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  1. #1
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    Importance of Shafts?Fitted for shafts?

    Shafts seem to be important...we talk about them but i have not heard or read much about getting fitted for them. I personally believe they are very important.

    What are the specs that one looks at when looking for the right shaft besides stiff and reg?

  2. #2
    kick point, tip stiffness, torque should also be considered along with overall stiffness.

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    Spine aligning, makes a huge difference on the Big Stick.
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  4. #4
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    Weight, kickpoint, tip stiffness, torque, and don't forget to check the hosel configuration to know whether a club is 0.335" vs. 0.350" for woods, or 0.370" parallel vs. 0.355" taper for irons.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

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    The importance of the crrect shaft cannot be stressed strongly enough. It's very easy to get fitted for them, but there are several theories on which way to go. Most fitters and teaching pro's will tell you to go for the softest possible shaft you can still hit accurately, but for me personally I prefer the stiffest possible shaft I can comfortably load up. I just swapped out a VS proto 65R in my driver for a Pershing 75S. The feel is totally different. The VS proto gave me good numbers on the launch monitor, but unfortunately the launch monitor only gives you speed readings, and can't realy predict the accuracy. The VS proto had a habit of producing a big snap hook if I got too quick in tempo, but the so far the new shaft hasn't done this.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  6. #6
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    My long club and iron/wedge shafts are quite different.

    As I've mentioned on other threads, I imagine long clubs, with their lighter clubheads, to be more reliant on the velocity at the end of a long arc for impact energy.

    Irons and wedges have more mass in the clubhead, even if the external dimensions are smaller, and use that component of the equation for impact energy.

    With the long clubs, I play the UST ProForce V2 HL because its got a softier, kickier tip to help load over the smaller arc of my shortish backswing,

    With the irons and wedges, I play Aldila NV Pro 105s which are heavier and have a higher kick point. I've never needed distance or trajectory help with the shorter clubs, and the heavier shafts are less torquey with the heavy heads.

    There may be countless engineers and clubmakers who'd dispute my theories, but with fifty years of golf, one gets an idea of what works for him.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    The importance of the crrect shaft cannot be stressed strongly enough. It's very easy to get fitted for them, but there are several theories on which way to go. Most fitters and teaching pro's will tell you to go for the softest possible shaft you can still hit accurately, but for me personally I prefer the stiffest possible shaft I can comfortably load up. I just swapped out a VS proto 65R in my driver for a Pershing 75S. The feel is totally different. The VS proto gave me good numbers on the launch monitor, but unfortunately the launch monitor only gives you speed readings, and can't realy predict the accuracy. The VS proto had a habit of producing a big snap hook if I got too quick in tempo, but the so far the new shaft hasn't done this.
    Agreed with the stiffest shaft you can load. Control is more important than an extra few yards on a great hit, at least if you're interested in scoring.
    On the other hand, I've had shafts that were really a bit too stiff for me to load properly. I ended up overswinging to try to load the shaft, and ended up losing accuracy as well.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  8. #8
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    shafts are the key, in whats works with your swing everybodys different. i played many combos before finding whats works for me. demo lots of clubs like you want, with different shafts to find the majic.
    Tm R9 420cc 9.5 Motore Tm R9 3 wood rip phenom, Titleist 909h 19* 24* voodoo, Scratch EZ-1 ds i80,steelfiber 3 or 4. 5-9 KBS, ds 47* jlm, pdg 53* ds 60* Odyssey Black 2 ball tour blade 33.5" Lethal

  9. #9
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    Of course shaft is most important. You dont want a shaft that feels like a board or broom stick. IMO alot play a shaft with the wrong kick point for the loft and size head of head. Some play the wrong shaft because they load the shaft too much at the top , and some load too much on the take away. But having a shaft that weighs the right amount of grams is equally important aswell if your looking for distance. I prefer stiff tipped shafts with about 3.2-3.8 degrees of torque, and then a mid-high kick point shaft for my ball trajectory preference. I tend to fight a hook sometimes so Id rather go with a stiffer shaft than most, The average golfer who has a descent swing tend to have kick points to low and causes them to hit high towering slices. You have to find the shaft that you can control the most consistently

    If you swing 80-85mph use a senior flex or low kick regular flex..If you swing 90-100mph use a stiff shaft with a mid or high kick point. And 105+mph use an x-flex with whatever kick point you like that gives you your preferred trajectory.
    A.K.A StrokeGuru

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProStatus

    If you swing 80-85mph use a senior flex or low kick regular flex..If you swing 90-100mph use a stiff shaft with a mid or high kick point. And 105+mph use an x-flex with whatever kick point you like that gives you your preferred trajectory.
    This is the kind of simple minded, "everybody can fit into a pigeonhole" thinking that makes golf chain store fitters notoriously bad.
    There's a lot more involved than simply swingspeed. There are many other factors, but sadly, most "clubfitters" at chain stores that I have encountered have a painfully overly simplistic view on fitting, to the detriment of some of their clients. It's just like the OEM's with their "what works for most people will work for everybody" mentality.

    The guidelines you suggest there will put many people into shafts that are too stiff for them. (I assume you are referring to driver swingspeeds here.)

