Scott McCarron, the spirit of golf and hypocrisy

Hi

As most on here are aware Mr McCarron has stated that Phil Mickleson is "cheating" for using a pre 1990 Ping Eye 2 wedge (a legal club under USGA guidelines) and that he is not playing in the spirit of the rules.

This is of course Scott McCarron who has been using a long handled putter for a number of years and who has undoubtdly used same putter to measure 1 or 2 club lengths for a drop etc, as you would for a pro so interested in the "spirit of the rules of gol f".

The hypocrisy of someone arguing about cheating and the "spirit of golf rules" while wielding a club which many pro's (Norman for 1) feel breaks the spirit of the rules of golf beggars belief. None of them have somewhat arrogantly pronounced him a cheat though.

Since the long putter is legal i am fine with it, but please Mr McCarron be careful about throwing the words "cheat" and "spirit of the rules" about as the hypocrisy is becoming a little too much to bear in your case.

Regards

I too was startled and disappointed to see MCCarron so wound up about Moobs and cheating. Remember the putter thing back in the '70s, when Sam Snead was playing the senior tour and wanted to putt between his feet, croquet style? The USGA finally said no, and he compromised... he put the ball to one side, faced the hole with his feet and stroked the putter alongside his right foot like sweeping forward with a broom...

They let him, saying the rules didn't say which way his feet had to be pointing, only that the stroke had to pass both feet rather than originate between them.

Snead was old and nobody copied him. He had the yips and people felt sorry for him. But they did not allow the golf swing to deteriorate into the Croquet Mallet Push.

Rules are rules. If Moobs and JD are within them, they are within them. If McCarron thinks its an unfair advantage, he can dammn well bag a couple of Eye 2s himself.. or SHUT UP. IF the rules permit it, they permit it. No ambiguity there.

Moobs is saying the rules are nuts and should be changed. He may even be prodding the Tour to get that rule changed, now that the old Eyes aren't selling in any great number and Ping hasn't got much to lose by going along.

But he is NOT cheating, letter or spirit. Anyone can play that club until they change rules.

I agree that McCarron has zero credibility if he is using the long putter, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. Moobs may be complying within the letter of the law, but he is certainly breeching the spirit of the new laws, just as McCarron is destroying the spirit of the game by bagging a spastic long putter. Personally I think Moobs and McCaron are both DB pieces of shitt.

Phil plays within approved rules and regulations... Scott McCarron sucks it up and tries to beat Phil

Any player that doesn"t like what Phil is doing,can play the same club.

Why all the love for Phil? Have we forgotten so quickly that respected looper Stevie williams has publicly stated that he "hates the prick." Any caddy of a squeaky clean role model like Tiger Woods is a good enough reccomendation for me.

It was dissapointing to see Mickelson shoot himself out of the tournament by overswinging his driver! What a moron! One announcer said someone should break his driver and make him tee off with 3w.

He could have won the tournament. He could have won dozens of others. His record should be a lesson to every developing amateur--that a smooth controlled swing is FAR better than an out-of-control slash. We all fight that tendency of course, but the Hale Irwins and Corey Pavins prove that smart beats wild every time. Mickelson is 40, and still hasn't learned much. Lights are on, but there is no intelligence up there.

Larry

Obviously the brain damage Mickeleson suffered as a child is irreparable. But at least he's not one of those unfortunate nerd types that's always throwing rules in your face.

I suppose if I were beaten by classmates every day growing up, I'd probably whine about rules applying when they don't apply, too.

Jeez, it's one thing for a midwesterner to be a mindless slave to phantom rules, it's another for an Aussie.

A real man chooses rebellion over rules. Particularly here on GR.

Mickelson used the word slander this weekend when referring to McCarron. He's got a solid case and I hope he takes that faggot McCarron for everything he's got.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]It was dissapointing to see Mickelson shoot himself out of the tournament by overswinging his driver! What a moron! One announcer said someone should break his driver and make him tee off with 3w.

He could have won the tournament. He could have won dozens of others. His record should be a lesson to every developing amateur--that a smooth controlled swing is FAR better than an out-of-control slash. [B]We all fight that tendency of course, but the Hale Irwins and Corey Pavins prove that smart beats wild every time[/B]. Mickelson is 40, and still hasn't learned much. Lights are on, but there is no intelligence up there.

Larry[/QUOTE]
Larry,

You are probably right that Phil is a moron and hasn't realised his full potential, but once again you've gone over the top with your Irwin and Pavin nonsense. As good as Irwin and Pavin are according to you Larry, I think I'd still rather have Phil's tournament record and bank balance. They may win ALL the money according to you, but I'd bet Phil could buy and sell both of them put together a few times over and still have change.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Obviously the brain damage Mickeleson suffered as a child is irreparable. But at least he's not one of those unfortunate nerd types that's always throwing rules in your face.

I suppose if I were beaten by classmates every day growing up, I'd probably whine about rules applying when they don't apply, too.

Jeez, it's one thing for a midwesterner to be a mindless slave to phantom rules, it's another for an Aussie.

A real man chooses rebellion over rules. Particularly here on GR.

Mickelson used the word slander this weekend when referring to McCarron. He's got a solid case and I hope he takes that faggot McCarron for everything he's got.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is not only is Phil a lowlife DB who skirts around the rules using loopholes that defeat the spirit of the rules, but that he is also a sook who goes running to his lawyers when somebody tells it like it is.

