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  1. #1

    Reccomendations for a Beginner

    Aloha, I am new to golf and could use some help.

    I am 21, and played my first 18 holes about a month ago. Since then, I have played maybe 80 holes of golf, and hit maybe 1000 balls at the driving range.

    I have a large build; I'm about 6'0 260 and have always been naturally strong - I benchpress around 330.

    For this reason, golf has seemed to fit me pretty well. Despite this being my first experience with golf, I drive the ball between 240-270 pretty regularly despite having no real backswing or follow through, while using a club that is clearly not meant for me. I have a set of second-hand clubs which are probably at least 10-15 years old.

    The issue I am having is that I have a pretty god awful slice on my drive. While I am generally inconsistent with my iron shots, my drive is consistently to the right. After showing my club to a local course pro, he said I'm slicing it because my hips lead my club face. Apparently my driver has too much flex, especially for a guy my size. He says there's nothing fundamentally wrong with my swing that is causing the slice, just that the club face isn't keeping up with my swing.

    So, I'm now in the market for some clubs. I'm hoping to pick up a driver, a 3W, and maybe a 6-iron. I recently used a steel shaft 7-iron and the difference was amazing. My entire set of old clubs are graphite shafts and just picking up the steel shaft made it feel just right. I immediately hit three shots perfectly about 80-100 feet high, 150 yards, and dead straight with almost no effort.

    Are there any recommendations you can make when it comes to clubs. I'm going to try for a driver that is a bit stiffer, and probably get some steel shaft irons since it seems to work for me.

    Also, can you tell me what to expect when it comes to the development of my golf game. My best estimate is that I'm around a 40 handicap, but I'm thinking about 10 strokes will come off with a decent driver since I tend to hit about 80% of my drives to the right (most of which end up in the rough or the next fairway over.

    I'm hoping to approach a 15-20 handicap by the end of the year, I'll be playing around 36 holes a week.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    If you're new you need to take some lessons. Get a package deal and do what the instructor tells you to do. The more you keep practicing a bad swing the longer it will take you to get better. I would wait until you have a decent swing prior to buying new clubs. If you are brand new to golf and think you'll get better without lessons you are correct. However, your improvement will be 10X faster with lessons and you'll have a chance to become a really good golfer. Once you have the proper grip, stance and swing you don't need to keep taking lessons. Maybe once or twice a year at most. Oh, by the way, 330 lbs is nothing. I can curl that much.

  3. #3
    I'm hoping that was sarcastic. Anyway, I'm considering lessons, but I'll probably hold off until the fall because the university offers a one credit golf class that I can take without paying any additional tuition. Free golf class > $40/hour golf class

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    There's nothing wrong with getting some new clubs and working on a swing at the same time. From what you have posted, it sounds like you are in bad need of some new clubs. How much you able to spend?
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    I'm hoping that was sarcastic. Anyway, I'm considering lessons, but I'll probably hold off until the fall because the university offers a one credit golf class that I can take without paying any additional tuition. Free golf class > $40/hour golf class

    If you're 6'-0" and 260 then benching 330 isn't that big of a deal. I'm 5-9, 160 lbs and about 3 years ago I could bench 250. That means that you bench 126% of your body weight while I bench 156%. Bench press has very little to do with how far you hit the ball. Athleticism, talent and the quick-fire muscles are what produce amazing distances. I seriously doubt that you'll get good instruction from a college golf class. You'd be better off spending your money on lessons than on new clubs. Shaft flex doesn't matter when you're a 40 handicap.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    If you're 6'-0" and 260 then benching 330 isn't that big of a deal. I'm 5-9, 160 lbs and about 3 years ago I could bench 250. That means that you bench 126% of your body weight while I bench 156%. Bench press has very little to do with how far you hit the ball. Athleticism, talent and the quick-fire muscles are what produce amazing distances. I seriously doubt that you'll get good instruction from a college golf class. You'd be better off spending your money on lessons than on new clubs. Shaft flex doesn't matter when you're a 40 handicap.
    If he's playing second rate clubs, a driver that is too flexible for his swing speed, and hodge-podge of graphite and steel shafted irons, I think he needs a new set of clubs along with getting lessons.
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    If he's playing second rate clubs, a driver that is too flexible for his swing speed, and hodge-podge of graphite and steel shafted irons, I think he needs a new set of clubs along with getting lessons.
    Why? If he's shooting 115 on a par 72 then he needs to learn how to swing the club properly. Who cares if it's a regular or stiff flex shaft? How can he be properly fitted if he's shooting 115? Once he gets a proper grip, stance and swing his fitting might be completely different than it otherwise would have been if he took no lessons at all.

