Not sure I understand the hybrid "debate"

I'm not sure why the "purists" and/or the low handicappers take such offense to hybrids, and was hoping someone could explain it in a more in-depth manner than "you're a pu$$y".

For the purists - if you're such a purist, why aren't you using a brassie, a mashie, and a niblick - all with hickory shafts and leather grips? While we're at it, where are your mesh balls? If it's because those clubs aren't used anymore, then why should you be against hybrids when they're in virtually every tour player's bag (except Tiger Woods). Why don't you speak out with such ire about other newer golf technologies like 3-ball putters and graphite shafts and square drivers, or about chipping irons?

For the near-scratchers - If you can hit your 3-iron pure 16/20 times, why wouldn't you want a club that would allow you to mask your four errors and leave your mis-hits almost as long and almost-as on line, maybe saving you a stroke every three rounds, thereby lowering your handicap, winning an extra skin or nassau, or placing higher in your club tourney? I completely understand why you would want to use your traditional 3-iron at the range when you're working on your swing. I do the same thing. But come round-time, my $40 hybrid is in the bag, simply because I hit the piss out of it.

[QUOTE=frankdmann] But come round-time, my $40 hybrid is in the bag, simply because I hit the piss out of it.[/QUOTE]

Mine cost $50, but the rest of the story matches up pretty well.

In fact, it's so good it replaced my two AND three iron. :-)

Keep it to yourself, but I have an engineer buddy working on a hybrid lob wedge. it has extra weight moved below the center of gravity, so it gets the ball up more quickly than a standard lob wedge.

You can only hit it about 15 yards, but it takes a couple of minutes to come down.

The thing is son, hybrids are built for hackers. Therefore most of them are made to draw the golf ball. Most good golfers despise the draw and want to hit a fade with ever club except the driver(fade is still valuable).

Now with off set and heel weighting ect. It's difficult for a better golfer to keep hybrids from hooking more than Cargo's mother when she has a cash flow problem.

Now, there are hybrids out there that aren't hook machines, it's just damn hard to find one that you like look, feel, and performance of.


Sincerely,



JS

frank,

You have uncovered another high handicapper piece of equipment that can be added to the *** collection of things that would never be found in the bag of a real man, To cast POS GI shovels, reg flex shafts, long putters and of course the hybrid: we can add the chipper. Don't know how we missed that one, they are only ever seen in the most useless of hackers bags and are an absolute waste of space.

Lift your game Omen, BJ, HB, JS etc. we should have been jumping all over this ugly monstronsity long ago.

[QUOTE=golfaholic]The thing is son, hybrids are built for hackers. Therefore most of them are made to draw the golf ball. Most good golfers despise the draw and want to hit a fade with ever club except the driver(fade is still valuable).

Now with off set and heel weighting ect. It's difficult for a better golfer to keep hybrids from hooking more than Cargo's mother when she has a cash flow problem.

Now, there are hybrids out there that aren't hook machines, it's just damn hard to find one that you like look, feel, and performance of.

Sincerely,

JS[/QUOTE]

I concur. Except in the case of CP's mom. It's not difficult, it's impossible.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]

Lift your game Omen, BJ, HB, JS etc. we should have been jumping all over this ugly monstronsity long ago.[/QUOTE]

Wow, we really slipped up on this one. I guess non of of considerd it a golf club, therefore didn't think to bash the living phuck out of it.

Dosn't matter how much you dress it up, my hands will never ****ing touch one of these things.

Made by Odyssey - Made for hackers.

[URL="http://www.odysseygolf.com/en.PRODUCTS.PUTTINGWEDGE.html"]http://www.odysseygolf.com/en.PRODUCTS.PUTTINGWEDGE.html[/URL]

So other than the usual "hybrids are faggoty" argument, I haven't seen much here. What about them irks so many? Sounds just like a style thing more than anything else. Do all of you guys oppose long pants and ball caps out there too?

I hate to admit it, but you are right on the money with this one JS. The sight of one of these being pulled from a hackers bag makes me cringe.

[QUOTE=frankdmann]So other than the usual "hybrids are faggoty" argument, I haven't seen much here. What about them irks so many? Sounds just like a style thing more than anything else. Do all of you guys oppose long pants and ball caps out there too?[/QUOTE]

Oppose long pants? Are you mentally challenged? Slacks are all I want to see on the golf course unless it's 35ºC. Then, It's ok to pull out a nice pair of ironed shorts that have only 4 pockets. 2 front, 2 on the ass. None of this cargo shorts BS.

[QUOTE=frankdmann]So other than the usual "hybrids are faggoty" argument, I haven't seen much here. What about them irks so many? Sounds just like a style thing more than anything else. Do all of you guys oppose long pants and ball caps out there too?[/QUOTE]
There is a small, noisy minority on this board who think it is a a real hoot to repeat the same old joke, endlessly. I wish I had a dollar for every time this absolutely hilarious idea has been repeated on this board recently.
They are not interested in logic. They are not interested in how stupid they look to the rest of the board. They are consumed with themselves, and how funny they think they are.
Sadly, they are mistaken.

[QUOTE=golfaholic]Oppose long pants? Are you mentally challenged? Slacks are all I want to see on the golf course unless it's 35ºC. Then, It's ok to pull out a nice pair of ironed shorts that have only 4 pockets. 2 front, 2 on the ass. None of this cargo shorts BS.[/QUOTE]

I meant as opposed to a good ol' pair of knickers and argile socks, not as opposed to shorts. So I guess that qualifies me as NOT mentally challenged.

As for the shorts, I would challenge anyone on this board to play a full round toting your bag on a July afternoon in Las Vegas --in pants.

Still haven't heard anything in defense of the "no hybrid" argument, other than they're for hackers and faggots (like everyone on the tour save TW).

[QUOTE=frankdmann]I meant as opposed to a good ol' pair of knickers and argile socks, not as opposed to shorts. So I guess that qualifies me as NOT mentally challenged.

As for the shorts, I would challenge anyone on this board to play a full round toting your bag on a July afternoon in Las Vegas --in pants.

Still haven't heard anything in defense of the "no hybrid" argument, other than they're for hackers and faggots (like everyone on the tour save TW).[/QUOTE]
When you are in junior high, you don't need anything but insecure self-obsession.

[QUOTE=golfaholic]Wow, we really slipped up on this one. I guess non of of considerd it a golf club, therefore didn't think to bash the living phuck out of it.

Dosn't matter how much you dress it up, my hands will never ****ing touch one of these things.

Made by Odyssey - Made for hackers.

[URL="http://www.odysseygolf.com/en.PRODUCTS.PUTTINGWEDGE.html"]http://www.odysseygolf.com/en.PRODUCTS.PUTTINGWEDGE.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

I do own a Cobra DWS 18 degree as my 5 wood replacement. I have to agree that the thing is a hook machine. I probably should have gotten the Baffler Pro model. I may end up picking up the Tour Edge CB2 5 wood instead.

Now onto chippers. You can usually find those in the bag of some duffer that has 18 clubs including some Alien or F2 wedges. You can spot them a mile away. There is usually a ball retriever hooked to the side of their bag that extends to 35 feet or more. Dead give away.

[QUOTE=Rainkingjr]I do own a Cobra DWS 18 degree as my 5 wood replacement. I have to agree that the thing is a hook machine. I probably should have gotten the Baffler Pro model. I may end up picking up the Tour Edge CB2 5 wood instead.

Now onto chippers. You can usually find those in the bag of some duffer that has 18 clubs including some Alien or F2 wedges. You can spot them a mile away. There is usually a ball retriever hooked to the side of their bag that extends to 35 feet or more. Dead give away.[/QUOTE]
I REALLY don't want to get the whole hybrid thing going again, but you really have to look at the clubhead design and the shaft of hybrids. Many hybrids are "anti-slice" designs; closed faces and/or heel weighted and/or very flexible, weak shafts. Then there are designs that are neutrally weighted, square faced, and shafted appropriately.

One group is designed to help people with bad swings hit the ball straighter. The other type is designed to give people who have relatively good swings the ability to get a higher trajectory with a softer landing, and more forgiveness than a long iron.

Many people make the mistake of believing that all hybrids are hook machines. Not so, but it takes a little investigation to determine the truth about a particular model.

frank... there are some of us on this board who agree with you 100%... i am a near scratch golfer but i just dont get some of the people like Omen adn HB, BJ, etc... they trash hybrids yet i dont think that they are serious... then there are the dillusional such as hacker who insists that his MX-20's arent hacker clubs yet they are full blown CB's more forgiving than the clubs he trashes... in short who cares what they think play the clubs that work for you it doesnt matter where it what you hit it with it only matters that you like it and that it works for you... i would play a less traditional hybrid it i could find one that fit my swing but for now i have to stick to driving irons (which i do consider hybrids)...