    Of course, if you are talking about "flex inflated" OEM shafts with which you probably work with at a chain store, rather than quality aftermarket shafts with which a quality clubfitter would utilize, you may not be quite as far off.

    Where is Lyle G when we need him?
    Last edited by dorkman53; 01-17-2009 at 10:05 PM.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    This is the kind of simple minded, "everybody can fit into a pigeonhole" thinking that makes golf chain store fitters notoriously bad.
    There's a lot more involved than simply swingspeed. There are many other factors, but sadly, most "clubfitters" at chain stores that I have encountered have a painfully overly simplistic view on fitting, to the detriment of some of their clients. It's just like the OEM's with their "what works for most people will work for everybody" mentality.

    The guidelines you suggest there will put many people into shafts that are too stiff for them. (I assume you are referring to driver swingspeeds here.)

    Of course, if you are talking about "flex inflated" OEM shafts with which you probably work with at a chain store, rather than quality aftermarket shafts with which a quality clubfitter would utilize, you may not be quite as far off.

    Where is Lyle G when we need him?
    Sure............A simple minded answer for simple minded people. You should read the whole statement again. Youll see I mentioned many variables that are in voled in a shaft fitting. ......As for me working for a chain store which IMO doesnt limit my knowledge of the game or fiting expertise. I get some of the lamest , stupidest questions ever asked by an individual who plays golf ,, And yes I mean some outlandish crap. Its like come on people you can put 2 and 2 together. I sometimes wonder if the guys wife tied his shoes before he left. To be honest the women I deal with have better questions than most of the guys. It all boils down to your preference and feel. But then again not many even know the just of things when it comes to shaft fitting. Matter of fact I bet you dorkman probably have the wrong shaft in your driver even as we speak.......How u like them apples
    A.K.A StrokeGuru

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProStatus
    Matter of fact I bet you dorkman probably have the wrong shaft in your driver even as we speak.......How u like them apples
    Wrong again. Absolutely not. I get a superb blend of distance, accuracy, and feel; no thanks to you, though. I have a 95-98 mph swingspeed with a compact swing, smooth tempo and a comparatively early release. Of course, if I was being fitted for some noodle OEM shaft you probably spend 99% of your time fitting, maybe I would need a so-called "stiff" shaft.

    If you used those criteria of swingspeed even as a starting point, you would end up with lots of people with shafts that are too stiff. Maybe your swing speed machine at Golf Galaxy isn't properly calibrated, so you're accidentally giving people the right advice. More likely, however, you are mis-fitting lots of people who are too ill informed to know the difference. They take your bad advice and blame themselves for the poor results that follow. Best of all, when they are dissatisfied, they may come back to you for another set of clubs, hoping against hope that a different model or brand of clubs will give them better results. $$$ from their pocket to yours.

    Your comment about the stupid questions you get asked is certainly accurate. Most people come into a golf store not knowing a great, deal, and are expecting that the person fitting them is somewhat of an expert. While the fitter may or may not be a fine golfer him/herself, fitting someone else is an entirely different skill set. I have been impressed that a lot of fitters in chain golf stores really don't know what they are talking about, and I suspect that you may be among these. You'd strongly consider putting someone with a 90 mph swing in stiff shafts. You recommended S300 shafts for someone without knowing anything about their swing, other than the trajectory was too high when he was playing shafts that are unusually lightweight and have a very low kickpoint. If you were such a hot fitter, you wouldn't be working at Golf Galaxy.
    Last edited by dorkman53; 01-18-2009 at 07:43 AM.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  13. #13
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    Dork,

    I gave up on threads like these. Guy like ProStatus are such morons that I cant even bring myself to respond to these threads anymore. The guy works at Dicks for 3 months and believes he's a clubfitter. The only cure for that is a kick in the head.

    For example, of all the parameters involved in shaft fitting swing speed is probably 4th or 5th on the list in true real world importance.

    The constant babbling about torque also grinds my gears. Torque in modern shaft design is nothing more than a feel parameter in most cases. The difference in actual playing characteristics between a shaft with 2* and 5* of torque is nonexistent. All the difference will do is change the feel of the shafts slightly.

    When it comes to driver shaft fitting, the players transition at the top is the most important factor, followed by his release point (the point in the swing he releases his wrist cock angle), his tempo would be next and then his swing speed. In fact if I was forced to eliminate one of these 4 factors as a fitting variable it would be swing speed without a doubt. Swing speed is a result of the other 3 factors, and if you fit for the first 3 correctly the forth variable will fall in line on its own.

    Many people believe that certain shafts can lower or raise spin rates. The shaft itself is not a magic wand and cant just increase or lower a spin rate. Spin is directly related to loft, and the speed at which the club head makes contact with the ball. The only way a shaft contributes to this is by the amount of forward bend it contributes at impact. In almost every case the maximum this will be is about 2* of effective loft. The stiffer the tip section of the shaft, and the lower the bend point, the less the shaft contributes to effective loft. No magic bullet, to secret, just tip stiffness and bend point, bend point being the least important of the 2 as it contributes far less than tip stiffness.

