Kenny Perry - Cheater?

[Horseballs]

We all know he is of questionable character, given his propensity for beating up on chopper fields and taking easy paychecks from journeymen grinder types, but is he a cheater? I always thought he was some kind of self-righteous Southern Gentleman off the course. Good fearing, honest, a little dumb, but not a cheater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv9Oe...layer_embedded
This seems like something one of the old cheating bastards would do at the SPCC.

[Kiwi Player]

That's ok isn't it? As long as the ball doesn't move?

[The Purist]

That's ok isn't it? As long as the ball doesn't move?

It looks like he is improving the lie to me....you can't see the back of the ball until he matts down the thick grass behind it. It would be no different than snapping off low hanging limbs on a tree to improve your backswing.

[Kiwi Player]

It looks like he is improving the lie to me....you can't see the back of the ball until he matts down the thick grass behind it. It would be no different than snapping off low hanging limbs on a tree to improve your backswing.

You mean you don't do that? I carry a small saw in my bag for that very purpose!

[Horseballs]

This really should have been a poll. My mistake. Can you really blame KP? His game isn't strong enough to deal with a less than perfect lie.

[Kiwi Player]

This really should have been a poll. My mistake. Can you really blame KP? His game isn't strong enough to deal with a less than perfect lie.

Exactly. He isn't juiced up on steroids like another player we won't mention and wouldn't have the strength in his forearms to power the wedge through that THICK rough.

[edgey]

That's ok isn't it? As long as the ball doesn't move?

Getting a little worried now

Kiwi = Defends Perry clearly improving his lie, therefore cheating

Kiwi = Slags JD off as a drunken bum

You sure your not taking it up the shitter from your local vicar?

Edgey

[Kiwi Player]

Getting a little worried now

Kiwi = Defends Perry clearly improving his lie, therefore cheating

Kiwi = Slags JD off as a drunken bum

You sure your not taking it up the shitter from your local vicar?

Edgey

We don't have any vicars here in the land of heathens.

[edgey]

We don't have any vicars here in the land of heathens.

NAH assures me that all the peado vicars retire to the land of limitless sheep and Kenny Perry apologists.......

Edgey

[Kiwi Player]

NAH assures me that all the peado vicars retire to the land of limitless sheep and Kenny Perry apologists.......

Edgey

Well there you go, if NAH told you it must be irrefutable. He NEVER spouts BS on ANY topic.

[connecticutter]

Juice up on roids, you are clearly talking about Sean O'Hare!

[edgey]

Well there you go, if NAH told you it must be irrefutable. He NEVER spouts BS on ANY topic.

NOTHING NAH says is ever irrefutable (GR word of the day) but in this case it did carry the ring of truth.

Edgey

[oldplayer]

Looks pretty suspicious to me. You can definately see more of the ball once he's finished patting the grass down.
This must be pretty sweet for you HB, confirming your dislike and misstrust of good ole KP.

[Horseballs]

Looks pretty suspicious to me. You can definately see more of the ball once he's finished patting the grass down.
This must be pretty sweet for you HB, confirming your dislike and misstrust of good ole KP.

It is neither sweet nor sour. My instincts are infallable. I didn't previously think of KP as a cheater, but it's not that big of a stretch for for someone who back-door qualifies for a legend-building event (Ryder Cup) by slapping the face of the the other legend-building events (majors).

[lorenzoinoc]

That choking, cheating, challenge-avoiding chopper! He clearly cheated. He might as well have gone over the grass with a lawnmower.

[Home-slicer]

KP said he had no intentions of improving his lie and the matter has been put to rest. So I guess that leaves us with a practical question at this point. "Why else would you pat the fukkin turf down behind the ball?" I have to admit that my pre-shot routine involves picking my ball up, putting it in my pocket, and taking a short walk. Usually about 50-100 yards. Toward the hole. It just helps me focus.

[golfaholic]

They said it was down grain.

Therefore, when he puts the club down behind the ball, the grass is going to flatten out.

Not Rocket Science.

Or cheating.

Or against the rules.

[Kiwi Player]

They said it was down grain.

Therefore, when he puts the club down behind the ball, the grass is going to flatten out.

Not Rocket Science.

Or cheating.

Or against the rules.

At last an informed opinion from someone who know's what they are talking about amidst all these wild & defamatory accusations of cheating. If a GR Mod doesn't know the rules of golf NOBODY does.

Thread Closed.

[lorenzoinoc]

They said it was down grain.

