcholesterol, therefore, is deployed in such situations, bringing any circulating insulin to the central circulation for processing into other elements, including the synthesis of hormones. In this instance, your body requires a high-density lipoprotein to carry the cholesterol through the central portion of the blood vessel, rather than its periphery. So, the ratio of HDL to LDL is largely an indirect marker of the body’s generalized inflammatory state. Restoring insulin sensitivity decreases that systemic inflammatory state, which results in a less-generalized inflammation of blood vessel walls, thus requiring less need for cholesterol to be transported for this purpose on LDL molecules.

Viewed in this light, high cholesterol levels are really a symptom, not a cause of cardiovascular disease. Not understanding this fact, a lot of people take medicine to try to lower their LDL cholesterol levels artificially. Attempting to control through medication the enzymes that produce elevated cholesterol is analogous to playing pool with a rope. The practical course is to treat the cause of the elevated cholesterol levels by correcting the underlying cellular inflammation, so that the stimulus to produce the LDL is weaker and the stimulus to produce the HDL is stronger. Those levels are basically indirect markers, or downstream effects, of your generalized inflammatory state, which is largely related to the amount of circulating glucose and insulin in the body.

Diet also plays a role here, of course. Eating a proper diet is a giant first step in correcting the whole metabolic syndrome. Consuming a hunter-gatherer type of diet that is relatively restricted in carbohydrates and exceedingly restricted in refined carbohydrates, which cause high spikes in glucose and insulin, can have a profound effect on all of these parameters. The effect derives from yourfavoring glucagon over insulin, but diet alone is not sufficient, because glucagon works on a nonamplifying mechanism, whereby one molecule of glucagon will affect one molecule of glucose.

The true remedy is, once again, high-intensity exercise. Only it has a significant effect on insulin sensitivity, due to the amplification cascade it produces, which aggressively empties glycogen out of the muscles, creating a situation in which enhanced insulin sensitivity becomes a necessity. You have to work out at a level high enough to prompt the glycolytic cells to empty their stores of glycogen. You’re not going to accomplish this by diet alone, by walking on a treadmill, or by a steady-state jog. That’s because for any given level of glucose ingested, the amount of insulin that has to be secreted to resolve the situation is much, much lower.[/I]

Doug McGuff MD, John R.Little; (2008-12-17). Body by Science : A Research Based Program to Get the Results You Want in 12 Minutes a Week (p. 106). McGraw-Hill. Kindle Edition.[/QUOTE]

I've long thought cardiovascular disease and aging slows as a result of vigorous conditioning based on observations of old guys with a long workout history. As research accumulates it's been fairly consistent with that. Those who do it often figure out pretty fast carbs have to get restricted. It's nice to see science back all this up.

Yes, I hate f.ucking celery and tuna or houmous for lunch but I usually make up for it with a special dinner.

But when you think of the dietary habits of FD and average America, it's no wonder obesity and diabetes are skyrocketing. I'll bet little if any of this stuff is taught in school as it might take time away from learning Spanish.

Good excerpt, thanks. You've been providing some really good info.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZhP-_YI5nI[/url]

Lets see your swing.

Larry

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260890]I've long thought cardiovascular disease and aging slows as a result of vigorous conditioning based on observations of old guys with a long workout history. As research accumulates it's been fairly consistent with that. Those who do it often figure out pretty fast carbs have to get restricted. It's nice to see science back all this up.

Yes, I hate f.ucking celery and tuna or houmous for lunch but I usually make up for it with a special dinner.

But when you think of the dietary habits of FD and average America, it's no wonder obesity and diabetes are skyrocketing. I'll bet little if any of this stuff is taught in school as it might take time away from learning Spanish.

Good excerpt, thanks. You've been providing some really good info.[/QUOTE]

Or not. It is difficult to build a solid case to support that because so many millions live into their 100s with sound mind and body and have ZERO history of any exercise at all, nothing. Every rest home is filled with little old ladies and a few little guys like George Burns. There are no big brawny guys in their 90s... duh.

I think the secret to a long and enjoyable life is to have carefully selected your parents, and even their parents. If they were healthy into their 80s+ about the only thing you could do wrong is smoke or walk in front of a fast moving truck. Booze is OK, there a lot of old folks who enjoyed their drinks.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260921]Or not. It is difficult to build a solid case to support that because so many millions live into their 100s with sound mind and body and have ZERO history of any exercise at all, nothing. Every rest home is filled with little old ladies and a few little guys like George Burns. There are no big brawny guys in their 90s... duh.

I think the secret to a long and enjoyable life is to have carefully selected your parents, and even their parents. If they were healthy into their 80s+ about the only thing you could do wrong is smoke or walk in front of a fast moving truck. Booze is OK, there a lot of old folks who enjoyed their drinks.

Larry[/QUOTE]
Yah, except fot the fact that the first 1/2 of their life would have been without all of our modern conveniences that have made us soft and fat. They walked everywhere, ate local natural food. There wasnt even tv so evenings were spent wrestling with their wife under the covers. Many of the jobs were very physical. Yet the did sports and outdoor recreation like fishing.

Now the AMA recommends walking as exercise. Most people sit at a desk for hours then drive straight home to the couch. Most grew up eating processed food. The current generation will live shorter lives than us, and we will probably live less than our parent.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260888]Good article Poe. My doctor also wanted to start me on statins but there was no way I was popping a pill to artificially bring down a reading the value of which is subject to debate. I read up on this stuff years ago and the accepted wisdom that most doctors subscribe to is a load of baloney. She also wanted me to cut down on red meat, eggs, eat margarine instead of butter :rolleyes: , and basically follow a low fat diet. No mention of cutting processed carbohydrates. The dietary cholesterol in red meat or eggs plays very little part in your cholesterol levels. Your body makes 80% of the cholesterol in response to the food you are eating and starchy, processed carbohydrates raise insulin levels and spark the inflammation process described above. That's what causes high cholesterol, not eating foods high in cholesterol.

Genes play a big role too and fortunately for me there is no history of heart disease in my family.