    So when it comes to being properly fit a lot of things go into the decision. The problem may people have is that they use the wrong fitting variables when making their decisions. This results in bad fittings and makes the likely hood of a good fit being a matter of luck instead of club fitter skill.

    If anyone is truly interested I can go into to this in greater detail. I have a 27 day old newborn at home though and as a result my time is limited and my thoughts somewhat muddied. So please keep that in mind and bare with me.
    Last edited by LyleG; 01-18-2009 at 08:05 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Dork,

    I gave up on threads like these. Guy like ProStatus are such morons that I cant even bring myself to respond to these threads anymore. The guy works at Dicks for 3 months and believes he's a clubfitter. The only cure for that is a kick in the head.

    For example, of all the parameters involved in shaft fitting swing speed is probably 4th or 5th on the list in true real world importance.

    The constant babbling about torque also grinds my gears. Torque in modern shaft design is nothing more than a feel parameter in most cases. The difference in actual playing characteristics between a shaft with 2* and 5* of torque is nonexistent. All the difference will do is change the feel of the shafts slightly.

    When it comes to driver shaft fitting, the players transition at the top is the most important factor, followed by his release point (the point in the swing he releases his wrist cock angle), his tempo would be next and then his swing speed. In fact if I was forced to eliminate one of these 4 factors as a fitting variable it would be swing speed without a doubt. Swing speed is a result of the other 3 factors, and if you fit for the first 3 correctly the forth variable will fall in line on its own.

    Many people believe that certain shafts can lower or raise spin rates. The shaft itself is not a magic wand and cant just increase or lower a spin rate. Spin is directly related to loft, and the speed at which the club head makes contact with the ball. The only way a shaft contributes to this is by the amount of forward bend it contributes at impact. In almost every case the maximum this will be is about 2* of effective loft. The stiffer the tip section of the shaft, and the lower the bend point, the less the shaft contributes to effective loft. No magic bullet, to secret, just tip stiffness and bend point, bend point being the least important of the 2 as it contributes far less than tip stiffness.

    So when it comes to being properly fit a lot of things go into the decision. The problem may people have is that they use the wrong fitting variables when making their decisions. This results in bad fittings and makes the likely hood of a good fit being a matter of luck instead of club fitter skill.

    If anyone is truly interested I can go into to this in greater detail. I have a 27 day old newborn at home though and as a result my time is limited and my thoughts somewhat muddied. So please keep that in mind and bare with me.
    Congratulations on fatherhood. Is it your first? Parenthood changes everything, but despite all the hassles it is so rewarding in the long run.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  15. #15
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    Yeah, congratulations, Lyle. That sleep deprivation stage is tough. If it helps, keep telling yourself it won't be that long before the three of you are teeing it up together.

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    Yes, its our first. I am 38 years old and had it made in the shade. I thought hmmmm, how can I throw a wrench into this well oiled machine LOL.

    Honestly though, best thing thats ever happened to me. He's doing great, Mom's doing great so thats all that matters to me.

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    I golfed with my son yesterday and all he wanted to do was argue. We usually get on great and spend much of the time laughing. It's a puberty thing. But I'd rather play a round with him when he's sullen and argumentative than play with anyone else.

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    Lol................A moron I could never possibly be, but on the other hand Im really not one who shells out advise on what to use and what shafts are the best for people.. As a matter of fact I dont fit anyone for shafts dude . I dont really care what people use or what their opinion is. My philosophy is I ll play my bag and you play your bag ...and stay the fk out of my bag and dont ask me what clubs I use or what club I just hit. All I do is build sets , Put shafts in drivers and throw grips on clubs. To my recongnizing is that everyone i deal with already have an idea as to what they want and whats best for them , and the sad part is alot of them are wrong about their choices. I honestly use this forum to share my rather and usually silent opinion. IMO there are probably 3 real golfers on this forum and LyleG is just some herb who just got married and has kids and his good golf years are over. I couldnt possibly argue with someone who plays golf once or twice a week and thinks he is a scratch golfer.

    Its just my opinion bro and nothing else. But calling me a moron and deniying the fact that im a stand up guy with golf knowledge that would save you a lifetime of strokes. You should be ashamed to call your self a father and respond to a mear internet thread with such IMMATURITY. Grow up and get a golf game Jabroni.
    A.K.A StrokeGuru

  19. #19
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    Congrats Lyle. I was 39 when our first came along in 2007, and it's been the best thing that has happened to us. I echo Lorenzo's comments on sleep deprivation, but you will be so in love with the little bundle of joy you won't mind getting up 5 or 6 times a night. And it will only be for the first few months. Our little girl was sleeping right through the night b 6 months old.

    If you have time between nappy changes, sterilising bottles, rocking baby to sleep, and generally running around the house like a headless chook at the behest of your wife, i wuld appreciate your views on GD Pershing shafts. I got the 75 in stiff and it feels very boardy (which I like as I fight a hook), but I noticed it has quite a high ball flight. Is this common for that shaft? Or is it becaue I'm not correctly loading the shaft?
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProStatus
    I'm really not one who shells out advise on what to use and what shafts are the best for people.. As a matter of fact I dont fit anyone for shafts dude .