As we all know, defamation can only be proven when it is established that the comments were malicious and had no factual basis. If comments made, no matter how derogatory, are truthful, there is no case. So on the strength of this threat of legal action for defamation when Phil thinks he has been slandered untruthfully, would it be safe to assume that Phil's silence when Stevie called him a prick was an admission of guilt?

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]So what you're saying is not only is Phil a lowlife DB who skirts around the rules using loopholes that defeat the spirit of the rules, but that he is also a sook who goes running to his lawyers when somebody tells it like it is.

As we all know, defamation can only be proven when it is established that the comments were malicious and had no factual basis. If comments made, no matter how derogatory, are truthful, there is no case. So on the strength of this threat of legal action for defamation when Phil thinks he has been slandered untruthfully, would it be safe to assume that Phil's silence when Stevie called him a prick was an admission of guilt?[/QUOTE]


Very well crafted double talk. Incorrect publicly announced accusations are a litigator's dream. Maliciousness is, by law, presumed whenever the person in question is using a long putter. Faggot McCarron is nearing the end of a dismally underachieving career. After the lawsuit, he'll be working the ropes and turning his earnings over to Phil.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Very well crafted double talk. Incorrect publicly announced accusations are a litigator's dream. Maliciousness is, by law, presumed whenever the person in question is using a long putter. Faggot McCarron is nearing the end of a dismally underachieving career. After the lawsuit, he'll be working the ropes and turning his earnings over to Phil.[/QUOTE]
So it's agreed that Phil is not a cheat, but is definitely a prick. I think we can all live with that.

P.S. Personally I think McCarron and Phil should have settled this the old fashioned GR way in Brandson MO.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]So it's agreed that Phil is not a cheat, but is definitely a prick. I think we can all live with that.

P.S. Personally I think McCarron and Phil should have settled this the old fashioned GR way in Brandson MO.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. Let noone come back alive.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Larry,

You are probably right that Phil is a moron and hasn't realised his full potential, but once again you've gone over the top with your Irwin and Pavin nonsense. As good as Irwin and Pavin are according to you Larry, I think I'd still rather have Phil's tournament record and bank balance. They may win ALL the money according to you, but I'd bet Phil could buy and sell both of them put together a few times over and still have change.[/QUOTE]

As would I. However as a short knocking middle aged man I would benefit better by modelling my game on Pavin's smart play rather than Phil's bomb and gouge. Jesus, you should see the trouble I have getting out of the rough :mad2:

[QUOTE=A V Twiss]As would I. However as a short knocking middle aged man [B]I would benefit better by modelling my game on Pavin's smart play rather than Phil's bomb and gouge[/B]. Jesus, you should see the trouble I have getting out of the rough :mad2:[/QUOTE]
You have a point there. I still remember watching Pavin out think Norman to his US Open win. It was like watching death by a thousand paper cuts.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Agreed. Let noone come back alive.[/QUOTE]
In that case maybe they should take Sergio with them.

Just a few quick thoughts, edgey.
The Ping Eye II's are not grandfathered for play by the R&A, so they are cheating for pros in your part of the world. You should be outraged that the silly USGA won't get in lockstep with the both Royal and Ancient rules of golf.
The long putter is a b!tchmove (read, silly looking and pathetic, but still a swing of the handle), while the belly putter is flat out cheating. Just look down the list of pros who have used this "method" and you will see a trend.
The USGA rules allow the Ping Eye II's, so it isn't cheating, but playing them is a definitive b!tchmove. A poll backs this up conclusively.

I really think Phil is flipping the bird to the USGA by playing these clubs. He is a Callaway whore and they have had their issues with wedges being approved for play. He is sticking up for his paycheck at the expense of alienating fellow professionals like the wop Mediate, and attaining further b!tch status on legendary forums like GR.

[QUOTE=Larryrsf]It was dissapointing to see Mickelson shoot himself out of the tournament by overswinging his driver! What a moron! One announcer said someone should break his driver and make him tee off with 3w.

He could have won the tournament. He could have won dozens of others. His record should be a lesson to every developing amateur--that a smooth controlled swing is FAR better than an out-of-control slash. We all fight that tendency of course, but the [B]Hale Irwins and Corey Pavins[/B] prove that smart beats wild every time. Mickelson is 40, and still hasn't learned much. Lights are on, but there is no intelligence up there.

Larry[/QUOTE]

Nah, Phil's definitely much better than those 2.

Ironic for you to comment on his swing.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]So it's agreed that Phil is not a cheat, but is definitely a prick. I think we can all live with that.

P.S. Personally I think McCarron and Phil should have settled this the old fashioned GR way in Brandson MO.[/QUOTE]
No, they should have had a beer with Obama.....

[QUOTE=dorkman53]No, they should have had a beer with Obama.....[/QUOTE]

That was soooo gay whenever Obama did that. It wasn't so much that they got together and tried to resolve the issue over a beer, but it was just gay to have it staged as a press release and the brands of the beer mentioned.

Does anyone know if Harry Truman or Teddy Roosevelt are still alive? We could sure use a President that has brains and balls both. This "politically correct society" we live in today is the shites! Obama has neither balls or brains. George W. Bush had balls, but no brains. Clinton had balls, but he liked to use them only for sexual pleasure. George H. Bush had balls and brains, but he had a Democratic congress that had no balls or brains. Carter had brains, but no balls.

Reagan obviously had both and was the greatest President of our era, bar none. Still, I'd like to know what guys like Truman and Teddy Roosevelt would do today . . . . .