Interesting about the high intensity exercise. I'll remember that at the gym his morning. :)

And I probably should cut my beer intake. :([/QUOTE]

Keep telling yourself that kiwi, denial is a wonderful. There is more scientific evidence linking high cholestorel to a diet high in animal fat than you can poke a stick at. I dont know a single vegan with high cholestorel. And I know heaps who had high levels before going going vegan. I agree that genes are a huge influence and maybe the biggest factor, but diet counts too.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260921]Or not. It is difficult to build a solid case to support that because so many millions live into their 100s with sound mind and body and have ZERO history of any exercise at all, nothing. Every rest home is filled with little old ladies and a few little guys like George Burns. There are no big brawny guys in their 90s... duh.

I think the secret to a long and enjoyable life is to have carefully selected your parents, and even their parents. If they were healthy into their 80s+ about the only thing you could do wrong is smoke or walk in front of a fast moving truck. Booze is OK, there a lot of old folks who enjoyed their drinks.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Millions? Larry, you may suck at golf and hitting tennis balls at concretet walls, bu if hyperbole ever becomes a sport you will have us all covered.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;260925]Keep telling yourself that kiwi, denial is a wonderful. There is more scientific evidence linking high cholestorel to a diet high in animal fat than you can poke a stick at. I dont know a single vegan with high cholestorel. And I know heaps who had high levels before going going vegan. I agree that genes are a huge influence and maybe the biggest factor, but diet counts too.[/QUOTE]

If you have high BP, take your pills. If you have a stroke, that's pretty much worse than death for many--would be for me!. I have a friend who can't walk or talk.. Big husky guy, wealthy with a young trophy wife. He had dropped taking his BP meds for a "key man" physical and then intended to resume taking them after the physical was over. He was going to fool the DR and pass that physical and get lots of investors in his next big deal! That was 5 years ago... he can only mumble now-- The stroke hit him at dinner the evening before the physical. His golf clubs are gathering dust in the garage.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260927]If you have high BP, take your pills. If you have a stroke, that's pretty much worse than death for many--would be for me!. I have a friend who can't walk or talk.. Big husky guy, wealthy with a young trophy wife. He had dropped taking his BP meds for a "key man" physical and then intended to resume taking them after the physical was over. He was going to fool the DR and pass that physical and get lots of investors in his next big deal! That was 5 years ago... he can only mumble now-- The stroke hit him at dinner the evening before the physical. His golf clubs are gathering dust in the garage.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Where is your Ramora? Is all the power off up north in Canada?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260920][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZhP-_YI5nI[/url][/quote]

You don't shift your weight, you don't flatten the shaft.

Basically, you completely fail to do the things that you claim are essential and that you've been working to master.

[quote]Lets see your swing.[/QUOTE]

Sure. And remember, unlike yours, these are real swings on a real course; no do-overs. :)

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSx5G5HmX4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvSx5G5HmX4[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gcn4WQv4u8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gcn4WQv4u8[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFyObjJpl9M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFyObjJpl9M[/URL]

Also try to remember before you post your inevitable cry of "Late!", that it is possible to stop the video at impact and see that my right heel is just off the ground because my weight has been transferred forward.

[QUOTE=mongrel;260928]Where is your Ramora? Is all the power off up north in Canada?[/QUOTE]

It's "rEmora" and power has been restored.

;)

[QUOTE=Larryrsf;260921]Or not. It is difficult to build a solid case to support that because so many millions live into their 100s with sound mind and body and have ZERO history of any exercise at all, nothing. Every rest home is filled with little old ladies and a few little guys like George Burns. There are no big brawny guys in their 90s... duh.

I think the secret to a long and enjoyable life is to have carefully selected your parents, and even their parents. If they were healthy into their 80s+ about the only thing you could do wrong is smoke or walk in front of a fast moving truck. Booze is OK, there a lot of old folks who enjoyed their drinks.

Larry[/QUOTE]


[IMG]http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxqzsbWWev1r41ltvo1_400.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;260925]Keep telling yourself that kiwi, denial is a wonderful. There is more scientific evidence linking high cholestorel to a diet high in animal fat than you can poke a stick at. I dont know a single vegan with high cholestorel. And I know heaps who had high levels before going going vegan. I agree that genes are a huge influence and maybe the biggest factor, but diet counts too.[/QUOTE]

Yeah yeah yeah. Whilst I agree that eating plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables is great what else do you vegans eat? A lot of starchy carbs?

I used to eat the recommended high carb diet, cereal/toast for breakfast, bread rolls/sandwiches for lunch pasta for dinner etc The typical low fat fare. Then after a buddy lost about 15-20 kilos on some strange low carb diet I decided to try it too. Apart from dropping 10 kgs in about 8 weeks my lifetime asthma condition cleared up completely (no longer require medication whereas all my life I had to carry an inhaler everywhere), indigestion/heartburn which was a daily problem vanished and these days I rarely suffer colds and flus whereas all my life I was afflicted badly by both.

That was 8 years ago and I've never looked back. I don't know what else you vegans eat besides fruit and veg but you'll never convince me to go back to starchy carbs. Especially processed carbs.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260933]Yeah yeah yeah. Whilst I agree that eating plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables is great what else do you vegans eat? A lot of starchy carbs?

I used to eat the recommended high carb diet, cereal/toast for breakfast, bread rolls/sandwiches for lunch pasta for dinner etc The typical low fat fare. Then after a buddy lost about 15-20 kilos on some strange low carb diet I decided to try it too. Apart from dropping 10 kgs in about 8 weeks my lifetime asthma condition cleared up completely (no longer require medication whereas all my life I had to carry an inhaler everywhere), indigestion/heartburn which was a daily problem vanished and these days I rarely suffer colds and flus whereas all my life I was afflicted badly by both.

