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  1. #1
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    Official PGA non thread

    As the PGA draws to a close I can't help but notice that there has been next to no interest from GR. The Tour should take this as conclusive proof of it's non major status in the eyes of those who matter, and should forthwith withdraw it from the major roster and replace it with a new major. A tournament that boats great tradition, strong fields (Perry dodging it would be evidence that is has a strong field), and is GR certified would be the minimum requirements IMO. The obvious event that appears to meet all these criteria is the Italian Open, although the Texas State Open has bona fide GR legend Jeff Maggert as a 3 time winner so may be in contention.
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  2. #2
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    So what do you guy's think of the sand trap ruling?
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  3. #3
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    BUNKER MY A$$...

    No player should be held responsible for knowing he's in a "bunker" that's chock full of grass and FANS and hasn't been raked in a year.

    Ba$terds.

    For all DJ knew, it was just a flat sandy spot on the gallery walkway. There are lipped depressions all over that course with NO sand in them.

    But for it to be a 'bunker' you'd think a rake and an occasional removal of long nasty grass would be MANDATORY for a freakin' MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP VENUE.

    it never even occurred to him. I'm not sure it would have occurred to anyone.

    edit-- I realize this post reveals that I am interested in the PGA, unlike most GR members. I apologize to those offended.

    heh.. the official explainer of the ruling is about to have a stroke, live on TV. I can see his veins pulsing on the side of his shiny red-tinted head.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveperkins
    BUNKER MY A$$...

    No player should be held responsible for knowing he's in a "bunker" that's chock full of grass and FANS and hasn't been raked in a year.

    Ba$terds.

    For all DJ knew, it was just a flat sandy spot on the gallery walkway. There are lipped depressions all over that course with NO sand in them.

    But for it to be a 'bunker' you'd think a rake and an occasional removal of long nasty grass would be MANDATORY for a freakin' MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP VENUE.

    it never even occurred to him. I'm not sure it would have occurred to anyone.

    edit-- I realize this post reveals that I am interested in the PGA, unlike most GR members. I apologize to those offended.

    heh.. the official explainer of the ruling is about to have a stroke, live on TV. I can see his veins pulsing on the side of his shiny red-tinted head.
    Sounds like some high drama at the finish. What happened? I only get the net so i saw that Johnson took 7 on the last but didn't know how.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Sounds like some high drama at the finish. What happened? I only get the net so i saw that Johnson took 7 on the last but didn't know how.
    He went to the 18th holding a 1 shot lead. I think he hit driver off the T (could be wrong but if he did Im not sure why) and hit it 30 rows right into the gallery. Took a long time over his 2nd shot.

    If thats a bunker what a joke. It was a sliver of ground no bigger than a golf bag laying on its side.

    He handled it with class from what I saw in the interview. Didnt go all Sergio or anything.

    And Dave is right - the rules dood who was interviewed looked like he was ready to stroke out on TV.

  6. #6
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    Just saw the resultsn of the playoff. Didn't get to see how it happened, but winning a playoff with a bogie doesn't say much for the other guy. Looks like a case of Bubba out choking Kaymer to hand him the title.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Just saw the resultsn of the playoff. Didn't get to see how it happened, but winning a playoff with a bogie doesn't say much for the other guy. Looks like a case of Bubba out choking Kaymer to hand him the title.
    Yeah, both guys came to the 18th tied. 3 hole playoff. Both drove right into rough. Watsons approach fell way short and drowned. Kaymar then just pitched out and put his 3rd on the green. Watsons 4th (after the penalty) overshot the green and went into a bunker. His 5th out of the bunker nearly went in. Hit the pin.

    Kaymar 2 putted for a bogey and won. The crowd was rather mellow IMO.....

  8. #8
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    Bubba darn near holed that fifth shot... hit the stick.. if it had gone in, Kaymer would have sheit himself, methinks.. but you could see Bubba 'backed off' that iron shot that went in the drink. He should have hit right and played for bogey, knowing Kaymer had a sheite lie and would not have been playing for par.. but Bubba aimed at the pin and then sort of backed off the shot, a weak follow through, showed he wasn't mentally committed to it...

    oh well.. Bubba will win majors. Too much talent, this is the seasoning part.

    The whole DJ thing STILL pisses me off. He grounded his club. Big deal. If it's a bunker, then rake the dammn thing and keep the gallery out of it, and GET THE FRICKIN HAY BALES out of there... never saw a bunker in a championship event get so overrun and crapped up and have the gallery WALKING through it... bet that doesn't happen at St. ANdrews. DJ had no idea it was a bunker, and neither did anyone else except the bald headed guys with the clenched buttcheeks back in the clubhouse.
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    Once again, two young talent-laden American pros brain fart and lose. At first, I was outraged and screaming at the boob tube greatly alarming my dog and wife. How could the PGA tour folks be so stupid as to not keep the gallery off bunkers in play no matter how un-bunker like Johnson's drive landing zone appeared. Then, afterl an insufferable delay, the Tour official explains that the situation Dustin found himself in was covered in the local rule sheets passed out to players prior to the first round and explained to them prior to play. Seems like either the player or caddie should be able to read on the 9th grade level or have enough sense to call for a ruling prior to putting clubhead on ground. Stupid course setup for tournament, stupid course design, stupid player, stupid caddie. And then there's the lefty who, in the loser interview, claims that making the Ryder Cup was the only important thing. Loser attitude. Loser decision not to lay up. Deutschland uber Alles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel
    Once again, two young talent-laden American pros brain fart and lose. At first, I was outraged and screaming at the boob tube greatly alarming my dog and wife. How could the PGA tour folks be so stupid as to not keep the gallery off bunkers in play no matter how un-bunker like Johnson's drive landing zone appeared. Then, afterl an insufferable delay, the Tour official explains that the situation Dustin found himself in was covered in the local rule sheets passed out to players prior to the first round and explained to them prior to play. Seems like either the player or caddie should be able to read on the 9th grade level or have enough sense to call for a ruling prior to putting clubhead on ground. Stupid course setup for tournament, stupid course design, stupid player, stupid caddie. And then there's the lefty who, in the loser interview, claims that making the Ryder Cup was the only important thing. Loser attitude. Loser decision not to lay up. Deutschland uber Alles.
    Given Kaymars position on 18 in the sheit....Watson should have layed up. He took too long over the ball. Backed off. That shot lost it for him.

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    Just another great example at how most of these MF rules that have been made up by anal-retentive butt-phuckers needs to be revised. Today's golf rules are for queers. No one beyond a rules official can remember every dot and tittle in the rule book. There needs to be a committee implemented that will go through the rule book and delete all those stupid little idiotic rules that don't mean a shite except another loss for a player trying to work on shotmaking, not trying to impress everyone by how many rules he knows.

    Geez . . . . . . . .
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    AND, anyone replying in a positive way towards these idiotic rules like we saw today, I am automatically going to label as a Mary in my mind for the rest of the duration. Only a Mary would agree that it is a good rule not to ever allow your club to touch the sand in a bunker prior to the shot. Only a Mary would say you gain an unfair advantage whenever you brush a weed with your club on the backswing.

    STOP THE MADNESS!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Just another great example at how most of these MF rules that have been made up by anal-retentive butt-phuckers needs to be revised. Today's golf rules are for queers. No one beyond a rules official can remember every dot and tittle in the rule book. There needs to be a committee implemented that will go through the rule book and delete all those stupid little idiotic rules that don't mean a shite except another loss for a player trying to work on shotmaking, not trying to impress everyone by how many rules he knows.

    Geez . . . . . . . .

    Agreed.

    What a crock of s_hit.

