Power Fade

[QUOTE=Macgregor]and if it lands a long way down the fairway its a power fade?[/QUOTE]
That's easy too, a "power" fade means nothing. It doesn't define anything and therefore has no meaning.

Omen, if you land a ball in the rough that has moved 1' to the right, either you've hit a push or you're an idiot for aiming that far to the right. Niether has anything to do with a fade or slice.

[QUOTE=Omen]so i can hit a ball that moves 60 yards left to right, but if it lands in the fairway its a fade....and if i hit a ball that moves 1 yard left to right, but it lands in the rough its a slice......hmmmmmm

not sure if i agree with that....at all.... but you are entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong.....:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


Your post lost some power when you fvcked up your smiley:)

[QUOTE=Letitroll98]That's easy too, a "power" fade means nothing. It doesn't define anything and therefore has no meaning.

[/QUOTE]


I said the same thing ages ago

[QUOTE=Omen]so i can hit a ball that moves 60 yards left to right, but if it lands in the fairway its a fade....and if i hit a ball that moves 1 yard left to right, but it lands in the rough its a slice......hmmmmmm

not sure if i agree with that....at all.... but you are entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong.....:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Omen. The term fade by definition means, "a gradual change"..
Therefore a fade is only slight movement, or bend.
Big bend would be a cut (deliberate). Unintentional cut would be a slice......

[QUOTE=Macgregor]useless or useful?

It has EVERYTHING to do with intent re power fade.A slice is a different matter,maybe.WTF knows and does anyone care?[/QUOTE]

Useless... it was as I intended it. Not that intent has anything to do with outcome.

10 yards is way too small a limit on a fade... power or not. Widen that out to at least 30 Yards of left to right please.

Look, if you intend to fade a ball 20 yards and it bends 50 yards, THAT IS A SLICE!

And if you aim straight down the fairway and the ball starts left and turns 20 yards right, THAT IS A SLICE!.......

A power fade is hit deliberately hard and HIGH, and lands softly with no or very little roll.. that is the whole point, CONTROL
A normal fade will roll more as it has a shallower trajectory...
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

Why don't you guys just go out and try it and stop yakking on about it...

my smilies never work.... i don't know why....

a fade is anyball that moves left to right less than 10 yards....I don't care if you were trying to hit a snap hook i don't care if it lands in the fairway, the water, the sand, the rough, the hole, or the gallery (moveable object) it was still a fade...could have been a push fade, pull fade, i don't care still a FADE.....anything more is a slice

as far as being an idiot because my FADE doesn't find the short stuff...what if i am hitting it through a dog leg and trying to cut some yardage off and hug the right side???

now i am trying to change my ball flight so that the first portion of the flight is a nice high draw...but i want it to finish fading for that soft landing feature....let's debate the power draw fade......how would intent factor into this one???


NEXT.........

[QUOTE=andrew7]Look, if you intend to fade a ball 20 yards and it bends 50 yards, THAT IS A SLICE!

And if you aim straight down the fairway and the ball starts left and turns 20 yards right, THAT IS A SLICE!.......
.[/QUOTE]

Oh dear.. back to school for you methinks. A shot is simply classified by its spin, direction, angle of attack etc... not what you had in your mind :)

[QUOTE=garcia is god]Oh dear.. back to school for you methinks. A shot is simply classified by its spin, direction, angle of attack etc... not what you had in your mind :)[/QUOTE]
Rubbish garcia.....a shot is classified by it's result...after the fact...
If you "fade" a ball more than you intended, you've SLICED it bucco.....And if you hook a ball more than you intended, you've duck-hooked it......

If you intend to hit a ball straight down the middle and you end up hitting it straight left 20 yards off target, what do you call that, straight?....
I call it a pull........

[QUOTE=andrew7]Rubbish garcia.....a shot is classified [B]by it's result[/B]...after the fact...
[/QUOTE]

WONDERFUL DEAR BOY - WE AGREE!!!!!

"By it's (sic) result"... not by its intention!!!

Tralalalalalala Tralalalalalala. Agreement has been reached after 50,004 man hours of wretched labour.