That was 8 years ago and I've never looked back. I don't know what else you vegans eat besides fruit and veg but you'll never convince me to go back to starchy carbs. Especially processed carbs.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100% with all of this. I am currently an overweight vegan. As of the week after christmas I have been on a health kick. Ive cut sugar almost completely, my carbs are probably about half and only low gi carbs, and processed stuff is nearly nil. My caloris intake should be around 2200 or so which, combined with a dedicated exercise program, should see me lose about 1-2 pounds a week, mostly fat. As for your question on what vegans eat besides fruit n veg, legumes, chick peas, nuts and tofu are great protein sources with not much saturated fat. Be careful with no carb diets. You are right tjat loads of starchy carbs are horrible for your health, but your body needs some carbs as they are the energy source of your body and needed for healthy body and brain function. But I agree most people have way too much so what your body doesnt use is stored as fat.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;260936]I agree 100% with all of this. I am currently an overweight vegan. As of the week after christmas I have been on a health kick. Ive cut sugar almost completely, my carbs are probably about half and only low gi carbs, and processed stuff is nearly nil. My caloris intake should be around 2200 or so which, combined with a dedicated exercise program, should see me lose about 1-2 pounds a week, mostly fat. As for your question on what vegans eat besides fruit n veg, legumes, chick peas, nuts and tofu are great protein sources with not much saturated fat. [B]Be careful with no carb diets. You are right tjat loads of starchy carbs are horrible for your health, but your body needs some carbs as they are the energy source of your body and needed for healthy body and brain function[/B]. But I agree most people have way too much so what your body doesnt use is stored as fat.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

When I say low carb it is only low relative to the 60-80% of carbs made up of bread, potato, rice and pasta that have been recommended for years. The diet I try to follow still recommends plenty of carbs but they come from healthy nutritious fruit & veg vs the starchy processed carbs described above.

Of course in addition to fruit and veg, nuts are another thing I forgot to mention that obviously make up an important part of a vegan diet. I also love to consume nuts as a snack and source of healthy fats.

Whilst we disagree on red meat and eggs I am convinced that a diet of lean protein (lean meat, poultry, fish) combined with fruit & veg and healthy fats from nuts, avocado and olives/olive oil is the best way to go.

Tonight SWMBO prepared a Vietnamese spicy chicken salad that was delicious and very low in calories and almost zero carbs.

I also eat eggs daily and credit their nutritional content for staving off colds & flus over the past 8 years.

To be really healthy I just have to cut my beer and coffee intake. Both of which I am hooked on and consume too much of! :)

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260937]Agreed!

When I say low carb it is only low relative to the 60-80% of carbs made up of bread, potato, rice and pasta that have been recommended for years. The diet I try to follow still recommends plenty of carbs but they come from healthy nutritious fruit & veg vs the starchy processed carbs described above.

Of course in addition to fruit and veg, nuts are another thing I forgot to mention that obviously make up an important part of a vegan diet. I also love to consume nuts as a snack and source of healthy fats.

Whilst we disagree on red meat and eggs I am convinced that a diet of lean protein (lean meat, poultry, fish) combined with fruit & veg and healthy fats from nuts, avocado and olives/olive oil is the best way to go.

Tonight SWMBO prepared a Vietnamese spicy chicken salad that was delicious and very low in calories and almost zero carbs.

I also eat eggs daily and credit their nutritional content for staving off colds & flus over the past 8 years.

To be really healthy I just have to cut my beer and coffee intake. Both of which I am hooked on and consume too much of! :)[/QUOTE]
I truly believe beer is the biggest enemy in regards to weight. There are loadss of carbs and calories in beer soif you have even just a few a night its impossible to keep the weight off the mid section. Luckily I have got used to not drinking as I have young kids. I wonder what the weight loss equivalent to 4 strokes off your cap is?

Beer is healthy.

[url]http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/10-surprising-health-benefits-beer?page=1[/url]

Typically when these types of discussions take place, alot of anecdotal evidence is raised, often relative to a few people. This anecdotal evidence is of course worthless and is otherwise known as rationalization. A related type of evidence is one's own experience. There's some value to that but seldom as much as claimed.

Reality is there's not alot of proof in these areas only evidence albeit sometimes strong. There is evidence blood cholesterol levels associate with saturated fats in the diet and correlate with artery disease. There's also evidence carbs, sugar and the bodies own response processes are the prime culprits. There's evidence exercise provides a number of quality of life, blood chemistry and/or longevity benefits. There's evidence our genes decide our longevity and quality of life and there's more that says our choices do.

Our options are to look at the info available and decide what we're willing to do. The typical approach people take, however, is to pick through the information and choose what supports their desired lifestyle, at least to some degree. Hey, if that's what gets you through life who's to say it's bad although it is proof you didn't do well in science in school. But I have no desire to play a game of pretend with myself.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260941]Typically when these types of discussions take place, alot of anecdotal evidence is raised, often relative to a few people. This anecdotal evidence is of course worthless and is otherwise known as rationalization. A related type of evidence is one's own experience. There's some value to that but seldom as much as claimed.

Reality is there's not alot of proof in these areas only evidence albeit sometimes strong. There is evidence blood cholesterol levels associate with saturated fats in the diet and correlate with artery disease. There's also evidence carbs, sugar and the bodies own response processes are the prime culprits. There's evidence exercise provides a number of quality of life, blood chemistry and/or longevity benefits. There's evidence our genes decide our longevity and quality of life and there's more that says our choices do.

Our options are to look at the info available and decide what we're willing to do. The typical approach people take is to pick and choose so as to support their desired lifestyle, at least to some degree. Hey, if that's what gets you through life who's to say it's bad although it is proof you didn't do well in science in school. But I have no desire to play a game of pretend with myself.[/QUOTE]

You have made an excellent summation. Since we play golf, the emphasis will be to a greater degree on how best to ensure we are in decent enough shape to play the game whether we walk or ride. So remember to stretch enough better playing so that you don't pull anything trying to squeeze an extra 40 yards out of your drive on #1 or trying to hit the first par 5 with your 4 iron instead of taking the hybrid or laying up. After the round, don't drink so much that you are a danger on the roadways going home.

