Serious question about irons?

[Belly]

I am looking for some clarity on a dilemma a few friends and I discussing. One of the 4 guys who I regularly play with has done the unspeakable he switched from Cleveland CG Red irons (more of a players club) to Nike SUMO irons (super GI).

He has shaved 5 strokes since the switch he now plays to an 11, hitting more greens and getting closer to the pin therefore cutting down on 3 putts. He got them around Christmas and didnt tell us, he mentioned he got some new Nike irons but I assumed it would have been the CCI's. So he hasnt had much play with them due to the cold weather so tis adds to the dilemma of how quickly they improved his game.

It got us discussing the merits of the super Gi club and would the midcapper 8-14 benefit from getting the SGI paddles and dropping their scores? I have worked hard to get to a 9 and don’t work the ball, I got my X Forged for the feel and to strive to hit better shots but hell 5 strokes is pretty tempting!!!!!.

Please talk some sense into me before I do something stupid like buying a set of SGI paddles??????

[dorkman53]

Not that what my experience is will necessarily benefit you, but I have just made the transition from a "player's cavity back" set 5-PW with 3 and 4 hybrids to a mixed set with "player's muscle cavities" in the 4-6 irons, and "muscle cavities" for the 7-PW, with only a 3 hybrid. I've only had 3 rounds and a few practice sessions with them, but I am finding that my dispersion is decreasing, and I expect to improve a stroke or two by late summer. If you're already around a 10 index, you aren't going to get 5 strokes improvement simply by changing clubs, no matter WHAT you might begin using. The lower the starting index, the harder it is to take off strokes, proportionately. Think of a percentage improvement in index, rather than an absolute number, and it is less discouraging and more realistic.

[pingman360]

Not that what my experience is will necessarily benefit you, but I have just made the transition from a "player's cavity back" set 5-PW with 3 and 4 hybrids to a mixed set with "player's muscle cavities" in the 4-6 irons, and "muscle cavities" for the 7-PW, with only a 3 hybrid. I've only had 3 rounds and a few practice sessions with them, but I am finding that my dispersion is decreasing, and I expect to improve a stroke or two by late summer. If you're already around a 10 index, you aren't going to get 5 strokes improvement simply by changing clubs, no matter WHAT you might begin using. The lower the starting index, the harder it is to take off strokes, proportionately. Think of a percentage improvement in index, rather than an absolute number, and it is less discouraging and more realistic.

yeah i agree with DM here... they may not lower your cap by any but then again they may lower it a stroke or two... the thing is if you feel like some of your mis-hits are giving away shots then it may be a good idea to switch...

[Kiwi Player]

Having come down from about 15-16 at the start of summer to about 11-12 handicap now I can say that it is quite easy to drop that many shots quickly just through gaining confidence in your game from a few good rounds. This can lead to greater consistency and posting lower scores becomes routine.

It's possible that your buddy is just going through a purple patch or honeymoon stage with his new irons that has lead to an increase in confidence and consequently he is hitting the ball better. It is probably a combination of that confidence combined with the fact he loves his new irons. Maybe that SGI style just suits his swing better too?

I would think trying the irons out yourself is the only way you will really know if they will work the same for you. But as Dorkman has pointed out. Shaving 5 strokes off a 16 handicap is a lot easier than shaving 5 shots off a 9.

[bjdrivers]

belly your friend is doing himself a disservice, he just doesn't know it yet. he's simply found clubs that are disguising his swing flaws. he might have cut some strokes, but he won't go any further. you should find you some blades and use them. they will be a teaching aid & you will ingrain a much better swing enabling you to beat your chopper SGI paddle hacking friend.

[SoonerBS]

belly your friend is doing himself a disservice, he just doesn't know it yet. he's simply found clubs that are disguising his swing flaws. he might have cut some strokes, but he won't go any further. you should find you some blades and use them. they will be a teaching aid & you will ingrain a much better swing enabling you to beat your chopper SGI paddle hacking friend.

[Not a hacker]

Belly,

It is confusing that your friend has dropped 5 strokes instead of the customary GR bench mark of 4 shots. This anomoly has thrown me and I don't know quite what to say.