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]In that case maybe they should take Sergio with them.[/QUOTE]


As well as anyone with any genetic similarity to Sergio.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Just a few quick thoughts, edgey.
The Ping Eye II's are not grandfathered for play by the R&A, so they are cheating for pros in your part of the world. You should be outraged that the silly USGA won't get in lockstep with the both Royal and Ancient rules of golf.
The long putter is a b!tchmove (read, silly looking and pathetic, but still a swing of the handle), while the belly putter is flat out cheating. Just look down the list of pros who have used this "method" and you will see a trend.
The USGA rules allow the Ping Eye II's, so it isn't cheating, but playing them is a definitive b!tchmove. A poll backs this up conclusively.

I really think Phil is flipping the bird to the USGA by playing these clubs. He is a Callaway whore and they have had their issues with wedges being approved for play. He is sticking up for his paycheck at the expense of alienating fellow professionals like the wop Mediate, and attaining further b!tch status on legendary forums like GR.[/QUOTE]
i know that there are some guys that were still using ping eye II's on the regular tour their entire careers and in 09 and other tours, like lumpy aka tim herron, so is he cheating?

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]i know that there are some guys that were still using ping eye II's on the regular tour their entire careers and in 09 and other tours, like lumpy aka tim herron, so is he cheating?[/QUOTE]
DJ, this is not the first time you've got my position wrong. I'm saying the Eye II's are not cheating. The Lumpy argument holds no water for the following reason: every other pro had to switch irons this year. Keep defending your Pings, but at least know what the argument is. They are a legal loophole that the powerless commissioner will not close, fearing legal action from Ping.

Anybody got a complete list of pros who are using this wedge?

[QUOTE=Horseballs]Just a few quick thoughts, edgey.
The Ping Eye II's are not grandfathered for play by the R&A, so they are cheating for pros in your part of the world. You should be outraged that the silly USGA won't get in lockstep with the both Royal and Ancient rules of golf.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, they wont be used at THE OPEN as the R&A were not frightened by Ping in 1990. As such they are banned in any R&A sanctioned event.

No one has worked out what will happen at the Ryder Cup yet though, interesting....

[QUOTE=Horseballs]The long putter is a b!tchmove (read, silly looking and pathetic, but still a swing of the handle), while the belly putter is flat out cheating. Just look down the list of pros who have used this "method" and you will see a trend.[/QUOTE]

Agreed

[QUOTE=Horseballs]The USGA rules allow the Ping Eye II's, so it isn't cheating, but playing them is a definitive b!tchmove. A poll backs this up conclusively.

I really think Phil is flipping the bird to the USGA by playing these clubs. He is a Callaway whore and they have had their issues with wedges being approved for play. He is sticking up for his paycheck at the expense of alienating fellow professionals like the wop Mediate, and attaining further b!tch status on legendary forums like GR.[/QUOTE]

Agreed again. This is shite, me and you never agree. In fact even when i do agree with you i dont on principle :D

Edgey

[QUOTE=Horseballs]DJ, this is not the first time you've got my position wrong. I'm saying the Eye II's are not cheating. The Lumpy argument holds no water for the following reason: every other pro had to switch irons this year. Keep defending your Pings, but at least know what the argument is. They are a legal loophole that the powerless commissioner will not close, fearing legal action from Ping.[/QUOTE]
i don't remember the other infraction hb however a ***** move to use eye 2s? how about it's a ***** move to put them in your bag? i can live with that but in fairness to guys like lumpy, i think its ok to use them if that has been your franchise career choice sort of speak.

Edgey,

Who gives a flying fuk about the Ryder Cup? Any event that some little POS like Sergio can win obviously doesn't have much pressure involved. The only reason thre wops, spics and crooked teeth DBs keep winning it is because the US team doesn't really care about it.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Edgey,

Who gives a flying fuk about the Ryder Cup? Any event that some little POS like Sergio can win obviously doesn't have much pressure involved. The only reason thre wops, spics and crooked teeth DBs keep winning it is because the US team doesn't really care about it.[/QUOTE]

For the most part, you are correct. However, two years ago, there were enough "young bucks" on the US team to actually care about winning. So, consequently, they won. Golfers like Tiger and Phil couldn't give a shite . . . . .

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Edgey,

Who gives a flying fuk about the Ryder Cup? Any event that some little POS like Sergio can win obviously doesn't have much pressure involved. The only reason thre wops, spics and crooked teeth DBs keep winning it is because the US team doesn't really care about it.[/QUOTE]
I'd guess they are playing R&A rules since it's in Wales. I like the US team's chances if tang-chasing Woods isn't on the team. Although he'd likely have to fly in a bunch of whores since the whole British Empire is chock full of pasty ugly chicks with bad skin, teeth, etc. He is a cancer in the team room, and his I-don't-give-sh!t attitude won't be missed.
NaH, I was rooting for your Aussie boy on Sunday at Torrey Pines until he decided to lay up on 18.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]DJ, this is not the first time you've got my position wrong. I'm saying the Eye II's are not cheating. The Lumpy argument holds no water for the following reason: every other pro had to switch irons this year. Keep defending your Pings, but at least know what the argument is. They are a legal loophole that the powerless commissioner will not close, fearing legal action from Ping.[/QUOTE]

the world "loophole" implies an incomplete or ineffective set of rules which contain an accidental opening thru which clever people can slip...

