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  1. #1
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    The Official President's Cup Sell-Out Thread

    It's rare for pro golfers to willingly invite controversy into their world. It happens occasionally but these guys know it rarely works to their benefit.

    So what might explain Geoff Ogilvy blasting Couples and the American team for selecting Tiger Woods? Ogilvy is a class act who seems to be in control over what he says or does.

    It had to do with getting sponsorship $$$. Obviously the dollars are way bigger with Woods.

    Ogilvy focused on the timing of Woods' selection as much or more than the fact that it was Woods. Having an early offer and commitment from Woods was a necessary part of pitching sponsors to realize the full financial delta. And the American promotors worked sponsors over pretty hard after the commitment. Couples did pick Woods months in advance of when captains normally make their picks. If it was scheduling it needn't have been handled publicly.

    I have reliable inside info here. Not the source that told me about Woods' absence related to lost teeth but reliable just the same. Ogilvy found out from a sponsor of his this was going on. Can't keep this kind of thing a secret from the other side when they share sponsors. If you're an honorable competitor like Ogilvy, going public is the proper way to handle it.

    This does call into question just how Couples will be receiving his compensation.
    Last edited by lorenzoinoc; 10-20-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    It's rare for pro golfers to willingly invite controversy into their world. It happens occasionally but these guys know it rarely works to their benefit.

    So what might explain Geoff Ogilvy blasting Couples and the American team for selecting Tiger Woods? Ogilvy is a class act who seems to be in control over what he says or does.

    It had to do with getting sponsorship $$$. Obviously the dollars are way bigger with Woods.

    Ogilvy focused on the timing of Woods' selection as much or more than the fact that it was Woods. Having an early offer and commitment from Woods was a necessary part of pitching sponsors to realize the full financial delta. And the American promotors worked sponsors over pretty hard after the commitment. Couples did pick Woods months in advance of when captains normally make their picks. If it was scheduling it needn't have been handled publicly.

    I have reliable inside info here. Not the source that told me about Woods' absence related to lost teeth but reliable just the same. Ogilvy found out from a sponsor of his this was going on. Can't keep this kind of thing a secret from the other side when they share sponsors. If you're an honorable competitor like Ogilvy, going public is the proper way to handle it.

    This does call into question just how Couples will be receiving his compensation.
    From a rough tradesman? From behind?

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    On a different subject but I was fortunate enough to play the President Cup course layout last tuesday. The preparations are going along nicely with a lot of huge grandstands being built. Th course is now closed for turf preparations but it looks fantastic. It will be great viewing.
    Cobra ZL 9.5 Stock stiff.Sonartec SS 3.5 14*Sonartec HB-001 21* Cally Diablo Forged 4-6 nippons, 2013 x forged 7-pw pxi 5.5 TM rac 50/6 gw. Fourteen MT-28 54 & 58 S400 Daddy Long Legs 35"TM Lethal

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    From a rough tradesman? From behind?
    Don't know anything about Bradley's family but it's a good bet they'd contract out and your scenario would be as likely as any.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    It's rare for pro golfers to willingly invite controversy into their world. It happens occasionally but these guys know it rarely works to their benefit. But they do it anyway. There has to be a first time for each idiot who has done it.

    So what might explain Geoff Ogilvy blasting Couples and the American team for selecting Tiger Woods? He certainly wouldn't be the first to have created controversy during the President's Cup or Ryder Cup. Ogilvy is a class act who seems to be in control over what he says or does. Just like other guys who have created controversy in the past.

    It had to do with getting sponsorship $$$. Obviously the dollars are way bigger with Woods. Of course there are more sponsorship dollars now that Woods is playing. Duh.

    Ogilvy focused on the timing of Woods' selection as much or more than the fact that it was Woods. Ogilvy thought Keegan Bradley should have been picked. It had nothing to do with sponsorship. Having an early offer and commitment from Woods was a necessary part of pitching sponsors to realize the full financial delta. Thank you for your opinion. And the American promotors worked sponsors over pretty hard after the commitment. Couples did pick Woods months in advance of when captains normally make their picks. No, he picked him ONE month in advance. If it was scheduling it needn't have been handled publicly.

    I have reliable inside info here. Not the source that told me about Woods' absence related to lost teeth but reliable just the same. Ogilvy found out from a sponsor of his this was going on. Can't keep this kind of thing a secret from the other side when they share sponsors. Why Not? If you're an honorable competitor like Ogilvy, going public is the proper way to handle it. Both Ogilvy and Norman made comments about the Woods pick. Norman picked Allenby, an Australian (go figure) who hasn't won in ten years. I'd say Woods is just slightly better has a record that makes Allenby look like a range jockey.