Frank, as I said I don't play a hybrid because like most lower handicap golfers, I hook the ball to much with them. I tried them but it didn't work out. I still have a Nickent 3DX DC.

You whiners with overquick flat swings and hyperactive right hands crack me up. :-)

I can't believe with all the pros out there who play every brand of hybrid in the book, that they're all hitting accidental right to lefters and cursing the club when they put it back in the bag.

Hybrids that draw the ball are on the market, just like neutral hybrids and hybrids that set up for fades. Gotta try 'em before you buy 'em, same as all the other clubs.

I used to carry a 3 handicap when I played a lot, and plan on getting it back. I probably won't do that carrying around the 1-iron I used in the previous century. I'm fat and 47.

And I hit it farther than ever, thanks to tech. But tech is tech, and if it works it works, and if hybrids work better than what I've got, I'll use them. Scorecards don't care what clubs you hit.

Now if golf changes its rules and makes everyone play naked, you can probably call me an ex-golfer...

but only because I'll be watching the LPGA every weekend instead of playing.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I concur. Except in the case of CP's mom. It's not difficult, it's impossible.[/QUOTE]

You beat me to it you little italian immigrant you.

[QUOTE=daveperk]You whiners with overquick flat swings and hyperactive right hands crack me up. :-)

I can't believe with all the pros out there who play every brand of hybrid in the book, that they're all hitting accidental right to lefters and cursing the club when they put it back in the bag.

Hybrids that draw the ball are on the market, just like neutral hybrids and hybrids that set up for fades. Gotta try 'em before you buy 'em, same as all the other clubs.

I used to carry a 3 handicap when I played a lot, and plan on getting it back. I probably won't do that carrying around the 1-iron I used in the previous century. I'm fat and 47.

And I hit it farther than ever, thanks to tech. But tech is tech, and if it works it works, and if hybrids work better than what I've got, I'll use them. Scorecards don't care what clubs you hit.

Now if golf changes its rules and makes everyone play naked, you can probably call me an ex-golfer...

but only because I'll be watching the LPGA every weekend instead of playing.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but rather than going to the trouble to understand a particular club's design regarding offset, weight distribution, and the interaction with the shaft, it is much easier to simply state categorically that hybrids are hook machines. It takes away a lot of the ambiguity when one can stereotype an entire class of clubs because they hook a Taylormade Rescue Mid with a floppy, OEM graphite shaft.

I don't mind if some people are ignorant. I do mind when the ignorant are also dogmatic.

It's one thing to say, "Hybrids are hook machines." It's another thing to say, "I couldn't hit (insert a particular club/shaft combination), and I don't know why." It's still another to say, "I couldn't hit (insert club/shaft combination), but when I used a lower torque, more tip stiff, higher kickpoint, heavier shaft combined with a square faced, neutrally weighted head I got great results."

What debate? Hybrids are easier to hit than long irons, FACT. What moron would say otherwise? What possible debate can there be, part from a pro who might want to control spin rate and therefore use a long iron.

the arguement isnt why not a hybrid but why only one... if you are going to replace your 3 iron with an easy to hit hybrid then why not the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, and all other wedges for that matter...

here is the weenie arse faggotry arguement.. i play a hybrid because it's easier to hit than a 3 iron..

well the same would be true for a hybrid 8 iron replacement... so why not get that too.. you will hit it closer and your misshits will be almost perfect? and the ball will go higher and land softer and i'm pretty sure it will take some of that pesky spin out of those short iron shots.

here.. this is for anyone who is using a hybrid in place of a long iron....

[ATTACH]1987[/ATTACH]

in fact phuck that why even hit any clubs yourself... you are obviously an inferior being and you still deserve to shoot 65 every time so here this is for you

[ATTACH]1988[/ATTACH]

all you got to do is affix wheels to it somehow and wheel it into position... a few adjustments and you should be hitting the ball to within 2 feet of every pin

......

that's my arguement against hybrids.... QUESTION, does anyone on here actually want to PLAY golf?

looking for the few that do..

why dont i play hickory shafted clubs... not readily available
why dont i play featheries.... not readilly available
why dont i play a 1 iron blade.... well i do actually... my 2 iron is the same loft as the 1 iron of old.
why dont i play mashies, spoons, brassies, or persimmon woods.. not readily available.

I am a purist in a sense. AGAIN I'm not totally against hybrids.. if you have one that is an alternate for a wood that's fine but an alternate for any iron where does it stop, next thing you know you have the alien wedge in your bag like fagman...er...i mean dorkman

....

we do hate on belly putters, two ball putters, a chipper isnt even a golf club, ball retreivers.


any more questions or does this actually suffice as a more valid reason than they are faggotry?

.............................
so basically lyle and dorkman or hypocrites: they say that the hybrid is there because it is easier to hit and more forgiving than the iron equivalant. Well then why dont they play a full set of hybrids... an 8ihybrid is clearly going to be more forgiving than the 8i...

what most of these people fail to realize is that we all see them for the hypocrites they really are.

Omen... MY POST ARE LIKE MY IRONS... UNFORGIVING AND PURE

so dorkman i await your explanation of how you arent a hypocrite for replacing one iron and not the rest. or maybe you will take the "high" road, with your myelinated brain, and not dignify this with a response.. you may cower

I am quite sure LyleGay will take your advice Omen, so I'm gonna help out as well. Here's the link Lyle, just click it and make your purchase. You'll be on your way to lower scores and less stingy hands. Just be sure to get a really big bag to fit them all into.

drivers.

[url]http://www.tgw.com/customer/category/product.jsp?SUBCATEGORY_ID=8659[/url]

Hell why carry a driver or fairway wood with this logic; you should use all irons. Or - Why not a full set of fairway woods for PW all the way to the 3w? Your logic is flawed but I have to admit at least you are consistent.

Your selling yourself short on not playing hickory shafted clubs. There are plenty of places to buy new and antique hickory shafted clubs.

[QUOTE=Omen2]the arguement isnt why not a hybrid but why only one... if you are going to replace your 3 iron with an easy to hit hybrid then why not the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, and all other wedges for that matter...

here is the weenie arse faggotry arguement.. i play a hybrid because it's easier to hit than a 3 iron..

well the same would be true for a hybrid 8 iron replacement... so why not get that too.. you will hit it closer and your misshits will be almost perfect? and the ball will go higher and land softer and i'm pretty sure it will take some of that pesky spin out of those short iron shots.

here.. this is for anyone who is using a hybrid in place of a long iron....

[ATTACH]1987[/ATTACH]

in fact phuck that why even hit any clubs yourself... you are obviously an inferior being and you still deserve to shoot 65 every time so here this is for you

[ATTACH]1988[/ATTACH]

all you got to do is affix wheels to it somehow and wheel it into position... a few adjustments and you should be hitting the ball to within 2 feet of every pin

......

that's my arguement against hybrids.... QUESTION, does anyone on here actually want to PLAY golf?

looking for the few that do..

why dont i play hickory shafted clubs... not readily available
why dont i play featheries.... not readilly available
why dont i play a 1 iron blade.... well i do actually... my 2 iron is the same loft as the 1 iron of old.
why dont i play mashies, spoons, brassies, or persimmon woods.. not readily available.

I am a purist in a sense. AGAIN I'm not totally against hybrids.. if you have one that is an alternate for a wood that's fine but an alternate for any iron where does it stop, next thing you know you have the alien wedge in your bag like fagman...er...i mean dorkman

....

we do hate on belly putters, two ball putters, a chipper isnt even a golf club, ball retreivers.


any more questions or does this actually suffice as a more valid reason than they are faggotry?

.............................
so basically lyle and dorkman or hypocrites: they say that the hybrid is there because it is easier to hit and more forgiving than the iron equivalant. Well then why dont they play a full set of hybrids... an 8ihybrid is clearly going to be more forgiving than the 8i...

what most of these people fail to realize is that we all see them for the hypocrites they really are.

Omen... MY POST ARE LIKE MY IRONS... UNFORGIVING AND PURE

so dorkman i await your explanation of how you arent a hypocrite for replacing one iron and not the rest. or maybe you will take the "high" road, with your myelinated brain, and not dignify this with a response.. you may cower[/QUOTE]
You don't really grasp the meaning of the word "hypocrite," do you. You have used that word repeatedly to describe me, but you clearly don't understand the nuance of its use. A hypocrite is someone who piously and publically stands for one set of beliefs, but in private carries out another course of action. I publically state that I choose the clubs that give me the best results, based on MY experience, NOT yours, or what Tiger Woods plays. I state that in my hands, and in the hands of MOST golfers, hybrids and some degree of cavity back irons will improve scores and increase enjoyment. This is something you claim not to be able to accept. Apparently, the entire world must bow its knee to your opinions or suffer the wrath of your flaming the board.