    There's no such thing as second rate clubs if you're a 40 handicap. Unless you're talking about those big plastic kids clubs that you can buy at Target for $9.99...or Mizunos.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    Aloha, I am new to golf and could use some help.

    I am 21, and played my first 18 holes about a month ago. Since then, I have played maybe 80 holes of golf, and hit maybe 1000 balls at the driving range.

    I have a large build; I'm about 6'0 260 and have always been naturally strong - I benchpress around 330.

    For this reason, golf has seemed to fit me pretty well. Despite this being my first experience with golf, I drive the ball between 240-270 pretty regularly despite having no real backswing or follow through, while using a club that is clearly not meant for me. I have a set of second-hand clubs which are probably at least 10-15 years old.

    The issue I am having is that I have a pretty god awful slice on my drive. While I am generally inconsistent with my iron shots, my drive is consistently to the right. After showing my club to a local course pro, he said I'm slicing it because my hips lead my club face. Apparently my driver has too much flex, especially for a guy my size. He says there's nothing fundamentally wrong with my swing that is causing the slice, just that the club face isn't keeping up with my swing.

    So, I'm now in the market for some clubs. I'm hoping to pick up a driver, a 3W, and maybe a 6-iron. I recently used a steel shaft 7-iron and the difference was amazing. My entire set of old clubs are graphite shafts and just picking up the steel shaft made it feel just right. I immediately hit three shots perfectly about 80-100 feet high, 150 yards, and dead straight with almost no effort.

    Are there any recommendations you can make when it comes to clubs. I'm going to try for a driver that is a bit stiffer, and probably get some steel shaft irons since it seems to work for me.

    Also, can you tell me what to expect when it comes to the development of my golf game. My best estimate is that I'm around a 40 handicap, but I'm thinking about 10 strokes will come off with a decent driver since I tend to hit about 80% of my drives to the right (most of which end up in the rough or the next fairway over.

    I'm hoping to approach a 15-20 handicap by the end of the year, I'll be playing around 36 holes a week.

    Thanks.
    If I were you, I would spend more time on a good par-3 executive course, learn to play with your iron, practice your short game, pitching, chipping and putting... that's where you will lower your scores. Once you "groove" in a good, sound golf swing, then your driver and woods would become your friend than your enemy. Taking lesson won't hurt, but practice on a par-3 course would help you more if you could analyze your mistakes.
    My 2-cents

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    If I were you, I would spend more time on a good par-3 executive course, learn to play with your iron, practice your short game, pitching, chipping and putting... that's where you will lower your scores. Once you "groove" in a good, sound golf swing, then your driver and woods would become your friend than your enemy. Taking lesson won't hurt, but practice on a par-3 course would help you more if you could analyze your mistakes.
    My 2-cents

    Dude is 6'-0", 260 and Somoan. He ain't going to a pitch and putt.