This morning at twelves! Saturday.
Grapefruit at 6:00 am, about an hour and half later, whenever the rest get up, I cracked some eggs, chopped some tomato, jalapeño, I shredded some cheddar cheese, one slice of ham, as I believe in Thomas Jefferson motto of only seasoning a meal with meat, a tiny bit of olive oil, I popped some bread in the toaster real butter, and raspberry preserve, no toast for me, no coffee only a half glass of skim milk. I have to run to the health food store and pick up some more large gel capsules and stock up some more African cayenne pepper, or capsicum, as I take 2-4 a day.
Perfect health depends on perfect circulation.
I'm going to have a beer today, probably a Fat Tire, it's my birthday.

[QUOTE=12sandwich;260944]This morning at twelves! Saturday.
Grapefruit at 6:00 am, about an hour and half later, whenever the rest get up, I cracked some eggs, chopped some tomato, jalapeño, I shredded some cheddar cheese, one slice of ham, as I believe in Thomas Jefferson motto of only seasoning a meal with meat, a tiny bit of olive oil, I popped some bread in the toaster real butter, and raspberry preserve, no toast for me, no coffee only a half glass of skim milk. I have to run to the health food store and pick up some more large gel capsules and stock up some more African cayenne pepper, or capsicum, as I take 2-4 a day.
Perfect health depends on perfect circulation.
I'm going to have a beer today, probably a Fat Tire, it's my birthday.[/QUOTE]

Happy Birthday 12. Have a good one.

That breakfast sounded great BTW.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;260941][B]Typically when these types of discussions take place, alot of anecdotal evidence is raised, often relative to a few people. This anecdotal evidence is of course worthless and is otherwise known as rationalization. A related type of evidence is one's own experience. There's some value to that but seldom as much as claimed.[/B]

Reality is there's not alot of proof in these areas only evidence albeit sometimes strong. There is evidence blood cholesterol levels associate with saturated fats in the diet and correlate with artery disease. There's also evidence carbs, sugar and the bodies own response processes are the prime culprits. There's evidence exercise provides a number of quality of life, blood chemistry and/or longevity benefits. There's evidence our genes decide our longevity and quality of life and there's more that says our choices do.

Our options are to look at the info available and decide what we're willing to do. The typical approach people take, however, is to pick through the information and choose what supports their desired lifestyle, at least to some degree. Hey, if that's what gets you through life who's to say it's bad although it is proof you didn't do well in science in school. But I have no desire to play a game of pretend with myself.[/QUOTE]

You're probably right but all I know is that when I followed Doctors orders/recommendations and the typical USDA food pyramid I was a sickly asthmatic. When I tried the alternative described above I became much healthier.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260948]Happy Birthday 12. Have a good one.

That breakfast sounded great BTW.[/QUOTE]

You don't need to read one single book on nutrition to know what's good for you. All you have to do is use common sense and take a look at what you've eaten in the past and how your body responded. I know that when I eat fruit, vegetables and lean beef or chicken for dinner that I feel the best and my body seems to perform the best. When I eat processed foods, diet sodas, snack foods and lots of carbs my body feels horrible. If eat a large pasta dinner with bread I don't feel good at all. Cereal in the morning with skim milk makes me feel great. Eggs, bacon and toast do not. I get hungry shortly thereafter.

We all know what we need to do to be healthy. The problem with the human mind is that we'd rather think than take action. If we think, we can rationalize or procrastinate. If we act, we can do neither. That's why the only way to lose weight is to start immediately. The worst thing you can do is plan for it. To plan is to think.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;260949]You're probably right but all I know is that when I followed Doctors orders/recommendations and the typical USDA food pyramid I was a sickly asthmatic. When I tried the alternative described above I became much healthier.[/QUOTE]

I was also. I started loosely following the Atkins diet about 10 years ago. The weight came down, and of course I felt better.
I still would get sick though, mainly in the winter months. I blamed it on the nasty sometimes grotesque vehicles I had to drive. Unknown things on the floors, dirty diapers, sh!t stains on the seats, boogers. Anyways I was talking with one of my golf buddies about this, as his dad was a doctor, with a rather holistic approach, 50 years he practiced, and he ran the Boston marathon at 81. He's like I got just what you need, straight from Doc.
A week later he's hands me a book from his dads called, Left for dead, by Dick Quinn.
It's pretty much about Quinns family history of death from heart disease, and his early onset heart problems, bypass surgery, and all the medicine prescribed during followup, and he felt like was going to die. The doctors wanted to do another bypass, or he would die they said. Some old women he ran into said, sounds like you need to get on cayenne pepper, and she explains it benefits to the circulatory system.
It's been about 5 years now, I don't get sick anymore, if I feel something coming on I take larger doses of capsicum, my bronchitis disappeared, and I have much more energy, and the booger infested vehicles do not cause me anymore physical illness. Quinn claims he doesn't take any prescribed medicine, and passed on the bypass they wanted to do. He claims the next day after taking cayenne he noticed an immediate improvement. I do as well. Thanks for the happy Bday.
P.S breakfast was nice.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;260950[B]][B][U]You don't need to read one single book on nutrition to know what's good for you. [/U][/B][/B] All you have to do is use common sense and take a look at what you've eaten in the past and how your body responded. I know that when I eat fruit, vegetables and lean beef or chicken for dinner that I feel the best and my body seems to perform the best. When I eat processed foods, diet sodas, snack foods and lots of carbs my body feels horrible. If eat a large pasta dinner with bread I don't feel good at all. Cereal in the morning with skim milk makes me feel great. Eggs, bacon and toast do not. I get hungry shortly thereafter.

We all know what we need to do to be healthy. The problem with the human mind is that we'd rather think than take action. If we think, we can rationalize or procrastinate. If we act, we can do neither. That's why the only way to lose weight is to start immediately. The worst thing you can do is plan for it. To plan is to think.[/QUOTE]

There was a study done, must of been some time ago. i'm sorry but i can't point you to it. My mother (who has done various deegres as a mature age student including sociology) told me about it.
Apparently very young children who were just starting to eat solid food were presented with a complete range of the food groups in a form they could ingest. They were left alone to randomly choose as they wished. Without exception they chose a perfectly balanced diet.
It seems that in our dietry habits, as with all things, our preferences are corupted as we age and are exposed to the western world and it's influences.

