Professional Iron Distances VS's Non Professional?

[koltaustin]

This may be a bit of a silly question, but is there something different about the Pro Golfers clubs than the ones we can buy stock? I mean these guys are hitting 6 irons into 210yard par3's? Is that for real, or do there 6 irons have the loft of my 3 iron, lol?

I mean, I just don't see how their club speed could be so much faster and stronger than mine when I'm a bloody 23 year old in pretty damn good condition and I have to get down on my 6 iron hard to get it 180!

[alangbaker]

This may be a bit of a silly question, but is there something different about the Pro Golfers clubs than the ones we can buy stock? I mean these guys are hitting 6 irons into 210yard par3's? Is that for real, or do there 6 irons have the loft of my 3 iron, lol?

I mean, I just don't see how their club speed could be so much faster and stronger than mine when I'm a bloody 23 year old in pretty damn good condition and I have to get down on my 6 iron hard to get it 180!

1. No: there is nothing particularly special about the pro's equipment.

2. Get over it: they are *better* than you are.

[oldplayer]

It's not just about swing speed and power with the pros. It's all about timeing and pure contact. They really trap and compress the ball in order to hit the distances they do.

[GoHuskers]

Well I'll say this. They don't have to submit their equipment for conformation testing. Its very possible that they have equipment that exceeds the maximum Coefficient of Restitution. Not that I'm calling every professional golfer a cheater but its shameless to watch them take a stance the opposite direction from the hole to prove that their foot can touch the cartpath. Thereby entitling them relief from the cartpath when the really want relief from a bad lie (Sergio). They all have the motive.
The most likely answer is that the professional distance is a result of countless hours of grooving the most efficient swing possible to generate clubhead speed and a high smash factor. Those guys really have to grind it out and I don't envy them at all.
(but I do hate players that disgrace the customs of golf to WIN AT ALL COSTS)
Besides non conforming COR would only boost your distance at maximum 17 percent. Unless you used a non conforming ball too. The ball has a COR limit and I recall reading somewhere that its .75
I wouldn't want a ball that perfoms beyond that because they'd be really hard to control in the short game. Unless it also was non conforming to the maximum spin...
They really need to test those guys equipment before it becomes an issue like steroids in baseball.

[Pky6471]

Keep in mind that they are better ball strikers than all of us... i.e. they can hit a ball at the center of a club face most of the time....
Consider yourself lucky that you can hit 180 with a 6 iron, that's respectable distance in my opinion

[dorkman53]

Face it, folks. These guys are just playing on a different skill level than anybody on this board. To simply get on the PGA Tour requires a tremendous amount of skill. The guy who is 160th on the money list is still a superb player. He just doesn't do it with the same consistency as someone in the top 30. That's why occasionally someone will come out of nowhere and win a tournament, then not be heard of again. They all have the skills, but they don't all have the course management, nerves of steel, clutch putting ability, or consistency to be frequent contenders. They are all good ballstrikers.

[connecticutter]

In addition to the greater skill levels they possess in hitting the ball pure on a frequent basis, and the amount of drag they get in their shots, many of them are practically weight lifters with the best trainers, nutritionists and sports psychologists money can buy. I would not be surprised if there was an issue with performance enhancers and I would like to see testing on the tour. Gary Player suspected this back in the 1970s or 1980s. I think John Daly suspected this as well. They often dont pay for their equipment unless if they get a club (a wood/hybrid, wedge or putter) that is outside of their endorser's product list. So, they have these clubs fitted to exactly what their swing needs are, so they get maximum power out of their equipment. Don't forget, we often do not have 4 to 10 hours a day to devote to practice either.

180 yards for a 6 iron is a pretty good distance. I get 180-185 yards out of my 6 iron and I am two clubs longer than most of the mid handicappers I play with. A 180 yard 6 iron is not that far off the mark from a lot of pros. I hear a lot of pros hitting 190 yard 6 irons, so you are right there. There are some monsters on tour who can get a 215 yard 6 iron though.

[koltaustin]

1. No: there is nothing particularly special about the pro's equipment.

2. Get over it: they are *better* than you are.

LMAO, someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed?


