• 07-27-2011
    Kiwi Player
    So is the US going to default on it's debt next week or what?
    This is golf related. The inherent weakness in the USD over the past two years has meant that the NZD is hitting historical highs against the greenback. A few years back the natural exchange rate for the NZD was approximately 55-60c in the dollar but over the past three years it has been hovering around the low-mid seventies and this past week has climbed through the previous high of 82.5 to hit 87.5c.

    This makes ho'ing golf equipment off E-Bay and sites like Rock Bottom Golf so much more viable. So my question is do I need to get my golf purchases in this week whilst we are hovering around the 87.5cent mark? Or should I wait until next week to see if the US defaults and the NZD climbs through 90cents?
  • 07-27-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=Kiwi Player;248699]This is golf related. The inherent weakness in the USD over the past two years has meant that the NZD is hitting historical highs against the greenback. A few years back the natural exchange rate for the NZD was approximately 55-60c in the dollar but over the past three years it has been hovering around the low-mid seventies and this past week has climbed through the previous high of 82.5 to hit 87.5c.

    This makes ho'ing golf equipment off E-Bay and sites like Rock Bottom Golf so much more viable. So my question is do I need to get my golf purchases in this week whilst we are hovering around the 87.5cent mark? Or should I wait until next week to see if the US defaults and the NZD climbs through 90cents?[/QUOTE]

    I never see anything worth purchasing on Rock Bottom Golf. I don't like that little cave man guy they have as their mascot either. It's pretty pathetic that you see just about everything Callaway has come out with over the last 2 years on that website. I don't think I've ever bought anything from Rock Bottom.

    As for Ebay, don't your shipping costs negate any savings you get from the favorable exchange rate?
  • 07-27-2011
    Kiwi Player
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248700]I never see anything worth purchasing on Rock Bottom Golf. I don't like that little cave man guy they have as their mascot either. It's pretty pathetic that you see just about everything Callaway has come out with over the last 2 years on that website. I don't think I've ever bought anything from Rock Bottom.

    [B]As for Ebay, don't your shipping costs negate any savings you get from the favorable exchange rate?[/B][/QUOTE]

    No way. We get totally ripped off by retailers down here. It's only about $30 to ship a single club like a driver and only about $60 to ship something much heavier like a full set of irons.

    If I can pick up a set of new irons for say $499 off ebay + $60 shipping = $559 + tax = $734 NZD. The same set of irons will be retailing for about $1200-$1300 NZD in NZ.
  • 07-27-2011
    Horseballs
    [QUOTE=Kiwi Player;248701]No way. We get totally ripped off by retailers down here. It's only about $30 to ship a single club like a driver and only about $60 to ship something much heavier like a full set of irons.

    If I can pick up a set of new irons for say $499 off ebay + $60 shipping = $559 + tax = $734 NZD. The same set of irons will be retailing for about $1200-$1300 NZD in NZ.[/QUOTE]

    I think you are very unpatriotic for not supporting your local NZ businesses. The US is largely in the trouble we are in because we are so upside down on import/export. With a tiny economy like New Zealand, every consumer has a duty to purchase locally when possible. The only things you export are Lord of the Rings movies and Stevie Williams. Your country better get some unity or you will be the ones with the default debt. Learn from our wisdom and take the long-term view.
  • 07-27-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=Horseballs;248702]I think you are very unpatriotic for not supporting your local NZ businesses. The US is largely in the trouble we are in because we are so upside down on import/export. With a tiny economy like New Zealand, every consumer has a duty to purchase locally when possible. The only things you export are Lord of the Rings movies and Stevie Williams. Your country better get some unity or you will be the ones with the default debt. Learn from our wisdom and take the long-term view.[/QUOTE]

    Free trade is always better. It's foolish to buy things from your own country if they are more expensive or less in quality. The only people in support of that kind of illogical behavior are lobbyists for GM, Ford and Chrysler. Free trade enables each country to soar with it's strengths and use it's natural resources. We can't grow coffee in the United States and it would be stupid to restrict importing coffee so that we could try and produce it here. That is all.
  • 07-27-2011
    daveperkins
    "Default" means to not pay interest on debt instruments you've sold, like bonds to China. The cost of our monthly debt service is about $30 billion. We take in about $200 billion a month in taxes. We can pay all Social Security recipients, all Medicare and Medicaid expenses, all salaries of serving soldiers and all VA benefits and retired military, and still have a little left over.

    If neither side budges, the net result will be a lot of closed down government offices and workers on furlough, but no default and also no missing benefit checks.

    But the real problem is that we are spending 40% more than we take in. In Bush's last year we spent 13% more than we took in and the Democrats went WILD over that terrible awful very bad debt increase. Obama has tripled it and nobody bats an eye.

    If our credit is downgraded, it will not be because we failed to give permission for government to continue to spend 40% more than it takes in. that kind of "failure" actually makes our credit BETTER, not worse, because we're not running up NEW debt.

    No, if we get downgraded, it's because our debt, which has doubled in five years, is simply so high that we have no chance of paying it off. A downgrade means interest rates increase across the board, and the spiral begins, and Greece, here we come. And a downgrade is almost inevitable. None of the bills floated up have done anything to DECREASE our debt. They all increase it.

    Downgrade is coming.

    If you sell any golf sheite, make sure you only take gold as payment. :-)
  • 07-27-2011
    Pky6471
    1 Attachment(s)
    [QUOTE=Kiwi Player;248699]This is golf related. The inherent weakness in the USD over the past two years has meant that the NZD is hitting historical highs against the greenback. A few years back the natural exchange rate for the NZD was approximately 55-60c in the dollar but over the past three years it has been hovering around the low-mid seventies and this past week has climbed through the previous high of 82.5 to hit 87.5c.