  10. #10
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    Hey KF,

    Do you find that benching 330 gives you better calves?
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  11. #11
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    If you are ebay savey get a set of irons, driver and 3 wood from there. Get steel shafts in the irons, either dynamic gold S300 or R300. They are a common shaft. Buy standard length or 1/2 over. These specs may not be perfect for you but they will be a start and you'll get a set for under $150. Buy a good middle of the range brand of periphally weighted irons like cobras for example. Buy a Taylormade or Ping driver and 3 or 5 wood a few years old (ping G5 or TM burner for eg.) with a stock stiff shaft. again you'll get both for about $150 combined. This will give you a very servicable set. If you have money left just get 2 or 3 lessons on the fundamentals and go from there. Having a half decent set of sticks will help you improve but lessons are more important so don't skip them. You'll be good to go for under $500. If you can't raise that then you will just have to use what you have and improvement will be slower.
    Cobra ZL 9.5 Stock stiff.Sonartec SS 3.5 14*Sonartec HB-001 21* Cally Diablo Forged 4-6 nippons, 2013 x forged 7-pw pxi 5.5 TM rac 50/6 gw. Fourteen MT-28 54 & 58 S400 Daddy Long Legs 35"TM Lethal

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    Dude is 6'-0", 260 and Somoan. He ain't going to a pitch and putt.
    keep your ego home, There are several good 4500-yd par-3 executive courses around, That where I believe most of us should start. It teaches us a lot about iron play, short game etc... PAY ME NOW or PAY ME LATER

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    keep your ego home, There are several good 4500-yd par-3 executive courses around, That where I believe most of us should start. It teaches us a lot about iron play, short game etc... PAY ME NOW or PAY ME LATER
    I agree with this. Confidence is a big thing in golf. I think it is good to start off on a course that is less challenging, so you can build your confidence and progressively play at better courses as your game improves. Starting out on a championship course before you have the required skills can be soul destroying for a newbie. And you make a good point that par 3 courses give you lots of short game practice, which will come in handy when you eventually go out in the big bad world. Another advantage of good par 3 courses over short crap 'normal' courses, is that good par 3 courses have lot's of longish par 3 holes which makes you hit your longer irons frequently. If you play a short normal course you will just be hitting driver/wedge all the time, and won't be able to handle long iron approaches when you get to play long courses from the tips. Some of the best long iron players I've ever met learnt to play the game on par 3 courses.

    P.S. Kid, if I were you I'd be thinking of going on a diet if you want to be competitive at golf anywhere past your 25th birthday. You may find it okay now, but I guarantee you will struggle if you put on any more weight, and I can tell you from experience that you will put on weight naturally from about your early 20s onward unless you cut down your calories.
    Last edited by Not a hacker; 03-04-2010 at 04:29 PM.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    Aloha, I am new to golf and could use some help.

    I am 21, and played my first 18 holes about a month ago. Since then, I have played maybe 80 holes of golf, and hit maybe 1000 balls at the driving range.

    I have a large build; I'm about 6'0 260 and have always been naturally strong - I benchpress around 330.

    For this reason, golf has seemed to fit me pretty well. Despite this being my first experience with golf, I drive the ball between 240-270 pretty regularly despite having no real backswing or follow through, while using a club that is clearly not meant for me. I have a set of second-hand clubs which are probably at least 10-15 years old.

    The issue I am having is that I have a pretty god awful slice on my drive. While I am generally inconsistent with my iron shots, my drive is consistently to the right. After showing my club to a local course pro, he said I'm slicing it because my hips lead my club face. Apparently my driver has too much flex, especially for a guy my size. He says there's nothing fundamentally wrong with my swing that is causing the slice, just that the club face isn't keeping up with my swing.

    So, I'm now in the market for some clubs. I'm hoping to pick up a driver, a 3W, and maybe a 6-iron. I recently used a steel shaft 7-iron and the difference was amazing. My entire set of old clubs are graphite shafts and just picking up the steel shaft made it feel just right. I immediately hit three shots perfectly about 80-100 feet high, 150 yards, and dead straight with almost no effort.

    Are there any recommendations you can make when it comes to clubs. I'm going to try for a driver that is a bit stiffer, and probably get some steel shaft irons since it seems to work for me.