You also comically claim that you are simply flaming about your passion for blade irons and hatred for hybrids, but your actions speak otherwise. Does that make you a hypocrite?

Your stupidity and lack of logic are becoming legendary on this board. Years from now, people will look back to 2007 and 2008 as the time that Omen kept making a fool of himself on Golf Review. I guess a moth to a flame, or an angry bull repeatedly trying to gore the matador are the best analogies I can think of at the moment to describe your highly abnormal behavior. I guess everybody has to be famous for something.......

[QUOTE=dorkman53]

[B]You also comically claim that you are simply flaming about your passion for blade irons and hatred for hybrids, but your actions speak otherwise[/B]. Does that make you a hypocrite?
.....[/QUOTE]

could you explain how in any way my actions speak otherwise? are you saying that i dont have blades and i do play hybrids?

the only thing obvious is that your brain is not completely myelinated, which inhibits any rational arguement on your behalf.

I do pity you though... as an inferior ballstriker you must resort to gaybrids and shovels to which no dignity can be derived but alas all is not lost.... there's always the lpga.

my favorite thing about you and Lyle is that you carry on about saving a stroke or so around with your biotch sticks and yet that stroke saved never warrants anything...

you guys are just typical lazy pieces of shiot... you dont want to work hard for something you just want it handed to you.

why practice my long irons when i can get a gaybrid and get the same result... what do you have against PRACTICING?

all the successful people throughout history have TAKEN THE EASY WAY OUT, Right??

guess your choice of clubs reveals much more about your physche than you cared to aire... you will probably never amount to much more than you are now: let's face it you are a product of your gaybrid...

Look at BJ, highly educated, has a nice house, nice car, nice family... oh and a full set of irons with no gaybrids....

look at HB, really nice house, lovely wife and a great dog, great job, doing well early in life, and and a full set of irons with no gaybrids....


do you think that is a coincidence? me either.
these are clearly examples of people with a work ethic and they aren't looking for a handout, perhaps you could learn something from them. Probably not... you are a boy and you're amongst men... you are hopelessly outclassed, and definitely out manned.

what are you.. some liberal pu$$y who doesn't do anything but accuse the hard working people of lacking a fully myelinated ( i will always use this word in posts to you from now on) brain.

if you ever get a myelinated brain and grow a set call me and i will set you up with some man clubs.

Omen

i will leave you with a quote to ponder: by Horace Greeley

Fame is a vapor
popularity an accident
riches take wings
only one thing endures
and that is CHARACTER.

the choice to always take the easy way out reveals a lot about your character, and other things lacking.

i would consider you weighed, measured, and found wanting.

why do you play graphite in your driver omen why not steel??? why dont you play persimons too i mean both are readily available??? as for why dont i play a full set of hybrids they dont function quiet the same in the short irons you really cant work them and they arent as versitile...

i would not go so far as to say that persimon is readily available.

I play a grafalloy blue x flex, in my woods. that's as close to steel as you can be without being steel.

short irons you shouldn't need to work.. i mean if the hybrid is so gaytastic why cant you just take dead aim and hit it straight at the flag?

i'm sorry if i offended you by attacking your husband pingman. but you flammers have it coming... you and your ball retrievers. why dont you guys quit golf. it's clearly to manly a game for you. i hear there's a monday night ladies bowling league... you could probably hock your shovels for an 8 pound ball and a pair of pink shoes.

wouldnt that be nice... get your nails done, have a frap with girls and then go bowl... too cute.

why do lesser men always have to contaminate everything...

how did you become a mod, was it equal oppurtunity... had to have one female.

[QUOTE=Omen2]
I do pity you though... as an inferior ballstriker you must resort to gaybrids and shovels to which no dignity can be derived but alas all is not lost.... there's always the lpga.

-----
why practice my long irons when i can get a gaybrid and get the same result... what do you have against PRACTICING?
------

guess your choice of clubs reveals much more about your physche than you cared to aire... you will probably never amount to much more than you are now: let's face it you are a product of your gaybrid...

Look at BJ, highly educated, has a nice house, nice car, nice family... oh and a full set of irons with no gaybrids....

look at HB, really nice house, lovely wife and a great dog, great job, doing well early in life, and and a full set of irons with no gaybrids....



what are you.. some liberal pu$$y who doesn't do anything but accuse the hard working people of lacking a fully myelinated ( i will always use this word in posts to you from now on) brain.

if you ever get a myelinated brain and grow a set call me and i will set you up with some man clubs.


.[/QUOTE]


My, my, my.....we've struck a nerve here, haven't we.

I suspect that your obsessive-compulsive references to "gay" reveals deep seated ambivalence about your sexuality. Maybe you are gay and just don't know it yet......

-----
"all the successful people throughout history have TAKEN THE EASY WAY OUT, Right??"

If you decide to "take the easy way out" with a revolver, leap from a tall building, or with a drug overdose, I suspect that few people would shed a tear.........



You're so cute when you get angry.......

[QUOTE=Omen2]i would not go so far as to say that persimon is readily available.

I play a grafalloy blue x flex, in my woods. that's as close to steel as you can be without being steel.

short irons you shouldn't need to work.. i mean if the hybrid is so gaytastic why cant you just take dead aim and hit it straight at the flag?

.[/QUOTE]

Come to think of it, I have some great old persimmon in the garage.

I've got an original McGregor Tourney Custom 12 degree driver, grain dead on perfect.

Not sure what the shaft is other than 'steel', cuz there's no label. Then again, when that club was made, there was only stiff and not so stiff. This one feels sort of stiff.

43 inches long, too, way manly... almost as long as my current 3 wood.

I've got the Tony Pena black painted persimmon driver of the early 70's... a couple of other great old McGregors, one the classic six screw tall face, terrific persimmon all... Remember the name of the plastic insert, "cylolac"? I may have to take them out and swing them to see what happens...

but then I'd have to break out my museum grade wound rubber titleists that I bought at a garage sale. Cuz today's golf balls would probably shatter an old persimmon club.

And then I'd be hitting some great tee shots 245, like I used to, instead of 275, like I do now, at 47 and overweight and all.

God bless tech. God bless hybrids, one of which I used today to get cleanly out of a fairway bunker and 210 yards down the left side, which set me up to easily par a long par 5. Not sure a 3 iron would have had [B]quite[/B] the same result in that position.

God bless my hi tech Cleveland driver, all 45 1/2 inches of it, which knocked my first tee ball almost 300 and left me a 5-wood to the green for an easy two putt birdie. Well, not easy, cuz my second putt was five feet. :-)

Tech still hasn't solved my crap short game. :-)

GOd bless tech.

:D

[QUOTE=Omen2]look at HB, really nice house, lovely wife and a great dog, great job, doing well early in life, and and a full set of irons with no gaybrids....

[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the kind words. Do they still apply since I have a 19 degree hybrid? Correct about the full set of irons though. There is no better feeling than hitting a pure long iron. For me, irons are more accurate when struck properly. If I used a bunch of hybrids or super GI clubs, I could probably get away with some distance on poorly struck shots, but they're still going off-line. The last thing I want on off-line shots is distance.

So to summarize, hitting long irons successfully is a very fun aspect of golf for me. When I hit them well, they are more accurate than hybrids or fairway woods. I don't misshit them often or have issues getting them airborn. The reason I use a hybrid is because I can't hit fairway woods worth a damn off the turf, but love their height and distance off the tee. The hybrid, while not as long as a fairway wood or accurate as a long iron, is serviceable in both categories. It's my compromise.

[QUOTE=Omen2]i would not go so far as to say that persimon is readily available.

I play a grafalloy blue x flex, in my woods. that's as close to steel as you can be without being steel.

short irons you shouldn't need to work.. i mean if the hybrid is so gaytastic why cant you just take dead aim and hit it straight at the flag?

i'm sorry if i offended you by attacking your husband pingman. but you flammers have it coming... you and your ball retrievers. why dont you guys quit golf. it's clearly to manly a game for you. i hear there's a monday night ladies bowling league... you could probably hock your shovels for an 8 pound ball and a pair of pink shoes.

wouldnt that be nice... get your nails done, have a frap with girls and then go bowl... too cute.

why do lesser men always have to contaminate everything...

how did you become a mod, was it equal oppurtunity... had to have one female.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php/cPath/1?osCsid=49eae6adeeee5dafe393e584517123f9[/url]

you take far too much offense at what people say calm down a bit i said nothing that should have you ranting like this i mean seriously breath a bit...