THIS IS NOT A LOOPHOLE. The rule doesn't say "all these clubs must now have this new volume of groove' and then accidentally leaves PING off the list... it says "all clubs EXCEPT THIS ONE"... it is not a loophole, it is specifically PART OF THE RULES.

It isn't 'evading the spirit of the rules' to play that club. IT [B]IS[/B] THE RULES. The spirit of the rule is certainly ill served, but the ill service is in the GRANDFATHERING OF THAT CLUB, not in the use of it by players.

Let the USGA, the PGA and Karsten Ping sort this out. But if it's legal, and some players do it, the other players should STFU or else get one themselves.

Lorenzo, did you just delete your post? I can't quote it and chastise you in the name of the Pope . . . . . . [img]http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/heroes-smileys-64589/pope.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=daveperkins]the world "loophole" implies an incomplete or ineffective set of rules which contain an accidental opening thru which clever people can slip...

THIS IS NOT A LOOPHOLE. The rule doesn't say "all these clubs must now have this new volume of groove' and then accidentally leaves PING off the list... it says "all clubs EXCEPT THIS ONE"... it is not a loophole, it is specifically PART OF THE RULES.

It isn't 'evading the spirit of the rules' to play that club. IT [B]IS[/B] THE RULES. The spirit of the rule is certainly ill served, but the ill service is in the GRANDFATHERING OF THAT CLUB, not in the use of it by players.

Let the USGA, the PGA and Karsten Ping sort this out. But if it's legal, and some players do it, the other players should STFU or else get one themselves.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your definition and feel it applies to these Ping wedges. Do you the PGA Tour is in any way happy about Ping being exempted? I think you are giving too much credit to the PGA and USGA. I bet they are chastising their lawyers for not including language (or at least examining the posibility) to include Ping Eye 2's as illegal for play.

The USGA isn't able to declare the Pings illegal per their settlement with Ping from long ago. That's why they're to blame in this. If anyone is lacking integrity here, it's the USGA for acting as though those clubs don't exist and they didn't agree to their exemption. But they do and they did.

This episode shows how foolish the USGA is. There are intelligent options available. Ban new technologies. Roll back the ball. Instead they chose to do something foolish. Bad enough they manage to f.uck up the U.S. Open most years.

And the players are in the clear on this because anyone can use the Pings that decides to do so. So why accomodate the USGA's stupid whims? Pros should be sticking it to the USGA every chance they get.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]The USGA isn't able to declare the Pings illegal per their settlement with Ping from long ago. That's why they're to blame in this. If anyone is lacking integrity here, it's the USGA for acting as though those clubs don't exist and they didn't agree to their exemption. But they do and they did.

This episode shows how foolish the USGA is. There are intelligent options available. Ban new technologies. Roll back the ball. Instead they chose to do something foolish. Bad enough they manage to f.uck up the U.S. Open most years.

And the players are in the clear on this because anyone can use the Pings that decides to do so. So why accomodate the USGA's stupid whims? Pros should be sticking it to the USGA every chance they get.[/QUOTE]
I agree...

What are they trying to accomplish? Getting more guys to lay up?...Is that going to help grow the sport?

[QUOTE=The Purist]I agree...

What are they trying to accomplish? Getting more guys to lay up?...Is that going to help grow the sport?[/QUOTE]


And it'll be way more fun watching the short knocking Corey Pavins of the world get airtime than Bubba and the other long hitters.

It's bad enough Hale Irwin wins all the money.

You know, they could have sorted this out much easier.

The goal was to hobble the longest hitters by making it harder for them to hit tight approaches from their 350 yd drives in the rough, right? Less spin, harder to stop the ball, hence more effort to hit fairways and thus more 'fairness' between long and short hitters, or so the logic went.

So why didn't they just set a standard for growing the rough? Say, if it's more than 290 off the tee the rough has to add two inches, 310 yds off the tee gets two MORE inches and a narrower fairway cut, etc etc, until the risk reward ratio for blasting driver becomes unmanageable.

Then they'll hit shorter clubs off tees, so they can avoid the deepest nasty rough that waits out there for Holmes and company. And if a blaster WANTS to take that risk, he can, but it will wreck him if he misses the fairway by one inch.

It would have been limited to the greens crew, rather than changing all the equipment.

Then again, new equipment means the market is stimulated into replacing clubs, knowing their old ones are 'not legal' for tour play. So maybe this was a sop to the club manufacturers, this groove change.

I think changing the courses would have been easier.

[QUOTE=daveperkins]You know, they could have sorted this out much easier.

The goal was to hobble the longest hitters by making it harder for them to hit tight approaches from their 350 yd drives in the rough, right? Less spin, harder to stop the ball, hence more effort to hit fairways and thus more 'fairness' between long and short hitters, or so the logic went.

So why didn't they just set a standard for growing the rough? Say, if it's more than 290 off the tee the rough has to add two inches, 310 yds off the tee gets two MORE inches and a narrower fairway cut, etc etc, until the risk reward ratio for blasting driver becomes unmanageable.

Then they'll hit shorter clubs off tees, so they can avoid the deepest nasty rough that waits out there for Holmes and company. And if a blaster WANTS to take that risk, he can, but it will wreck him if he misses the fairway by one inch.

It would have been limited to the greens crew, rather than changing all the equipment.

Then again, new equipment means the market is stimulated into replacing clubs, knowing their old ones are 'not legal' for tour play. So maybe this was a sop to the club manufacturers, this groove change.

