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  1. #1
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    Golf GPS apps for iphone

    I recently was looking at my phone bills. It became obvious my wife was exceeding her minutes. I was averaging 3 to 4 hundred a month. for 2 phones and a air card for the laptops. We recently saw at&t taking over are area, and offering some pretty reasonable promos. I dropped the air card, upped the minutes, bought a iphone 3gs for a hundred bucks, now use it for the internet at home. My bill should be no more than 2 hundred now. I,m cruzin the app store, and cant resist the golflogix free install. Nice color screen, aerial views of the courses, seems pretty dogone accurate. I couldnt break down and by a dedicated golf gps. But this is free for the moment, and awfull handy when I,m 200 yards and in. Dont have to look for yardage markers anymore, I just glance at the phone laying down in the golf car, leave it on, so I dont have to piss with it. I,m gonna velcro the thing to my speedcart. Now the the big question is, will it take off 4 strokes? I,m not sure what happens when the trial 24 hours is up. If it melts down, or gives you wrong yardages. I think you still get yardages, but lose the feature for gir, scorecard, handicap, chips , sand shots, drives to the left and right, fairways hit. etc.. I,m not much of tech geek, but I can justify a phone with a built in golf gps. One of my buddys got a sonocaddie, were playing tomorrow. Its gonna be interesting to see if the numbers are close.
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  2. #2
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    Good luck getting 4+ hours out of an I-Phone 3G battery with the screen left on and bright enough to see in daylight. Let us know what hole it dies on.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    Good luck getting 4+ hours out of an I-Phone 3G battery with the screen left on and bright enough to see in daylight. Let us know what hole it dies on.
    I can see were as time wears on the battery, that could be a problem. Yesterday was not a problem, as the Bass lake festival was going on, parades and lots of retards on the lake, not the course. So I was able to get a 3 hour round in. the battery was over half charged when I was done. Actually for 9 holes I would let the thing go to sleep, and only used it on approach shots, inside 200. I wonder if they offer a solar charger?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    I can see were as time wears on the battery, that could be a problem. Yesterday was not a problem, as the Bass lake festival was going on, parades and lots of retards on the lake, not the course. So I was able to get a 3 hour round in. the battery was over half charged when I was done. Actually for 9 holes I would let the thing go to sleep, and only used it on approach shots, inside 200. I wonder if they offer a solar charger?
    I was referring to leaving it on continuously for 4 hrs. Don't know about solar power but there are back-up batteries available. I'd consider them but would rather put that money into an I-Phone 4, once they get the major flaws sorted out, as it supposedly has better battery life and a more efficient screen.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    I was referring to leaving it on continuously for 4 hrs. Don't know about solar power but there are back-up batteries available. I'd consider them but would rather put that money into an I-Phone 4, once they get the major flaws sorted out, as it supposedly has better battery life and a more efficient screen.
    I think those flaws are being extremely overhyped. If a case can fix the so called antenna flaw that has affected absolutely no one I know, I like to have mine in a case, anyway. I've only had the 3GS for a year, so I can't justify the upgrade, yet. But damnit! I want one of those!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    I think those flaws are being extremely overhyped. If a case can fix the so called antenna flaw that has affected absolutely no one I know, I like to have mine in a case, anyway. I've only had the 3GS for a year, so I can't justify the upgrade, yet. But damnit! I want one of those!
    I'm in the same boat having had the 3G for even less time, so I'm going to make myself wait. Although I have noticed I've been handling it kind of recklessly lately. Apple succeeded in sucking me in, I'd have a hard time living without one for even a day. If they reach advertised 4G speeds at some point, 99% of all people will be hooked.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    I'm in the same boat having had the 3G for even less time, so I'm going to make myself wait. Although I have noticed I've been handling it kind of recklessly lately. Apple succeeded in sucking me in, I'd have a hard time living without one for even a day. If they reach advertised 4G speeds at some point, 99% of all people will be hooked.
    Damnit! I need a new phone. I would love to have the iphone, but at&t blows in my area...then again who uses a phone for talking anymore. New iphone or new droid?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    Good luck getting 4+ hours out of an I-Phone 3G battery with the screen left on and bright enough to see in daylight. Let us know what hole it dies on.
    +1

    I use GolfCard on my Android phone and if the round takes 4+ hours, my phone is almost completely dead. Works fantastic, just sucks the battery like no tomorrow.