Therefore, when he puts the club down behind the ball, the grass is going to flatten out.

Not Rocket Science.

Or cheating.

Or against the rules.

And since they said it you buy it?

Joking aside, it's possible they said this because lie improvement in the rough is a dirty little secret on the PGA tour. There have been articles on this. Some offend more than others but the pat down occurs frequently and is tolerated. Sometimes, such as this, there may be an argument why it didn't actually improve the lie. Possible here I suppose but it sure looked as though what he did was more impactful to the grass, accepting the grain, than simply putting the club behind the ball. He clearly was patting the grass down not simply placing the club on the grass.

[golfaholic]

And since they said it you buy it?

Why lie?

And before they saw him put the club behind the ball.

Move along, nothing to see here.

[Home-slicer]

JS,
Have you seen the clip? He's not addressing the ball, he's standing upright with the club in one hand, patting the turf behind the ball flat. repeatedly. I didn't think that was legal or accepted.

[Not a hacker]

Kiwi,

I think I've been verballed by our English friend, but I will retrospectively take responsibility for what he said I said.

As for KP, it was an open and shut case of cheating. Jumbo Ozaki himslef would have proud to claim that one. He clearly improved his lie by patting down the grass behind his ball. As Zo said it is a dirty trick accepted by most on tour, but as it usually occurs in the rough it is away from the prying lens of the camera. So as well as being a cheat he is an idiot for cheating insuch plain view.

[oldplayer]

And since they said it you buy it?

Joking aside, it's possible they said this because lie improvement in the rough is a dirty little secret on the PGA tour. There have been articles on this. Some offend more than others but the pat down occurs frequently and is tolerated. Sometimes, such as this, there may be an argument why it didn't actually improve the lie. Possible here I suppose but it sure looked as though what he did was more impactful to the grass, accepting the grain, than simply putting the club behind the ball. He clearly was patting the grass down not simply placing the club on the grass.

I agree 100%. He didn't just ground the club behind the ball addressing it pre-shot. He repeatedly flattened the grass behind the ball with the sole of the club.

[ripit35]

I agree 100%. He didn't just ground the club behind the ball addressing it pre-shot. He repeatedly flattened the grass behind the ball with the sole of the club.

Yes, but you can also say he repeatedly addressed the ball, he took his stance and grounded the club, i don't see how this could be any different from any other instance of a player grounding their club behind the ball in the rough

[daveperkins]

Looks to me like the ball became more visible after he put the club down, not BEHIND it as in address, but closer to himself, as in getting ready for a practice swing... note the angle of the camera is from behind him, meaning the club was never grounded directly in the hitting position while he was diddling around..

I think he crunched down grass between the ball and the camera, not directly behind the ball..

that's my take, but then I adore KP, he's a god to me.. :-)

[The Purist]

They addressed this subject on the golf channel last night. Apparently the PGA officials seemed to suggest that had a fan phoned them during the tournament, they may have taken some action, but once a tournament has concluded they won't go back and look at things like improving a lie (because its too hard to determine "intent").

[connecticutter]

It is cheating, but blame the tournament officials for not calling it more than KP. I had playing partners in high school and college matches get penalized for the same thing, in accordance to then USGA rules. If high school organizations and high division NCAA organizations understand the rules, the PGA tourney officials should too.

There are some rules that lead to legalized "cheating." Lift clean and place really should be against the rules. It is not playing the ball as it lies, which is the first rule in the rule book.

[lorenzoinoc]

They addressed this subject on the golf channel last night. Apparently the PGA officials seemed to suggest that had a fan phoned them during the tournament, they may have taken some action, but once a tournament has concluded they won't go back and look at things like improving a lie (because its too hard to determine "intent").

Take a look at rule 13-2 in the link. There's no mention of intent, in fact the rule is pretty specific in prohibiting what he did.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/pdf/2008ROG.pdf

The no action being taken here is probably because this practice goes on so much, they don't want to open up a can of worms. It would probably show up on videos of many players in many past events which calls into question the integrity of alot more players, of the tour and the USGA for not enforcing the rule.

I suspect the tour, after realizing their vulnerability, made sure to contact the players this week to advise them the practice won't be ignored in the future. This isn't steroids in baseball by any stretch. But the tour would be foolish to invite more controversy on this.

[Kiwi Player]

This is just one big penis envy thread because KP is so successful and plays such great irons. You spiteful, petty, jealous types just need to grow up!