I think changing the courses would have been easier.[/QUOTE]
I understand where you're coming from so far as a strategy to appease the USGAs goal of hobbling long hitters, but why do they need to do this to start with? I think that instead of growing rough to deter long hitting, they should reverse it and set courses up to encourage long hitting. Nothing excites crowds more than a long hitter reaching for the big dog and swinging out of his shoes on every hole. If anyone needs to be whittled out of the game, it's the pathetic short knockers, not the bombers.

[QUOTE=Horseballs]I'd guess they are playing R&A rules since it's in Wales. I like the US team's chances if tang-chasing Woods isn't on the team. Although he'd likely have to fly in a bunch of whores since the whole British Empire is chock full of pasty ugly chicks with bad skin, teeth, etc. He is a cancer in the team room, and his I-don't-give-sh!t attitude won't be missed.
[B]NaH, I was rooting for your Aussie boy on Sunday at Torrey Pines until he decided to lay up on 18[/B].[/QUOTE]
I only got to watch the highlights, but I was ashamed to be an Aussie watching such a gutless display. All the commentators were expecting him to hit 3 wood, and openly lambasted him for laying up. He had a real chance to not only put the pressure on and maybe win the tournament, but also gain the undying respect of the fans by going for the swashbuckling play. All the fans in the gallery wanted to se him go for the green in two, all the fans watching on TV wanted to see him go for the green in two, but he dogged it and played for second. This decsision will hurt Sim for a long time to come.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I only got to watch the highlights, but I was ashamed to be an Aussie watching such a gutless display. All the commentators were expecting him to hit 3 wood, and openly lambasted him for laying up. He had a real chance to not only put the pressure on and maybe win the tournament, but also gain the undying respect of the fans by going for the swashbuckling play. All the fans in the gallery wanted to se him go for the green in two, all the fans watching on TV wanted to see him go for the green in two, but he dogged it and played for second. This decsision will hurt Sim for a long time to come.[/QUOTE]
Didn't Tiger lay up on the same hole and made his birdie at the us open in 08? 3 wood may have taken him out of the tournament, he obviously didn't feel comfortbale with the lie and that 3rd shot is dunkable. Who are we to say?

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]Didn't Tiger lay up on the same hole and made his birdie at the us open in 08? 3 wood may have taken him out of the tournament, he obviously didn't feel comfortbale with the lie and that 3rd shot is dunkable. Who are we to say?[/QUOTE]
I don't recall exactly where Tiger's drive was in the US Open, but Sim was smack bang in perfect position to go for the green. This was also not a major championship, and Sim doesn't have Tiger's intimidation over the rest of the field, knowing they will fold. I would imagine that if Tiger were in Sim's position yesterday he would have gone for the green. It was a no brainer, but Sim dogged it.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I don't recall exactly where Tiger's drive was in the US Open, but Sim was smack bang in perfect position to go for the green. This was also not a major championship, and Sim doesn't have Tiger's intimidation over the rest of the field, knowing they will fold. I would imagine that if Tiger were in Sim's position yesterday he would have gone for the green. It was a no brainer, but Sim dogged it.[/QUOTE]
well played, i have to concur and it happend in the previous week as well with Bubba Watson, not going for it last week along with that short knocker from south africa

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I understand where you're coming from so far as a strategy to appease the USGAs goal of hobbling long hitters, but why do they need to do this to start with? I think that instead of growing rough to deter long hitting, they should reverse it and set courses up to encourage long hitting. Nothing excites crowds more than a long hitter reaching for the big dog and swinging out of his shoes on every hole. If anyone needs to be whittled out of the game, it's the pathetic short knockers, not the bombers.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I"m not sure where they got this particular impulse. Not being long enough is sort of a disqualification from competitive play, isn't it...

Part of it is the course, though.. they can't add any more length to some of them, and the appeal of a course like Augusta is comparing play over decades between each generation's best.. so instead of lengthening the course (impossible for some, like Harbor TOwn), they have to hobble hitters, and perhaps some courses don't lend themselves to high rough and changed shape and size of fairways (Harbor town doesn't).. only thing to do is penalize long hitters with worse results... like wedges that bounce over greens.

I dunno. Seems silly. Watson was competitive at the Open purely because it is not a long course. He said so. So why not leave it like that? Some courses are short, and shortknockers are competitive there. Some are long, and big hitters have advantage.

Why not leave it there? Who knows.

[QUOTE=daveperkins]Yeah, I"m not sure where they got this particular impulse. Not being long enough is sort of a disqualification from competitive play, isn't it...

Part of it is the course, though.. they can't add any more length to some of them, and the appeal of a course like Augusta is comparing play over decades between each generation's best.. so instead of lengthening the course (impossible for some, like Harbor TOwn), they have to hobble hitters, and perhaps some courses don't lend themselves to high rough and changed shape and size of fairways (Harbor town doesn't).. only thing to do is penalize long hitters with worse results... like wedges that bounce over greens.