[QUOTE=garcia is god]WONDERFUL DEAR BOY - WE AGREE!!!!!

"By it's (sic) result"... not by its intention!!!

Tralalalalalala Tralalalalalala. Agreement has been reached after 50,004 man hours of wretched labour.[/QUOTE]

Didn't think you were going to get away with it that easily did you?....:)

I'll rephrase it to "By the result, in comparison with the intended outcome..".....

Someone who slices never intends to do it (and if they did it would be called a "cut").....
That's why it is called a slice, and not a big fade. the word slice incorporates the unintentional error.
The same with a snap-hook.....
If someonme says to you, "So-and so snap-hooked his drive on the 18th," you immediately know it was a mistake, just from the terminology used. You know it was not his intention to do it.
Whereas if you heard, " So-and So cut his ball onto the green on the 18th," you know it was intentional....and he had got out of trouble with a skilful shot.....:)

[QUOTE=andrew7]

I'll rephrase it to "By the result, in comparison with the intended outcome..".....
/QUOTE]

You're not helping here Andrew, you're not helping much at all......

[QUOTE=andrew7]
Someone who slices never intends to do it (and if they did it would be called a "cut").....
That's why it is called a slice, and not a big fade. the word slice incorporates the unintentional error.
[/QUOTE]

Absolute tripe. In YOUR opinion there is a separate word called "cut". The word cut is largely American & rarely heard outside there.

In YOUR head (& I'm surprised it took somebody this long to fold & bring in the word "cut" - I was waiting for it much earlier) there can be 2 identical shots. If the person intended it, it's a cut, if the person didn't intend it, it's a slice. Codswallop.

The shot is the SAME, exactly the SAME. A "cut" is merely a euphemism for those who want to feel better about their shot - I'm guessing you often play this "cut" eh? ;)

[QUOTE=andrew7]Rubbish garcia.....a shot is classified by it's result...after the fact...
If you "fade" a ball more than you intended, you've SLICED it bucco.....And if you hook a ball more than you intended, you've duck-hooked it......

If you intend to hit a ball straight down the middle and you end up hitting it straight left 20 yards off target, what do you call that, straight?....
I call it a pull........[/QUOTE]

a pull is a ball that goes straight but is left of the intended target.....

hence the term pull slice or push slice

or pull hook or push hook......duhhh

no way you are not able to grasp this.....

if the ball goes straight then yes i say it went straight.....

if it goes straight left i just say i pulled it...if there is no other definition then it is understood that it went straight.......here let me explain

if i pull the ball and it fades back in....do i say i faded it???? No i say It's a pull with a fade

that is the only way to truly describe the BALL FLIGHT first i pulled it and then i faded it....
you ever notice how the pull happens before the fade never the other way round.....

INTENTION is only relevant if you follow it up with intended BALL FLIGHT.... so when actual ball flight matches intention then the shot is considered controlled.....which could be a vague representation of skill.....

[QUOTE=garcia is god]

The shot is the SAME, exactly the SAME. A "cut" is merely a euphemism for those who want to feel better about their shot - I'm guessing you often play this "cut" eh? ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry to disappoint you, I never slice..Stopped that years ago....

[QUOTE=garcia is god]

The shot is the SAME, exactly the SAME. [/QUOTE]

Of course it is, but it's easier to say "cut" than "intentional slice"....:)

[QUOTE=Omen]a pull is a ball that goes straight but is left of the intended target.....

hence the term pull slice or push slice

or pull hook or push hook......duhhh

no way you are not able to grasp this.....

if the ball goes straight then yes i say it went straight.....

if it goes straight left i just say i pulled it...if there is no other definition then it is understood that it went straight.......here let me explain

if i pull the ball and it fades back in....do i say i faded it???? No i say It's a pull with a fade

that is the only way to truly describe the BALL FLIGHT first i pulled it and then i faded it....
you ever notice how the pull happens before the fade never the other way round.....