    This makes ho'ing golf equipment off E-Bay and sites like Rock Bottom Golf so much more viable. So my question is do I need to get my golf purchases in this week whilst we are hovering around the 87.5cent mark? Or should I wait until next week to see if the US defaults and the NZD climbs through 90cents?[/QUOTE]

    I am not an economist, but clearly spending in USA is out of control, EVERYONE wants to spend even without having money, i.e. buy BMW fresh out of college, borrow money to go on vacation, buy a house he/she can't afford... and they all help leading to current debt problem in USA, Weak USD will hurt other countries to export to USA , I know that Aussie is crying because its currency is strong against USD... Good for you guys to buy products from USA cheaper but we won't buy products from you guys/girls/AC-DC because they have become expensive. USA and China are related via bonds (I believe) so they need each other to survive. The workforce in Shanghai is very young, the average age of 2000 workers at our tech center in Shanghai is 30, yesterday I went down to cafeteria for lunch and I thought that I was at some university with ALL young faces... They work (not sure how hard) for a better life since China has moved from communist regime to capitalism, but they make products for use outside of China, so USA stops spending China would be in trouble
    By the way, attached is a night view of Shanghai I just took last night
  • 07-27-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=daveperkins;248704]"Default" means to not pay interest on debt instruments you've sold, like bonds to China. The cost of our monthly debt service is about $30 billion. We take in about $200 billion a month in taxes. We can pay all Social Security recipients, all Medicare and Medicaid expenses, all salaries of serving soldiers and all VA benefits and retired military, and still have a little left over.

    If neither side budges, the net result will be a lot of closed down government offices and workers on furlough, but no default and also no missing benefit checks.

    But the real problem is that we are spending 40% more than we take in. In Bush's last year we spent 13% more than we took in and the Democrats went WILD over that terrible awful very bad debt increase. Obama has tripled it and nobody bats an eye.

    If our credit is downgraded, it will not be because we failed to give permission for government to continue to spend 40% more than it takes in. that kind of "failure" actually makes our credit BETTER, not worse, because we're not running up NEW debt.

    No, if we get downgraded, it's because our debt, which has doubled in five years, is simply so high that we have no chance of paying it off. A downgrade means interest rates increase across the board, and the spiral begins, and Greece, here we come. And a downgrade is almost inevitable. None of the bills floated up have done anything to DECREASE our debt. They all increase it.

    Downgrade is coming.

    If you sell any golf sheite, make sure you only take gold as payment. :-)[/QUOTE]


    Excuse me, you think Bush declaring war on Iraq has nothing to do with our dept? They spent trillions of dollars on that war...taxpayers money that most people in America didn't think we should be spending...but they did it anyway.

    I don't agree with Obama's spending, but he had to do something to make an effort to get us out of the horrible recession that Bush had started.

    I am a Republican and that's the way I have always voted. However, it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Bush is responsible for the terrible mess that we are in now. I would say 1 out of 100 people I talked to back then were in support of us being over in Iraq. He is the most stubborn president in the history of the U.S. and probably one of the worst of all time. He's a complete idiot and came close to destroying our country with his military spending.

    If we are to decrease government spending, then it should be in the form of completely wiping out welfare, disability, workman's compensation and social security. People need to learn to save for their future. If you don't save...you live on the street. If you don't work...you starve.

    Obama fell into a horrible mess. Sure, he sucks just like any other democrat with his liberal thinking, huge spending on programs and false promises but at least he didn't get us into a war with Iraq in retaliation for something the Taliban did and then lied to us about weapons of mass destruction.

    Bush was probably the 2nd or 3rd worst president of all time. Carter was 1st.
  • 07-27-2011
    Mward2002
    I see the debt ceiling issue much like a term paper due, and Congress is the college student. Oh s.hit! This paper's due August 2nd (or 10th, depending on is that Barclay's report was true) and it's the first! Better stay up all night and finish it. Come due date, there'll be a deal. We spend a lot of money. If we go down, bad news for every country that likes us buying their stuff.

    Related topics: NFL draft. Season's coming up soon? Yeah we'll agree to something, just get it done and half compromise.
  • 07-27-2011
    Horseballs
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248703]Free trade is always better. It's foolish to buy things from your own country if they are more expensive or less in quality. The only people in support of that kind of illogical behavior are lobbyists for GM, Ford and Chrysler. Free trade enables each country to soar with it's strengths and use it's natural resources. We can't grow coffee in the United States and it would be stupid to restrict importing coffee so that we could try and produce it here. That is all.[/QUOTE]

    I'm clearly flaming Kiwi and New Zealand, not making a political/economic point.
  • 07-27-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=daveperkins;248704]"Default" means to not pay interest on debt instruments you've sold, like bonds to China. The cost of our monthly debt service is about $30 billion. We take in about $200 billion a month in taxes. We can pay all Social Security recipients, all Medicare and Medicaid expenses, all salaries of serving soldiers and all VA benefits and retired military, and still have a little left over.

    If neither side budges, the net result will be a lot of closed down government offices and workers on furlough, but no default and also no missing benefit checks.

    But the real problem is that we are spending 40% more than we take in. In Bush's last year we spent 13% more than we took in and the Democrats went WILD over that terrible awful very bad debt increase. Obama has tripled it and nobody bats an eye.

    If our credit is downgraded, it will not be because we failed to give permission for government to continue to spend 40% more than it takes in. that kind of "failure" actually makes our credit BETTER, not worse, because we're not running up NEW debt.

