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  1. #1

    I'm a Beginner: Tell Me Which of These to Buy

    Hey, I've only played golf a handful of times but this next year I plan on getting out a lot more. Considering that I generally suck (and need a very forgiving club), which of these (lightly used iron shaft) sets of irons do you think would be the best deal for me?

    Taylormade Rac OS irons (3 - PW) for $200
    Mizuno T-Zoid true irons (1-9, PW and SW) for $290
    Callaway X-14 (4 - PW) for $325 (includes bag and Cleveland SW)
    Callaway Big Bertha X-12 (4 - SW) for $200

    From the reviews I've read, Mizuno is the best reviewed but not exactly a beginner club. Is this right? I'm leaning right now towards the X-12 set.

    Any help or advice is really appreciated!

  2. #2
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    X-12 is a good set , Callaway BB 2002 is also a good set and forgiving , just like X-16
    I don't play Mizuno, but some swears by Mizuno... Buy the one that enjoy first, stay away from "blade" for now, UNLESS you are gifted

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    Surely you have somebody to turn to before strangers on an internet message board, no? From whom did you take your lessons?

    Any answer you get here will be simply pulled out of somebody's ass. None of us have seen you play. Ask your teacher.

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    I started getting serious about getting more game,5-6 years ago, found mizuno mx 23 irons, and nothing but buttery feeling when hit well, swinging with them was like a automatic transmission, perfectly weighted, somewhat forgiving, slightly oversize, no regrets playing mizunos.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick
    Surely you have somebody to turn to before strangers on an internet message board, no? From whom did you take your lessons?

    Any answer you get here will be simply pulled out of somebody's ass. None of us have seen you play. Ask your teacher.
    I didn't take lessons (plan on taking some soon though). I learned how to golf in gym class 10 years ago.

    I was really just looking for a general advice as to which set would be best for a beginner, and if any are a particularly good deal.

    Thanks for those who have commented.

  6. #6
    Danno, my manno,
    I have been playing for 4 years now and I am still a high handicap hack. (Except for on other golf sites where I am a scratch golfer)
    I am convinced that I would be a single digit if I had started with some forged blades. or Wilson fat-shafts.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    Danno, my manno,
    I have been playing for 4 years now and I am still a high handicap hack. (Except for on other golf sites where I am a scratch golfer)
    I am convinced that I would be a single digit if I had started with some forged blades. or Wilson fat-shafts.
    Uh, what are forged blades? I am a complete amateur and have no idea about golf terms.

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    ... and how much time do you have? Have you talked to NAH yet? The internet GFF guru

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno
    Uh, what are forged blades? I am a complete amateur and have no idea about golf terms.

    Go with the Mizuno T-Zoids then and start practicing . . . . .
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

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    The Callaways are very forgiving clubs

    I would try and hit all of them. Don't just hit them in the store, take them all out to the range and see which ones feel best to you. Every club is different for different people so for me to say one club is better than the other is not going to help you. They are all good clubs. You just have to pick which one will be the best for you

    Hope that helped
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno
    Hey, I've only played golf a handful of times but this next year I plan on getting out a lot more. Considering that I generally suck (and need a very forgiving club), which of these (lightly used iron shaft) sets of irons do you think would be the best deal for me?

    Taylormade Rac OS irons (3 - PW) for $200
    Mizuno T-Zoid true irons (1-9, PW and SW) for $290
    Callaway X-14 (4 - PW) for $325 (includes bag and Cleveland SW)
    Callaway Big Bertha X-12 (4 - SW) for $200

    From the reviews I've read, Mizuno is the best reviewed but not exactly a beginner club. Is this right? I'm leaning right now towards the X-12 set.

    Any help or advice is really appreciated!
    I would recommend any of the the following sets for you. The Mizuno's are definitely more of a players club and might prove tougher to hit. You want something more forgiving when you are just starting out. At those prices you can always upgrade later if you improve dramatically in your first season.

    But I'll tell you now that my dad owns a set of those Taylormades and plays to a 7 handicap so they are not just beginners clubs. He shot 74 with them a few months ago.

    Taylormade Rac OS irons (3 - PW) for $200
    Callaway X-14 (4 - PW) for $325 (includes bag and Cleveland SW)
    Callaway Big Bertha X-12 (4 - SW) for $200

    Good luck.

    Kiwi
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  12. #12
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    Surely you have somebody to turn to before strangers on an internet message board, no? From whom did you take your lessons?

    Any answer you get here will be simply pulled out of somebody's ass. None of us have seen you play. Ask your teacher.
    Nifty...dawg...we have some very knowledgeable asses on this forum.

    I played the RAC OS for a few years. They are very long (because of strong lofts) and forgiving on mishits, but they didn't help my game at all. I think they have way too much offset and the heads are too big (thick topline & wide sole). I believe these so called "game improvement" features can lead to a variety of swing compensations that can negatively effect your progress.