    Also, can you tell me what to expect when it comes to the development of my golf game. My best estimate is that I'm around a 40 handicap, but I'm thinking about 10 strokes will come off with a decent driver since I tend to hit about 80% of my drives to the right (most of which end up in the rough or the next fairway over.

    I'm hoping to approach a 15-20 handicap by the end of the year, I'll be playing around 36 holes a week.

    Thanks.

    Number one - learn the basic ballflight laws so you can maybe spot any problems in your swing which are creating your undesirable ball flights. Read here:

    http://www.majorgolflesson.com/ball-flight-law/

    http://www.vipgolfacademy.com/golf_a...all_flight.asp

    Once you understand that, you'll have a serious leg up on most other beginners and should be ready for a proper swing analysis/clubfitting session. Once you know a little about your swing tendencies it will become much easier to select the appropriate set of clubs.

    The best advice I can give you if you really want to get better is to not depend on your clubs to fix your swing problems - you'll improve much faster initially if you forget about your score, and just work on your fundamentals. The scores will come down as you become more experienced and proficient - try to resist taking shortcuts because they will only stunt your development and make the process take longer than it otherwise should.

    Hope that helps.



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  15. #15
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    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=clemshaw#g/u

    You can pick up lot of good points from this instructor, FREE

  16. #16
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    I didn't even bother looking at the above YouTube videos, but I can only assume they are done by a hack. If you REALLY want to learn the proper swing and fundamentals that 99% of amateurs fail to ever comprehend, there is only one source on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf

    /thread closed/

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolCat
    I didn't even bother looking at the above YouTube videos, but I can only assume they are done by a hack. If you REALLY want to learn the proper swing and fundamentals that 99% of amateurs fail to ever comprehend, there is only one source on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/larryrsf

    /thread closed/
    I was browsing the Long Drivers of America (or whatever LDA stands for) last night and found a thread dedicated to the whippy tempomaster. Some of the bombers were talking about how they like to give the old WTM a few swings when they lose their rhythm.

    Larry is legit.
    Last edited by The Purist; 03-05-2010 at 06:33 AM.
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  18. #18
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    kidfreedom, welcome to GR. Dude, you're raising an issue that hasn't really gotten play on this board and it's overdue: How fat is too fat to play golf? I"m talking in terms of making a proper swing. But it"s also true you re going to ruin every green you step on.

    I say skip a few luaus and things will get better for everyone.
    GR lives...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    I'm hoping that was sarcastic. Anyway, I'm considering lessons, but I'll probably hold off until the fall because the university offers a one credit golf class that I can take without paying any additional tuition. Free golf class > $40/hour golf class
    By autumn, you should have been able to successfully groove multiple errors which will take more time to unlearn then, vs. learning proper setup, grip and some basic mechanics now. False economy.......
    I'm with Famousdavis on this one. I've been there, done the "grinding it out with thousands of range balls" technique, and you certainly can "improve" that way. But you won't improve nearly as fast as if you learn some basics right at the outset.
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    kidfreedom, welcome to GR. Dude, you're raising an issue that hasn't really gotten play on this board and it's overdue: How fat is too fat to play golf? I"m talking in terms of making a proper swing. But it"s also true you re going to ruin every green you step on.

    I say skip a few luaus and things will get better for everyone.
    I don't know about that Lorenzo...There is other culture fat, and then there is Somoan fat...They put out the fastest / most agile fat athletes on the planet...Somoans are like 50 times more likely than the average human being of becoming an NFL player.
    The views expressed by The Purist do not necessarily represent the views of The Purist. Any posts by the Purist should not be relied upon for truth or accuracy, and should be viewed at your own risk.