And yeah, I guess it does depend greatly on circumstance, ball striking, and numerous other factors. Hell just today I saw most of the field hit 3 wood into a 230yd par 3, all but Tiger while I was watching, he used 3 iron and came up a bit short. But he showed why he didn't hit 3 wood on the 18th, drove with his 3 there and hit it 310 according to the announcers.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses guys, told you it was a bit silly. Good day all.

[alangbaker]

LMAO, someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

Not at all. I was just being direct.

Remember: your humour may not have been apparent in written form.

And yeah, I guess it does depend greatly on circumstance, ball striking, and numerous other factors. Hell just today I saw most of the field hit 3 wood into a 230yd par 3, all but Tiger while I was watching, he used 3 iron and came up a bit short. But he showed why he didn't hit 3 wood on the 18th, drove with his 3 there and hit it 310 according to the announcers.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses guys, told you it was a bit silly. Good day all.

You too.

[Kiwi Player]

Is there something different about the Pro tennis players racquets than the ones we can buy stock? I mean Andy Roddick is hitting 135 mph serves? I mean common? My fastest serve is about 90 mph?

[lorenzoinoc]

Is there something different about a race car driver's car? I have a pretty good car but I can't seem to get the handling or acceleration they get. I think they're cheating.

I've already figured out that pro bowlers cheat, so I don't need to ask.

[collegegolfer]

Do remember the announcers are there to hype as well. Television does not do the actual course justice. For instance...I have played a few Tour level courses and there is more elevation change than you notice on TV on many of them. They might be hitting a 6 iron downhill 210 that is more like 180-190 because of elevation. The distances the announcers give are also not necessarily measured to where the pin actually is. It might be 210 to the middle of a green and 180 to make the front portion with a flat or downhill green to the hole. So when the announcer says, "210" and there's a front pin it's really a lot closer with a front pin. Listen some times...the guys in the booth will say on some holes "6 iron from 210 on this par 3" and every once in a while the guy on the course will say, "yeah, the tees are moved a bit ahead today so it's not quite playing that distance." Most people probably miss it but the announcers don't always give accurate info and they don't want to take the hype away by giving the elevation changes or the fact the wind is behind, etc. I do believe they are capable of those shots, but I don't think they actually hit clubs like that unless it's a specific situation and I think the TV announcers like creating the drama.

[BrianMcG]

Also, sometimes the caddies give the t.v. guys wrong information. They could be 175 out and hitting a 5 iron, and the caddie flashes a 7. Then the announcers say they are hitting a 7 iron. They do that all the time.

[Not a hacker]

This may be a bit of a silly question, but is there something different about the Pro Golfers clubs than the ones we can buy stock? I mean these guys are hitting 6 irons into 210yard par3's? Is that for real, or do there 6 irons have the loft of my 3 iron, lol?

I mean, I just don't see how their club speed could be so much faster and stronger than mine when I'm a bloody 23 year old in pretty damn good condition and I have to get down on my 6 iron hard to get it 180!

Remember that one time when you were on the range and you got one shot when the stars all lined up, you got your weight shifting perfectly over a firm left side whilst maintaining perfect spine angles, you released fully and you got absolutely pure contact flush in the middle of the sweetspot and marvelled as it flew on a perfect trajectory twenty yards past the last 10 shots you hit?

That's a stock shot for a tour pro. As Alan said they are beter than you. Not only are they better, they are consistently better shot after shot. Natural talent and practice. You need both, but most of us try to make do with practice.

I also have no doubt Brian is on the money about the caddies playing ducks and drakes with the field reporters too.

[dano8238]

Remember that one time when you were on the range and you got one shot when the stars all lined up, you got your weight shifting perfectly over a firm left side whilst maintaining perfect spine angles, you released fully and you got absolutely pure contact flush in the middle of the sweetspot and marvelled as it flew on a perfect trajectory twenty yards past the last 10 shots you hit?

That's a stock shot for a tour pro. As Alan said they are beter than you. Not only are they better, they are consistently better shot after shot. Natural talent and practice. You need both, but most of us try to make do with practice.

I also have no doubt Brian is on the money about the caddies playing ducks and drakes with the field reporters too.

Does that mean kenny perry is better, tell me its not so....