    This does call into question just how Couples will be receiving his compensation. Right, because everything can be made into a conspiracy if you try hard enough. Maybe Couples picked Woods because he wanted someone who is the best in the world at match play and who has won 14 majors. Maybe he wanted all the other players to know ahead of time and not get their hopes up. Maybe he didn't want Woods to schedule anything else. Crazy, huh?
    Please see responses in bold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldplayer View Post
    On a different subject but I was fortunate enough to play the President Cup course layout last tuesday. The preparations are going along nicely with a lot of huge grandstands being built. Th course is now closed for turf preparations but it looks fantastic. It will be great viewing.
    I'll be rooting for you guys. I'm also hoping Ogilvy or someone else will have more specific things to say about the Americans' approach to sponsorship. Woods bowing out from the pressure and you guys waxing our tails would be a fitting result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Please see responses in bold.
    Thanks for your completely predictable knee jerk reaction from wherever it is you defend the fantasy land you live in.

    Did you read the part of having inside info on this? Do you need someone to explain it to you? Of course what I laid out could be intimated, the point was it has become known, not just a presumption. DDuhhh!!!

    And I'm privy to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    Thanks for your completely predictable knee jerk reaction from wherever it is you defend the fantasy land you live in.

    Did you read the part of having inside info on this? Do you need someone to explain it to you? Of course what I laid out could be intimated, the point was it has become known, not just a presumption. DDuhhh!!!

    And I'm privy to it.
    OK, fair enough. However, if Couples is getting paid on the side by sponsors, the host or some other entity then I assume it will all come out and Couples will be humiliated. We all know the press is just dying to find any kind of corruption out there. It stands to reason that if you know about it, then all of us will know about it very shortly. Correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    OK, fair enough. However, if Couples is getting paid on the side by sponsors, the host or some other entity then I assume it will all come out and Couples will be humiliated. We all know the press is just dying to find any kind of corruption out there. It stands to reason that if you know about it, then all of us will know about it very shortly. Correct?
    I would hope, I really do. The problem is, and I had this conversation this morning with my friend/source, those in the know are hesitant to be direct because they don't want to destroy The President's Cup or harm the Tour at a point when they're trying to find sponsors for next year's events. The players want those around the game to know what happened and tip their cap to Keegan Bradley.

    And golf journalists worry about losing access. For all to be revealed, outside journalists need to get involved and someone will need to spill. I hope that happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    I would hope, I really do. The problem is, and I had this conversation this morning with my friend/source, those in the know are hesitant to be direct because they don't want to destroy The President's Cup or harm the Tour at a point when they're trying to find sponsors for next year's events. The players want those around the game to know what happened and tip their cap to Keegan Bradley.

    And golf journalists worry about losing access. For all to be revealed, outside journalists need to get involved and someone will need to spill. I hope that happens.
    Sounds like a job for Jerry Rivers. OOPS. I mean "Geraldo Rivera".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Sounds like a job for Jerry Rivers. OOPS. I mean "Geraldo Rivera".
    Since I'd never find myself on the same side as Jerry, I hope that doesn't happen because I'd hate to have to defend Couples.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    I would hope, I really do. The problem is, and I had this conversation this morning with my friend/source, those in the know are hesitant to be direct because they don't want to destroy The President's Cup or harm the Tour at a point when they're trying to find sponsors for next year's events. The players want those around the game to know what happened and tip their cap to Keegan Bradley.

    And golf journalists worry about losing access. For all to be revealed, outside journalists need to get involved and someone will need to spill. I hope that happens.
    Something this big would be a career moment for any journalist and I believe anyone who had proof would jump at the chance to break the story.

    If Couples chose Woods as a means to make money for himself from sponsors, he would be completely destroyed if word got out.

    Another possibility, and definitely more plausible, is that Couples was going to choose Woods all along. If Tim Finchem knew this he might have approached Couples and asked him to pick Woods early so that they could get more sponsorship and three times the attendance. Nothing wrong with that.

    The is just my personal opinion, but the idea that Couples would risk his entire career and legacy to get paid directly by sponsors is absurd. I think Couples wants to win the Presidents Cup and he knows that Woods will help his team win. Keegan Bradley is a wild card while Tiger Woods is a proven weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    Since I'd never find myself on the same side as Jerry, I hope that doesn't happen because I'd hate to have to defend Couples.
    OK. Then the nicest and smartest guy in the business. John Stossel.

  14. #14
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    You mean like Tiger banging a dozen skanks?. Athletes and golfers are accustomed to get away with murder. FD, in some ways I envy your child-like innocence. Of course, in most ways I don't.
    Last edited by lorenzoinoc; 10-20-2011 at 04:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    FD, in some ways I envy your child-like innocence. Of course, in most ways I don't.
    If you were to meet me your envy would grow exponentially.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    If you were to meet me your envy would grow exponentially.
    Yes, envy of those who've never met you.
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    Like it or not, its all about tv ratings, and like it or not, Woods is a huge draw. Some want him to play well and some are just the opposite, but both will watch. No other pick could possibly create as much in ratings, so its an obvious choice.