[Not a hacker]

I can't believe there would be a single person on this forum that could possibly defend such a blatant display of cheating. As Zo has pointed out, the rules on this are pretty clear. You can't improve your lie by patting the grass down behind the ball. I don't think there is any argument about his lie being improved by his actions (the ball went form being completely buried to sitting up nicely), so it's his actions which are in question. He was patting down the grass with his clubhead, pure and simple. It was in no way addressing the ball, as he didn't actually complete the shot. You don't address the ball four or five times, then back off start taking practice shots. You address the ball immediately prior to playing the shot. And I think if you watch him play all his other shots around the course, walking up and placing the clubhead down firmly in the grass directly behind the ball four or five times then backing off to play a practice shot isn't part of his normal pre-shot routine, so all you KP lovers don't even think of trying that on. He is just an out and out DB POS cheating mofo who should have his arse kicked off the tour for such a flagrant breach of the rules. I don't blame the officials either, as they are there to assist with rulings, not police players for cheating. Golf is a self regulated game which assumes participants are honest enough not to cheat.

[SDB1]

You people are over reacting. He's setting his distance and gauging the thickness of the rough. He obviously sets his club behind the ball then moves it closer to him and sets his distance by regripping the club a few times. Once he sets his grip on the club he makes a practice swing. This is common practice with pros on tour because they have to contend with rough that most of us don't have to deal with.

I do the same thing sometimes. I'll ground the club behind the ball to see how high up in the rough the ball is sitting. I'll then ground the club slighly closer to me and slide my hand down the grip slightly to compensate for the amount the ball is sitting up. This is a distance setting practice so you don't swing the clubhead right under the ball when it's sitting up in the rough nothing more.

[ripit35]

You people are over reacting. He's setting his distance and gauging the thickness of the rough. He obviously sets his club behind the ball then moves it closer to him and sets his distance by regripping the club a few times. Once he sets his grip on the club he makes a practice swing. This is common practice with pros on tour because they have to contend with rough that most of us don't have to deal with.

I do the same thing sometimes. I'll ground the club behind the ball to see how high up in the rough the ball is sitting. I'll then ground the club slighly closer to me and slide my hand down the grip slightly to compensate for the amount the ball is sitting up. This is a distance setting practice so you don't swing the clubhead right under the ball when it's sitting up in the rough nothing more.

that may be true, but he did it three times and his lie improved. as previously stated, there doesnt have to be intent does there?

[Horseballs]

You people are over reacting. He's setting his distance and gauging the thickness of the rough. He obviously sets his club behind the ball then moves it closer to him and sets his distance by regripping the club a few times. Once he sets his grip on the club he makes a practice swing. This is common practice with pros on tour because they have to contend with rough that most of us don't have to deal with.

I do the same thing sometimes. I'll ground the club behind the ball to see how high up in the rough the ball is sitting. I'll then ground the club slighly closer to me and slide my hand down the grip slightly to compensate for the amount the ball is sitting up. This is a distance setting practice so you don't swing the clubhead right under the ball when it's sitting up in the rough nothing more.

This is bullshite for several reasons, which I will document for your reading pleasure.
1. He can gauge the thickness of the rough anywhere near the ball, why DIRECTLY behind it?
2. We you hit the ball in a bunker, you don't get to test the amount of sand under the ball.
3. It doesn't matter what rough I may or may not be used to; play the ball down.
4. Kenny Perry's lie was visibly improved.
5. If you are doing the same thing, you are also cheating.

[SDB1]

This is bullshite for several reasons, which I will document for your reading pleasure.
1. He can gauge the thickness of the rough anywhere near the ball, why DIRECTLY behind it?
2. We you hit the ball in a bunker, you don't get to test the amount of sand under the ball.
3. It doesn't matter what rough I may or may not be used to; play the ball down.
4. Kenny Perry's lie was visibly improved.
5. If you are doing the same thing, you are also cheating.

1. This is wrong. The turf below the grass could be at different levels. Therefore it is important to test the height right behind the ball.

2. You can't ground your club in a bunker therfore you have to guess. This rule doesn't apply outside of a hazard.

3. It matters if you're a professional and want to give yourself the best opportunity to make good contact.

4. It wasn't visibly improved from the angle I was seeing it from. In the second shot you can't see what angle that is and don't get to see the lie before he grounded his club.

5. I expected this response! I actually thought it would be the only one. I guess the PGA tour officials think otherwise. I'll go with their expert opinion and not yours.