[Belly]

Belly,

It is confusing that your friend has dropped 5 strokes instead of the customary GR bench mark of 4 shots. This anomoly has thrown me and I don't know quite what to say.

I guess he is an over achiever!

[jamesll9]

I notice some touring pros play with Ping Zing 2's. Maybe they have already grooved a great swing and now want that extra bit of forgiveness. Any thoughts?

[Kiwi Player]

Belly,

It is confusing that your friend has dropped 5 strokes instead of the customary GR bench mark of 4 shots. This anomoly has thrown me and I don't know quite what to say.

NAH you should know that you only drop 4 strokes when you get GFF blades.

When you get cast SGI POS CB Shovels the sky is the limit.

[Stateman]

Here is the deal. Anyone who will tell you that you need blades to learn to play the game better is not only insane, but they normally care more about how their bag looks then how they play. Most people could knock a few strokes off their game by playing clubs that will offer more forgiveness. Even if you are a great ball striker you can still benefit from a cavity on those few shots a round that are mishits. And the average golfer has MORE than a few of those a round. I just recently made the switch from blades to a full cavity back and while I was still shooting high 70's with blades, I am enjoying the game more now. Even with my scores I still have PLENTY of shots in a round that would have been helped by a cavity.

I know, I know.. Everyone has an opinion. Well here is something that is not opinion, this is FACT. If you look at the CURRENT top 10 on the pga tour (for the fed ex points). NOT ONE OF THEM PLAYS A TRUE BLADE. They ALL have some sort of cavity whether it be a players cavity or some even play a full cavity. You can look up the players bags at this site. http://www.thegolfchannel.com/whats-...-championship/

Do yourself a favor and get irons that are suited for your game and handicap. If you really thing that hitting a harder club will help your game then I would suggest you buy 3 blades.. 5-7irons and use them on the range ONLY.

[bjdrivers]

Here is the deal. Anyone who will tell you that you need blades to learn to play the game better is not only insane, but they normally care more about how their bag looks then how they play. Most people could knock a few strokes off their game by playing clubs that will offer more forgiveness. Even if you are a great ball striker you can still benefit from a cavity on those few shots a round that are mishits. And the average golfer has MORE than a few of those a round. I just recently made the switch from blades to a full cavity back and while I was still shooting high 70's with blades, I am enjoying the game more now. Even with my scores I still have PLENTY of shots in a round that would have been helped by a cavity.

I know, I know.. Everyone has an opinion. Well here is something that is not opinion, this is FACT. If you look at the CURRENT top 10 on the pga tour (for the fed ex points). NOT ONE OF THEM PLAYS A TRUE BLADE. They ALL have some sort of cavity whether it be a players cavity or some even play a full cavity. You can look up the players bags at this site. http://www.thegolfchannel.com/whats-...-championship/

Do yourself a favor and get irons that are suited for your game and handicap. If you really thing that hitting a harder club will help your game then I would suggest you buy 3 blades.. 5-7irons and use them on the range ONLY.

www.shottalk.com add that site to your favorites and setup an account. they could use a fine chap like yourself.

[The Purist]

[QUOTE=Stateman] Well here is something that is not opinion, this is FACT. If you look at the CURRENT top 10 on the pga tour (for the fed ex points). NOT ONE OF THEM PLAYS A TRUE BLADE. They ALL have some sort of cavity whether it be a players cavity or some even play a full cavity.QUOTE]

Well #1 on that list is Ogilvy, and he play's Cobra's most blade like offering; the pro MB...I don't really see a cavity on those irons. The #1 ranked player in the world for the last 10 years plays blades...you know...Tiger.