[QUOTE=mongrel;260676] 3 wood I must have 10 of the damn things around I am really cheap [/QUOTE]


I need a small-headed, (pre-'04) 3-wood, graphite R or S. I'll trade you minty Pentas or Pro V's for it. Thank you.

[QUOTE=24putts;260953]I need a small-headed, (pre-'04) 3-wood, graphite R or S. I'll trade you minty Pentas or Pro V's for it. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

I've got a Titleist 975F in 13.5*. Its not a bore-through and a solid little mother of a head. I have a couple of Titleist 904F's in 15* that are bore-through. Both are around 2004. I have a Sonartec SS-01
14* not borethrough. This is a small nasty little sucker that needs more clubhead speed than this old man can generate but will travel miles when smoked. That one is definitely pre-04 I think. I have a Wilson System 45 14* head that is really small and probably circa 1990-92. I played this thing with a Dynamic Stiff and hit a few 260 yard hooks with it 20 years ago or so. Of course you can probably get any of these (except the Wilson) used and VERY cheap in places like Golf Galaxy or Ebay. I bought my current 3 wood project head (attached to a steel Tit shaft), a Nike T-60 (with a larger head and deeper face) last weekend in Golf Galaxy for $7.99. I just pulled the third shaft I've had in it since the steel left the head a couple of days ago. It is fun trying to get something to work properly and I've got lots of pulled graphite shafts lying around. Its like Golf Shaft Soduku for me.

I'll take the Sonartec. How many balls do you want?

[QUOTE=24putts;260956]I'll take the Sonartec. [B]How many balls do you want?[/B][/QUOTE]

Easy, Mongrel, I'd be just a little wary of another guy asking me that question . . . . . .

[QUOTE=SoonerBS;260957]Easy, Mongrel, I'd be just a little wary of another guy asking me that question . . . . . .[/QUOTE]


AND they're coming from San Francisco.

[QUOTE=24putts;260959]AND they're coming from San Francisco.[/QUOTE]

... and could be AC-DC

[QUOTE=24putts;260956]I'll take the Sonartec. How many balls do you want?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure that I'm done experimenting with that head yet. You may want to do a bit of on-line research before you agree to part with your balls for a pig-in-a-poke hollowed-out "Driving Cavity" industrial-looking low-lofted, low-spin, totally unforgiving mother f*cker of a useless bag space-occupier woefully ill-equipped to perform yeoman service as a tweener to the Big Stick in the top pocket to the hybrid a.k.a utility club sitting in the same pocket as the longest iron carried which is three or four up from when Real Men bagged Blades and Wood woods. This is the first generation Sonartec and the successive generations' heads are made from a different (and obviously better) steel alloy than the original. Also, the fact that I paid around $25.00 for it in the Golf Galaxy used section maybe 5-8 months ago should tell you that it in no way except physical similarity of head design does it resemble the fairway wood carried by the Best Player in the World Who Never Won a Major. Or, precisely, the World #1 ranked player who has not yet won a major but that don't mean sh*t to the World Rankers (or should that be Wankers?).

[QUOTE=mongrel;260962]I'm not sure that I'm done experimenting [/QUOTE]


Reading between the lines, I guess what you're saying is you don't trust Italians, and figure that when you open up the package you'll find only scuffed up Top-Flites and K'28's. The thing is, us west coast Italians are mostly northerners who never had any connection with the Outfit and are as honest as any Wisconsin dairy farmer, if not quite as smart. The last guy I traded balls to used so many exclamation marks to thank me, I suspected he was Elaine from Seinfeld. The club I'd really like to try is a Nickent hybrid with the SR-3 shaft. You probably know somebody with one of these, so talk it up.

[QUOTE=24putts;260985]Reading between the lines, I guess what you're saying is you don't trust Italians, and figure that when you open up the package you'll find only scuffed up Top-Flites and K'28's. The thing is, us west coast Italians are mostly northerners who never had any connection with the Outfit and are as honest as any Wisconsin dairy farmer, if not quite as smart. The last guy I traded balls to used so many exclamation marks to thank me, I suspected he was Elaine from Seinfeld. The club I'd really like to try is a Nickent hybrid with the SR-3 shaft. You probably know somebody with one of these, so talk it up.[/QUOTE]

You,re a wop?

[QUOTE=24putts;260985]Reading between the lines, I guess what you're saying is you don't trust Italians, and figure that when you open up the package you'll find only scuffed up Top-Flites and K'28's. The thing is, us west coast Italians are mostly northerners who never had any connection with the Outfit and are as honest as any Wisconsin dairy farmer, if not quite as smart. The last guy I traded balls to used so many exclamation marks to thank me, I suspected he was Elaine from Seinfeld. The club I'd really like to try is a Nickent hybrid with the SR-3 shaft. You probably know somebody with one of these, so talk it up.[/QUOTE]

What do you call an Italian without the connections? A priest. If anyone I know bags Nickents, I wouldn't know. The only guys I know with hybrids have Pings and a Taylor. I'm almost convinced that my Sonartec is for a guy who has no problem hitting 2 ande 3 irons off the turf and tee like Gary Woodland. Ain't me no more.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;260950]You don't need to read one single book on nutrition to know what's good for you. All you have to do is use common sense and take a look at what you've eaten in the past and how your body responded. I know that when I eat fruit, vegetables and lean beef or chicken for dinner that I feel the best and my body seems to perform the best. When I eat processed foods, diet sodas, snack foods and lots of carbs my body feels horrible. If eat a large pasta dinner with bread I don't feel good at all. Cereal in the morning with skim milk makes me feel great. Eggs, bacon and toast do not. I get hungry shortly thereafter.