    I would definitely suggest the t-zoids from that list. Several people on these forums (myself included) believe that game improvement (GI) irons will benefit someone who already has a good swing more than they will help a beginner...I bet Kiwi's Dad learned to play and develop his swing with blades before ever moving to a GI iron.
    The views expressed by The Purist do not necessarily represent the views of The Purist. Any posts by the Purist should not be relied upon for truth or accuracy, and should be viewed at your own risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    X-12 is a good set , Callaway BB 2002 is also a good set and forgiving , just like X-16
    I don't play Mizuno, but some swears by Mizuno... Buy the one that enjoy first, stay away from "blade" for now, UNLESS you are gifted
    I'm not sure about that one. Modern blades are considerably easier to hit than those from the past.


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  14. #14
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    Do yourself a favor if you really want to improve and go get measured for a set of Pings. If your budget is a little constrained then go to a golf store/pro shop that has a Ping fitting set-up, find out what color dot works best for you and then go on Ebay and buy yourself a set of used Ping Eye2's. One season with a set of these will improve your game so much that next season you can get a real set of irons (e.g. i10s)!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BritinUSA
    Do yourself a favor if you really want to improve and go get measured for a set of Pings. If your budget is a little constrained then go to a golf store/pro shop that has a Ping fitting set-up, find out what color dot works best for you and then go on Ebay and buy yourself a set of used Ping Eye2's. One season with a set of these will improve your game so much that next season you can get a real set of irons (e.g. i10s)!!!
    Yet another recommendation for Ping Eye 2s. This place is going to hell in a hand basket.

    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    Danno, my manno,
    I have been playing for 4 years now and I am still a high handicap hack. (Except for on other golf sites where I am a scratch golfer)
    I am convinced that I would be a single digit if I had started with some forged blades. or Wilson fat-shafts.
    Get it right HS. Blades to get you to single digits, then Wilson fat shafts. But I got your point. Very fukn funny.

    As for you Danno, there is only one feasible choice I can see from your selections. The T-Zoid trues are the only golf clubs on the list, the others are POS gardening tools that will make you worse, not better.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    Nifty...dawg...we have some very knowledgeable asses on this forum.

    I played the RAC OS for a few years. They are very long (because of strong lofts) and forgiving on mishits, but they didn't help my game at all. I think they have way too much offset and the heads are too big (thick topline & wide sole). I believe these so called "game improvement" features can lead to a variety of swing compensations that can negatively effect your progress.

    I would definitely suggest the t-zoids from that list. Several people on these forums (myself included) believe that game improvement (GI) irons will benefit someone who already has a good swing more than they will help a beginner...I bet Kiwi's Dad learned to play and develop his swing with blades before ever moving to a GI iron.
    Purist you are correct.

    My Dad learned to play with blades but only because they were the only clubs around back in the 1970's when he first started playing. His previous set was also a set of oversize, offset MacGregor GI irons. He bought the TM's recently in order to upgrade to a more modern iron with graphite shafts. The funny thing is, unlike us golf geeks who argue all day over equipment and the technical pros and cons and relative merits of various styles, he wouldn't even know that they have "way too much offset and the heads are too big (thick topline & wide sole)" because quite frankly he doesn't give a sh*t. He just plays well with the tools he has, shoots good scores and enjoys a drink with his mates in the 19th.

    He is the antithesis of a club ho.

    This is not to say that ho'ing isn't part of the fun of golf but it does make me wonder how much difference all these fancy new clubs actually make to our scores.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  18. #18
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    the truth hurts sooner
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Purist you are correct.

    My Dad learned to play with blades but only because they were the only clubs around back in the 1970's when he first started playing. His previous set was also a set of oversize, offset MacGregor GI irons. He bought the TM's recently in order to upgrade to a more modern iron with graphite shafts. The funny thing is, unlike us golf geeks who argue all day over equipment and the technical pros and cons and relative merits of various styles, he wouldn't even know that they have "way too much offset and the heads are too big (thick topline & wide sole)" because quite frankly he doesn't give a sh*t. He just plays well with the tools he has, shoots good scores and enjoys a drink with his mates in the 19th.

    He is the antithesis of a club ho.

    This is not to say that ho'ing isn't part of the fun of golf but it does make me wonder how much difference all these fancy new clubs actually make to our scores.
    they don't kiwi. everyone should know that. i get a good laugh at people who shell out big $ for the latest equipment & shoot the same scores. all manufacturers do with irons is change the looks of the cavity and people think it's better when the part that hits the ball (the face) remains the same. They've reached the max size on drivers and are limited in cc size & COR, so they make them square, triangle, soup bowl (like mine) or whatever and people still shell out the big $ for them. now they're making them to change lofts, lie angles, shafts on a dime. lol what's next.

    as long as the pro's play them, idiots will buy them.

    the only club in my bag that's actually helped me do better is my new heavy putter.

    and i've actually gained maybe 5-8 yards of carry on my driver.