    .
    Then you are, indeed, a great guru on club fitting. Just what I'd expect for a chain store "clubfitter." A true know-nothing who is happy to offer an opinion in order to share your ignorance.

    If you don't know anything about proper shaft fitting, why do you offer advice to strangers on this board?
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    Then you are, indeed, a great guru on club fitting. Just what I'd expect for a chain store "clubfitter." A true know-nothing who is happy to offer an opinion in order to share your ignorance.

    If you don't know anything about proper shaft fitting, why do you offer advice to strangers on this board?
    Zazazazazinnggggg!!!! Pro Status is getting awfully close to being owned.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    i wuld appreciate your views on GD Pershing shafts. I got the 75 in stiff and it feels very boardy (which I like as I fight a hook), but I noticed it has quite a high ball flight. Is this common for that shaft? Or is it becaue I'm not correctly loading the shaft?

    I am not really all that familiar with GD pershing shafts. I will tell you this though. Contrary to what many people think, hooks, and I am talking snap hooks especially, are far more often the result of a shaft that is too stiff than too soft. When a player cannot feel the shaft load (this is subconscious for most) they get the hands involved (again subconscious) and the hooks begin. I have fixed a lot more hooks by going softer in flex than the other way around.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    I am not really all that familiar with GD pershing shafts. I will tell you this though. Contrary to what many people think, hooks, and I am talking snap hooks especially, are far more often the result of a shaft that is too stiff than too soft. When a player cannot feel the shaft load (this is subconscious for most) they get the hands involved (again subconscious) and the hooks begin. I have fixed a lot more hooks by going softer in flex than the other way around.
    Interesting. I've had a somewhat different experience personally, but I can certainly understand your logic, and defer to your experience. For me, hitting a duck hook is the result of overswinging and trying to get the right hand too involved to "get a little more on the shot", and whether that is the result of overswinging a soft shaft, or subconsciously overswinging a too stiff shaft in order to feel it load, probably doesn't matter in the overall result. When I duck hook too soft a shaft, I get a high hook. If I duck hook a too stiff shaft, I get a low duck hook. Neither is a pretty sight, but the too soft shafts hook a lot more, because they are in the air longer.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  24. #24
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    Dork

    Every case is different and needs to be treated that way. Golf is a funny game and as a result conventional logic a lot of times doesnt work.

    Many people will hit hooks with too soft a shaft for sure, but the shafts actual role in that is quite small. Duck hooks are never the direct fault of the shaft to be honest, but a swing flaw. The feel of the shaft will no doubt contribute to the snap hook, be it conscious or not, but the shaft doesnt actually bend far enough to cause the snap hook itself. Unless of course we are talking a 120mph swing and a super soft ladies shaft, but you I think get my point.
    Feel of the shaft throughout the whole range of the swing has a profound effect on how we react during the swing. Flex changes of as little as 1/3 a flex can start to alter the results. When you add in all the other factors involved it becomes easy to see why finding the right shaft can be quite difficult, especially for an inexperienced person who is forced to rely on shaft manufacturer marketing for his info. In the end, science, experience and little luck are what is required to get a good fit.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Dork

    Every case is different and needs to be treated that way. Golf is a funny game and as a result conventional logic a lot of times doesnt work.

    Many people will hit hooks with too soft a shaft for sure, but the shafts actual role in that is quite small. Duck hooks are never the direct fault of the shaft to be honest, but a swing flaw. The feel of the shaft will no doubt contribute to the snap hook, be it conscious or not, but the shaft doesnt actually bend far enough to cause the snap hook itself. Unless of course we are talking a 120mph swing and a super soft ladies shaft, but you I think get my point.
    Feel of the shaft throughout the whole range of the swing has a profound effect on how we react during the swing. Flex changes of as little as 1/3 a flex can start to alter the results. When you add in all the other factors involved it becomes easy to see why finding the right shaft can be quite difficult, especially for an inexperienced person who is forced to rely on shaft manufacturer marketing for his info. In the end, science, experience and little luck are what is required to get a good fit.
    I agree. I wasn't saying that the soft shaft is the cause of the hook, but simply that it is easily overpowered by a bad swing.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    I am not really all that familiar with GD pershing shafts. I will tell you this though. Contrary to what many people think, hooks, and I am talking snap hooks especially, are far more often the result of a shaft that is too stiff than too soft. When a player cannot feel the shaft load (this is subconscious for most) they get the hands involved (again subconscious) and the hooks begin. I have fixed a lot more hooks by going softer in flex than the other way around.
    I find this interesting. When I start getting the hooks, I think it's because I get out of sequence, but I also know my hands are screwing things up. I don't know why either of these things begins to happen, but it's usually when I'm hitting everything else pretty well, including my three wood.

    My solution is to pull out another driver that has a softer shaft, heavier head and a face a little closed instead of my normal neutral. I can then feel the clubhead and don't hook that club.

    After playing the second driver for a little while, I'm able to go back to the first without the hooks. I think all of this may fit in with what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Dork,

    I gave up on threads like these. Guy like ProStatus are such morons that I cant even bring myself to respond to these threads anymore. The guy works at Dicks for 3 months and believes he's a clubfitter. The only cure for that is a kick in the head.

