FLOing..PUREing..SPINE ALIGN

just learning about these concepts as they relate to shafts...anyone with any experience here...

from what i can gather...PUREing is a patened process owned by sst...

also, from what i have read, good steel shafts...mine are rifle tour flighted 5.5s....anyway, good steel shafts have very little difference in frequency measurements...and so there is not much to be gained from aligning them...on average

as for graphite shafts it depends...filament wound shafts are also known to be very precise with regard to frequency(stiffness)...but wrapped graphite shafts can have wider frequency ranges within them so they can benefit from spine alignment and floing...

someone else give me some help here and add some knowledge or experience please...

After talking to someone who has a lot of experience with club work they said spineing (however you spell it) is pretty much worthless. He seemed to think the difference in a spined vs. unspined shaft was negligible in almost every case. He said the only person who may notice a difference would be someone at the Tour level. I wouldn't personally worry about it. He also added that if it was done for free or very small charge it coudln't hurt to have it done but that he wouldn't pay much for it to be done. Of course, like everything, there are people who will swear by it and people who think it's a big joke. So, I'm sure you'll get a full array of perspectives.

it's amazing how many things you hear on this subject...

i have pretty much learned that my irons are fine...rifle tour flighted shafts are supposed to be very precise in their tolerances and so there is unlikely to be much difference in cpm within the same shaft...no matter how it is aligned...

my driver and 3 wood though are a another matter...they have graphite shafts....ys-6 and ys7 and from what i have been told jsut today by a few people is that these shafts are notorious for being way out of whack...

one very good club lab in california i spoke with today told me that these shafts are so out of whack you can't even FLO them at all sometimes...

so i am going to take my clubs there to be oscillated with the heads still on and see if there is a shaft wobble...

if a spined driver shaft gives me 7 more yards on a average drive of 285...well then i am that much closer to averaging 300 off the tee...

it will only cost me 10 bucks to have my entire set checked for shaft wobble so for curiosity sake i am going to do it...

thanks for your thoughts though....and good luck in your spring college tournaments and the like...

do you mind sharing with us what college or university you play golf for...i'm jsut curious...

Well, I play in an area where the season is way too short. I actually only played 2 seasons and then I injured my elbow and have been getting myself back into true form. I have sucked the last couple of years relative to where I was. I can't quite throw my right arm through (partially mental and physical) so I have some minor issues. I can still shoot pretty well but I'm not as consistent as I could be. As far as telling you where I played...that's my little secret! ;) Although, I still do go to college there but should be graduating relatively soon. I've been working on rehab the last couple years and this year is the first year I can do arm curls without doubling up in pain every time. So, I feel I've been making progress. Once I get the mental part out of my head I hope to groove my swing the way it should be again.

[QUOTE=Czar of the Short Game]it's amazing how many things you hear on this subject...

i have pretty much learned that my irons are fine...rifle tour flighted shafts are supposed to be very precise in their tolerances and so there is unlikely to be much difference in cpm within the same shaft...no matter how it is aligned...

my driver and 3 wood though are a another matter...they have graphite shafts....ys-6 and ys7 and from what i have been told jsut today by a few people is that these shafts are notorious for being way out of whack...

one very good club lab in california i spoke with today told me that these shafts are so out of whack you can't even FLO them at all sometimes...

so i am going to take my clubs there to be oscillated with the heads still on and see if there is a shaft wobble...

if a spined driver shaft gives me 7 more yards on a average drive of 285...well then i am that much closer to averaging 300 off the tee...

it will only cost me 10 bucks to have my entire set checked for shaft wobble so for curiosity sake i am going to do it...

thanks for your thoughts though....and good luck in your spring college tournaments and the like...

do you mind sharing with us what college or university you play golf for...i'm jsut curious...[/QUOTE]


What do you want to know?

I'll tell you this right now, all your clubs will "wobble" save your ten bucks.

FLO stands for "Flat Line Oscillation". It is a process that is used to FIND the spine of a shaft. PURing is another that SST has indeed patented and licensed to Golfsmith. Actually aligning the spine is something else entirely. The are several ways to do it. Beleive it or not, some ways are actually in violation of the Rules of Golf.

Shall I expand?

In case you wonder about my credentials, there are plenty of old timers here who know who I am. They can tell you.

[QUOTE=Jeff_h] Actually aligning the spine is something else entirely. The are several ways to do it.[/QUOTE]

I've read at several different component vendors talk about the way they spine align. Some use machines and some said they place the shaft in a certain clock position i.e. 4 o clock or 9 o clock. Is there a correct way?

[QUOTE=Jeff_h]What do you want to know?

I'll tell you this right now, all your clubs will "wobble" save your ten bucks.

FLO stands for "Flat Line Oscillation". It is a process that is used to FIND the spine of a shaft. PURing is another that SST has indeed patented and licensed to Golfsmith. Actually aligning the spine is something else entirely. The are several ways to do it. Beleive it or not, some ways are actually in violation of the Rules of Golf.

Shall I expand?

In case you wonder about my credentials, there are plenty of old timers here who know who I am. They can tell you.[/QUOTE]
Jeff_H has extensive expertise and experience in club building and modification. When he offers an opinion, it is wise to LISTEN CLOSELY! It is a privilege to have him share his knowledge with us on this board. Thanks, Jeff.