[Horseballs]

I've been to The Memorial a bunch of times and am absolutely amazed by the quality of shots the pros play. Even the guys you think have chopperesque swings look absolutely fluid and perfectly balanced in person. The one myth that people have about the pros is that they don't swing hard. They may be in balanced and not overswinging, but they take a healthy cut at it with every club in the bag.

[poe4soul]

Not to mention that the fairways are mowed to green height. Watched Tiger shot on 18 yesterday and the ball rolled out at least 40 yards. That's not including the 3 bounces before the roll. I bet he got 60 yards of bounce and roll. That's a carry of about 250 which is long for a draw 3 wood but it's not crazy long.

Putting is where it's at. Hunter was on fire. He made every putt in sight. To me that's mad skills. Many of these guys can blow a shot off the tee, an approach, etc. but if they miss putts they fall fast on the leader board. Look at AK, he missed at least 6 make-able putts and that put him out of contention more than any of his bad drives. There are many good ball strikers out their but if you can't putt you'll go nowhere on the Tour.

[Not a hacker]

I've been to The Memorial a bunch of times and am absolutely amazed by the quality of shots the pros play. Even the guys you think have chopperesque swings look absolutely fluid and perfectly balanced in person. The one myth that people have about the pros is that they don't swing hard. They may be in balanced and not overswinging, but they take a healthy cut at it with every club in the bag.

Gotta agree with you on this one. When I was out at the range at last years Oz Open, I was blown away by the consistent smoothness of their swings. Every one of them looked like they had the best swing I'd ever seen. I also agree they were going at it pretty hard, albeit in perfect balance. The thing that impressed me the most was their ball flight. They were getting the sort of flight I get on maybe one or two shots a round every time. Every shot was launching low, rising to an apex at the end of it's flight and just dropping out of the sky from an unbelieveable height.

[Not a hacker]

Not to mention that the fairways are mowed to green height. Watched Tiger shot on 18 yesterday and the ball rolled out at least 40 yards. That's not including the 3 bounces before the roll. I bet he got 60 yards of bounce and roll. That's a carry of about 250 which is long for a draw 3 wood but it's not crazy long.

Putting is where it's at. Hunter was on fire. He made every putt in sight. To me that's mad skills. Many of these guys can blow a shot off the tee, an approach, etc. but if they miss putts they fall fast on the leader board. Look at AK, he missed at least 6 make-able putts and that put him out of contention more than any of his bad drives. There are many good ball strikers out their but if you can't putt you'll go nowhere on the Tour.

I don't have any stats to back me up, but I think if you disected a pro's and amatuers golf game, the biggest contrast would in shots from within 100 yards of the green, and especially chips and pitches from close in. I've played with plenty of amatuers who can really hit a good ball, and some who can putt the dots off it, but I've never played in a group with a pro where any amatuer has got remotely close the pro when it comes to shots around the green. Putting is definitely what seperates the pros from each other, but the rest of the short game is what really seperates the pros from us hackers.

[ChapCat]

Face it, folks. These guys are just playing on a different skill level than anybody on this board. To simply get on the PGA Tour requires a tremendous amount of skill. The guy who is 160th on the money list is still a superb player. He just doesn't do it with the same consistency as someone in the top 30. That's why occasionally someone will come out of nowhere and win a tournament, then not be heard of again. They all have the skills, but they don't all have the course management, nerves of steel, clutch putting ability, or consistency to be frequent contenders. They are all good ballstrikers.

Gotta agree with you on this one. When I was out at the range at last years Oz Open, I was blown away by the consistent smoothness of their swings. Every one of them looked like they had the best swing I'd ever seen. I also agree they were going at it pretty hard, albeit in perfect balance. The thing that impressed me the most was their ball flight. They were getting the sort of flight I get on maybe one or two shots a round every time. Every shot was launching low, rising to an apex at the end of it's flight and just dropping out of the sky from an unbelieveable height.

I know exactly what you guys mean.

Back in the mid nineties, I had the good fortune to take lessons from a PGA pro by the name of Wes Short Jr, For those who may not be familiar with him, he went on to later play on the Nationwide tour and then earning his PGA tour card, went on to win at Las Vegas in a playoff over Jim Furyk.