    For example, of all the parameters involved in shaft fitting swing speed is probably 4th or 5th on the list in true real world importance.

    The constant babbling about torque also grinds my gears. Torque in modern shaft design is nothing more than a feel parameter in most cases. The difference in actual playing characteristics between a shaft with 2* and 5* of torque is nonexistent. All the difference will do is change the feel of the shafts slightly.

    When it comes to driver shaft fitting, the players transition at the top is the most important factor, followed by his release point (the point in the swing he releases his wrist cock angle), his tempo would be next and then his swing speed. In fact if I was forced to eliminate one of these 4 factors as a fitting variable it would be swing speed without a doubt. Swing speed is a result of the other 3 factors, and if you fit for the first 3 correctly the forth variable will fall in line on its own.

    Many people believe that certain shafts can lower or raise spin rates. The shaft itself is not a magic wand and cant just increase or lower a spin rate. Spin is directly related to loft, and the speed at which the club head makes contact with the ball. The only way a shaft contributes to this is by the amount of forward bend it contributes at impact. In almost every case the maximum this will be is about 2* of effective loft. The stiffer the tip section of the shaft, and the lower the bend point, the less the shaft contributes to effective loft. No magic bullet, to secret, just tip stiffness and bend point, bend point being the least important of the 2 as it contributes far less than tip stiffness.

    So when it comes to being properly fit a lot of things go into the decision. The problem may people have is that they use the wrong fitting variables when making their decisions. This results in bad fittings and makes the likely hood of a good fit being a matter of luck instead of club fitter skill.

    If anyone is truly interested I can go into to this in greater detail. I have a 27 day old newborn at home though and as a result my time is limited and my thoughts somewhat muddied. So please keep that in mind and bare with me.
    so i have a question now...

    i am not a fitter, i know some of the basics of fitting but i dont really know all the in's and out's of it... i can put shafts in clubs, grips, and im learning to grind, but i have always been fit by giving a on course video to my fitter and also by hitting balls for him... i have no idea how he figures all the info out about which shafts i just know we always make up 3-4 different drivers for me to try and see which one works best and which one i like the feel of best...

    so my question is how does one measure release point???

  28. #28
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    Simply watching video in slow motion will tell you a players release point, be it early, mid or late.
    A player with a late release places a lot of stress on the shaft and will have the maximum forward shaft bend at impact. A player with an early release will have no forward shaft bend at impact as all the energy from the shaft is gone by impact and the shaft has already returned to straight. This is play an early release player needs far more club head loft than a late release player at the same swing speed.

  29. #29
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    Speaking of shafts, I think I want to try R flex in my irons.

    I don't think I'm man enough or have a hard enough swing for S flex irons. My swing is pretty short and smooth from the top.

    Hmmm...next time I'm in Golf Town..

    Their shafts are half price right now too..
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic

    Their shafts are half price right now too..
    So still about 25% too much

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    So still about 25% too much

    Lol. 7.50 a pop for DG.

    What'a you sell 'em for tough guy?
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    Those are black golds for that price. Pure junk.

    FST shafts are better anyways and less than $7 a piece.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Those are black golds for that price. Pure junk.

    FST shafts are better anyways and less than $7 a piece.
    http://www.golftown.com/gtcommerce/s...rt=DESC&Page=4



    GolfSmith only has FST shafts that cost 40.00 indv. Nooo thank you.
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    When I played steel, I favored the Brunswick Micro-Step shafts on woods and the True Temper Dyna-Lite on irons. Both were considered pedestrian chopper shafts back in the day, but I didn't necessarily chop with them.

    Are either still made?

    In any case, I still prefer a combo---UST ProForce V2HLs on long clubs, and Aldila NV Pro 105s on irons and wedges. Must be a habit.

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    henrik stenson is scary long with his 3 wood. he plays a XX stiff grafalloy blue in it too. that thing has to feel like a lead pipe. i've noticed when he misses, it goes left. as in hook or strong draw.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    I golfed with my son yesterday and all he wanted to do was argue. We usually get on great and spend much of the time laughing. It's a puberty thing. But I'd rather play a round with him when he's sullen and argumentative than play with anyone else.
    sounds like he needs to join GR
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Speaking of shafts, I think I want to try R flex in my irons.

    I don't think I'm man enough or have a hard enough swing for S flex irons. My swing is pretty short and smooth from the top.

    Hmmm...next time I'm in Golf Town..

    Their shafts are half price right now too..
    that's interesting JS, from what i remember from your swing, your tempo was pretty smooth like mine & S300 works great for me. are you blocking your irons or what?
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Zazazazazinnggggg!!!! Pro Status is getting awfully close to being owned.
    there's no close about it. dorkman called out the strokeguru & put him in his place. pathetic that status admitted his fitting ignorance w/out putting up a fight though.

    this thread is a great read. nice work brian.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    that's interesting JS, from what i remember from your swing, your tempo was pretty smooth like mine & S300 works great for me. are you blocking your irons or what?
    I do everything but hit them straight. But as you may remember, I think I have that mostly solved.