INTENTION is only relevant if you follow it up with intended BALL FLIGHT.... so when actual ball flight matches intention then the shot is considered controlled.....which could be a vague representation of skill.....[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the definitions Omen, which I learned at least 18 years ago......
There are of course two or more other options, including "intentional slice" and "unintentional slice"....
But you never hear people speak of an unintentional slice because generally "slice" always presumed to be an unintentional bad shot, just by saying it is a slice.
The same with duck-hook....and to a lesser degree "hook" which is considered an excessive draw and in general an unintentional shot, unless it is called a "deliberate hook"......Deliberate "duck-hooks" are non-existent (try doing one!....)
:)........

I have hit my fair share of the duck hooks.....

a duck hook is nothing like a regular hook except that it moves right to left...it does not go nearly as far and alost always dives down to the ground as oppossed to a regular hook which falls to the ground....the duck dives down quickly, very quickly...

a cut is just a reference to a ball that moves left to right it does not have to be a slice..... i have heard several top pros talk about cutting a ball into a tucked pin location.....from the middle of a fairway there would be no reason to hit an intentional slice into a green....


WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE SOLD ON INTENTION ????

Good grief... after dispensing with "cut", we've now gone into:

INTENTIONAL SLICE vs. UNINTENTIONAL SLICE.


You this make couldn't up........

[QUOTE=Omen]a fade is anyball that moves left to right less than 10 yards....[/QUOTE]

I disagree... where'd you come up with this magic number of 10 yards? Maybe if my wedge moves 10 yards it's a fade but if a driver hit 270 moves only 20 yards off line in a gentle high flight that floats down to the right it's a fade by any measure of the word except apparently your own. Get a clue. Maybe you need to walk off 10 yards so you know how little movement that is you're talking about.

[QUOTE=neverman]I disagree... where'd you come up with this magic number of 10 yards? Maybe if my wedge moves 10 yards it's a fade but if a driver hit 270 moves only 20 yards off line in a gentle high flight that floats down to the right it's a fade by any measure of the word except apparently your own. Get a clue. Maybe you need to walk off 10 yards so you know how little movement that is you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

I agree.
If you have a fairway 40 yard wide and you aim down the left hand side (aiming off by 20 yards), and you set your ball off to the left side and turn it by 20 yards into the middle of the firway, then nobody would say you had sliced it. You would have faded it into the middle of the fairway..
..

[QUOTE=andrew7]I agree.
If you have a fairway 40 yard wide and you aim down the left hand side (aiming off by 20 yards), and you set your ball off to the left side and turn it by 20 yards into the middle of the firway, then nobody would say you had sliced it. You would have faded it into the middle of the fairway..
..[/QUOTE]

What about the 1st fairway at St. Andrews? I set my ball off the left side & turn it by 60 yards into the centre of the fairway.

Solid fade, I'd say.

so if i pull my push whilst fading my draw I've found that it it equivalant to when i push my pull whilst drawing my fade the ball seems to end up in approx. the same area......

is it my intent or what????

[QUOTE=garcia is god]What about the 1st fairway at St. Andrews? I set my ball off the left side & turn it by 60 yards into the centre of the fairway.

Solid fade, I'd say.[/QUOTE]

Solid between the ears, I'd say, if that's how you would play a fairway like that.....:):)

[QUOTE=garcia is god]Good grief... after dispensing with "cut", we've now gone into:

INTENTIONAL SLICE vs. UNINTENTIONAL SLICE.


You this make couldn't up........[/QUOTE]

Most golfers when they start playing have a defect in their swing where the ball moves wildly from left-to-right on a right-hander called a "slice". When it goes wildly right to left it's called a "hook", and because of the nature of that shot you can hook it extremely hard called a "snap hook". There is not such thing as a "snap slice".

Anyway, most low handicap golfers can hit a "straight" shot, but most golfers find that they cannot consistantly hit them perfectly straight, so they choose instead to purposefully move the ball from right to left, or from left to right (called shot shaping), so they can take one side of the fairway or green out of play, and the fairway or green can be more easily accessed when the ball is coming in from an angle. For example, it's much easier to hit a fairway that curves right with a shot shape that curves right as well, it's just simple geometry. When this methodology is used it's called hitting a fade and a draw because they are intentional and they are useful (instead of a defect). Most high handicap golfers have a hard time understanding this concept, and will only believe that when a ball moves left-to-right that it's a slice, and that it's a defect! Good golfers hit it straight, bad golfers hit them with a defect, i.e. a hook or slice, because that's what they do when they play.

