TP Black is Not Bad

[No_Idea]

[No_Idea]

If we sort them by spin rate. I think the best value for money will be Wilson Tx4.

[oldplayer]

Very interesting figures there. Backs up my feeling that the tp red I have switched to (from pro v1) is as good or better than the titleist. The spin is ok and it feels hotter and longer off the driver.

[dorkman53]

I can't decifer the TM website gobbledygook to understand the real differences between the TP Black and Red balls. I am inferring from the higher trajectory of the Black vs. the Red that the black is a higher spinning "iron and wedge control" ball and the red is the lower spinning "distance" ball. Am I correct, of does anybody know?
I'm thinking Bridgestone B300 vs. B300S, or Titleist Pro VIX vs. Pro VI analogies here.

[lorenzoinoc]

I saw those numbers maybe a year ago, switched to the TM's and have played them ever since. The difference between the red and black is the same as between the pro-v1 and the pro-v1x. The ink on the cover.

At least in Titleist's case, it's a classic Proctor & Gamble product differentiation strategy. Titleist doesn't know how to design their own ball, do you really think they can produce subtle performance differences in similar models? Don't be fooled 99.9% of the time.

I love that the pro-v and the Volvik Crystal are neighbors on the chart. I also loved that the Nike One Platinum is at the bottom.

[dorkman53]

I saw those numbers maybe a year ago, switched to the TM's and have played them ever since. The difference between the red and black is the same as between the pro-v1 and the pro-v1x. The ink on the cover.

At least in Titleist's case, it's a classic Proctor & Gamble product differentiation strategy. Titleist doesn't know how to design their own ball, do you really think they can produce subtle performance differences in similar models? Don't be fooled 99.9% of the time.

I love that the pro-v and the Volvik Crystal are neighbors on the chart. I also loved that the Nike One Platinum is at the bottom.

I actually tried a sleeve of Pro VI-X's a few years ago. Perhaps it was all psychological, but I didn't think it spun as well around the greens as the Pro VI.

[lorenzoinoc]

I actually tried a sleeve of Pro VI-X's a few years ago. Perhaps it was all psychological, but I didn't think it spun as well around the greens as the Pro VI.

Obviously a quality control problem.

[dorkman53]

Obviously a quality control problem.

...probably in my swing.....

[Kiwi Player]

...probably in my swing.....

... or in your $380 scratch wedges.

[lorenzoinoc]

... or in your $380 scratch wedges.

I'd swear you trained my ex.

[poe4soul]

What was the swing speed for these numbers? 100mph?

Is there that much diff in the trajectory between the red and the black? Is the red a better ball for windy conditions?

It's been stated over and over that the one platinum is designed for swing speeds in the high buck-teens. Not suitable for most hackers. The numbers of the one platinum is outstanding if you can swing at a tour swing speed otherwise they are crap.

[lorenzoinoc]

Poe, you're getting too technical with this. The purpose of the study was to support our personal biases.

BTW, competitive juniors with tour swing speeds are typically playing TM, Bridgestone or Titleist.

[poe4soul]

Just wondering. Our local shop has last years models of TM for under $30. I'm debating picking up a couple of boxes but not sure if I'd like the red or the black. Or maybe get one of each?

I usually don't buy golf balls because I find more of the quality balls that you mentioned than I loose but I have a tournament coming up so I want to use a single model for the next few rounds and chipping practice. This course usually has receptive greens so it's not going to be as much of an issue spin on the full swings but I do like using a softer covered ball.

[lorenzoinoc]

I've used mostly the TM for a while now. They aren't as scuff resistant as the Titleists, but not too bad and under 30 it's an easy decision. We had the same deal at our club. If it's for tournament play, you might make sure what you're buying is the newer conforming version. TM pulled the prior version because a small percentage weren't.

I use both the Red and Black. The Red feels a little firmer at impact but I don't notice any performance difference. I really think it is mostly branding.

Since you've got a pretty good swing speed, you might also try a sleeve of the Bridgestone. The covers are definitely firmer than the TM's but performance is really good with a 110+ wrt the 330 and 330S.

[connecticutter]

I got a 2 ball free sleeve from some promoition somewhere. They were pretty good from what I remember. A lot of spin without losing many yards. Finally, TM is doing something right. Though I have been tempted to buy one of those Rossa putters too.

[oldplayer]

... or in your $380 scratch wedges.

I'm with Lorenzo here, you are scary with that recall and nailing poor innocent guys with their own words.
You sure your feminine side is not getting too much of a run?