    I do hit some blocks, but mostly big draws and hooks. I have never played R flex shafts in a "real" set of irons. I can't help but think since I don't swing very hard and have a smooth transition, that maybe an R flex shaft would be better suited to me. Maybe I'll pick up a few yards and the shots will "feel" better. I pretty much take 3/4 swings with all my irons so I don't really "load" the shaft.


    I think next time I'm in Golf Town I'm going to grab the same club in R and S flex and see what happens.
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    I do everything but hit them straight. But as you may remember, I think I have that mostly solved.

    I do hit some blocks, but mostly big draws and hooks. I have never played R flex shafts in a "real" set of irons. I can't help but think since I don't swing very hard and have a smooth transition, that maybe an R flex shaft would be better suited to me. Maybe I'll pick up a few yards and the shots will "feel" better. I pretty much take 3/4 swings with all my irons so I don't really "load" the shaft.


    I think next time I'm in Golf Town I'm going to grab the same club in R and S flex and see what happens.
    ask prostatus. he's a professional club fitter, & he'll have you hitting 220yd soft draws in no time with that 8 iron.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    http://www.golftown.com/gtcommerce/s...rt=DESC&Page=4



    GolfSmith only has FST shafts that cost 40.00 indv. Nooo thank you.

    Try golfworks, they have them on their site. Golfsmith only has them in their clubmaker catalog at this point. FST pro 115's are less than $7 a piece and are one of the best steel shafts on the market imo.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Try golfworks, they have them on their site. Golfsmith only has them in their clubmaker catalog at this point. FST pro 115's are less than $7 a piece and are one of the best steel shafts on the market imo.
    Stepless?!
    .370 tip!?
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    Thanks for the advice Lyle. Like DM I personally get the hooks more with softer shafts, but could the weight of the shaft also have some effect? I note that the shafts which don't hook for me are not only stiffer, but usually a bit heavier. I just get my tempo out a bit with light shafts and lose feel for where the clubhead is during the swing.

    What's your take on the importance weight in shafts?

    BJ, Pro Status/Stroke Guru is conspicuous by his absence form this thread since being reemed by Brian.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    joel

    yes and yes

  45. #45
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    nah

    i honestly feel weight is one of the most important aspects of shaft fitting. fast tempo players will always do better with heavier shafts. try an 85-95g driver shaft in a flex softer than you normally use. i bet you like it.

    sorry for the lack of punctuation but i am holding jr. and typing one handed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    joel

    yes and yes

    MP60's are 355.

    That wont fit..right...?
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

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    Thanks Lyle, if the new shaft is too hard to handle I might try for a softer flex. I do like the driver shaft weight up around 75 grams or higher. I honestly didn't know shafts got up to 85 to 95 grams, but I am open to the idea of a shaft that weight.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    MP60's are 355.

    That wont fit..right...?
    Bore them out. Opens up a whole lot more options for fitting, especially when it comes to frequency matching to a set slope. I usually bore out all my .355 iron sets to accept .370 shafts. The consistency of using the .370 shafts is night and day difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Bore them out. Opens up a whole lot more options for fitting, especially when it comes to frequency matching to a set slope. I usually bore out all my .355 iron sets to accept .370 shafts. The consistency of using the .370 shafts is night and day difference.
    wouldn't that add stiffness to his ladies' R300 shafts?
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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    Why would it add stiffness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    Then you are, indeed, a great guru on club fitting. Just what I'd expect for a chain store "clubfitter." A true know-nothing who is happy to offer an opinion in order to share your ignorance.

    If you don't know anything about proper shaft fitting, why do you offer advice to strangers on this board?
    LOL...............To be honest bro Im no shaft guru and people who try to figure too much about a shaft when they cant even break par with the ones they have will IMO always be an average stick. But i am a stroke guru and understand and know quite a bit when it comes to playing this game from the talent and ability point of view. I never said I was the best fitter in the world, or will I ever in my life be ignorant. I like the part where you said a true know nothing , that cracks me up dorkman.

    I do know one thing and that is i know what is best for me when it comes to golf and equipment. And if you read my post more you would realize that I said I offer my usually silent opinion on this forum. Im not much of a talker , Id rather let my clubs run the show. Ive noticed the ones with the biggest mouths usually suk alot of co. ck...or just cant figure out a way to break 80-90, and run there mouths to disguise the fact that they are and always will be below average as a golfer. I think you should learn how to find the fairway first before ever wanting to know how or what shaft is best for you. Or even just learning how to hit a fkn SW before ever putting a LW in your bag. Again.........simple minded people do simple minded things and then do the same thing over and over again and wonder why things havent gotten better.
    A.K.A StrokeGuru

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    Someone throw Pro Status a life preserver. He's drowning in his own bull shitt again.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    http://www.golftown.com/gtcommerce/s...rt=DESC&Page=4



    GolfSmith only has FST shafts that cost 40.00 indv. Nooo thank you.
    Freaking Golfsmith is way too expensive on their ****. I can "usually" find what I want on ebay at cheaper prices. Inevitably though, I will run across something I need and the only place I can buy it is Golfsmith. I sure wish they were not so proud of their components.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Bore them out. Opens up a whole lot more options for fitting, especially when it comes to frequency matching to a set slope. I usually bore out all my .355 iron sets to accept .370 shafts. The consistency of using the .370 shafts is night and day difference.
    Now were in the puck do you think I'm going to find someone that can do that, and do a good job at it? You do remember were I live, don't you?