  9. #9
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    I have an app that i use for keeping stats. It also have a gps function but I rarely use it. It doesn't use much of the batter if you don't use the GPS. As mentioned earlier there are external batteries for anywhere from $20-$50 that work with just about any type of cell phone.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    I have an app that i use for keeping stats. It also have a gps function but I rarely use it. It doesn't use much of the batter if you don't use the GPS. As mentioned earlier there are external batteries for anywhere from $20-$50 that work with just about any type of cell phone.
    Just set it to let the screen go dark after 30 seconds or so. When you need it, wake it up again. The screen takes far more battery than any other app.

    Larry

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    Just set it to let the screen go dark after 30 seconds or so. When you need it, wake it up again. The screen takes far more battery than any other app.

    Larry
    Yeah that's not the issue. It's having the app open and running, and the GPS being on and working whether the screen is on or not. Yes the screen sucks a lot of juice, but that's not the reason it's killing the battery. My screen is set to sleep after 15 seconds and it doesn't help.

  12. #12
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    A laser range finder works better than any damned GPS. It gives precise yardage in an instant instead of having to fumble around guessing what position the pin is in and all that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    Yeah that's not the issue. It's having the app open and running, and the GPS being on and working whether the screen is on or not. Yes the screen sucks a lot of juice, but that's not the reason it's killing the battery. My screen is set to sleep after 15 seconds and it doesn't help.
    It's got to be the GPS receiver and the constant use of the processor that is killing the battery.

    FYI - if you decide to compete you can't use a phone during the round. Even if you put it in safe or airplane mode. Too hard to police communications using text or some other feature.

  14. #14
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    Think the Golflogics app is only a 24 hour trial. 30 bucks to buy it.

    Be a man and judge the distance with your eyes.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf
    Just set it to let the screen go dark after 30 seconds or so. When you need it, wake it up again. The screen takes far more battery than any other app.

    Larry
    Wow. Good advice...

    ...for 1990.

    Larry: screens don't use very much power any more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    It's got to be the GPS receiver and the constant use of the processor that is killing the battery.

    FYI - if you decide to compete you can't use a phone during the round. Even if you put it in safe or airplane mode. Too hard to police communications using text or some other feature.
    I got the Bushnell 1600 Tournament Edition Rangefinder and I'm looking forward to trying it out. I got it as a gift and am scared to death of losing it on the course. I'm pretty bad about losing headcovers and other stuff on the course.

  17. #17
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    How many people on this site really have the game to hit a shot exactly what the gps says? Any body should be able to get a close idea of yardage by the course markers or if they are are listed on the sprinkler heads. Some of my buddies have them and I usually am within five yards just be eyeballing.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Think the Golflogics app is only a 24 hour trial. 30 bucks to buy it.

    Be a man and judge the distance with your eyes.
    I downloaded Free Caddie for Droid awhile back and... let's see, I've used it...

    Never.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    Damnit! I need a new phone. I would love to have the iphone, but at&t blows in my area...then again who uses a phone for talking anymore. New iphone or new droid?
    No question, AT&T sucks in alot of places. At home in SoCal it works well, as it does south of Boston where I am at the moment, but overall it's really hit or miss. STFU Luke Wilson.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    I downloaded Free Caddie for Droid awhile back and... let's see, I've used it...

    Never.
    You sir, are a man.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1135
    How many people on this site really have the game to hit a shot exactly what the gps says? Any body should be able to get a close idea of yardage by the course markers or if they are are listed on the sprinkler heads. Some of my buddies have them and I usually am within five yards just be eyeballing.
    I don't mean to sound humble but I got game and I have a GPS. The reason for the GPS is that I have seen a good many course markers as much as 15 yards off their listed yardage.