    A guy grounds his club in a piece of nondescript fairway/rough and loses a shot at winning a major yet a few years back rules officials were bending over backwards to remove a boulder in order to kiss Tigers ass - not that they'd probably do that for him now.

    Pure BS!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    AND, anyone replying in a positive way towards these idiotic rules like we saw today, I am automatically going to label as a Mary in my mind for the rest of the duration. Only a Mary would agree that it is a good rule not to ever allow your club to touch the sand in a bunker prior to the shot. Only a Mary would say you gain an unfair advantage whenever you brush a weed with your club on the backswing.

    STOP THE MADNESS!!!!
    The bunker rule is fair enough but you need to know when you are actually in a bunker/hazard. Haven't actually seen the footage but it sounds like he was just in some rough way off the fairway that was a bit sandy. No way to know it was an actual bunker.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    The bunker rule is fair enough but you need to know when you are actually in a bunker/hazzard.

    Bullshite . . . . . you Mary.

    All he did was set his club down on the sand. There is no way that should EVER be a penalty.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Bullshite . . . . . you Mary.

    All he did was set his club down on the sand. There is no way that should EVER be a penalty.
    In a normal bunker I don't have a problem with it but from Dave's post above it sounds like it was a nondescript piece of rough that nobody could tell was a bunker.

    If you didn't have this rule in normal bunkers Kenny Perry would shallow out a moat around his ball leaving it on an elevated little tower/tee of sand.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    In a normal bunker I don't have a problem with it but from Dave's post above it sounds like it was a nondescript piece of rough that nobody could tell was a bunker.

    If you didn't have this rule in normal bunkers Kenny Perry would shallow out a moat around his ball leaving it on an elevated little tower/tee of sand.
    It was, but I don't even see grounding your club in a bunker as being an advantage. I'm not talking about digging out a hole behind the ball, I'm just talking about setting the club down behind the ball. No one is going to be able to convince me that you can gain a BIG advantage by doing this. It is a stupid rule and should be removed along with hundreds of others.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    It was, but I don't even see grounding your club in a bunker as being an advantage. I'm not talking about digging out a hole behind the ball, I'm just talking about setting the club down behind the ball. No one is going to be able to convince me that you can gain a BIG advantage by doing this. It is a stupid rule and should be removed along with hundreds of others.
    Yeah but you allow this at your peril, where do you draw the line? Before long everyone will be Kenny Perrying their lies in the sand.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Yeah but you allow this at your peril, where do you draw the line? Before long everyone will be Kenny Perrying their lies in the sand.
    Well, then, they will all be on equal footing, correct?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Yeah but you allow this at your peril, where do you draw the line? Before long everyone will be Kenny Perrying their lies in the sand.
    I agree with this...

    Sadly the call the was made was the correct call... But it was hard to tell that it was a bunker, It just simply looked as though the crowd had trampled down the grass and worn it thin... There is a walking official with practically every group how difficult would it have been for him to tell DJ that he was in a bunker beforehand so there would be none of this nonsense...

    I think that the bunker rule is a fair one for the reasons kiwi said... But in DJ case ut could have been avoided it they hadn't amended the rules (out side the ropes bunkers are just to be played as waste areas and it was specifically changed for this event [local rules ammendment])

    I mean the whole thing could have been avoided had the USGA made better plannings...

  21. #21
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    Eldridge sucks ass at golf!

    I told you bastards! I told you bastards!!!
    It's not my fault God made me this beautiful.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Well, then, they will all be on equal footing, correct?
    But if they can't touch the sand now... Aren't they already equal????


    Hmmm... Common sense maybe

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Well, then, they will all be on equal footing, correct?
    The rule for grounding your club in a hazard (bunker, water, etc) makes sense. However, the bunker DJ was in was SOOOOOOOO trampled and ruined you couldn't even tell where the outer lip was (aside from the front and back). I think Watson and Kymer should be penalized because I'm pretty sure I saw sand fly on many of their fairway shots. Were they in divots or was it a small bunker on the course?

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    The shot was 60 ft into the thick gallery. They quickly circled the ball in a 6-8 ft circle. when he addressed the ball people where lined up on both sides including inside the so called "bunker". The caddie had to tell the photographers to move. What kind of stupid venue would have people in a bunker when a shot was played? He could not even see the extent of the trampled debris filled sand. It's the coarse's fault for not ushering the sheep of the bull@#%t bunker. The coarse covers their a$-$ with the local rules when it was their inability to provide the required services to conduct a major event.He got robbed!!! There is no excuse for having people in a bunker restricting his ability to identify it as a bunker. It originally looked like a hardpan lie to me. Perhaps coarses should have rules as well that shall result in a hefty fine and give a player a stroke reward if they (the coarse) does something as stupid as this!
    Last edited by jetdriver; 08-15-2010 at 06:33 PM.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

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    Guys, we can ground our club in every other area of the course other than the bunker. Why? It doesn't make sense.

    You guys are just being conformist to the same old stale rules. If you can ground your club everywhere else, then you should be able to do it in the bunker. It's just ONE more rule that a golfer has to remember and can get screwed on.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Guys, we can ground our club in every other area of the course other than the bunker. Why? It doesn't make sense.

    You guys are just being conformist to the same old stale rules. If you can ground your club everywhere else, then you should be able to do it in the bunker. It's just ONE more rule that a golfer has to remember and can get screwed on.
    A bunker is a hazard. You can't ground in a hazard either. Get over it. It's a good rule when a bunker is obviously a bunker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by collegegolfer
    A bunker is a hazard. You can't ground in a hazard either. Get over it. It's a good rule when a bunker is obviously a bunker.
    I fail to see the point.

    Nothing is gained whenever grounding a club in a bunker. Nothing is gained when grounding a club in fairway. It's an anal retentive rule that you guys have come to accept like so many sheep following the ass of the leading ram.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    I fail to see the point.

    Nothing is gained whenever grounding a club in a bunker. Nothing is gained when grounding a club in fairway. It's an anal retentive rule that you guys have come to accept like so many sheep following the ass of the leading ram.
    Why don't we just tee up every shot then??

    Why don't we allow one to throw the ball then??

    Why don't we allow people to mark theire golf ball in the middle of the fw then??


    Rules make the game if you don't like the rules, then don't play... Or is it just that you need an excuse???

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    The shot was 60 ft into the thick gallery. They quickly circled the ball in a 6-8 ft circle. when he addressed the ball people where lined up on both sides including inside the so called "bunker". The caddie had to tell the photographers to move. What kind of stupid venue would have people in a bunker when a shot was played? He could not even see the extent of the trampled debris filled sand. It's the coarse's fault for not ushering the sheep of the bull@#%t bunker. The coarse covers their a$-$ with the local rules when it was their inability to provide the required services to conduct a major event.He got robbed!!! There is no excuse for having people in a bunker restricting his ability to identify it as a bunker. It originally looked like a hardpan lie to me. Perhaps coarses should have rules as well that shall result in a hefty fine and give a player a stroke reward if they (the coarse) does something as stupid as this!
    Poor planning on the Tour's part. Stupid golf course to hold a major on. If the course can't afford to maintain all those little caricatures of traditional Scottish classic links courses, they should be graded out and planted with fescue and left to grow. I can't recall any worse course to host a major since I've been following golf since the '50's. It looks like Landfill by the Sea. Still, Johnson lost because he didn't read and remember the local rules sheet and/or ask a hovering official for an official opinion. I doubt he'll make that mistake again.

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    I agree that the bunker rule is unfortunately there for a reason to stop the Kenny Perry's of the world from unfairly improving their lie, but I also agree that in this case it sounds like Johnson got screwed. But the fact remains that Johnson, then the other two in the playoff, couldn't par the last hole to win, and instead all three choked and sprayed it into the cabbage.