[Stateman]

Tiger is certainly in the minority with the clubs he plays. I don't care that it is Cobra's most "BLADE LIKE" offering. It still HAS a cavity to it, no matter how small. MB (muscle back) is just a fancy way of saying "small pro cavity". But hey, we should all play blades like Tiger. I mean, don't we all know how to attack a pin from 210 out moving the ball right to left, in a cross wind while keeping the ball low. We all have that shot right. LOL

[collegegolfer]

I agree Stateman. I have a set of Australian blades. I love 'em. But I normally play a player's cavity. The offset and clubhead size are very similar, the top line is thicker on the cavity, but overall I just find the players cavity works better for me. Nothing greater than a well-struck blade, but the grooves were pretty worn, I got sick of checking/adjusting the loft and lie all the time and just wanted something I didn't have to worry about. I really don't find them THAT much different, aside from emotional/mental differences. The one thing I did do with the blades was adjust the lie angle based on how I hit the clubs from longer to shorter irons. That was a plus. But the last set I ordered of player's cavities I had the factory do it for me and checked to make sure they were correct when I got them. And they were!

With that said, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between my players cavity and the Callaways my dad plays. He's old and just looking to hit the ball around so I told him to get rid of his impossible to hit old blades and buy some shovels. It took a lot of poking and prodding but he is now loving his switch. The difference...he's not looking to improve and just enjoys playing when his body allows him to. If you're looking to improve, I wouldn't recommend anything "worse" than a player's cavity.

[Stateman]

If you're looking to improve, I wouldn't recommend anything "worse" than a player's cavity.

I couldn't agree more with that statement. There is nothing wrong with getting less than what you need to learn, but also with getting a little help. There is just no need for the average golfer to play blades. There are far to many other GREAT options out there that will help you get better and offer you forgiveness as well.

[connecticutter]

I agree with collegegolfer. I have an old set of Hogan Apex blades, but now play a player's cavity back. They perform in a relatively similar fashion. The player's cavity is a little more forgiving, but still provides feedback and offers workability. I can still fade and draw them most of the time. I think a better question than blade or cavity back is forged or cast.

It isn't unheard of to hear about good golfers shaving off a few strokes going to a set of GI irons and woods. They're easier to hit. They are limited though, as in a reduced ability to work the ball. If you play once or twice a month, the GI sets are probably ideal. If you are looking to up your game to the next level, get some forged clubs whether it is a players cavity or a blade.

[Pky6471]

Hate to say it... but so much for "blades vs CB" ... Just play with the set that gives you lowest scores, period

[Omen2]

tiger is the most dominant player on tour, by a large margin. he has always used blades and has never tried to bag forgiveness....

the only player to ever take the number one spot from him was not a 20 -30 year old with "a small pro cavity" but a 40 year old that plays true blades and does not bag forgiveness....

coincidence? I think not.

shottalk.com caters to the weaker minded masses. feel free to join today as BJ has already suggested.

Omen, Blades only = constant improvement.

[Larryrsf]

I notice some touring pros play with Ping Zing 2's. Maybe they have already grooved a great swing and now want that extra bit of forgiveness. Any thoughts?

Duh, the smart ones know that neither the clubhead type nor the shaft flex characteristics make any difference--except that it takes noticeably less effort to accurately hit a ball a given distance when the club's weight is concentrated in the head--and not the shaft. So smart golfers take a dozen clubs to a range and try them one after the other, same target, same lie. Most choose graphite shafts and OS CB heads. Why beat yourself up? Pavin won the US Open with 1995 Cleveland VAS offset CB OS, graphite shafts. He hit the ball straight and long enough. Those clubs are all over eBay for $29. You could probably get it for less!

Handicap from 10 to 5 is nearly all short game--simply chipping or pitching it closer (and to a place under the hole) so we can putt uphill for birdie several times per round. Smart golfers are reading the green from 200 yards out. Even from the tee they are planning the best drive location so their approach can more likely place the ball for a straight uphill putt. Do that 18 times and you will improve MORE than 5 strokes. (regardless of which irons you play!) ha

From what I see on the range, most amateurs should be working to use their irons correctly. With a 6i, a good golfer can hit a ball teed an inch high and take a shallow divot 6" in front of the ball. If you can't do that, you are decelerating at impact-and mishitting most balls. No wonder you miss the targets. A teaching pro will show you how to properly POST on your front foot before you downswing-- which shifts your swing center up beside or even slightly in front of the ball-- THEN you can hit down on it and trap it like the big boys do. Most amateurs miss because of their swing, not their clubs.

