Lets resurrect "Swing the Clubhead!"

I have come full circle in my 7 year golf "career." I started golfing when I turned 60-- an avid tennis player for 15+ years before that and a handball player before that. I decided to start by taking a few lessons from a PGA pro who is a or even "the" nationally recognized protege of Manuel De La Torre who inherited the mantle of "Swing the Clubhead" (STC) teaching from Ernest Jones. Gary Sowinski is mentioned in Manuel's book. He is also the Director of Golf at my club in Rancho Santa Fe, CA.

"Swing the Clubhead" is more a mental approach than a set of technical "dos and don'ts" Ernest Jones believed that we can do what we envision-- that much of the golf swing is controlled by the subconscious mind-- and NOT the conscious mind. So the teaching is about controlling our subconscious--"trying to do" what makes us repeatedly create a functional golf swing, even if what we "try" is not exactly what happens.

Most STC lessons include having the student hit balls with eyes closed-- demonstrating to him that his vision of the swing is MORE powerful than his conscious attempts to make something happen. The pro first teaches the student make a decent centrifugal pass with the clubhead, good grip, good setup, etc. very loose grip pressure, then has the student shut his eyes and swing through a teed ball toward a target. Invariably the student makes perfect contact and perfect ball flight-- and quite often that swing is the best one he makes for several months!

And now I am coming back to this wisdom. Combining the good mechanics of a solid back leg knee set, the "squat" move that prevents standing up, the two elbows together teaching of Hogan and Mickey Wright, et. al. and I have my version of STC.

It works-- and it works so well that I shot 34/38 last week with only average putting. I hit ALL the fairways and half the greens. I think I will hit ALL the fairways and possibly ALL the greens next Saturday.

Take a look. These 6i shots were going 170 yards PLUS. WAY over my normal target out there.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINRDQFpceA[/url]

So maybe old Ernest Jones was right. His teaching was the MOST POPULAR golf swing instruction method in the WORLD for 30+ years until Arnold Palmer and "square to square" came along to screw up millions of golfers with position analysis.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]

Take a look. These 6i shots were going 170 yards PLUS. WAY over my normal target out there.

Larry[/QUOTE]


Your 5i must be 180 yards plus.. congrats. I bet your driving distance is about 240 yards.

Does Ernest Jones also recommend posting false scores to manipulate your handicap?

I guess you can do that with your eyes closed too demonstrating that your vision of the score is MORE powerful than your actual score.

The word "let's" implies that more than one person would be involved.......

[QUOTE=No_Idea]Your 5i must be 180 yards plus.. congrats. I bet your driving distance is about 240 yards.[/QUOTE]

he's full of ****, an old man, losing his lag as his hands get to his waist, only 15 MINUS yards short of my 6 iron.....


Please.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I have come full circle in my 7 year golf "career." I started golfing when I turned 60-- an avid tennis player for 15+ years before that and a handball player before that. I decided to start by taking a few lessons from a PGA pro who is a or even "the" nationally recognized protege of Manuel De La Torre who inherited the mantle of "Swing the Clubhead" (STC) teaching from Ernest Jones. Gary Sowinski is mentioned in Manuel's book. He is also the Director of Golf at my club in Rancho Santa Fe, CA.

"Swing the Clubhead" is more a mental approach than a set of technical "dos and don'ts" Ernest Jones believed that we can do what we envision-- that much of the golf swing is controlled by the subconscious mind-- and NOT the conscious mind. So the teaching is about controlling our subconscious--"trying to do" what makes us repeatedly create a functional golf swing, even if what we "try" is not exactly what happens.

Most STC lessons include having the student hit balls with eyes closed-- demonstrating to him that his vision of the swing is MORE powerful than his conscious attempts to make something happen. The pro first teaches the student make a decent centrifugal pass with the clubhead, good grip, good setup, etc. very loose grip pressure, then has the student shut his eyes and swing through a teed ball toward a target. Invariably the student makes perfect contact and perfect ball flight-- and quite often that swing is the best one he makes for several months!

And now I am coming back to this wisdom. Combining the good mechanics of a solid back leg knee set, the "squat" move that prevents standing up, the two elbows together teaching of Hogan and Mickey Wright, et. al. and I have my version of STC.

It works-- and it works so well that I shot 34/38 last week with only average putting. I hit ALL the fairways and half the greens. I think I will hit ALL the fairways and possibly ALL the greens next Saturday.

Take a look. These 6i shots were going 170 yards PLUS. WAY over my normal target out there.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINRDQFpceA[/url]

So maybe old Ernest Jones was right. His teaching was the MOST POPULAR golf swing instruction method in the WORLD for 30+ years until Arnold Palmer and "square to square" came along to screw up millions of golfers with position analysis.

Larry[/QUOTE]



I'm no Butch Harmon (well maybe a bit after 10 pints and my eyes start going a bit squinty) but I've watched your swing a few times now and I think you actually seem to stand up a little through the downswing, no?......surely not?!!

Why is the camera so far away? I feel like i'm in the nose bleed seats. How can we really tell that your eyes are closed. We need another video just to verify that your eyes are shut. Also, why isn't there never anyone at your golf course? It must be pretty boring to play golf all by yourself.

I was hoping this forum had at least ONE serious golfer--

I won't waste much time here in future.

larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I was hoping this forum had at least ONE serious golfer--

I won't waste much time here in future.

larry[/QUOTE]

they ae being serious... no one believe that crap anymore... swinging with your "subconscense" ha!!! thats just stupid...

Larry, where is that? Morgan Run?

Nice OTT/spinout move LarryAB. Slices are nothing to be ashamed of. Most amateurs with swings as upright and crappy as yours lose the ball to the right. Just learn how to play with it. I suggest lining up on the left side of the tee box to give the ball more room to move (righties, move to the right side of the tee box). Good luck with your game.

[QUOTE=dorkman53]The word "let's" implies that more than one person would be involved.......[/QUOTE]

There are two. The conscious mind that knows what the score was and the subconscious mind that knows what the score should have been!

[QUOTE=pingman360]they ae being serious... no one believe that crap anymore... swinging with your "subconscense" ha!!! thats just stupid...[/QUOTE]

Don't bet against one of them-- such as the Director of Golf at my club--who is the best competitive player in S. California. Gary Sowinski believes--and his full shots and his putting speaks for his belief- he can "MAKE" the ball go where he envisions. Laugh if you want--but bring your wallet.

Larry

I would love to drop 10 or 20 balls and hit them to a target against nearly any amateur. If you feel froggy, bring your wallet.

Larry

Larry, I personally don't have anything against you. If it works for you then great, continue to use it. However, you tend to bring up Hogan and his book way too much for my liking. I bought and read Hogan's book and feel like I wasted about 15 hours of my life because his techniques were way too difficult for a 22 handicap player to understand (which is what I was at the time of reading it.) I may not agree with you on some of your posting, but feel free to fire away . . . . .

