Drop it under

[Larryrsf]

This was most of my recent lesson. He is teaching me to swing on plane. I make a connected backswing on plane by starting it back with hands over my toes (not further out) and by keeping the club shaft under that PVC pipe--but not further inside. I get the shaft about vertical and then continue turning and tilting my upper body back as I shift my weight to my front leg. That puts the club on plane, pointing the butt of the club at the target line through the ball. Then I swing through and the club shaft should remain under the PVC pipe as the clubhead approaches the ball- "drop it under." was what he instructed me to do when I reached the top position.

He gave this lesson by holding a golf club shaft horizontal outside my club shaft just under my hands. This PVC pipe does the same thing. And having the pipe still there for the downswing gives me a visual target to avoid as I downswing.

This is NOT easy, BTW. But it is the way good players swing; I hope I can learn it. I set this up and took a couple of swings and hit the pipe as my club swung "out and over" instead of "down and under." I have work to do--but the first step is learning that I was doing it wrong --and how to do it right.

YouTube - Drop it under.wmv

The next generation of this training aid will have two PVC pipes about 2 feet long replacing the chair.

This is good stuff--and feels VERY different-- which shows me how fundamentally AWFUL my golf swing has been. No wonder I was always decelerating, fighting OTT, etc.

My pro said many touring pros actually touch their pants with the butt of the club as the downswing starts-- and that Hogan wore a spot in his pants in front of his right hip.

Another way to practice this is to swing under a rope about 2 feet high. You can't hit balls, of course, because whatever you tie the front end of the rope to is in your ball flight path.

This is very related to Jack Nicklaus' "Inside Approach" training aid, of course. Although I think it is quite a bit more difficult to swing under a pipe or something --and this forces an on-plane backswing.

Larry

[poe4soul]

Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/D8wV7s79Rik

You're welcome Lary.

[Mward2002]

The little kid in the background of the video pretty much sums this all up.

Larry, your arms are taking over once your shoulder turn has stopped. That leads to more inconsistency and an off-plane swing, which will lead to OTT swings. When you've hit your max shoulder turn for you, stop swinging your arms. For you it may be around 9:00, and that's fine. You'll hit it shorter till you learn how to use your body correctly to generate speed. I can tell you now, you'll not be consistent with the swing you're doing now.

Also, anyone telling you to re-rout the club is probably someone you should stop taking lessons from. All that's going to do is put you under plane which leads to the following: more inconsistency. Too many to name, but pretty much a frustrating way to play golf.

Lastly.. You're not on plane at all in that video. You were steep going back, way under plane coming through. Once you hit 9:00, you lifted the club with your arms, then continued to turn. Steep, and off plane.

[poe4soul]

The little kid in the background of the video pretty much sums this all up.

Larry, your arms are taking over once your shoulder turn has stopped. That leads to more inconsistency and an off-plane swing, which will lead to OTT swings. When you've hit your max shoulder turn for you, stop swinging your arms. For you it may be around 9:00, and that's fine. You'll hit it shorter till you learn how to use your body correctly to generate speed. I can tell you now, you'll not be consistent with the swing you're doing now.

Also, anyone telling you to re-rout the club is probably someone you should stop taking lessons from. All that's going to do is put you under plane which leads to the following: more inconsistency. Too many to name, but pretty much a frustrating way to play golf.

Lastly.. You're not on plane at all in that video. You were steep going back, way under plane coming through. Once you hit 9:00, you lifted the club with your arms, then continued to turn. Steep, and off plane.

Mward, did you pass your PAT? If not Larry will not take any advice from you. He has paid way too much money perfecting this move from REAL PGA instructors.

What you've mistaken here is that Larrie is not actually on a quest to learn but to spend large sums of money with instructors. Your attempts to help mr. Rsf will do nothing but distract him from his ultimate goal.

[Kiwi Player]

This shows me how fundamentally AWFUL my golf swing has been. No wonder I was always decelerating, fighting OTT, etc.

Larry, congratulations. For once you've posted something that makes sense.

But you still haven't explained why you are screwing around with a swing that allowed you to hit 90.3% of fairways, 93.4% of GIR and got you down to a handicap of 4.3. I think that 99% of amatuer weekend warriors (myself included) would be pretty happy with those numbers.

BTW - hitting that many GIR and still being a 4.3 handicap, your putting must REALLY SUCK!

[spanqdoggie]

Looking good Larry!!!

Keep up the good work!

[No_Idea]

This topic has been discussed.

[groundhogday]

Didn't they sell a training aid a couple of years ago on the golf channel two peices of pvc with some foam. Lorrie some good advice lay off the bean dip your love handles are making spank foam at the mouth

GHD

[daveperkins]

Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/D8wV7s79Rik

You're welcome Lary.

I dunno if Larry will thank you for salvaging the link, Poe, but the rest of us don't. Especially after we click on it.



Actually, Larry, that is a good lesson. but only if you're a fairly flat swinger who likes a draw. I'm a big tall guy who nominally hits a straight ball/fade, and I don't want the butt of the club anywhere near my trousers, else I"ll hit a toe loop hook that goes about a third of the way there.

It's a two plane swing you're learning. Mine is more like Stricker's, definitely a single plane from start to thru the ball, high and straight, not outside to inside like Hogan did.

also, unless I"m mistaken, when you reach the top your club is not online with the target... it's pointed left of it, across your plane, which makes it a more complicated business to 'drop it under' because you also have to bring it back onto line.

[Larryrsf]

The little kid in the background of the video pretty much sums this all up.

Larry, your arms are taking over once your shoulder turn has stopped. That leads to more inconsistency and an off-plane swing, which will lead to OTT swings. When you've hit your max shoulder turn for you, stop swinging your arms. For you it may be around 9:00, and that's fine. You'll hit it shorter till you learn how to use your body correctly to generate speed. I can tell you now, you'll not be consistent with the swing you're doing now.

Also, anyone telling you to re-rout the club is probably someone you should stop taking lessons from. All that's going to do is put you under plane which leads to the following: more inconsistency. Too many to name, but pretty much a frustrating way to play golf.