We all know what we need to do to be healthy. The problem with the human mind is that we'd rather think than take action. If we think, we can rationalize or procrastinate. If we act, we can do neither. That's why the only way to lose weight is to start immediately. The worst thing you can do is plan for it. To plan is to think.[/QUOTE]

Accirding to you, advertising affects our decisions. So does information from sources like the AMA. For the most part I agree with what you say but there is plenty information to sway you into believing what is studied is right. So much for having that quarter pounder with cheese and large fry.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;261019]Accirding to you, advertising affects our decisions. So does information from sources like the AMA. For the most part I agree with what you say but there is plenty information to sway you into believing what is studied is right. So much for having that quarter pounder with cheese and large fry.[/QUOTE]

What does advertising have to do with anything. I believe studies from the AMA are for the most part correct. So what is your point? My point is that we already know what most of these studies find. I'm fully aware that a quarter pounder is not good for you. However, having one every once in a while or maybe having 3/4 of one really isn't that big of a deal.

The key, above anything else, is to be at a healthy weight. Nothing will lower your cholesteroal (outside of prescriptions) faster than losing weight. The key is to eat in moderation. My ex sister-in-law has two twin boys, age 11 and one of them is becoming obese. They are all vegetarians. He comes home and starts munching out of the box of Cheez-Its. Think about that--an 11 year old vegetarian boy. That is just stupid and wrong. It goes against everything manly in the world. It is emasculation. It is wrong.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261022]What does advertising have to do with anything. I believe studies from the AMA are for the most part correct. So what is your point? My point is that we already know what most of these studies find. I'm fully aware that a quarter pounder is not good for you. However, having one every once in a while or maybe having 3/4 of one really isn't that big of a deal.

The key, above anything else, is to be at a healthy weight. Nothing will lower your cholesteroal (outside of prescriptions) faster than losing weight. The key is to eat in moderation. My ex sister-in-law has two twin boys, age 11 and one of them is becoming obese. They are all vegetarians. He comes home and starts munching out of the box of Cheez-Its. [B]Think about that--an 11 year old vegetarian boy. That is just stupid and wrong. It goes against everything manly in the world. It is emasculation. It is wrong.[/B][/QUOTE]

Does his mother also make that poor sap wear a skirt? Child protection should take him into custody.

[FONT="Times New Roman"][B]
Evidence of Humans as Omnivores[/B]

[B][I]Archeological Record[/I][/B]
As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.

[B][I]Conclusion
[/I][/B]Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, [B][COLOR="Blue"]the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, health and sexual orientation[/COLOR][/B]. [/FONT]

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;261036]Does his mother also make that poor sap wear a skirt? Child protection should take him into custody.

[FONT="Times New Roman"][B]
Evidence of Humans as Omnivores[/B]

[B][I]Archeological Record[/I][/B]
As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.

[B][I]Conclusion
[/I][/B]Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, [B][COLOR="Blue"]the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, health and[B][U] sexual orientation[/U][/B][/COLOR][/B]. [/FONT][/QUOTE]

What the hell does that mean!
Is this the NZ scenario? If you are in a relationship (sexual) with a sheep you shouldn't eat them?

[QUOTE=oldplayer;261040]What the hell does that mean!
Is this the NZ scenario? If you are in a relationship (sexual) with a sheep you shouldn't eat them?[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. Which preference is more likely to go veggie? Well, on second thought maybe it's obvious.

But generally the blue high-lighted text is relevant anthropologically but how is it germaine to our choices today? Adaptation relates to known considerations and in this case longevity which has changed dramatically during the last few seconds of human history.

[QUOTE=oldplayer;261040]What the hell does that mean!
Is this the NZ scenario? If you are in a relationship (sexual) with a sheep you shouldn't eat them?[/QUOTE]

[img]http://www.world-of-smilies.com/html/../wos_love/gangbang.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;261036]Does his mother also make that poor sap wear a skirt? Child protection should take him into custody.

[FONT="Times New Roman"][B]
Evidence of Humans as Omnivores[/B]

[B][I]Archeological Record[/I][/B]
As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants.

[B][I]Conclusion
[/I][/B]Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, [B][COLOR="Blue"]the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, health and sexual orientation[/COLOR][/B]. [/FONT][/QUOTE]

wtf has archeology got to do with anatomy? From a purely anatomical viewpoint the evidence is overwhelming tjat humans are herbivorous. Out teeth, digestive system and physical characteristics are perfectly adapted to a plant based diet. Do some real research instead of relying on one study from an unrelated disciipline to form conclusions whih support your choice of diet.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;261061]wtf has archeology got to do with anatomy? From a purely anatomical viewpoint the evidence is overwhelming tjat humans are herbivorous. Out teeth, digestive system and physical characteristics are perfectly adapted to a plant based diet. Do some real research instead of relying on one study from an unrelated disciipline to form conclusions whih support your choice of diet.[/QUOTE]

NAH, if my plane crashed and I was lost in the forest the first thing I'd look for is animals to kill. That would be the food I'd need to keep me going. I wouldn't be eating leaves, roots or anything else because those basically have zero calories.

If humans were meant to eat plants, then why did we have to invent farming? Hunting animals is natural while farming is not. For one thing, farming takes time.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261064]NAH, if my plane crashed and I was lost in the forest the first thing I'd look for is animals to kill. That would be the food I'd need to keep me going. I wouldn't be eating leaves, roots or anything else because those basically have zero calories.

If humans were meant to eat plants, then why did we have to invent farming? Hunting animals is natural while farming is not. For one thing, farming takes time.[/QUOTE]

This should just about do it. Anything else on the human diet still unresolved?