    your dad sounds just like mine. he plays shovels and doesn't realize that they are and could care less
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    the truth hurts sooner
    Yes, Beej, it's excellent advice for the newbie/chopper to get some Pings. Anyone else? Not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    Yes, Beej, it's excellent advice for the newbie/chopper to get some Pings. Anyone else? Not so much.
    On this very topic Horseballs I saw your hero Jeff Maggert on TV at the Quail wearing a PING cap. What's the story?
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    On this very topic Horseballs I saw your hero Jeff Maggert on TV at the Quail wearing a PING cap. What's the story?
    I've got it on good information that Maggert's Pings are actually cast by Miura, so it's almost OK. Like getting head from a fat chick.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    I've got it on good information that Maggert's Pings are actually cast by Miura, so it's almost OK. Like getting head from a fat chick.
    Yeah but you do that in the dark, out of sight, late at night in a drunken haze (or so Not a Hacker tells me). You'd never be seen in public with the fat chick. Wearing a PING cap at the Quail is equivalent to bringing the fat chick to the pub to meet all your mates and then taking her home to meet your parents.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Yeah but you do that in the dark, out of sight, late at night in a drunken haze (or so Not a Hacker tells me). You'd never be seen in public with the fat chick. Wearing a PING cap at the Quail is equivalent to bringing the fat chick to the pub to meet all your mates and then taking her home to meet your parents.
    I can't argue with this, it's airtight. I'm deeply disappointed in Maggert for his chopper/money grab decision to play Pings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    they don't kiwi. everyone should know that. i get a good laugh at people who shell out big $ for the latest equipment & shoot the same scores. all manufacturers do with irons is change the looks of the cavity and people think it's better when the part that hits the ball (the face) remains the same. They've reached the max size on drivers and are limited in cc size & COR, so they make them square, triangle, soup bowl (like mine) or whatever and people still shell out the big $ for them. now they're making them to change lofts, lie angles, shafts on a dime. lol what's next.

    as long as the pro's play them, idiots will buy them.

    the only club in my bag that's actually helped me do better is my new heavy putter.
    and i've actually gained maybe 5-8 yards of carry on my driver.

    your dad sounds just like mine. he plays shovels and doesn't realize that they are and could care less
    Let us know when it's dropped four shots off your handicap.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    I can't argue with this, it's airtight. I'm deeply disappointed in Maggert for his chopper/money grab decision to play Pings.
    Jeffrey Allan Maggert has certainly dropped a long way from the guy who was a three time winner of the prestigious Texas State Open.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    I've got it on good information that Maggert's Pings are actually cast by Miura, so it's almost OK. Like getting head from a fat chick.
    Have not gotten head from a fat chick, so I don't know what it feels like...*_*... same ejeculation? hahaha

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno
    Hey, I've only played golf a handful of times but this next year I plan on getting out a lot more. Considering that I generally suck (and need a very forgiving club), which of these (lightly used iron shaft) sets of irons do you think would be the best deal for me?

    Taylormade Rac OS irons (3 - PW) for $200
    Mizuno T-Zoid true irons (1-9, PW and SW) for $290
    Callaway X-14 (4 - PW) for $325 (includes bag and Cleveland SW)
    Callaway Big Bertha X-12 (4 - SW) for $200

    From the reviews I've read, Mizuno is the best reviewed but not exactly a beginner club. Is this right? I'm leaning right now towards the X-12 set.

    Any help or advice is really appreciated!
    Go to garage sales. Buy a used set of Callaway, Ping, Taylormade, etc. DON'T buy heavy steel shafts and/or forged blades. Get cavity back and graphite if you can find them cheap enough. The old Cleveland VAS sets are around for $20 for the set. Pavin won the US Open with those. Get the bag, putter, driver, any woods they have too. Offer them $20 for everything including a few dozen used balls.

    Then spend the money on lessons! For the price of fancy clubs you could take enough lessons to become decent this Summer--if you would conscientiously go to a driving range and grind through the incremental drills the pro will suggest. Golf is just like math or physics in the respect that there are pre-requisite skills. It is silly to think you can swing hard and have success --before you have mastered the grip, setup, backswing positions, footwork, etc. All you will do is embarass yourself--the better your clubs, the worse your embarassment! Exactly like taking Calculus before you have mastered Algebra.

    Larry

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    plays to a 7 handicap so they are not just beginners clubs.
    And Bobby Jones shot in the 60s dozens of times to win major championships around the world with mismatched wooden shaft clubs --tiny forged blade clubheads including a 1-iron with far less than 10 degrees loft. His driver and "spoon" had wooden shafts AND wooden clubheads. Then Corey Pavin shot in the 60s several times on a long championship course with Clevland VAS WILDLY offset oversize graphite shafts. And then Hale Irwin won $20 MILLION on the Champion's Tour using OS Cavity back graphite shafts-- The next highest winner there was Lee Trevino ($5 Mil) and FAR back was some guy named Jack Nicklaus. (who plays regular flex clubs).

    So it ain't the clubs.