[QUOTE=Omen2]the argument isn't why not a hybrid but why only one... if you are going to replace your 3 iron with an easy to hit hybrid then why not the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, and all other wedges for that matter...

here is the weenie arse faggotry argument.. i play a hybrid because it's easier to hit than a 3 iron..

well the same would be true for a hybrid 8 iron replacement... so why not get that too.. you will hit it closer and your misshits will be almost perfect? and the ball will go higher and land softer and i'm pretty sure it will take some of that pesky spin out of those short iron shots.

in fact phuck that why even hit any clubs yourself... you are obviously an inferior being and you still deserve to shoot 65 every time so here this is for you

all you got to do is affix wheels to it somehow and wheel it into position... a few adjustments and you should be hitting the ball to within 2 feet of every pin

......

that's my arguement against hybrids.... QUESTION, does anyone on here actually want to PLAY golf?

looking for the few that do..

why dont i play hickory shafted clubs... not readily available
why dont i play featheries.... not readilly available
why dont i play a 1 iron blade.... well i do actually... my 2 iron is the same loft as the 1 iron of old.
why dont i play mashies, spoons, brassies, or persimmon woods.. not readily available.

I am a purist in a sense. AGAIN I'm not totally against hybrids.. if you have one that is an alternate for a wood that's fine but an alternate for any iron where does it stop, next thing you know you have the alien wedge in your bag like fagman...er...i mean dorkman

....

we do hate on belly putters, two ball putters, a chipper isnt even a golf club, ball retreivers.


any more questions or does this actually suffice as a more valid reason than they are faggotry?

.............................
so basically lyle and dorkman or hypocrites: they say that the hybrid is there because it is easier to hit and more forgiving than the iron equivalant. Well then why dont they play a full set of hybrids... an 8ihybrid is clearly going to be more forgiving than the 8i...

what most of these people fail to realize is that we all see them for the hypocrites they really are.

Omen... MY POST ARE LIKE MY IRONS... UNFORGIVING AND PURE

so dorkman i await your explanation of how you arent a hypocrite for replacing one iron and not the rest. or maybe you will take the "high" road, with your myelinated brain, and not dignify this with a response.. you may cower[/QUOTE]


Okay fine. You've made your argument as to why YOU don't use hybrids, as have a few others. But why needlessly flame others who use USGA-sanctioned equipment that is found in 99.9% of every tour player's bag? I understand that many of them can be "hook machines", and I understand that you can't work a hybrid like you can a zero-iron or a negative 12 iron.

If you don't use the older, "classic" equipment because they're not readily available, I don't think you're looking too hard. There are all kinds of hickory shafted mashies and niblicks all over the internet for sale. All kinds of wooden woods, steel shafted drivers, etc. If you're interested, I have seven dozen "Searer Black Cat" balls circa I couldn't imagine when the hell they were made. Brand New. Never struck. Never out of the package, stored in an A/C environment since I was 5 (I am 32). Would you like to buy them? I didn't think so <sigh>.

I think that the real reason that guys don't like certain USGA-sanctioned equipment is that they have gotten beat out of skins, rounds, beers, sawbucks and the like by their "inferior, faggoty" buddy who rattled a couple of pins from 195 with their 3iH.

So be it.

Golf is the only sport I know of where the good players hate the bad players so much, an the vets hate the rookies. I can understand if you have a group or a guy slowing down the round --that gets to me too. But why the scratchers hate the 20+ handicappers like me - who twirl around the links in 2 hours by myself-- is a mystery that I can't solve. I hit a 3iH because I hit it better than I hit my standard 3i. Why do you so-called "experts" hate me for it?

Along with golf, I play racquetball and poker. As a poker player, I absolutely love new players. One, they make the game easier, and two, the poker boom has allowed me to find a game in many parts of the country. As a racquetball player (I'm probably a "B" player), I enjoy seeing new players out there, and I do my best to try to help them out, even if they're using bullet-proof goggles and leaf-rake size racquets with knee and elbow pads.

I'll agree with the board about chippers, ball retrievers, and funky 88-degree, v-shaped wedges. However, the difference with those things are that no tour players (on any tour) use that stuff. To me, long putters are weird looking, but I have nothing against them. Again, you see them on tour in the hands of people that could out-putt you in the parking lot at night. Using a belly putter to me is a shortcut to practice, but again, I don't have much of a problem with them.

What I think is less-desirable than a partner with a hybrid is a partner that shanks his 1-iron into the weeds and takes 20 minutes looking for his cut-up ball.

The same people that bang on hybrids are the same people that use Hybore XL drivers - the only club that I've ever seen that actually LOOKS like a shovel. I know because I have one.

What about low-friction tees or brush tees? All of you use ProV1's, and those effin' things have a printed-on alignment deal, which is the same as drawing a big line with a magic marker!!! Down with Pro V 1's!!!!

frank,

I would love to buy those things from you, but i wouldn't play them. where would i get a hickory shafted club reshafted when/if it broke?

i dont have a problem with hybrids. i have a problem with those not willing to exert the effort to learn how to hit a long iron..

how many tour pros have their long irons replaced with a hybrid? PGA... NOT CHAMPIONS

they are using them as a substitue for their 5 woods... which is fine.

i bash on people here because the majority of people toting hybrids carry 5 and cant hit them in the air either.

at least the guys that suck that have long irons are scared of their long irons and are more willing to layup with the 7 iron... the hybrid guys always grab that gay thing and say this is why i bought this club... then proceed to top it.

the few suffer because of the many... same thing with blade users... we get labeled as being egotistical just because the majority cant play them... are we egotistical or are we just good enough to use them... perhaps we are all victims of generalizations...

but... you cb/ hybrid guys started it.

Omen

I think some facts need to be established to stop this agrument form continuing to go around in circles. I have listed some irrefutable facts that we can all agree on and use as reference for future long irons vs hybrids argument.

1. Tiger, Nicklaus, Norman, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Seve, Hogan never won any majors with a hybrid in their bag.

2. Women on the LPGA tour often have fairway woods and hybrids right down the set, so their cast POS GI shovels start at about 6 iron.

3. The old farts on the cart tour love hybrids, and almost all have them. adams is also one of the most widely used brands on that tour.

4. Long irons can be worked right and left, and trjectory can be controlled.

5. Hybrids are designed to go only straight, but mostly go left if struck by a real golfer with real clubhead speed.

6. Hybrids are absolutely gay and are only seen in the bags of sissy fags who have trouble getting the ball in the air with their long irons.

7. Hybrids are aimed at hackers who have given up on ever becoming a real man.

I'm sure there are more facts about hybrids that can be added to this list, but I think this list is a good starting point and all future comments from hybrid flamers (DM) should have a comulsory reference to the list.

Hope this helps everyone out.

8 - about half of the players on the PGA tour now carry a hybrid, including the 2nd, 3rd and 4th ranked players in the world.

[QUOTE=LyleG]8 - about half of the players on the PGA tour now carry a hybrid, including the 2nd, 3rd and 4th ranked players in the world.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and Padraig Harrington was swinging my Wilson Dh6 19 deg hybrid all the way down the back nine at the Open Championship this year....

But I'm sure he's just an amateur straight ball hitter, or gay. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Omen2]


why dont i play hickory shafted clubs... not readily available
....


[/QUOTE]

Well, hell, I play hickory shafts. I managed to find them.

[QUOTE=daveperk]Yeah, and Padraig Harrington was swinging my Wilson Dh6 19 deg hybrid all the way down the back nine at the Open Championship this year....

But I'm sure he's just an amateur straight ball hitter, or gay. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Padraig who? He only got to hold up the jug because he was outchoked going down the stretch by an even bigger choker than him. He's a good example of a pro who needs some GI POS hydrid club to compensate for his obvious swing and mental flaws in his game.

[QUOTE=daveperk]Yeah, and Padraig Harrington was swinging my Wilson Dh6 19 deg hybrid all the way down the back nine at the Open Championship this year....

But I'm sure he's just an amateur straight ball hitter, or gay. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Followed Padraig at Riviera last year and Torrey Pines the year before. Incredible ball striker. Class guy. He could play anything. The fact that he plays a hybrid makes me wonder whether I should give one a try.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Followed Padraig at Riviera last year and Torrey Pines the year before. Incredible ball striker. Class guy. He could play anything. The fact that he plays a hybrid makes me wonder whether I should give one a try.[/QUOTE]

Since you're obviously gay, you should.

Go ride your bike on the freeway.

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out on this thread yet but [U][I][B]HYBRIDS ARE GAY[/B][/I][/U], just FYI.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]I don't know if anyone has pointed this out on this thread yet but [U][I][B]HYBRIDS ARE GAY[/B][/I][/U], just FYI.[/QUOTE]

I've banged women on three separate continents. This doesn't concern me.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I've banged women on three separate continents. This doesn't concern me.[/QUOTE]

So am I to infer on the other two continents you banged men?