  22. #22
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    Apples black hole is trying to suck me in. My golf logix 24 hour ran out, and of course I lost the yardage part.39.95 annual fee. Shotzoom seems rated better, and I think its only 30.00 dollars, and a one time fee. Four of us played Mystic Hills today, a tough P.D Dye course, and I found myself bugging my buddy with the sonocaddie for yardages a few times. That course has alot of elevation changes, thus making estimating yardages a little harder. I dont play the same courses over and over, I enjoy diversity, so I play some new or different courses every year. Some of these courses have some pretty screwed up yardage markers, as in not correct. So I will be purchasing one of these apps. Now if I can find a good course arround Kokomo IN theres a great titty bar called hip huggers there.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tee'd Off
    I don't mean to sound humble but I got game and I have a GPS. The reason for the GPS is that I have seen a good many course markers as much as 15 yards off their listed yardage.
    This. I play some courses that have casual markers at best, and a few others that don't even bother.

    And it's not about an exact yardage for me. I just need a decent number to the center of the green and I can figure from there depending on pin placement. All these guys with calibrated eyes, I'd love to know what number they call out and how it really compares to the real number. I have problems just eyeballing if there are elevation changes, ravines to fly, water to carry, etc.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    This. I play some courses that have casual markers at best, and a few others that don't even bother.

    And it's not about an exact yardage for me. I just need a decent number to the center of the green and I can figure from there depending on pin placement. All these guys with calibrated eyes, I'd love to know what number they call out and how it really compares to the real number. I have problems just eyeballing if there are elevation changes, ravines to fly, water to carry, etc.
    I query my friends as well. The better ones with good knowledge of the course is usually within 1/2 club until they get inside 50 then all hell breaks loose. Your eyes do strange things to distance when you don't have a marker. This is where my game with the rf has gotten better, inside about 80 yards. There isn't a feeling and a shot that comes up short of long. It's a feeling coupled with a known yardage and the results of the shot. Poor or good. My brain has a better chance of learning by knowing the correct yardage.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tee'd Off
    I don't mean to sound humble but I got game and I have a GPS. The reason for the GPS is that I have seen a good many course markers as much as 15 yards off their listed yardage.
    So don't pay attention to the yardage markers. ****ing duh. You can't look at the shot and decide if it's a 130, 140, 145 yard shot?

    In 18 holes, I might look for a reference from a yardage marker 5 times.

    Tell me I have 143.578 yards, I don't know what I'm hitting. Let me look at the shot, consider a few things, and I'll pick a club within in 5 seconds, already having finished half of my pre-shot routine.

    I'm great. You should feel blessed to be posting on the same discussion board as me.

    Carry on.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    So don't pay attention to the yardage markers. ****ing duh. You can't look at the shot and decide if it's a 130, 140, 145 yard shot?

    In 18 holes, I might look for a reference from a yardage marker 5 times.

    Tell me I have 143.578 yards, I don't know what I'm hitting. Let me look at the shot, consider a few things, and I'll pick a club within in 5 seconds, already having finished half of my pre-shot routine.

    I'm great. You should feel blessed to be posting on the same discussion board as me.

    Carry on.
    The pros have there highly paid caddies for more than carrying there bag. They map out the yardages, distances to hazards, back, front, center pin locations etc.. There highly paid human gps. Familarity breeds contempt, when you play the same course over and over. Go on a vacation and play some other tougher courses, tell us how you do, when your away from your homey, cozy course. I,ve played no less than 15 different courses this season alone, without a gps. I,m not so stupid, to not adknowledge that I could have played better with one.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    The pros have there highly paid caddies for more than carrying there bag. They map out the yardages, distances to hazards, back, front, center pin locations etc.. There highly paid human gps. Familarity breeds contempt, when you play the same course over and over. Go on a vacation and play some other tougher courses, tell us how you do, when your away from your homey, cozy course. I,ve played no less than 15 different courses this season alone, without a gps. I,m not so stupid, to not adknowledge that I could have played better with one.
    I find the range finder more useful especially on courses you don't know. This is especially true when i'm out of position and want to lay up to somewhere other than the green or on a par 5. You can shot objects like trees, hill sides, fat people, flags, carts, etc.