    I challenge anyone to cite an incident in which a teaching pro said, "I can't teach anyone with those clubs!" They don't CARE which club you bring-- The club is not your problem--or the solution.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    The old Cleveland VAS sets are around for $20 for the set. Pavin won the US Open with those.

    Larry

    Those are the most uber-gimmicky golf clubs ever made. Pavin may have won the 1995 US Open at Shinnecock Hills with them (actually, he WON the US Open with a 238 yard 4-wood to six feet), but he also later stated in an interview (I think it was on TGC's "Golf Talk Live" back around 2000) that he attributed the rapid decline in his game to the endorsement deal that kept those irons in his bag. Those irons are directly responsible for Pavin's disappearance from the top echelon of the professional golf ranks from 1996 onward.

    http://golf.about.com/od/golfersmen/p/corey_pavin.htm

    Pavin was a consistent player through the early part of his career, but his best seasons were 1991-96. In those six years, he finished no lower than 18th on the money list and posted seven victories. He was first on the money list in 1991, fifth in 1992, eighth in 1994 and fourth in 1995.

    He was so good that he had been saddled with the "best player never to win a major" label. But Pavin took care of that little problem at Shinnecock Hills, site of the 1995 U.S. Open.

    Pavin entered the final round three strokes off the lead. But by the 71st hole, Pavin had passed Greg Norman and held a 1-stroke lead with one hole to play. And on the 18th, he struck what has come to be regarded as one of the best shots, and most pressure-packed shots, of the 1990s. Pavin striped a 4-wood from 238 yards into the green, the ball stopping a mere six feet from the cup. The victory was his.

    Pavin also won the Nissan Open in 1995, and in 1996 added the MasterCard Colonial, his 14th career victory. And his last for a long time.

    His game began to slip, and it slipped fast. Pavin dropped to 169th on money list in 1997 with earnings of less than $100,000. Over the next 10 years, Pavin would finish inside the Top 100 on the money list just twice.

    One of the reasons is that Pavin's period of decline coincided with the surge of equipment changes in the industry, that in turn led to a surge in driving distance. While more and more tour pros were banging 300-yard drives - or averaging 300 yards over the course of the season - Pavin's driving distance didn't move. He remained in the 250s or 260s, annually "battling" for the distinction of shortest driver on tour.

    But Pavin remained very accurate, and when his putting was on he still could make noise. Such as at the 2006 U.S. Bank Championship in Milwaukee, where in the first round he set a tour record with a score of 26 over the front nine. Pavin went on to win that tournament, his 15th career victory and first since 1996.
    He certainly wasn't using Cleveland VAS irons when he shot the front nine 26 in the 2006 US Bank at Brown Deer Park.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    Then Corey Pavin shot in the 60s several times on a long championship course with Clevland VAS WILDLY offset oversize graphite shafts.

    Larry

    I have the March 1995 Golf Digest in my hand and can confirm that Pavin used STEEL SHAFTS in his Cleveland VAS irons. Stepped steel shafts in all of his irons.

    Myth - BUSTED. (if you want proof I'll scan the pictures and upload them, just say the word)



    FON
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    So what is your point? That a total newby should go out and pour hundreds of dollars into some sort of "performance" irons? How about Bobby Jones? How do you account for the FACT that he (a part-time golfer and full time lawyer) won several major amateur championships around the world playing wooden shafts (mismatched by definition) with tiny forged blades?

    Duh! The only local conclusion is that it isn't the clubs. Lee Trevino and Chi Chi and "the Hit Man" Hiler and many others have proved that conclusively a zillion times over the years They pick up any old golf club and hit it perfectly--any iron, any wood, any shaft--even rope or chain.

    After seeing that, only a fool believes there is some sort of mystic thing about the instrument--there isn't!!!!!! A good swing is a good swing. Lee Trevino shot below 90 on a championship course using a bottle taped to a stick!

    Please spare us your voodoo belief in certain sticks, certain shafts, certain clubheads. It is ALL total BS. Those who are serious about golf should be serious about making a good golf swing-- and for most of us--that requires lessons and then serious practice.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreakOfNature
    He certainly wasn't using Cleveland VAS irons when he shot the front nine 26 in the 2006 US Bank at Brown Deer Park. FON
    and there's no doubt it was the equipment that shot the 26 & not the player
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    So what is your point? That a total newby should go out and pour hundreds of dollars into some sort of "performance" irons? How about Bobby Jones? How do you account for the FACT that he (a part-time golfer and full time lawyer) won several major amateur championships around the world playing wooden shafts (mismatched by definition) with tiny forged blades?

    Duh! The only local conclusion is that it isn't the clubs. Lee Trevino and Chi Chi and "the Hit Man" Hiler and many others have proved that conclusively a zillion times over the years They pick up any old golf club and hit it perfectly--any iron, any wood, any shaft--even rope or chain.

    After seeing that, only a fool believes there is some sort of mystic thing about the instrument--there isn't!!!!!! A good swing is a good swing. Lee Trevino shot below 90 on a championship course using a bottle taped to a stick!


