Hole in one fiacso

[divotman]

I recently played in a tournament where a hole-in-one prize was $10,000. Sure enough, one guy in the field of 77 players got a hole-in-one on that hole. The tournament organizers had purchased insurance from a reputable company. There were plenty of witnesses --3 spotters in addition to the 3 in his foursome. This was the only par 3 with the $10,000 prize. The other par 3's had different prizes.

Here's the catch: The contract with the Insurance Co. states the hole must be at least 165 yds. For reasons unknown, the course had the tees moved forward and the flag in the front of the green making the hole only 138 yds. So the question is, should the guy who made the hole in one get his money? He had no control over the tee-box of flag placement, and he still made an improbable ace. Are the tournament organizers liable for the $10,000?

Anyone seen this happen before?

[Pky6471]

the course must pay the prize... or my lawyer son will talk to them... period

[oldplayer]

Unless there were suitable dissclaimers on the conditions of winning the prize that were made known to the players then the prize has to be paid.

[famousdavis]

I recently played in a tournament where a hole-in-one prize was $10,000. Sure enough, one guy in the field of 77 players got a hole-in-one on that hole. The tournament organizers had purchased insurance from a reputable company. There were plenty of witnesses --3 spotters in addition to the 3 in his foursome. This was the only par 3 with the $10,000 prize. The other par 3's had different prizes.

Here's the catch: The contract with the Insurance Co. states the hole must be at least 165 yds. For reasons unknown, the course had the tees moved forward and the flag in the front of the green making the hole only 138 yds. So the question is, should the guy who made the hole in one get his money? He had no control over the tee-box of flag placement, and he still made an improbable ace. Are the tournament organizers liable for the $10,000?

Anyone seen this happen before?

If you took the company that owns the course to court you'd win. You could probably call the local newspaper and they'd jump at the chance to put it in the paper about a course not paying up.

[SoonerBS]

Yes, the course should pay, they are liable for the money whether the insurance pays or not. If it were me though, I would probably make a deal with them for lifetime golfing privileges in exchange for allowing them to slide by on the money deal. I would think they would probably jump at a deal like that and I would be satisfied with the golfing privileges.

[spanqdoggie]

Here in San Francisco the max for a small claims lawsuit is $7500.

Not sure what the laws are in your State, but I would file a small claims lawsuit to the maximum... Is he in Hawaii? Don't know the max...

He should file a small claims lawsuit against the club, and I bet you that judge might be a golfer; but will most likely favor that guy who got the hole in one... only costs around, what, $40 bucks to file the suit with no lawyers sucking off your winnings...

Small claims lawsuit against the club... if the insurance firm had stipulations and the club violated them, it is all on the club...

Judges love this stuff and your friend should get the money.

[famousdavis]

Yes, the course should pay, they are liable for the money whether the insurance pays or not. If it were me though, I would probably make a deal with them for lifetime golfing privileges in exchange for allowing them to slide by on the money deal. I would think they would probably jump at a deal like that and I would be satisfied with the golfing privileges.

Good idea. Then you could tell everyone you play with the whole story and end it with "so I got that going for me, which is nice".

[Pky6471]

Yes, the course should pay, they are liable for the money whether the insurance pays or not. If it were me though, I would probably make a deal with them for lifetime golfing privileges in exchange for allowing them to slide by on the money deal. I would think they would probably jump at a deal like that and I would be satisfied with the golfing privileges.

no, no, no.... take the money and run. If you move away from the area then you will lose everything with this lifetime deal

[mongrel]

The tournament organizers and the course should pay the guy. Just for being stupid and either not reading the contract with the insurer or disregarding it. And for being total morons. Anyone with a nanogram of gray matter knows that a hole-in-one prize par 3 should be at least 190-200 yards and the hole should be placed in the most difficult location on the green. If it made it to court and I was the judge, I would cut through all the b*llsh&t and ask the plaintiff/acer what club he used. If he said "wedge" or "9", I would award him the cash in a summary judgement. If he said "4" or "9 wood" or "3 hybrid", I would throw his case out so quick that I would have pounded the gavel and be back in chambers quicker than the average hang time of Rory McIlroy's lob wedge. Case closed. With prejudice.

