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  1. #1
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    Bounce and wedges?

    Is more bounce a good thing, or bad. I suppose it depends on what the balls sitting in, or on. I noticed my latest wedges, CG12s, black pearl 50 deg have 10 deg bounce, and the 58 has 12 bounce. I think the ping becus had similar bounce, which I liked. I have a mpr mizuno 60 deg, and I consistently got under it often in thick rough, seems it has very little bounce, I think 5 deg. Whats the thinking on this?
    Tm R9 420cc 9.5 Motore Tm R9 3 wood rip phenom, Titleist 909h 19* 24* voodoo, Scratch EZ-1 ds i80,steelfiber 3 or 4. 5-9 KBS, ds 47* jlm, pdg 53* ds 60* Odyssey Black 2 ball tour blade 33.5" Lethal

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    Is more bounce a good thing, or bad. I suppose it depends on what the balls sitting in, or on. I noticed my latest wedges, CG12s, black pearl 50 deg have 10 deg bounce, and the 58 has 12 bounce. I think the ping becus had similar bounce, which I liked. I have a mpr mizuno 60 deg, and I consistently got under it often in thick rough, seems it has very little bounce, I think 5 deg. Whats the thinking on this?
    nah... we would not be able to tell the difference between 5-12 deg anyway.. all we have to do is change the way we hold a club then the angle will change... Draw a picture and see it yourself, it's just a simple geometry ... all about marketing IMO

  3. #3
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    Higher bounce for thick lies, soft bunkers, soft lies.

    Lower bounce for tight fairway lies and firm packed bunkers.

    I carry a 52 that has 10 degrees, 56 that has 14 degrees of bounce, and a 60 that has 4. They each serve a specific practical purpose.

    It's not even remotely a marketing gimmick.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    nah... we would not be able to tell the difference between 5-12 deg anyway.. all we have to do is change the way we hold a club then the angle will change... Draw a picture and see it yourself, it's just a simple geometry ... all about marketing IMO
    Other wise your delofting the club, thus changing your 60 into a 52. I hold my irons pretty much the same angle, just more forward in my stance for long irons, and back more on the shorter. Geometry is one of my stronger subjects, as I am a lowly mechanic at heart, that works with alignment computers, for the auto and truck industry. Now one of my golfing buddys, who uses his 60 exclusively around greens, does the same thing and seriously delofts his club for chipping, and literally does it on all his iron shots as well, and cant hit a high shot to a uphill green, to save his life, especially on a downhill lie, to a uphill green.
    Tm R9 420cc 9.5 Motore Tm R9 3 wood rip phenom, Titleist 909h 19* 24* voodoo, Scratch EZ-1 ds i80,steelfiber 3 or 4. 5-9 KBS, ds 47* jlm, pdg 53* ds 60* Odyssey Black 2 ball tour blade 33.5" Lethal

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    Higher bounce for thick lies, soft bunkers, soft lies.

    Lower bounce for tight fairway lies and firm packed bunkers.

    I carry a 52 that has 10 degrees, 56 that has 14 degrees of bounce, and a 60 that has 4. They each serve a specific practical purpose.

    It's not even remotely a marketing gimmick.
    For the tour Pros I agree that it's not entirely a marketing gimmick, but for weekend players it's a different story. Just to prove the point: my now-retired technician was playing on a mini-tour and his cap was about 0-1.0, one day he went out with me with his only 5i and putter and he was able to score 85, it was due to his lack of distance because he used only a 5i, but he proved that he still could chip and pitch with his 5i ...(the point is that the bounce does not mean a whole lot to him)... Most of weekend players play like shìììtttt (not you) and he/she worries about (G) (F) (F)yourself or bounces or blades etc....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975
    Higher bounce for thick lies, soft bunkers, soft lies.

    Lower bounce for tight fairway lies and firm packed bunkers.

    I carry a 52 that has 10 degrees, 56 that has 14 degrees of bounce, and a 60 that has 4. They each serve a specific practical purpose.

    It's not even remotely a marketing gimmick.
    That was my setup too although my 60 had even less bounce at 3*. I've dropped the 60 from the bag and now carry a 56/10. I find that 8-10* of bounce is the most versatile. I get a lot of deadpan tight lies on my golf course at the height of summer and 14* bounce made the 56* almost unplayable. It was also hopeless as a sand wedge out of tightly packed wet sand after prolonged periods of rain.

    Too little bounce on the other hand can cause the club to dig in too much in soft, wet conditions or slide right under the ball in thick lies with the 60/3.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471
    For the tour Pros I agree that it's not entirely a marketing gimmick, but for weekend players it's a different story. Just to prove the point: my now-retired technician was playing on a mini-tour and his cap was about 0-1.0, one day he went out with me with his only 5i and putter and he was able to score 85, it was due to his lack of distance because he used only a 5i, but he proved that he still could chip and pitch with his 5i ...(the point is that the bounce does not mean a whole lot to him)... Most of weekend players play like shìììtttt (not you) and he/she worries about (G) (F) (F)yourself or bounces or blades etc....
    If you think that you need to learn to use your bounce, especially on chips around the green not to mention the bunker. I get your point though. If you suck, the amount of bounce isn't going to help you.