    GA - try playing on some old school courses that the designers built optical illusions to screw with your ability to judge distances. Without those 150 yard markers you'd fly the green or come up short more often then you care to admit.

  28. #28
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    So let me get this straight, you pay expensive greens fees on courses you know are so badly maintained that the yardage markers are off by 15 feet? Then your solution is to spend even more money on another gadget.

    If I discover the markers are that off, I'm making a scene and asking for a refund or at very least a couple of Gin & Tonics on the house. There are too many good groundskeepers out there that care about their tracks (public, private, whatever...). The hacks that allow their courses to degrade to that point are an insult to the profession.

    You as a consumer have a right to complain about course conditions... if I see aerated greens or what looks like a rock quarry in sand traps, I'm going to complain and expect some compensation. Allowing any course to become a chopped-up hacker's paradise is as much on the golfers than the groundskeepers.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    So let me get this straight, you pay expensive greens fees on courses you know are so badly maintained that the yardage markers are off by 15 feet? Then your solution is to spend even more money on another gadget.

    If I discover the markers are that off, I'm making a scene and asking for a refund or at very least a couple of Gin & Tonics on the house. There are too many good groundskeepers out there that care about their tracks (public, private, whatever...). The hacks that allow their courses to degrade to that point are an insult to the profession.

    You as a consumer have a right to complain about course conditions... if I see aerated greens or what looks like a rock quarry in sand traps, I'm going to complain and expect some compensation. Allowing any course to become a chopped-up hacker's paradise is as much on the golfers than the groundskeepers.
    Without that expensive gadget how do you know the markers are off? Once you own one it's just a passing observation.

    Honestly, I've been seeing more and more courses are not maintaining the sprinkler yardage markers since most avid golfers own GPS and RF'ers.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    I find the range finder more useful especially on courses you don't know. This is especially true when i'm out of position and want to lay up to somewhere other than the green or on a par 5. You can shot objects like trees, hill sides, fat people, flags, carts, etc.

    GA - try playing on some old school courses that the designers built optical illusions to screw with your ability to judge distances. Without those 150 yard markers you'd fly the green or come up short more often then you care to admit.
    I have a old school bushnell rangefinder, not the laser, this one uses a focus element. I felt pretty nerdy using that thing 10-15 years ago a couple times. I would like to try a newer model laser nikon or bushnell. The only thing about the gps units, whether its a iphone or dedicated model, there more discreet. I was in a late model ez go golf car the other day, and you could lay it in the middle tray, where its dark,I would glance down and get the yardage, without wasting a second, and nobody arround new I was using it, and cause the sun wasnt beating down on it, you could see the screen easily.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    So let me get this straight, you pay expensive greens fees on courses you know are so badly maintained that the yardage markers are off by 15 feet? Then your solution is to spend even more money on another gadget.

    If I discover the markers are that off, I'm making a scene and asking for a refund or at very least a couple of Gin & Tonics on the house. There are too many good groundskeepers out there that care about their tracks (public, private, whatever...). The hacks that allow their courses to degrade to that point are an insult to the profession.

    You as a consumer have a right to complain about course conditions... if I see aerated greens or what looks like a rock quarry in sand traps, I'm going to complain and expect some compensation. Allowing any course to become a chopped-up hacker's paradise is as much on the golfers than the groundskeepers.
    Go ahead and walk up to the pro shop and demand compensation for yardage markers being off by 10 yards.

    And please PLEASE film it and post it heres so I can see when they laugh you out of the pro shop with your ears all red and steaming because you're pissed.

  32. #32
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    No YOU take a good look at the economy and course traffic right now. I don't know where you live, but the only backed up day (with waiting time) this year was Father's Day. It's wide open right now and country clubs have been dropping fees and begging for members when they are not going bankrupt.

