My S&T swing...

[pingman360]

Well i dont have classes on fridays so i usually spend the obviously i spend the whole day practicing at work (i work for my instructor) instead of just the time i would usually spend practicing after classes... i try to practice as much as i can on the weekends just in case i have papers and stuff one day and cant get out to practice... but its pretty much pouring outside today and the practice facility that my instructor owns and i work at is closed... we have a studio there but i didnt really feel like going down there in the rain so i decided to hit some in my garage... i have some of those callaway practice balls that are like this foam material so i have been hitting those... well all that to say heres my swing...

idk why its sideways sorry about that when i uploaded it it switched over sideways but w/e... i'll upload a face on view in a bit...

http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1819

btw... its pretty close to being correct just a few more tweaks and itll be there...

[pingman360]

face on...

http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1820

[bjdrivers]

looks good, have you had any problems hitting driver? I've read that's the hardest to get in the air with that swing.

btw, why aren't you bagging some forged blades?

[pingman360]

looks good, have you had any problems hitting driver? I've read that's the hardest to get in the air with that swing.

btw, why aren't you bagging some forged blades?

nah no problems... i think most ppl have problems with the driver b/c they try to switch to S&T on their own rather than seeing a pro who knows the swing... jmo though...

as for the forged blades... im in the market for irons just havent found anything that im sold on yet... plus id like to wait till all the V-groove irons come out next yr...

[bigpun1974]

Did you start out with a S&T type swing or did you do a complete overhaul? It looks like you make a big lateral move prior to rotating. Did you have any issues blocking the ball while developing your swing?

[pingman360]

ive been working toward S&T for about 2yrs now

and there is 0 lat movement thats just the hips rotating... 9 weight shift...

[collegegolfer]

It's tough to see for sure being it's sideways, but it looks to me like your swing is really flat and laid off at the top.

[daveperk]

backswing looks really flat and clubhead really laid open at top....

is that Tack and Stilt stuff?

[pingman360]

It's tough to see for sure being it's sideways, but it looks to me like your swing is really flat and laid off at the top.

yeah it currently is laid off a bit... but it is on plane for a OPS (ie S&T)... at times it does get a bit under the plane and it may be in these vids (to be honest i havent really analyzed them but my arms should be in line with my shoulders and paralell to the shaft plane at address... before i start my backswing i sit back a little bit so if you check it make sure you go off of that plane...

[pingman360]

backswing looks really flat and clubhead really laid open at top....

is that Tack and Stilt stuff?

yeah its actually more toward MORAD (mac o' grady's method) but S&T basically copied a lot of MORAD...

i would say the clubface is shut if anything.... also look at hogan i would say its about the same flatness as him.... S&T is rather flat comparatively to other methods so in that regard yes, it is flat... it may still be a little too flat im not sure i went too flat for a while and recently my instructor has been trying to get me back on plane i think im pretty close in these but may be just a touch flat still...

[KoolCat]

When you do miss, is it a pull-hook? Or a big push to the right? Definitely looks flat...

[daveperk]

yeah its actually more toward MORAD (mac o' grady's method) but S&T basically copied a lot of MORAD...

i would say the clubface is shut if anything.... also look at hogan i would say its about the same flatness as him.... S&T is rather flat comparatively to other methods so in that regard yes, it is flat... it may still be a little too flat im not sure i went too flat for a while and recently my instructor has been trying to get me back on plane i think im pretty close in these but may be just a touch flat still...

Looking again, I see the clubface isn't really what I meant.... the shaft is laid off, rather than pointing downline on top of the backswing (if you ever even got it parallel, which you didn't cuz it's such a short backswing)... it's like your swing plane gets fractured on the way back, looks a lot like Sergio...

DO all the Tack and Stilt guys leave the shaft pointing so far left of target at the top?