    Larry

    My point was - GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT if you're going to hang out here and preach all the time. Do a little homework if you want to sound like an authority on something. You may like to see yourself as an authority on golf to some degree, but 99% of the posters on this board know more about golf than you do. You're not speaking to a group of idiots - as you seem to think.

    If there's nothing special about the instrument, why recommend ultra-forgiving clubs with lightweight graphite shafts over all else? You're contradicting your own advice now...

    If you look at for example... PANTS (trousers for our European friends) the way you look at golf clubs, you'd probably see no problem in a guy wearing 44" waist and 40" inseam pants even though the guy has a 32" waist and a 32" inseam. Pants with a good amount of forgiveness, you could say - as an analogy. Where is the logic in that? Wear what fits you, and use whichever clubs FIT you.

    Please spare us your voodoo belief in certain sticks, certain shafts, certain clubheads. It is ALL total BS. Those who are serious about golf should be serious about making a good golf swing-- and for most of us--that requires lessons and then serious practice.
    Making a good golf swing, huh? So what exactly is a "good swing" for you? I bet what I consider a "good swing" and what you consider a "good swing" are about as far apart as Miami and Tokyo. That statement is simply too relative. Players have different abilities, vastly different levels of consistency, different clubhead speeds, different techniques, different goals. All of these differences mean there is no "one size fits all" solution when it comes to equipment. What works best in the hands of one player may be one of the worst options for another. You have to acknowledge the individuality among players... the great differences in abilities even among those who play to the same handicap. You over-generalize Larry. That's why you don't understand (or more aptly - refuse to acknowledge) the benefits of having personalized equipment which maximizes your own personal strengths while marginalizing your personal weaknesses.

    You have a lot to learn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjdrivers
    and there's no doubt it was the equipment that shot the 26 & not the player

    Certainly - that's just common sense, right? It was the Taylormade rac CS irons he was using... you can't shoot a 26 for 9 with anything else - obviously, right?

    Corey Pavin used the TM rac CS irons, so everyone go out and buy them immediately!!!

    Guaranteed to drop 4 shots off your handicap just with their mere presence in the bag.



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    "You have to acknowledge the individuality among players.."

    No I don't!!! That is just stupid! Unless there is a difference in the basic lesson any teaching pro gives to anyone who walks up. And everyone knows there isn't!! He wants EVERY student to take THE correct grip, THE correct stance, make THE correct backswing on plane, and place his body and club in THE correct top position. NOTHING so far about type of golf clubs, right? THAT NEVER COMES UP!!!

    And then he wants his student to start his downswing in the correct sequence, accelerating through, making a classic finish, etc.

    Did you hear anything about Mizunos working better than old wooden shafts? NO.

    It doesn't matter!!!! The ONLY difference between the shot from various clubs is distance. That takes about 2 minutes to adjust for. Hence Pavin and Irwin and any other golfer with a good swing hits fairways and greens and shoot below par if he can make some putts.

    Larry

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    Once again Larry contradicts himslef from one post to the next. He goes from recommending graphite shafted shovels and bucketing forged blades, to saying clubs don't make a scrap of difference, so it doesn't matter what clubs you use as its all about lessons. Which one is it Larry?

    BTW, whatever Cleveland paid Pavin to bag those things was not enough. There wouldn't be enough money i the world to convince me to bag those ugly POS things. Without doubt the stupidest clubs ever brought out, and something Cleveland never really lived down.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    "You have to acknowledge the individuality among players.."

    No I don't!!! That is just stupid! Unless there is a difference in the basic lesson any teaching pro gives to anyone who walks up. And everyone knows there isn't!! He wants EVERY student to take THE correct grip, THE correct stance, make THE correct backswing on plane, and place his body and club in THE correct top position. NOTHING so far about type of golf clubs, right? THAT NEVER COMES UP!!!

    And then he wants his student to start his downswing in the correct sequence, accelerating through, making a classic finish, etc.

    Did you hear anything about Mizunos working better than old wooden shafts? NO.

    It doesn't matter!!!! The ONLY difference between the shot from various clubs is distance. That takes about 2 minutes to adjust for. Hence Pavin and Irwin and any other golfer with a good swing hits fairways and greens and shoot below par if he can make some putts.

    Larry

    Well, I guess in YOUR WORLD - there is only one correct way to swing a golf club.

    If you're looking for reality... I think it's in the OPPOSITE direction.

    Also - last time I checked Mizuno didn't make shafts... and if old hickory shafts are so superior - why are there no manufacturers offering them or Tour players playing them? It does matter. If properly fitted equipment was so worthless and so much of a damn farce then why do ALL of the better professionals insist on using equipment which is fitted to their exacting standards? How come every Tour event is accompanied by over half a dozen of these "clubfitting" vans and trucks where the players can go and have their equipment tweaked on a whim?

    I'd love to see the look on Tiger's face if you were to go up to him and say any of this to him face-to-face. I bet even Irwin and Pavin would scoff at your uninformed overgeneralized statements.