Lastly.. You're not on plane at all in that video. You were steep going back, way under plane coming through. Once you hit 9:00, you lifted the club with your arms, then continued to turn. Steep, and off plane.

My teacher saw that and reminded me that the clubhead should stay outside the pipe until the shaft is vertical. In this video I was bringing it inside too soon. When we take it back "inside" we will downswing OTT. IF we take it back "outside" we downswing in-to-out, on plane--and UNDER that pipe.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

I dunno if Larry will thank you for salvaging the link, Poe, but the rest of us don't. Especially after we click on it.



Actually, Larry, that is a good lesson. but only if you're a fairly flat swinger who likes a draw. I'm a big tall guy who nominally hits a straight ball/fade, and I don't want the butt of the club anywhere near my trousers, else I"ll hit a toe loop hook that goes about a third of the way there.

It's a two plane swing you're learning. Mine is more like Stricker's, definitely a single plane from start to thru the ball, high and straight, not outside to inside like Hogan did.

also, unless I"m mistaken, when you reach the top your club is not online with the target... it's pointed left of it, across your plane, which makes it a more complicated business to 'drop it under' because you also have to bring it back onto line.

Actually THE golf swing does not really re-route the clubhead. It is on plane all the way from backswing to follow-through. IF the golfer does not make the "down and under" move, he swings OTT. Ideally we do NOTHING with hands, wrists, or roll of arms to flatten the shaft or point the butt toward the ball after we turn fully and get the shaft vertical. The entire flattening move is done with the further shoulder turn and hips moving toward the target-- the transition weight shift that 99% of amateurs find impossible.

Any good teacher can demonstrate this "down and under" move to you.

Larry

[Home-slicer]

Larry, I think you owe Spank a debt of gratitude for chasing away your nemesis. I don't think AlanG has shown himself since the Miada pics.
The Vegas line was set at this thread reaching 100 posts by tomorrow at 7:30PM. With AlanG gone it might be pushed back.

[Kiwi Player]

Larry, I think you owe Spank a debt of gratitude for chasing away your nemesis. I don't think AlanG has shown himself since the Miada pics.
The Vegas line was set at this thread reaching 100 posts by tomorrow at 7:30PM. With AlanG gone it might be pushed back.

Don't count out AlanGB too soon. Larry hasn't posted since the Miata picks either. I'm guessing Alan hasn't logged on in the past 14 hours but as soon as he does stand by for a line by line dissection of 'drop it under'.

[Horseballs]

Larry, I think you owe Spank a debt of gratitude for chasing away your nemesis. I don't think AlanG has shown himself since the Miada pics.
The Vegas line was set at this thread reaching 100 posts by tomorrow at 7:30PM. With AlanG gone it might be pushed back.

AGB is in hiding after that thrashing his Canuck hockey team took. By a bunch of Americans who likely just learned how to play this "sport." They stacked the deck (home ice, sport that only Canucks play) to try to get an easy win against their bigger, smarter, bigger-dicked brother and still wound up on the catcher side. My natural reaction of course is to laugh at the feeble attempts of these unathletic flannel-wearers in the Olympics, but now I'm starting to feel pity.

[daveperkins]

Actually THE golf swing does not really re-route the clubhead. It is on plane all the way from backswing to follow-through. IF the golfer does not make the "down and under" move, he swings OTT. Ideally we do NOTHING with hands, wrists, or roll of arms to flatten the shaft or point the butt toward the ball after we turn fully and get the shaft vertical. The entire flattening move is done with the further shoulder turn and hips moving toward the target-- the transition weight shift that 99% of amateurs find impossible.

Any good teacher can demonstrate this "down and under" move to you.

Larry

know the move well. See it on TV when Garcia does it. Rory Mac does it. Hogan did it. these men are a foot shorter than me. Guys my size have a very minimal 'drop in' move, because it suits shorter guys who want to hit draws.I don't swing OTT or else I'd hit banana slices and giant pullhooks. I hit very straight mostly, although an occasional fade drifts in, but that's about open clubface rather than OTT outside-in swing path.

Watch Stricker. his clubhead follows almost exactly the same path down as it did up. at the top, it goes dead still, doesn't 'drop in' anything. Same path and plane. Only the circle of travel is tighter going down than it was going up.

[Kiwi Player]

Just watching the video Larry seems to have lost that amazing spin out move at the finish that used to generate so much power. Larry have you lost distance but gained accuracy with this new move?

[SDB1]

This was most of my recent lesson. He is teaching me to swing on plane. I make a connected backswing on plane by starting it back with hands over my toes (not further out) and by keeping the club shaft under that PVC pipe--but not further inside. I get the shaft about vertical and then continue turning and tilting my upper body back as I shift my weight to my front leg. That puts the club on plane, pointing the butt of the club at the target line through the ball. Then I swing through and the club shaft should remain under the PVC pipe as the clubhead approaches the ball- "drop it under." was what he instructed me to do when I reached the top position.

He gave this lesson by holding a golf club shaft horizontal outside my club shaft just under my hands. This PVC pipe does the same thing. And having the pipe still there for the downswing gives me a visual target to avoid as I downswing.

This is NOT easy, BTW. But it is the way good players swing; I hope I can learn it. I set this up and took a couple of swings and hit the pipe as my club swung "out and over" instead of "down and under." I have work to do--but the first step is learning that I was doing it wrong --and how to do it right.

YouTube - Drop it under.wmv

The next generation of this training aid will have two PVC pipes about 2 feet long replacing the chair.

This is good stuff--and feels VERY different-- which shows me how fundamentally AWFUL my golf swing has been. No wonder I was always decelerating, fighting OTT, etc.

My pro said many touring pros actually touch their pants with the butt of the club as the downswing starts-- and that Hogan wore a spot in his pants in front of his right hip.

Another way to practice this is to swing under a rope about 2 feet high. You can't hit balls, of course, because whatever you tie the front end of the rope to is in your ball flight path.

This is very related to Jack Nicklaus' "Inside Approach" training aid, of course. Although I think it is quite a bit more difficult to swing under a pipe or something --and this forces an on-plane backswing.