    No, if we get downgraded, it's because our debt, which has doubled in five years, is simply so high that we have no chance of paying it off. A downgrade means interest rates increase across the board, and the spiral begins, and Greece, here we come. And a downgrade is almost inevitable. None of the bills floated up have done anything to DECREASE our debt. They all increase it.

    [B][I]Downgrade is coming[/I][/B].

    If you sell any golf sheite, make sure you only take gold as payment. :-)[/QUOTE]
    Yes, it is inevitable. So is a jump in interest rates that will sweep the US and the rest of the western world. This will lead to lots of pain with the predominate residential real estate ownership type being the lienholders. Demand for rental properties will skyrocket. Debt instruments will finally start paying decent returns. The dollar will strengthen and some costs of living will fall like petroleum prices. Massive civil unrest is likely across the board with military dictatorships replacing civilian ruled democracies in some countries. Those Saudi sand n*ggers knew what they were doing on 9/11/2001.
  • 07-27-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=mongrel;248710]Yes, it is inevitable. So is a jump in interest rates that will sweep the US and the rest of the western world. This will lead to lots of pain with the predominate residential real estate ownership type being the lienholders. Demand for rental properties will skyrocket. Debt instruments will finally start paying decent returns. The dollar will strengthen and some costs of living will fall like petroleum prices. Massive civil unrest is likely across the board with military dictatorships replacing civilian ruled democracies in some countries. Those Saudi sand n*ggers knew what they were doing on 9/11/2001.[/QUOTE]

    The only honest prediction anyone can make about the economy is that they have no idea what will happen over the next year. When 9/11 hit everyone thought we'd see years of recession. Instead, we bounced back very quickly and the Dow reached an all time high.
  • 07-27-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248712]The only honest prediction anyone can make about the economy is that they have no idea what will happen over the next year. When 9/11 hit everyone thought we'd see years of recession. Instead, we bounced back very quickly and the Dow reached an all time high.[/QUOTE]

    The measures taken by the US govt immediately after 9/11/2001 prevented immediate recession but lead, through an above-the-line sine wave to the current economic condition. The attacks were like a huge boulder dropped into a still pond and the waves it caused will continue to disturb the waters into the foreseeable future.
  • 07-27-2011
    daveperkins
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248712]The only honest prediction anyone can make about the economy is that they have no idea what will happen over the next year. When 9/11 hit everyone thought we'd see years of recession. Instead, we bounced back very quickly and the Dow reached an all time high.[/QUOTE]

    Yep.. and then, starting in 2007, we have doubled the size of the national debt in five years. Democrats took control of congress in 2007. Coincidence? I THINK NOT :-)

    we spend 40% more than we take in. that's $4 billion dollars a day we go further into debt. NOBODY can sustain spending 40% more than they take in. the entire civilized world has been spending just like that, longer than WE have. Greece is in default because it's debt is larger than its GDP and it can never pay it back. Several other Euro countries are in that queue. So are we. Matter of time, unless we stop spending more than we take in. Cutting back to spending 20% more than we take in isn't going to get it done. it's got to be down to about 2-3% more than we take in, so that economic growth can keep us even. But over 60% of our spending is direct transfer payments to other people, welfare, medicare, social sec. etc. How can we cut that? So we print money, which devalues the currency, which hurts poor people and fixed income people the most. we're halfway through falling down the cliff and Washington talks like we're not AT the cliff yet and we should just show down instead of stop.

    Too late.
  • 07-27-2011
    Kiwi Player
    [QUOTE=Horseballs;248702][B]I think you are very unpatriotic for not supporting your local NZ businesses. [/B]The US is largely in the trouble we are in because we are so upside down on import/export. With a tiny economy like New Zealand, every consumer has a duty to purchase locally when possible. The only things you export are Lord of the Rings movies and Stevie Williams. Your country better get some unity or you will be the ones with the default debt. Learn from our wisdom and take the long-term view.[/QUOTE]

    LOL

    You remind me of the Pro at my golf club who implored "You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes without trying them on would you?" as I scoffed at the $500-$600 he is asking for the latest drivers.

    He reckons we all need to do a driver 'fitting' but he is getting annoyed because guys are doing the fitting with him then ordering the club online for $200-$300. Now he is charging for the fitting. I know better anyway. We on GR all know 3 swings with a driver is all you need to know if it is right for you. Screw the pseudo science BS of a fitting.

    What has the free market done for NZ anyway? I'll tell you what it's done. Despite being one of the worlds primary producers of beef, lamb, dairy and an abundant source of fresh fish we pay through the nose for it locally because we sell our produce on the world market to the highest bidders and it hits our supermarket shelves at the same high prices. I have seen examples where NZ lamb is cheaper in a UK supermarket than it is in a NZ supermarket. How fukked up is that?

    So the local NZ Retailers who have been creaming it up till now and laughing all the way to the bank get zero patriotism/sympathy from me! :D
  • 07-27-2011
    Kiwi Player
    [QUOTE=Horseballs;248702]I think you are very unpatriotic for not supporting your local NZ businesses. The US is largely in the trouble we are in because we are so upside down on import/export. With a tiny economy like New Zealand, every consumer has a duty to purchase locally when possible. [B] The only things you export are Lord of the Rings movies and Stevie Williams[/B]. Your country better get some unity or you will be the ones with the default debt. Learn from our wisdom and take the long-term view.[/QUOTE]

    P.S. I apologize to all and sundry for LOTR. Peter Jackson is a disgrace to NZ. I bet, like me, you are all looking forward to the release of 'The Hobbit'. :rolleyes:
  • 07-28-2011
    24putts
    Fatuous Davis
    [QUOTE=it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Bush is responsible for the terrible mess that we are in now. I would say 1 out of 100 people I talked to back then were in support of us being over in Iraq. [/QUOTE]