I dunno. Seems silly. [B]Watson was competitive at the Open purely because it is not a long course. He said so. So why not leave it like that? Some courses are short, and shortknockers are competitive there. Some are long, and big hitters have advantage.[/B]
Why not leave it there? Who knows.[/QUOTE]
It is absoultely true that some of the most exciting holes in the new bomb and gouge era are the short par 4s, not the long ones. Long par 4s just give a straight out advantage to the long bomber as they get rewarded for getting closer to the green, but don't have any greater risk. The short par 4s are where the risk/reward comes more sharply into play. Having holes reachable with driver are tantalisingly tempting to long bombers, but can also bring into play bigger penalties, around the green, for being wayward with the driver which aren't always there for long par 4s. Shorter holes and courses bring course management back into the game for all players, long courses simply play more into the hands of the bombers. As far as growing the rough to try to protect the course from bombers, it might make the winning score higher but still plays into the hands of the long hitters. A 250 yard drive into deep rough is still going to more penal than a drive 50 yards further up the fairway in the same rough. And long courses virtually force the short hitters to hit driver on every hole, taking away options. The USGA should be less concerned about protecting par, and more concerned in presenting courses that reward good course management and give all length players a chance.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]It is absoultely true that some of the most exciting holes in the new bomb and gouge era are the short par 4s, not the long ones. Long par 4s just give a straight out advantage to the long bomber as they get rewarded for getting closer to the green, but don't have any greater risk. The short par 4s are where the risk/reward comes more sharply into play. Having holes reachable with driver are tantalisingly tempting to long bombers, but can also bring into play bigger penalties, around the green, for being wayward with the driver which aren't always there for long par 4s. Shorter holes and courses bring course management back into the game for all players, long courses simply play more into the hands of the bombers.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more. This week at Riviera, the 10th hole exemplifies what you're talking about and is possibly the best hole on tour. It's certainly one of the most interesting.

I'll be there on Friday and will spend more time at the 10th hole than anywhere else. And because of it's location relative to the clubhouse, it seems to attract more hot poon than any other hole.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Couldn't agree more. This week at Riviera, the 10th hole exemplifies what you're talking about and is possibly the best hole on tour. It's certainly one of the most interesting.

I'll be there on Friday and will spend more time at the 10th hole than anywhere else. [B]And because of it's location relative to the clubhouse, it seems to attract more hot poon than any other hole[/B].[/QUOTE]
We expect details and pics.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]We expect details and pics.[/QUOTE]
scott mcarron did an interview on the golf channel this morning apologizing to Phil for calling him a cheat but then went on to say when asked about his long putter. "you can buy long putters anywhere but where are you going to find ping eye 2s at a garage sale?" then he went on to say that he thought the rule would be changed in 90 to 120 days.

The golf analyst disagreed and also pointed out that anyone knows you can find these clubs on ebay. Mcarran seemed apologetic but you can tell he is seething about it and not going to give up this fight.

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]scott mcarron did an interview on the golf channel this morning apologizing to Phil for calling him a cheat but then went on to say when asked about his long putter. "you can buy long putters anywhere but where are you going to find ping eye 2s at a garage sale?" then he went on to say that he thought the rule would be changed in 90 to 120 days.

The golf analyst disagreed and also pointed out that anyone knows you can find these clubs on ebay. Mcarran seemed apologetic but you can tell he is seething about it and not going to give up this fight.[/QUOTE]

His choices were retract and agree with Phil or work for Phil the rest of his pathetic life. This is known as fornicating oneself.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]His choices were retract and agree with Phil or work for Phil the rest of his pathetic life. This is known as fornicating oneself.[/QUOTE]
who's pathetic life? i always find it strange that we can judge a pro golfer's life as being pathetic...ironic being on a golf forum to say...i would trade lives with any of them in a heartbeat.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]We expect details and pics.[/QUOTE]

No cameras allowed but I can do my best with verbal images.

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]who's pathetic life? i always find it strange that we can judge a pro golfer's life as being pathetic...ironic being on a golf forum to say...i would trade lives with any of them in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

Well, without getting into eastern philosophy, we all reach the place we'll reach and it becomes our reality. An accomplished dishwasher's life is more in harmony than a professional athlete who carves a shwastika into his own forehead (as depicted in Inglourious Basterds).

Your willingness to trade lives with someone else suggests tragic disharmony. At least your personal debacles aren't publicly known. If you traded lives with McCarreon, that would change.

[QUOTE=Donald Jackson]who's pathetic life? i always find it strange that we can judge a pro golfer's life as being pathetic...ironic being on a golf forum to say...i would trade lives with any of them in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

The grass is always greener. :rolleyes:
The life of a touring pro is not as fantastic as it looks on the outside. Sure if you have some success it is very lucrative; but those pros in the top 125 are the absolute elite. For every one of them there are 100 or even 1000 who have a stressful and disconected career. Imagine when every 4 foot putt has the potential to cost you big time.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]The grass is always greener. :rolleyes:
The life of a touring pro is not as fantastic as it looks on the outside. Sure if you have some success it is very lucrative; but those pros in the top 125 are the absolute elite. For every one of them there are 100 or even 1000 who have a stressful and disconected career. Imagine when every 4 foot putt has the potential to cost you big time.[/QUOTE]
Stressful and disconnected is probably true for most of them, i am trying to imagine all the broken hearts.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]The grass is always greener. :rolleyes:
The life of a touring pro is not as fantastic as it looks on the outside. Sure if you have some success it is very lucrative; but those pros in the top 125 are the absolute elite. For every one of them there are 100 or even 1000 who have a stressful and disconected career. Imagine when every 4 foot putt has the potential to cost you big time.[/QUOTE]
The number of former 'big name' players sitting behind the starters desk as assistant pros at suburban golf courses would surprise some. I personally wouldn't wish to trade places with the golf pros I know. 13 hour days, 6.00am starts, working every weekend, sitting behind a counter selling cokes and pies, watching everyone play golf but you. And all for not much above minimum wage.