Larry

Larry, I know you discount most of what anybody tells you on here but I can sense your enthusiasm for the game and your frustration as of late with your lack of inprovement. Basically, Larry, you're getting old. What your video clearly demonstrates is a total lack of flexibility in your backswing. You are completely disconnected due to your lack of proper shoulder turn. Do you see how your arms move out of sync with your chest? It will be very hard not to swing OTT if you can't turn your shoulders back further. They barely move at all. Your arms on the other hand keep going. It's very hard to consistently strike the ball when everything is out of sequence like that.

I would suggest you find an instructor that is going to take a good look at your physical limitations and suggests an instructional path that can fit inside those limitations. Otherwise you're just wasting your time and money on drills and instructors that are trying to take advantage of you.

[lorenzoinoc]

Until my stomach is sound again, I'm going to avoid watching the video, although no doubt there is much I can learn from it.

Alan's disappearance is obvious and has everything to do with Spank, either through humiiation or the tri-fecta.

[Home-slicer]

Don't count out AlanGB too soon. Larry hasn't posted since the Miata picks either. I'm guessing Alan hasn't logged on in the past 14 hours but as soon as he does stand by for a line by line dissection of 'drop it under'.

I'm not so sure Kiwi, usually AlanG's "spider sense" tingles as soon as Larry clicks submit. Alan would normally had at least 4 posts by now.

[upanddownfromaballwasher]

I just watched the video and thought i would offer a LITTLE bit of advice. (I appreciate you dont really need it Larry but hey).

For crying out loud man do you seriously expect anyone to believe you really play golf to any sort of standard, with a limp wristed swing like that!

Now grow up, sell your golf clubs as you will never be able to swing one with any real menace, and take up something more suitable, pottery or french flower pressing maybe.

you know it makes sense

[famousdavis]

Is the title thread similar to "drop it while it's hard"?

[Kiwi Player]

I'm not so sure Kiwi, usually AlanG's "spider sense" tingles as soon as Larry clicks submit. Alan would normally had at least 4 posts by now.

You are correct. After 16 hours I must admit my faith in AGB is wavering and doubt is setting in. Maybe Larry has briefly thrown AGB off the scent by posting on another site these past couple of weeks. Maybe AGB is lying in wait over at Golfrewound.

[Horseballs]

Good lord, that's a terrible video.
I have a new Larryrsf theory. He is actually spank. Spank is secretly videotaping some demented old codger down at the range and posting videos for our enjoyment. Thank you for providing us with so much entertainment.

[lorenzoinoc]

You are correct. After 16 hours I must admit my faith in AGB is wavering and doubt is setting in. Maybe Larry has briefly thrown AGB off the scent by posting on another site these past couple of weeks. Maybe AGB is lying in wait over at Golfrewound.

If Larry's been working on a plan to dispose of Alan, this would have been the perfect time. Now nobody is suspicious over Alan's absence.

He could have figured Poe would post his video and he could then tell if Alan was really dead and not just in a hospital near a computer somewhere.

[SoonerBS]

Good lord, that's a terrible video.
I have a new Larryrsf theory. He is actually spank. Spank is secretly videotaping some demented old codger down at the range and posting videos for our enjoyment. Thank you for providing us with so much entertainment.

Seriously, I have had my suspicions in that area as well for some time. Spank is a genius and therefore this lies within his realm of capabilities.

[Home-slicer]

Good lord, that's a terrible video.
I have a new Larryrsf theory. He is actually spank. Spank is secretly videotaping some demented old codger down at the range and posting videos for our enjoyment. Thank you for providing us with so much entertainment.

Agreed, I've thought this for a while now.

[Home-slicer]

Seriously, I have had my suspicions in that area as well for some time. Spank is a genius and therefore this lies within his realm of capabilities.

Agreed, i've thought that for a while now. (your post came up as I was typing mine, so I will agree with you as well)

[The Purist]

Good lord, that's a terrible video.
I have a new Larryrsf theory. He is actually spank. Spank is secretly videotaping some demented old codger down at the range and posting videos for our enjoyment. Thank you for providing us with so much entertainment.

The Wizard of GROZ strikes again....

GR is a strange and wonderful place. I used to think it would be nice to know whos who and whats what, but now I realize somethings are better left unknown.

[Horseballs]

Well, I guess that's official since 2 people have agreed with me (not 3, since The Purist and Home-slicer are the same person).
Larryrsf is actually spank and the old man in the videos is some poor crazy homeless guy spank uses in his videos. Glad the two of us could solve this riddle.

[daveperkins]

The Wizard of GROZ strikes again....

GR is a strange and wonderful place. I used to think it would be nice to know whos who and whats what, but now I realize somethings are better left unknown.

Side benefit of Larry's swing vid.

looking at my own feels like watching the Masters.

[Home-slicer]

Well, I guess that's official since 2 people have agreed with me (not 3, since The Purist and Home-slicer are the same person).
Larryrsf is actually spank and the old man in the videos is some poor crazy homeless guy spank uses in his videos. Glad the two of us could solve this riddle.

You've got it all wrong. I'm DavePerk. Trust me, finding a guy to fit my character's description for those vids was not easy. See! I used smiles!!

[lorenzoinoc]

Seriously, I have had my suspicions in that area as well for some time. Spank is a genius and therefore this lies within his realm of capabilities.

I've laid markers in threads from long ago for Kiwi to uncover when everything comes out that shows my beliefs in this area. The posting history all by itself is adequate proof.

[Horseballs]

I've laid markers in threads from long ago for Kiwi to uncover when everything comes out that shows my beliefs in this area. The posting history all by itself is adequate proof.

Yes, I've heard Dan Brown is writing his next book about it. The Lorenzo Code.

[poe4soul]

Agree with you on this one. I have an angelic smooth swing move compared to Larry's Tourrette swing.

[lorenzoinoc]

Yes, I've heard Dan Brown is writing his next book about it. The Lorenzo Code.

My markers will make the DaVinci stuff seem unsophisticated.

[Horseballs]

My markers will make that stuff seem unsophisticated.

Not too hard to decipher. You'll have to do better than that.