[SoonerBS]

Getting a little worried now

Kiwi = Defends Perry clearly improving his lie, therefore cheating

Kiwi = Slags JD off as a drunken bum

You sure your not taking it up the shitter from your local vicar?

Edgey

Kiwi is way too old to attract attention from a vicar, they usually like them young and tender. Word is it has been quite a frolic for them in Irish Catholic Run schools . . . . http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/...catholic_abuse

[Horseballs]

1. This is wrong. The turf below the grass could be at different levels. Therfore it is important to test the height right behind the ball.

2. You can't ground your club in a bunker therfore you have to guess. This rule doesn't apply outside of a hazard.

3. It matters if you're a professional and want to give yourself the best opportunity to make good contact.

4. It wasn't visibly improved from the angle I was seeing it from. In the second shot you can't see what angle that is and don't get to see the lie before he grounded his club.

5. I expected this response! I actually thought it would be the only one. I guess the PGA tour officials think otherwise. I'll go with their expert opinion and not yours.

1. Tough sh!t. Play the ball down, like a man.
2. Acceptable, although very weak.
3. The best opportunity would be to place the ball on a tee in a fairway. Rough is a crapshoot.
4. I don't know what to tell you besides, look at my video. It's not up for debate whether or not KP's actions improved his lie.
5. The tour officials didn't see this video until after the tourney was concluded. We don't know what they would have done.

[Kiwi Player]

Kiwi is way too old to attract attention from a vicar, they usually like them young and tender. Word is it has been quite a frolic for them in Irish Catholic Run schools . . . . http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/...catholic_abuse

As I've said before. If you want to get a nun pregnant dress her up as a choir boy.

[SDB1]

1. Tough sh!t. Play the ball down, like a man.
2. Acceptable, although very weak.
3. The best opportunity would be to place the ball on a tee in a fairway. Rough is a crapshoot.
4. I don't know what to tell you besides, look at my video. It's not up for debate whether or not KP's actions improved his lie.
5. The tour officials didn't see this video until after the tourney was concluded. We don't know what they would have done.

1. Do you take that same stance off cart paths and sprinkler heads? The rules are there to govern and sometimes help the player. If the rules allow it you can ground the club to check the depth of rough.

2. It's not weak, it's standard practice. Players will always test conditions outside of a hazard. Especially on delicate shots where the conditions can drastically alter the outcome.

3. It's only a crapshoot if you don't take conditions into consideration when preparing to hit your shot. If you know how to judge conditions and how to make adjustments then your chances of having a positive result are greatly reduced.

4. I watched the video multiple times. I see him place the club behind the ball to judge the depth. I then see him pick the club up and place the club down beside the ball several times to adjust his grip position on the club. He then takes his practice swing besides the ball. The last shot of a ball on the ground doesn't tell me anything because I can't tell what angle that is from or when that shot was taken. If he hit his ball after the practice swing when could they have taken the close up shot of the ball? Did they place another ball on the same spot after he took his shot and then video it?

5. Since I've been to dozens of PGA, Champions Tour and LPGA tournaments and have personally seen countless players doing the exact same thing I don't see it as a problem. I can see where someone that didn't know any better would be confused though.

[ripit35]

SDB1, i'm usually a KP supporter, but your point is mute, watch after his practice swing, he releases his grip. all that "adjusting" for a practice swing?

[poe4soul]

I think I'm going to start doing this. Infact if this is not breaking the rules then I'm going to start each rough shot checking out how the ball depth is with my driver. Pound the grass down a few times, take a practice swing, pound the grass a couple of more times and then decide that this really isn't a good lie for a driver. Then proceed to take out my 58* wedge and hit my ball. If what KP did wasn't cheating then what I'm proposing isn't cheating. I've just changed my club selection.

[SDB1]

SDB1, i'm usually a KP supporter, but your point is mute, watch after his practice swing, he releases his grip. all that "adjusting" for a practice swing?

Why not? A player isn't allowed to assess the situation take a practice swing and then back away and take another look? You've never seen anybody on tour do that before?

[SDB1]

I think I'm going to start doing this. Infact if this is not breaking the rules then I'm going to start each rough shot checking out how the ball depth is with my driver. Pound the grass down a few times, take a practice swing, pound the grass a couple of more times and then decide that this really isn't a good lie for a driver. Then proceed to take out my 58* wedge and hit my ball. If what KP did wasn't cheating then what I'm proposing isn't cheating. I've just changed my club selection.