[famousdavis]

The tournament organizers and the course should pay the guy. Just for being stupid and either not reading the contract with the insurer or disregarding it. And for being total morons. Anyone with a nanogram of gray matter knows that a hole-in-one prize par 3 should be at least 190-200 yards and the hole should be placed in the most difficult location on the green. If it made it to court and I was the judge, I would cut through all the b*llsh&t and ask the plaintiff/acer what club he used. If he said "wedge" or "9", I would award him the cash in a summary judgement. If he said "4" or "9 wood" or "3 hybrid", I would throw his case out so quick that I would have pounded the gavel and be back in chambers quicker than the average hang time of Rory McIlroy's lob wedge. Case closed. With prejudice.

I don't think they should pay the guy. 138 yards isn't long enough for a hole in one to count. In addition, if he makes a stink about it they should ban him from the course. Look at all the trouble he's caused.

[poe4soul]

I don't think they should pay the guy. 138 yards isn't long enough for a hole in one to count. In addition, if he makes a stink about it they should ban him from the course. Look at all the trouble he's caused.

Isn't 17 on TPC Sawgrass around the same distance?

I'm still an Ace virgin. I hit the pin yesterday, again for the forth or fifth time, but no ace on the cards. I'd take a 135 yard ace.

[famousdavis]

Isn't 17 on TPC Sawgrass around the same distance?

I'm still an Ace virgin. I hit the pin yesterday, again for the forth or fifth time, but no ace on the cards. I'd take a 135 yard ace.

..and that is why no one will remember your name.

[Horseballs]

This is really a very simple situation. The tournament organizers owe this guy 10K. Unless he had to remove a clubhead cover to hit the shot, in which case he doesn't get a damn thing.

[lorenzoinoc]

The golf course isn't liable unless they were the tournament organizer or had been made aware of the distance condition by the tournament organizer.

Most likely the tournament organizer is liable, however, if the hole in one contest was not made as an inducement prior to the start of the tournament, innocent mistake would likely invalidate the claim.

Spank's right, small claims, otherwise attorney fees would eat up further recovery. If the tournament organizer was a charity, the golf tournament was about raising money for them and the golf course isn't responsible, you'd have to be a d.ick to sue them.

[famousdavis]

The golf course isn't liable unless they were the tournament organizer or had been made aware of the distance condition by the tournament organizer.

Most likely the tournament organizer is liable, however, if the hole in one contest was not made as an inducement prior to the start of the tournament, innocent mistake would likely invalidate the claim.

Spank's right, small claims, otherwise attorney fees would eat up further recovery. If the tournament organizer was a charity, the golf tournament was about raising money for them and the golf course isn't responsible, you'd have to be a d.ick to sue them.

Well stated. Good points all around. The tournament is responsible for paying the award. Most tournaments are created by a group of people who want to donate the proceeds to a charity or some cause. It's difficult to determine who is ultimately resposible for the charity or who is the tournament host. Forget it. This guy is never getting his money. You'd have more luck getting an interview with Tiger.

[poe4soul]

Well stated. Good points all around. The tournament is responsible for paying the award. Most tournaments are created by a group of people who want to donate the proceeds to a charity or some cause. It's difficult to determine who is ultimately resposible for the charity or who is the tournament host. Forget it. This guy is never getting his money. You'd have more luck getting an interview with Tiger.

There's one othes twist. The prize could have been sponsored by someone or a company that has paid to sponsor the hole. There name is on the hole and they usually get the insurance directly. My wife volunteers getting sponsors for charity golf tournaments. This last one had two hole sponsors that split the cost. The prize was an A5 for the hole in one. The cost was split between a car dealership and a bank for the insurance. I bet you the course and the event organizers never get a copy of the contract.

[divotman]

The golf course isn't liable unless they were the tournament organizer or had been made aware of the distance condition by the tournament organizer.