[lorenzoinoc]

Not too hard to decipher. You'll have to do better than that.

I've never denied your genius. From now on I'll bury my markers more deeply.

[Horseballs]

I've never denied your genius. From now on I'll bury my markers more deeply.

It's like you aren't even trying. Never knew about you and Mark though.

[lorenzoinoc]

It's like you aren't even trying. Never knew about you and Mark though.

Yeah, that one was intentional low hanging fruit. But you have to translate my marker into my schlong. In this instance, it was you who wasn't trying.

[Horseballs]

Yeah, that one was in tentional low hanging fruit. But you have to translate my marker into my schlong. In this instance, it was you who wasn't trying.

I'm getting the hang of your little language. Not very good odds, Zo.

[lorenzoinoc]

I'm getting the hang of your little language. Not very good odds, Zo.

It's pretty good when you consider the sheer volume of attempts and that my ultimate goal is a goup of Tiger tang as I've already indicated.

BTW, stop copying my marker approach.

[Horseballs]

It's pretty good when you consider the sheer volume of attempts and that my ultimate goal is a goup of Tiger tang as I've already indicated.

BTW, stop copying my marker approach.

Oh, I was thinking the "one in ten" referred to something else.

[famousdavis]

Yes, I've heard Dan Brown is writing his next book about it. The Lorenzo Code.

Well, it couldn't be any more far fetched than Dan Brown's previous books. Angels and Demons was the most ridiculous book I've ever read and The DaVinci Code was almost as silly. The movies were even worse. Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon? Adam Sandler would have been a better fit than Hanks. Speaking of far fetched, I saw the end of Tin Cup the other day on TV. With that swing, Kevin Costner could stand there all day with a 3 wood and never get it over that lake. Denunzio had a better swing than Costner and so did Mrs. Havacamp.

[Horseballs]

Well, it couldn't be any more far fetched than Dan Brown's previous books. Angels and Demons was the most ridiculous book I've ever read and The DaVinci Code was almost as silly. The movies were even worse. Tom Hanks as Robert Langdon? Adam Sandler would have been a better fit than Hanks. Speaking of far fetched, I saw the end of Tin Cup the other day on TV. With that swing, Kevin Costner could stand there all day with a 3 wood and never get it over that lake. Denunzio had a better swing than Costner and so did Mrs. Havacamp.

The worst is Dan Brown's new book, The Lost Symbol. I don't know why I bothered.
The best part of Angels and Demons is when Langdon used his sports jacket as a parachute.

[lorenzoinoc]

The worst is Dan Brown's new book, The Lost Symbol. I don't know why I bothered.
The best part of Angels and Demons is when Langdon used his sports jacket as a parachute.

Sounds like italian leather with a silk lining.

The strangest thing about the movie The DaVinci Code was Tom Hank's hair.

[famousdavis]

The worst is Dan Brown's new book, The Lost Symbol. I don't know why I bothered.
The best part of Angels and Demons is when Langdon used his sports jacket as a parachute.

Right, or when the Carmelengo puts a huge fiery brand on his chest and then has the ability to sprint downstairs toward the antimatter and later fly a helicopter. He would be rolling on the floor in agony. Other than those two things the plot had no errors. Not.

Several authors are really overrated. Michael Crighton is one of them and so is John Gresham. Gresham's first two books were good but now they're just a formula. I like Michael Connelly.

[Horseballs]

Right, or when the Carmelengo puts a huge fiery brand on his chest and then has the ability to sprint downstairs toward the antimatter and later fly a helicopter. He would be rolling on the floor in agony. Other than those two things the plot had no errors. Not.

Several authors are really overrated. Michael Crighton is one of them and so is John Gresham. Gresham's first two books were good but now they're just a formula. I like Michael Connelly.

I haven't found any really good new fiction authors in awhile. I'd recommend reading everything by Preston/Child. They collaborate on a pretty good series. You've got to go in order starting with Relic.

[famousdavis]

Thanks for the tip. Elizabeth George is pretty good but you have to concentrate more because of the way she writes. Not easy like James Patterson.

[Mward2002]

"When we take it back "inside" we will downswing OTT. IF we take it back "outside" we downswing in-to-out, on plane--and UNDER that pipe."

It depends on the level of the players ability. Daly for instance, takes it way inside and over the line, yet still delivers the club from the inside. On the flip side, there are many a 30 handicap that can take it way outside the tarket line yet still come over the top and way across the ball. If you start the downswing with your upper body moving separate from the lower body, you can almost guarantee an over the top move.

I've seen guys break par with an over the top pull. It's more about managing your game and knowing how to score than how pretty your swing can look.

[daveperkins]

You've got it all wrong. I'm DavePerk. Trust me, finding a guy to fit my character's description for those vids was not easy. See! I used smiles!!

dammit... my clone has escaped the lab again...

[Kiwi Player]

The legend continues. Larryrsf/Spank brings up 50 replies in 21 hours. Another 100 post thread is just around the corner.

Even though this one has kind gone off topic it is still impressive.

[Horseballs]

Thanks for the tip. Elizabeth George is pretty good but you have to concentrate more because of the way she writes. Not easy like James Patterson.

I can't do Patterson anymore. Not after the terrible "When the Wind Blows" where he's writing first person as a chick and describes getting nailed by a dude. I just picture that dirty old man typing away with a hard on.

[Larryrsf]

know the move well. See it on TV when Garcia does it. Rory Mac does it. Hogan did it. these men are a foot shorter than me. Guys my size have a very minimal 'drop in' move, because it suits shorter guys who want to hit draws.I don't swing OTT or else I'd hit banana slices and giant pullhooks. I hit very straight mostly, although an occasional fade drifts in, but that's about open clubface rather than OTT outside-in swing path.

Watch Stricker. his clubhead follows almost exactly the same path down as it did up. at the top, it goes dead still, doesn't 'drop in' anything. Same path and plane. Only the circle of travel is tighter going down than it was going up.

don't rationalize. All good golfers make that move. They all start their downswing with hips and then let their shoulders and arms swing. But 99% of amateurs start with shoulders. That's the difference. The golf swing is "turn, post, swing." If you can't do it, it doesn't matter what kind of sticks you swing. You will still hit it sideways too often to score.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

"When we take it back "inside" we will downswing OTT. IF we take it back "outside" we downswing in-to-out, on plane--and UNDER that pipe."