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I've banged women on three separate continents. This doesn't concern me.[/QUOTE]

So that's three continents where you can borrow some hybrids if you want a game.

[QUOTE=Not a German]So am I to infer on the other two continents you banged men?[/QUOTE]

You're still here. I thought I told you to go ride your bike on the freeway.

p.s. sorry BJ, this time my alterego snuck in there before you.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]So that's three continents where you can borrow some hybrids if you want a game.[/QUOTE]


For a while there, I thought you'd resorted to blocking my posts.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]I've banged women on three separate continents. This doesn't concern me.[/QUOTE

Hah, SIX COUNTRIES for me, but only two continents.

I guess I AM gay.... damn!

Wait. Eight countries. But if they're EU members, do they count as separate countries anymore?

At any rate, I'm still pretty sure I'm not gay, in spite of the hybrid.

Do limp wrists explain a natural fade shotshape?

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]You're still here. I thought I told you to go ride your bike on the freeway.

p.s. sorry BJ, this time my alterego snuck in there before you.[/QUOTE]

You're forgiven. Now go smuggle me some nice dress shoes.

[QUOTE=daveperk]
Hah, SIX COUNTRIES for me, but only two continents.

I guess I AM gay.... damn!

Wait. Eight countries. But if they're EU members, do they count as separate countries anymore?

[/QUOTE]

Must be the deep announcer voice thing. Women love that, don't they? You're more than safe with eight.

That said, never think the EU is one country. Yes, there is one custom line for us, yes some of the countries use the euro, but that's where the similarity ends. Italy could not be more different than France or Germany. Have you ever had Liebfraumilch? Yecchh!!! What are they thinking? They are supposed to be a logical people (if not colorless, humorless and tasteless). And France? What more do I need to say. The UK is cool, even if they don't like us (jealous of good food, wine (they like claret - Yecchh!!!) and ability to poke fun at ourselves, style, etc, etc). I hope I have cleared this up. EU one country....Geez.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]You're forgiven. Now go smuggle me some nice dress shoes.[/QUOTE]

I'll need a size. I'll smuggle anything into which I can fit Cubanos. Hah!!! Homeland Security -- right!!! I could smuggle anything I like into this country.

Can they trace me through this forum?

[QUOTE=daveperk]Now if golf changes its rules and makes everyone play naked, you can probably call me an ex-golfer...

but only because I'll be watching the LPGA every weekend instead of playing.[/QUOTE]

especially if Pat Hurst & Laura Davies are in the field huh.

[QUOTE=frankdmann]So other than the usual "hybrids are faggoty" argument, I haven't seen much here. What about them irks so many? Sounds just like a style thing more than anything else. Do all of you guys oppose long pants and ball caps out there too?[/QUOTE]

We wouldn't expect a guy with a big bertha lob wedge to understand, but it looks like you did all the work for us anyway.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I think some facts need to be established to stop this agrument form continuing to go around in circles. I have listed some irrefutable facts that we can all agree on and use as reference for future long irons vs hybrids argument.

1. Tiger, Nicklaus, Norman, Palmer, Trevino, Watson, Seve, Hogan never won any majors with a hybrid in their bag.

2. Women on the LPGA tour often have fairway woods and hybrids right down the set, so their cast POS GI shovels start at about 6 iron.

3. The old farts on the cart tour love hybrids, and almost all have them. adams is also one of the most widely used brands on that tour.

4. Long irons can be worked right and left, and trjectory can be controlled.

5. Hybrids are designed to go only straight, but mostly go left if struck by a real golfer with real clubhead speed.

6. Hybrids are absolutely gay and are only seen in the bags of sissy fags who have trouble getting the ball in the air with their long irons.

7. Hybrids are aimed at hackers who have given up on ever becoming a real man.

I'm sure there are more facts about hybrids that can be added to this list, but I think this list is a good starting point and all future comments from hybrid flamers (DM) should have a comulsory reference to the list.

Hope this helps everyone out.[/QUOTE]

Okay, to clear up a couple of these "facts":

1. I'm not sure when hybrids were invented, but an off-the-cuff guess would be that only one of these guys actually played in a major during the time that hybrids were in use by anyone on tour.

2. Chicks dig the long ball

3. Those old farts on tour could probably out-play you with YOUR current setup.

4. Very true. I'm sure that other than trajectory, hybrids can be worked to a point, though not to the extent of a traditional iron.

5. ...making them easier to hit. As does your graphite infested sledgehammer driver,and just like your super square grooved flex steel irons help your approach and your "built-in alignment system" ProV1's help you to aim your putt.

6. Well there's an argument we've heard before.

7. See number six i guess.

One other piece of amateur equipment that hasn't gotten the disdain that the hybrid has gotten: The electronic (or otherwise) rangefinder/GPS. Why don't you all oppose those? Even though I have both (a hybrid and a GPS), I would think that if you thought 1 was for a hacker, you would think that the other was for a hacker too.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]
7. Hybrids are aimed at hackers who have given up on ever becoming a real man.
[/QUOTE]

As are your MX-20's.

Stop trying to deny it. They're only players clubs with minimal offset in YOUR little fantasy world.

To everyone else they are GI shovels that are virtually hybrids.

[QUOTE=frankdmann]I'm not sure why the "purists" and/or the low handicappers take such offense to hybrids, and was hoping someone could explain it in a more in-depth manner than "you're a pu$$y".

[/QUOTE]

On the contrary Frank. You understand it fully!

There is no further need for discussion. You've summed it up in one simple phrase.

"You're a gay pu$$y!" is ALL the logic that the hybrid haters can muster and bring to the debate.

That's about as in depth as it's going to get.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]I don't know if anyone has pointed this out on this thread yet but [U][I][B]HYBRIDS ARE GAY[/B][/I][/U], just FYI.[/QUOTE]

But as I've pointed out on other threads not as GAY as photographing your clubs!

[QUOTE=Omen2]the arguement isnt why not a hybrid but why only one... if you are going to replace your 3 iron with an easy to hit hybrid then why not the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, and all other wedges for that matter...

here is the weenie arse faggotry arguement.. i play a hybrid because it's easier to hit than a 3 iron..

well the same would be true for a hybrid 8 iron replacement... so why not get that too.. you will hit it closer and your misshits will be almost perfect? and the ball will go higher and land softer and i'm pretty sure it will take some of that pesky spin out of those short iron shots.

here.. this is for anyone who is using a hybrid in place of a long iron....

[ATTACH]1987[/ATTACH]



in fact phuck that why even hit any clubs yourself... you are obviously an inferior being and you still deserve to shoot 65 every time so here this is for you

[ATTACH]1988[/ATTACH]

all you got to do is affix wheels to it somehow and wheel it into position... a few adjustments and you should be hitting the ball to within 2 feet of every pin

......

that's my arguement against hybrids.... QUESTION, does anyone on here actually want to PLAY golf?

looking for the few that do..

why dont i play hickory shafted clubs... not readily available
why dont i play featheries.... not readilly available
why dont i play a 1 iron blade.... well i do actually... my 2 iron is the same loft as the 1 iron of old.
why dont i play mashies, spoons, brassies, or persimmon woods.. not readily available.

I am a purist in a sense. AGAIN I'm not totally against hybrids.. if you have one that is an alternate for a wood that's fine but an alternate for any iron where does it stop, next thing you know you have the alien wedge in your bag like fagman...er...i mean dorkman

....

we do hate on belly putters, two ball putters, a chipper isnt even a golf club, ball retreivers.


any more questions or does this actually suffice as a more valid reason than they are faggotry?

.............................
so basically lyle and dorkman or hypocrites: they say that the hybrid is there because it is easier to hit and more forgiving than the iron equivalant. Well then why dont they play a full set of hybrids... an 8ihybrid is clearly going to be more forgiving than the 8i...

what most of these people fail to realize is that we all see them for the hypocrites they really are.

Omen... MY POST ARE LIKE MY IRONS... UNFORGIVING AND PURE

so dorkman i await your explanation of how you arent a hypocrite for replacing one iron and not the rest. or maybe you will take the "high" road, with your myelinated brain, and not dignify this with a response.. you may cower[/QUOTE]

Wow some people need the forgiveness of CB's and hybrids because their busy lives don't allow them to practice as much as they'd like to.

But looking at this thread I can see Omen has all the time in the world. No wonder he plays blades. Even after all that prctice he's still got WAY too much time on his hands!

My my Kiwi you have been a busy boy. You have tried to flame the 3 people you thought would bite the easiest. I'm starting to wonder if you are really JS using another alias. JS has priors for that. The other reason you might be JS is the transpenency of your pathetic attempts to flame. You need to learn subtlety to get a real flame war going.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]But as I've pointed out on other threads not as GAY as photographing your clubs![/QUOTE]

Make sure you never get an account on GolfWRX.com.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Must be the deep announcer voice thing. Women love that, don't they? You're more than safe with eight.