Larry

[Stateman]

tiger is the most dominant player on tour, by a large margin. he has always used blades and has never tried to bag forgiveness....

the only player to ever take the number one spot from him was not a 20 -30 year old with "a small pro cavity" but a 40 year old that plays true blades and does not bag forgiveness....

coincidence? I think not.

shottalk.com caters to the weaker minded masses. feel free to join today as BJ has already suggested.

Omen, Blades only = constant improvement.

Again, what is the common with those 2 golfers. THEY ARE PRO's. The PGA tour makes up .002% of the golfers in America. Think about that. So you mentioned 2 out of .002% that use blades. What does that tell you the average golfer should use? I am not saying that the average golfer isn't good enough to hit the ball in the sweet spot. I am saying that we cannot hit it in the sweet spot often enough to warrant using them. Hey all you blade players, keep making your bags look pretty. I will take the little bit of forgiveness and make up for the looks with a lower score card.

[dorkman53]

Again, what is the common with those 2 golfers. THEY ARE PRO's. The PGA tour makes up .002% of the golfers in America. Think about that. So you mentioned 2 out of .002% that use blades. What does that tell you the average golfer should use? I am not saying that the average golfer isn't good enough to hit the ball in the sweet spot. I am saying that we cannot hit it in the sweet spot often enough to warrant using them. Hey all you blade players, keep making your bags look pretty. I will take the little bit of forgiveness and make up for the looks with a lower score card.

Save your breath. There are several people on this board who are impervious to all logic, and will never be convinced with a reasonable argument.

It is not enough for them to hold a far out of the mainstream opinion. They insist that everybody else must agree with them, or you must suffer the consequences. You and any non-approved clubs will be the subject of name calling and other forms of mature discussion. Any deviation from doctinaire ideology must be stamped out!! They attempt to hide their ignorance with bravado and dogmatic statements. "The truth is not in them."

Ignore them. They're hopeless, but they do like to stir things up; flaming and trolling.

[Larryrsf]

I don't see people recommending that they ask a teaching pro. Most of them are competent to look at your swing and tell you whether a different club type might be easier for you to hit--straight.

I would bet that nearly every one writing here could ask a pro about the difference between blades and CB, etc. and he would ignore the question and say, "take your stance...." And 30 minutes later he would be giving you drills you should to to fix your golf swing-- and NOTHING about which golf clubs to play. My point is that AFTER you have a fundamentally correct golf swing, AFTER you are hitting most fairways and greens, then you might start tinkering with trivia--which is which clubs to play.

First things first.

Larry

[collegegolfer]

I don't see people recommending that they ask a teaching pro. Most of them are competent to look at your swing and tell you whether a different club type might be easier for you to hit--straight.

I would bet that nearly every one writing here could ask a pro about the difference between blades and CB, etc. and he would ignore the question and say, "take your stance...." And 30 minutes later he would be giving you drills you should to to fix your golf swing-- and NOTHING about which golf clubs to play. My point is that AFTER you have a fundamentally correct golf swing, AFTER you are hitting most fairways and greens, then you might start tinkering with trivia--which is which clubs to play.

First things first.

Larry

Wow! Larry, this is the 1st post I've 100% agreed with. Still think you're a strange man with your "shaft flex doesn't matter" but I completely agree with this. I can't tell you how many people come to our course and I TRY to sell them lessons instead of new clubs. They'll ask about the new clubs out and I ask what they shoot. They'll say "between 90 and 110 or so. Not great, just want some new clubs because I hit some new ones and really liked them." I'll ask if they want to improve or want new clubs. They usually say, "improve" and I say, "$100 plus practicing is what it takes to improve. Clubs are about $500 and won't help you improve. Here's a lesson sheet. If you really want the clubs I'll work with you to find what you want, but I'd recommend lessons." Most go with the clubs and never improve.

PS- I bet most teaching pros would tell them to use a specific shaft flex as well. "You'd be better of with regular" or "you'd be better off with stiff." Just saying. Well, at least the 12 class A pros I know would. And the touring pro I know the best would as well. Just saying, but obviously you know more than them about shafts.......