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;261066]This should just about do it. Anything else on the human diet still unresolved?[/QUOTE]

ROFL. Just one more thing...who the heck really wants to eat a salad? Give me a rib eye steak any day over some gay greens. There, now we're done.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261067]ROFL. Just one more thing...who the heck really wants to eat a salad? Give me a rib eye steak any day over some gay greens. There, now we're done.[/QUOTE]

NAH would clearly prefer to hang out in a field grazing on grass all day.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261067]ROFL. Just one more thing...who the heck really wants to eat a salad? Give me a rib eye steak any day over some gay greens. There, now we're done.[/QUOTE]

Free of consequences for me it'd be steak all the time, pasta, butter, sauces and I could keep going. I know there would not be alot of veggies in the mix. Bagels, lox and cream cheese for breakfast, pasta for lunch and meat for dinner. I'd run downstairs and make my recipe mac n cheese right now. The secret is in the crust/topping.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;261068]NAH would clearly prefer to hang out in a field grazing on grass all day.[/QUOTE]

Maybe in another life he was a dairy cow. Now THAT would be a paradox!

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261064]NAH, if my plane crashed and I was lost in the forest the first thing I'd look for is animals to kill. That would be the food I'd need to keep me going. I wouldn't be eating leaves, roots or anything else because those basically have zero calories.

If humans were meant to eat plants, then why did we have to invent farming? Hunting animals is natural while farming is not. For one thing, farming takes time.[/QUOTE]

You are making an arrogant assumption that you'd survive the plane crash. Most likely, you would not have survived and the animals that you would have been looking to kill and eat had you survived, will be feasting on you and all the other deceased souls on board. At least the highest animals in the natural order of things in that forest. The lowest ones being the leaf and grass eaters would be appetizers for the carnivores.

Farming, by the way, was developed so that humans could spend more time doing things other than hunting for leaves, grass and berries. Well really! Would you rather play 18 or go out looking for a clay pot full of berries and have to worry not to get the ones from certain plants that would either give you the runs for half a moon, cause hallucinations of Tyranosauris babies nibbling on your genitals, or cause temporary blindness?

[QUOTE=Horseballs;260585]My right hip sucks, but everything else is decent.
I really didn't realize I had tightness in other areas, but [B]the rumble roller exposed a lot. Plus, it only takes about 5 or 10 minutes to hit everything.
It's also great on sore muscles. [/B] I did a particularly rough pull up routine for the first time in months and hardly got sore.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=poe4soul;260633]Go to youtube and [B]search foam roller stretch, or myofascial release[/B]. It's basically a self message. You can get the foam rollers at any sporting goods store like Dick's or Big 5, etc.[/QUOTE]

Up until last week I had never even heard of these things. Then HB and Poe enlightened me and this week, whaddaya know, the pilates instructor gets me working on one.

I told her: "This is good, but I heard it on GR first!"

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player;261078]Up until last week I had never even heard of these things. Then HB and Poe enlightened me and this week, whaddaya know, the pilates instructor gets me working on one.

I told her: "This is good, but I heard it on GR first!"[/QUOTE]

We've been trying to tell you this is the best resource for any and all information that's ever existed. Maybe now you won't argue with us.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261022]What does advertising have to do with anything. I believe studies from the AMA are for the most part correct. So what is your point? My point is that we already know what most of these studies find. I'm fully aware that a quarter pounder is not good for you. However, having one every once in a while or maybe having 3/4 of one really isn't that big of a deal.

The key, above anything else, is to be at a healthy weight. Nothing will lower your cholesteroal (outside of prescriptions) faster than losing weight. The key is to eat in moderation. My ex sister-in-law has two twin boys, age 11 and one of them is becoming obese. They are all vegetarians. He comes home and starts munching out of the box of Cheez-Its. Think about that--an 11 year old vegetarian boy. That is just stupid and wrong. It goes against everything manly in the world. It is emasculation. It is wrong.[/QUOTE]

The point about advertisement is you said people aren't aware of how much advertising really affects them. You're "people." So I concluded you don't know how much these advertisements affect you. Granted you said this many months ago and forgot because you were in a near mental comatose from eating a quarter pounder, large fry and a deit coke, but I do believe it's true. We are pounded everyday with adds. We like to think we're more intelligent than that be we're not.

The comment about the AMA is we see an expert attached to a statement and we take if as gospel. Many are very marginally correct at best. Like walking 30 minutes a day is exercise. It's not, well, unless you weight 300+ pounds. You have to dig deeper.

Your statement about being at a healthy weight is an example. You can have a great BMI but if you have no muscle you can be obese. Likewise you can be obese by the BMI rule and have little body fat and be very healthy.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;261083]The point about advertisement is you said people aren't aware of how much advertising really affects them. You're "people." So I concluded you don't know how much these advertisements affect you. Granted you said this many months ago and forgot because you were in a near mental comatose from eating a quarter pounder, large fry and a deit coke, but I do believe it's true. We are pounded everyday with adds. We like to think we're more intelligent than that be we're not.

The comment about the AMA is we see an expert attached to a statement and we take if as gospel. Many are very marginally correct at best. Like walking 30 minutes a day is exercise. It's not, well, unless you weight 300+ pounds. You have to dig deeper.

Your statement about being at a healthy weight is an example. You can have a great BMI but if you have no muscle you can be obese. Likewise you can be obese by the BMI rule and have little body fat and be very healthy.[/QUOTE]

That's true and I did contradict myself. Most of us think that other people are affected by advertising but the truth is that all of us are affected. Titleist balls are a great example of advertising and how it effects our decisions. Most of the better than average players I know play the Titleist Pro V1 line. The say that it's the best ball for them and that it responds and plays better than any other ball. How much of this is based on the fact that we've been bombarded with statistics showing how many tour pros play the Titleist brand?

Then there's the group that don't play Titleist but whenever they talk about the ball they prefer, Titleist is often mentioned. They'll say "This ball plays ever bit as good, if not better than the Pro V1". Why do they say that? Deep inside, do they really want to play Titleist but don't because they want to be original?

3/4's in the bag and you guys are still carrying on about this shi=1te.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261086]That's true and I did contradict myself. Most of us think that other people are affected by advertising but the truth is that all of us are affected. Titleist balls are a great example of advertising and how it effects our decisions. Most of the better than average players I know play the Titleist Pro V1 line. The say that it's the best ball for them and that it responds and plays better than any other ball. How much of this is based on the fact that we've been bombarded with statistics showing how many tour pros play the Titleist brand?