    As to Sooners point about dumb rules, I think accidentally gorunding clubs in hazards and not being able to fix spike markes on the green (they nearly all wear soft spikes so how can the marks defined as spike marks get there?) are pretty dumb rules, but for mine the dumbest by far is the idiotic rule that you don't get relief from sand filled divots on fairways. I know I bang on about this, but I find it incomprehensible that you can hit a perfect shot down the middle of the fairway, only to find that you have to play from a sand filled divot, which could be a very poor lie. If a sand filled divot isn't ground under repair, I don't know what is. rules should be there to punish bad shots, not good ones.
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    That course is a bunker. The whole thing is built on a sand dune. Which is ever changing. I agree with Sooner, its a stupid rule. As long as your not improving your lie, it shouldnt matter. Bubba went for it, and then backed off it, on a crappy lie, from 220 stupid decision. DJ should have known were all the bunkers are. They would have to carry enough notes, it would look like they were carrying a yellowbook.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingman360
    Why don't we just tee up every shot then??

    Why don't we allow one to throw the ball then??

    Why don't we allow people to mark theire golf ball in the middle of the fw then??


    Rules make the game if you don't like the rules, then don't play... Or is it just that you need an excuse???
    Now we're starting to think a bit more outside the box . . . . . . good job, PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Now we're starting to think a bit more outside the box . . . . . . good job, PM.

    Now we know how PM is shooting those sub par scores.
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    Back to the playoff. Did B(l)ubba Watson turn on the waterworks again after losing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Now we know how PM is shooting those sub par scores.
    More like "now we know how SoonerBS broke 80". He shot 97 when he had to follow the rules with Big Dave.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Dustin Johnson is a prick.

    The rules of golf are used by pro's all the time to get them out of situations that you and i could only dream of in our monthly medal. They were told that ALL sand areas on the course were deemed bunkers by local rule, given sheets with it printed on and had it taped to mirrors in the locker room. Other than tattoing it to his forehead what more can they do. How f ucking thick is he

    He grounded his club in a hazard and that is a 2 shot penalty. Any who has a problem with this obviously never plays in competition golf and is probably a muni mong who believes that a mulligan is part of the official game.

    Golf is one of the last games where the rules are not bent, distorted or dodged dependant on the whim of overpaid oiks. They are the integrity of the game and i for one applaud the USPGA for enforcing them regardless of the situation.

    The Krout played some good golf and on the day deserved to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    Dustin Johnson is a prick.

    The rules of golf are used by pro's all the time to get them out of situations that you and i could only dream of in our monthly medal. They were told that ALL sand areas on the course were deemed bunkers by local rule, given sheets with it printed on and had it taped to mirrors in the locker room. Other than tattoing it to his forehead what more can they do. How f ucking thick is he

    He grounded his club in a hazard and that is a 2 shot penalty. Any who has a problem with this obviously never plays in competition golf and is probably a muni mong who believes that a mulligan is part of the official game.

    Golf is one of the last games where the rules are not bent, distorted or dodged dependant on the whim of overpaid oiks. They are the integrity of the game and i for one applaud the USPGA for enforcing them regardless of the situation.

    The Krout played some good golf and on the day deserved to win.

    Edgey
    You obviously don't play much in my part of the world, that sort of stuff is stock in trade for a fair number of golfers at my club, but I get what you are saying and personally agree.
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    I am OK with the bunker rule, but this is a bunch of BS. It does not look like a bunker, it's not a bunker... that sucks.
    On the other hand, I like Bubba and how he behaves/acts on a golf course... He's a real sport who is having fun out there. I am just amazed how far he can hit with his small/thin body

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    I am OK with the bunker rule, but this is a bunch of BS. It does not look like a bunker, it's not a bunker... that sucks.
    On the other hand, I like Bubba and how he behaves/acts on a golf course... He's a real sport who is having fun out there. I am just amazed how far he can hit with his small/thin body
    I just saw the footage on the news and it did look something like that may be construed as a bunker, but with all the fans trampling through it it would have been hard to tell. But as I sad earlier, what was he doing spraying his drive way out there? A champion professional golfer would be able to get one down the middle on that hole, and he didn't really have that much pressure either as he only needed par to win. Any pro golfer worth his salt should be able to control the nerves and hit one straight drive when they really need one. He wasn't being the ball.
    Last edited by Not a hacker; 08-16-2010 at 02:25 AM.
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    I don't have a problem with the rule about grounding the club in a bunker. I can see that someone might get an advantage by testing the sand etc. I think that the rules can take things too far towards the ridiculous though. I couldn't remember the year or tourney, but I saw Davis Love stumble and almost fall, he put his club out instinctively to stop himself from doing a face plant, and was assessed a 2 stroke for grounding his club. Did he really gain any advantage? Does anyone with a brain think he got a feel for the sand and how firm it was playing by stopping himself from doing a header? Are the rules so stodgy that common sense can't be used?

    In the case of Dustin Johnson, he's at fault for not erring on the side of caution. If you don't know, ask. I can also blame the rules official who was walking with the group. From what I'm reading, the officials were with the last 5 groups and instructed to intervene when the golfer might inadvertently commit a foul since the ground rules are unique to that course. Obviously that didn't happen and he didn't do his job either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    You obviously don't play much in my part of the world, that sort of stuff is stock in trade for a fair number of golfers at my club, but I get what you are saying and personally agree.
    You ground a club in a hazard in our Medal and you will get a 2 shot penalty, period!

    The issue here is that Johnson had been told about sand areas on the course multiple times and still grounded his club. It doesnt matter if you agree or disagree, it is the rule and as such cannot be altered, and Johnson new it. The fact that he is as thick as shite and forgot, too bad. It was quite obvious he was hitting a ball in sand, move on.

    Heard no complaints from anyone at our course today when playing the Monday Medal and as such must be an American thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Bullshite . . . . . you Mary.

    All he did was set his club down on the sand. There is no way that should EVER be a penalty.
    There's a rule that your not allowed to build a stance but I watch many tour players dig in address the ball, back out, dig in a second and sometimes a third time in order to get their feet level with the ball in a bunker. They are breaking the spirit of the rule IMO but it's not enforceable because your allow to take a grounded stance. To extract that on to grounding your club and pushing, scraping sand, I could ground the club multiple times creating a deep depression behind the ball and then push enough sand back to improve my lie. I had a fried egg lie this weekend and what your suggesting would have been awesome. In waste areas you could use your backswing to clear debris out of the way. Again, improving your lie.

    I'm not defending the ruling but what if a player earlier in the round could easily recognize that it was a bunker and didn't ground their club. They would basically be playing a different golf course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    I don't have a problem with the rule about grounding the club in a bunker. I can see that someone might get an advantage by testing the sand etc. I think that the rules can take things too far towards the ridiculous though. I couldn't remember the year or tourney, but I saw Davis Love stumble and almost fall, he put his club out instinctively to stop himself from doing a face plant, and was assessed a 2 stroke for grounding his club. Did he really gain any advantage? Does anyone with a brain think he got a feel for the sand and how firm it was playing by stopping himself from doing a header? Are the rules so stodgy that common sense can't be used?

    In the case of Dustin Johnson, he's at fault for not erring on the side of caution. If you don't know, ask. I can also blame the rules official who was walking with the group. From what I'm reading, the officials were with the last 5 groups and instructed to intervene when the golfer might inadvertently commit a foul since the ground rules are unique to that course. Obviously that didn't happen and he didn't do his job either.
    Agree with Mongrel and Yaz. Players are accustomed to calling for a rules official constantly over the slightest of circumstances. And rules officials are everywhere at pro tournaments, particularly at the PGA. There had to have been multiple rules officials within 25 yards of what took place, watching the whole thing without acting.