And even for the ones good enough to eak out a living playing, there are the endless hours alone on the practice range and putting green (how many here can honestly say they have spent even one day in their entire life where they practiced for 10 hours. These guys do it every day from the age of about 15 or 16 right through their whole career). Managing the associated injuries of hitting hundreds of balls a day and playing 5 rounds a week during tour events. Monday qualifying. Q school. Standing over a putt knowing it's worth anywhere up to $250,000 plus if you make it.

I think like most things in life, people only see the presentations on TV and see Tiger holding up the trophy and wish they could be him, but don't realise the sacrifices and dedication required to get to that position.

[QUOTE=edgey]Hi

As most on here are aware Mr McCarron has stated that Phil Mickleson is "cheating" for using a pre 1990 Ping Eye 2 wedge (a legal club under USGA guidelines) and that he is not playing in the spirit of the rules.

This is of course Scott McCarron who has been using a long handled putter for a number of years and who has undoubtdly used same putter to measure 1 or 2 club lengths for a drop etc, as you would for a pro so interested in the "spirit of the rules of gol f".

The hypocrisy of someone arguing about cheating and the "spirit of golf rules" while wielding a club which many pro's (Norman for 1) feel breaks the spirit of the rules of golf beggars belief. None of them have somewhat arrogantly pronounced him a cheat though.

Since the long putter is legal i am fine with it, but please Mr McCarron be careful about throwing the words "cheat" and "spirit of the rules" about as the hypocrisy is becoming a little too much to bear in your case.

Regards[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. A belly putter is bad enough but hauling around one of those 50-inch monstrosities is pure faggotry. How could you possibly accuse someone else of cheating who is using a brilliant club like the Ping Eye 2 Lob Wedge when you are using a broomstick for a putter.

What I can't comprehend is why McCarron would say any of this in the first place. What could he possibly gain by talking to the press about Mickelson?

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I completely agree. A belly putter is bad enough but hauling around one of those 50-inch monstrosities is pure faggotry. How could you possibly accuse someone else of cheating who is using a brilliant club like the Ping Eye 2 Lob Wedge when you are using a broomstick for a putter.

What I can't comprehend is why McCarron would say any of this in the first place. What could he possibly gain by talking to the press about Mickelson?[/QUOTE]

McCarron has now apologised to Mickleson and pubicly announced same to the world. What a total KNOB!

Edegy

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]The number of former 'big name' players sitting behind the starters desk as assistant pros at suburban golf courses would surprise some. [B]I personally wouldn't wish to trade places with the golf pros I know. 13 hour days, 6.00am starts, working every weekend, sitting behind a counter selling cokes and pies, watching everyone play golf but you. And all for not much above minimum wage.[/B]

[/QUOTE]

Don't forget the privilege and fun of giving endless lessons to old semi retired, 20+ handicap hackers & novices like Larry.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Don't forget the privilege and fun of giving endless lessons to old semi retired, 20+ handicap hackers & novices like Larry.[/QUOTE]
its a long day too, i have seen the looks on these guys faces when they're trying to teach and they always are on their cell phones or texting...it's a show.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]A 250 yard drive into deep rough is still going to more penal than a drive 50 yards further up the fairway in the same rough. .[/QUOTE]

This, again, is where my idea comes in. Make the rough closer to the tee LESS rough. In fact, if a guy wants to hit 200 yds off the tee on a 425 yd par 4, he should have all fairway and no rough.

REALLY force them to choose between distance and accuracy. Anyone who wants to hit it 300 can take their chances. The guy who settles for a hybrid off the tee can hit in with a mid iron from the fairway, and the guy who blasts one off the tee can hit his wedge out of 8 inch deep rough, and we'll see who wins.

Make it ALL rough past 300 yards. Pavin can hit driver, and Bubba can hit 6 iron. They both get their tee shot to the same place. Pavin, then, is still handicapped by shortness and has to hit more iron than Bubba, but Bubba can't hit it further off the tee and still have a shot.

Or graduate the rough right across the fairway, the farther you hit the tee ball the rougher it gets.

Make them choose. Shortknockers are instantly competitive. Wedgemeisters have no shot.

Just tossin' it out there......

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Well, without getting into eastern philosophy, we all reach the place we'll reach and it becomes our reality. An accomplished dishwasher's life is more in harmony than a professional athlete who carves a shwastika into his own forehead (as depicted in Inglourious Basterds).

Your willingness to trade lives with someone else suggests tragic disharmony. At least your personal debacles aren't publicly known. If you traded lives with McCarreon, that would change.[/QUOTE]

I'd be willing to trade my life if I could be a porn star with a 10 inch schlong. Since that's just fantasy I guess I'll have to settle with my 9 inches.

[QUOTE=daveperkins]This, again, is where my idea comes in. Make the rough closer to the tee LESS rough. In fact, if a guy wants to hit 200 yds off the tee on a 425 yd par 4, he should have all fairway and no rough.

REALLY force them to choose between distance and accuracy. Anyone who wants to hit it 300 can take their chances. The guy who settles for a hybrid off the tee can hit in with a mid iron from the fairway, and the guy who blasts one off the tee can hit his wedge out of 8 inch deep rough, and we'll see who wins.