By the way, I personally LOVED your Tai Chi with the golf club techniques and have considered using them in my excersize regime whenever I turn 70 in the next 26 years . . . . .

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I was hoping this forum had at least ONE serious golfer--

I won't waste much time here in future.

larry[/QUOTE]

Please don't leave GR without a long winded angry diatribe thread. You owe us at least one more classic Larry century thread. Don't wuss out.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I would love to drop 10 or 20 balls and hit them to a target against nearly any amateur. If you feel froggy, bring your wallet.

Larry[/QUOTE]


I'll take that bet. Yesterday.



FON

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I would love to drop 10 or 20 balls and hit them to a target against nearly any amateur. If you feel froggy, bring your wallet.[/QUOTE]

Any time, Larry...

:D

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I was hoping this forum had at least ONE serious golfer--

I won't waste much time here in future.[/QUOTE]

There are lots of serious golfers here, Larry.

That's why we laugh so hard when an obvious 20+ handicapper is trying to tell us what "everyone" should be doing.

:)

[QUOTE=Larryrsf] ........[B]Most STC lessons include having the student hit balls with eyes closed[/B]....
[/QUOTE]
Be the ball Larry.

Here is a good training video for you.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvZ9LPzTURg[/url]

BE the Dick NAH

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I would love to drop 10 or 20 balls and hit them to a target against nearly any amateur. If you feel froggy, bring your wallet.

Larry[/QUOTE]


Larry - you take yourself WAY too seriously, chief. I'm playing off 20 at the minute (I can almost feel half of the regulars turning their noses up at me right now!) but the last few weeks been playing to around 25 as I'm struggling with my long game. I read most of your posts, but you over complicate things. Half the stuff you come out with might well be applicable for a scratch golfer, but for someone trying to keep things simple it just doesn't work. If I took your advice from your last half dozen instructional posts I'd have, roughly, 67 swing thoughts racing through my head as I addressed the ball. Whereas I find if I stand there, relax, focus on maybe two things (which for me is (1) starting the swing with my shoulders in a one piece takeaway as opposed to being all arms and (2) swing around myself and not straight up and down) then I hit a good shot.

I'm sure you feel like you're constantly under personal attack, but half the time you leave yourself wide open for it. As for challening people on an internet forum to a spot of target golf.....well.....you really should know better, sir.

[QUOTE=Villegas]Larry - you take yourself WAY too seriously, chief. I'm playing off 20 at the minute (I can almost feel half of the regulars turning their noses up at me right now!) but the last few weeks been playing to around 25 as I'm struggling with my long game. I read most of your posts, but you over complicate things. Half the stuff you come out with might well be applicable for a scratch golfer, but for someone trying to keep things simple it just doesn't work. If I took your advice from your last half dozen instructional posts I'd have, roughly, 67 swing thoughts racing through my head as I addressed the ball. Whereas I find if I stand there, relax, focus on maybe two things (which for me is (1) starting the swing with my shoulders in a one piece takeaway as opposed to being all arms and (2) swing around myself and not straight up and down) then I hit a good shot.

I'm sure you feel like you're constantly under personal attack, but half the time you leave yourself wide open for it. As for challening people on an internet forum to a spot of target golf.....well.....you really should know better, sir.[/QUOTE]

just post a swing video, there's obviously room for improvement at 20. you should try to feel the shaft coming down on the swing plane:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFooP_CEQxk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFooP_CEQxk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[QUOTE=ripit35]just post a swing video, there's obviously room for improvement at 20. you should try to feel the shaft coming down on the swing plane:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFooP_CEQxk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dFooP_CEQxk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/QUOTE]


I'll try and get a mate to video me sometime soon and post it up here for you bastards to rip to shreds :D

Deffo room for improvment and I think I know what the problem is.....fixing it is easier than it sounds though :mad2: One day it'll click and I'll be off +3. *cough*

[QUOTE=alangbaker]There are lots of serious golfers here, Larry.

That's why we laugh so hard when an obvious 20+ handicapper is trying to tell us what "everyone" should be doing.

:)[/QUOTE]


Exactly what I was going to say..

[QUOTE=SoonerBS]Larry, I personally don't have anything against you. If it works for you then great, continue to use it. However, you tend to bring up Hogan and his book way too much for my liking. I bought and read Hogan's book and feel like I wasted about 15 hours of my life because his techniques were way too difficult for a 22 handicap player to understand (which is what I was at the time of reading it.) I may not agree with you on some of your posting, but feel free to fire away . . . . .[/QUOTE]

First, it is not a novel to be "read." "5 Lessons" is a set of very detailed instructions for every aspect of the golf swing. I suspect it was assembled from his notes taken during years of range practice. Several touring pros, champion golfers, have credited Hogan's book for their success as they advanced from amateur to pro and then champion. Nick Price always carries a copy in his golf bag. Leadbetter says a dozen others "modeled" their golf swing on Hogan and became successful pros. The best way to use "5 Lessons" is to open it to your subject of interest, STUDY only those pages carefully, and then try to do what he says--that might take days or weeks! He strongly advocates mirror and/or posed static practice. His half-swing and slow-motion drills set the standard when they came out in the 50s.

I believe dozens if not all currently developing pros still consider Hogan the "Master." They know the value of his contribution to golf in general. Nobody else is close.

Larry

[QUOTE=Villegas]I'm sure you feel like you're constantly under personal attack....[/QUOTE]

First, I see only a tiny fraction of the posts in only the one thread I follow in this forum--WHEN I check in every few days.

I ignore all but the serious golfers who seem to want to benefit from my experience. The others who just carp are just duffers who pretty much do their golfing while sitting at their computer. It takes all kinds.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]First, I see only a tiny fraction of the posts in only the one thread I follow in this forum--WHEN I check in every few days. [/QUOTE]

Please.

You insert your two cents all over the place whether on topic for that thread or not. And your posting record shows that you "check in" pretty much every day.

[QUOTE]I ignore all but the serious golfers who seem to want to benefit from my experience. The others who just carp are just duffers who pretty much do their golfing while sitting at their computer. It takes all kinds. [/QUOTE]

LOL

You're the one who's now saying his true handicap is in the 20s [I]and[/I] you've said previously that no one should listen to anyone who isn't at least a 10. :)

[QUOTE=Villegas]I'll try and get a mate to video me sometime soon and post it up here for you bastards to rip to shreds :D

Deffo room for improvment and I think I know what the problem is.....fixing it is easier than it sounds though :mad2: One day it'll click and I'll be off +3. *cough*[/QUOTE]

well, there's really no video that can be posted on here that is more pathetic than my chipping vid, it looked like i was having an epileptic seizure over the golf ball...... :P

Hmmmm I will say that Ernest Jones was a great teacher and one can learn a good deal from his take on the swing. I used this type of swing early on but I think its biggest issue is one can start 'casting' real easy. What he says about centrifical force is great stuff though. I went over to Percy Boomer and then to John Redman' swing which is nothing more then a modern take of Boomers teachings. I have been using this swing for a good while now with great results.Hogans 5 lessons sucks balls. It is way too technical and outside of Hogan posing for photographs his involvment in this work was next to none. It is an overated piece of crap. All this technical stuff you (Larry) preach I could not even take a crap with all of that in my head.