    It took incredible brain farts by Johnson, his caddy, the rules official(s) responsible for the group, the PGA for allowing traffic in a bunker, etc. for this to have happened. But the ultimate responsibility rests with the player and there was ample evidence of an issue for Johnson to check in with an official. His not doing so, even without the info circulars that were passed out, is tantamount to going brain dead, rushing the shot and, in essence, choking.

    I like the guy, but in this situation he clearly choked.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    The shot was 60 ft into the thick gallery. They quickly circled the ball in a 6-8 ft circle. when he addressed the ball people where lined up on both sides including inside the so called "bunker". The caddie had to tell the photographers to move. What kind of stupid venue would have people in a bunker when a shot was played? He could not even see the extent of the trampled debris filled sand. It's the coarse's fault for not ushering the sheep of the bull@#%t bunker. The coarse covers their a$-$ with the local rules when it was their inability to provide the required services to conduct a major event.He got robbed!!! There is no excuse for having people in a bunker restricting his ability to identify it as a bunker. It originally looked like a hardpan lie to me. Perhaps coarses should have rules as well that shall result in a hefty fine and give a player a stroke reward if they (the coarse) does something as stupid as this!
    We should have a rule about spelling course

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    I don't have a problem with the rule about grounding the club in a bunker. I can see that someone might get an advantage by testing the sand etc. I think that the rules can take things too far towards the ridiculous though. I couldn't remember the year or tourney, but I saw Davis Love stumble and almost fall, he put his club out instinctively to stop himself from doing a face plant, and was assessed a 2 stroke for grounding his club. Did he really gain any advantage? Does anyone with a brain think he got a feel for the sand and how firm it was playing by stopping himself from doing a header? Are the rules so stodgy that common sense can't be used?

    In the case of Dustin Johnson, he's at fault for not erring on the side of caution. If you don't know, ask. I can also blame the rules official who was walking with the group. From what I'm reading, the officials were with the last 5 groups and instructed to intervene when the golfer might inadvertently commit a foul since the ground rules are unique to that course. Obviously that didn't happen and he didn't do his job either.
    I u derstand your point but rules are rules... What happens if a point guard trips takes 3 steps instead of 2? Did he really gain advantage I mean he was falling, traveling still has to be called even though accidents happen... It's just the rules of golf

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    Phuck, all NBAer's take a least three steps.
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    The rule only makes sense if somehow the grounding had improved the lie... it clearly did not. It's too bad the PGA has sunk to the level of the NFL, NBA and even NHL allowing officials to dramatically alter championship results.

    I think Dustin had a bad day and hope he got good and drunk. Leading a major, the announcers were on his case for his non-textbook swing and then he clearly never thought that was a sand hazard. Speaking of non-textbook, the self-taught Bubba is coming around nicely. He's gotta lose that pink shaft... it's gotta be distracting to look down at with a major on the line... that shaft was GLOWING in HD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    The rule only makes sense if somehow the grounding had improved the lie... it clearly did not. It's too bad the PGA has sunk to the level of the NFL, NBA and even NHL allowing officials to dramatically alter championship results.

    I think Dustin had a bad day and hope he got good and drunk. Leading a major, the announcers were on his case for his non-textbook swing and then he clearly never thought that was a sand hazard. Speaking of non-textbook, the self-taught Bubba is coming around nicely. He's gotta lose that pink shaft... it's gotta be distracting to look down at with a major on the line... that shaft was GLOWING in HD.
    Don't know, would he have made as good of a swing if he couldn't have grounded his club? The only thing I heard the announcers rag on DJ was his poor putting. If he would have been putting better over the course of the tournament he would have killed the field.

    The thing that sucks is that if he disagrees and signs his card without the penalty he's DQ'd. I agree with earlier post. Most of these pro's bend the rules to their advantage. I'm sure if there wasn't thousands of people all around him he would have recognized that he was in a bunker but there were enough visible evidence they should have clued in on it; also, they were given specific instructions this might happen and how the they were going to rule. It's always amazing to me how people get right next to the line of play. Like a pro has never shanked a ball. These are probably the same people that go to desert racing an stand 15' from a truck bouncing through the desert and are then surprised when it goes off track and kills many spectators.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    The rule only makes sense if somehow the grounding had improved the lie... it clearly did not. It's too bad the PGA has sunk to the level of the NFL, NBA and even NHL allowing officials to dramatically alter championship results.
    Either you only play hacker golf, or you cant read. The officials didnt alter the result of the USPGA, Dusting Johnson did by failing to properly read the rules, failing to check with his walking rules official if he was in a bunker and then by grounding his club in a hazard.

    The rule doesnt have to make sense, and you dont have to like it, you just have to abide by it. If you dont its a 2 shot penalty. It isnt rocket science.

    Edgey
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    I like the traveling analogy because the NBA hasn't called traveling on a superstar in 20 years. This brings THE question, what if Tiger had grounded the club? Don't be to quick to assume Tiger would get the same ruling...
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    Edgey, I knew you would be a staunch defender of the rulebook. It's all the "rules" that merry old England bound upon the Colonists that made us revolt in the first place.

    I'm not saying everyone should be allowed to BREAK the rules (Kiwi), I'm saying that there are a lot of rules that need to be deleted from the rule book because they are stupid. Since I am towers smarter than the lot of you, we define "stupid" by my determination.

    Look, guys, every year the USGA, or whatever golf police force it is, looks at the rules and more than not, ADDS another rule on (Like are we going to have square grooves or V grooves. Do we leave the driver head at 460cc or make it smaller. Shite like that . . . ) All I'm saying is that they need to seriously take a look at some of these rules, and see how they have played out on the tour, and say to themselves, "You know, we were real poofs whenever we added that rule to the rule book, let's get rid of it."

    The rules committees are too much like congress, they think they have to add rules or laws in order to justify that they have done something while on committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Edgey, I knew you would be a staunch defender of the rulebook. It's all the "rules" that merry old England bound upon the Colonists that made us revolt in the first place.

    I'm not saying everyone should be allowed to BREAK the rules (Kiwi), I'm saying that there are a lot of rules that need to be deleted from the rule book because they are stupid. Since I am towers smarter than the lot of you, we define "stupid" by my determination.

    Look, guys, every year the USGA, or whatever golf police force it is, looks at the rules and more than not, ADDS another rule on (Like are we going to have square grooves or V grooves. Do we leave the driver head at 460cc or make it smaller. Shite like that . . . ) All I'm saying is that they need to seriously take a look at some of these rules, and see how they have played out on the tour, and say to themselves, "You know, we were real poofs whenever we added that rule to the rule book, let's get rid of it."

    The rules committees are too much like congress, they think they have to add rules or laws in order to justify that they have done something while on committee.

    Nice flame Soon, so i will bite

    The rule about not grounding your club in a hazard does not need deleting, it is an excellent rule designed to stop choppers from testing the surface AND improving their lie.

    You had a rant about Johnson and the unfairness of it all. Here is the rub, you are arguing about 2 seperate issues here.

    1. Johnson broke a rule that he had been well advised about i.e. "ALL sanded areas on the course are for the purposes of the USPGA bunkers" He has admitted that he didnt read the rules and as such is a prick and deserves to be sat crying in his beer.

    This is a simple rule infringement and whether you agree with the rule or not is his fault. He is a Pro golfer who didnt read the local rules. In good old England we would call him a KNOB

    2. You think the rule should be altered for the future. Seperate argument from yesterday mate, and i dont agree.

    Problem is mate if you dont play competition golf under the rules of golf they can seem silly. I am assuming that you are a casual player and that is fine. If you are casual only you are not in a position to understand or appreciate about the rules and the integrity of the game.