[dorkman53]

I've used mostly the TM for a while now. They aren't as scuff resistant as the Titleists, but not too bad and under 30 it's an easy decision. We had the same deal at our club. If it's for tournament play, you might make sure what you're buying is the newer conforming version. TM pulled the prior version because a small percentage weren't.

I use both the Red and Black. The Red feels a little firmer at impact but I don't notice any performance difference. I really think it is mostly branding.

Since you've got a pretty good swing speed, you might also try a sleeve of the Bridgestone. The covers are definitely firmer than the TM's but performance is really good with a 110+ wrt the 330 and 330S.

I've played the B330 S's, the B330-Rx's, and the Pro VI's. My take on them was that the Pro VI's were a little longer than the B330 S's but about equal to the B330-Rx's for my 95-98 mph swingspeed. However, the Pro VI's bite better on touch wedge shots than the B330-Rx's. I just wondered how the TM Black TP's would compare with the Pro VI's regarding driver distance and iron/wedge spin control. I personally like a higher spinning ball. I'm a straight enough hitter that I can afford a little more driver spin as a trade off for the advantage of a higher spinning ball for short distance work.

[oldplayer]

I've played the B330 S's, the B330-Rx's, and the Pro VI's. My take on them was that the Pro VI's were a little longer than the B330 S's but about equal to the B330-Rx's for my 95-98 mph swingspeed. However, the Pro VI's bite better on touch wedge shots than the B330-Rx's. I just wondered how the TM Black TP's would compare with the Pro VI's regarding driver distance and iron/wedge spin control. I personally like a higher spinning ball. I'm a straight enough hitter that I can afford a little more driver spin as a trade off for the advantage of a higher spinning ball for short distance work.

I have been paying the tp red for 3 months instead of the pro v1. If it's any help my take is that the tp red is a little longer off the driver but dosen't spin quite as much around the greens for touch shots etc. I was under the impression that the red was the softer feeling ball, (than the black) but I'm not so sure. As the figures say it may be the lower spinning of the two as taylormade say it dosen't go as high as the black.

[lorenzoinoc]

I've played the B330 S's, the B330-Rx's, and the Pro VI's. My take on them was that the Pro VI's were a little longer than the B330 S's but about equal to the B330-Rx's for my 95-98 mph swingspeed. However, the Pro VI's bite better on touch wedge shots than the B330-Rx's. I just wondered how the TM Black TP's would compare with the Pro VI's regarding driver distance and iron/wedge spin control. I personally like a higher spinning ball. I'm a straight enough hitter that I can afford a little more driver spin as a trade off for the advantage of a higher spinning ball for short distance work.

Driver distance is going to be related somewhat to your clubhead, shaft and personal launch characteristics. So the best thing is to try them out. For me, nothing goes further than the B330 unless it's cold out in which case I'm probably not adequately compressing them. But the TM-s seem to perform whatever the temp conditions are and feel softer and I like them better for putting.

I'll give up 5 yards with the driver to get a better putting ball for me any day.

[dorkman53]

I have been paying the tp red for 3 months instead of the pro v1. If it's any help my take is that the tp red is a little longer off the driver but dosen't spin quite as much around the greens for touch shots etc. I was under the impression that the red was the softer feeling ball, (than the black) but I'm not so sure. As the figures say it may be the lower spinning of the two as taylormade say it dosen't go as high as the black.

That was what I was assuming, trying to sift through the Madison Avenue TM website crapola.

[Kiwi Player]

I'm with Lorenzo here, you are scary with that recall and nailing poor innocent guys with their own words.
You sure your feminine side is not getting too much of a run?

Whoa whoa!!!

No way!!!

We were discussing the reason why the Pro V1x spins less than the Pro V1. We were just trying to get to the bottom of this very important issue. All I was doing was offering another possible reason.

Zo suggested it was a performance issue with the balls, DM suggested it was a performance issue with his swing and I suggested it could be a performance issue with the wedges. On the other hand it could be that the greens just weren't taking spin that day.

As for my amazing recall DM mentions his scratch wedges/irons often enough in discussion that any regular should know that.

[dorkman53]

Whoa whoa!!!

No way!!!

We were discussing the reason why the Pro V1x spins less than the Pro V1. We were just trying to get to the bottom of this very important issue. All I was doing was offering another possible reason.

Zo suggested it was a performance issue with the balls, DM suggested it was a performance issue with his swing and I suggested it could be a performance issue with the wedges. On the other hand it could be that the greens just weren't taking spin that day.

As for my amazing recall DM mentions his scratch wedges/irons often enough in discussion that any regular should know that.