[QUOTE=Tee'd Off]Hmmmm I will say that Ernest Jones was a great teacher and one can learn a good deal from his take on the swing. I used this type of swing early on but I think its biggest issue is one can start 'casting' real easy. What he says about centrifical force is great stuff though. I went over to Percy Boomer and then to John Redman' swing which is nothing more then a modern take of Boomers teachings. I have been using this swing for a good while now with great results.Hogans 5 lessons sucks balls. It is way too technical and outside of Hogan posing for photographs his involvment in this work was next to none. It is an overated piece of crap. All this technical stuff you (Larry) preach I could not even take a crap with all of that in my head.[/QUOTE]

If you want to give up, play horseshoes.

But if you want to pursue golf, then just combine what we can learn from everything that is available. And it is easy. Hogan was right that the hips must lead the shoulders. You can do that by simply applying the "baseball" horizontal swing to your golf swing. Rehearse that, then bend over and swing. All teachers are correct about the importance of a solid stance- especially a stable back leg with weight moving onto our back HEEL as we backswing-- and then add Ernest Jone's centrifugal swing with ZERO hand action, arms swinging with hands staying in front of the torso-- and keep a very loose grip pressure to allow the clubhead to FLAIL (Percy Boomer) on its own to square up centrifugally. IT only works every time --UNLESS you get handsy.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]If you want to give up, play horseshoes.

But if you want to pursue golf, then just combine what we can learn from everything that is available. And it is easy. Hogan was right that the hips must lead the shoulders. You can do that by simply applying the "baseball" horizontal swing to your golf swing. Rehearse that, then bend over and swing. All teachers are correct about the importance of a solid stance- especially a stable back leg with weight moving onto our back HEEL as we backswing-- and then add Ernest Jone's centrifugal swing with ZERO hand action, arms swinging with hands staying in front of the torso-- and keep a very loose grip pressure to allow the clubhead to FLAIL (Percy Boomer) on its own to square up centrifugally. IT only works every time --UNLESS you get handsy.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I once heard that you should never take advice from anyone with a handicap higher than 10. Since you've admitted your 6 handicap is a fake, and your recent scores indicate a handicap that is a long way north of 18, I think you would have to agree that your advice should be evaluated in light of that fact, don't you agree?

We have seen you go back and forth from telling us it's the old teachers who know what they're doing to it's only the young pros who've received the latest info, and now back to the old pros. It seems to me that you are in no way qualified to tell us what "all teachers" would be correct about.

:)

I can speak with some personal experience with the old school methods. Ernest Jones teachings continue on in the work of Manuel de la Torre. The Jones/Torre method sees the hands (Jones)/arms (Torre) controling the swing with the body following along. This is nice but as I stated it can lead to a good deal of casting. Also, one detractor and the main one which Pro's cite is that the small muscles of the arms and hands crap out under pressure.

Percy Boomer (Englishman who taught in France after WW2) advocated that it was the larger muscles of the legs and hips that controled the swing. One would pivot his hips with the upper body going along for the ride. Simply put you pivot the hips so your left rear pocket faces the target. To start the downswing you bring your right front pocket around to face the target. The upper body just follows this motion. Here in the good ol USA this method was championed by Alex Morrison. I call Morrison the unsung hero of American golf because a good deal of Pro's who went on to shape the game here in the USA learned a good deal from him and his teachings. I can not for the life of me figure out why Morrison has fallen into virtual obscurity given he was the biggest teacher to impact the game of golf in the USA. Try and find his book and see how much you will have to pay for it! I find this type of swing is the one that is used by the vast majority of Pros. Mind you there are different takes on it but when ya boil it down its all the same just a new way of explaining it. John Redman is a teacher who subscribes to this swing and it is through him that I finally found a swing I could perfect and build on. The so-called modern method is a take on this swing which sees the arms in a one peice takeaway but reverts to this old school method with the lower body on the downswing. Also, David Lee's gravity golf is a take on this swing. It is a very good way on how to learn this type of swing and I know of several scratch players who use this method.

As for other swing methods outside of the two mentioned above well in my opinion they are gimmicks. Remember the square to square method in the 60's? Dick Aultman & Jim Flick championed this swing. It was a crock because it claimed to be a much easier type of swing with the early wrist break. If anything this type of swing made the game 100 X harder! A gimmick. Then there was Carl Lohren and his lead with the left ala shoulders. Guess what? It was junk too. I have to say the same for Jim Hardy' one plane swing. It is a gimmick that with time like the others above will fade away.......

The point here is there are two reliable ways to swing the club. The Jones/Torre/Jacobs/ & Merrins (swing the handle is the same thing) advocate a hands/arms approach while Boomer/Morrison advocate the lower body rules the swing. Both methods are quite simple to apply but require tons of time and practice to perfect. The one thing I can say is neither method is like the technical data found in Hogans 5 Lessons. I may not be a Pro but I have studied the swing and what I have stated here sums up about 4 years of reading. You can not mix the two methods. As it is obvious they are in opposition to one another hence why so much swing information appears to contradict itself.

So Larry you preach Jones and you preach Hogan. UMMMMM their approach to the swing is vastly different. This leads me to belive either you have mastered both methods and speak with some authority or you just dont know what the f*ck you are talking about.....which is it?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I would love to drop 10 or 20 balls and hit them to a target against nearly any amateur. If you feel froggy, bring your wallet.

Larry[/QUOTE]

i'm not an amatuer anymore.... but if our up for it i'll take that bet... and i'm serious...

[QUOTE=pingman360]i'm not an amatuer anymore.... but if our up for it i'll take that bet... and i'm serious...[/QUOTE]


You turned pro?

Congrats.

Fack me I have ordered this book just to settle the debate for myself. Back in the days when I first started I would sit on the tee box, telling myself the myriad of things I should be doing instead of trying to feel it.Kind of like Hogans putting yips lol. If I get that feeling when I start reading I will probably put the book down and try reading it again in five years.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I was hoping this forum had at least ONE serious golfer--

I won't waste much time here in future.


larry[/QUOTE] Hey Larry Ive read that book swinging into golf. It was written back in 1934. I have a copy that is quite old. I would tell anyone to read that book , the way he explains everything is so clear to the mind that you cant help but listen to sir Ernest Jones.:thumbsup: Deffinetly a good read

Checkout 'On Learning Golf' by Percy Boomer which is also a classic but a different type of swing. A modern take on Boomer is Redman' Essentials of the Golf swing.