    I may leave the S300's in there for now, as my swing is going to go through some changes, and I plan to bulk up before April rolls around.

    I think I'd be happier getting 355 shafts, that way I didn't have to phuck around again if I hated the 370 shafts. Re gripping is about the extent of my club building knowledge.
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Now were in the puck do you think I'm going to find someone that can do that, and do a good job at it? You do remember were I live, don't you?

    I may leave the S300's in there for now, as my swing is going to go through some changes, and I plan to bulk up before April rolls around.

    I think I'd be happier getting 355 shafts, that way I didn't have to phuck around again if I hated the 370 shafts. Re gripping is about the extent of my club building knowledge.
    So you're only slightly more knowledgeable than Pro Status.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    So you're only slightly more knowledgeable than Pro Status.

    Guess so..I'm not going to sit here and lie.
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    So you're only slightly more knowledgeable than Pro Status.
    Ehhhh........Fk you buddy... Off the record.................I DONT KNOW SH.IT............................. ACCORDING TO GR . Im just a chain store club repair guy thats a know nothing ignorant mfr. Sorry guys I just look, i mean type like this while sitting on the toilet. Maybe if I had NAH or LyleGs 20 yr subscription to Golf Digest I would know a little something.
    Last edited by ProStatus; 01-19-2009 at 07:56 PM.
    A.K.A StrokeGuru

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Guess so..I'm not going to sit here and lie.
    With your credentials you could probably get a job at Dicks as a senior clubfitter, but you be a littl overqualified.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProStatus
    Ehhhh........Fk you buddy... Off the record.................I DONT KNOW SH.IT............................. ACCORDING TO GR. Im just a chain store club repair guy thats a know nothing ignorant mfr. Sorry guys I just look, i mean type like this while sitting on the toilet. Maybe if I had NAH or LyleGs 20 yr subscription to Golf Digest I would know a little something.
    At least we've got that straight.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    Why would it add stiffness?
    i read on either grafalloy or graphite design's website that bore-thru heads (like titleist & callaway) add stiffness to the shaft flex.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Now were in the puck do you think I'm going to find someone that can do that, and do a good job at it? You do remember were I live, don't you?
    You're not able to leave the trailer park?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    i read on either grafalloy or graphite design's website that bore-thru heads (like titleist & callaway) add stiffness to the shaft flex.
    Logic would suggest that with borethru shafts more of the tip would be used in the fitting, possibly have the same effect as tipping the shaft. I would think that shaft manufacturers would allow for this with a longer tip section on bore thru shafts, but maybe not.

    But you should probably PM Pro Status just to be sure.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    I wouldn't bother I think he shiat what brains he has left out on the last post.

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    If were talking about duck hooks, thats my bad miss with the driver. I always put it down to 1. staying on the back foot and not getting my weight transfer correct (timing) through impact. 2. having a pretty dominant right hand which always wants to hit the shot. This dominant right hand I always equated with the reason I often have a problem pulling those 4 footers. Are these theories correct or just misinformed rubbish?
    Cobra ZL 9.5 Stock stiff.Sonartec SS 3.5 14*Sonartec HB-001 21* Cally Diablo Forged 4-6 nippons, 2013 x forged 7-pw pxi 5.5 TM rac 50/6 gw. Fourteen MT-28 54 & 58 S400 Daddy Long Legs 35"TM Lethal

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProStatus
    Ehhhh........Fk you buddy... Off the record.................I DONT KNOW SH.IT............................. ACCORDING TO GR . Im just a chain store club repair guy thats a know nothing ignorant mfr. Sorry guys I just look, i mean type like this while sitting on the toilet. Maybe if I had NAH or LyleGs 20 yr subscription to Golf Digest I would know a little something.
    Kudos for at least being honest enough to admit it......
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    i read on either grafalloy or graphite design's website that bore-thru heads (like titleist & callaway) add stiffness to the shaft flex.

    You dont make them the irons bore through, you simply ream (bore) the hosel so that it accepts a .370 shaft diameter instead of the .355 taper. You are making the hosel slightly wider, not deeper.

    As for bore throughs, some shafts like the GD's are designed with 2 extra inches of tip section specifically for BT heads. This is why many DIYers say GD shafts are noodles. They install them in normal depth bore heads but dont trim the addition 2 inches of the shaft before they install it as per GD's website. So they end up with a shaft with a brutally soft tip section.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    i am holding jr. and typing one handed.
    This meant an entirely different thing just 1 month ago.
    fred3 antagonizer
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    *Plus many more accolades that are the cause of jealousy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    This meant an entirely different thing just 1 month ago.
    Are you so sure it doesn't mean the same thing today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    This meant an entirely different thing just 1 month ago.
    That is pure gold here folks. Thumbs up!