[QUOTE=Jeff_h]What do you want to know?

I'll tell you this right now, all your clubs will "wobble" save your ten bucks.

FLO stands for "Flat Line Oscillation". It is a process that is used to FIND the spine of a shaft. PURing is another that SST has indeed patented and licensed to Golfsmith. Actually aligning the spine is something else entirely. The are several ways to do it. Beleive it or not, some ways are actually in violation of the Rules of Golf.

Shall I expand?

In case you wonder about my credentials, there are plenty of old timers here who know who I am. They can tell you.[/QUOTE]


thanks for responding...i want to know many things...

let's start with my iron shafts...as i said, i use rifle tour flighted 5.5s in my macgregor blades...i'll show you a link that says there is no need to worry about pureing or spine aligning or floing one's irons if you use high quality steel shafts...i have read it in a few places(including the link) but have also been told by a few different clubmakers that this is not the case...they say floing iron shafts is important...here's the link...[url]http://www.csfa.com/techframe.htm[/url]...once there, click on the link on the left that says "Wobble"...it is the third one from the top...

so my question is who is right..?..do good steel shafts really need floing for one's irons..?..

next question...my driver and 3 wood have graphite shafts...ys-6 and ys-7...you read where i wrote before that i was told that these shafts are notoriously out of whack and must be FLOed...the place in LA that told me this, is talked about in this interesting article...(link...[url]http://www.maxoutgolf.com/Pages/Articles-LAgolf.html[/url])...

so my question is how valid is this...i hit my driver really well...is this a bunch of hype in your opinion, or will it improve my driver's performance...

comment please aboout the writer in the story above(the 2nd link) and how after he had his shaft FLOed and aligned that it's performance became horrendous and he had them reshaft it to its original state...what explains that..?..

thanks in advance for your consideration...

My problem with all of these concepts is the fact that the clubhead and shaft are rotating for almost the entire golf swing. Because of this rotation, any alignment of spine or orientation resulting in a good wobble, will be changed throughout. If we humans swung the club in such a way where the stresses were placed on the same place on the cross sectional sphere the entire swing, then I do believe these techniques would be of great benefit.

[QUOTE=Jeff_h]What do you want to know?

I'll tell you this right now, all your clubs will "wobble" save your ten bucks.

FLO stands for "Flat Line Oscillation". It is a process that is used to FIND the spine of a shaft. PURing is another that SST has indeed patented and licensed to Golfsmith. Actually aligning the spine is something else entirely. The are several ways to do it. Beleive it or not, some ways are actually in violation of the Rules of Golf.

Shall I expand?

In case you wonder about my credentials, there are plenty of old timers here who know who I am. They can tell you.[/QUOTE]

Hi Jeff.

Good to hear from you and hope we will see more of you....

OK here we go.....

ALL shafts have a spine. ALL shafts have a spine. That was worth repeating, wasn't it??

The issue is, how bad is the spine and, depending on the material, how many are there?

Generally speaking, a steel shaft will have one predominant spine. A graphite will have a primary and a secondary.

Without a doubt, PURing is the best way to find the spine(s). FLOing is next best, but it requires a laser and, ideally, a frequency analyzer.

Without going into to much detail, the primary spine of a shaft is essentially the heaviest side. You can find it by taking a raw shaft, plugging both ends with corks and throwing it in a filled bath tub. The side that ends up down is the spine side. Most people will find that installing that heavy side towards the target will give the most consistent performance (that's why PURing directions are opposite for lefty vs. righty golfers, the side to the target is opposite).

Deliberately finding the spine and then installing it in such a manner as to effect ball flight (like trying to induce fade or draw bias) is illegal. Finding the spine and installing it for consistency is not illegal.

And yes, spine alignment can help with consistency. Especially with graphite shafts.

i've learned a lot since yesterday on this subject...i have been all over the net researching the concepts...i found some fairly interesting sites that go heavy into the math and engineering of it all...

here's what i've learned...FLOing rules...it allows you to find the most stable plane of oscillation for any shaft and you simply then orient this plane either toward the target or toward the center of gravity of the clubhead...this idea of CG orientation of the FLO plane was researched by tom wishon as well as kaufmann....it seems to work according to them...i also learned form kaufmann's work that a shaft placed 5 degrees off FLO line took 5 complete oscillations before the first wobble appeared...and since the clubhead only passes thru 1(actually less than one)oscillation before striking the ball...Thus determining spineand FLO to the nth degree is basically useless...you only need to be close...

i also learned that steel shafts though they have a spine don't usually need FLOing...Royal precision which makes rifles and other shafts has a 2cpm or less difference in their steel shafts...this is nothing and basically is a bunch of clubmaking hooha to generate revenue...and i've been told this directly by tom wishon today in a 6 paragraph response he gave to my question on his forum....

he and kaufmann also said that 95 % of graphite shafts...meaning all the good ones are NOW FLOed at the factory before they are painted and the logos applied...so as long as they are installed either logo 12 o clock or logo 6 o clock then things will be koshur...and i confirmed this today with calls to fujikura, penley, accuflex, aldila, graphite design and graffaloy...i also learned that some wound shafts are so well made that they rarely have a cpm difference of greater than 3...so essentialy PUReing or FLOing these shafts is a waste of time...they are fine as they are...

it sounds like this was much more of a problem 5 years ago....

overall, a great learning process...