It depends on the level of the players ability. Daly for instance, takes it way inside and over the line, yet still delivers the club from the inside. On the flip side, there are many a 30 handicap that can take it way outside the tarket line yet still come over the top and way across the ball. If you start the downswing with your upper body moving separate from the lower body, you can almost guarantee an over the top move.

I've seen guys break par with an over the top pull. It's more about managing your game and knowing how to score than how pretty your swing can look.

wow! So what! What can struggling amateurs learn from that? If we are serious, the shortest path from here to good golf is the fundamentals. Just swing like Faldo. Do the drills, learn the moves, or admit you'll never break 90 consistently.

Larry

[spanqdoggie]

wow! So what! What can struggling amateurs learn from that? If we are serious, the shortest path from here to good golf is the fundamentals. Just swing like Faldo. Do the drills, learn the moves, or admit you'll never break 90 consistently.

Larry

Kick his ass Larry!

[Larryrsf]

It all comes down to "can you do it?" If you are out there swinging shoulders over hips (OTT) every good golfer knows it by watching you from across the course. Everyone knows that swing is an accident waiting to happen.

So either learn to "drop it under" or admit that you will miss so many fairways and greens that you are lucky each time you break 90. What is silly is guys who can't make that move swinging blades, etc. Forget that. Your problem is fundamentals.

larry

[pingman360]

i really dont want to even respond to any of this...

but once again just because you take it back inside does not equal an OTT move... look up double plane shift in TGM...or single shift, or triple shift, or loop shift... bottom line is that just because the plane is steeper on the downswing does not equal OTT... this is a major flaw in your thinking that you really need to examine....

[spanqdoggie]

It all comes down to "can you do it?" If you are out there swinging shoulders over hips (OTT) every good golfer knows it by watching you from across the course. Everyone knows that swing is an accident waiting to happen.

So either learn to "drop it under" or admit that you will miss so many fairways and greens that you are lucky each time you break 90. What is silly is guys who can't make that move swinging blades, etc. Forget that. Your problem is fundamentals.

larry

Exactly.

[daveperkins]

It all comes down to "can you do it?" If you are out there swinging shoulders over hips (OTT) every good golfer knows it by watching you from across the course. Everyone knows that swing is an accident waiting to happen.

So either learn to "drop it under" or admit that you will miss so many fairways and greens that you are lucky each time you break 90. What is silly is guys who can't make that move swinging blades, etc. Forget that. Your problem is fundamentals.

larry

Gutsy.

This is Edgey-gutsy.

Without the knowledge. Or the amusement.

But gutsy.

Three swings to look at next time you see golf on TV--

RIch Beem.

Tim Clark.

J. B. Homey

You will note, in slow mo, that each one takes it back inside, does NOT drop it into or under anything, and then comes down to the ball from farther outside than they took it back.

Clark is the only one who seems not to go through periods of horrible inaccuracy, but since all three have their tour cards, I guess that's relative.

I still do a doubletake every time I see any of these guys do that. the OPPOSITE of 'drop it under'... they raise it OVER... and still, somehow, manage to win.

And I"m sure others do it, whom I have yet to notice. "Drop it under" works for some, but it doesn't seem to help Sergio, and Rory has underperformed too. Hogan didn't do too badly with it. :-)

Different strokes, as they say, for different pukes.

[Horseballs]

I sincerely hope I don't start just barely breaking 90 now that I've learned I've got to do a crazy loopy move to start my downswing. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Sometimes ignorance manifests itself as an angry octogenarian codger. Othertimes, ignorance is just an alias.

[daveperkins]

don't rationalize. All good golfers make that move. They all start their downswing with hips and then let their shoulders and arms swing. But 99% of amateurs start with shoulders. That's the difference. The golf swing is "turn, post, swing." If you can't do it, it doesn't matter what kind of sticks you swing. You will still hit it sideways too often to score.

Larry

mm hmm. See below, tell it to Beem, Holmes, Clark (Tim).

You've diverged from 'drop it under' to the timing of the movement between shoulders and hips. Tiger's hips are halfway through the follow through before his club even moves, and the benefit of this core strength and flexibility is pure clubhead speed. But Jim Furyk also gets his hips around out of the way very quickly but does not get the speed out of it. And Furyk is a BIG drop it under guy, probably because he takes it back straight up vertical.

I think Holmes handles 'hips first' pretty well (clubhead speed tells all), but still doesn't 'drop it under'.

[daveperkins]

I sincerely hope I don't start just barely breaking 90 now that I've learned I've got to do a crazy loopy move to start my downswing. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Sometimes ignorance manifests itself as an angry octogenarian codger. Othertimes, ignorance is just an alias.

YOur first mistake, as always, was paying attention.

[No_Idea]

Slow down your swing

[Kiwi Player]

Well, I guess that's official since 2 people have agreed with me (not 3, since The Purist and Home-slicer are the same person).
Larryrsf is actually spank and the old man in the videos is some poor crazy homeless guy spank uses in his videos. Glad the two of us could solve this riddle.

Your theory is sound and plausible but where does this leave AlanG Baker? I thought he was the homeless one?

[Kiwi Player]

Well, I guess that's official since 2 people have agreed with me (not 3, since The Purist and Home-slicer are the same person).
Larryrsf is actually spank and the old man in the videos is some poor crazy homeless guy spank uses in his videos. Glad the two of us could solve this riddle.

I've figured out what happened to AlanGBaker. He died and has been reincarnated and now goes by the name Hogansghost, complete with sentence by sentence dissection of Larry's posts.

http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/t...570576&mpage=1

[Mizuno>Ping]

Larry your daughter has a better swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCX8bNhro-0

Get her to teach you. You're wasting your money on a PGA professional.