    As such you are way more stupid than me for the following reasons

    I am English
    I am a better golfer than you
    I play by the rules
    I understand the rules
    I hold a real handicap
    I play in real competitions played under R & A rules
    I am a liberal
    I dont believe in the death penalty
    I dont believe in the private ownership of firearms
    I believe in the right of a woman to choose

    The list is almost endless.............

    Carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    Nice flame Soon, so i will bite

    The rule about not grounding your club in a hazard does not need deleting, it is an excellent rule designed to stop choppers from testing the surface AND improving their lie.

    You had a rant about Johnson and the unfairness of it all. Here is the rub, you are arguing about 2 seperate issues here.

    1. Johnson broke a rule that he had been well advised about i.e. "ALL sanded areas on the course are for the purposes of the USPGA bunkers" He has admitted that he didnt read the rules and as such is a prick and deserves to be sat crying in his beer.

    This is a simple rule infringement and whether you agree with the rule or not is his fault. He is a Pro golfer who didnt read the local rules. In good old England we would call him a KNOB

    2. You think the rule should be altered for the future. Seperate argument from yesterday mate, and i dont agree.

    Problem is mate if you dont play competition golf under the rules of golf they can seem silly. I am assuming that you are a casual player and that is fine. If you are casual only you are not in a position to understand or appreciate about the rules and the integrity of the game.

    As such you are way more stupid than me for the following reasons

    I am English
    I am a better golfer than you
    I play by the rules
    I understand the rules
    I hold a real handicap
    I play in real competitions played under R & A rules
    I am a liberal
    I dont believe in the death penalty
    I dont believe in the private ownership of firearms
    I believe in the right of a woman to choose

    The list is almost endless.............

    Carry on

    Edgey
    Whoa - I guess that's the thread closed then!
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    He has admitted that he didnt read the rules and as such is a prick and deserves to be sat crying in his beer.
    See this is why you're a dick. The only person not crying and whining about it has been Dustin Johnson. So your categorization of him makes you the prick.


    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    This is a simple rule infringement and whether you agree with the rule or not is his fault. He is a Pro golfer who didn't read the local rules. In good old England we would call him a KNOB
    Show me that the English golfers read the rules and you'll have a point. If they donned their tweed jackets and sat in overstuffed chairs earnestly studying the local rules sheet, then I agree. But they didn't and you know it. Which is why in America, we call KNOBS like you a "deluded member of a forgotten nation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    See this is why you're a dick. The only person not crying and whining about it has been Dustin Johnson. So your categorization of him makes you the prick.




    Show me that the English golfers read the rules and you'll have a point. If they donned their tweed jackets and sat in overstuffed chairs earnestly studying the local rules sheet, then I agree. But they didn't and you know it. Which is why in America, we call KNOBS like you a "deluded member of a forgotten nation".
    Another muni hacking, non handicap holding, mulligan taking chopper, yank twat who knows f uck all.

    I read local rules so i dont get 2 shot penaltys for grounding a club in a bunker, shite for brains.

    You can go now, i believe the local Hitler Youth have missed your balanced input.

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    The commentary I'm hearing has universally agreed that either Tiger or Phil would have gotten anything from calculated inaction to a much more generous ruling. Bunkers are not for spectators to stand in... that opens up all kinds of interpretive issues.

    You don't sound liberal if you only think in absolutes. "You're either with us or against us."
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    Edgey, are most English chaps Liberals and oppose gun ownership? If so I see why us Yanks whipped you sissies in red coats. I would like to know what you would think about gun ownershp the next time you get blitzed by the likes of the sourkrauts.
    Last edited by jetdriver; 08-16-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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    Edgey, what is the deal with the uk airline strike? I read today that it should be held up for my departure to london next week, but do you think I will make my September 2nd flight to Scotland (Edinburgh)?

    I would appreciate some local advice. Also, what do you think is better: a plane or train, from London to Edinburgh; we already booked the plane, as the train is more than double the price of the plane; we are willing to pay the cancellation fee of $160 for the airplane, plus and additional $400 for the train, if the train is way better; way to see the countryside etc.

    What say you Edgey? Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    Another muni hacking, non handicap holding, mulligan taking chopper, yank twat who knows f uck all.

    I read local rules so i dont get 2 shot penaltys for grounding a club in a bunker, shite for brains.

    You can go now, i believe the local Hitler Youth have missed your balanced input.

    Edgey
    Another guy who's a big talker from across the pond, because he knows there is no chance in hell he'll have to back up his bull$hit in the real world.

    You massive twat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    Edgey, are most English chaps Liberals and oppose gun ownership? If so I see why us Yanks whipped you sissies in red coats. I would like to know what you would think about gun ownershp the next time you get blitzed by the likes of the sourkrauts.
    Shall we at least try to keep the discussion in this century? Armed military conflict is a different matter altogether from gun control/ownership and so far the Brits have done an admirable job as allies of the US in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    So STFU newbie!
    I chose the road less traveled.

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  61. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Shall we at least try to keep the discussion in this century? Armed military conflict is a different matter altogether from gun control/ownership
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Shall we at least try to keep the discussion in this century? Armed military conflict is a different matter altogether from gun control/ownership and so far the Brits have done an admirable job as allies of the US in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    So STFU newbie!
    I have nothing against Brits especially the brave allied military which are probably not liberals anyway. My point was that a population that is armed is able to discourage or somewhat fend off an invasion military or otherwise of their country or their homes thus providing a first line of protection to their families and loved ones. An armed citizen in say... a restaurant can stop a armed attacker and save many lives. I still say anti gun people are uninformed/untrained sissies though. Guns are a American Freedom thing perhaps you may understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    I have nothing against Brits especially the brave allied military which are probably not liberals anyway. My point was that a population that is armed is able to discourage or somewhat fend off an invasion military or otherwise of their country or their homes thus providing a first line of protection to their families and loved ones. An armed citizen in say... a restaurant can stop a armed attacker and save many lives. I still say anti gun people are uninformed/untrained sissies though. Guns are a American Freedom thing perhaps you may understand.
    As a gun owner, I sometimes am forced to re-think things when I come across the foregoing kind of rubbish. I...hold on.... I think I hear someone trying to break in. Maybe it's a foreign invader.....

    Well, I couldn't see anything, but I thought I heard Arabic, so I fired a couple of shots out the window. Anyways, these delusions and exaggerated self importance dogma is really fascinating to me. I'm willing to admit, I just like toys. I don't need to layer my indulgence with far-fetched b.s.....Hold it, I hear those sounds again......

    This time I grabbed the 12 gauge and fired a couple of rounds into the darkness. I would just love to find a couple of dead Al Qaeda in the yard tomorrow morning. Anyways, I know I make the world a safer place by having my guns and other weapons.....Dammit.... there's that sound again.... I need more ammo.....hang with you guys later if those Al Qaeda guys don't get me.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    Edgey, what is the deal with the uk airline strike? I read today that it should be held up for my departure to london next week, but do you think I will make my September 2nd flight to Scotland (Edinburgh)?

    I would appreciate some local advice. Also, what do you think is better: a plane or train, from London to Edinburgh; we already booked the plane, as the train is more than double the price of the plane; we are willing to pay the cancellation fee of $160 for the airplane, plus and additional $400 for the train, if the train is way better; way to see the countryside etc.

    What say you Edgey? Thanks.
    Its OK Spank, the strike is off. The Union has got an increased pay offer.