That said, never think the EU is one country. Yes, there is one custom line for us, yes some of the countries use the euro, but that's where the similarity ends. Italy could not be more different than France or Germany. Have you ever had Liebfraumilch? Yecchh!!! What are they thinking? They are supposed to be a logical people (if not colorless, humorless and tasteless). And France? What more do I need to say. The UK is cool, even if they don't like us (jealous of good food, wine (they like claret - Yecchh!!!) and ability to poke fun at ourselves, style, etc, etc). I hope I have cleared this up. EU one country....Geez.[/QUOTE]

What he really meant to say:

Essere la cosa di voce di annunciatore profonda. Non le donne ciò amano, fa loro? Lei è più di la cassaforte con otto.

Ciò ha detto, non pensa mai che l'UE sia un paese. Sì, c'è una linea di usanza per noi, sì alcuni dei paesi usano l'euro, ma ciò è dove la somiglianza finisce. L'Italia non potrebbe essere più diverso di Francia o Germania. Lei mai ha avuto Liebfraumilch? Yecchh!!! Che pensano? Sono supposti per essere une persone logiche (se no incolore, serio ed insipido). E la Francia? Che più fa devo dire. Il Regno Unito è fresco, anche se non ci amano (geloso di cibo buono, il vino (amano il claretto - Yecchh! !!) e la capacità di colpire il divertimento a ci, lo stile, ecc., ecc.). Spero che ho chiarito questo su. L'UE un paese. ...Geez.

Lei ha trattenuto, No? La sintassi è un piccolo come un libro di testo, ma è piacevole per ricevere ed il messaggio italiano. Ringraziarla molto. Spero che lei ha il sesso oggi!

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]My my Kiwi you have been a busy boy. You have tried to flame the 3 people you thought would bite the easiest. I'm starting to wonder if you are really JS using another alias. JS has priors for that. The other reason you might be JS is the transpenency of your pathetic attempts to flame. You need to learn subtlety to get a real flame war going.[/QUOTE]


That's not me and it's pretty esasy to tell, you stupid ****.

Speach patters are drastically different. Plus I dont have timeto do that multiple alias's thing anymore.

The one and only,




JS

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]My my Kiwi you have been a busy boy. You have tried to flame the 3 people you thought would bite the easiest. I'm starting to wonder if you are really JS using another alias. JS has priors for that. The other reason you might be JS is the transpenency of your pathetic attempts to flame. You need to learn subtlety to get a real flame war going.[/QUOTE]


That's not me and it's pretty esasy to tell, you stupid ****.

Speach patters are drastically different. Plus I dont have timeto do that multiple alias's thing anymore.

The one and only,




JS

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]What he really meant to say:

Essere la cosa di voce di annunciatore profonda. Non le donne ciò amano, fa loro? Lei è più di la cassaforte con otto.

Ciò ha detto, non pensa mai che l'UE sia un paese. Sì, c'è una linea di usanza per noi, sì alcuni dei paesi usano l'euro, ma ciò è dove la somiglianza finisce. L'Italia non potrebbe essere più diverso di Francia o Germania. Lei mai ha avuto Liebfraumilch? Yecchh!!! Che pensano? Sono supposti per essere une persone logiche (se no incolore, serio ed insipido). E la Francia? Che più fa devo dire. Il Regno Unito è fresco, anche se non ci amano (geloso di cibo buono, il vino (amano il claretto - Yecchh! !!) e la capacità di colpire il divertimento a ci, lo stile, ecc., ecc.). Spero che ho chiarito questo su. L'UE un paese. ...Geez.[/QUOTE]

Je n'ai jamais cru vraiment que l'Europe est un pays seulement, mais peutetre c'etait l'heure pour mettre le question d'un citoyen de l'Europe. Ca fait l'explication de la question.

Quand j'ai habiter au Belgique, je souviens bien que tout les pays Europeene sont different, certainement! Les goutes differentes, les vetements differents, et certainement les bieres differents!

(I never really though that Europe was one country, but perhaps it was time to put the question to a real European, that explains the question.

When I lived in Belgium, I remember wel that all the European countries were different.. different tastes, different clothes, and certainly different beers!)

I always hate that these English American keyboards can't make the accent marks without all sorts of adjustments... but I also hated to learn the AZERTY keyboards over there... really screwed up my typing. :-)

Belguim is cool, in a psycho, grey and dingy kind of way. They should teach the French how to speak French. They should also teach the French how to cook without 10 kilos of sauce. When Muhammed takes over Allemagne, the French will retreat into Belguim. Once there, they will try to correct the locals' pronunciation and be slaughtered.

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]Belguim is cool, in a psycho, grey and dingy kind of way. They should teach the French how to speak French. They should also teach the French how to cook without 10 kilos of sauce. When Muhammed takes over Allemagne, the French will retreat into Belguim. Once there, they will try to correct the locals' pronunciation and be slaughtered.[/QUOTE]

Hah. I remember well being in Paris and asking a lady where to find 'le toilette" only to be told with a sniff that it's "LA toilette"...

well, not in Brussels honey... :-)

There's also a funny numbers thing... in Belgium, you say ninety as "nonante"... but in France they say four twenties and ten... "quatre vingt dix"...

IT's full of funny stuff like that...

kinda like the Canadians say "marde!" when they hit the ball badly, and the French say "Merde!"

[QUOTE=daveperk]Hah. I remember well being in Paris and asking a lady where to find 'le toilette" only to be told with a sniff that it's "LA toilette"...

well, not in Brussels honey... :-)

There's also a funny numbers thing... in Belgium, you say ninety as "nonante"... but in France they say four twenties and ten... "quatre vingt dix"...

IT's full of funny stuff like that...

kinda like the Canadians say "marde!" when they hit the ball badly, and the French say "Merde!"[/QUOTE]

When discrepencies like these arise, the general rule of thumb is: the French version is incorrect.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]My my Kiwi you have been a busy boy. You have tried to flame the 3 people you thought would bite the easiest. I'm starting to wonder if you are really JS using another alias. JS has priors for that. The other reason you might be JS is the transpenency of your pathetic attempts to flame. You need to learn subtlety to get a real flame war going.[/QUOTE]

Hacker there's no attempt at flaming here. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is for you to constantly bag hybrids and GI CB's when you play with GI CB's.

[QUOTE=Omen2]the arguement isnt why not a hybrid but why only one... if you are going to replace your 3 iron with an easy to hit hybrid then why not the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, pw, and all other wedges for that matter...

here is the weenie arse faggotry arguement.. i play a hybrid because it's easier to hit than a 3 iron..

well the same would be true for a hybrid 8 iron replacement... so why not get that too.. you will hit it closer and your misshits will be almost perfect? and the ball will go higher and land softer and i'm pretty sure it will take some of that pesky spin out of those short iron shots.

[/QUOTE]

Well Omen it's pretty simple really. Most average golfers find a 3 iron one of the more difficult irons to hit and most average golfers would find an equivalent 20-22* hybrid much easier to hit.

Most average golfers find an 8 iron quite easy and enjoyable to hit and would get no benefit whatsoever from an 8 iron hybrid.

2-3 irons have always been the most difficult clubs to hit. That is why golfers carried easier to hit 5 & 7 woods to replace them prior to the advent of hybrids.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Well Omen it's pretty simple really. Most average golfers find a 3 iron one of the more difficult irons to hit and most average golfers would find an equivalent 20-22* hybrid much easier to hit.

Most average golfers find an 8 iron quite easy and enjoyable to hit and would get no benefit whatsoever from an 8 iron hybrid.

2-3 irons have always been the most difficult clubs to hit. That is why golfers carried easier to hit 5 & 7 woods to replace them prior to the advent of hybrids.[/QUOTE]

Not sure how you have actually answered Omens question here Kiwi. Omens logic was quite esy to follow but you have failed to get what he was saying. Even if you find the 8 iron easy to hit, why not go to an 8 hybrid which, by your own admission, should be easier to hit than the iron equivalent as hybrids are apparently easier to hit than irons. If all you worry about is finding an easier way to hit the ball, surely you would go for hybrids right through the set. Surely an 8 hybrid would even more 'fun' to hit for a person who will use any technology available to cover flaws in their game.

But hey swings them like they are blades, from the visualization all the way to the classic reverse "C" finish. A pure blade swing, just with a CB. But just to keep the game fair when he toes one a bit he kicks his ball back 10 or so yards to simulate hitting a blade.