    Your little antidote of the 5i round doesn't really apply 'cuase a 5 iron doesn't really have any bounce to speak of and your not exactly chipping with a 5 iron the way you would with a wedge. Go have an old club ground to no bounce and see how easy it is to hit a flop or a chunk and run with it. Especially on wet thick grass.

    I have a high bounce wedge I use in the winter and I've tried to use it on dry tight courses. Miss a chip by a small fraction with this wedge and it's a skull.

  8. #8
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    I dropped the 60* high bounce Cleaveland CG10 long ago. While it was fun to screw around with, it was useless unless the ball was sitting on fluffy grass. Sure you could "debounce it" but then you have your 56* for that already... whats the point in doing that?
    I am thinking of swapping out my 52* and 56* Cleaveland 900's for my BH Carnustie 56* and 60* since I have put a razor edge bounce 50* Apex II hogan equalizer in my bag that has a built in gps system and feels like a buttered bolt of grease seasoned lightening.
    Last edited by jetdriver; 02-12-2011 at 02:33 PM.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player
    That was my setup too although my 60 had even less bounce at 3*. I've dropped the 60 from the bag and now carry a 56/10. I find that 8-10* of bounce is the most versatile. I get a lot of deadpan tight lies on my golf course at the height of summer and 14* bounce made the 56* almost unplayable. It was also hopeless as a sand wedge out of tightly packed wet sand after prolonged periods of rain.

    Too little bounce on the other hand can cause the club to dig in too much in soft, wet conditions or slide right under the ball in thick lies with the 60/3.
    I agree that bagging a 56/10 is probably the most versatile possible combo for a wedge. I have a Vokey with that config and I see the appeal.

  10. #10
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    I have been experimenting with my two bagged wedges for a couple of weeks. Mostly indoors on the carpet on the basement floor and have learned a bit about bounce that I hadn't realized for all the years I've been playing. Typically I hit my irons on full shots, pitches and chips with my hands well in front of the ball and come into the ball first driving it into the ground. I've found that if I back off on that just a bit that the bounce of the sole will cause the ball to rise higher and softer. The greater the bounce, the greater the effect. This may not seem like a big deal to all you who are familiar with it but it is a minor revelation to me and may improve my sucky sand play. I was always scared to use a big bounce wedge off a tight lie for fear of the deadly skull but now I know how to hit that clean by coming into the ball a bit steeper and harder with the meatiest part of the sole, the bounce point, directly under the ball.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel
    I have been experimenting with my two bagged wedges for a couple of weeks. Mostly indoors on the carpet on the basement floor and have learned a bit about bounce that I hadn't realized for all the years I've been playing. Typically I hit my irons on full shots, pitches and chips with my hands well in front of the ball and come into the ball first driving it into the ground. I've found that if I back off on that just a bit that the bounce of the sole will cause the ball to rise higher and softer. The greater the bounce, the greater the effect. This may not seem like a big deal to all you who are familiar with it but it is a minor revelation to me and may improve my sucky sand play. I was always scared to use a big bounce wedge off a tight lie for fear of the deadly skull but now I know how to hit that clean by coming into the ball a bit steeper and harder with the meatiest part of the sole, the bounce point, directly under the ball.
    I would like to hear how that compares when you get outside to real grass since you have been practicing on carpet. I am sure the idea should be the same however I have "figured things out" on the mat that proved a bit different on the turf.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel
    I have been experimenting with my two bagged wedges for a couple of weeks. Mostly indoors on the carpet on the basement floor and have learned a bit about bounce that I hadn't realized for all the years I've been playing. Typically I hit my irons on full shots, pitches and chips with my hands well in front of the ball and come into the ball first driving it into the ground. I've found that if I back off on that just a bit that the bounce of the sole will cause the ball to rise higher and softer. The greater the bounce, the greater the effect. This may not seem like a big deal to all you who are familiar with it but it is a minor revelation to me and may improve my sucky sand play. I was always scared to use a big bounce wedge off a tight lie for fear of the deadly skull but now I know how to hit that clean by coming into the ball a bit steeper and harder with the meatiest part of the sole, the bounce point, directly under the ball.
    The easiest way to avoid the skull is to set the wrists on the backswing, then keep them locked in that position into the through swing, using the turng body to move the club. This results in the hands leading the clubhead through impact with no movement in the wrists, which leads to consistent pitches. To change trajectory just move the ball position (more forward to hit it higher) and open or close the clubface. I learnt this from a youtube lesson by Kip Puterbaugh. It was a life changing moment as my chipping and pitching has aways been hit and miss, but since doing it I've hit pitches solid every time. I'm still getting used to judging distance wth the new setup (the clean contact has led to me hitting it past the hole all the time), but consistent contact on pitches is now the easiest thing to do consistently in my game, instead of the hardest. Check this out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_l1W3hRIM0
    Last edited by Not a hacker; 02-12-2011 at 11:52 PM.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    The easiest way to avoid the skull is to set the wrists on the backswing, then keep them locked in that position into the through swing, using the turng body to move the club. This results in the hands leading the clubhead through impact with no movement in the wrists, which leads to consistent pitches. To change trajectory just move the ball position (more forward to hit it higher) and open or close the clubface. I learnt this from a youtube lesson by Kip Puterbaugh. It was a life changing moment as my chipping and pitching has aways been hit and miss, but since doing it I've hit pitches solid every time. I'm still getting used to judging distance wth the new setup (the clean contact has led to me hitting it past the hole all the time), but consistent contact on pitches is now the easiest thing to do consistently in my game, instead of the hardest. Check this out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_l1W3hRIM0
    That's a good concise lesson. I have changed my pitching swing to about what he does on the tape, My problem with pitches and chips has been leaving them short which almost aways adds a stroke to the hole. So I've been practising with using different irons for the chips and pitches all the way down to my 3 iron. I'm also trying to keep forward shaft lean and address and impact--more than Kip does on the tape--and will play shots with an open face, sometimes way open, to get more height and stoppage. We'll see how it works this coming season. I'm currently a 15.9 index 'capper and figure I urinate away 8-10 strokes per round with defective around-the-green shots and am determined to tighten that up quite a bit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    The easiest way to avoid the skull is to set the wrists on the backswing, then keep them locked in that position into the through swing, using the turng body to move the club. This results in the hands leading the clubhead through impact with no movement in the wrists, which leads to consistent pitches. To change trajectory just move the ball position (more forward to hit it higher) and open or close the clubface. I learnt this from a youtube lesson by Kip Puterbaugh. It was a life changing moment as my chipping and pitching has aways been hit and miss, but since doing it I've hit pitches solid every time. I'm still getting used to judging distance wth the new setup (the clean contact has led to me hitting it past the hole all the time), but consistent contact on pitches is now the easiest thing to do consistently in my game, instead of the hardest. Check this out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_l1W3hRIM0
    Turn and point as my instructor used to say. Stricker is probably the best at this no load golf swing. I find that if I practice this move a couple hundred times in a week my ball striking also gets better on full swings.