I like what you do with it though... looks like a good solid 'drop in slot' move and good contact and a finish that shows consistency of contact...

just curious about the layoff at the top... I've been watching for that a lot, cuz I have a friend (my wife's colleague, a woman) who does the opposite... she cranks it back and then manages at the top to point the shaft way RIGHT of the target, like Natalie Gulbis. I've been trying to tell her it wastes energy to push the club so far off plane and then have to yank it back there on the downswing, let alone it makes it harder to hit consistently.

But with you, it seems that layoff doesn't waste that kind of swing energy...

You also have a nice tall address position, until right when you're about to start, at which point you do a squat and flatten move before you take the club back.... why stand tall at address if that's not the position you're going to be in when you take it back? It's like your version of the old 'forward press', the move my dad always said he needed to 'kick off' the swing.

The main reason you're so flat is that you don't take the club back from that nice address position. You take it back from the squat and lower hands position.

I'm rambling at 5 am here.. whaddya think?

[jesse.day]

Looks pretty good. just remember to keep your GPA as good as your swing.

[pingman360]

ok i'll try and anser a few things to the best of my ability...

first the simplest one to Kool Cat... my misses are either a BIG hook (this one rarely happens) or most of the time a block...

and to dave...

For S&T that is not flat actually it what they recomend... i used to be really upright and now weve changed that and gotten me into a much better position for S&T... the next thing id like to adress it the "shortness" of my swing... S&T is a short ARM swing but my shoulders do in fact turn 90* which is also the correct amount... it looks like a 3/4ths swing to most conventional players but it generates plenty of speed and loads of accuracy... that being said i think this is why a few have mentioned that it looks laid off... it very well may be but i think its just an opptical illusion... that being said being a bit laid off i feel helps you to drop it back on plane a bit easier now i wouldnt recomend building the laid off into a swing but i think that if you are a bit laid off that its ok and not really somethingg worth messing with... now with Vijays old swing has was quite a bit laid off... then he went back too far abd was across the line so if youre too laid off then yeah i would correct it... the squat is actually me trying to adjust my knees to be in line with each other and weight on the right part of my feet... its not really optimal to do this right before i start the swing but it just a trigger for me (kinda like bubbas left thumb before he goes) this is really something that i'd like to correct but thats down the road a little bit and not really next on the list...

but to summarize arms in line with the shoulders is what they teach for S&T and is not flat for this method but rather right on plane...
yea i may be a bit laid off but as of right now its not really something thats hurting me... but i will ask my instructor if i am...
and finnally DO NOT COPY MY SQUAT... lol...

[Omen2]

the only problem i see is the lack of golf clubs.. you should try to make golf swings only with real golf clubs.... i mean do you practice with a walking cane or umbrella? NO...

get some irons and you should be perfect.

[bjdrivers]

get some irons and you should be perfect.

Here here! I'm thinking some Mizzy's will have him pin seeking in no time.

[collegegolfer]

Dave,

A lot of female golfers I have worked with get the club pointing right at the top of the swing. They have a tendency to overswing at the top...there's usually a little extra hip turn to allow the shoulders to do this extra turn and get the club off line.

[Mward2002]

While I'm not big on the stack and tilt method, I will agree 100% about a 3/4 swing being just as effective, if not better than a long swing. My instructor would cry tears of joy if he heard me say that. Much less wasted motion, more accurate, and eventually longer once you get used to it.

In regards to being laid off, your hands are just under your top shoulder when you get up to the top. Not sure what to tell you about that cause what I do to get in that position is opposite what you do, other than maybe your wrist hinge? Does S&T teach to delay it any?

[Not a hacker]

Here here! I'm thinking some Mizzy's will have him pin seeking in no time.

PM, you have been saying how accurate the S&T is with your SGI scattergun shovels. If you take the advice of BJ and Omen and man up with some real golf clubs you should be absolutely knocking the pins down and stiffing everything. Accuracy with Pings (which even for the best players would only be hitting it in the general direction of the green) equates to tap-ins with grain flow forged.