[QUOTE=poe4soul]But hey swings them like they are blades, from the visualization all the way to the classic reverse "C" finish. A pure blade swing, just with a CB. But just to keep the game fair when he toes one a bit he kicks his ball back 10 or so yards to simulate hitting a blade.[/QUOTE]

so you really mean after every iron shot he kicks his ball back 10 or so yards to simulate hitting a blade...

[QUOTE=pingman360]so you really mean after every iron shot he kicks his ball back 10 or so yards to simulate hitting a blade...[/QUOTE]

You guys are almost right, but not quite. Here's what he does. He'll tee off using the driver of his choice, but which he doesn't have, so he uses an imaginary one. He'll use an imaginary golf ball as well. After teeing off, he'll decide where his imaginary ball ended up, and then hit his approach with an imaginary blade (this part you've already heard about). If his imaginary ball ended up on the green, he'll decide where (after fixing his imaginary ball mark). If he decides it went in a bunker, he'll complain about the unraked footprints and then blast out, taking no sand (what do you expect - his imaginary club can't move sand). So he doesn't actually use real equipment, in fact, often, he wears imaginary clothing.

When he holes his last imaginary putt, if he's had a bad putting day, sometimes he'll throw his imaginary putter in the lake. If he's been in the imaginary zone, he'll hold up an imaginary trophy high over his head and make a victory speech.

If you've never seen Hacker make a naked victory speech holding up an imaginary trophy in front of a gathering crowd on the 18th green, well, it's truly amazing.

Sometimes he'll be led away before he's able to finish his speech.

Since when is hitting a draw a bad shot?

I must have missed that memo

[QUOTE=lorenzoinoc]You guys are almost right, but not quite. Here's what he does. He'll tee off using the driver of his choice, but which he doesn't have, so he uses an imaginary one. He'll use an imaginary golf ball as well. After teeing off, he'll decide where his imaginary ball ended up, and then hit his approach with an imaginary blade (this part you've already heard about). If his imaginary ball ended up on the green, he'll decide where (after fixing his imaginary ball mark). If he decides it went in a bunker, he'll complain about the unraked footprints and then blast out, taking no sand (what do you expect - his imaginary club can't move sand). So he doesn't actually use real equipment, in fact, often, he wears imaginary clothing.

When he holes his last imaginary putt, if he's had a bad putting day, sometimes he'll throw his imaginary putter in the lake. If he's been in the imaginary zone, he'll hold up an imaginary trophy high over his head and make a victory speech.

If you've never seen Hacker make a naked victory speech holding up an imaginary trophy in front of a gathering crowd on the 18th green, well, it's truly amazing.

Sometimes he'll be led away before he's able to finish his speech.[/QUOTE]

Not sure whether to be flatterd or a little concerned by the amount of effort you've been putting in lately to flame me Lorenzo. It seems you turn every thread into a chance to get at me. You are coming across as being almost obsessive. I must say you are a little unusual in being an Italian that isn't so narcisistic as to not notice there are other people in the world.

But I'll take it as a complient and a sign that my appraisals of Italians is getting to your fragile ego. Every time I watch Eddie Murhpy's Raw and see his impression of the 5 foot 2 Italian at the movies after watching Rocky I will think of you. Now why don't you take Ed's advice and go get into your IROC Z28 and get the fuk outta here.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker] Now why don't you take Ed's advice and go get into your IROC Z28 and get the fuk outta here.[/QUOTE]

After he eats a pizza.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Not sure whether to be flatterd or a little concerned by the amount of effort you've been putting in lately to flame me Lorenzo. It seems you turn every thread into a chance to get at me. You are coming across as being almost obsessive. I must say you are a little unusual in being an Italian that isn't so narcisistic as to not notice there are other people in the world.

But I'll take it as a complient and a sign that my appraisals of Italians is getting to your fragile ego. Every time I watch Eddie Murhpy's Raw and see his impression of the 5 foot 2 Italian at the movies after watching Rocky I will think of you. Now why don't you take Ed's advice and go get into your IROC Z28 and get the fuk outta here.[/QUOTE]


It's no effort. And it's not you, it's the checks you write that you can't cash.

Lorenzo
6'2"
205 lbs.
Never drove an American car

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Not sure how you have actually answered Omens question here Kiwi. Omens logic was quite esy to follow but you have failed to get what he was saying. Even if you find the 8 iron easy to hit, why not go to an 8 hybrid which, by your own admission, should be easier to hit than the iron equivalent as hybrids are apparently easier to hit than irons. If all you worry about is finding an easier way to hit the ball, surely you would go for hybrids right through the set. Surely an 8 hybrid would even more 'fun' to hit for a person who will use any technology available to cover flaws in their game.[/QUOTE]

Hacker

What part of "no benefit whatsoever from an 8 iron hybrid" don't you understand?

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Hacker

What part of "no benefit whatsoever from an 8 iron hybrid" don't you understand?[/QUOTE]

This statement seems to contradict the logic of your whole argument. You and the rest of the hybrid hugging sissies here have harped on adnauseum about hybrids being easier to hit than irons, now you say a hybrid provides no benefit whatsoever. Surely by your logic an 8 iron hybrid would be easier to hit, and go straighter, and higher etc etc.

Could the real reason for your rejection of the 8 hybrid be that the increased forgiveness etc wouldn't make up for the loss of playability, and that you would get better 'overall results' from the regular (allbeit cast SGI CB POS) 8 iron. By taking this a step further it would be safe to say that by applying this logic to the whole debate would mean that ALL hybrids are less workable than irons, including the so called 'hard to hit long irons'.

So what you are really saying is that long irons potentially produce better results than their hybrid equivalent, if in the hands of a player good enough to get the most out of them. But if you don't have the game to actually hit long irons, hybrids will produce better results. So in actual fact you agree with me, Omen, BJ and so on that long irons are for real men who aspire to uphold the traditions of the game, and hybrids are for gay hacks who don't have the nuts to man up with a real club.

Glad we finally sorted this out and are in agreement on this touchy subject, thanks for making your opinions clear.

I personally dont see why hybrids are so good. Everyone raves about them. I got one with a set I purchased a while ago and I was not impressed and I am on a search for a 3 iron. For me the only good part about my game is my long irons. When it comes to hitting my 3 hybrid, there is no way for me to hit it straight. Sure it might be the club or just me, but personally I prefer irons over hybrids. I find them hard to swing and hit straight and long. Am I the only one here that prefers the traditional irons over hybrids?

[QUOTE=Canucksfan]Am I the only one here that prefers the traditional irons over hybrids?[/QUOTE]

i really hope this is sarcasm...

Surely you can't be this obtuse.

Give it up; we're all tired to this real men crap. Play your game, post your score. If you don't like hybrids don't use them. If you don't think they should be allowed petition the USGA or what ever organization you play under to ban them.

You three are the only ad nauseum here. Questions are asked and people respond but you three beat this issue like a dead mule. Put your $0.02 in but to say the same thing over and over and over is just boring.

If you want to preserve the tradition of the game throw out your square grooved, spin milled irons, metal woods, oversize drivers, and juiced balls and go join a hickory stick club. It doesn't make any since in all of the technology improvements over the past 20 years to single out the hybrid as the sole thing that is destroying the tradition of golf.

Don't get me wrong NaH, Omen, and BJ. I enjoy most of your posts and the place wouldn't be the same without you guys.

[QUOTE=Canucksfan]I personally dont see why hybrids are so good. Everyone raves about them. I got one with a set I purchased a while ago and I was not impressed and I am on a search for a 3 iron. For me the only good part about my game is my long irons. When it comes to hitting my 3 hybrid, there is no way for me to hit it straight. Sure it might be the club or just me, but personally I prefer irons over hybrids. I find them hard to swing and hit straight and long. Am I the only one here that prefers the traditional irons over hybrids?[/QUOTE]

I am about to have a serious moment here, in spite of whether this was a post intended to start more flamng or not.

I too, can honestly say I prefer hybrids to long irons. If I am standing on a shortish par 4 and absolutely HAVE to hit the fairway, I would be much more confident with a 3 iron in my hand than a hybrid. I know they are supposed to go straight, but every hybrid I've ever seen sits with a closed clubface and seems to have a draw bias. The times I have hit other peoples hybrids I have invariably had trouble keeping it from going left. Long irons go plenty far enough for me, and can be worked enough to be used strategically on short holes to keep the trouble completely out of play. Having to aim straight down the middle whilst having to worry about a big pull left is not what I would call strategic golf. Also, as I've previously said I have found a 5 wood to be much more versatile for long approaches into greens. 5 woods are workable, cut through rough better, and get a much higher and softer landing shots IMO.

These two things are the real reasons I would never use a hybrid.

But I also agree with everything Omen and BJ say about the gayness of hybrids too.