[Larryrsf]

Wow! Larry, this is the 1st post I've 100% agreed with. Still think you're a strange man with your "shaft flex doesn't matter" but I completely agree with this. I can't tell you how many people come to our course and I TRY to sell them lessons instead of new clubs. They'll ask about the new clubs out and I ask what they shoot. They'll say "between 90 and 110 or so. Not great, just want some new clubs because I hit some new ones and really liked them." I'll ask if they want to improve or want new clubs. They usually say, "improve" and I say, "$100 plus practicing is what it takes to improve. Clubs are about $500 and won't help you improve. Here's a lesson sheet. If you really want the clubs I'll work with you to find what you want, but I'd recommend lessons." Most go with the clubs and never improve.

PS- I bet most teaching pros would tell them to use a specific shaft flex as well. "You'd be better of with regular" or "you'd be better off with stiff." Just saying. Well, at least the 12 class A pros I know would. And the touring pro I know the best would as well. Just saying, but obviously you know more than them about shafts.......

I was with my PGA pro today for an hour. I told him about this on-line debate and he just laughed. He said he has a TINY percentage of students who may be ready to discuss clubs. -- all the rest still have fundamental issues to resolve; i.e. they still can't return the clubhead to the ball correctly! Why do they worry about which clubheads and which shafts when their fundamentals are MILES away from a good golf swing???? They are still decelerating, hitting fat, topping the ball, bringing the clubhead from outside the target line, forced to use hand action, etc. Most are making errors to correct more fundamental errors-- How ludicrous is it for such players to be talking about club shafts or clubhead types?

Please. Take a lesson--learn that you may need several lessons and hours of drills and range time if you are serious about developing a good golf swing. Learn that any old 6i will work just fine. Learn what Lee Trevino said was true, "I can beat you with a coke bottle taped to a stick!"

Larry

[jamesll9]

The club pro I work with at our golf shop does not recommend blades to ANYONE. He plays cavity backs and recommends game improvement clubs to all of our customers. Even a forged players cavity is not forgiving enough for most people, according to him. Maybe you will hit 10 decent irons in a round with a game improvement club, 8 with a forged cavity and 5 with a blade. Why settle for 5 or even 8 if you can hit 10?

[No_Idea]

Okay. Why not Cleveland Hybrid Irons instead of ordinary shovels? You will turn Pro in just days.

[dorkman53]

The club pro I work with at our golf shop does not recommend blades to ANYONE. He plays cavity backs and recommends game improvement clubs to all of our customers. Even a forged players cavity is not forgiving enough for most people, according to him. Maybe you will hit 10 decent irons in a round with a game improvement club, 8 with a forged cavity and 5 with a blade. Why settle for 5 or even 8 if you can hit 10?

Yes, but that's just the opinion of someone who is in the golf business full time. You'd take his word over an anonymous self-appointed expert on an internet board? Fool!!

[idriveahonda]

Any person can benefit from proper clubfitting, and a more forgiving set of irons. Technology will continue to evolve, and make clubs that are more easy to hit.

I personally play Nike Forged Blades (circa 2000) and will never change. I have a set of 755's, and there is no comparison. I've hit my buddies 735's and the Z's, and the Nike's are so much more comfortable.

I'm looking at the new TaylorMade Smoke MB Tour's, because I want to get a new set, completely refitted, and get some new technology in the shafts. I love the Nike's, but it's about time to upgrade.

It is true though, that unless you have the "basics" or a repeatable move to the ball, no matter what clubs you get, you won't see the improvements you hope to see.

[Not a hacker]

I was with my PGA pro today for an hour. I told him about this on-line debate and he just laughed. He said he has a TINY percentage of students who may be ready to discuss clubs. -- all the rest still have fundamental issues to resolve; i.e. they still can't return the clubhead to the ball correctly! Why do they worry about which clubheads and which shafts when their fundamentals are MILES away from a good golf swing???? They are still decelerating, hitting fat, topping the ball, bringing the clubhead from outside the target line, forced to use hand action, etc. Most are making errors to correct more fundamental errors-- How ludicrous is it for such players to be talking about club shafts or clubhead types?