Make it ALL rough past 300 yards. Pavin can hit driver, and Bubba can hit 6 iron. They both get their tee shot to the same place. Pavin, then, is still handicapped by shortness and has to hit more iron than Bubba, but Bubba can't hit it further off the tee and still have a shot.

Or graduate the rough right across the fairway, the farther you hit the tee ball the rougher it get

Make them choose. Shortknockers are instantly competitive. Wedgemeisters have no shot.

Just tossin' it out there......[/QUOTE]

It's hardly Darwinian Dave.
The idea has merit but shouldn't the best, longest, and strongest win?
Handicap golf is for mere mortals like you and me to allow us to have our day in the sun. Shortknockers on tour just have to work to excell at their longiron and shortgame if they want to succeed.

[QUOTE=edgey]McCarron has now apologised to Mickleson and pubicly announced same to the world. What a total KNOB!

Edegy[/QUOTE]
Moobs has now taken the Pings out of the bag "out of respect to the wishes of my fellow pro's" read: because he doesn't want to face a locker room beat down the next time he crosses McCarron. McCarron was the only one with the guts to say what every pro thought, and should be applauded for giving titty boy the media whomping he deserved.

I just wonder if Moobs is being genuine, or it was because he found out that Ping Eye2 wedges are such POS cast SGI chopper paddles that no amount of spin from the rough could make up for their shortcomings.

Personally I think it was the latter and he was going to ditch them for performance reasons, but he decided to put a dishonest spin on it to get some free positive PR at the same time. What a worm.

[QUOTE=oldplayer]It's hardly Darwinian Dave.
The idea has merit but shouldn't the best, longest, and strongest win?
Handicap golf is for mere mortals like you and me to allow us to have our day in the sun. Shortknockers on tour just have to work to excell at their longiron and shortgame if they want to succeed.[/QUOTE]


I don't think Darwin ever turned pro, did he? :-)

But, to re-coin an old phrase, "only the long survive" is not exactly the most interesting way of seeing golf play out on television.

[QUOTE=daveperkins]I don't think Darwin ever turned pro, did he? :-)

But, to re-coin an old phrase, "only the long survive" is not exactly the most interesting way of seeing golf play out on television.[/QUOTE]

Actually Darwin was introduced to Larry many years ago. Larry sat him down and gave him some quick pointers. Charles then decided that to play would be evolutionary regression. And the rest is history......

Regarding your second point. Is the staging of the PGA Tour competition for the benefit of T.V. watching consumers, or a genuine attempt to play the game to it's highest potential with both equipment and players?

[QUOTE=oldplayer]Actually Darwin was introduced to Larry many years ago. Larry sat him down and gave him some quick pointers. Charles then decided that to play would be evolutionary regression. And the rest is history......

Regarding your second point. Is the staging of the PGA Tour competition for the benefit of T.V. watching consumers, or a genuine attempt to play the game to it's highest potential with both equipment and players?[/QUOTE]
The PGA Tour is a TV ratings driven organisation whose major source of income is TV contracts. Why else would they have courses set up so easy that 'professional' tournaments become target golf putting contests. The fans (on TV at least) love seeing pros knockig down flags all day and shoot low scores, so the courses are set up to accomodate them, with very receptive greens. It's not until you get to the majors that courses are set up to provide a true test of golf, and as such you see the cream rise to the top (except at the Masters which shouldn't be a major based on it's list of recent champions). Funny thing is, it's the majors that get the highest ratings, not the 25 under regular tour events, so the officials who set up the courses to make it tough must be doing something right.

[QUOTE=famousdavis]I'd be willing to trade my life if I could be a porn star with a 10 inch schlong. Since that's just fantasy I guess I'll have to settle with my 9 inches.[/QUOTE]


10 inches isn't all it's cranked up to be.

Ok, it is.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]The PGA Tour is a TV ratings driven organisation whose major source of income is TV contracts. Why else would they have courses set up so easy that 'professional' tournaments become target golf putting contests. The fans (on TV at least) love seeing pros knockig down flags all day and shoot low scores, so the courses are set up to accomodate them, with very receptive greens. It's not until you get to the majors that courses are set up to provide a true test of golf, and as such you see the cream rise to the top (except at the Masters which shouldn't be a major based on it's list of recent champions). Funny thing is, it's the majors that get the highest ratings, not the 25 under regular tour events, so the officials who set up the courses to make it tough must be doing something right.[/QUOTE]


Apparently, though, from what I have been seeing, their main source of income comes from the "Haney Project" and "infomercials" . . . . one wonders why they show the actual events at all anymore, especially with Tiger out of the action.

[QUOTE=edgey]McCarron has now apologised to Mickleson and pubicly announced same to the world. What a total KNOB!

Edegy[/QUOTE]

McCarron's a knob for piping up instead of just beating the daylights out of Moobs.. on the course, I mean.. :-) or maybe he could hit Moobs from a great distance using that broom of a putter...

it comes back to' RULES ARE RULES, AND THOSE ARE THE RULES. Good grief.. Moobs should have just said that. Instead he went into this tortured explanation of how he was trying to provoke the tour into tackling Solheim over the old lawsuit...

why didn't he just say 'the rules allow me to play this wedge, so I"m playing it'?

And why did McCarron have to slanderously use the word "cheat"? His own lawyer will have been the reason he 'apologized'. Mr McCarron, you WILL lose this lawsuit and it will cost you MILLIONS, unless you take it back RIGHT NOW.

That guy was worth whatever McBroomer pays him.