Do whatever you want as long as you pound away on the side of your intended line like KP did that is perfectly legal. The second part of the video seems to show the ball from the opposite angle and the lie behind the ball (top left of screen) is still crappy. I don't see any improvement.

[ripit35]

Why not? A player isn't allowed to assess the situation take a practice swing and then back away and take another look? You've never seen anybody on tour do that before?

he adjusts his grip for the depth or how much the ball is sitting up, i'll give you that, but why does he release his grip after his practice swing? wasn't the purpose to make an adjustment? i'd think he maintain his grip so he doesnt have to re-adjust

[lorenzoinoc]

For those who can read I've copied over Rule 13-2 verbatim and highlighted the relevant parts. One would only question whether Perry broke the rule if they also habitually violate this rule and are really defending themselves, they have a crush on Kenny Perry or have difficulty processing simple information.

Otherwise, if you can watch video, recognize what a club and grass look like, and have the reading comprehension to understand what "grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball" means, then there's no grey area here. He was patting down the grass, not lightly, and not when addressing the ball and he improved his lie. Plain and simple.

You can't push the club down to assess the situation, test the depth of the grass or for any other reason or you violate this rule. Period. You can only ground the club lightly when addressing the ball.

If you've been cheating all this time, the solution isn't to claim that something that clearly is isn't, it's to stop cheating.

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing,
or Line of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line
beyond the hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed
(including immovable obstructions and objects defining out
of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots
or other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club
for a stroke and the stroke is made,
46 Rule 13
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within
the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or
water from the teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in
repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

[SDB1]

he adjusts his grip for the depth or how much the ball is sitting up, i'll give you that, but why does he release his grip after his practice swing? wasn't the purpose to make an adjustment? i'd think he maintain his grip so he doesnt have to re-adjust

I've already addressed this. As I've seen multiple times over the years he probably intended to hit the shot and then after he made a practice swing decided to rethink his strategy, maybe even change clubs. Nothing wrong with that.

You've never stood over a ball ready to execute a shot and felt a breeze and decided to change clubs?

[SDB1]

For those who can read I've copied over Rule 13-2 verbatim and highlighted the relevant parts. One would only question whether Perry broke the rule if they also habitually violate this rule and are really defending themselves, they have a crush on Kenny Perry or have difficulty processing simple information.

Otherwise, if you can watch video, recognize what a club and grass look like, and have the reading comprehension to understand what "grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball" means, then there's no grey area here. He was patting down the grass, not lightly, and not when addressing the ball and he improved his lie. Plain and simple.

You can't push the club down to assess the situation, test the depth of the grass or for any other reason or you violate this rule. Period. You can only ground the club lightly when addressing the ball.

If you've been cheating all this time, the solution isn't to claim that something that clearly is isn't, it's to stop cheating.

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing,
or Line of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line
beyond the hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed
(including immovable obstructions and objects defining out
of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots
or other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club
for a stroke and the stroke is made,
46 Rule 13
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within
the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or
water from the teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in
repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

We've already read the rule as it's written. My point is you can make a reasonable defense. The video as it's presented is inconclusive. To me it looks like he grounds the club behind the ball, then moves the club closer to himself, taps it down to adjust his grip a few times, and then makes a practice swing. From the video it looks like this is part of his standard routine so I can't imagine that it's never been brought up before if it was really a problem.

[poe4soul]

Honestly, I've never had to ground my club repeatedly to check the ball height. I'll look at it once and take my grip. So to me it seems excessive which leads me to believe he has the opportunity to be in breach of the rule by his actions. So, being a honest golfer I would never do what he is doing. Too each his own. God knows we all hate those flier lies.

[SDB1]

Honestly, I've never had to ground my club repeatedly to check the ball height. I'll look at it once and take my grip. So to me it seems excessive which leads me to believe he has the opportunity to be in breach of the rule by his actions. So, being a honest golfer I would never do what he is doing. Too each his own. God knows we all hate those flier lies.

Most golfers don't see the need to do alot of the things tour pros do! That's what separates them from the tour pros. They don't understand the point of things such as gauging the lie, wind, grain, turf conditions or the reason for the preshot routine. It doesn't mean they're right in suggesting they're not needed.

There is no rule that says you can't use a club to gauge the thickness of rough. Therefore it is allowable. It comes down to intent. Have you ever seen guys on tour that when taking their stance take multiple steps to get comfortable over a shot. They stand there and shuffle their feet all over the place. To me it looks like a nervous tick but to some you could say they are purposely improving their stance by patting their feet down multiple times.