During one lesson with him, he did something that mightily impressed me. He pulled a cheapo beat up Golfsmith 9i out of my bag and with it struck the most perfect shot I had ever seen that close up. That nine iron he hit had the highest trajectory and longest length I had seen for that club in person as well as being on target. Wes is not all that tall, but that club was an inch and a quarter over length and 2 degrees upright, fitted to me, and I'm 6'6'. These guys are indeed on another level, and the thing about Wes Short Jr is that only die hard fans have probably ever heard of him.

[collegegolfer]

I don't have any stats to back me up, but I think if you disected a pro's and amatuers golf game, the biggest contrast would in shots from within 100 yards of the green, and especially chips and pitches from close in. I've played with plenty of amatuers who can really hit a good ball, and some who can putt the dots off it, but I've never played in a group with a pro where any amatuer has got remotely close the pro when it comes to shots around the green. Putting is definitely what seperates the pros from each other, but the rest of the short game is what really seperates the pros from us hackers.

I have had the luck to play with or near a few golfers from my area who play/played on the Nationwide Tour and other smaller mini tours. It's the short game. Watch it on TV. I strike the ball very purely and rarely miss greens in regulation. On days when my putter is working and I'm getting up and down...I go VERY low...low to mid 60's. The problem is, I also have just as many days where my short game disappears. I'm definitely not consistent enough to make a pro tour, but on the days when the putter and wedges are hot...I guarantee I could come close to beating a PGA pro. The problem is, if we played 20 times I'd probably be close 1 or 2 times.

[Not a hacker]

I have had the luck to play with or near a few golfers from my area who play/played on the Nationwide Tour and other smaller mini tours. It's the short game. Watch it on TV. I strike the ball very purely and rarely miss greens in regulation. On days when my putter is working and I'm getting up and down...I go VERY low...low to mid 60's. The problem is, I also have just as many days where my short game disappears. I'm definitely not consistent enough to make a pro tour, but on the days when the putter and wedges are hot...I guarantee I could come close to beating a PGA pro. The problem is, if we played 20 times I'd probably be close 1 or 2 times.

An old Jack Nicklaus quote would be relevant to you. In his Playing Lessons book he said that his main goal as a golfer is not to hit better shots, but to minimise the gap between his best shots and worst shots. I think every golfer who has ever broken 80 (or even 90) can hit individual shots as good as a pro, but the pro's just don't hit the really bad shots. Their bad shots are still acceptable. I think most of us can recall two or three real stinkers each round that have cost us heaps of shots. Last weekend I duffed an 8 iron and 9 iron from the middle of the fairway and took double bogey/bogey on holes that would have been good birdie opportunities with good shots. That's at least 3 shots turnaround right there from poorly executed easy shots. Add up the flat out dumb plays I went for that also didn't come off and I was at least 6 shots worse than I could have been (and even with all these chops I still shot 9 over without sinking anything from outside 6 feet). I'm sure we all go there most rounds.

[collegegolfer]

An old Jack Nicklaus quote would be relevant to you. In his Playing Lessons book he said that his main goal as a golfer is not to hit better shots, but to minimise the gap between his best shots and worst shots. I think every golfer who has ever broken 80 (or even 90) can hit individual shots as good as a pro, but the pro's just don't hit the really bad shots. Their bad shots are still acceptable. I think most of us can recall two or three real stinkers each round that have cost us heaps of shots. Last weekend I duffed an 8 iron and 9 iron from the middle of the fairway and took double bogey/bogey on holes that would have been good birdie opportunities with good shots. That's at least 3 shots turnaround right there from poorly executed easy shots. Add up the flat out dumb plays I went for that also didn't come off and I was at least 6 shots worse than I could have been (and even with all these chops I still shot 9 over without sinking anything from outside 6 feet). I'm sure we all go there most rounds.