Hey Larry,

I don't want to get involved in technical swing aspects as, unlike you, I don't proclaim to be very learned in that area, but when you start posting dumb things like 'move your weight onto the heel of your right foot' I have to call you on BS. That is probably singly the most wrong thing you have ever posted (and that is a pretty strong field right there). I would suggest that you would be hard pressed to find a single professional golfer who intentionally moves his weight onto the right heel in the backswing, anybody with even the faintest idea of the swing knows that that's death. Moving onto the right heel moves your weight back and away, and invites a lateral shift right (for righties), which robs the swng of coli and power, and moves the spine angle away from where it was at address. From there all sorts of problems arise, not the least being the distinct possibility fo not being able to move the weight back to the front foot on the downswing and ending with a reverse pivot. To return to impact in the correct position fron the right heel would take all sorts of compensatory moves and timing issues that would masively over complicate the downswing. I've seen plenty of golfers over the years who rock back onto the heel and outside of the right foot on the backswing, and every one of them is a chopper with a reverse pivot and a weak high slice ball flight.

And as you love quoting what all the old farts used to do, Jack Nickalus has said that he tries to keep his weight balanced on the insteps, and no further than the middle of the balls of his feet during the swing. He realises that it would be nearly impossible to consiutently return the clubhead to a good impact position if the weight gets far beyond the inside of the right foot on the backswing. And even you would agree that he should know, shouldn't he Larry?

[QUOTE=Tee'd Off] The point here is there are two reliable ways to swing the club. The Jones/Torre/Jacobs/ & Merrins (swing the handle is the same thing) advocate a hands/arms approach while Boomer/Morrison advocate the lower body rules the swing. Both methods are quite simple to apply but require tons of time and practice to perfect. The one thing I can say is neither method is like the technical data found in Hogans 5 Lessons. I may not be a Pro but I have studied the swing and what I have stated here sums up about 4 years of reading. You can not mix the two methods. As it is obvious they are in opposition to one another hence why so much swing information appears to contradict itself.

So Larry you preach Jones and you preach Hogan. UMMMMM their approach to the swing is vastly different. This leads me to belive either you have mastered both methods and speak with some authority or you just dont know what the f*ck you are talking about.....which is it?[/QUOTE]

Pretty good summary. The mystery surrounding the golf swing is part of what makes it so interesting. While the Hogan book may be body, the man clearly swung consistent with the Bobby Jones hands arms method. His arms and legs swung, his hips and shoulders turned, providing subtle propulsion at most.

My opinion is the swing should be arms driven. Tension is the big killer and the body method, as does all the technical horsesh!t a certain moronic know-it-all spouts on this site adds to tension and constricts the ability of the arms to do their thing. I also think the vast majority of pros are arms driven as well, Tiger included. They couldn't have reached their level without a lack of tension leading to the arms driving things.

But the problem is there are body people and arms people that insist they're method is correct and they'll look at the very same swing and swear each of their schools of thought predominate.

I submit a swing with minimum tension has to rely on the arms while leveraging early contributions on the downswing from the feet, legs, hips and trunk. Over the top is a sequence problem, more than an arms problem. I wasn't familiar with Flick's involvement with the square to square method, but I find him to be far and away the most credible of the well known guys with what he's had to say over the last 10 years or so.

Whether you agree with that or not, the following link provides a great interview with Flick by Charlie Rose in 1997 when Tiger was just emerging. As usual, Charlie has an amazing sense of timing in interrupting his subjects just as they're about to get to the most interesting and useful part of what they're saying.

[url]http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/5350[/url]

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]....[B]an avid tennis player for 15+ years before that and a handball player before that[/B].....
Larry[/QUOTE]
Does this mean if we log onto tennis and handball forums we can see your shitt-eatin grin looking back at us from countless posts about irrelevant shite?

[QUOTE=alangbaker]Sorry, but I once heard that you should never take advice from anyone with a handicap higher than 10.
:)[/QUOTE]

Actually I played Saturday morning and shot 33/37, 3 birdies on the front. Hit ALL the fairways and most of the greens. I did exactly what Ernest Jones suggests and it works.

I forgot to post, but will post 99 or so, because I still need to get my handicap index up.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Actually I played Saturday morning and shot 33/37, 3 birdies on the front. Hit ALL the fairways and most of the greens. I did exactly what Ernest Jones suggests and it works.

I forgot to post, but will post 99 or so, because I still need to get my handicap index up.

Larry[/QUOTE]

how many mulligans/gimmes?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Actually I played Saturday morning and shot 33/37, 3 birdies on the front. Hit ALL the fairways and most of the greens. I did exactly what Ernest Jones suggests and it works.

I forgot to post, but will post 99 or so, because I still need to get my handicap index up.[/QUOTE]

So you've given up on even the pretense of honesty...

...that's progress of a sort, I guess.

:)

[QUOTE=ripit35]how many mulligans/gimmes?[/QUOTE]

My question would be, "What was par?".

:)

[QUOTE=Tee'd Off So Larry you preach Jones and you preach Hogan. UMMMMM their approach to the swing is vastly different. This leads me to belive either you have mastered both methods and speak with some authority or you just dont know what the f*ck you are talking about.....which is it?[/QUOTE]

The two methods are NOT much different and they do not conflict. In fact Manuel De La Torre worked with Hogan extensively down in Texas. They saw no conflict in each other's method.

For me it is simple-- take the firm foundation and good footwork advocated by Hogan, ensure your mechanics of setup and backswing are solid-- your movement places the club on plane, etc. and then swing centrifugally with VERY light grip pressure and make a good follow-through as taught by STC. Envision the circle of the swinging clubhead, especially the portion AFTER impact, "complete the swing" to ensure I don't decelerate.

I think the best way to feel this is to do what Jim Flick suggests-- and what he said he would teach ALL beginners if he could start over. Make horizontal "baseball" swings while exaggerating the weight shift-- actually LIFT the front foot when fully turned back-- then PLANT the front foot and LIFT the back foot after you swing through. Keep the grip pressure very light so the club is allowed to flip into a full wrist set with momentum of the backswing. Then as you start forward with hips leading, leave the club behind as your lower body leads your shoulders which lead your arms which lead your hands which lead your club --"lag."

A famous "top 25" PGA Pro urges students to "turn, plant, swing." The student is to consciously turn fully back with his weight on his back foot heel, then PLANT the front foot while fully coiled, then swing around the front leg "post." Practice it in slow motion at first. Eventually it will be your swing.

Larry

You're going to post a 99 after "shooting 70"? Wow you're a complete douchebag. What's your home course? I'd like to speak to the handicap committee please.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]The two methods are NOT much different and they do not conflict. In fact Manuel De La Torre worked with Hogan extensively down in Texas. They saw no conflict in each other's method.

For me it is simple-- take the firm foundation and good footwork advocated by Hogan, ensure your mechanics of setup and backswing are solid-- your movement places the club on plane, etc. and then swing centrifugally with VERY light grip pressure and make a good follow-through as taught by STC. Envision the circle of the swinging clubhead, especially the portion AFTER impact, "complete the swing" to ensure I don't decelerate.