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    On one, I don't have a weight transfer issue but I do have a tendency to get my hands ahead of my body on the start of my downswing and my body is playing catch-up. This will lead to my shoulders sometimes being closed at impact and either get a push or my hands will correct for a push-draw. The big hook comes into play when the shoulder/body square but my hands are still correcting. This will lead to a straight draw or the dreaded straight-duck,I'm-going to break this f'ing driver,-hook.
    I've never had your #2 because I'm a RH playing LH. The LH is always along for a ride until well past impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    This meant an entirely different thing just 1 month ago.
    In the lead for best post of 2009.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    You dont make them the irons bore through, you simply ream (bore) the hosel so that it accepts a .370 shaft diameter instead of the .355 taper. You are making the hosel slightly wider, not deeper.

    As for bore throughs, some shafts like the GD's are designed with 2 extra inches of tip section specifically for BT heads. This is why many DIYers say GD shafts are noodles. They install them in normal depth bore heads but dont trim the addition 2 inches of the shaft before they install it as per GD's website. So they end up with a shaft with a brutally soft tip section.
    If untipped and not inserted in a bore through hosel, the YS-6 shafts are particularly notorious in this regard.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    You dont make them the irons bore through, you simply ream (bore) the hosel so that it accepts a .370 shaft diameter instead of the .355 taper. You are making the hosel slightly wider, not deeper.

    As for bore throughs, some shafts like the GD's are designed with 2 extra inches of tip section specifically for BT heads. This is why many DIYers say GD shafts are noodles. They install them in normal depth bore heads but dont trim the addition 2 inches of the shaft before they install it as per GD's website. So they end up with a shaft with a brutally soft tip section.
    i have read that this is why Mitsubishi makes a the 5xct and the 4"gt... the 4"gt is for borethrough heads... and the 5xct is the normal shaft...
    is this true???

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    Pingman, I read the only difference between the 5xct and the 4"gt is just one is straight from Mitsubishi Rayon and the other is from a manufactuer.
    2-0-1 in GR stroke play

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mward2002
    Pingman, I read the only difference between the 5xct and the 4"gt is just one is straight from Mitsubishi Rayon and the other is from a manufacturer.
    Its the parallel tip section that is different in the two versions. One is a 5 inch PT one 4.
    I would assume the 5 inch PT shaft is designed for the borethrough heads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyleG
    nah

    i honestly feel weight is one of the most important aspects of shaft fitting. fast tempo players will always do better with heavier shafts. try an 85-95g driver shaft in a flex softer than you normally use. i bet you like it.

    sorry for the lack of punctuation but i am holding jr. and typing one handed.
    Spot on about weight Lyle. Took my driver out today with the new Pershing 75 stiff (79 grams) and had the best driving day in recent memory. Not only did the shaft perform beter than my old one, I could actually feel myself swinging better with the heavier shaft. My timing and tempo was just better with the heavier shaft, and the extra weight helped me release and get right through impact. I was finishing every drive with all my weight over a firm left side, which with a lighter shaft someitmes doesn't happen as I just lose the feeling of where the clubhead and lose my rhythm. The shaft itself performed great too. It gave a higher launch than I imagined but seemed to fly further and still roll. I was hitting at least as far as with the VS Proto 65 R in it but much more accurately and with a consistent flight (didn't have to guess whether it would go fade, straight or draw, just straight or slight fade). Another good thing was that I could fly it over trees on a couple of doglegs that I couldn't with the old shaft. All in all I am very impressed with this shaft.

    I honestly believe the myth that a super light shaft will lead to increased clubhead speed and more distance is bogus. It might \increase clubhead speed on a launch monitor, but in real play on the course it will mess your rhythm and stop you from consistently hitting it in the sweetspot. With my old shaft I would get the occasional monster down the middle, but no consistent distance like I did today.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Spot on about weight Lyle. Took my driver out today with the new Pershing 75 stiff (79 grams) and had the best driving day in recent memory. Not only did the shaft perform beter than my old one, I could actually feel myself swinging better with the heavier shaft. My timing and tempo was just better with the heavier shaft, and the extra weight helped me release and get right through impact. I was finishing every drive with all my weight over a firm left side, which with a lighter shaft someitmes doesn't happen as I just lose the feeling of where the clubhead and lose my rhythm. The shaft itself performed great too. It gave a higher launch than I imagined but seemed to fly further and still roll. I was hitting at least as far as with the VS Proto 65 R in it but much more accurately and with a consistent flight (didn't have to guess whether it would go fade, straight or draw, just straight or slight fade). Another good thing was that I could fly it over trees on a couple of doglegs that I couldn't with the old shaft. All in all I am very impressed with this shaft.

    I honestly believe the myth that a super light shaft will lead to increased clubhead speed and more distance is bogus. It might \increase clubhead speed on a launch monitor, but in real play on the course it will mess your rhythm and stop you from consistently hitting it in the sweetspot. With my old shaft I would get the occasional monster down the middle, but no consistent distance like I did today.
    That's been my experience, too. A light shaft can make a really long shot, but it relies nearly entirely on motor memory, because I can't really sense where the clubhead is nearly as easily as a heavier (or at least heavier swingweight) shaft. It is far easier for me to make good consistent contact with a heavier shaft. I've tried 50 gram, 46" shafts before, and it is truly a feast or famine proposition on the teebox.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

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