[noshuz]

I had a little Ah ha moment yesterday and it seemed to work with everything I used (wedges - 17*hybrid) Rather than trying to take my backswing all the way back 10-11 o'clock, I only took It back to 9 o'clock and it resulted in 5-10 yards longer and straighter shots. 99% of amateurs have this problem. ......I wonder if it will work next time......

[SoonerBS]

I had a little Ah ha moment yesterday and it seemed to work with everything I used (wedges - 17*hybrid) Rather than trying to take my backswing all the way back 10-11 o'clock, I only took It back to 9 o'clock and it resulted in 5-10 yards longer and straighter shots. 99% of amateurs have this problem. ......I wonder if it will work next time......

"Ah-ha" moments are great. I have often discovered the same thing you did to be true. I think, for me anyway, the less further back I have to go, the less can go wrong, therefore the club has a better chance at coming back square into the ball. Also, with better control of the club comes a more likely chance of hitting the ball with the sweet spot of the club which will always help us to hit the ball a little straighter and further.

[Home-slicer]

I had a little Ah ha moment yesterday and it seemed to work with everything I used (wedges - 17*hybrid) Rather than trying to take my backswing all the way back 10-11 o'clock, I only took It back to 9 o'clock and it resulted in 5-10 yards longer and straighter shots. 99% of amateurs have this problem. ......I wonder if it will work next time......

Funny you mention that. I had a similar experience last week. I was beating some balls in the garage, and started restricting my shoulder turn (just a bit) and started making really flush contact. I checked in the mirror, and what I found was that my "restricted" backswing was still around 90* of shoulder turn and that my "full" swing was not much more, but my upper body was lifting up in an effort to turn more.
It was one of those rare swing thoughts that actually translated to the course. I only missed .06 of the fairways on Saturday.

[noshuz]

Funny you mention that. I had a similar experience last week. I was beating some balls in the garage, and started restricting my shoulder turn (just a bit) and started making really flush contact. I checked in the mirror, and what I found was that my "restricted" backswing was still around 90* of shoulder turn and that my "full" swing was not much more, but my upper body was lifting up in an effort to turn more.
It was one of those rare swing thoughts that actually translated to the course. I only missed .06 of the fairways on Saturday.

Ya I think that I typically take too much shoulder turn. It comes with being flexible. I turn until I feel tension and it might be too far and I get out of position at the top. Either that or I'm not out of position at the top but just over wound and can't recover, or unwind quickly enough back down. Does that make sense?

[Home-slicer]

Ya I think that I typically take too much shoulder turn. It comes with being flexible. I turn until I feel tension and it might be too far and I get out of position at the top. Either that or I'm not out of position at the top but just over wound and can't recover, or unwind quickly enough back down. Does that make sense?

Absolutely, it does. Guys like Pinger say you need 175* of shoulder turn, but he's a Stretch Armstrong'ed skeletoned youngster. I think trying to turn more than your body can comfortably can be a potential death move for the swing. The mirror really helped me realize that I always take it back farther than I think I do, so there's no need to force it.

[noshuz]

Well then, That would explain why I've typically had better contact at the beginning of my rounds. I'm a little tighter and don't come back as far. As the round progresses and I loosen up, I start coming back farther. That will be my main objective going into this match with FD.

[pingman360]

Absolutely, it does. Guys like Pinger say you need 175* of shoulder turn, but he's a Stretch Armstrong'ed skeletoned youngster. I think trying to turn more than your body can comfortably can be a potential death move for the swing. The mirror really helped me realize that I always take it back farther than I think I do, so there's no need to force it.

nah 90* is good... but some people simply have physical limitations that will not allow that... i say turn as much as you can without causing manipulations of the stroke, some people can turn more than they realize but just have been doing it differently for so long it takes a little bit of a stretching feel... others turn much too far which can result in a host of errors on the downswing...

there's not one rule for everyone but i know MORAD states for every degree over 90* the shoulders are rotated the baeline is shifted 1* right, and for every degree under 90* the shoulder don't rotate the baseline is shifted 1* left... so to make some plane shifts easier it might be better to go like 95* (CF) while an inline pattern might be good to go right to 90*... honestly i'm still researching this topic out in regards to shifting the baseline do to shoulder rotation in conjunction with plane shifts, but it's an interesting topic to think about....

[poe4soul]

I had a little Ah ha moment yesterday and it seemed to work with everything I used (wedges - 17*hybrid) Rather than trying to take my backswing all the way back 10-11 o'clock, I only took It back to 9 o'clock and it resulted in 5-10 yards longer and straighter shots. 99% of amateurs have this problem. ......I wonder if it will work next time......

Was this an observation on a video or a friend or just a feeling? I find that most golfers (maybe 99* but not sure we'll have to wait for LarieSRF to enlighten us) and including myself take the club back farther than they realize. What you "feel" is a 9 o'clock might actually be longer. I think this might be because 9 o'clock is where you mentally are taking the arms back to but with some momentum and lag or delay between the lower and upper body turning the arms continue back to 10-11 o'clock. It's not like you have an eye on the side of your head telling you were 9 o'clock is.

[noshuz]

nah 90* is good... but some people simply have physical limitations that will not allow that... i say turn as much as you can without causing manipulations of the stroke, some people can turn more than they realize but just have been doing it differently for so long it takes a little bit of a stretching feel... others turn much too far which can result in a host of errors on the downswing...

there's not one rule for everyone but i know MORAD states for every degree over 90* the shoulders are rotated the baeline is shifted 1* right, and for every degree under 90* the shoulder don't rotate the baseline is shifted 1* left... so to make some plane shifts easier it might be better to go like 95* (CF) while an inline pattern might be good to go right to 90*... honestly i'm still researching this topic out in regards to shifting the baseline do to shoulder rotation in conjunction with plane shifts, but it's an interesting topic to think about....

That would be me. Even though I'm 48 I'm very flexible. Until now I've never thought that it would hinder my golf swing. Hmmm, interesting....

[noshuz]

Was this an observation on a video or a friend or just a feeling? I find that most golfers (maybe 99* but not sure we'll have to wait for LarieSRF to enlighten us) and including myself take the club back farther than they realize. What you "feel" is a 9 o'clock might actually be longer. I think this might be because 9 o'clock is where you mentally are taking the arms back to but with some momentum and lag or delay between the lower and upper body turning the arms continue back to 10-11 o'clock. It's not like you have an eye on the side of your head telling you were 9 o'clock is.