I think the best way to feel this is to do what Jim Flick suggests-- and what he said he would teach ALL beginners if he could start over. Make horizontal "baseball" swings while exaggerating the weight shift-- actually LIFT the front foot when fully turned back-- then PLANT the front foot and LIFT the back foot after you swing through. Keep the grip pressure very light so the club is allowed to flip into a full wrist set with momentum of the backswing. Then as you start forward with hips leading, leave the club behind as your lower body leads your shoulders which lead your arms which lead your hands which lead your club --"lag."

A famous "top 25" PGA Pro urges students to "turn, plant, swing." The student is to consciously turn fully back with his weight on his back foot heel, then PLANT the front foot while fully coiled, then swing around the front leg "post." Practice it in slow motion at first. Eventually it will be your swing.

Larry[/QUOTE]

but centrifugal force will push the clubface out, unless you hold it with your forearms, clubhead doesn't travel in a circle on the downswing. it's an oval. You don't create lag with your hips, and if your shoulders lead your arms, you are coming over the top. Everything is connected and should stay connected throughout the swing, saying one thing leads another is disconnecting the components of the swing, you are a dipshit.

Why do you think you have to change your swing thoughts every other week? Probably because what you think is fundamentally correct, is wrong, so you find one little drill that temporarily fixes your swing, only exposing another fault, and another drill, another temporary fix, and another fault. Larry, you are gonna be this way so long as you think hips-shoulders-arms-hands-club.......

eyes and ears and mouth and nose....

hips-shoulders-arms-hands-club, arms-hands-club...

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]The two methods are NOT much different and they do not conflict. In fact Manuel De La Torre worked with Hogan extensively down in Texas. They saw no conflict in each other's method.

For me it is simple-- take the firm foundation and good footwork advocated by Hogan, ensure your mechanics of setup and backswing are solid-- your movement places the club on plane, etc. and then swing centrifugally with VERY light grip pressure and make a good follow-through as taught by STC. Envision the circle of the swinging clubhead, especially the portion AFTER impact, "complete the swing" to ensure I don't decelerate.

I think the best way to feel this is to do what Jim Flick suggests-- and what he said he would teach ALL beginners if he could start over. Make horizontal "baseball" swings while exaggerating the weight shift-- actually LIFT the front foot when fully turned back-- then PLANT the front foot and LIFT the back foot after you swing through. Keep the grip pressure very light so the club is allowed to flip into a full wrist set with momentum of the backswing. Then as you start forward with hips leading, leave the club behind as your lower body leads your shoulders which lead your arms which lead your hands which lead your club --"lag."

A famous "top 25" PGA Pro urges students to "turn, plant, swing." The student is to consciously turn fully back with his weight on his back foot heel, then PLANT the front foot while fully coiled, then swing around the front leg "post." Practice it in slow motion at first. Eventually it will be your swing.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Larry, are you working with a pro to help you incorporate these ideas into your swing? It sounds like you're getting a lot of good information but too much information is rarely constructive when it comes to the golf swing. I was just curious as to how you are going about implementing these ideas. Maybe this has been talked about before, sorry if it has.

[QUOTE=ripit35]but centrifugal force will push the clubface out, unless you hold it with your forearms, clubhead doesn't travel in a circle on the downswing. it's an oval. You don't create lag with your hips, and if your shoulders lead your arms, you are coming over the top. Everything is connected and should stay connected throughout the swing, saying one thing leads another is disconnecting the components of the swing, you are a dipshit.[/QUOTE]


Tell it to Hogan--as he explains "the most important thing in the golf swing--which that the hips lead the shoulders, I would love to be standing there as you tell him he is a dip....

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0[/url]

Larry

[QUOTE=SDB1]Larry, are you working with a pro to help you incorporate these ideas into your swing? It sounds like you're getting a lot of good information but too much information is rarely constructive when it comes to the golf swing. I was just curious as to how you are going about implementing these ideas. Maybe this has been talked about before, sorry if it has.[/QUOTE]

I am always taking lessons-- enough with the same teacher that I KNOW what he would approve and disapprove of. I have discussed all this with him-- and nothing is even slightly controversial-- everything I said is solid, accepted, fundamental golf swing teaching by the PGA.

And I applied it last weekend--shot 33/37 on an easy course from the white tees. I was playing with high handicap friends. But I hit most fairways and at least half the greens. I made some putts.

Larry

[QUOTE=Mward2002]You're going to post a 99 after "shooting 70"? Wow you're a complete douchebag. What's your home course? I'd like to speak to the handicap committee please.[/QUOTE]

It is just a game! No different than tennis, horseshoes, or ping-pong. Lighten up--and get a life!

Our handicap chairman dropped out of the club when he was laid off his job. He resigned his membership because he keeps golf in the proper perspective-- first there is groceries and gas, then comes golf.

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]

And I applied it last weekend--shot 33/37 on an easy course from the white tees. I was playing with high handicap friends. But I hit most fairways and at least half the greens. I made some putts.

Larry[/QUOTE]
This didn't happen unless it is posted against your index. Your OTT move may allow you to break 80 on a putt-putt course, but never on a golf course that requires a full swing. Billy Mayfair is a slice putter, so maybe your OTT/spinout move wouldn't be too detrimental to your putting stroke.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I am always taking lessons-- enough with the same teacher that I KNOW what he would approve and disapprove of. I have discussed all this with him-- and nothing is even slightly controversial-- everything I said is solid, accepted, fundamental golf swing teaching by the PGA.

And I applied it last weekend--shot 33/37 on an easy course from the white tees. I was playing with high handicap friends. But I hit most fairways and at least half the greens. I made some putts.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Just checking. The golf swing is a learning process and it helps to have a competent professional guide us sometimes. As far as sources for inspiration you could certainly do worse than Hogan. Where did you play?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]It is just a game! No different than tennis, horseshoes, or ping-pong. Lighten up--and get a life!

[/QUOTE]

So you're saying you cheated when you participated in those sports too?

Are you serious about shooting 70 and then posting 99 (to get your handicap up) or are you just flaming now?

WTF do you think your handicap should be???

If you posted enough honest scores it would already be correct.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]This didn't happen unless it is posted against your index. Your OTT move may allow you to break 80 on a putt-putt course, but never on a golf course that requires a full swing. Billy Mayfair is a slice putter, so maybe your OTT/spinout move wouldn't be too detrimental to your putting stroke.[/QUOTE]

whatever you say, ha.

Larry

[QUOTE=SDB1]Just checking. The golf swing is a learning process and it helps to have a competent professional guide us sometimes. As far as sources for inspiration you could certainly do worse than Hogan. Where did you play?[/QUOTE]

That was "The Vineyard" in Escondido. I think slope only 120 or so from the whites. 6400 yards or so, but level greens, few traps, wide fairways, not many ways to get in big trouble with a small miss.

larry

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]So you're saying you cheated when you participated in those sports too?