[pingman360]

While I'm not big on the stack and tilt method, I will agree 100% about a 3/4 swing being just as effective, if not better than a long swing. My instructor would cry tears of joy if he heard me say that. Much less wasted motion, more accurate, and eventually longer once you get used to it.

In regards to being laid off, your hands are just under your top shoulder when you get up to the top. Not sure what to tell you about that cause what I do to get in that position is opposite what you do, other than maybe your wrist hinge? Does S&T teach to delay it any?

it doesnt teach it and it doesnt teach against it i just try to lag the clubhead on the way down rather like sergio, camillo, CHIII, or JB than increase the angle on the backswing... it still works the same way just a different way of cocking the wrists... i find its easier to release the face and square it up idk why but for me its just easier this way... also S&T teaches that the hand should be behind the right shoulder @ the top... so again while it may be a TINY bit flat its only probably about an inch...

[Omen2]

i agree with setting the wrist via lagging is easier than early cocking... i tried the early cocking and the only thing it led to was a cupped left wrist which equaled gay flippy wristy action... now that i am retraining my swing to a one piece takeaway and lagging on the way down, i seem to be striking the ball much better... imagine how good i'll be when i get the 33's (all 3 of the sets i was watching sold out from under me; DAMN... those are some highly sought after irons)

Omen

[bjdrivers]

i agree with setting the wrist via lagging is easier than early cocking... i tried the early cocking and the only thing it led to was a cupped left wrist which equaled gay flippy wristy action... now that i am retraining my swing to a one piece takeaway and lagging on the way down, i seem to be striking the ball much better... imagine how good i'll be when i get the 33's (all 3 of the sets i was watching sold out from under me; DAMN... those are some highly sought after irons)

Omen

And just think, I got my set with rifles for $170 shipped. You hate me don't you?

[Omen2]

Edgey,
i seem to recall reading something in either golf world or some other golf mag (maybe 2 years ago) that did a study to see if Tiger had indeed increased the golfing population. the answer was NO... golf has been steadily declining for a while now...

that is why all of the manufacturers are reinventing the wheel ( TM EVERY 6 MONTHS) in an effort to attract more and keep the ones that they have by making the game more enjoyable for more people. this is the reason why you dont see marshalls that actually marshall anymore. rarely do you ever see them hurry along a slow group, much less force them to skip a few holes... its the reason why more and more private clubs are becoming semi private.

Not sure if the economy is due to the decine in golf, but it could explain why less people are joining clubs... Not sure how it is where you are but a few of the private clubs that i have experience with have a relatively low number of people that play more than 20 rounds a year... so with the economic strains it is not conducive to pay initiations and monthly dues when you could just pay daily rates at another "commensurate" course 20 times.

just my theory... but i am sad to see the privates deteriorating.... i had desperately hoped to belong to one, and not one of those several hundred thousand dollar jobbers. something akin to the SPCC.

Omen,

[bigpun1974]

Edgey,
i seem to recall reading something in either golf world or some other golf mag (maybe 2 years ago) that did a study to see if Tiger had indeed increased the golfing population. the answer was NO... golf has been steadily declining for a while now...

that is why all of the manufacturers are reinventing the wheel ( TM EVERY 6 MONTHS) in an effort to attract more and keep the ones that they have by making the game more enjoyable for more people. this is the reason why you dont see marshalls that actually marshall anymore. rarely do you ever see them hurry along a slow group, much less force them to skip a few holes... its the reason why more and more private clubs are becoming semi private.

Not sure if the economy is due to the decine in golf, but it could explain why less people are joining clubs... Not sure how it is where you are but a few of the private clubs that i have experience with have a relatively low number of people that play more than 20 rounds a year... so with the economic strains it is not conducive to pay initiations and monthly dues when you could just pay daily rates at another "commensurate" course 20 times.

just my theory... but i am sad to see the privates deteriorating.... i had desperately hoped to belong to one, and not one of those several hundred thousand dollar jobbers. something akin to the SPCC.