So Power Fade, what is it? A fade usually looses distance to a straight shot while a draw increases distance from a straight shot, so obviously a draw is consider more of a "power shot." However, there are many players on tour who are hitting fades a long distance, like 300 yards with a driver, so the term "Power Fade" has been used.

The fade is really a great shot, it has a higher tracjectory, and lands softer so distance control is usually better. Johnny Miller always says that the high-fade is the shot of the US Open. Interestingly, most LPGA players hit a draw because they typcially cannot hit a power fade because of the reduced club-head speed, so they hit the draw for it's added distance, but they loose accuracy on the greens.

Of course, the best case is to be able to play all three shots, but most golfers find that certain ball fllights are more easily hit for them, so they tend to hit them whenever they can because of the increase in confidence in that shot, and with very few players is that ball flight a straight ball.

[QUOTE=wwjdwithca]Most golfers when they start playing have a defect in their swing where the ball moves wildly from left-to-right on a right-hander called a "slice". When it goes wildly right to left it's called a "hook", and because of the nature of that shot you can hook it extremely hard called a "snap hook". There is not such thing as a "snap slice".

Anyway, most low handicap golfers can hit a "straight" shot, but most golfers find that they cannot consistantly hit them perfectly straight, so they choose instead to purposefully move the ball from right to left, or from left to right (called shot shaping), so they can take one side of the fairway or green out of play, and the fairway or green can be more easily accessed when the ball is coming in from an angle. For example, it's much easier to hit a fairway that curves right with a shot shape that curves right as well, it's just simple geometry. When this methodology is used it's called hitting a fade and a draw because they are intentional and they are useful (instead of a defect). Most high handicap golfers have a hard time understanding this concept, and will only believe that when a ball moves left-to-right that it's a slice, and that it's a defect! Good golfers hit it straight, bad golfers hit them with a defect, i.e. a hook or slice, because that's what they do when they play.

So Power Fade, what is it? A fade usually looses distance to a straight shot while a draw increases distance from a straight shot, so obviously a draw is consider more of a "power shot." However, there are many players on tour who are hitting fades a long distance, like 300 yards with a driver, so the term "Power Fade" has been used.

The fade is really a great shot, it has a higher tracjectory, and lands softer so distance control is usually better. Johnny Miller always says that the high-fade is the shot of the US Open. Interestingly, most LPGA players hit a draw because they typcially cannot hit a power fade because of the reduced club-head speed, so they hit the draw for it's added distance, but they loose accuracy on the greens.

Of course, the best case is to be able to play all three shots, but most golfers find that certain ball fllights are more easily hit for them, so they tend to hit them whenever they can because of the increase in confidence in that shot, and with very few players is that ball flight a straight ball.[/QUOTE]


That's a great post, but I never said that a fade & a slice were one & them same. I've also seen many great players hitting a slight fade.

This is a discussion about exaggerated fades (or "power fades"). To me these are rather similar to a slice.

I think we've exhausted every avenue in this thread - maybe it's time to close it. :D

Gee, now everything is so much clearer.

Say, what the difference between a power draw and a duck hook? (Maybe I should start another thread.....)

ah.... you're thinking a power fade is akin to an exaggerated fade. That's your problem. The term power fade isn't used to describe a ball that moves left to right FURTHER ( or almost a slice ) but rather it is a shot that is hit extremely long and bends very little. It probably usually only moves left to right as much as a regular fade would but it's so far out there that it's majestic. It can't be described as anything near "slicing" it's almost a straight shot with a little tail on it.

[QUOTE=neverman]ah.... you're thinking a power fade is akin to an exxagerated fade. That's your problem. The term power fade isn't used to describe a ball that moves left to right FURTHER ( or almost a slice ) but rather it is a shot that is hit extremely long and bends very little. It probably usually only moves left to right as much as a regular fade would but it's so far out there that it's majestic. It can't be described as anything near "slicing" it's almost a straight shot with a little tail on it.[/QUOTE]

If it were solely a question of it bending "only a little", then yes I'm in agreement.