Are you serious about shooting 70 and then posting 99 (to get your handicap up) or are you just flaming now?

WTF do you think your handicap should be???

If you posted enough honest scores it would already be correct.[/QUOTE]
Of course you're right. Larry doesn't seem to even understand the handicap system to be posting 99's and 100's. Only the top 10 out of your last 20 count towards your index, so all those super high scores would be thrown out anyway. I personally believe he is shooting those high scores legitimately. Have you seen his swing, or did he take it down already? It was a terribly upright, OTT swing with a spinout at the end. It also had the swingspeed you would expect out of an unalthetic geriatric. 100's are definitely in play, given the video evidence.

I have no problem with keeping priorities first - 4 walls, electric, food bill, transportation (gas and car payment if applicable)

What I do have a problem with is someone adding 29 shots to their score because they feel they're playing TOO well. Isn't the point of the game to get in the hole in the fewest amount of strokes? So why would you add 29 to your score unless you had 29 penalty strokes.

Are you counting 70 strokes to the green and then you putt?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]Tell it to Hogan--as he explains "the most important thing in the golf swing--which that the hips lead the shoulders, I would love to be standing there as you tell him he is a dip....

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0[/url]

Larry[/QUOTE]

that shoulder dip causes me to hit high fades, and quite honestly, i don't know how anyone gets the clubhead square when their shoulders are titled up at impact. So Larry, since you know everything, how do they do it? strong grip?

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Of course you're right. Larry doesn't seem to even understand the handicap system to be posting 99's and 100's. Only the top 10 out of your last 20 count towards your index, so all those super high scores would be thrown out anyway. I personally believe he is shooting those high scores legitimately. Have you seen his swing, or did he take it down already? It was a terribly upright, OTT swing with a spinout at the end. It also had the swingspeed you would expect out of an unalthetic geriatric. 100's are definitely in play, given the video evidence.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I saw it and I agree. Larry is just a fantasist 90-100 shooter who obsesses about the golf swing, pays thousands of dollars for lessons and comes on golf forums to regale us all with his intricate swing knowledge. All the while struggling to break 100 and fantasizing about being a scratch golfer.

Dreams are free I suppose, even if all those wasted lessons aren't. :D

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]That was "The Vineyard" in Escondido. I think slope only 120 or so from the whites. 6400 yards or so, but level greens, few traps, wide fairways, not many ways to get in big trouble with a small miss.

larry[/QUOTE]

I like the Vineyard. I've shot even there twice from the tips. Nice elevation changes and a few interesting holes. 15 plays pretty long for it's length if there is wind. I like that course because it's pretty open once you get past the first few holes. I hate the tee shot on one with trouble right and left especially when I'm running late for my round and don't warm up. I played Mt.Woodsen last week and had a nice disastrous round I think I shot an 82 with two lost balls but I guess that's the nature of that course. Scenic as hell though!

[QUOTE=ripit35]that shoulder dip causes me to hit high fades, and quite honestly, i don't know how anyone gets the clubhead square when their shoulders are titled up at impact. So Larry, since you know everything, how do they do it? strong grip?[/QUOTE]

I don't know about dipping. Hogan did a great job of keeping his hands ahead of the ball and releasing the right arm down the line after impact. If you dip your shoulder and your spine angle is to upright your face would be wide upen at impact. Hogan is more a one planer so his right shoulder chasing through shouldn't pose much of a problem.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I am always taking lessons-- enough with the same teacher that I KNOW what he would approve and disapprove of. I have discussed all this with him-- and nothing is even slightly controversial-- everything I said is solid, accepted, fundamental golf swing teaching by the PGA.

And I applied it last weekend--shot 33/37 on an easy course from the white tees. I was playing with high handicap friends. But I hit most fairways and at least half the greens. I made some putts.

Larry[/QUOTE]
Ono .............He said always taking lessons.........It soon gets to a point where you end up just paying for their company and conversation, and them telling you the same shi t over and over again.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Of course you're right. Larry doesn't seem to even understand the handicap system to be posting 99's and 100's. Only the top 10 out of your last 20 count towards your index, so all those super high scores would be thrown out anyway. I personally believe he is shooting those high scores legitimately. Have you seen his swing, or did he take it down already? It was a terribly upright, OTT swing with a spinout at the end. It also had the swingspeed you would expect out of an unalthetic geriatric. 100's are definitely in play, given the video evidence.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINRDQFpceA[/url]

This is the swing that had TWO closest to pins in a recent tournament--and won all the skins. Broke 80 at Redhawk-- a slope 138 course under tournament conditions. Not pretty, but it repeats and it is very effective. See ya out there.

Larry

I actually feel as though I learned more about the golf swing from this video you posted, which shows a bunch of dogs sniffing each others' asses.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NUrMe83sg&NR=1[/url]

[QUOTE=Mward2002]
What I do have a problem with is someone adding 29 shots to their score[/QUOTE]

I intend to post high scores to bring my handicap index down to my current ability-- about a 10.

I accidently got my index down to 6 two years ago by running out to play 9 holes and posting the scores--I was unaware the system would put two 38s from the white tees together and drop my index to 6 almost overnight. Now I want to get that corrected. I am simply doing what a Handicap Chairman suggested. The system will ignore every high score until the number of such scores is high enough that it must factor them in. So I have a long way to go to get that down to something near my actual ability.

Larry

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I actually feel as though I learned more about the golf swing from this video you posted, which shows a bunch of dogs sniffing each others' asses.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NUrMe83sg&NR=1[/url][/QUOTE]

That was a morning on "dog beach" a few miles from here--between Del Mar and Solana Beach, CA. In Winter when it is legal to allow them off-leash, I take my two Standard Poodles down there. That morning I shot a video clip and put it on Youtube so my relatives in other states could see it-- without sending them a monster size file. Glad you enjoy it.

There are other videos there showing the Poodles in our pool. Have fun!

(and get your own life!)

Larry

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I intend to post high scores to bring my handicap index down to my current ability-- about a 10.

I accidently got my index down to 6 two years ago by running out to play 9 holes and posting the scores--I was unaware the system would put two 38s from the white tees together and drop my index to 6 almost overnight. Now I want to get that corrected. I am simply doing what a Handicap Chairman suggested. The system will ignore every high score until the number of such scores is high enough that it must factor them in. So I have a long way to go to get that down to something near my actual ability.

Larry[/QUOTE]

You've had at least two weeks to think of an explanation as to why posting wrong scores isn't cheating and lying, and this innacurate, illogical, ridiculous b.s. is the best you can come up with?

I suggested you go with :"my dog ate it". It makes as much sense and is just as plausible.

You better take another two weeks and come up with something else.