Omen,

It only costs 10% more to go first class. Man up and join Yeman's Hall or the Daniel Island Club. It's only money.

[Home-slicer]

...but i am sad to see the privates deteriorating....
Omen,

Some penicillin should clear that up.

[Mward2002]

Omen, I actually save money a year going private. Dues and everything suck come the end of the month, but the ability to play sub 3 hour rounds hacker free is a huge plus. No one coming into your fairway saying they hit their Top Flite FREAK over into your fairway and it magically turned into a ProV1. With the cooler weather approaching, I can start walking the course again and that costs nada. From mid-October or November to March is free, so my bill that month is 0. It's really hard to beat that.

[rooboy]

hey pingman, would love to hear your thoughts of s&t with the driver( ball position,how you shallow the swing out etc) . I finally decided to go with s&t for good about two months ago and my short game (including bunkers) and iron play has had a big improvement. I bought the s&t dvd set and after practising some of the advice i am now starting to hit draws,fades and high and low balls. I cannot for the life of me however hit my driver or 3 wood with any consistency (usually short and straight or short and right!!!) Just wondering what sort(if any) adjustments you make to play the longer clubs.

rooboy

[Home-slicer]

The swing looks good pingman. I really like the way the video looks sideways. It makes you look like Adam West era Batman scaling a building.

[pingman360]

hey pingman, would love to hear your thoughts of s&t with the driver( ball position,how you shallow the swing out etc) . I finally decided to go with s&t for good about two months ago and my short game (including bunkers) and iron play has had a big improvement. I bought the s&t dvd set and after practising some of the advice i am now starting to hit draws,fades and high and low balls. I cannot for the life of me however hit my driver or 3 wood with any consistency (usually short and straight or short and right!!!) Just wondering what sort(if any) adjustments you make to play the longer clubs.

rooboy

the best thing i can say to do is to make sure that with the driver especially your head stays in line to behind the ball @ impact... and that your hips and pelvis go up and left... as long as you do this you should have no problems getting more height on your shot...

[daveperk]

. but i am sad to see the privates deteriorating....
Omen,

Yes, well I warned President Clinton that sooner or later it would catch up with him...

[rooboy]

i agree with setting the wrist via lagging is easier than early cocking... i tried the early cocking and the only thing it led to was a cupped left wrist which equaled gay flippy wristy action... now that i am retraining my swing to a one piece takeaway and lagging on the way down, i seem to be striking the ball much better... imagine how good i'll be when i get the 33's (all 3 of the sets i was watching sold out from under me; DAMN... those are some highly sought after irons)

Omen

one of the things they talk about on the s&t dvd set is to allow your wrists to hinge gradually with the momentun of the swing (dont set them too early or not at all). There is then another section on the "flying wedge" which is basically holding the right wrist angle right through to the follow through (and they mention more advanced players actually increase this angle on the downswing).

[strokeguru]

Regardless of what you guys are talking about I am a fan of stack and tilt but only for my iron and wedge play. But as for my driver or anybody else's driver stroke .If you cant get a 90 degree shoulder turn and keep your Chin up at address and fire your left hip before you start down youll just have to live with mediocre distance off the tee. I bet alot of you guys on here would hit 300 yd bombs consistently if youd stop reading this crap and get some tried and true golf lessons and work on flexibility and core balance and let the shoulders turn the hips and vice versa on the way down without rushing to hit the ball. Or maybe you should join the Asian twosome 2 holes back their names are Tie ming and Tem poe. FYI if your hitting consistent pushes to the right with the S&T method check and see if your grip is to weak or maybe your getting to long on the back swing or not standing straight up through impact like they say you should. The guys teaching this method also say S&T with the driver in hand is a method for a right to left ball flight and that your hands should be slightly ahead of the ball at address and attacking the ball with an in to out swing path.