    Welcome to 2009. Glad you could make it. Try to fit in.



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    Tell Me Which of These to Buy

    I think you first need to self-confidence and courage. This movement is the enjoyment of sports, so you want to relax. Secondly, bought a lot of the tools.I have been using R9 series。TaylorMade R9 Driver is very good!~
    http://www.golfwholesale18.com/goods...R9+Driver.html

    In the above site, you can find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry
    I think you first need to self-confidence and courage. This movement is the enjoyment of sports, so you want to relax. Secondly, bought a lot of the tools.I have been using R9 series。TaylorMade R9 Driver is very good!~
    http://www.golfwholesale18.com/goods...R9+Driver.html

    In the above site, you can find it.
    And I think you first need to f*** off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf

    I know everything except how to post my scores.

    Larry
    Thought I'd summarize all of Larry's posts to date.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry
    I think you first need to self-confidence and courage. This movement is the enjoyment of sports, so you want to relax. Secondly, bought a lot of the tools.I have been using R9 series。TaylorMade R9 Driver is very good!~
    http://www.golfwholesale18.com/goods...R9+Driver.html

    In the above site, you can find it.
    No fu**ck**ing way that a new 2009 TM driver is $169... faking idiot...

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    My point is that a player with a good golf swing can score with anything from hickory shafted tiny forged blades to modern OS Cavity Backs. That's why there is NEVER any discussion about the choice of clubs during a golf lesson. The pro knows that is not the problem nor the solution. They just laugh at amateurs going into the shop and "getting fit." That is also bogus. It take about 4 swings for a good golfer to adjust to nearly anything. Admittedly some clubs are more "comfortable," but like shoes they would work. He might go out and hit all the greens with irons he hates to look at and feel. So it is the swing. Hence my earnest advice to our newby thread starter to spend the money on lessons. Get below 10 handicap, then start demoing golf clubs.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    Thought I'd summarize all of Larry's posts to date.
    Lame. And SOOOO predictable. When they can't intelligently argue the premise, they always start launching personal attacks against the poster. Ho hum. Boring. We've seen that stuff in every other golf discussion forum for years and years. You would really enjoy the golf discussion on the Usenet--you could post unlimited profanity!!

    Larry

  45. #45

    X-12

    I have 2 sets and another one my son plays with. I use to use the X-12 pro. An outstanding set, long, and forgiving. I also use Ping ISI, and currently use the Cleveland TA7 which I feel is the most accurate of all but a little shorter. Just getting started I would go with the Callaway and both sets are good. The X12 is just as good as the X14 tho and cheaper. Just not as new a model. If you do not riding an old model stick with the X12's. IMO

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    My point is that a player with a good golf swing can score with anything from hickory shafted tiny forged blades to modern OS Cavity Backs. That's why there is NEVER any discussion about the choice of clubs during a golf lesson. The pro knows that is not the problem nor the solution. They just laugh at amateurs going into the shop and "getting fit." That is also bogus. It take about 4 swings for a good golfer to adjust to nearly anything. Admittedly some clubs are more "comfortable," but like shoes they would work. He might go out and hit all the greens with irons he hates to look at and feel. So it is the swing. Hence my earnest advice to our newby thread starter to spend the money on lessons. Get below 10 handicap, then start demoing golf clubs.
    Larry
    Ummm. If clubs don't matter, then why are you recommending cavity backs and graphite shafts? If the clubs are in fact irrelevant, then it would be a psychological advantage to a newbie to bag something less gay.
    Maxfli Fire- Driver-LW
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  47. #47
    Those are all good sets, you need to go with what feels right for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    My point is that a player with a good golf swing can score with anything from hickory shafted tiny forged blades to modern OS Cavity Backs. That's why there is NEVER any discussion about the choice of clubs during a golf lesson. The pro knows that is not the problem nor the solution. They just laugh at amateurs going into the shop and "getting fit." That is also bogus. It take about 4 swings for a good golfer to adjust to nearly anything. Admittedly some clubs are more "comfortable," but like shoes they would work. He might go out and hit all the greens with irons he hates to look at and feel. So it is the swing. Hence my earnest advice to our newby thread starter to spend the money on lessons. Get below 10 handicap, then start demoing golf clubs.

    Larry

    Which is why they ALWAYS head to the fitting trailer and NEVER go to the first tee WITHOUT assuring that their clubs are PERFECTLY FITTED to match their swings and game.

    Why don't you explain that - rather than dodge the questions... if you're actually interested in having a GOLF DISCUSSION like you CLAIM.

    You're starting to piss me off Larry. You won't like me when I'm angry.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    I'm lame and predictable.

    Larry
    Finally we agree.
    GR lives...

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    There's no point in saying, it's the marksman, not the rifle, if the discussion is primarily about rifles. OK, fine, the marksman is the more important component of the two. Nobody's arguing, but we're talking rifles.