That is really true. In playing with family and friends who are not low or plus handicappers, they are amazed at how few bad shots I hit. I'll get ticked on a par 5 when I hit 3 wood from 260 and push it right of the green. They think it's amazing. I'll still make par, or possibly birdie if I get up and down, but I feel like I missed a chance. I don't think I've had a double bogey in the last 5 rounds I've played. That's the difference between me +1.6 hdcp and a 5 hdcp. My misses are still manageable. But I still make too many bogeys and not enough birdies in a typical round to be Tour level. And that comes down to short game...getting up and down and putting better. I 3 putted twice today for bogeys, which is TOTALLY unacceptable in my mind. But to a 15 handicap might be something they're happy with.

One guy I know who missed the q-school cut by a couple strokes two years in a row (final stage both years) worked with me on making my misses good enough to stay in play. Some was course management thinking and some was how to swing (physically) in certain situations.

[Not a hacker]

That is really true. In playing with family and friends who are not low or plus handicappers, they are amazed at how few bad shots I hit. I'll get ticked on a par 5 when I hit 3 wood from 260 and push it right of the green. They think it's amazing. I'll still make par, or possibly birdie if I get up and down, but I feel like I missed a chance. I don't think I've had a double bogey in the last 5 rounds I've played. That's the difference between me +1.6 hdcp and a 5 hdcp. My misses are still manageable. But I still make too many bogeys and not enough birdies in a typical round to be Tour level. And that comes down to short game...getting up and down and putting better. I 3 putted twice today for bogeys, which is TOTALLY unacceptable in my mind. But to a 15 handicap might be something they're happy with.

I shoot around my 10 cap, but I still manage to have only bogeys and the very occassional double so I am probably getting closer to where I want to be, as now a bogey is a bad score instead of double or triple. Having said that I've only been hitting around 5 GIR lately so I'm looking at lots of medium length par putts instead of birdie putts. My bogies are usually tap-ins but my mid/short iron game is my main let down at the moment.

[collegegolfer]

I shoot around my 10 cap, but I still manage to have only bogeys and the very occassional double so I am probably getting closer to where I want to be, as now a bogey is a bad score instead of double or triple. Having said that I've only been hitting around 5 GIR lately so I'm looking at lots of medium length par putts instead of birdie putts. My bogies are usually tap-ins but my mid/short iron game is my main let down at the moment.

One thing my almost q-school passing acquaintance taught me dealt with hitting more GIRs. He got me into using 1/2 and 3/4 irons and always making sure I know where the FJ is pointing on the back of my glove. Told me to hit buckets of balls until I could feel the relationship between FJ location and where the ball ends up. Then, with a 1/2 or 3/4 swing being so much smoother, you're able to manipulate that FJ location and rarely miss a green. At first it didn't do much...but after a year of range balls it made a HUGE difference and now that's one of my swing thoughts...where's the FJ on my glove? But it's feel and I still dont' always do it. For instance I closed it down a bit today and hit a slight draw left of a green. But that violated his other rule...pin tucked to the edges, in the case today left edge with bunkers left...hit to the middle and get the FJ logo to square or a little closed in that situation. Opposite advice for a right pin. You might not be close, but you hit a green and gave yourself a much better chance at making birdie than with a chip.

[Not a hacker]

One thing my almost q-school passing acquaintance taught me dealt with hitting more GIRs. He got me into using 1/2 and 3/4 irons and always making sure I know where the FJ is pointing on the back of my glove. Told me to hit buckets of balls until I could feel the relationship between FJ location and where the ball ends up. Then, with a 1/2 or 3/4 swing being so much smoother, you're able to manipulate that FJ location and rarely miss a green. At first it didn't do much...but after a year of range balls it made a HUGE difference and now that's one of my swing thoughts...where's the FJ on my glove? But it's feel and I still dont' always do it. For instance I closed it down a bit today and hit a slight draw left of a green. But that violated his other rule...pin tucked to the edges, in the case today left edge with bunkers left...hit to the middle and get the FJ logo to square or a little closed in that situation. Opposite advice for a right pin. You might not be close, but you hit a green and gave yourself a much better chance at making birdie than with a chip.

Good advice. Just wish I was young enough and free enough to have the time to practice. I've just gotta find a way to hit more greens. But in my defence our greens are like postage stamps so my misses are still usually pretty close to the pin so I get up and down a bit.

[collegegolfer]

Good advice. Just wish I was young enough and free enough to have the time to practice. I've just gotta find a way to hit more greens. But in my defence our greens are like postage stamps so my misses are still usually pretty close to the pin so I get up and down a bit.