Please. Take a lesson--learn that you may need several lessons and hours of drills and range time if you are serious about developing a good golf swing. Learn that any old 6i will work just fine. Learn what Lee Trevino said was true, "I can beat you with a coke bottle taped to a stick!"

Larry

Trevino also said : "I'll hire a teacher when I find one who can beat me". Is that true as well Larry?

[Not a hacker]

There is one interesting point that hasn't been raised in this equipment debate about the so called improvement these cast POS SGI graphite shafted gay hacker shovels bring the 'average' golfer. In the last twenty or so years the equipment landscape ahs gone form persimmon or small headed metal woods, wound balata balls, and predominantly forged blades in the irons. You would think, by all the crap people like Larry go on with on this board, that all the equipment, lessons, swingmaster blah blah benefits now available would make this game much easier than it used to be in the 'bad old days' of forged blades and wound balls. Funnily enough, the average golf handicap is the same now as it was 20 years ago. No 'four shots lower'. No nothing.

What does that tell all you numnuts out there like Larry and his new best friend Statesman?

[Not a hacker]

Yes, but that's just the opinion of someone who is in the golf business full time. You'd take his word over an anonymous self-appointed expert on an internet board? Fool!!

And therefore gets his income from selling the new stuff. No vested interest there at all DM. Funnily enough this same pro would just happen to stock the best line of equipment at the best prices, and would be able to fit anyone perfectly with the exact same set of clubs no matter what their ability or body shape. Wake up and smell the coffe fellas.

[collegegolfer]

I was with my PGA pro today for an hour. I told him about this on-line debate and he just laughed. He said he has a TINY percentage of students who may be ready to discuss clubs. -- all the rest still have fundamental issues to resolve; i.e. they still can't return the clubhead to the ball correctly! Why do they worry about which clubheads and which shafts when their fundamentals are MILES away from a good golf swing???? They are still decelerating, hitting fat, topping the ball, bringing the clubhead from outside the target line, forced to use hand action, etc. Most are making errors to correct more fundamental errors-- How ludicrous is it for such players to be talking about club shafts or clubhead types?

Please. Take a lesson--learn that you may need several lessons and hours of drills and range time if you are serious about developing a good golf swing. Learn that any old 6i will work just fine. Learn what Lee Trevino said was true, "I can beat you with a coke bottle taped to a stick!"

Larry

Again, I agree. Most people need to work on swings and not worry about new clubs. With that said, you seem to be softening on your shaft stance. Going from shafts make no difference to shafts are the last thing to worry about for most golfers. I would have to mostly agree with the latter statement. It's good you could soften your statement into a more reasonable position. I might be able to respect you more now.

[Not a hacker]

Again, I agree. Most people need to work on swings and not worry about new clubs. With that said, you seem to be softening on your shaft stance. Going from shafts make no difference to shafts are the last thing to worry about for most golfers. I would have to mostly agree with the latter statement. It's good you could soften your statement into a more reasonable position. I might be able to respect you more now.

Woop whoop whoop whoop!!!!! Gaydar alert. Warning warning. Danger.

[dorkman53]

And therefore gets his income from selling the new stuff. No vested interest there at all DM. Funnily enough this same pro would just happen to stock the best line of equipment at the best prices, and would be able to fit anyone perfectly with the exact same set of clubs no matter what their ability or body shape. Wake up and smell the coffe fellas.

I promise to wake up and smell the "coffe" (sic)

A REPUTABLE professional would not try to get you into equipment not right for you. Obviously, there is a potential conflict of interest, but if you are dealing with a person of reasonable integrity, they would be more interested in your long term satisfaction and repeat business, than a short term sale. A happy customer will refer his friends. An unhappy customer wil tell EVERYBODY about his bad experience. I actually know ethical golf pros. Perhaps you don't. ( I am NOT talking about a salesperson at a Golf Shop; I'm talking about a true teaching pro.)

I would trust my chances with an ethical clubfitter over the advice of some ignorant, functionally illiterate anonymous person on the internet who is quick to advise equipment without any knowledge of that person's needs, whatsoever.