    I always suspected those Ping molybdenum fumes had addled his brain, but now I'm certain of it. The only thing Bush did wrong with Iraq was fail to secure the oil for us. The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is that no one can drive anywhere any more without depleting their savings. If gas was 1.20/gal. again, as it was in '93 (when the economy started its 7-year soar), the auto and hospitality industries would be booming, the IRS coffers would be overflowing, and everybody would be getting laid. If you rescue 50 million people from a murderous tyrant, you are morally entitled to extract a significant payment for the assistance. Just like, if you saved Greta Schacchi from an abusive boyfriend, you'd be entitled to bone her. Where's the problem? This is what makes Bush a dork, not the decision to go in to Iraq in the first place.
  • 07-28-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=24putts;248728]I always suspected those Ping molybdenum fumes had addled his brain, but now I'm certain of it. The only thing Bush did wrong with Iraq was fail to secure the oil for us. The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is that no one can drive anywhere any more without depleting their savings. If gas was 1.20/gal. again, as it was in '93 (when the economy started its 7-year soar), the auto and hospitality industries would be booming, the IRS coffers would be overflowing, and everybody would be getting laid. If you rescue 50 million people from a murderous tyrant, you are morally entitled to extract a significant payment for the assistance. Just like, if you saved Greta Schacchi from an abusive boyfriend, you'd be entitled to bone her. Where's the problem? This is what makes Bush a dork, not the decision to go in to Iraq in the first place.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, gee, that $100 extra people have to spend on gas every month is the sole problem with the economy. I would call you a dummy but that would be too kind.
  • 07-28-2011
    Horseballs
    [QUOTE=Kiwi Player;248717]LOL

    You remind me of the Pro at my golf club who implored "You wouldn't buy a pair of shoes without trying them on would you?" as I scoffed at the $500-$600 he is asking for the latest drivers.

    He reckons we all need to do a driver 'fitting' but he is getting annoyed because guys are doing the fitting with him then ordering the club online for $200-$300. Now he is charging for the fitting. I know better anyway. We on GR all know 3 swings with a driver is all you need to know if it is right for you. Screw the pseudo science BS of a fitting.

    What has the free market done for NZ anyway? I'll tell you what it's done. Despite being one of the worlds primary producers of beef, lamb, dairy and an abundant source of fresh fish we pay through the nose for it locally because we sell our produce on the world market to the highest bidders and it hits our supermarket shelves at the same high prices. I have seen examples where NZ lamb is cheaper in a UK supermarket than it is in a NZ supermarket. How fukked up is that?

    So the local NZ Retailers who have been creaming it up till now and laughing all the way to the bank get zero patriotism/sympathy from me! :D[/QUOTE]

    Your local pro should absolutely be charging you for a fitting if you use his services then buy somewhere else.
    When we went to Sonoma County (large wine producing region in California), we bought about 30 bottles of wine right at the vinyards. We found out that many of the exact wines we purchased were at least $10 cheaper per bottle from our local wine store.
  • 07-28-2011
    The Purist
    Paying down the national debt is both idiotic and impossible.

    Every dollar created in the US is borrowed into existence. Treasury dollars are created by selling interest bearing gov't bonds, but the interest must be paid. Every time the interest is paid the total money supply in circulation shrinks. The only way to keep the interest payments coming in, is to keep borrowing more and more money. Debt must keep growing at an exponential pace to keep up with the growing interest payments. If debt growth doesn't keep up, then the money supply shrinks and the economy starts to go down the toilet.

    The nation isn't like a person. The deeper the nation goes into the debt the better off the people will be...its really the only option with our current monetary policy. If you ever hear about a government surplus or about debt being paid down, then you need to be afraid, because the money supply is shrinking.
  • 07-28-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=The Purist;248733]Paying down the national debt is both idiotic and impossible.

    Every dollar created in the US is borrowed into existence. Treasury dollars are created by selling interest bearing gov't bonds, but the interest must be paid. Every time the interest is paid the total money supply in circulation shrinks. The only way to keep the interest payments coming in, is to keep borrowing more and more money. Debt must keep growing at an exponential pace to keep up with the growing interest payments. If debt growth doesn't keep up, then the money supply shrinks and the economy starts to go down the toilet.

    The nation isn't like a person. The deeper the nation goes into the debt the better off the people will be...its really the only option with our current monetary policy. If you ever hear about a government surplus or about debt being paid down, then you need to be afraid, because the money supply is shrinking.[/QUOTE]


    Increasing the money supply creates inflation. I don't think we're talking about the treasury printing money or the fact that the dollar isn't based on a gold standard. We're talking about paying off existing dept by borrowing from other countries, such as China and then spending $700 Billion (like Obama did) to help boost the economy.
  • 07-28-2011
    Lord Helmet
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248734]Increasing the money supply creates inflation. I don't think we're talking about the treasury printing money or the fact that the dollar isn't based on a gold standard. We're talking about paying off existing dept by borrowing from other countries, such as China and then spending $700 Billion (like Obama did) to help boost the economy.[/QUOTE]

    Remind me why this thread is in the golf forum?
  • 07-28-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=Lord Helmet;248735]Remind me why this thread is in the golf forum?[/QUOTE]


    It means the price of BeCu could go up and raise the price of Ping Eye 2 Copper irons.
  • 07-28-2011
    Lord Helmet
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248736]It means the price of BeCu could go up and raise the price of Ping Eye 2 Copper irons.[/QUOTE]

    Yup, thats right. My bad.