I was young enough and free enough to practice that 9 years ago. If I learned it today I wouldn't be. Thankfully I play very little now (usually 18-36 holes/week) but what I learned when I was young is such muscle memory I haven't moved backward from where I was at. But I haven't become substantially better either...because I don't have time to practice like I used to.

[Kiwi Player]

I 3 putted twice today for bogeys, which is TOTALLY unacceptable in my mind. But to a 15 handicap might be something they're happy with.

No way!!!

That is totally unacceptable to me too and I'm playing off 13 at the moment. Whilst a bogie is acceptable any three putt is unacceptable but especially annoying when you're on in regulation.

On the weekend I found my swing midway through the back nine and hit every GIR from 13-18 which is rare for me. I drained a long birdie putt on 14 but three putted 15 & 17 to ruin what would have been a good finish.

I don't think ANY golfer is happy to three putt - except for Larryrsf of course. He only cares about fairways hit and GIR.

[Not a hacker]

No way!!!

That is totally unacceptable to me too and I'm playing off 13 at the moment. Whilst a bogie is acceptable any three putt is unacceptable but especially annoying when you're on in regulation.

On the weekend I found my swing midway through the back nine and hit every GIR from 13-18 which is rare for me. I drained a long birdie putt on 14 but three putted 15 & 17 to ruin what would have been a good finish.

I don't think ANY golfer is happy to three putt - except for Larryrsf of course. He only cares about fairways hit and GIR.

Larry isn't happy or angry about 3 putts, because he actually never 3 putts. Or 2 putts or even 1 putts. He just picks his ball up and walks to the next tee, and obviously fills his card in on what he thought he should have got. Apparently Hogan used to do the same thing back in the 50's so it's obviously relevant.

[alangbaker]

Larry isn't happy or angry about 3 putts, because he actually never 3 putts. Or 2 putts or even 1 putts. He just picks his ball up and walks to the next tee, and obviously fills his card in on what he thought he should have got. Apparently Hogan used to do the same thing back in the 50's so it's obviously relevant.

Not anymore he doesn't. I think his club finally read him the riot act:

Larry's index

All of a sudden, the guy who claimed to have been a "6" can barely break 100.

:-)

[Horseballs]

I agree in principle about 3 putting, but there are some circumstances where 3 putts are bound to happen, at least at the SPCC. Some of our greens have ridiculous back to front break.
Also, when I'm playing and putting well, I still almost always have a 3 putt or 2. There is a make-it mentality that can lead to a lot of 1 putts and a some 3 putts as well. I don't beat myself up about an aggressive 1st putt that leads to a 3 jack, as long as I didn't totally missread or misshit the putt.

[The Purist]

This weekend, there was a stretch on the back nine where almost every approach was between 180 and 190 yrds for Tiger and AK. Tiger was usually hitting 6iron and AK was hitting 5 iron.

[poe4soul]

Didn't Tiger go back to his old set of clubs? Aren't they also traditional lofts not the strong lofts AK is playing.

[SDB1]

I agree in principle about 3 putting, but there are some circumstances where 3 putts are bound to happen, at least at the SPCC. Some of our greens have ridiculous back to front break.
Also, when I'm playing and putting well, I still almost always have a 3 putt or 2. There is a make-it mentality that can lead to a lot of 1 putts and a some 3 putts as well. I don't beat myself up about an aggressive 1st putt that leads to a 3 jack, as long as I didn't totally missread or misshit the putt.

This is actually a really good attitude to have. You have to be aggressive to score low. If I'm trying to prevent 3 putts all day then I'm leaving putts short all day as well. I've been working real hard at trying to be more aggressive on the first putt.

[Yanger]

Here are just some observations from playing on the mini tours a while back:

-Everyone at that level hits the ball relatively long - atleast within a club of one another.

-They are far more consistant in GIR from the 175-200 range than the higher ranked amatuers, even more so for the guys at the highest levels.

-The are plain better from 130 yrds and in - wedges, short game, putting.

-Golf course management is something they know and live by. They play the percantages - fairways, proper side of the greens, hitting it to "money" distances.