Obviously, one has to assess the professional to see if he or she seems honest and interested in your welfare or his. But that is part of any financial transaction, isn't it? Decisions about moral integrity are a part of life, and golf equipment is no exception. You have to use your head, which may be difficult for you.

[Larryrsf]

Here is the deal. Anyone who will tell you that you need blades to learn to play the game better is not only insane, but they normally care more about how their bag looks then how they play. Most people could knock a few strokes off their game by playing clubs that will offer more forgiveness. Even if you are a great ball striker you can still benefit from a cavity on those few shots a round that are mishits. And the average golfer has MORE than a few of those a round. I just recently made the switch from blades to a full cavity back and while I was still shooting high 70's with blades, I am enjoying the game more now. Even with my scores I still have PLENTY of shots in a round that would have been helped by a cavity.

I know, I know.. Everyone has an opinion. Well here is something that is not opinion, this is FACT. If you look at the CURRENT top 10 on the pga tour (for the fed ex points). NOT ONE OF THEM PLAYS A TRUE BLADE. They ALL have some sort of cavity whether it be a players cavity or some even play a full cavity. You can look up the players bags at this site. http://www.thegolfchannel.com/whats-...-championship/

Do yourself a favor and get irons that are suited for your game and handicap. If you really thing that hitting a harder club will help your game then I would suggest you buy 3 blades.. 5-7irons and use them on the range ONLY.

I agree.--- and strongly suggest that everyone take one or a series of lessons--you will get to see your swing on video--and hear it objectively evaluated by an expert. I strong suspect that nearly every amateur here who is earnestly posting about blades, "game improvement," etc. will be shocked to learn that the type of iron club or clubshaft he plays is the LEAST of his problems, that he has relatively serious defects, fundamental faults in his movement that make it impossible for him to return the clubhead to the ball crisply and accelerating.

Teaching pros find such talk about clubs by such golfers HILARIOUS!

So at the risk of being the butt of jokes by elite level golfers, first get a golf swing, then worry about which clubs to play. I would think that most here who saw their swing and learned how bad it really is---would be very ashamed to be out there with the most difficult possible irons to hit. They would be stifling a laugh.

I would MUCH rather do it the other way-- play scratch golf with clubs most amateurs would consider to be little more than trash-- such as those Cleveland VAS Graphite OS Cavity backs with a HUGE offset-- that Pavin won the US Open with. Now THAT would be fun-- to soundly beat a group of strangers playing $2000 fitted Mizunos -while playing trash from the $1 barrel! ha It would be like Lee Trevino breaking 90 on a championship course using an old glass Coke bottle taped to a stick.

Larry

[jamesll9]

In a perfect world, all golfers would work dilligently on their swings, take weekly lessons, etc. Most golfers play now and then and never practice. Giving them forgiving equipment is the best thing you can do for those types. I sold offset Cobra drivers recently to two of my buddies who can't break 100. All of a sudden, they were hitting straight drives and they were so thrilled! Isn't that what it is all about. Helping people have fun?

For those who really want to work on their games, I suggest they have a blade or two for the range to work on their swings, then play with game improvement irons. That way you get the best of both worlds. Practice with something that will help you correct your faults, then play with something that will forgive your slight misses.

If you have a swing like Tiger, then play with blades all of the time.

[collegegolfer]

"Teaching pros find such talk about clubs by such golfers HILARIOUS!"

You're correct Larry. I'm good friends with MANY teaching pros and was going to become one myself. But, right now, I've found (in my opinion) a better gig. After working at a course for 10 years part time in the summer these ARE the people we laugh about. The actual hacks who know they're hacks and love the game...no problem with them. The hack that asks about new clubs, buys them, washes them, and reverse pivots and doesn't clear his hips...he's the one we make fun of behind his back. There's "glamor man" and "(designer clothing name) hack" and "sup dudes?" guy, and "you're inside take off your shades" (aka YITOYS) guy, and "blades shanker" (guy that plays blades and also plays a shank at least twice a round) and KVC (King Vanity Capper)...and the names go on. I can't believe I'm agreeing with you Larry. With that said, once you're below a 10 shafts and clubs start making more of a difference. And, if you're buying a new set anyway, there's no harm in getting fit for them. Although if you're awful and a pro starts adjusting your setup the lie angle you just ordered could change drastically...