    For the recreational player, the best clubs are the ones with which he has the most fun playing. If one type brings instant gratification while another might result in a better game down the road, EITHER could be the one with which the player has the most fun. It's his or her call.

    I played pure blades as a rank beginner, ultra-forgiving cast clubs (albeit with steel shafts) at the very top of my game, and so-called "players' forged cavity backs" with graphite shafts now. Players' cavitity backs and what the GR gang calls GI shovels play equally easily for me because I've been hitting iron shots for fifty-one years. If I enjoyed the challenge of losing twenty yards because I missed a sweet spot the size of a pencil eraser, then steel-shafted pure blades would be fun for me as well.

    The fact that we can argue about this stuff means that we're real lucky guys without anything serious about which to worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick
    The fact that we can argue about this stuff means that we're real lucky guys without anything serious about which to worry.
    Prophetic words there Nifty!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick
    There's no point in saying, it's the marksman, not the rifle, if the discussion is primarily about rifles. OK, fine, the marksman is the more important component of the two. Nobody's arguing, but we're talking rifles.
    This is the best comment/contribution to this discussion so far.
    Well done Nifty!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick
    There's no point in saying, it's the marksman, not the rifle, if the discussion is primarily about rifles. OK, fine, the marksman is the more important component of the two. Nobody's arguing, but we're talking rifles.
    While this is is particularly well stated, I think it would be a grave, potentially fatal mistake to enourage Larry to use a rifle.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreakOfNature
    Which is why they ALWAYS head to the fitting trailer and NEVER go to the first tee WITHOUT assuring that their clubs are PERFECTLY FITTED to match their swings and game.
    "They" are professionals-- playing against the best in the world. ONE stroke could cost them their card or thousands of dollars.

    It is folly for amateurs to imitate them -- because their motivations for using certain clubs is often endorsement deals, etc.

    But any pro golfer would tell you they could probably score the same with nearly any premium club set, any shaft, any clubhead. There are leagues that play the old wooden shaft clubs-- and do quite well with them! A swing is a swing.

    So I recommended that the newby buy a used set with bag and as many used balls and etc. as come in the bag pockets. When he gets discouraged and quits golf, he can get the same amount he paid!!!

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    "They" are professionals-- playing against the best in the world. ONE stroke could cost them their card or thousands of dollars.

    It is folly for amateurs to imitate them -- because their motivations for using certain clubs is often endorsement deals, etc.

    But any pro golfer would tell you they could probably score the same with nearly any premium club set, any shaft, any clubhead. There are leagues that play the old wooden shaft clubs-- and do quite well with them! A swing is a swing.

    So I recommended that the newby buy a used set with bag and as many used balls and etc. as come in the bag pockets. When he gets discouraged and quits golf, he can get the same amount he paid!!!
    Sorry, but I find the credibility of someone who claims to be a six while having only posted once from February 2008 until March 2009 and then posts three scores with differentials above 18 to be highly suspect.

    http://www.idcreports.com/members/me...&MBRNBR=568470

    Just in the interest of full disclosure and honesty about who we all are, right Larry?

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    Nicklaus played with stiff shafts, not regular. Get your facts straight again Larry. He tried X-Stiff and didn't like the feel, said he felt like he was swinging a telephone pole. He liked the softer shafts, but not regular.
    2-0-1 in GR stroke play

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    While this is is particularly well stated, I think it would be a grave, potentially fatal mistake to enourage Larry to use a rifle.
    Hmmm ... Rancho Santa Fe?

    Isn't that where the Heavensgate community launched their voyage by spaceship to the 'next' world. Complete with their Nike Pumps and fancy space outfits?

    I'm worried you're on to something here?
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    "They" are professionals-- playing against the best in the world. ONE stroke could cost them their card or thousands of dollars.

    It is folly for amateurs to imitate them -- because their motivations for using certain clubs is often endorsement deals, etc.

    But any pro golfer would tell you they could probably score the same with nearly any premium club set, any shaft, any clubhead. There are leagues that play the old wooden shaft clubs-- and do quite well with them! A swing is a swing.
    Riiiiiight.

    That's why Payne Stewart -- one of the sweetest golf swings of his day -- says his game went to hell when he changed to Spalding's cavity back clubs...

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    My point is that a player with a good golf swing can score with anything from hickory shafted tiny forged blades to modern OS Cavity Backs. That's why there is NEVER any discussion about the choice of clubs during a golf lesson. The pro knows that is not the problem nor the solution. They just laugh at amateurs going into the shop and "getting fit." That is also bogus. It take about 4 swings for a good golfer to adjust to nearly anything. Admittedly some clubs are more "comfortable," but like shoes they would work. He might go out and hit all the greens with irons he hates to look at and feel. So it is the swing. Hence my earnest advice to our newby thread starter to spend the money on lessons. Get below 10 handicap, then start demoing golf clubs.