[QUOTE=SDB1]I don't know about dipping. Hogan did a great job of keeping his hands ahead of the ball and releasing the right arm down the line after impact. If you dip your shoulder and your spine angle is to upright your face would be wide upen at impact. Hogan is more a one planer so his right shoulder chasing through shouldn't pose much of a problem.[/QUOTE]

i kinda got the move figured out, you gotta have good posture and get your left shoulder low on the backswing, otherwise, everything becomes too upright, and the spraying ensues... i can almost make it though, just need some more practice, i'm all for gaining power, not that i really need it :P

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I intend to post high scores to bring my handicap index down to my current ability-- about a 10.

I accidently got my index down to 6 two years ago by running out to play 9 holes and posting the scores--I was unaware the system would put two 38s from the white tees together and drop my index to 6 almost overnight. Now I want to get that corrected. I am simply doing what a Handicap Chairman suggested. The system will ignore every high score until the number of such scores is high enough that it must factor them in. So I have a long way to go to get that down to something near my actual ability.

Larry[/QUOTE]

because a 10 handicapper has the ability to shoot par :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I intend to post high scores to bring my handicap index down to my current ability-- about a 10.

I accidently got my index down to 6 two years ago by running out to play 9 holes and posting the scores--I was unaware the system would put two 38s from the white tees together and drop my index to 6 almost overnight. Now I want to get that corrected. I am simply doing what a Handicap Chairman suggested. The system will ignore every high score until the number of such scores is high enough that it must factor them in. So I have a long way to go to get that down to something near my actual ability.

Larry[/QUOTE]

I think the system takes your lowest scores in the last 20 rounds. Scores from two years ago shouldn't be a factor unless you've played less than 20 rounds since then..

[QUOTE=SDB1]I think the system takes your lowest scores in the last 20 rounds. Scores from two years ago shouldn't be a factor unless you've played less than 20 rounds since then..[/QUOTE]

If that were true, I wouldn't need to post high scores to reset the system. But those scores that were actually 9-hole "rounds" are still there giving me a 6 handicap. The system creates an index based on the average of your lowest 10 scores--or 20 lowest 9 holes scores-- No date factor at all! So the only way to correct an erroneous low index is to post 10 scores as high as those low scores were too low.

So that is what I will do--and I couldn't care less what you think.

Larry

I find it humorous he used the fact he was a 6 hdcp to give some of his previous posts credibility.

From the USGA site...

If a player's scoring record contains 20 scores, the best 10 Handicap Differentials of the most recent 20 scores are used to calculate the Handicap Index.

So, Larry, if you played 20 rounds this year your best 10 differentials of your MOST RECENT 20 scores would be used. You're a cheater.

"No date factor at all!" MOST RECENT 20 SCORES implies very strongly there is a date factor involved. You've read all the swing books, try reading a rules/handicap manual book.

"The system creates an index based on the average of your lowest 10 scores--or 20 lowest 9 holes scores-- No date factor at all! So the only way to correct an erroneous low index is to post 10 scores as high as those low scores were too low."


99.9% of hacker cheat golfers think this is true. That's why good golfers hate net tournaments and despise most hackers. We know you weren't anywhere near a 6 anyway, so we don't think you're THAT much of a cheat. You're just bringing the vanity cap back to reality. But you could do it the ethical way...play some honest golf and enter honest scores.

he also wants to post high scores because it will bring his handicap up to his ability, but couldn't he just post his real scores and THAT WILL REFLECT HIS ABILITY?


Let's face it, he lied about his 6 handicap, lies about hitting ALL the fairways, yet just HALF the greens, lies about his 6 iron distance, lies about his scores.......

IMO the only thing he hasn't lied about are the scores he posted, 99, 100, etc... (he just said he was playing with a group and shot 70, but posted 99... would you really post 19 strokes greater in front of the people you just played with?) Of course not, because 99 was your real score.....

[QUOTE=collegegolfer], try reading a rules/handicap manual book.[/QUOTE]

You're making the erroneous assumption that I give a crap. I don't.

Amateur golf is just another GAME! Let me repeat that, GAME! Something to occupy the time of amateurs old farts. Amateur golf is no more important than horseshoes or croquet; Lets get real and keep it in perspective. Most of us should remember how important what we shot today is to our wives--especially if she was working.......

Now that I am confident that I can play golf well enough anytime I want to, starting Saturday morning I intend to resume tennis--doubles. I get a MUCH better workout--

Larry

I'm still waiting for a reply to how there's no date factor involved when it clearly states otherwise in the USGA manual for handicaps. There it was!

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]You're making the erroneous assumption that I give a crap. I don't.

Amateur golf is just another GAME! Let me repeat that, GAME! Something to occupy the time of amateurs old farts. Amateur golf is no more important than horseshoes or croquet; Lets get real and keep it in perspective. Most of us should remember how important what we shot today is to our wives--especially if she was working.......

Now that I am confident that I can play golf well enough anytime I want to, starting Saturday morning I intend to resume tennis--doubles. I get a MUCH better workout--

Larry[/QUOTE]

Obama is less full of shite than you, Larry...

Now suddenly you don't care, cause you've been proven fraud.
Now suddenly you've quit golf, cause it's been proven you are 20+ chopper

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]You're making the erroneous assumption that I give a crap. I don't.

Amateur golf is just another GAME! Let me repeat that, GAME! Something to occupy the time of amateurs old farts. Amateur golf is no more important than horseshoes or croquet; Lets get real and keep it in perspective. Most of us should remember how important what we shot today is to our wives--especially if she was working.......

Now that I am confident that I can play golf well enough anytime I want to, starting Saturday morning I intend to resume tennis--doubles. I get a MUCH better workout--

Larry[/QUOTE]

If that's your attitude about golf you shouldn't need a handicap. So save yourself $25/year and spend it on tennis balls. I hope you don't play in handicapped tournaments...team games or individual. If you were at my club I'd turn you in for being a cheat. Someone email his course this post. They'll yank his 'cap in no time. Remember to keep the tennis discussions in the non golf section.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]You're making the erroneous assumption that I give a crap. I don't.

Amateur golf is just another GAME! Let me repeat that, GAME! Something to occupy the time of amateurs old farts. Amateur golf is no more important than horseshoes or croquet; Lets get real and keep it in perspective. Most of us should remember how important what we shot today is to our wives--especially if she was working.......

Now that I am confident that I can play golf well enough anytime I want to, starting Saturday morning I intend to resume tennis--doubles. I get a MUCH better workout--

Larry[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I'm bored tonight. You sure do give long winded posts for not caring. I have a feeling inside you do care. But to save face in front of your electronic peers you're pretending like you don't care. The problem is your peers are seeing right through it and you've lost 99.9% of their respect. That was assuming you had 0.1% of their respect in the first place, which may be higher than reality. Do remember, as difficult as it is, if you admit to your mistakes and apologize and act like who you are, instead of who you want to be, you will slowly rebuild your credibility with this online forum and after a while we will probably enjoy you on here for reasons other than humor, irony, and hypocrisy.

Sincerely yours,

College

I can't believe ho many farken posts have been on this thread since I logged off yesterday. I gotta hand it to you Larry, you're the King when it comes to raking up huge threads.