Read through the hundreds (!) of posts in this thread & that's not all that is claimed. The words "slight slice", "intentional slice" have all been bandied about.

if i plan to top the ball but hit it perfectly is it still a top?

hmm....

[QUOTE=theidioticbizarre]if i plan to top the ball but hit it perfectly is it still a top?

hmm....[/QUOTE]


Yes - this case has been covered (see above posts).

GOD I LOVE THIS THREAD.... ALL NEWBIES SHOULD READ AND CONTRIBUTE.

Omen

slices occur by mistake, fades are intentional. and if you cant tell which is which, watch the guy on a dog leg left, and see if he can hit anything but a slice

slices dont neccessarily occur by mistake... 99.9% do, but i have seen tiger hit a 60-70 yard slice out of the woods and into a green. that was his intent and it worked, but i do agree that in the general sense it is a mistake.

Omen..

god i still love this thread... and i miss riogolfer and garcia is god...

Dear Sirs

Power fade is fundamentally different compared to the traditional fades that club-handicup players use. That is because the swing is different.

You might get the idea by thinking a draw-swing that fades.

In power fade you aim your stance to the left and make an inside-out swing keeping club-head actively open.

Truly, you set the tee more to the left and tee the ball a little bit higher than normally. By this set-up the ball goes high, with not so much spin. As there is no spin you actually get also long roll to the ball.

In traditional fade (or slight slice), you take your set-up to target and hit the ball outside-in with clubhead straight to target (simplification). The ball starts left and corrects back to target. The difference is that the outside-in swing is weaker than inside-out. The ball has more spin - it stops quicker afer the carry.

[QUOTE=Gussie]Thanks, but a power fade doesn't take the left side of the fairway out of play...it takes the right side out of play. That is, for a right-handed player aiming down the left side of the fariway and hitting a fade, he/she is taking the right side out of play (like avoiding a hazard or trying to move the ball around a dogleg to the right hole. Generally speaking, if a player lines up on the left side of the tee box he most likely is going to hit a fade, and if he lines up on the right side of the box he is going to play a draw (and take the left side of the hole out of play.
At the professional level, these different shots are hit at will from not only the tee box, but the fairway also. In fact, watch a good wedge player and you'll see that the ball flight is a slight fade, allowing the ball to land soft without much roll.[/QUOTE]
OMG..............are you serious dude . A frikin fade or power fade eliminates the entire left side of any hole . And if you miss with a fade you are deffinetly going to miss to the right. Being able to go out and eliminate one side of the course will lower your scores aswell. Aslong as your not slicing into the trees all day. LOLOLLL. and a draw my dear uneducated in golf friend is going to always miss left. Hence a hook that goes left. Bro you need some help with your golf terms

Is everyone in some kind of time warp today?

this is an awesome thread one of the best here on GR imo... it has both the flaming and the discussion never really gets off track... great thread...

[QUOTE=ProStatus]OMG..............are you serious dude . A frikin fade or power fade eliminates the entire left side of any hole . And if you miss with a fade you are deffinetly going to miss to the right. Being able to go out and eliminate one side of the course will lower your scores aswell. Aslong as your not slicing into the trees all day. LOLOLLL. and a draw my dear uneducated in golf friend is going to always miss left. Hence a hook that goes left. Bro you need some help with your golf terms[/QUOTE]

Guru, you do realize he posted that 2 years ago? i'm sure the dude's long gone now.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]Guru, you do realize he posted that 2 years ago? i'm sure the dude's long gone now.[/QUOTE]
This thread got exhumed because some DB posted a spam thread for medications from Germany. Our moderators have deleted the post, but the thread remains open.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]This thread got exhumed because some DB posted a spam thread for medications from Germany. Our moderators have deleted the post, but the thread remains open.[/QUOTE]

Come on Dorkman, admit it, this thread is legendary and deserved exhuming. :)

[QUOTE=BrianMcG]Is everyone in some kind of time warp today?[/QUOTE]

that's what i'm wondering. graves are being dug up. fun to read some historic GR flames that were before my time though.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]that's what i'm wondering. graves are being dug up. fun to read some historic GR flames that were before my time though.[/QUOTE]

Bonjour BJ

This is a great thread, what happened to all of these people?