The odd thing about the Scratch wedges is their ability to alter their playing characteristics depending on their internal electronic sensors which detect which ball I'm playing. It's clearly like your computer which knows which printer or other hardware peripherals you're using. When I'm using lower spinning balls, the wedge sensors immediately lower now much spin the clubs produce, and vice versa with higher spinning balls. It's amazing technology, and clearly justifies the higher price for the clubs........

[lorenzoinoc]

Whoa whoa!!!

No way!!!

We were discussing the reason why the Pro V1x spins less than the Pro V1. We were just trying to get to the bottom of this very important issue. All I was doing was offering another possible reason.

Zo suggested it was a performance issue with the balls, DM suggested it was a performance issue with his swing and I suggested it could be a performance issue with the wedges. On the other hand it could be that the greens just weren't taking spin that day.

As for my amazing recall DM mentions his scratch wedges/irons often enough in discussion that any regular should know that.

Well, we have the proof right here, OP. A series of denials that only could come from the dark recesses of the feminine mind.

[golfaholic]

Obviously a quality control problem.

No.

X's don't spin as much.

[No_Idea]

Below are the balls sorted by the spin rate.

Ball---------------------------------Distance------------Spin

Nike One Platinum-----------239.1-----------------13,451
Wilson Tx4----------------------252.6-----------------12,454
Nike One Black---------------249--------------------12,431
Titelist ProV1x-----------------250.4------------------12,299
Srixon Z-URC------------------247.2------------------12,250
Bridgestone E5+--------------252--------------------12,140
Bridgestone Tour B330-----253.9------------------12,137
Srixon Z-URS-------------------247.5-----------------12,137
TP Black--------------------------259.1-----------------12,062
Titelist ProV1--------------------249--------------------11,914
TP Red----------------------------258.6------------------11,872
Bridgestone Tour B330-S---255.2------------------11,866
Callaway HX Hot Bite---------249.3-----------------11,331
Taylor Made Burner TP------255.4-----------------10,894
Titleist NXT Tour ----------------254.2-----------------10,612
Wilson Zip-------------------------252.7----------------10,518
Callaway Tour i------------------253.7----------------10,473
Topflight Gamer------------------250.6---------------10,087
Callaway Tour ix-----------------253.4----------------9,990
Wilson Staff Fifty----------------251.8----------------9,546
Nike Karma------------------------250------------------9,256
Taylor Made Burner-------------255.4---------------9,242
Nike PD Soft----------------------255.9----------------8,888
Topflight D2 Feel----------------248.4-----------------8,808
Srixon AD 333-------------------249.9-----------------8,407
Precept Lady iQ180-----------255.2-----------------8,185
Callaway Big Bertha-----------252.8-----------------7,951
Srixon Trispeed------------------251.3-----------------7,814
Precept Distance iQ180------255.9-----------------7,790
Noodle+-----------------------------259--------------------7,789
Titleist DT Solo (2007)---------249.6-----------------7,758
Topflight XL Distance-----------248.6-----------------7,667
Bridgestone E6+-----------------251.7-----------------7,651
Noodle+ Lady---------------------257.1-----------------7,453
Nike Juice 312--------------------254.5-----------------7,192
Nike Ignite--------------------------249.1-----------------7,071
Callaway HX Hot-----------------253.9-----------------6,963
Titleist NXT Extreme-----------257.5------------------6,824
Precept Laddie X----------------256---------------------6,242
Callaway Warbird---------------251.9------------------6,111
Volvik Crystal---------------------248.5------------------5,986
Pinnacle Gold FX Long--------254.1------------------5,629
Topflight Freak--------------------254.5-----------------5,310
Pinnacle Gold FX Soft----------251--------------------5,154

[oldplayer]

Well, we have the proof right here, OP. A series of denials that only could come from the dark recesses of the feminine mind.

Well Lorenzo, this whole episode, and in hindsight many other incedents have put the thought into my mind; how do we actually know that Kiwi is a bloke?
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that Kiwi is actually a woman who gets a vicarious thrill from posing as a man on an anonymous internet board.
All that talk of drinking beer, and following rugby could be a clever ploy to distract us from the truth.There are frequent mentions of a wife also, possibly a ruse to throw us off the scent.
Perhaps she even knows your ex and they have cooked up a plan to keep track of you in an unusual way.
Am I onto something?

[lorenzoinoc]

If you're trying to make me paranoid, it's way too late. Fortunately for me there's an unconcealable level of evil as far as that goes.