[Kiwi Player]

Not anymore he doesn't. I think his club finally read him the riot act:

Larry's index

All of a sudden, the guy who claimed to have been a "6" can barely break 100.

:-)

So do you think the 75 posted in Jan 08 was pure fabrication or did Larry just do what NAH was suggesting, pick up his ball without putting - or counting the putts?

[Kiwi Player]

I agree in principle about 3 putting, but there are some circumstances where 3 putts are bound to happen, at least at the SPCC. Some of our greens have ridiculous back to front break.
Also, when I'm playing and putting well, I still almost always have a 3 putt or 2. There is a make-it mentality that can lead to a lot of 1 putts and a some 3 putts as well. I don't beat myself up about an aggressive 1st putt that leads to a 3 jack, as long as I didn't totally missread or misshit the putt.

Yeah I agree with this too. If you are hitting greens from a long way 200+ out and leaving a long 1st putt some three putts are inevitable. In that situation I am happy to just lag it close. Not sure I agree with you about an aggressive 1st putt though. IMO good speed is just as important as the line when reading a putt. I always factor in the speed when reading the break.

[alangbaker]

So do you think the 75 posted in Jan 08 was pure fabrication or did Larry just do what NAH was suggesting, pick up his ball without putting - or counting the putts?

I think he was probably on the golf course and hitting golf balls, but other than that, I don't know.

What I do know is that nobody who can shoot 80 or below as many times as Larry claims to have done in the preceding two years suddenly starts posting scores of around 100 every time out. Hell, I've never claimed to be a 6 handicap, and my worst single score since June of last year is a 93 and one 9 hole score of 48.

[The Purist]

Didn't Tiger go back to his old set of clubs? Aren't they also traditional lofts not the strong lofts AK is playing.

There was only a 2* difference between the VR's and the old blades. I think the old blades had the square grooves and the new ones have the V grooves, but I swear I heard an announcer say that Tiger was playing v-grooves this week.

[Not a hacker]

Not anymore he doesn't. I think his club finally read him the riot act:

Larry's index

All of a sudden, the guy who claimed to have been a "6" can barely break 100.

:-)

Fark! What a chopper. He must be the talk of the club with a 6 handicap playing like that.

[GoHuskers]

I think he was probably on the golf course and hitting golf balls, but other than that, I don't know.

What I do know is that nobody who can shoot 80 or below as many times as Larry claims to have done in the preceding two years suddenly starts posting scores of around 100 every time out. Hell, I've never claimed to be a 6 handicap, and my worst single score since June of last year is a 93 and one 9 hole score of 48.

I could've said my worst score in a year was a 94. Then I had a meltdown. As far as handicaps go I don't know why guys are so fanatical about keeping them. My life has enough $hit to maintain. I guess it must have something to do with handicap tournaments.

I don't think I'll ever get involved in those because handicap tournament = may the biggest cheater win.

I figured my handicap manually for a while until I realized they revised it to a 20 score floating index with complicated rules that are supposed to be harder to manipulate. Nothing is hard to manipulate when you post a score based on your honor.

[alangbaker]

Fark! What a chopper. He must be the talk of the club with a 6 handicap playing like that.

I think you meant "laughingstock" not "talk"...

[alangbaker]

I could've said my worst score in a year was a 94. Then I had a meltdown. As far as handicaps go I don't know why guys are so fanatical about keeping them. My life has enough $hit to maintain. I guess it must have something to do with handicap tournaments.

Oh, I've had meltdowns. It's just that as your game advances, your meltdowns do, too.

My latest was an 86...

36 front, 50 back .

I don't think I'll ever get involved in those because handicap tournament = may the biggest cheater win.

There are golf events where I'm involved where the organizer would prefer an official handicap, and I find it a useful way to keep track of my progress.

I figured my handicap manually for a while until I realized they revised it to a 20 score floating index with complicated rules that are supposed to be harder to manipulate. Nothing is hard to manipulate when you post a score based on your honor.

True enough. But the fact that other people lack honour is no reason to change how you want to be as a person. There are lots of free handicap sites that pretty much take all the work out of it for you.

http://www.digitaldivot.com

That's one I used for a while.