Most likely the tournament organizer is liable, however, if the hole in one contest was not made as an inducement prior to the start of the tournament, innocent mistake would likely invalidate the claim.

Spank's right, small claims, otherwise attorney fees would eat up further recovery. If the tournament organizer was a charity, the golf tournament was about raising money for them and the golf course isn't responsible, you'd have to be a d.ick to sue them.

That's it exactly. The course did not set up the hole-in-one prizes, and the tournament was a "fundraiser". So the player would have to sue the organization, which would make him look bad. Ultimately it was due to lack of communication between the tournament director/organizer, and the course, i.e. he did not give them the paperwork from the company that was insuring the hole-in-one.

I'll keep you all posted if anything interesting happens. Thanks for your input.

[famousdavis]

That's it exactly. The course did not set up the hole-in-one prizes, and the tournament was a "fundraiser". So the player would have to sue the organization, which would make him look bad. Ultimately it was due to lack of communication between the tournament director/organizer, and the course, i.e. he did not give them the paperwork from the company that was insuring the hole-in-one.

I'll keep you all posted if anything interesting happens. Thanks for your input.

I've changed my mind on this. I don't think the guy who got the hole in one should get anything. The insurance company provided the parameters for the hole in one prize. Someone put the tee markers in the wrong place. It's not the sponsors fault nor is it the tournament's fault. It's the fault of the person who put the tees in the wrong place. The player who made the hole in one has no right to go after the sponsor who sponsored the hole. Time to suck it up and admit you made a cheap hole in one on a dog track.

[mongrel]

I've changed my mind on this. I don't think the guy who got the hole in one should get anything. The insurance company provided the parameters for the hole in one prize. Someone put the tee markers in the wrong place. It's not the sponsors fault nor is it the tournament's fault. It's the fault of the person who put the tees in the wrong place. The player who made the hole in one has no right to go after the sponsor who sponsored the hole. Time to suck it up and admit you made a cheap hole in one on a dog track.

Wrong. It was either unintentional negligence or intentional fraud on the part of the tournament sponsor. The sponsor used the $10,000 hole in one to lure players. The sponsor should have been cognizant of the contract it signed with the insurer including the minimum yardage requirement for payment of a claim. If a sponsor representative did not check the yardage of the hole in one hole prior to the commencement of tournament play, the sponsor was negligent. If a sponsor rep checked the yardage and had the course management move the tees up closer than the de minimus claim distance, that's fraud with a big capital "F". What probably happened was the hole was not checked prior to play and that the sponsor had a person, female most likely, running the show who would not know the difference between a niblick and a clitlick. Verdict for the plaintiff. Pay the acer. Within 30 days. Court adjourned.

[huskyhater]

BOO HOO, did this happen in Seattle to a whiner husky fan? If not (ALL husky fans are whiners) then the course should man up and give the guy at least SOMETHING in merchandise-maybe at least half the price of the 'promised' cash prize. Otherwise the player should state the name of the course and we'll all boycott the SOB's.

[Snapper]

I don't think the hole sponsor has anything to do with this.
Our local church, fire department, Chamber of Commerce etc tournaments have people go around to businesses soliciting sponsors.
The sponsor just writes a check and has no idea what hole he is sponsoring.
If someone tried to get $10 K out of the people I know who sponsor a hole, they would tell them to go get f*-ked!
As far as who is responsible, damfyknow !

[daveperkins]

..and that is why no one will remember your name.

So he'd have that going for him... Which is nice.

[Not a hacker]

First time I've seen this thread, but better late then never. I personally think that if the organisers approached the insurers it could all be worked out quite easily. I'd imagine a long term commitment to the insurer from the company for all their future business would convince the insurer to allow a retrospective policy covering the shorter distance. For the addition a highly jacked up premium and excess from the organiser of course. Andd maybe a feel good story in the local newspaper detailing their generosity. It's only 10k for fuk's sake, chump change for an insurqnce company. The PR alone they would get would more than repay it.