But the rest of your theory is highly plausible. The proof is Kiwi insisting he's found a woman that isn't high maintenance or demanding. We all know the great one has never manufactured one free of those defects.

I anticipate Kiwi will deny all of this which would, of course, be further proof.

[poe4soul]

Doesn't make since to me. I know I spin the ProV way more than the ProV1. And the B330 spins more than the B330S. Isn't S for spin? WTF?

[lorenzoinoc]

Different drivers and launch conditions, temperature, humidity, etc. may produce different results, but I've always found the differences to be overstated in the case of Bridgestone. In the case of Titleist, I've always believed the ink in the cover is the biggest difference.

The TM's for me bear the biggest difference, even then not that much. None of us can completely block Madison Avenue hypnosis.

[poe4soul]

I don't agree. I can spin the shiat out of a 330-s but the 330 is controllable. The ProV's and Prov1's are similar.

Maybe it's your MP-R wedges. They are great for spin control. I wish Muzzy made the in a wider variety of bounces/lofts for LH. I would have stayed with them instead of the VK's.

[daveperkins]

That chart shows what the Taylormade guy said on TV, that the TP Black and Red are very similar in spin rate, with the red being preferred by the TM pros. All other characteristics are nearly identical... distance off driver, feel, etc.

and I've been playing them for a couple years now, wonderful golf balls.

[Kiwi Player]

The proof is Kiwi insisting he's found a woman that isn't high maintenance or demanding.

Wow Lorenzo. Fancy remembering that! You are scary with that recall and nailing poor innocent guys with their own words!

[lorenzoinoc]

I don't agree. I can spin the shiat out of a 330-s but the 330 is controllable. The ProV's and Prov1's are similar.

Maybe it's your MP-R wedges. They are great for spin control. I wish Muzzy made the in a wider variety of bounces/lofts for LH. I would have stayed with them instead of the VK's.

Good point. I like those wedges for precisely that reason.

[lorenzoinoc]

Wow Lorenzo. Fancy remembering that! You are scary with that recall and nailing poor innocent guys with their own words!

Aha! Completely turning things around is more evidence!!

Actually, I thought that might impress you. It was the only time I'd ever heard a "guy" say that.

[Kiwi Player]

Actually, I thought that might impress you. It was the only time I'd ever heard a "guy" say that.

Maybe I was exaggerating. It was probably just a 'relative reference' thing compared to the psychotic, schizophrenic, nutcase I was with previously.

[lorenzoinoc]

Hmm....exageration is more of a male trait. So is a willingness to admit to having erred.

I was considering going back to see if there was a pattern of b!tchiness in your posts at a certain time of month, but I don't think that's necessary now.

[oldplayer]

Hmm....exageration is more of a male trait. So is a willingness to admit to having erred.

I was considering going back to see if there was a pattern of b!tchiness in your posts at a certain time of month, but I don't think that's necessary now.

It was only a theory.
I can relax now, just like playing 18 on Saturday. Feel relaxed with no chicks in the group.

[Kiwi Player]

It was only a theory.
I can relax now, just like playing 18 on Saturday. Feel relaxed with no chicks in the group.

Glad I could put your mind at ease OP.

I was ready to follow your advice & "Stop Digging"

[Not a hacker]

The interesting thing from that chart was the high spin rates of the Nike One's and the lowspin rates of the Cally's. There is no way those spin rates directly relate to stopping power on the greens. The Cally i has plenty of stopping power. Those results must be for slow swing speeds. I'd imagine at higher speeds that list would be completely different.

[No_Idea]

If I am not mistaken the swing speed for test was about 95 mph.

[Not a hacker]

If I am not mistaken the swing speed for test was about 95 mph.

That makes that chart totally irrelevant for most of us. I swing at 105 mph and I would bet that the numbers on that chart would be completely different to what I came up with.

[SoonerBS]

Very interesting figures there. Backs up my feeling that the tp red I have switched to (from pro v1) is as good or better than the titleist. The spin is ok and it feels hotter and longer off the driver.

OP, they are running a big sale on TP Reds and TP Blacks right now. I love the Titty Pro V1x balls, but I couldn't resist the temptation to by 4 dozen TP Reds for $110.00 and try them out. I'll be using them in my games over the next couple of weeks . . . .

[oldplayer]

OP, they are running a big sale on TP Reds and TP Blacks right now. I love the Titty Pro V1x balls, but I couldn't resist the temptation to by 4 dozen TP Reds for $110.00 and try them out. I'll be using them in my games over the next couple of weeks . . . .

I'm very happy with them. Good luck and let us know how you go.