  21. #21
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    Done run off another newbie wit ur sheet
    GHD
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    I don't know about that Lorenzo...There is other culture fat, and then there is Somoan fat...They put out the fastest / most agile fat athletes on the planet...Somoans are like 50 times more likely than the average human being of becoming an NFL player.
    You're preaching to the choir, Tony Siragusa was ny favorite player. But this is golf and Samoa is further from Hawaii than the Midwest is from a cultural center.
    GR lives...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by groundhogday
    Done run off another newbie wit ur sheet
    GHD
    I hope not, I think we can all learn from each other. I'd like to know what fat people are thinking. When Spank gets home from work, I think he'll have something to say about this.
    GR lives...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by groundhogday
    Done run off another newbie wit ur sheet
    GHD
    The beauty of this board is that....well.......you never know. He could be a newbie, or he could be the 137th personality of someone already here. Ah.....the anonymous internet.....
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  25. #25
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    Piss on these posers, you get that weight moving and you'll kill the ball. Find some place you can demo some clubs and like, start the haggling or ebay and your set. Ping eye 2s are a dime a dozen and FD will love you long time. I,m about your weight and a little shorter, and at the range yesterday they all stopped to watch me rip some drives. I,m hurting a little today though. As far as lessons, get a few rounds under your belt, than talk lessons with a reputable teaching pro
    Tm R9 420cc 9.5 Motore Tm R9 3 wood rip phenom, Titleist 909h 19* 24* voodoo, Scratch EZ-1 ds i80,steelfiber 3 or 4. 5-9 KBS, ds 47* jlm, pdg 53* ds 60* Odyssey Black 2 ball tour blade 33.5" Lethal

  26. #26
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    By the way......when did someone saying "Aloha" make them a Samoan? If I say, "Mama mia," that doesn't make me Italian.......



    It reminds me of the ancient joke:

    A guy walks up to the counter and orders Polish sausage. The clerk says, "You must be Polish."

    "If I had asked for Swedish meatballs, would that make me Swedish? If I had asked for a burrito, would that have made me Mexican? Don't stereotype me."

    "No, the reason I knew you were Polish was that this is a hardware store."

    A guy with a Polish surname told me that one a long time ago......
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    The beauty of this board is that....well.......you never know. He could be a newbie, or he could be the 137th personality of someone already here. Ah.....the anonymous internet.....
    Seldom right
    GHD
    Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
    Sun Tzu

    "There is an old saying: If a man comes home with sand in his cuffs and cockleburs in his pants, don't ask him what he shot."
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by groundhogday
    Seldom right
    GHD
    And PROUD of it.....
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    Piss on these posers, you get that weight moving and you'll kill the ball. Find some place you can demo some clubs and like, start the haggling or ebay and your set. Ping eye 2s are a dime a dozen and FD will love you long time. I,m about your weight and a little shorter, and at the range yesterday they all stopped to watch me rip some drives. I,m hurting a little today though. As far as lessons, get a few rounds under your belt, than talk lessons with a reputable teaching pro
    This was very enlightening. All this time I thought your screen nane had to do with your address, not what you have for lunch.
    GR lives...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    This was very enlightening. All this time I thought your screen nane had to do with your address, not what you have for lunch.
    Nothing to do with my address. Just a knickname a friend gave me and it kind of stuck. Hogan race engines is where I hung,almost 20 years ago, and built a drag car to compete in fast street car shootouts. They claimed my s,hit would run faster if I cleaned the burger wrappers out, hence 12sandwich. I call Hogan every few months for verbal abuse. The truth is I dont eat fast food or drink pop, but have always fought a weight problem, could be the fine Italian dining that caters to the Culver elite, close by. My lowest weight in 25 years was when I lived in Acapulco a few years and ran a resort fu,ked everything in sight and partied all night, everything was in kilos down there but I was 78 kilos. But I drop about 20 pounds soon cause I walk alot more during golfing season, which my local goat track opens this weekend
    Tm R9 420cc 9.5 Motore Tm R9 3 wood rip phenom, Titleist 909h 19* 24* voodoo, Scratch EZ-1 ds i80,steelfiber 3 or 4. 5-9 KBS, ds 47* jlm, pdg 53* ds 60* Odyssey Black 2 ball tour blade 33.5" Lethal

  31. #31
    I'm ignoring the bench statement, the bench I have is almost completely untrained, which is why I spoke of natural strength. I'm going to get lessons eventually, but I'm not too worried about that for now. The problem with the clubs is that the shafts are simply too weak for me. As much as not having proper lessons will create poor habits, so will having clubs that cause a permanent slice because I then have to adjust to them and when I switch to clubs that suit me better, I'll have a bad swing to correct.