Then there's the group that don't play Titleist but whenever they talk about the ball they prefer, Titleist is often mentioned. They'll say "This ball plays ever bit as good, if not better than the Pro V1". Why do they say that? Deep inside, do they really want to play Titleist but don't because they want to be original?[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. If the majority play pro v's then it's a bench mark to compare and contrast against. It doesn't always mean what you are saying.

I'm guessing it's more of your rationanization of why you are a sheep. You like to swim with the current, be part of the heard, on the winning team etc. We get it but we're not all like you. You use the same analogy for beers, burgers, music, and women. (you haven't commented on women in this light but I'm guessing you asked your dad, brother, and friends there opinions.) Some of us have our own opinions. Slanted by marketing, sure, but ours just the same.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261064]NAH, if my plane crashed and I was lost in the forest the first thing I'd look for is animals to kill. That would be the food I'd need to keep me going. I wouldn't be eating leaves, roots or anything else because those basically have zero calories.

If humans were meant to eat plants, then why did we have to invent farming? Hunting animals is natural while farming is not. For one thing, farming takes time.[/QUOTE]

FD, when I see a person run down a cow, kill it with pressure on the jugular with elongated incisors, rend the dead body with teeth and claws, then devour the warm bloody flesh in large chunks without chewing, I will accept Im in the presence of an animal adapted to eating meat. I dont doubt humans have been eating meat for a llong time, Im just pointing out we are not naturally adapted to it

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;261091]FD, when I see a person run down a cow, kill it with pressure on the jugular with elongated incisors, rend the dead body with teeth and claws, then devour the warm bloody flesh in large chunks without chewing, I will accept Im in the presence of an animal adapted to eating meat. I dont doubt humans have been eating meat for a llong time, Im just pointing out we are not naturally adapted to it[/QUOTE]

Ummm... ...your logic is severely flawed.

We may not be naturally adapted to preying on cattle, but that's hardly proof that we're not meat eaters.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker;261091]FD, when I see a person run down a cow, kill it with pressure on the jugular with elongated incisors, rend the dead body with teeth and claws, then devour the warm bloody flesh in large chunks without chewing, I will accept Im in the presence of an animal adapted to eating meat. I dont doubt humans have been eating meat for a llong time, Im just pointing out we are not naturally adapted to it[/QUOTE]

Not exactly correct. My dog doesn't have molars but she eats grass, fruit, berries, etc. Coyotes are the same. Baboons, bonobos, and chimps eat meat. Hell, chimps hunt. We're opportunistic, period. It's not like we have a full mouth full of molars. Unless, of course, your name is Mr. Ed.

[QUOTE=poe4soul;261090]Not necessarily. If the majority play pro v's then it's a bench mark to compare and contrast against. It doesn't always mean what you are saying.

I'm guessing it's more of your rationanization of why you are a sheep. You like to swim with the current, be part of the heard, on the winning team etc. We get it but we're not all like you. You use the same analogy for beers, burgers, music, and women. (you haven't commented on women in this light but I'm guessing you asked your dad, brother, and friends there opinions.) Some of us have our own opinions. Slanted by marketing, sure, but ours just the same.[/QUOTE]

I would guess that you are much more of a follower and "sheep" than I am. In fact, the people who voice their opposition to all things popular are usually the ones screaming for acceptance and just want to belong.

I use Callaway i(z) tour balls, Titleist 990 irons, Callaway Hyper X driver and Cobra Hybrids. Hardly what you would call popular equipment.

It's clear that you are too simple to understand my message. In fact, my tastes are the exact opposite of what you are thinking and I would argue that I am much more open than the majority of the people on this forum. The key is that I'm not embarrassed to admit that I like certain music that just happened to be very popular at the time and was not considered "cool" for a guy to like.

If I like something that just happens to be very popular with many other people at the time, I'm not going to say I don't like it just to sound original.

If I like to drink Budweiser, I'm not going to choke down some other beer that's darker just to look cool.

Don't you get it? YOU are the one who is a puppet on the strings. You can't think for yourself. You're so afraid of being labeled or judged by other men. That's just pathetic.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261105]I would guess that you are much more of a follower and "sheep" than I am. In fact, the people who voice their opposition to all things popular are usually the ones screaming for acceptance and just want to belong.

I use Callaway i(z) tour balls, Titleist 990 irons, Callaway Hyper X driver and Cobra Hybrids. Hardly what you would call popular equipment.

It's clear that you are too simple to understand my message. In fact, my tastes are the exact opposite of what you are thinking and I would argue that I am much more open than the majority of the people on this forum. The key is that I'm not embarrassed to admit that I like certain music that just happened to be very popular at the time and was not considered "cool" for a guy to like.

If I like something that just happens to be very popular with many other people at the time, I'm not going to say I don't like it just to sound original.

If I like to drink Budweiser, I'm not going to choke down some other beer that's darker just to look cool.

Don't you get it? YOU are the one who is a puppet on the strings. You can't think for yourself. You're so afraid of being labeled or judged by other men. That's just pathetic.[/QUOTE]

This post is virtually channeling my ex-wife. Not as to popular vs. non-popular stuff, I don't think we ever discussed that. No, she was pathologically able to turn everything around in a completely self serving but highly distorted way. She'd work back from what made her look good and along the way trample logic, relevance and legitimacy.

Yes, your post wins the [B]My Ex-Wife Has A Tragic Brain Disease Award[/B]. Congratulations.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc;261109]This post is virtually channeling my ex-wife. Not as to popular vs. non-popular stuff, I don't think we ever discussed that. No, she was pathologically able to turn everything around in a completely self serving but highly distorted way. She'd work back from what made her look good and along the way trample logic, relevance and legitimacy.

Yes, your post wins the [B]My Ex-Wife Has A Tragic Brain Disease Award[/B]. Congratulations.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I'm glad you're on board.

[QUOTE=famousdavis;261112]Thanks. I'm glad you're on board.[/QUOTE]

Just realize it's your feminine side.