    You take a video of yourself in a supply-side economics class and then take of a video the day your chopper track goes bankrupt because they think the only golf market is for GPS Cart Duffers. It's not out of line at all to voice reasonable complaints about the playability of any given course. I've seen it routinely on every level from muni to country club going back to the 80's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    The pros have there highly paid caddies for more than carrying there bag. They map out the yardages, distances to hazards, back, front, center pin locations etc.. There highly paid human gps. Familarity breeds contempt, when you play the same course over and over. Go on a vacation and play some other tougher courses, tell us how you do, when your away from your homey, cozy course. I,ve played no less than 15 different courses this season alone, without a gps. I,m not so stupid, to not adknowledge that I could have played better with one.
    To a pro, there is a difference between 143 yards, and 149. To you, me, and most everyone else--there isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    No YOU take a good look at the economy and course traffic right now. I don't know where you live, but the only backed up day (with waiting time) this year was Father's Day. It's wide open right now and country clubs have been dropping fees and begging for members when they are not going bankrupt.

    You take a video of yourself in a supply-side economics class and then take of a video the day your chopper track goes bankrupt because they think the only golf market is for GPS Cart Duffers. It's not out of line at all to voice reasonable complaints about the playability of any given course. I've seen it routinely on every level from muni to country club going back to the 80's.
    I live in Arizona where there are plenty of courses and more than enough golfers to keep them in business.

    Whining like a little girl about the markers being off isn't a reasonable complaint. It just makes you look like a dick when you go storming into the pro shop full of your laughable righteous indignity.

    I have a business degree so I've taken the class you arrogant a$$.

    And you're reminding me why I love my native New England, from a distance. Lighten the fukk up Francis.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    I live in Arizona where there are plenty of courses and more than enough golfers to keep them in business.

    Whining like a little girl about the markers being off isn't a reasonable complaint. It just makes you look like a dick when you go storming into the pro shop full of your laughable righteous indignity.

    I have a business degree so I've taken the class you arrogant a$$.

    And you're reminding me why I love my native New England, from a distance. Lighten the fukk up Francis.
    Well, I can't disagree that New England breeds a special kind of arrogant jack off with MA leading the pack. I'm not even from here, but I certainly learned how to be that guy ;-) But, I never said I or really anyone I've ever seen stormed into the shop like a raving lunatic (that was your own fiction). I've probably done this twice in 12 years in a civilized manner and got apologies and comps (not laughter). As a matter of fact I'm friends with several of the local course pros and staff and I feel, as I stated, that the courses that "don't care" are doing a disservice to the profession.

    There is a difference between markers being "off" and being off by 15 yards or 1 1/2 clubs. The courses out there with markers off by 15, shame on them and their staff.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    Well, I can't disagree that New England breeds a special kind of arrogant jack off with MA leading the pack. I'm not even from here, but I certainly learned how to be that guy ;-) But, I never said I or really anyone I've ever seen stormed into the shop like a raving lunatic (that was your own fiction). I've probably done this twice in 12 years in a civilized manner and got apologies and comps (not laughter). As a matter of fact I'm friends with several of the local course pros and staff and I feel, as I stated, that the courses that "don't care" are doing a disservice to the profession.

    There is a difference between markers being "off" and being off by 15 yards or 1 1/2 clubs. The courses out there with markers off by 15, shame on them and their staff.
    You must have a way of charming the boys in the pro shop because I've been there and got a blank stair. Here's one, last year my dad competed in the Senior Olympics and his age played at Harding Park in SFO. Hole number 8 a par 3 has this for distances on the score card and hole sign, Blue 200, white 190, red 170, gold 150. They did not allow distance measuring devices during the round. There was about 20 yards between the blue and the white plates and 10 between the white and the red tees. The first day they played from the blues on this hole. No problem. The second played for the white tees. I caught the error and clubbed my old man at 180 for the whites. The other two golfers didn't pick up on the error and both had one too much club in their hand and had nasty down hill putts.