    You might also not that he hinges his left arm at the shoulder different on the high shot than the lower shot. He's holding off the release a bit to get the ball to fly higher.

  15. #15
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    Turning is the key for me to not skulling/or chunking the pitch. I used to have these issues until I started turning more horizontally and less upright. It was the big reveletion that gave me a repeatable swing. This may not be so for taller guys but it was the key for me.
    On short chips it is important to keep the sternum (and thus the bottom of the swing) ahead of the ball as per butch harmon. I found this useful around the greens to keep from chunking short chips.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdriver
    Turning is the key for me to not skulling/or chunking the pitch. I used to have these issues until I started turning more horizontally and less upright. It was the big reveletion that gave me a repeatable swing. This may not be so for taller guys but it was the key for me.
    On short chips it is important to keep the sternum (and thus the bottom of the swing) ahead of the ball as per butch harmon. I found this useful around the greens to keep from chunking short chips.
    Or, you could simply buy a Niblick and hit however you want and not worry about chunking . . . .
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS
    Or, you could simply buy a Niblick and hit however you want and not worry about chunking . . . .
    A niblick is always a good choice! I have a couple in the garage.
    The name itself is cool, brings on images of nibbling on some scottish ho's laced tittie.
    Last edited by jetdriver; 02-13-2011 at 01:07 PM.
    ... a tree branch, or my foot.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul
    Turn and point as my instructor used to say. Stricker is probably the best at this no load golf swing. I find that if I practice this move a couple hundred times in a week my ball striking also gets better on full swings.

    You might also not that he hinges his left arm at the shoulder different on the high shot than the lower shot. He's holding off the release a bit to get the ball to fly higher.
    I think Peter Fowler, an Aussie pro reputed to have the best short game in the business (chipping and pitching, not putting) seems to use a similar type of stroke.

    I didn't notice the different hinging in the high shots. Will have to look at the clip again.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12sandwich
    Other wise your delofting the club, thus changing your 60 into a 52. I hold my irons pretty much the same angle, just more forward in my stance for long irons, and back more on the shorter. Geometry is one of my stronger subjects, as I am a lowly mechanic at heart, that works with alignment computers, for the auto and truck industry. Now one of my golfing buddys, who uses his 60 exclusively around greens, does the same thing and seriously delofts his club for chipping, and literally does it on all his iron shots as well, and cant hit a high shot to a uphill green, to save his life, especially on a downhill lie, to a uphill green.
    I hear you....I hate to say it but there is NO WAY one could hold a clubs the same angle EVERYTIME... close but not the same and it does not take much to move from 5 to 10 degree... If you know JMP software then you know what I am talking about

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