    No one had to convince Couples he needed to take Woods as his pick, he would know it instinctively. All he needed was proof that Woods was healthy, and Woods did that in a tournament recently, (forget which exact one).

    PS I am privy to no insider information, just my own opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFetters View Post
    Like it or not, its all about tv ratings, and like it or not, Woods is a huge draw. Some want him to play well and some are just the opposite, but both will watch. No other pick could possibly create as much in ratings, so its an obvious choice.

    No one had to convince Couples he needed to take Woods as his pick, he would know it instinctively. All he needed was proof that Woods was healthy, and Woods did that in a tournament recently, (forget which exact one).

    PS I am privy to no insider information, just my own opinion.
    I agree with this. I forgive the occasional viewer who doesn't tee it up that much, if at all. It's just the way things work. Somebody develops a brand and money drives the rest. Disgust gets pinned on those more serious about golf who nonetheless shove their entire heads up the asses of Woods, Couples and others of their genre. Those people have deficient brains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    I agree with this. I forgive the occasional viewer who doesn't tee it up that much, if at all. It's just the way things work. Somebody develops a brand and money drives the rest. Disgust gets pinned on those more serious about golf who nonetheless shove their entire heads up the asses of Woods, Couples and others of their genre. Those people have deficient brains.
    That's one view. Another would be that some people don't automatically dislike a player because he's popular or think the worst of them. If you have inside information on the subject I respect that but logic comes into play as well. I personally think Couples picked Woods because he thought it would help his team win. Of course that's going to help the ratings, sponsorship, etc. but that doesn't mean that he did it for those reasons.

    I like to watch Woods play golf and I like to watch Couples play golf. They are probably my two favorite people to watch. Is that because huge crowds follow them and it creates more excitement? That's probably part of it. An analogy would be going to a hit movie like Star Wars and watching it alone on TV rather than seeing it with a filled theatre. It's more enjoyable with everyone else. We're human beings. We like what we like. Trying to dissect why we like a sports fan is the act of a freshman in college.

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    I dont like Wood's attitude on the course,,not so much when he hits a great shot, but his attitude when he hits a bad shot. Couples' is a good watch, but unfortunately his time is past, mostly due to his back.

    What I really enjoy is seeing the young players take over,,ie seeing Haas hit a clutch shot out of the water and go on to win. Some might say it wasnt that difficult of a shot, but under that type of pressure, I say it was a great shot. There are just so many new stars on the tour these days, that its going to be hard for anyone, including Woods, dominate like he once did. He might never win another major, not because he can't find his swing, but more due to other players being hot on any given week.

    When Donald is ranked #1 in the world, that should tell you just how much parity exists on the tour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFetters View Post
    I dont like Wood's attitude on the course,,not so much when he hits a great shot, but his attitude when he hits a bad shot. Couples' is a good watch, but unfortunately his time is past, mostly due to his back.

    What I really enjoy is seeing the young players take over,,ie seeing Haas hit a clutch shot out of the water and go on to win. Some might say it wasnt that difficult of a shot, but under that type of pressure, I say it was a great shot. There are just so many new stars on the tour these days, that its going to be hard for anyone, including Woods, dominate like he once did. He might never win another major, not because he can't find his swing, but more due to other players being hot on any given week.

    When Donald is ranked #1 in the world, that should tell you just how much parity exists on the tour.

    Obviously, too much weight is placed on the Accenture Match Play Championship. It's a match play event and several mediocre players have won it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFetters View Post
    I dont like Wood's attitude on the course,,not so much when he hits a great shot, but his attitude when he hits a bad shot. Couples' is a good watch, but unfortunately his time is past, mostly due to his back.

    What I really enjoy is seeing the young players take over,,ie seeing Haas hit a clutch shot out of the water and go on to win. Some might say it wasnt that difficult of a shot, but under that type of pressure, I say it was a great shot. There are just so many new stars on the tour these days, that its going to be hard for anyone, including Woods, dominate like he once did. He might never win another major, not because he can't find his swing, but more due to other players being hot on any given week.

    When Donald is ranked #1 in the world, that should tell you just how much parity exists on the tour.

    Absolutely. If someone can only appreciate something old and familiar, maybe they should grab their blankie. Can you just imagine how tv execs must laugh amongst themselves over how some viewers fall for the Tiger/Nantz melodrama?
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    Haha,,dont get me started on Nantz,,,this is supposed to be clean cut civil forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFetters View Post
    Haha,,dont get me started on Nantz,,,this is supposed to be clean cut civil forum
    What gave you.the impression we were clean or civil?
    Now STFU Noob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul View Post
    What gave you.the impression we were clean or civil?
    Now STFU Noob.
    Actually my comment says,,its supposed to be a clean and civil forum,,not that it actually always is. Had you actually been able to understand my comment, and that I decided not to opine regarding Nantz in the interest of civility, perhaps you wouldnt have made such an inept and inane comment yourself.

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