I played a power fade today, not a slice mind you, a POWER FADE, and be under no illusion i know the difference :rolleyes:

Au revior

Rosbif

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]that's what i'm wondering. graves are being dug up. fun to read some historic GR flames that were before my time though.[/QUOTE]

The interesting thing I noticed in this thread was the metamorphosis of Omen in his formative period (with about 200 posts) into Omen 2 (with over 2,700 posts).

Does that mean he was banned at some point?

It might have been during the dark days of the Ironfist regime when Ironman almost moderated this forum to death.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]that's what i'm wondering. graves are being dug up. fun to read some historic GR flames that were before my time though.[/QUOTE]
Of course, it may not be a true spammer, after all. It could be one of the "old familiar" people pretending to be spammers. This board is just full of head cases.....

[QUOTE=dorkman53]This thread got exhumed because some DB posted a spam thread for medications from Germany.[/QUOTE]

Can this German medication help transform a slice into a power fade? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Jordrok]Can this German medication help transform a slice into a power fade? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

What do you mean 'transform'?

There's no difference between a slice and a power fade. Haven't you read the thread?

Go back and start from the beginning and read the entire thread. Then we can resume this discussion.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]What do you mean 'transform'?

There's no difference between a slice and a power fade. Haven't you read the thread?

Go back and start from the beginning and read the entire thread. Then we can resume this discussion.[/QUOTE]

NO Kiwi, you ignorant BASTARD!!!! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!! GOD, golfreview SUCKS!!!!! (just trying to get my name on this historic thread, and maintain the threads original feel. That is all. carry on.)

[QUOTE=Home-slicer]NO Kiwi, you ignorant BASTARD!!!! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!! GOD, golfreview SUCKS!!!!! (just trying to get my name on this historic thread, and maintain the threads original feel. That is all. carry on.)[/QUOTE]

HOMESLICER, YOU CAN'T EVEN POST ON HERE W/OUT CALLING PEOPLE NAMES AND SHOWING YOUR IMMATURITY!!!!

-drivers, doing his part for this historic thread :D

R.I.P. garciaisgod

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]HOMESLICER, YOU CAN'T EVEN POST ON HERE W/OUT CALLING PEOPLE NAMES AND SHOWING YOUR IMMATURITY!!!!

-drivers, doing his part for this historic thread :D

R.I.P. garciaisgod[/QUOTE]

garcia is god would have appreciated a few of the [I]power fades[/I] I hit today. Next time I'm hitting a GIG power fade I'll have to remember to aim about two fairways to the left.

I suspect Garcia is God no longer posts because he was set on fire or strangled by a roomate, wife or someone else who was forced to have regular conversations with him.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I suspect Garcia is God no longer posts because he was set on fire or strangled by a roomate, wife or someone else who was forced to have regular conversations with him.[/QUOTE]

I remember this thread well and from memory I would have sworn it was [I]theidioticbizarre[/I] making the comments. However reading back over this thread it was clearly [I]Garcia is God[/I] setting the moronic tone of the thread.

Being somebody that generally place bogie golf, I damn sure know the difference between a fade and a slice. About 20 or more yards.

This thread was before my forum days too, but still a good read. I also wish garcia is god wa still posting here. I hope my (and Lorenzo's) relentless falming of El Whino didn't have anything to do with his disappearance.

P.S. Speaking of Lorenzo, it's great to hear from Rosbif again, I almost forgot he existed. He should post here more often.

[QUOTE=jt1135]Being somebody that generally place bogie golf, I damn sure know the difference between a fade and a slice. About 20 or more yards.[/QUOTE]

After all these posts, finally the correct answer.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]After all these posts, finally the correct answer.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree that the difference is only 20 yards. I think it is more like 100 yards. It seems that we are not discussing about the same topic.