    By the way, the Octane Tour is nice. Real nice.
  • 07-28-2011
    Kiwi Player
    [QUOTE=Lord Helmet;248735]Remind me why this thread is in the golf forum?[/QUOTE]

    Because when you guys default next week and the USD plummets even further into the mire us long suffering OZ & Kiwi club ho's will be buying all the (relatively) cheap golf equipment available on E-Bay and Rock Bottom Golf. :D
  • 07-28-2011
    Kiwi Player
    [QUOTE=Horseballs;248732][B]Your local pro should absolutely be charging you for a fitting if you use his services then buy somewhere else. [/B]
    When we went to Sonoma County (large wine producing region in California), we bought about 30 bottles of wine right at the vinyards. We found out that many of the exact wines we purchased were at least $10 cheaper per bottle from our local wine store.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah that's fair enough. He'll deduct the cost of the fitting off the cost of the new driver if you buy it off him. I've never had a fitting myself. This is just what I heard other guys were doing.

    As for the wine prices, yeah that is exactly what I have found too here in NZ (and Aussie for that matter). Cellar door prices are much higher than the local supermarket prices. But then the big supermarket chains have immense buying power. They buy in bulk and really screw the price down for the local wine makers. When I visit a vineyard and taste the wine I'm happy to pay a small premium to buy a good bottle of wine.
  • 07-28-2011
    SoonerBS
    [QUOTE=famousdavis;248706]Excuse me, you think Bush declaring war on Iraq has nothing to do with our dept? They spent trillions of dollars on that war...taxpayers money that most people in America didn't think we should be spending...but they did it anyway.

    I don't agree with Obama's spending, but he had to do something to make an effort to get us out of the horrible recession that Bush had started.

    I am a Republican and that's the way I have always voted. However, it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Bush is responsible for the terrible mess that we are in now. I would say 1 out of 100 people I talked to back then were in support of us being over in Iraq. He is the most stubborn president in the history of the U.S. and probably one of the worst of all time. He's a complete idiot and came close to destroying our country with his military spending.

    If we are to decrease government spending, then it should be in the form of completely wiping out welfare, disability, workman's compensation and social security. People need to learn to save for their future. If you don't save...you live on the street. If you don't work...you starve.

    Obama fell into a horrible mess. Sure, he sucks just like any other democrat with his liberal thinking, huge spending on programs and false promises but at least he didn't get us into a war with Iraq in retaliation for something the Taliban did and then lied to us about weapons of mass destruction.

    Bush was probably the 2nd or 3rd worst president of all time. Carter was 1st.[/QUOTE]

    You are right on on every point here, Dave. Bush was a dumbshite! He is also the reason I am an Independent today. Of course, the fact that McCain tried to follow him did not bolster my confidence in the Republican party. I noticed where McCain got mad in the senate the other day because the Tea Party freshman would not allow an increase in the debt ceiling. That is one of the reasons I've never liked McCain, you can't tell whether he is Republican or Democrat. More often he looks like a Democrat.

    Bush didn't just get us in one war, he got us in two. Politically correct fought wars cost too much money. It's too bad that these dumbshite presidents didn't learn how to handle foreign problems from Reagan -- just go drop a bomb or two on the leader's home.
  • 07-29-2011
    daveperkins
    [QUOTE=Kiwi Player;248743]Because when you guys default next week and the USD plummets even further into the mire us long suffering OZ & Kiwi club ho's will be buying all the (relatively) cheap golf equipment available on E-Bay and Rock Bottom Golf. :D[/QUOTE]

    "default" means something. It means failing to meet the terms of instruments of debt which you have sold, i.e. failing to pay the interest on those instruments. The Chinese own most of our debt and are waiting for their interest checks, usually about $30 billion a month. Our tax revenue is about $200 billion a month. Regardless of the debt ceiling.

    Obama will not default. Those checks WILL go out. The debt ceiling will have no effect on the payment of that interest. Obama is not ready to complete the sale of the USA to China. :-) THERE WILL BE NO DEFAULT. There is enough money coming in every month to pay all social security, welfare, medicare and medicaid, active soldier salaries, retired military and Veterans Administration benefits and some left over. What CANNOT be maintained is the cost of government, i.e. pay for bureaucrats and building maintenance and country club memberships and so forth.

    The people who receive benefits from government are DEMOCRAT voters. They will NOT be stiffed by a democrat administration. PERIOD.

    The real problem is this-- we take in about $200 billion a month and we SPEND ABOUT $300 BILLION A MONTH.

    over 40% more than we take in.

    Under Bush we spent about 13% more than we took in. Which was too much. Obama has TRIPLED it. How long, in a world filled with expectations from America regarding payments, liquidity, value of currency, strength of economy, etc., can we spend 40% more than we take in?

    Obama INSANITY, or deliberate hamstringing of our economy for other reasons. There is no way he does not KNOW this is harmful. But he continues, doubles down, defends it. Not insane. Purposeful.

    And we are very near the cliff, if not already over it. Raising the debt ceiling means continuing toward the cliff edge at a slightly lower speed. Insane. The proper response is to begin spending NO MORE THAN WE TAKE IN. Immediately.

    But it won't happen. Too many people are in the line of money flow, siphoning off a bit as it goes by. If it slows down or stops too many important people will be inconvenienced. So insanity continues until collapse.