[QUOTE=frankdmann]One other piece of amateur equipment that hasn't gotten the disdain that the hybrid has gotten: The electronic (or otherwise) rangefinder/GPS. Why don't you all oppose those? Even though I have both (a hybrid and a GPS), I would think that if you thought 1 was for a hacker, you would think that the other was for a hacker too.[/QUOTE]
Quite to the contrary, GPS/rangefinders are perfectly okay and are a good tool for good players. It's been within the rules for years to be able to ascertain distances on the course. That's what good caddies are for, giving exact distances. GPS is just another way of doing it, which also speeds up play by avoiding pacing out to designated markers etc.

However, I don't see the need for GPS if you have a hybrid and are a hacker. It's not like you will be able to finesse a hybrid different distances depending on your vicinity to the green. You won't hear a pro (a gay one that uses hybrids that is) saying "195 to a back left pin. I'll just play a knock down draw to the front edge of the green and let it release all the way to the pin, hand me the hybrid." now will you? Why bother knowing the distances when your only option is to just line up the hybrid straight at the green and whale away hoping that it just happens to be the exact distance the hybrid always goes (about 150 on the fly for most who use them I'd imagine).

Yah your right NaH. The Pro would be asking what is the distance to the center of the green. 195 is a 5 iron maybe a 4 iron. 230 to 250 would be more appropriate for a hybrid. Your analogy is so far off.

You really should be consistent. To uphold tradition we shouldn't have any distances on the course other than the tee to green distance. You should be able to judge the distance, slope, weather, etc.

[QUOTE=bjdrivers]We wouldn't expect a guy with a big bertha lob wedge to understand, but it looks like you did all the work for us anyway.[/QUOTE]

Man I wish I had one of those when I was a youngster.

I used to work in a takeaway shop and a big bertha lob wedge would have come in handy for scraping all the sh!t from the bottom of the deep fryer.

[QUOTE=poe4soul]Yah your right NaH. The Pro would be asking what is the distance to the center of the green. 195 is a 5 iron maybe a 4 iron. 230 to 250 would be more appropriate for a hybrid. Your analogy is so far off.

You really should be consistent. To uphold tradition we shouldn't have any distances on the course other than the tee to green distance. You should be able to judge the distance, slope, weather, etc.[/QUOTE]
You obviously missed the point, so...... Once more for the dummies.

I know how far pros hit hybrids, I was emphasising the fact that they couldn't play a finesse shot for something less than a full swing distance.

I did mis your point but you are so far off on this. I play finesse shots all the time with my hybrid and can play them just as well with my 3 iron or with the hybrid. But you also would not hear a pro playing a knockdown 5 wood 195 would you? But I bet I could hit that shot better with a hybrid than a 5 wood.

To be consistent shouldn't you have said "hit a low cut to a back right pin"? Since you have believe the hybrid is only good for hitting draws (hooks).

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]You obviously missed the point, so...... Once more for the dummies.

I know how far pros hit hybrids, I was emphasising the fact that they couldn't play a finesse shot for something less than a full swing distance.[/QUOTE]
If you think a PGA pro doesn't know how to play a cut or a draw with a hybrid, you underestimate their skill level, projecting your own skill level on them. I've seen some pretty clever and creative shots made by PGA pros with hybrids and fairway woods, as well as irons, of course.

Because you don't know how to make a certain shot doesn't necessarily mean that a PGA pro can't make that shot......

[QUOTE=dorkman53]
Because you don't know how to make a certain shot doesn't necessarily mean that a PGA pro can't make that shot......[/QUOTE]
Can't argue with that. I watch them get it up and down from everywhere every week, and damned if I have the faintest idea how to do it myself. But I still think they wouldn't try a hybrid for a finesse shot, with the possible exception of texas wedging it from just off the green.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]Can't argue with that. I watch them get it up and down from everywhere every week, and damned if I have the faintest idea how to do it myself. But I still think they wouldn't try a hybrid for a finesse shot, with the possible exception of texas wedging it from just off the green.[/QUOTE]
It's not a hybrid, obviously, but several years ago I saw David Toms chip in for an eagle from just off the green with a fairway wood at a tournament I attended. Those guys are absolutely incredible; they are orders of magnitude better than even the best of us, as mere mortal amateurs.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]I have found a 5 wood to be much more versatile for long approaches into greens. 5 woods are workable, cut through rough better, and get a much higher and softer landing shots IMO.

These two things are the real reasons I would never use a hybrid.

But I also agree with everything Omen and BJ say about the gayness of hybrids too.[/QUOTE]

Well, then how about being bisexual, carrying a five wood AND a hybrid?

I get the benefits of BOTH... :-)))

13 deg 3 wood 230-250 yds

17 deg 5 wood 220-230

19 deg hybrid 200-215

and down to the 4 iron...... yada yada....

My five wood, though, still has the old S300 DG shaft... can't believe I play a steel shafted fairway wood... trapped in the 1980's... but the darn thing is easy to hit and goes straight.

[QUOTE=Not a hacker]This statement seems to contradict the logic of your whole argument. You and the rest of the hybrid hugging sissies here have harped on adnauseum about hybrids being easier to hit than irons, now you say a hybrid provides no benefit whatsoever. Surely by your logic an 8 iron hybrid would be easier to hit, and go straighter, and higher etc etc.

Could the real reason for your rejection of the 8 hybrid be that the increased forgiveness etc wouldn't make up for the loss of playability, and that you would get better 'overall results' from the regular (allbeit cast SGI CB POS) 8 iron. By taking this a step further it would be safe to say that by applying this logic to the whole debate would mean that ALL hybrids are less workable than irons, including the so called 'hard to hit long irons'.

So what you are really saying is that long irons potentially produce better results than their hybrid equivalent, if in the hands of a player good enough to get the most out of them. But if you don't have the game to actually hit long irons, hybrids will produce better results. So in actual fact you agree with me, Omen, BJ and so on that long irons are for real men who aspire to uphold the traditions of the game, and hybrids are for gay hacks who don't have the nuts to man up with a real club.

Glad we finally sorted this out and are in agreement on this touchy subject, thanks for making your opinions clear.[/QUOTE]

Y-A-W-N - whatever...???

Would someone please help me out here. It appears that Hacker doesn't know the difference between a 3 iron and an 8 iron.

[QUOTE=poe4soul]Surely you can't be this obtuse.

Give it up; we're all tired to this real men crap. Play your game, post your score. If you don't like hybrids don't use them. If you don't think they should be allowed petition the USGA or what ever organization you play under to ban them.

You three are the only ad nauseum here. Questions are asked and people respond but you three beat this issue like a dead mule. Put your $0.02 in but to say the same thing over and over and over is just boring.

If you want to preserve the tradition of the game throw out your square grooved, spin milled irons, metal woods, oversize drivers, and juiced balls and go join a hickory stick club. It doesn't make any since in all of the technology improvements over the past 20 years to single out the hybrid as the sole thing that is destroying the tradition of golf.

Don't get me wrong NaH, Omen, and BJ. I enjoy most of your posts and the place wouldn't be the same without you guys.[/QUOTE]

Well said Poe pretty much sums it up. Nice post.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Player]Y-A-W-N - whatever...???

Would someone please help me out here. It appears that Hacker doesn't know the difference between a 3 iron and an 8 iron.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Kiwi, I thought it might have been too complicated for you. I will try to keep things more simple from now on.

The only help that I can offer is this:

I never, or at least very rarely, find the need to work a 3-iron. When I'm 195 out (my 3-i distance), I am usually trying to just get it up there to the green. The only exception to this is the punch shot under tree limbs, which I find to be impossible to do (for me) with a hybrid for whatever reason. So for a punch shot, I'll just use my 4i and live with the results.

I find that I CAN open the clubface to get a small fade out of it, though closing it slightly often results in a bad hook. That might be because I may not be executing the shot correctly. I never find myself in a position where I want to get some extra loft or spin out of my 3i.

If I find myself 190 out of a shallow green, I'll just club down and try to bounce/roll the ball on the green, since my H doesn't spin the ball very much.

However, with an 8-i, I may find myself in a position behind a tree, where I want to draw the ball or pop it over the tree, which I couldn't do with my hybrid. I might also find myself in deep rough closer to the hole, where a hybrid might have trouble (when combined with my swing) digging out the ball.

Of course, this is a thought out response to some questions, so it's bound to get flamed by professional, scratch playing blade toters who give themselves 10-foot puts and don't count penalty stokes :-)

I used my 19 deg Wilson hybrid last week to hit a great big low slice out from under a tree.. worked like a charm, stayed low, cut big, ended up close to the green from about 185..

They're really not that hard to work... make the right swing, the hybrid will do as much as the three iron will, except maybe the same swing will get a higher ball with a hybrid...

But I hit it low when I needed to.

Awesome dave, great shot man. I hope to one day learn to slice my hybrids like that.