    After the round I pointed it out to the course official, blank stair. I then talked to the head pro and he admitted they knew the error existed but just shrugged. Most of the guys at the pro shop have little to do with the course management. They run the pro shop and do little outside of that. Private clubs are obviously different.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    To a pro, there is a difference between 143 yards, and 149. To you, me, and most everyone else--there isn't.
    Personally, I don't think GPS devices help your game. In fact, I think they breed indecision. If my ball is between the 150 and 100 yard marker I know what I need to hit. If the pin is in the back of the green I'll adjust and if it's in front I'll adjust. That's just what I be doin'. If you wanna go buy yourself a girly toy and have everyone in the group ask you for yardage then you go do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    Personally, I don't think GPS devices help your game. In fact, I think they breed indecision. If my ball is between the 150 and 100 yard marker I know what I need to hit. If the pin is in the back of the green I'll adjust and if it's in front I'll adjust. That's just what I be doin'. If you wanna go buy yourself a girly toy and have everyone in the group ask you for yardage then you go do that.
    Between 150 and 100?

    I don't hit the same club 135 that I do 115.

    I don't need exact, just to the nearest 5-10 yards.

    Girly Toy? Blow me Capt. Testosterone.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis
    Personally, I don't think GPS devices help your game. In fact, I think they breed indecision. If my ball is between the 150 and 100 yard marker I know what I need to hit. If the pin is in the back of the green I'll adjust and if it's in front I'll adjust. That's just what I be doin'. If you wanna go buy yourself a girly toy and have everyone in the group ask you for yardage then you go do that.
    You have lost it FD. I shot a smooth 73 yesterday. I know that doesnt impress you. 3 over on the front, par on the back. With the help of my buddys sonocaddie, I avoided indecision alot.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    You have lost it FD. I shot a smooth 73 yesterday. I know that doesnt impress you. 3 over on the front, par on the back. With the help of my buddys sonocaddie, I avoided indecision alot.
    Yeah, but you're still a cheating *****.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    To a pro, there is a difference between 143 yards, and 149. To you, me, and most everyone else--there isn't.
    Probably true but if the pin in is front or back it could make a whole club of difference if you are playing to the center of the green. I've said it before the real advantage is the difference between 53 and 59. That's 10% difference between them and it could mean the difference between being the the bunker or being pin high.

    Here's the best part. If you don't want one to get one. Use your eyes. If it's allowed I'm going to get the best information I can before I pull the club and take the shot.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    Yeah, but you're still a cheating *****.
    I suppose so. It was nice the other 3 in the foursome bought 3 pitchers of beer and appetizers. Plus they all agreed it was worth it to see someone shoot some good golf. I put on a good show, in some miserable heat.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    I suppose so. It was nice the other 3 in the foursome bought 3 pitchers of beer and appetizers. Plus they all agreed it was worth it to see someone shoot some good golf. I put on a good show, in some miserable heat.

    All that for a 73 with a gadget that tells you what club to hit? I gotta start playing with your friends!

    Nice playin'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    Probably true but if the pin in is front or back it could make a whole club of difference if you are playing to the center of the green. I've said it before the real advantage is the difference between 53 and 59. That's 10% difference between them and it could mean the difference between being the the bunker or being pin high.

    Here's the best part. If you don't want one to get one. Use your eyes. If it's allowed I'm going to get the best information I can before I pull the club and take the shot.
    Most courses use different color flags to indicate Front-middle-back of the green. Red white and blue. Maybe that's just Canada. If not that, there is a second flag, which can be moved up and down the flag stick to indicate front-middle-back depending on were the flag is.
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  45. #45
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    I have golfshot, with shotzoom software.30 bucks one time fee 33,000 + couses all over the world. Works sweet. Playing in a small tournament tomorrow, that benefits a kids wrestling club. About 40 teams. Screw it I,m using my Iphone with gps , This bunch of guys are popping tops on beers at 8;30 in the morning, Usually drunk at the turn, lots of hooting and hollering, always fun.
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