    At which point some very nice golf clubs will be for sale cheap. Not irons and woods, ENTIRE COUNTRY CLUBS. :-)

    If you have children, you should be on your way to Washington with FECKIN' PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES. Those people are assuring children and grandchildren will have vastly reduced lifestyles and be slaves to massive tax rates. Government today is EATING THE FUTURE.
  • 07-29-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=SoonerBS;248746]You are right on on every point here, Dave. Bush was a dumbshite! He is also the reason I am an Independent today. Of course, the fact that McCain tried to follow him did not bolster my confidence in the Republican party. I noticed where McCain got mad in the senate the other day because the Tea Party freshman would not allow an increase in the debt ceiling. That is one of the reasons I've never liked McCain, you can't tell whether he is Republican or Democrat. More often he looks like a Democrat.

    [B][I]Bush didn't just get us in one war, he got us in two. Politically correct fought wars cost too much money. It's too bad that these dumbshite presidents didn't learn how to handle foreign problems from Reagan -- just go drop a bomb or two on the leader's home[/I][/B].[/QUOTE]

    All wars are political. Unfortunately, presidents of the US have never had carte blanche to do what needed to be done to end those wars quickly with less chance that the actions would result in the need for more wars. Bushes, father and son, both should have ended things permanently but there were and are others that would go ballistic like the US Congress and the vast moronic electorate that believes what it sees on TV and, for the ones who are able to read past the 6th grade level, what appears in newspapers and the weekly news magazines. Effective war fighting sometimes means that you wait to engage. Had FDR waited until Hitler had conquered the Soviet Union and then crushed the Reich, the world would be a better place today. Etc. Mongrel out.
  • 07-29-2011
    huskyhater
    [QUOTE=daveperkins;248750]"default" means something. It means failing to meet the terms of instruments of debt which you have sold, i.e. failing to pay the interest on those instruments. The Chinese own most of our debt and are waiting for their interest checks, usually about $30 billion a month. Our tax revenue is about $200 billion a month. Regardless of the debt ceiling.

    Obama will not default. Those checks WILL go out. The debt ceiling will have no effect on the payment of that interest. Obama is not ready to complete the sale of the USA to China. :-) THERE WILL BE NO DEFAULT. There is enough money coming in every month to pay all social security, welfare, medicare and medicaid, active soldier salaries, retired military and Veterans Administration benefits and some left over. What CANNOT be maintained is the cost of government, i.e. pay for bureaucrats and building maintenance and country club memberships and so forth.

    The people who receive benefits from government are DEMOCRAT voters. They will NOT be stiffed by a democrat administration. PERIOD.

    The real problem is this-- we take in about $200 billion a month and we SPEND ABOUT $300 BILLION A MONTH.

    over 40% more than we take in.

    Under Bush we spent about 13% more than we took in. Which was too much. Obama has TRIPLED it. How long, in a world filled with expectations from America regarding payments, liquidity, value of currency, strength of economy, etc., can we spend 40% more than we take in?

    Obama INSANITY, or deliberate hamstringing of our economy for other reasons. There is no way he does not KNOW this is harmful. But he continues, doubles down, defends it. Not insane. Purposeful.

    And we are very near the cliff, if not already over it. Raising the debt ceiling means continuing toward the cliff edge at a slightly lower speed. Insane. The proper response is to begin spending NO MORE THAN WE TAKE IN. Immediately.

    But it won't happen. Too many people are in the line of money flow, siphoning off a bit as it goes by. If it slows down or stops too many important people will be inconvenienced. So insanity continues until collapse.

    At which point some very nice golf clubs will be for sale cheap. Not irons and woods, ENTIRE COUNTRY CLUBS. :-)

    If you have children, you should be on your way to Washington with FECKIN' PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES. Those people are assuring children and grandchildren will have vastly reduced lifestyles and be slaves to massive tax rates. Government today is EATING THE FUTURE.[/QUOTE]
    ALL good points.....but you forget to add why bush's war cost so much and why the repubs hid the REAL cost of bush's war from the public and the Dems until they took over. Seems the repubs dusted things over and ran the bill as high as they could so they could sit back now and point fingers at Obama like its his fault. It took bush 8 years to get us into this mess, its gonna take ALOT longer to get out of it. The repubs (or their 2nd party, the tea partiers) need to yield a little bit on this ceiling deal and not expect the Dems to back up all the way. BEFORE you come back with some typical repub lies and excuses (BIG difference between excuses and reasons) answer me this-why have the smarter republicans decided to vote against Boehner?
  • 07-29-2011
    SoonerBS
    [QUOTE=huskyhater;248769]ALL good points.....but you forget to add why bush's war cost so much and why the repubs hid the REAL cost of bush's war from the public and the Dems until they took over. [B]Seems the repubs dusted things over and ran the bill as high as they could so they could sit back now and point fingers at Obama like its his fault.[/B] It took bush 8 years to get us into this mess, its gonna take ALOT longer to get out of it. [B]The repubs (or their 2nd party, the tea partiers) need to yield a little bit on this ceiling deal and not expect the Dems to back up all the way. BEFORE you come back with some typical repub lies and excuses (BIG difference between excuses and reasons) answer me this-why have the smarter republicans decided to vote against Boehner?[/B][/QUOTE]

    So, does this mean that if McCain would have won, then they would have pointed their finger at McCain and said it was his fault?

    The last election showed that the nation is sick of the "usual" white house politics. This is why many "tea party" members were elected. If they simply follow Boner's lead, then it is just a lot of the same old party politics. This debt situation and bad economy is not going to be solved by following the same old party politics -- that is what got us in to this mess. It is going to take saying no to more spending and everyone is probably going to have to chip in to help pay for all the mistakes. My wish is that whenever we do get the debt paid off, that we do not allow the political hogs to start spending out the wazzou again and get us back into the mess.

    Like it or not, Tea Party ideology is some of the most responsible thinking in congress right now. This is what the Americans wanted, and so this is how our representatives in congress need to vote.
  • 07-29-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=SoonerBS;248770]So, does this mean that if McCain would have won, then they would have pointed their finger at McCain and said it was his fault?