[lorenzoinoc]

The same thing developed with the issue of uphill or downhill lies with this guy. He'd taken an opposite position to logic and physics. When you posted the Maltbie video which proved he was completely wrong, he couldn't admit and kept making up pathetic b.s.

It seems as though noone else needs any further discussion on this and I certainly wouldn't waste any more effort on him.

The jury system may be the best we have but consider its flaws when you have someone who's incapable of applying the law and facts no matter how clear. Defense lawyers must make their living off of people like this.

[SDB1]

The same thing developed with the issue of uphill or downhill lies with this guy. He'd taken an opposite position to logic and physics. When you posted the Maltbie video which proved he was completely wrong, he couldn't admit and kept making up pathetic b.s.

It seems as though noone else needs any further discussion on this and I certainly wouldn't waste any more effort on him.

The jury system may be the best we have but consider its flaws when you have someone who's incapable of applying the law and facts no matter how clear. Defense lawyers must make their living off of people like this.

I don't put a lot of stock in the opinions of unexperienced choppers. Especially when it comes to judging the behavior of seasoned PGA tour pros that have already proven themselves. I stand by the decision the tour made when it chose not to press the issue against KP. As for your prior accusation, I don't know what you're referring to but if it was an argument with you I'm sure I was right then as well.

[Not a hacker]

Hey SBD1, this is an article just for you. Read the bottom of the first page to get a clear definition of what the the USGA thinks about patting down the grass behind the ball. I dug this up because I was trying to find somethng about the time the Shark pulled him on about improving his lie in a tournament, which is on the second page of this article. This new evidence provides irrefutable proof that Kenny Perry is a low life cheat, and is the new Jumbo Ozaki.

http://www.bradewartgolf.com/multime...iaclips029.pdf

P.S. This also means that anybody out there who does the same sort of thing as KP is also a cheat. I expect a full retraction of support for KP and grovelling apologies for all KP supporters in this argument.

P.S.S Would have loved to have been in that locker room when the fight broke out. I would have had Norman a short priced favourite if they actually came to blows. Jumbo was a big guy and had connections with the Yakuza, but the Shark had a reputation in Australia as a very good 'bluer' (Australian for fighter). The Shark was always a stickler to the rules and did not hesitate to pull anyone on he thought broke them (Mark McCumber waws another great stoush). I think it is one of his redeeming character traits.

[Not a hacker]

I don't put a lot of stock in the opinions of unexperienced choppers. Especially when it comes to judging the behavior of seasoned PGA tour pros that have already proven themselves. I stand by the decision the tour made when it chose not to press the issue against KP. As for your prior accusation, I don't know what you're referring to but if it was an argument with you I'm sure I was right then as well.

As was pointed out by an astute poster on this thread, ol Kenny 'addressed' the ball THREE TIMES with only one hand on the club. A single handed grip is the obvious grip one would for use for an up and down striking motion eg. driving a nail with a hammer or improving your lie in the rough. It is absolute bumkin to try and say he was just addressing the bal to aguage the lie ( and even this is a breach as addressing the ball means getting ready to play a shot, not guaging the lie). As I have pointed out from the old days of Jumbo Ozaki, Kenny Perry's actions are neither accepted by the Tour or tour players. It was just that it happened too long ago to make an issue of it now. If it was called by his partner at the time Perry would have been penalised. If Perry was partnered with Greg Norman he may have had trouble finding his missing teeth in that rough.

The fact Perry has come out and said (via his manager which is always the mark of a guilty person) he did nothing wrong just shows how much of a cheat he really is.

Maybe he forgot he wan't playing in his usual weak field events where they don't have so many cameras scrutinising every shot form various angles. IMO every achievement KP has ever made in golf must now be tainted. As cameras don't follow him around much unless he's in contention, he may be bending the rules every time he tees it up.

[SDB1]

Hey SBD1, this is an article just for you. Read the bottom of the first page to get a clear definition of what the the USGA thinks about patting down the grass behind the ball. I dug this up because I was trying to find somethng about the time the Shark pulled him on about improving his lie in a tournament, which is on the second page of this article. This new evidence provides irrefutable proof that Kenny Perry is a low life cheat, and is the new Jumbo Ozaki.

http://www.bradewartgolf.com/multime...iaclips029.pdf

P.S. This also means that anybody out there who does the same sort of thing as KP is also a cheat. I expect a full retraction of support for KP and grovelling apologies for all KP supporters in this argument.