    Edgey
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    Edgey, are most English chaps Liberals and oppose gun ownership? If so I see why us Yanks whipped you sissies in red coats. I would like to know what you would think about gun ownershp the next time you get blitzed by the likes of the sourkrauts.
    As a newbie i expect this type of nonsense. Read (unlikely i suspect) your history. The great American victory over us was in no small amount due to susbstantial support from................THE CHEESE EATING SURRENDER MONKEYS ARGHHHHHH!!!!

    So in fact as a nation you are indebted to the French. Wanker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    Another guy who's a big talker from across the pond, because he knows there is no chance in hell he'll have to back up his bull$hit in the real world.

    You massive twat.
    Not just a twat, a MASSIVE twat.

    Why didnt you poke your tongue out as well.

    Weak and pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    Its OK Spank, the strike is off. The Union has got an increased pay offer.

    Edgey
    I know that, thanks. I made a typo in my above post; I should have said that our flight to London would "NOT be held up." My mistake... I was wondering about the September 2 flight to Edinburgh, but now I am thinking a train might be a better way to see/travel the country; we did that in Italy a few years ago...

    What do you think about the train vs. the airplane? London to Edinburgh? You like that idea? It is more than twice the cost...

    Forget the money; I mentioned it does not matter to us; would you take the train or the airplane, or does it not matter; I heard where you live is a sh!thole anyway so I will rent a freaking hot air balloon if needed; working my way to Ireland to visit my ancestors/real men... ;-)

    We are leaning towards canceling the plane and taking the train; forget the strike, that is not an issue for us anymore, and was not when we were making our choice, but the threat of strike had us looking at the train.

    If you don't know, don't worry about it.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by spanqdoggie; 08-16-2010 at 10:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    I have nothing against Brits especially the brave allied military which are probably not liberals anyway. My point was that a population that is armed is able to discourage or somewhat fend off an invasion military or otherwise of their country or their homes thus providing a first line of protection to their families and loved ones. An armed citizen in say... a restaurant can stop a armed attacker and save many lives. I still say anti gun people are uninformed/untrained sissies though. Guns are a American Freedom thing perhaps you may understand.
    I have spent my time carrying a firearm for my country and that is the only time they should be carried (farmers are an exception)

    This specious nonsense that is spouted about the mythical armed citizen saving the diner from an armed nutter makes me laugh becuase it never seems to happen. All i ever see is lots of innocent people being gunned down by heavily armed loons (the list in the US is too long to type but Columbine and Virgina Tech) Where was your imaginary hero then.

    Here is a fact. The average American is far more likely to die by his own gun than he is ever to defend himself with it.

    Edgey
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    I know that, thanks. I made a typo in my above post; I should have said that our flight to London would "NOT be held up." My mistake...

    What do you think about the train vs. the airplane?

    Forget them money; I mentioned it does not matter to us; would you take the train or the airplane?

    We are leaning towards canceling the plane and taking the train; forget the strike, that is not an issue for us anymore, and was not when we were making our choice, but the threat of strike had us looking at the train.

    If you don't know, don't worry about it.

    Thanks.
    Hi Spank

    I flew from London to Edinburgh in June and I would recommend it over the train any day of the week. Apart from the cost it is quicker and much more convenient. Unless you want to see the scenery but I did a lot of train journeys in the UK & Europe in June and they become monotonous. And besides you get a great view flying into Edinburgh if you happen to strike a nice day. So the plane gets my thumbs up EVERYTIME!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Hi Spank

    I flew from London to Edinburgh in June and I would recommend it over the train any day of the week. Apart from the cost it is quicker and much more convenient. Unless you want to see the scenery but I did a lot of train journeys in the UK & Europe in June and they become monotonous. And besides you get a great view flying into Edinburgh if you happen to strike a nice day. So the plane gets my thumbs up EVERYTIME!
    This is VERY helpful Kiwi!

    Thank you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    I have nothing against Brits especially the brave allied military which are probably not liberals anyway. My point was that a population that is armed is able to discourage or somewhat fend off an invasion military or otherwise of their country or their homes thus providing a first line of protection to their families and loved ones. An armed citizen in say... a restaurant can stop a armed attacker and save many lives. I still say anti gun people are uninformed/untrained sissies though. Guns are a American Freedom thing perhaps you may understand.
    Yeah you're absolutely right. These days it's the Muslims you need to protect yourself against but back in the 1950's and 1960's during the Cold War it was the Red's Under the Bed that we needed to protect ourselves from. In fact I'm sure it was only the armed American civilians that stopped the Soviet tanks from rolling into Alaska in the 1960's. It was probably Sarah Palin's Dad with his trusty winchester rifle trained on the horizon from his front porch that deterred the Soviets.
    Last edited by Kiwi Player; 08-17-2010 at 12:45 AM.
    I chose the road less traveled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    This is VERY helpful Kiwi!

    Thank you!
    If you want to see some nice scenery the train trip from Edinburgh to St Andrews and The Old Course is very nice. You probably don't have time to play and your wife is not interested in golf but the town of St Andrews itself was quite nice to visit and seeing The Old Course is an added bonus.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    If you want to see some nice scenery the train trip from Edinburgh to St Andrews and The Old Course is very nice. You probably don't have time to play and your wife is not interested in golf but the town of St Andrews itself was quite nice to visit and seeing The Old Course is an added bonus.
    We are doing St. Andrews. There is no tour on the day we arrive, so we are hoping to walk around a bit. We are taking that train from Edinburgh to St. Andrews. ;-)
    It's not my fault God made me this beautiful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    We are doing St. Andrews. There is no tour on the day we arrive, so we are hoping to walk around a bit. We are taking that train from Edinburgh to St. Andrews. ;-)
    Sweet! It's a nice trip. About as long as the flight from London, which is long enough.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer
    I see a thousand word essay from one Dave Perkins in our future.
    Home-Slicetradamus
    If that's what you want, the archives will provide it. :-) I have nothing further to say on this topic. My editor is assembling my previous posts into a non-fiction future best-seller.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey

    This specious nonsense that is spouted about the mythical armed citizen saving the diner from an armed nutter makes me laugh becuase it never seems to happen. All i ever see is lots of innocent people being gunned down by heavily armed loons (the list in the US is too long to type but Columbine and Virgina Tech) Where was your imaginary hero then.

    Here is a fact. The average American is far more likely to die by his own gun than he is ever to defend himself with it.

    Edgey
    Defense of self, family and others with firearms happens every day in America. "It never seems to happen" means "I never see it reported in the news", which is true for you Brits, because it never gets past the local news page of a local newspaper in Louisiana or Wyoming. That's if it even gets INTO the paper. The news business hates to report on successful self-defense with guns. But it happens every day. COlumbine? No guns allowed on a high school campus. Virginia Tech? No guns allowed on a college campus. "where is your mythical hero?" He is disarmed by narrow-minded public policy and law preventing him from being ready for such criminals. there is a REASON such criminals choose school campus or other such facilities-- IT IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE WILL NOT BE ANY ARMED OPPOSITION.

    Even Hasan took his pistol into a meeting hall on an army base KNOWING the soldiers at Ft. Hood are NOT permitted to walk around armed!

    It's easy to mouth off about how people carrying guns are dangerous. But nobody has any idea how much less dangerous it might be if more people carried them and more people KNEW it. The mass killers are ALWAYS trying to find crowds of UNARMED people to shoot.

    and BTW The statistic that says gun owners are more likely to die from their own guns than defend themselves with them has been shown to be entirely manufactured by anti-gun advocates and has no basis in fact. It comes from the 1970s. There have been MILLIONS of successful self-defenses with firearms, the large majority of which do not even see the weapon fired. Brandishing is often good enough. There's a new one in a local paper somewhere in America every single day, a report of somebody kicking in a front door of a home and being chased off with a pistol, or being shot while attacking some child, or of a shop attendant shooting an armed robber and the others flee the shop, the permutations are endless.