    The last election showed that the nation is sick of the "usual" white house politics. This is why many "tea party" members were elected. If they simply follow Boner's lead, then it is just a lot of the same old party politics. This debt situation and bad economy is not going to be solved by following the same old party politics -- that is what got us in to this mess. It is going to take saying no to more spending and everyone is probably going to have to chip in to help pay for all the mistakes. My wish is that whenever we do get the debt paid off, that we do not allow the political hogs to start spending out the wazzou again and get us back into the mess.

    Like it or not, Tea Party ideology is some of the most responsible thinking in congress right now. [B][I]This is what the Americans wanted, and so this is how our representatives in congress need to vote.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

    The vast American electorate only wants three things as stated by Jimmy Carter's Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butts (dcsd) on a jet and overheard by a reporter: "Loose shoes, tight p*ssy, and a warm place to sh+t." The only way to "pay off" the debt is to eliminate it and start over using gold, the old standby for thousands of years, as the monetary standard. Of course this would require catastrophic events like nuclear airbursts over the major cities of the US with the attendent electromagnetic pulses wiping out anything electronic that wasn't "hardened" prior thereto. That would include lots of stuff that would no longer work from your digital battery watch, lawnmower with electronic ignition, all post 1965 cars and trucks, TV, radio, the Internet, airplanes, radar, sonar, and most of the rest of the stuff that keeps us keepin' on. Hundreds of millions, maybe billions, would die including those who held most of the US government debt. It would work nicely, sort of like a nuclear Chapter 7. I guarantee you that the survivors would be a whole lot more careful with their money and resources and that the new governments would in no way resemble the old.
  • 07-29-2011
    poe4soul
    [QUOTE=SoonerBS;248770]So, does this mean that if McCain would have won, then they would have pointed their finger at McCain and said it was his fault?

    The last election showed that the nation is sick of the "usual" white house politics. This is why many "tea party" members were elected. If they simply follow Boner's lead, then it is just a lot of the same old party politics. This debt situation and bad economy is not going to be solved by following the same old party politics -- that is what got us in to this mess. It is going to take saying no to more spending and everyone is probably going to have to chip in to help pay for all the mistakes. My wish is that whenever we do get the debt paid off, that we do not allow the political hogs to start spending out the wazzou again and get us back into the mess.

    Like it or not, Tea Party ideology is some of the most responsible thinking in congress right now. [B]This is what the Americans wanted, and so this is how our representatives in congress need to vote[/B].[/QUOTE]

    This is what some American's wanted. Some of the states did not back the Tea Party, for example Alaska. One thing is for sure, the lock step of the two party system is being weakened. Which is good no matter how you look at it. Maybe bad bill's like Medicare Part B wouldn't be made into law.
  • 07-29-2011
    SoonerBS
    [QUOTE=poe4soul;248777]This is what some American's wanted. Some of the states did not back the Tea Party, for example Alaska. One thing is for sure, the lock step of the two party system is being weakened. Which is good no matter how you look at it. Maybe bad bill's like Medicare Part B wouldn't be made into law.[/QUOTE]

    I think Alaska would have backed the Tea Party if Sarah Palin hadn't been supporting it. They recognize, like the rest of the country does, that she is a ding bat of major proportions.
  • 07-29-2011
    poe4soul
    [QUOTE=SoonerBS;248779]I think Alaska would have backed the Tea Party if Sarah Palin hadn't been supporting it. They recognize, like the rest of the country does, that she is a ding bat of major proportions.[/QUOTE]

    Didn't he distance himself from her? Wasn't she all PO'd because some questions he field about her not being the best candidate for the presidency? I also thought she was popular in Alaska.

    Honestly, I think the conservative states will support a Tea Party candidate and they have a fair chance of being elected. In a moderate or left leaning state/district the moderates for the most part won't back a Tea Party candidate and they might win the Rep. nomination but don't have a real chance of being elected. Obviously it also depends on the candidate and their character. Time will tell.
  • 07-29-2011
    famousdavis
    [QUOTE=poe4soul;248780]Didn't he distance himself from her? Wasn't she all PO'd because some questions he field about her not being the best candidate for the presidency? I also thought she was popular in Alaska.

    I just want a President who won't give money to people who do nothing.
  • 07-29-2011
    huskyhater
    [QUOTE=SoonerBS;248770]So, does this mean that if McCain would have won, then they would have pointed their finger at McCain and said it was his fault?

    The last election showed that the nation is sick of the "usual" white house politics. This is why many "tea party" members were elected. If they simply follow Boner's lead, then it is just a lot of the same old party politics. This debt situation and bad economy is not going to be solved by following the same old party politics -- that is what got us in to this mess. It is going to take saying no to more spending and everyone is probably going to have to chip in to help pay for all the mistakes. My wish is that whenever we do get the debt paid off, that we do not allow the political hogs to start spending out the wazzou again and get us back into the mess.