P.S.S Would have loved to have been in that locker room when the fight broke out. I would have had Norman a short priced favourite if they actually came to blows. Jumbo was a big guy and had connections with the Yakuza, but the Shark had a reputation in Australia as a very good 'bluer' (Australian for fighter). The Shark was always a stickler to the rules and did not hesitate to pull anyone on he thought broke them (Mark McCumber waws another great stoush). I think it is one of his redeeming character traits.

Good article but it doesn't apply!

You need to review the film again. Don't look at his arm. Look at the club head. Both times he stomps the club down he's already moved the club closer to him off his line. When he sets the club behind the ball he does it lightly.

Jumbo had blatant rules infractions. KP didn't smack the club down to tee the ball up, he didn't stomp down the grass with his foot and he didn't press the grass down with his driver.

[SDB1]

As was pointed out by an astute poster on this thread, ol Kenny 'addressed' the ball THREE TIMES with only one hand on the club. A single handed grip is the obvious grip one would for use for an up and down striking motion eg. driving a nail with a hammer or improving your lie in the rough. It is absolute bumkin to try and say he was just addressing the bal to aguage the lie ( and even this is a breach as addressing the ball means getting ready to play a shot, not guaging the lie). As I have pointed out from the old days of Jumbo Ozaki, Kenny Perry's actions are neither accepted by the Tour or tour players. It was just that it happened too long ago to make an issue of it now. If it was called by his partner at the time Perry would have been penalised. If Perry was partnered with Greg Norman he may have had trouble finding his missing teeth in that rough.

The fact Perry has come out and said (via his manager which is always the mark of a guilty person) he did nothing wrong just shows how much of a cheat he really is.

Maybe he forgot he wan't playing in his usual weak field events where they don't have so many cameras scrutinising every shot form various angles. IMO every achievement KP has ever made in golf must now be tainted. As cameras don't follow him around much unless he's in contention, he may be bending the rules every time he tees it up.

You need to watch a bit more golf. Players always adress the ball with the right hand first. That is if they're right handed.

[Not a hacker]

Good article but it doesn't apply!

You need to review the film again. Don't look at his arm. Look at the club head. Both times he stomps the club down he's already moved the club closer to him off his line. When he sets the club behind the ball he does it lightly.

Jumbo had blatant rules infractions. KP didn't smack the club down to tee the ball up, he didn't stomp down the grass with his foot and he didn't press the grass down with his driver.

You yourself said he was trying to guage the lie at the back of his ball. That is against the rules. One of the fundamental rules of golf is to play it as it lies, not play it as it lies after you have used one hand to pat the grass down behind the ball. If he had done the same thing away from the ball i.e. a practice shot he would have been fine, but the fact is he did it behind the ball. As a hacker I regularly find myself in the rough, and as such I like to get some idea of the lie before addressing the ball. I usually play multiple practice swings to guage the rough, but I always do it well away from the ball. I know what the lie is like by looking at it, I don't need to pat the clubhead firmly into the grass directly behind the ball. KP's infraction was just as blatant as Jumbo's were. As you should agree, there is no more or less when it comes to breaking the rules. You either did or you didn't. One person cheating is no better or worse than another. KP broke the rules, but wasn't man enough to come out and admit it.

[SDB1]

You yourself said he was trying to guage the lie at the back of his ball. That is against the rules. One of the fundamental rules of golf is to play it as it lies, not play it as it lies after you have used one hand to pat the grass down behind the ball. If he had done the same thing away from the ball i.e. a practice shot he would have been fine, but the fact is he did it behind the ball. As a hacker I regularly find myself in the rough, and as such I like to get some idea of the lie before addressing the ball. I usually play multiple practice swings to guage the rough, but I always do it well away from the ball. I know what the lie is like by looking at it, I don't need to pat the clubhead firmly into the grass directly behind the ball. KP's infraction was just as blatant as Jumbo's were. As you should agree, there is no more or less when it comes to breaking the rules. You either did or you didn't. One person cheating is no better or worse than another. KP broke the rules, but wasn't man enough to come out and admit it.

Look, you keep coming back to the point that he broke the rules if he patted the grass down behind the ball. I won't argue with that. If he did pat the grass down directly behind the ball he's a cheater. My point was that in the video he was grounding his club on two different lines. One directly behind the ball and then again on a line closer to himself. When reviewing the video several times and only looking at his clubhead it looks as though he only pats the ground on the line closer to him. That wouldn't be a violation. I would also suspect that Faldo would have called him out since he was watching the footage at the time.