    But you are entirely wrong. It is safer, statistically, to be armed. It would be safer for crowds if at least some of the GOOD people were armed, instead of them all being sitting ducks by public policy or law.

    The state of Arizona now has a law saying that the Second Amendment is good enough, that no federal government permit is required, that every citizen actually does have a Constitutional right to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise.

    I predict the person-on-person crime rate in Arizona, stratospherically high because of illegal alien crime there, will soon take a plunge, because word will quickly get around that all the 'victims' are now likely to be armed.

    If they have any sense, they will be.
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    Spanq - I spend my working life in Edinburgh but for a few days per month where I need to make the journey South of the border. I would fly since there really is nothing to see until you get about 60-70 miles South of Edinburgh heading North.

    I would recommend hiring a car, and driving the miles I have just described. Golf and scenery on the South East Coast of Scotland is something to behold indeed.

    Edgey - God Save the Queen my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveperkins
    Defense of self, family and others with firearms happens every day in America. "It never seems to happen" means "I never see it reported in the news", which is true for you Brits, because it never gets past the local news page of a local newspaper in Louisiana or Wyoming. That's if it even gets INTO the paper. The news business hates to report on successful self-defense with guns. But it happens every day. COlumbine? No guns allowed on a high school campus. Virginia Tech? No guns allowed on a college campus. "where is your mythical hero?" He is disarmed by narrow-minded public policy and law preventing him from being ready for such criminals. there is a REASON such criminals choose school campus or other such facilities-- IT IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE WILL NOT BE ANY ARMED OPPOSITION.

    Even Hasan took his pistol into a meeting hall on an army base KNOWING the soldiers at Ft. Hood are NOT permitted to walk around armed!

    It's easy to mouth off about how people carrying guns are dangerous. But nobody has any idea how much less dangerous it might be if more people carried them and more people KNEW it. The mass killers are ALWAYS trying to find crowds of UNARMED people to shoot.

    and BTW The statistic that says gun owners are more likely to die from their own guns than defend themselves with them has been shown to be entirely manufactured by anti-gun advocates and has no basis in fact. It comes from the 1970s. There have been MILLIONS of successful self-defenses with firearms, the large majority of which do not even see the weapon fired. Brandishing is often good enough. There's a new one in a local paper somewhere in America every single day, a report of somebody kicking in a front door of a home and being chased off with a pistol, or being shot while attacking some child, or of a shop attendant shooting an armed robber and the others flee the shop, the permutations are endless.

    But you are entirely wrong. It is safer, statistically, to be armed. It would be safer for crowds if at least some of the GOOD people were armed, instead of them all being sitting ducks by public policy or law.

    The state of Arizona now has a law saying that the Second Amendment is good enough, that no federal government permit is required, that every citizen actually does have a Constitutional right to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise.

    I predict the person-on-person crime rate in Arizona, stratospherically high because of illegal alien crime there, will soon take a plunge, because word will quickly get around that all the 'victims' are now likely to be armed.

    If they have any sense, they will be.
    How did you get Dave's login Larry?
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    I should add, if by chance you do get the chance to get the clubs out - North Berwick will avoid tourists, and is one of the finest Golf Courses in the country.

    www.northberwickgolfclub.com

    Enjoy the trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    How did you get Dave's login Larry?
    Larry can't hold a CANDLE to me in compelling, coherent rational discourse. :-))))
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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    We are doing St. Andrews. There is no tour on the day we arrive, so we are hoping to walk around a bit. We are taking that train from Edinburgh to St. Andrews. ;-)
    I drove a rent (hire) car from Glasgow all the way to St. Andrews, wife on board complaining about my driving the whole way, wrong side of the road, narrow lanes, bloody frightening.

    Didn't get to play but walked part of it. See avatar. Unforgettable. Highly recommended for all yank golfers. and by yank I don't mean a pulled short putt.. I mean yankee doodle dandy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    How did you get Dave's login Larry?
    The similarities are remarkable, aren't they? I prefer it when alter-egos take on at least a slightly different personality and thought pattern.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    The similarities are remarkable, aren't they? I prefer it when alter-egos take on at least a slightly different personality and thought pattern.
    It's kinda spooky. Personally I hope it is the same person, as the thought of more than one person sharing these ideologies is a bit scary
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    It's kinda spooky. Personally I hope it is the same person, as the thought of more than one person sharing these ideologies is a bit scary
    It isn't an ideology, it's gospel.

    All Dave has to do is dis. Alan once and I think he'd have a friend for life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveperkins
    Defense of self, family and others with firearms happens every day in America. "It never seems to happen" means "I never see it reported in the news", which is true for you Brits, because it never gets past the local news page of a local newspaper in Louisiana or Wyoming. That's if it even gets INTO the paper. The news business hates to report on successful self-defense with guns. But it happens every day. COlumbine? No guns allowed on a high school campus. Virginia Tech? No guns allowed on a college campus. "where is your mythical hero?" He is disarmed by narrow-minded public policy and law preventing him from being ready for such criminals. there is a REASON such criminals choose school campus or other such facilities-- IT IS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE WILL NOT BE ANY ARMED OPPOSITION.

    Even Hasan took his pistol into a meeting hall on an army base KNOWING the soldiers at Ft. Hood are NOT permitted to walk around armed!

    It's easy to mouth off about how people carrying guns are dangerous. But nobody has any idea how much less dangerous it might be if more people carried them and more people KNEW it. The mass killers are ALWAYS trying to find crowds of UNARMED people to shoot.

    and BTW The statistic that says gun owners are more likely to die from their own guns than defend themselves with them has been shown to be entirely manufactured by anti-gun advocates and has no basis in fact. It comes from the 1970s. There have been MILLIONS of successful self-defenses with firearms, the large majority of which do not even see the weapon fired. Brandishing is often good enough. There's a new one in a local paper somewhere in America every single day, a report of somebody kicking in a front door of a home and being chased off with a pistol, or being shot while attacking some child, or of a shop attendant shooting an armed robber and the others flee the shop, the permutations are endless.

    But you are entirely wrong. It is safer, statistically, to be armed. It would be safer for crowds if at least some of the GOOD people were armed, instead of them all being sitting ducks by public policy or law.

    The state of Arizona now has a law saying that the Second Amendment is good enough, that no federal government permit is required, that every citizen actually does have a Constitutional right to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise.

    I predict the person-on-person crime rate in Arizona, stratospherically high because of illegal alien crime there, will soon take a plunge, because word will quickly get around that all the 'victims' are now likely to be armed.

    If they have any sense, they will be.
    My thoughts exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    It's kinda spooky. Personally I hope it is the same person, as the thought of more than one person sharing these ideologies is a bit scary
    (zombie voice) I am larry... I hate Alan.... I have a single digit handicap.... I have disdain for the inferior intellects populating GR... I hit shovels but talk like I hit blades.... I am larry...
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    As a gun owner, I sometimes am forced to re-think things when I come across the foregoing kind of rubbish. I...hold on.... I think I hear someone trying to break in. Maybe it's a foreign invader.....

    Well, I couldn't see anything, but I thought I heard Arabic, so I fired a couple of shots out the window. Anyways, these delusions and exaggerated self importance dogma is really fascinating to me. I'm willing to admit, I just like toys. I don't need to layer my indulgence with far-fetched b.s.....Hold it, I hear those sounds again......