    Larry
    This is the main reason most pro's and good golfers will take no more than 3 swings with any new club. Because they are trying to avoid exactly what you are alluding to. Sure a pro could pick up anything and make adjustments to their swing to use it, but they actually want something that fit's their current swing and that doesn't need them to make any manipulations to get the desired result. Once again Larry, you have shown us how little you really know about anything.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alangbaker
    Riiiiiight.

    That's why Payne Stewart -- one of the sweetest golf swings of his day -- says his game went to hell when he changed to Spalding's cavity back clubs...
    I think with Payne it was a double whammy as he also went from a wound balata to a solid ball and had trouble with that also. Those Spadlings sure were a crap club from memory.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by alangbaker
    Sorry, but I find the credibility of someone who claims to be a six while having only posted once from February 2008 until March 2009 and then posts three scores with differentials above 18 to be highly suspect.

    http://www.idcreports.com/members/me...&MBRNBR=568470

    Just in the interest of full disclosure and honesty about who we all are, right Larry?
    How the fark do you shot 14 of your last 20 rounds in the 80's, and four of those in the 90's, and still be a 6.6? It wouldn't take Irwin or Pavin to give you 5 a side and still kick your arse, anyone on this board could give you 5 a side and comfortably hand your arse to you. especially the way you've been stinking it up this year.

    Admit it Larry, you're a vanity cap chopper.
    Last edited by Not a hacker; 05-10-2009 at 10:47 PM.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    How the fark do you shot 14 of your last 20 rounds in the 80's, and four of those in the 90's, and still be a 6.6?
    I don't know but I want to sign up for that handicapping system. A few good cards and I'll be scratch before I know it!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    I don't know but I want to sign up for that handicapping system. A few good cards and I'll be scratch before I know it!
    Better than the stupid system here that allows you to play one under your handicap and still get 0.1 back on most days as the CCR is 2 under. To get to 6.6 you would have to be regularly threatening par at my course and most courses in Oz with our handicap system.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    How the fark do you shot 14 of your last 20 rounds in the 80's, and four of those in the 90's, and still be a 6.6? It wouldn't take Irwin or Pavin to give you 5 a side and still kick your arse, anyone on this board could give you 5 a side and comfortably hand your arse to you. especially the way you've been stinking it up this year.

    Admit it Larry, you're a vanity cap chopper.
    I always enjoy getting swing tips from someone with a handicap 10-15 strokes higher than mine and who has a crappy swing.

    It's almost as much fun as getting putting tips from bad putters.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    I always enjoy getting swing tips from someone with a handicap 10-15 strokes higher than mine and who has a crappy swing.

    It's almost as much fun as getting putting tips from bad putters.
    This is a good point.

    Larry do you offer as much swing advice to your playing partners on the course as you do on this forum?
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    This is a good point.

    Larry do you offer as much swing advice to your playing partners on the course as you do on this forum?
    I have a strong suspicion that Larry plays as a single.
    fred3 antagonizer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    I have a strong suspicion that Larry plays as a single.
    I have a strong suspicion that one of the reasons Larry seems to go through instructors faster than I used to go through golf gloves (sweaty palms -- now I take it off after every swing) is that he assumes that his lack of improvement is due to a failing in the instructor and not the instructee...


  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by alangbaker
    I have a strong suspicion that one of the reasons Larry seems to go through instructors faster than I used to go through golf gloves (sweaty palms -- now I take it off after every swing) is that he assumes that his lack of improvement is due to a failing in the instructor and not the instructee...

    I think what you are trying to say is that Larry blames the arrow, when in actual fact (this subject has been debated and it was decided unanimously) Indians are to blame for everything.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Indians are to blame for everything.
    Dot or feather?
    fred3 antagonizer
    2010 recipiant of TRG Commendation of Excellence
    Member GR Club 5K
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    *Plus many more accolades that are the cause of jealousy

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    Dot or feather?
    I actually assumed we were talking the swarthy sub continental variey. They're the only Indians we have here in Oz, and I certainly blame them.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  71. #71
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    Striker Clubs

    Buy these clubs from Hireko Golf. They are very, very good...and 60 bucks is all.

    http://www.hirekogolf.com/hireko/ord.../998/0/0/0/0/0

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairwayJack
    Buy these clubs from Hireko Golf. They are very, very good...and 60 bucks is all.

    http://www.hirekogolf.com/hireko/ord.../998/0/0/0/0/0

    Those are phucking shovels!! If you are going to spam something, at least spam something good . . . .
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

  73. #73
    If you are truly a beginner, I would not hit any iron longer than a 6 iron right now. Then go to a 7 wood, 5 wood, etc. You can get forged cavity back irons and you will hit them fine if you don't try to hit great shots with 3 & 4 irons. You will also like them better for chip shots. I agree you should start with something with a slight cavity back and reduced offset (Mizuno MP30s, T-zoid Pros, etc.). Lots of offset will only screw up your swing. BUY USED! 4 or 5 year old clubs are just as good as anything out there now, and if you really start liking the game you will get something else in a year or so anyway so don't shell out a bunch of money now.

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