[Not a hacker]

Look, you keep coming back to the point that he broke the rules if he patted the grass down behind the ball. I won't argue with that. If he did pat the grass down directly behind the ball he's a cheater. My point was that in the video he was grounding his club on two different lines. One directly behind the ball and then again on a line closer to himself. When reviewing the video several times and only looking at his clubhead it looks as though he only pats the ground on the line closer to him. That wouldn't be a violation. I would also suspect that Faldo would have called him out since he was watching the footage at the time.

Faldo is an idiot who is more interested on reminding the viewers of how great he was than actually calling what is going on. Feherty mentioned the tough lie, but as he was on course wouldn't have had the benefit and the view from behind the ball that the cameras gave us so probably didn't see the improvement. If Feherty had seen it I'm sure he would have called it as, unlike Faldo, he is an astute analyst who watches what is going on and makes keen, intelligent comments, instead of taking viewers for trips down memory lane to his glory days.

[lorenzoinoc]

I don't put a lot of stock in the opinions of unexperienced choppers. Especially when it comes to judging the behavior of seasoned PGA tour pros that have already proven themselves. I stand by the decision the tour made when it chose not to press the issue against KP. As for your prior accusation, I don't know what you're referring to but if it was an argument with you I'm sure I was right then as well.

Actually, back then, you were shown to be completely wrong as proven by other members of the board, but sadly fell into the too stupid to know how stupid you are category, so pathetically stuck around for a while longer, arguing a position that an i.q over 65 would have thought was humor. (Sorry, didn't mean to bash the retarded with perhaps one exception).

After you started to suspect you were acting like a complete idiot around here (this is the amazing part - that you figured it out), you left with your tail between your legs for what's been a long time, but have now returned to show everyone that the boundaries of stupidity are actually much farther than anyone could previously have imagined.

If you want to be in the Guinness book of records, you have a shot. The tough part will be to prove you have a pulse.

[lorenzoinoc]

Faldo is an idiot who is more interested on reminding the viewers of how great he was than actually calling what is going on. Feherty mentioned the tough lie, but as he was on course wouldn't have had the benefit and the view from behind the ball that the cameras gave us so probably didn't see the improvement. If Feherty had seen it I'm sure he would have called it as, unlike Faldo, he is an astute analyst who watches what is going on and makes keen, intelligent comments, instead of taking viewers for trips down memory lane to his glory days.

NAH, at some point, you have to accept some people are simply OJ jury dumb and just can't grow any more brain cells. He doesn't understand anything you're saying and needs to let some governing body do his thinking for him.

Just be thankful you're not around when he needs to have somebody else do his wiping for him.

[Not a hacker]

NAH, at some point, you have to accept some people are simply OJ jury dumb and just can't grow any more brain cells. He doesn't understand anything you're saying and needs to let some governing body do his thinking for him.

Just be thankful you're not around when he needs to have somebody else do his wiping for him.

Yeah, you're right Zo, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to take a shot at the preening, posturing, pompous Pommy turd who masquerades as a golf analyst.

[SDB1]

Actually, back then, you were shown to be completely wrong as proven by other members of the board, but sadly fell into the too stupid to know how stupid you are category, so pathetically stuck around for a while longer, arguing a position that an i.q over 65 would have thought was humor. (Sorry, didn't mean to bash the retarded with perhaps one exception).

After you started to suspect you were acting like a complete idiot around here (this is the amazing part - that you figured it out), you left with your tail between your legs for what's been a long time, but have now returned to show everyone that the boundaries of stupidity are actually much farther than anyone could previously have imagined.

If you want to be in the Guinness book of records, you have a shot. The tough part will be to prove you have a pulse.

I realize that hackers like you will take several more years to catch up to nuances such as wedge lie and the Perry situation, so I cut you some slack. I can see you're really worked up about it and that's understandable. It happens to a lot of people when they are trying to comprehend something that is beyond their means. You've resorted to childish name calling which is the typical response for people with a low mental capacity. I'll leave it at that.

As for why I left. This site got boring. Spank started sending me pictures of his body parts and I'm just not into the **** thing that you guys seems to enjoy so much. The inside jokes and flaming are cool in moderation but this is a golf forum and it had pretty much gotten out of hand.