[QUOTE=smokki_ja_sikari]I don't agree that the difference is only 20 yards. I think it is more like 100 yards. It seems that we are not discussing about the same topic.[/QUOTE]

Well, since 100 is more than 20, then jt1135's definition (20 yards or more) is consistent with your definition. So applying the strict rules of logic, I disagree that you disagree.

I don't dispute the fact that a fade is a controlled, intentional shot whereas a slice is an error. However, can you hit a fade with a driver that isn't a "power" fade? Did Jack Nicholas have a "regular" driver fade AND a "power fade"? If so, what are the differences in ball flight and technique? I'm confused. DAMN THIS PERPLEXING DILEMMA WE HAVE STUMBLED UPON!!!!!!! No wonder this discussion has lasted for years.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Well, since 100 is more than 20, then jt1135's definition (20 yards or more) is consistent with your definition. So applying the strict rules of logic, I disagree that you disagree.[/QUOTE]

In the pure sense of Aristotelian logic, you are right. I still think that the concept of "20 yards or more" is different from "more like 100 yards".

[QUOTE=smokki_ja_sikari]In the pure sense of Aristotelian logic, you are right. I still think that the concept of "20 yards or more" is different from "more like 100 yards".[/QUOTE]

We'll split the difference. 60 yards. 60 yards it is. Agreed?

[QUOTE=Home-slicer]I don't dispute the fact that a fade is a controlled, intentional shot whereas a slice is an error. However, can you hit a fade with a driver that isn't a "power" fade? Did Jack Nicholas have a "regular" driver fade AND a "power fade"? If so, what are the differences in ball flight and technique? I'm confused. DAMN THIS PERPLEXING DILEMMA WE HAVE STUMBLED UPON!!!!!!! No wonder this discussion has lasted for years.[/QUOTE]

There is a fundamental difference in the way, how Jack Nicholas creates a power-fade and a high-handicap player creates a slice. You need to draw some lines to get the idea.

Hitting the ball with your arms, typically causes an outside-in swing. Assuming that the clubface is to target. The ball starts left and turns right.

A correct swing powered by feet goes inside-out. Assuming that the club-face is again to target the ball starts right and turns left. This is called draw and it is preferred by many low-handicap players. One of the reasons is that this kind of swing naturally creates more power.

Think about an inside-out swing, with clubface open. The ball would start right and turn right - a terrible shot called push-slice. But just make the compensations - turn your stance 6 degrees left. Swing 3 degrees inside out and keep the clubfase in target. Now you are making a powerfull swing that fades.

One important element here is that you keep your clupface open by actively resisting the closure. This is a topic of it's own to be discussed for another two years.

When you still move the ball two inches left and one inch higer on the tee, you are getting a high flight with lesser spin - long carry + long roll.

So, could Jack have two different shots - fade and power-fade? Yes he could, but why he should? Instead of driving to 220 yards, he could use 7-iron.

[QUOTE=Home-slicer]We'll split the difference. 60 yards. 60 yards it is. Agreed?[/QUOTE]

That is a good compromise and I can accept it.

Garcia is God was an epic poster back in his day. RIP. I also haven't heard from TIB in awhile either, but I'm sure he is still out railing chicks at university.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Garcia is God was an epic poster back in his day. RIP. I also haven't heard from TIB in awhile either, but I'm sure he is still out railing chicks at university.[/QUOTE]
Yes, TIB will be mourned indefinitely on this fine forum. His greatest moment was when he ran for cover after Spank discovered and displayed his MySpace photos, showing him with his chubby boyfriend. Yes, one could say that he was left "squealing like a pig".........

If I had taken the time to read all the posts on this thread I'd be starko, so I just FFed to the end and I have this technical note to offer..

a power fade is usually done with an in-line swing path and a slight open clubface. A slice usually results from an outside-in swing path combined with the open face.

It's called a power fade because it's hit with a proper swing, not an over the top chop.

Slices are not just open faces but cutting across the ball. Powerfades are straight swings with slight open faces.

The key to it is this:

If you hit lots of slices and the occasional pull hook, you are cutting across the ball.