    Anyway, I picked up a cheap set of Adams irons, and a wilson staff driver. Immediately, I have seen a difference. I played poorly yesterday (drive sucked for maybe the first 12 holes) and still shot 6 shots lower than my previous best at our local course. I had also never shot par on a hole prior to purchasing these new clubs, and since then I have parred 3 of the 27 holes I have played.

    I've been playing for 5 weeks now and I'm around a 30-35 handicap, so I've definitely seen an improvement.

  32. #32
    One of the reasons I am playing so much golf is to drop weight. I'm taking the firefighter exam in the summer, and while I can already meet the physical demands of the test, I feel like getting a bit lighter.

  33. #33
    Thanks for the reply, I've watched tons of video and have picked up pointers wherever I can get them. My brother's wife is a former collegiate golfer and I'll be getting some help from her and a friend I have who played at Arizona St.

  34. #34
    Just because I live in Hawaii does not mean I am Samoan...

    I've got some weight to drop, but I also just have a large build to begin with. I have abs at 220 pounds. Golf has helped me drop 15 pounds from 275 and I'll be around 235 by June.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    I hope not, I think we can all learn from each other. I'd like to know what fat people are thinking. When Spank gets home from work, I think he'll have something to say about this.
    Lucky for us, we never have to look very to hard to know what stupid people are thinking.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    Just because I live in Hawaii does not mean I am Samoan...

    I've got some weight to drop, but I also just have a large build to begin with. I have abs at 220 pounds. Golf has helped me drop 15 pounds from 275 and I'll be around 235 by June.
    So your Tongan then?

    P.S. Zo, I thik you've just been zinged by a 260lb Newbie.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    So your Tongan then?

    P.S. Zo, I thik you've just been zinged by a 260lb Newbie.
    Not quite a newbie. Not quite a zing. And apparently drug induced. At least I would hope so for his sake. Incoherence and uncontrollqble munchies. It adds up.
    GR lives...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    Not quite a newbie. Not quite a zing. And apparently drug induced. At least I would hope so for his sake. Incoherence and uncontrollqble munchies. It adds up.
    I just noted I spelt 'your' instead of 'you're'. I hope Dorkie doesn't notice.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfreedom
    I'm ignoring the bench statement, the bench I have is almost completely untrained, which is why I spoke of natural strength. I'm going to get lessons eventually, but I'm not too worried about that for now. The problem with the clubs is that the shafts are simply too weak for me. As much as not having proper lessons will create poor habits, so will having clubs that cause a permanent slice because I then have to adjust to them and when I switch to clubs that suit me better, I'll have a bad swing to correct.

    Anyway, I picked up a cheap set of Adams irons, and a wilson staff driver. Immediately, I have seen a difference. I played poorly yesterday (drive sucked for maybe the first 12 holes) and still shot 6 shots lower than my previous best at our local course. I had also never shot par on a hole prior to purchasing these new clubs, and since then I have parred 3 of the 27 holes I have played.

    I've been playing for 5 weeks now and I'm around a 30-35 handicap, so I've definitely seen an improvement.
    Sounds to me like you were going to do it your way from the very start. That's typical of a young, macho guy who brags about benching. Whatever, it will take you much longer to get good by doing it your own way. I seriously doubt your score improved due to your iron shots.

  40. #40
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    You know, when I first joined, I almost went for a screen name like Kidfreedom's. It was more like The Boys Have Freedom. It was right about the time I stopped wearing underwear.
    GR lives...

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