But in spite of all your responses, I'm still waiting to hear form you about the 'put your weight onto your right heeel' BS. I'll take your silence as an admission of defeat on this topic. Good to see you're man enough to own up when you get it wrong.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]If that were true, I wouldn't need to post high scores to reset the system. But those scores that were actually 9-hole "rounds" are still there giving me a 6 handicap. The system creates an index based on the average of your lowest 10 scores--or 20 lowest 9 holes scores-- No date factor at all! So the only way to correct an erroneous low index is to post 10 scores as high as those low scores were too low.

So that is what I will do--and I couldn't care less what you think.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Larry, think about how the index system works. If there really was no time limitation you would be a 6 handicap your entire life since it's only based on your lowest scores. In their wisdom the USGA decided to only look at the 20 most current rounds posted so that older rounds would expire as new rounds are added. This allows your index to change along with your game. This happens as fast or as slow as you post your rounds.

Only 15 more and this thread reaches 100. Your logic is flawless SDB, so flawless I would venture to guess it is completely wrong. As you noticed, I mentioned this same thing to Larry and he replied with logic of his own stating he doesn't care about the game any more and is going to play tennis instead because it's a better workout. Yet, he mentioned playing doubles. If he's looking for a workout, singles would require more running than doubles, in my opinion. So I find his logic flawed. I suppose his friends (plywood cutouts of people) do make the job of rounding up the balls quite a workout. 14 more now, correct?

When I played tennis we didn't always have a line umpire and relied on making honest calls on line balls at our end of the court. I can imagine what playing Larry would be like. EVERY serve that is close to the line would be "Long"

EVERY shot that is close to the base or side line would be "Out"

I know because I came up against pricks just like him and it usually required a volunteer linesman to be found to avoid the participants coming to blows!

But hell, it's ONLY a GAME!

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I am always taking lessons-- enough with the same teacher that I KNOW what he would approve and disapprove of. I have discussed all this with him-- and nothing is even slightly controversial-- everything I said is solid, accepted, fundamental golf swing teaching by the PGA. [/QUOTE]

You always say that, Larry...

...and then you turn around in 2 to 6 months and say that something completely contradictory is "solid, accepted, fundamental golf swing teaching by the PGA."

[QUOTE]And I applied it last weekend--shot 33/37 on an easy course from the white tees. I was playing with high handicap friends. But I hit most fairways and at least half the greens. I made some putts.[/QUOTE]

I call bull****. You claim you shot 70? What was par: 54? (And didn't you recently say that you only play from the blues?). Name the course, Larry.

What we know for certain is that neither that score, nor the earlier one you claimed of about the same numbers, has been posted to your handicap....

[QUOTE=SDB1]Larry, think about how the index system works. If there really was no time limitation you would be a 6 handicap your entire life since it's only based on your lowest scores. In their wisdom the USGA decided to only look at the 20 most current rounds posted so that older rounds would expire as new rounds are added. This allows your index to change along with your game. This happens as fast or as slow as you post your rounds.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't bother, SDB.

His claims about how those alleged 9 hole rounds are affect his handicap are just so much hot air. (To put it simply enough for you, Larry: you are lying).

[QUOTE=Larryrsf][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINRDQFpceA[/url]

This is the swing that had TWO closest to pins in a recent tournament--and won all the skins. Broke 80 at Redhawk-- a slope 138 course under tournament conditions. Not pretty, but it repeats and it is very effective. See ya out there.[/QUOTE]

You didn't break 80 at Redhawk.

And you're now touting a swing that is more upright than the one I made that had you claiming I "broke the pane"...

Why is that? Were you wrong then, or are you wrong now?

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]I intend to post high scores to bring my handicap index down to my current ability-- about a 10.[/QUOTE]

So each time you bragged about being a 6, you were lying, right?

[/QUOTE]I accidently got my index down to 6 two years ago by running out to play 9 holes and posting the scores--I was unaware the system would put two 38s from the white tees together and drop my index to 6 almost overnight. Now I want to get that corrected. I am simply doing what a Handicap Chairman suggested. The system will ignore every high score until the number of such scores is high enough that it must factor them in. So I have a long way to go to get that down to something near my actual ability.[/QUOTE]

You're simply lying. Your last posted 9 hole score was from November 2006 and the earliest score used in your 18 hole handicap computation is from April 2007.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]That was "The Vineyard" in Escondido. I think slope only 120 or so from the whites. 6400 yards or so, but level greens, few traps, wide fairways, not many ways to get in big trouble with a small miss.[/QUOTE]

Wow. You're simply a liar. The Vineyard is not "6400 yards or so" from the white tees. The fact is that it's not even 6200 yards.

And you never shot 33/37 for 18 holes of a 6160 yard course.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]If that were true, I wouldn't need to post high scores to reset the system. But those scores that were actually 9-hole "rounds" are still there giving me a 6 handicap. The system creates an index based on the average of your lowest 10 scores--or 20 lowest 9 holes scores-- No date factor at all! So the only way to correct an erroneous low index is to post 10 scores as high as those low scores were too low. [/QUOTE]

You are simply incorrect. The system takes the best 10 of your latest 20 rounds.

And the record at your handicap website clearly shows this:

[URL="http://www.idcreports.com/members/member.html?k=s&p=psearch&MBRNBR=568470"]Larry's scoring record[/URL]

[QUOTE]So that is what I will do--and I couldn't care less what you think.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Because you're all about you, aren't you? :)

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]You're making the erroneous assumption that I give a crap. I don't.[/QUOTE]

'Translation: "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts!"'

I'll leave you to guess who I might be quoting...

:)

[QUOTE=SDB1]Larry, think about how the index system works. If there really was no time limitation you would be a 6 handicap your entire life since it's only based on your lowest scores. In their wisdom the USGA decided to only look at the 20 most current rounds posted so that older rounds would expire as new rounds are added. This allows your index to change along with your game. This happens as fast or as slow as you post your rounds.[/QUOTE]

For someone who claims to be an engineer, he's not very good at figuring out the implications of his claims, is he?

[QUOTE=alangbaker]You are simply incorrect. The system takes the best 10 of your latest 20 rounds.

And the record at your handicap website clearly shows this:

[URL="http://www.idcreports.com/members/member.html?k=s&p=psearch&MBRNBR=568470"]Larry's scoring record[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Wow, Larry. Your scores are like stock market.

Another masterpiece thread by LarryAB. Bravo. I'm not sure I've ever encountered someone so wrong about so many things. Even College and SDB1, your semi-supporters, have abandoned ship due to your absurd bullshitt.
100 posts is just around the corner.
In closing, Hogan sucks.

I think that Larry is the reincarnation of Prostatus, as a white man. Both are certifiably full of dung. Larry you don't by chance work at Golf Galaxy, do you?

One more for the century mark. Who is going to have the honor?

Kapoooooow!!!! 100!