    This time I grabbed the 12 gauge and fired a couple of rounds into the darkness. I would just love to find a couple of dead Al Qaeda in the yard tomorrow morning. Anyways, I know I make the world a safer place by having my guns and other weapons.....Dammit.... there's that sound again.... I need more ammo.....hang with you guys later if those Al Qaeda guys don't get me.
    Responsible gun owners are just the opposite of what you have described. You appear to treat your gun ownership like a hacker treats his shovels...as a decoration in his office. If that is your thing thats cool too, but I have never met a proficient/trained gun owner that has a sissey anti self defense attitude. By the way there is no such thing as a warning shot in a gunfight, and you never shoot what you can't clearly identify as an imminent threat.It's in the "Dont get your a$-$ killed, and stay out of jail constitution".
    Last edited by jetdriver; 08-17-2010 at 08:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    Yeah you're absolutely right. These days it's the Muslims you need to protect yourself against but back in the 1950's and 1960's during the Cold War it was the Red's Under the Bed that we needed to protect ourselves from. In fact I'm sure it was only the armed American civilians that stopped the Soviet tanks from rolling into Alaska in the 1960's. It was probably Sarah Palin's Dad with his trusty winchester rifle trained on the horizon from his front porch that deterred the Soviets.
    You forget that Sara Palin was the Commander in Chief of the Alaska National guard. I would say that she is scratch in "kick your assness".
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lm0159
    Spanq - I spend my working life in Edinburgh but for a few days per month where I need to make the journey South of the border. I would fly since there really is nothing to see until you get about 60-70 miles South of Edinburgh heading North.

    I would recommend hiring a car, and driving the miles I have just described. Golf and scenery on the South East Coast of Scotland is something to behold indeed.

    Edgey - God Save the Queen my friend.
    Gentlemen, THE QUEEN!

    Edgey
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    Tiger and Phil would have never been assessed a penalty not because of who they are, but because they know the rules. When was the last time either one of them were hit with a penalty for something stupid?

    Hell, Tiger got out of a penalty for hitting a ball on a roof not because of who he is, but because of a loophole in the rules where common sense kept the area from being marked out of bounds. He even thought it was OB, but when it's not marked OB, and there's no local rule saying it's OB.. Well then it must not be OB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spanqdoggie
    I know that, thanks. I made a typo in my above post; I should have said that our flight to London would "NOT be held up." My mistake... I was wondering about the September 2 flight to Edinburgh, but now I am thinking a train might be a better way to see/travel the country; we did that in Italy a few years ago...

    What do you think about the train vs. the airplane? London to Edinburgh? You like that idea? It is more than twice the cost...

    Forget the money; I mentioned it does not matter to us; would you take the train or the airplane, or does it not matter; I heard where you live is a sh!thole anyway so I will rent a freaking hot air balloon if needed; working my way to Ireland to visit my ancestors/real men... ;-)

    We are leaning towards canceling the plane and taking the train; forget the strike, that is not an issue for us anymore, and was not when we were making our choice, but the threat of strike had us looking at the train.

    If you don't know, don't worry about it.

    Thanks.
    Hi

    I would take the train old pal. Jockland has some great views and the train is a great way to see them.

    Try not to miss the Old Course, it may have produced the most boring Majoe ever, but it is a great piece of land (and great to play, if you can)

    Edgey

    PS If you are in England at any point and get to the Midlands i will happily take you around my home course
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    You forget that Sara Palin was the Commander in Chief of the Alaska National guard. I would say that she is scratch in "kick your assness".
    So THAT'S how she developed her excellent knowledge on Russian foreign policy which helped her and McCain "kick ass" in the 2008 election. Oh, wait a minute. No they didn't.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mward2002
    Tiger and Phil would have never been assessed a penalty not because of who they are, but because they know the rules. When was the last time either one of them were hit with a penalty for something stupid?

    Hell, Tiger got out of a penalty for hitting a ball on a roof not because of who he is, but because of a loophole in the rules where common sense kept the area from being marked out of bounds. He even thought it was OB, but when it's not marked OB, and there's no local rule saying it's OB.. Well then it must not be OB.
    I saw that as it happened live and it was a classic example of the Tiger ass kissing which I hope is a thing of the past. Hell they couldn't even find his ball but he wasn't penalized and got to hit from a cosy little drop zone near the green. That was pure BS of the highest order!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    So THAT'S how she developed her excellent knowledge on Russian foreign policy which helped her and McCain "kick ass" in the 2008 election. Oh, wait a minute. No they didn't.
    I will give you that one..McCain was a dud. The leftist hosebags running his campaign were a disgrace no doubt.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPS
    The rule only makes sense if somehow the grounding had improved the lie... it clearly did not. It's too bad the PGA has sunk to the level of the NFL, NBA and even NHL allowing officials to dramatically alter championship results.

    I think Dustin had a bad day and hope he got good and drunk. Leading a major, the announcers were on his case for his non-textbook swing and then he clearly never thought that was a sand hazard. Speaking of non-textbook, the self-taught Bubba is coming around nicely. He's gotta lose that pink shaft... it's gotta be distracting to look down at with a major on the line... that shaft was GLOWING in HD.
    I have to point out that the no-grounding rule is not to prevent improvement of lie but to prevent player from getting a FEEL for the ground/sand etc.
    Cleveland long clubs
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    Responsible gun owners are just the opposite of what you have described. You appear to treat your gun ownership like a hacker treats his shovels...as a decoration in his office. If that is your thing thats cool too, but I have never met a proficient/trained gun owner that has a sissey anti self defense attitude. By the way there is no such thing as a warning shot in a gunfight, and you never shoot what you can't clearly identify as an imminent threat.It's in the "Dont get your a$-$ killed, and stay out of jail constitution".
    You find this kind of pre-scripted black and white lamebrain dogma whenever dealing with the gun fanatics. No sense of humor, no ability to really think only cut and paste what other morons have already said. A good percentage of the people I've been around that have guns are responsible, a good percentage are yayhoos.
    GR lives...

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    My thoughts exactly!
    i.e..........
    GR lives...

  98. #98
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    I'll just throw in the old adage, guns don't kill people, people kill people. If all the guns in the world were gone in the blink of an eye do you think total peace will ensue? Hell no. Knives, spears, baseball bats, ice picks, nitting needles and just about anything that can be used as a weapon will be used as a weapon. Like a lock. They are only there to keep honest people honest. If people want to commit mayhem they will do it regardless of the law and with any tool available.
    Bridgestone J38 10.5, Srixon 2,3,4 hybrids. Snake Eyes Viper Tour
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    Bettinardi sb-5+ putter.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgey
    As a newbie i expect this type of nonsense. Read (unlikely i suspect) your history. The great American victory over us was in no small amount due to susbstantial support from................THE CHEESE EATING SURRENDER MONKEYS ARGHHHHHH!!!!

    So in fact as a nation you are indebted to the French. Wanker

    Edgey
    French resistance more than makes up for vichy regime... Courage, commitment.. Vives les singes du fromage... Homer simpson was wrong, about the surrender anyway... The cheese, yeah, give homey his props...
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by lm0159
    I should add, if by chance you do get the chance to get the clubs out - North Berwick will avoid tourists, and is one of the finest Golf Courses in the country.

    www.northberwickgolfclub.com

    Enjoy the trip.
    Thanks a bunch dude. I don't think I can get there. I am not sure how to explain it; this trip is not a week chilling in Hawaii or a couple of days in Napa; we are not vacationing but traveling non stop like hamsters on a huge site seeing trip across the whole U.K.

    We will probably need a week in Hawaii after this trip to rest, ha ha!

    I cannot wait until I walk into a real British pub and announce that I am Irish and can "kick all you billy no mate, bint ass pikey piss-artist plonkers asses!!!

    That will be good fun, you British bastards
    It's not my fault God made me this beautiful.

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