It was just a feeling. It's my 9 o'clock feel and you're probably right it might be almost 10 o'clock. Either way, it works. I'll have FD check my swing on the 5th. I'm sure he'll be interested anyway when I start kicking his arse all over the course......

[famousdavis]

It was just a feeling. It's my 9 o'clock feel and you're probably right it might be almost 10 o'clock. Either way, it works. I'll have FD check my swing on the 5th. I'm sure he'll be interested anyway when I start kicking his arse all over the course......

Why, I could beat you with one arm!!

[Donald Jackson]

It was just a feeling. It's my 9 o'clock feel and you're probably right it might be almost 10 o'clock. Either way, it works. I'll have FD check my swing on the 5th. I'm sure he'll be interested anyway when I start kicking his arse all over the course......

just another thought on what maybe happening here...i read and have experienced when starting the swing down a hair earlier widens the arc coming down. i tell my slicer friends sometimes to start the swing down earlier and it seems to help them right away. Same goes for a fade, start down later.

[Mward2002]

"wow! So what! What can struggling amateurs learn from that? If we are serious, the shortest path from here to good golf is the fundamentals. Just swing like Faldo. Do the drills, learn the moves, or admit you'll never break 90 consistently."

What can amateurs learn from that? It's simple.. Consistency. It really doesn't matter how you swing, it's what you shoot. You can play an OTT pull slice with every club in your bag, but if you make par or better, who cares? Can you repeat it every time? That's all that matters. If you can't do it consistently, change it so you can.

Your dropping it under method works great if you have a steep backswing. What if your backswing was on plane or flat going back? If I flatten it more, I'm coming into the ball under plane and I have to make hand compensations in order to square the ball. Every shot I get to ask myself.. Gee, which'll put me closer to the hole? The dead right block? Or the 40 yard hook? Or am I going to time it right and hit it dead straight while setting up for one of the two other scenarios? That's even if I can hit the ball, cause when you get that under plane and you're making hand compensations, you also have a tendency to get too handsy and hit the ball heavy all day.

When was the last time you broke 90 Larry? From July to current, there have been two instances when I didn't break 90. Both days I had the above problem, and both days I played like crap because of it.

[poe4soul]

It was just a feeling. It's my 9 o'clock feel and you're probably right it might be almost 10 o'clock. Either way, it works. I'll have FD check my swing on the 5th. I'm sure he'll be interested anyway when I start kicking his arse all over the course......

I too am guilty taking the club too far back. When I shorten my swing I seem to stay more connected and have a much better transition.

[famousdavis]

I had a little Ah ha moment yesterday and it seemed to work with everything I used (wedges - 17*hybrid) Rather than trying to take my backswing all the way back 10-11 o'clock, I only took It back to 9 o'clock and it resulted in 5-10 yards longer and straighter shots. 99% of amateurs have this problem. ......I wonder if it will work next time......

Speaking of A-ha, they had a great song and video in 1985 called 'Take on Me". One hit wonder.

[SoonerBS]

Speaking of A-ha, they had a great song and video in 1985 called 'Take on Me". One hit wonder.

They might have been a one-hit-wonder, but to this date no one without boobs has been able to approach that note range . . . . .

The 80s were awesome . . . .

[famousdavis]

I've figured out what happened to AlanGBaker. He died and has been reincarnated and now goes by the name Hogansghost, complete with sentence by sentence dissection of Larry's posts.

http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/t...570576&mpage=1

Excellent investigative work. I clicked on the URL and that sure looks like one of Alan's responses. Unless, of course, it's someone else trying to look like Alan and stealing his thunder. So may variables it can make your mind go numb. The theological implications alone are staggering.

[Larryrsf]

I just watched the video and thought i would offer a LITTLE bit of advice. (I appreciate you dont really need it Larry but hey).

For crying out loud man do you seriously expect anyone to believe you really play golf to any sort of standard, with a limp wristed swing like that!

Now grow up, sell your golf clubs as you will never be able to swing one with any real menace, and take up something more suitable, pottery or french flower pressing maybe.

you know it makes sense

THE reason most high handicappers never improve is because they don't have the patience and persistence to ingrain the correct movements. The golf swing is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious movements. Accomplished golfers got there by training their sub-conscious with slow motion or even stopped action poses. Standing out there making the same stupid wrong moves over and over again accomplishes nothing.

Ask any pro how he did it. Ask any accomplished musical instrument player how he did it. Wake up.

AND, there are guys my age and 10+ years older who can hit drives 50 yards past your best-- because they swing correctly and hit the ball on the sweet spot of their driver. I would love to watch you lose ALL your money betting against old guys.

Larry

[Mward2002]

THE reason most high handicappers never improve is because they don't have the patience and persistence to ingrain the correct movements. The golf swing is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious movements. Accomplished golfers got there by training their sub-conscious with slow motion or even stopped action poses. Standing out there making the same stupid wrong moves over and over again accomplishes nothing.

Ask any pro how he did it. Ask any accomplished musical instrument player how he did it. Wake up.

Larry

Pot calling the kettle black much? You're spouting off a new thought every few weeks. How can you possibly be ingraining the BS from your last post when you're making up new BS?

Do you even have a swing that doesn't involve a drill in it? Hit a ball from actual turf and post it up here.

[pingman360]

THE reason most high handicappers never improve is because they don't have the patience and persistence to ingrain the correct movements. The golf swing is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious movements. Accomplished golfers got there by training their sub-conscious with slow motion or even stopped action poses. Standing out there making the same stupid wrong moves over and over again accomplishes nothing.

Ask any pro how he did it. Ask any accomplished musical instrument player how he did it. Wake up.

AND, there are guys my age and 10+ years older who can hit drives 50 yards past your best-- because they swing correctly and hit the ball on the sweet spot of their driver. I would love to watch you lose ALL your money betting against old guys.