    Like it or not, Tea Party ideology is some of the most responsible thinking in congress right now. This is what the Americans wanted, and so this is how our representatives in congress need to vote.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed Sooner, the tea partiers do have some good points but look for ex-repubs to jump that bandwagon (they know they're screwed) and then go back to their old ways IF elected. Almost all of the tea partiers I know are people who 'used to be' republicans. The repubs have backed themselves into a corner with their lies and untruths (hidden war costs, New Orleans dike monies, etc) and they know it. For curiousity, how many other partys send out emails dissing other party's like the repubs do? YEP....just as I though-NONE! The repubs are dirt and they know that the American public has figured that out. I sent my State Rep an email telling her when I get ready to retire I don't want to be handed a piece of paper saying 'this is how much money you have but it isn't really there'-I told her I don't need to be further provoked. 'Some people' might consider that a death sentence to 'the takers' if their money isn't there. I've got mine, I've worked for it, don't f*ck with it because it isn't yours, and everybody will be fine. The ones who hid the real cost of the war need to be 'dealt with'.
    IF the tea party keeps repubs (and their crooked, selfish ways) out and let them be the slime that they are on their own I'm all for them-but that will remain to be seen.
  • 07-29-2011
    poe4soul
    [QUOTE=huskyhater;248800]Agreed Sooner, the tea partiers do have some good points but look for ex-repubs to jump that bandwagon (they know they're screwed) and then go back to their old ways IF elected. Almost all of the tea partiers I know are people who 'used to be' republicans. The repubs have backed themselves into a corner with their lies and untruths (hidden war costs, New Orleans dike monies, etc) and they know it. For curiousity, how many other partys send out emails dissing other party's like the repubs do? YEP....just as I though-NONE! The repubs are dirt and they know that the American public has figured that out. I sent my State Rep an email telling her when I get ready to retire I don't want to be handed a piece of paper saying 'this is how much money you have but it isn't really there'-I told her I don't need to be further provoked. 'Some people' might consider that a death sentence to 'the takers' if their money isn't there. I've got mine, I've worked for it, don't f*ck with it because it isn't yours, and everybody will be fine. The ones who hid the real cost of the war need to be 'dealt with'.
    IF the tea party keeps repubs (and their crooked, selfish ways) out and let them be the slime that they are on their own I'm all for them-but that will remain to be seen.[/QUOTE]

    Isn't social security another entitlement in the eyes of a tea party?
  • 07-29-2011
    SoonerBS
    [QUOTE=poe4soul;248811]Isn't social security another entitlement in the eyes of a tea party?[/QUOTE]

    Dave Perkins could tell you anything you want to know on the tea party group, he is an authority.
  • 07-30-2011
    Kiwi Player
    Guys Guys Guys ... please ... back on topic.

    Should I buy a Yes putter from Rock Bottom Golf now or wait until after you guys default on Tuesday?
  • 07-30-2011
    Not a hacker
    I heard they are cancelling the US dollar and are releasing a new currency, the North American peso (Canada wants in too).
  • 07-30-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=Not a hacker;248832]I heard they are cancelling the US dollar and are releasing a new currency, the North American peso (Canada wants in too).[/QUOTE]

    That's not gonna happen. I saw a funny story from central California yesterdat. Seems that tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants are returning to Mexico because their economy is picking up and there are jobs waiting that pay better than what they have in the US. Funny how these things alway go in cycles. Gotta love that invisible Hand.
  • 07-30-2011
    Not a hacker
    [QUOTE=mongrel;248850]That's not gonna happen. I saw a funny story from central California yesterdat. Seems that tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants are returning to Mexico because their economy is picking up and there are jobs waiting that pay better than what they have in the US. Funny how these things alway go in cycles. Gotta love that invisible Hand.[/QUOTE]
    That's pretty funny. It will hurt the Californian economy pretty bad though. I thought they were pretty dependent on the cheap labour they get from Mexicans. Businesses just getting by will go to the wall if they have to start paying minimum wage. It really sounds like it's a big shitt sandwich over there and everybody will have to take a bite. Unfortunately that probably means the rest of the world too. If the US goes down the shitshoot China won't be far behind. They have been banking trillions of US dollars over the last 20 or 30 years and wil take a huge hit if the US dollar fails.
  • 07-30-2011
    CPS
    [QUOTE=mongrel;248850]That's not gonna happen. I saw a funny story from central California yesterdat. Seems that tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants are returning to Mexico because their economy is picking up and there are jobs waiting that pay better than what they have in the US. Funny how these things alway go in cycles. Gotta love that invisible Hand.[/QUOTE]

    Invisible Hand is great choice of words. I'm a believer that the big banks and the Federal Reserve orchestrate and manipulate panic and crisis (and even war) to their own gain. I'm sure there will be some deal in which all these sad sacks of politicians will come out and congratulate each other on what great patriots they are and how they saved the country (just like they did back during the Bailout when Boehner was on the house floor weeping like a school girl begging his fellow congressmen to give Wall Street even more free money than usual).

    I don't know about the rest of you... but I don't listen to these pricks crying wolf anymore. Way too much money to be made off of US debt and the Fed. I'm not worried... and if this international bank monopoly and the Federal Reserve do happen to collapse... who gives a sh*t? Not anyone I know... Invisible Hand indeed.
  • 07-30-2011
    mongrel
    [QUOTE=CPS;248860]Invisible Hand is great choice of words. I'm a believer that the big banks and the Federal Reserve orchestrate and manipulate panic and crisis (and even war) to their own gain. I'm sure there will be some deal in which all these sad sacks of politicians will come out and congratulate each other on what great patriots they are and how they saved the country (just like they did back during the Bailout when Boehner was on the house floor weeping like a school girl begging his fellow congressmen to give Wall Street even more free money than usual).

    I don't know about the rest of you... but I don't listen to these pricks crying wolf anymore. Way too much money to be made off of US debt and the Fed. I'm not worried... and if this international bank monopoly and the Federal Reserve do happen to collapse... who gives a sh*t? Not anyone I know... Invisible Hand indeed.[/QUOTE]

    Invisible Hand. Adam Smith. 18th century Scottish scientist and economist. Required study in 99.5% of all collegiate level economics curricula. Artificial economic controls that you mention are the diametrical opposite of Smith's principle.