If you hit fades but occasionally hit a ball that won't fade but goes straight, you're a power fader. You're NOT cutting across the ball. Your occasional error is simply not holding the face open at impact.

/end lesson

[QUOTE=daveperkins]If I had taken the time to read all the posts on this thread I'd be starko, so I just FFed to the end and I have this technical note to offer..

a power fade is usually done with an in-line swing path and a slight open clubface. A slice usually results from an outside-in swing path combined with the open face.

It's called a power fade because it's hit with a proper swing, not an over the top chop.

Slices are not just open faces but cutting across the ball. Powerfades are straight swings with slight open faces.

The key to it is this:

If you hit lots of slices and the occasional pull hook, you are cutting across the ball.

If you hit fades but occasionally hit a ball that won't fade but goes straight, you're a power fader. You're NOT cutting across the ball. Your occasional error is simply not holding the face open at impact.

/end lesson[/QUOTE]

OK so we all know there is a huge difference between a power fade and a slice - despite what Garcia is God was trying to argue - but I agree with Homeslicer. What is the difference between a fade and a power fade?

[QUOTE=smokki_ja_sikari]One important element here is that you keep your clupface open by actively resisting the closure. [B]This is a topic of it's own to be discussed for another two years.[/B][/QUOTE]

My mission as well. So let me start. There are many ways to hit a fade or slice, none of them required to achieve either one of them. I know accomplished golfers that do nothing more than change their grip. Others set up open. It's the result that matters.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]OK so we all know there is a huge difference between a power fade and a slice - despite what Garcia is God was trying to argue - but I agree with Homeslicer. What is the difference between a fade and a power fade?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you brought this up because I'm not sure it's been addressed yet in this thread.

In the case of the pros, a power fade moves left to right about 5-7 yards. That's it. Some on this board would claim a draw if they achieved this ball flight. They know who they are.

If you weren't to pay careful attention to the ball flight of a power fade, it would just look straight. Again, like some on this board. And again, they know who they are.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]OK so we all know there is a huge difference between a power fade and a slice - despite what Garcia is God was trying to argue - but I agree with Homeslicer. What is the difference between a fade and a power fade?[/QUOTE]


call me crazy, but I think a guy who has no power can't hit a power fade.. :-)

It's an extension of the old Ben Hogan story from the pro-am--

"Mr. Hogan, how can I get my seven iron to back up like yours does?"

Hogan "how far you hit a seven iron?"

"'bout 140"

Hogan "then why the he11 do you want it to back up?"

In the spirit of this epic GR gem...

Since edgey ran off M3W, I'm the only guy left on here who can hit the power fade, since I'm the only one left who has enough thunder to hit a POWER anything. BJ used to have the power but that poor squirrel seems to have lost his nuts.

Unless it goes at LEAST 300 in the air, it's just a little sissy cut. If it moves over 20 yards off the intended target line - then it's a slice and not a fade. Under 300 carry - wussy little banana slice.

Of course since I prefer the draw (the superior shot shape), I fear the power fade may be all but extinct here on GR. At least it went out in true GR style.



FON

[QUOTE=FreakOfNature]In the spirit of this epic GR gem...

Since edgey ran off M3W, I'm the only guy left on here who can hit the power fade, since I'm the only one left who has enough thunder to hit a POWER anything. BJ used to have the power but that poor squirrel seems to have lost his nuts.

Unless it goes at LEAST 300 in the air, it's just a little sissy cut. If it moves over 20 yards off the intended target line - then it's a slice and not a fade. Under 300 carry - wussy little banana slice.

Of course since I prefer the draw (the superior shot shape), I fear the power fade may be all but extinct here on GR. At least it went out in true GR style.



FON[/QUOTE]

silly french canadian, i haven't lost my nuts, i simply store them in your mom's mouth.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]silly french canadian, i haven't lost my nuts, i simply store them in your mom's mouth.[/QUOTE]


Comments like that could instigate a GR "You're doing it wrong" thread. I thought you traded your nuts for a sackful of titties.

Well done working a momma joke in there though.



FON