Larry

the reason most high handicappers don't get better is because they are taught incorrect moves to make in order to hit the ball... things like brace the left knee, create width, release the club, and a host of others do nothing the vast majority of players (or should i have said 97.8% of am's??) in fact most of those things hinder the player...

the PGA handbook is completely wrong in very many areas, and right now and i hope that the errors will be corrected one day... but for now there is the reason that handicaps have not gone down in past 30 years or so....

[mentaloaf]

They might have been a one-hit-wonder, but to this date no one without boobs has been able to approach that note range . . . . .

The 80s were awesome . . . .

Remember the early MTV theme lick with the rocket taking off and the moon guy with the flag? I just met the guy that played drums on that tune....he got paid $250 bucks. He asked for royalties and they told him no, he said what if I insist and Warner Bros told him they'd get someone else if he insisted on royalties. Can you imagine if he made like 10 cents EVERY time that jingle was played? He said it still keeps him up at night and this was like 30 years ago...

[poe4soul]

the reason most high handicappers don't get better is because they are taught incorrect moves to make in order to hit the ball... things like brace the left knee, create width, release the club, and a host of others do nothing the vast majority of players (or should i have said 97.8% of am's??) in fact most of those things hinder the player...

the PGA handbook is completely wrong in very many areas, and right now and i hope that the errors will be corrected one day... but for now there is the reason that handicaps have not gone down in past 30 years or so....

there's that and the fact that 99.99% + Larry have no athletic talent?

[spanqdoggie]

THE reason most high handicappers never improve is because they don't have the patience and persistence to ingrain the correct movements. The golf swing is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious movements. Accomplished golfers got there by training their sub-conscious with slow motion or even stopped action poses. Standing out there making the same stupid wrong moves over and over again accomplishes nothing.

Ask any pro how he did it. Ask any accomplished musical instrument player how he did it. Wake up.

AND, there are guys my age and 10+ years older who can hit drives 50 yards past your best-- because they swing correctly and hit the ball on the sweet spot of their driver. I would love to watch you lose ALL your money betting against old guys.

Larry

Kick all their asses Larry!!!

[Mward2002]

the reason most high handicappers don't get better is because they are taught incorrect moves to make in order to hit the ball... things like brace the left knee, create width, release the club, and a host of others do nothing the vast majority of players (or should i have said 97.8% of am's??) in fact most of those things hinder the player...

the PGA handbook is completely wrong in very many areas, and right now and i hope that the errors will be corrected one day... but for now there is the reason that handicaps have not gone down in past 30 years or so....

Larry it's not driving past me when they're playing from the sub 6000 tee box and I'm in the 6500-7000 tee box.

Judging by your lack of power in your swing, I'm pretty sure my 5 wood can outdrive you. Maybe I can step on a 5iron and we can make it close.

[lorenzoinoc]

Larry it's not driving past me when they're playing from the sub 6000 tee box and I'm in the 6500-7000 tee box.

Judging by your lack of power in your swing, I'm pretty sure my 5 wood can outdrive you. Maybe I can step on a 5iron and we can make it close.

I think the ultimate GR match would be Lerry against Nifty.

[Mward2002]

I think the ultimate GR match would be Lerry against Nifty.

Nah, Liarry vs Mrs.3 Wiggle. That woman could step on a ball if she needed to I would imagine.

[Horseballs]

Nah, Liarry vs Mrs.3 Wiggle. That woman could step on a ball if she needed to I would imagine.

The answer is obviously Larrrry v. Alangbaker.
I doubt they would make it past the first tee box, between Larry's swing advice and Alan's googling to refute it.

[Kiwi Player]

I think the ultimate GR match would be Lerry against Nifty.

This match would have ended with Nifty (the ex boxer) punching out Lerry halfway up the first fairway (which of course Laery would have hit - Nifty not so sure) I imagine.

[lorenzoinoc]

This match would have ended with Nifty (the ex boxer) punching out Lerry halfway up the first fairway (which of course Laery would have hit - Nifty not so sure) I imagine.

Lurry might not survive, but that's competition. Observing the conditions the Olympic women skiers are being made to GS in, Olympic skiing officials obviously look at it that way.

[alangbaker]

The answer is obviously Larrrry v. Alangbaker.
I doubt they would make it past the first tee box, between Larry's swing advice and Alan's googling to refute it.

Pffft...

Larry long ago reneged on the match he challenged me to play.

[alangbaker]

Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf.../0/D8wV7s79Rik

You're welcome Lary.

Already gone.

I guess that wasn't as definitive as Larry had hoped...

[alangbaker]

Larry, I think you owe Spank a debt of gratitude for chasing away your nemesis. I don't think AlanG has shown himself since the Miada pics.
The Vegas line was set at this thread reaching 100 posts by tomorrow at 7:30PM. With AlanG gone it might be pushed back.

Sorry, but all it was was a trip to Whistler to watch the Olympic Games.

[alangbaker]

AGB is in hiding after that thrashing his Canuck hockey team took. By a bunch of Americans who likely just learned how to play this "sport." They stacked the deck (home ice, sport that only Canucks play) to try to get an easy win against their bigger, smarter, bigger-dicked brother and still wound up on the catcher side. My natural reaction of course is to laugh at the feeble attempts of these unathletic flannel-wearers in the Olympics, but now I'm starting to feel pity.

Let's wait 'til the medals are handed out, shall we HB?

[alangbaker]

THE reason most high handicappers never improve is because they don't have the patience and persistence to ingrain the correct movements. The golf swing is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious movements. Accomplished golfers got there by training their sub-conscious with slow motion or even stopped action poses. Standing out there making the same stupid wrong moves over and over again accomplishes nothing.

Ask any pro how he did it. Ask any accomplished musical instrument player how he did it. Wake up.

My brother is an accomplished musician on the guitar, the bass, the drums, the piano...

...but never had a single lesson, nor did a single drill.

But he did play a lot.

AND, there are guys my age and 10+ years older who can hit drives 50 yards past your best-- because they swing correctly and hit the ball on the sweet spot of their driver. I would love to watch you lose ALL your money betting against old guys.

And we'd all love to see you play an actual round of golf for the laughs it would give us...