[LyleG]

Having seen your swing Larry I can safely say that clubs wont make a difference. At this point nothing other than a nice pair of comfy white lawn bowling shoes will.

[FreakOfNature]

In a perfect world, all golfers would work dilligently on their swings, take weekly lessons, etc. Most golfers play now and then and never practice. Giving them forgiving equipment is the best thing you can do for those types. I sold offset Cobra drivers recently to two of my buddies who can't break 100. All of a sudden, they were hitting straight drives and they were so thrilled! Isn't that what it is all about. Helping people have fun?

For those who really want to work on their games, I suggest they have a blade or two for the range to work on their swings, then play with game improvement irons. That way you get the best of both worlds. Practice with something that will help you correct your faults, then play with something that will forgive your slight misses.

If you have a swing like Tiger, then play with blades all of the time.

See James, the kicker is when they declare their intent to improve. That's a whole different type of problem requiring a markedly different solution.

If a player just wants to go out and have fun straight away - and maybe for once have a club (or set of clubs) that allows them to do this, then none of us blade playing/preaching purists will truly have any problem with that. We understand that this type of player is not looking to win a club championship or regional amateur title - they just want to impress their buddies, who are likely in the same boat as they are. Hell, I WAS that type of player just a few years ago. I'm all for this, because every once in awhile one of "those guys" will start having enough fun and enough success to want to learn how to play the game at a higher level than... bogey golf, for example.

When a player makes a public declaration to the board that they intend to improve their game - not just their SCORES in the short term - that's when you really start to hear the purists chime in with the "get as close to blades as you comfortably can, and work your way up" suggestions. It all makes sense if you take it in context - unfortunately some people are more interested in discrediting pertinent opinions than understanding the logic upon which those suggestions are founded - while purportedly themselves being great bastions of this so-called logic.

If you just want to play well as you are - go with the GI clubs and get out there and have some fun playing this great game. If you really wish to improve - get at least a minimal understanding or instruction of the fundamentals, and learn a proper grip and setup. Then go out and get some clubs which CHALLENGE you to improve (not the MOST difficult, but something just slightly over your head), and at the very least get a static fitting. You'll either start to make better swings and thus improve, or you'll start scoring worse. Hopefully you'll have enough ego to force yourself into learning how to get more out of less - which will increase your TRUE skill.



FON

[oldplayer]

See James, the kicker is when they declare their intent to improve. That's a whole different type of problem requiring a markedly different solution.

If a player just wants to go out and have fun straight away - and maybe for once have a club (or set of clubs) that allows them to do this, then none of us blade playing/preaching purists will truly have any problem with that. We understand that this type of player is not looking to win a club championship or regional amateur title - they just want to impress their buddies, who are likely in the same boat as they are. Hell, I WAS that type of player just a few years ago. I'm all for this, because every once in awhile one of "those guys" will start having enough fun and enough success to want to learn how to play the game at a higher level than... bogey golf, for example.

When a player makes a public declaration to the board that they intend to improve their game - not just their SCORES in the short term - that's when you really start to hear the purists chime in with the "get as close to blades as you comfortably can, and work your way up" suggestions. It all makes sense if you take it in context - unfortunately some people are more interested in discrediting pertinent opinions than understanding the logic upon which those suggestions are founded - while purportedly themselves being great bastions of this so-called logic.

If you just want to play well as you are - go with the GI clubs and get out there and have some fun playing this great game. If you really wish to improve - get at least a minimal understanding or instruction of the fundamentals, and learn a proper grip and setup. Then go out and get some clubs which CHALLENGE you to improve (not the MOST difficult, but something just slightly over your head), and at the very least get a static fitting. You'll either start to make better swings and thus improve, or you'll start scoring worse. Hopefully you'll have enough ego to force yourself into learning how to get more out of less - which will increase your TRUE skill.



FON

Great post FON.
Of course I think it's great because I agree completely.
If any task in life is embarked upon, having the correct tools makes the task not only achievable but also enjoyable.