what shaft for 3W?

[jmtbkr]

Just bought a 3W for that inbetween gap.
G15 w/stiff shaft.

I'm having a hard time hitting it straight. Kinda slices off on me after starting out straight. Off the tee or off the deck, sliceroo. The same thing was happening to me with my driver. I switched out the shaft for a Serrano60 stiff and now I drive consistantly straight.
Can I use the same shaft on my 3W or are there other shafts made for fairway woods?
Any recomendations?
I don't have a particuarly fast swing either. Mid to upper 80's.

[SoonerBS]

Go buy you a DG S300 steel shaft and put in it. You're welcome.

[mongrel]

Using a driver shaft for a fairway wood can be done successfully. Keep in mind that shaft manufacturers recommend tipping 46" raw shafts for installation in fairway wood heads. Tipping a shaft makes it play stiffer. Trimming the shaft from the butt end also makes it play stiffer. So if you like the way the driver plays, maybe put the same shaft in the 3 wood untipped and trimmed from the butt end. Dial it in with a couple of grams of lead tape on back of the 3 wood head or maybe a lighter grip. I have yet to find a really good shaft for any of my fairway wood heads although I just put a butchered and tipped Diamana Blue in my 20* Cobra hybrid and so far it hits real nice.

[famousdavis]

Just bought a 3W for that inbetween gap.
G15 w/stiff shaft.

I'm having a hard time hitting it straight. Kinda slices off on me after starting out straight. Off the tee or off the deck, sliceroo. The same thing was happening to me with my driver. I switched out the shaft for a Serrano60 stiff and now I drive consistantly straight.
Can I use the same shaft on my 3W or are there other shafts made for fairway woods?
Any recomendations?
I don't have a particuarly fast swing either. Mid to upper 80's.

I've found that using the same model 3 wood as your driver doesn't work. I have no research to substantiate this claim but I think the 3 wood should be different than your other clubs because it's a completely different weapon in your arsenal of clubs.

For example, I use a Callaway Steelhead Strong 3 wood with RCH 99 Firm shaft. When I hit it really solid I can hit it about 240 to 250. I thought to myself "buy the Steelhead driver" and I'll hit it 270. Not the case. I couldn't hit that driver at all.

[CPS]

Try a model 10 grams heavier than what you like in the driver and have it cut 2 inches shorter than your driver length... that is as close as it can get to the same. The swing weight makes using the same exact model problematic... 3 woods should generally have a lower kick point than your driver as well (unless you never plan on hitting it off the grass)... which of course changes everything as well... in other words... there is no answer. I use a different model 3 wood than driver like is being said here, so that makes everything variable as well. But it seem to make sense to have a 3W that feels close to the driver... especially off the tee.

Tell you what go find a Yonex Graphite Composite 3W and put a Callaway Uniflex steel shaft in it... that is MONEY!

Good Luck.

[oldplayer]

I've found that using the same model 3 wood as your driver doesn't work. I have no research to substantiate this claim but I think the 3 wood should be different than your other clubs because it's a completely different weapon in your arsenal of clubs.

For example, I use a Callaway Steelhead Strong 3 wood with RCH 99 Firm shaft. When I hit it really solid I can hit it about 240 to 250. I thought to myself "buy the Steelhead driver" and I'll hit it 270. Not the case. I couldn't hit that driver at all.

I have had the same experience. Bought a driver because I liked the same model 3 wood or visa versa. It does not translate. The 3 wood is a completely different beast.
3 wood shafts are generally heavier than driver shafts and I would not put a driver shaft in a 3 wood.
As far a slicing goes some shaft/head combinations will accentuate a slicers swing and some will help it. Some heads sit a little open and are weighted to stop the toe turning over. These are generally better player clubs. I would not think the G15 would fall into that catagory. Sounds to me is is more a swing techinque issue that would be easier to fix than to experiment with shafts that may or not help.

[Fluffy]

I've found that using the same model 3 wood as your driver doesn't work. I have no research to substantiate this claim but I think the 3 wood should be different than your other clubs because it's a completely different weapon in your arsenal of clubs.

For example, I use a Callaway Steelhead Strong 3 wood with RCH 99 Firm shaft. When I hit it really solid I can hit it about 240 to 250. I thought to myself "buy the Steelhead driver" and I'll hit it 270. Not the case. I couldn't hit that driver at all.

I also started believing in that the clubs should be different,or atleast two different versions, as your driver shot vs your 3w shot wont be the same at all if you think buying the same make and model would.

[Pottsy]

I also started believing in that the clubs should be different,or atleast two different versions, as your driver shot vs your 3w shot wont be the same at all if you think buying the same make and model would.

They are totally different clubs even if they are the same make and model.

It is not just a shorter version of your driver with more loft. It is built differently albeit with the same technology.

I suggest people go to the range rather than blaming their equipment constantly. Honestly I've never heard so much BS as needing a different model 3 wood to driver.

[Fluffy]

They are totally different clubs even if they are the same make and model.

It is not just a shorter version of your driver with more loft. It is built differently albeit with the same technology.

I suggest people go to the range rather than blaming their equipment constantly. Honestly I've never heard so much BS as needing a different model 3 wood to driver.

I had a 3 wood callaway diablo edge.That thing could hit 270m easily,my 3iron and driver went higher then the 3 wood and it would always pull left.It was impossible to work left to right with small tweaks. lets rather say that the most perfect 3wood in the same make and model will not neccasarily have the best driver for that model....

[Pottsy]

I had a 3 wood callaway diablo edge.That thing could hit 270m easily,my 3iron and driver went higher then the 3 wood and it would always pull left.It was impossible to work left to right with small tweaks. lets rather say that the most perfect 3wood in the same make and model will not neccasarily have the best driver for that model....

I agree that there isn't a rule. Just because the driver suits you doesn't mean the 3 wood will. BUT necessarily that means that if a driver suits you so may the 3 wood... it is not a rule that you cannot have the same make driver and 3 wood and hit them both well. It's all about swing mechanics, talent and to some extent the shaft.

[Lord Helmet]

My driver (Titty 909D3) is shafted with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red and I love the combo....

Was thinking of installing same shaft (driver shaft) into my 3w, which had a GD YS6+. The GD felt too light and shots would balloon on me.

After debating for awhile...I ended up installing a Grafalloy Prolaunch Red FW shaft. Weight is about 10g heavier than the driver counterpart. Same high kickpoint as the driver shaft.

Ive had 2 range sessions with the new 3w shaft/head combo and I love it. Ball flight is lower, no ballooning. Really glad I made the move to the FW version. Great feel.

I do not use my 3w off the deck - its strictly a short4, dogleg, tight driving hole type of club for me. The head is a Cally Razr Hawk 15*.

G luck.

[famousdavis]

I agree that there isn't a rule. Just because the driver suits you doesn't mean the 3 wood will. BUT necessarily that means that if a driver suits you so may the 3 wood... it is not a rule that you cannot have the same make driver and 3 wood and hit them both well. It's all about swing mechanics, talent and to some extent the shaft.

No, you are wrong. It's an unwritten rule amongst good players that the 3 wood needs to be different than the driver. If you look in the bags of tour pros and good amateurs you will see that the 3 wood is always different than the driver. I think this is a personal issue with you and it's become clear that you play the same model driver and 3 wood. I sincerely hope you don't use iron covers.

[daveperkins]

I've found that using the same model 3 wood as your driver doesn't work. I have no research to substantiate this claim but I think the 3 wood should be different than your other clubs because it's a completely different weapon in your arsenal of clubs.

For example, I use a Callaway Steelhead Strong 3 wood with RCH 99 Firm shaft. When I hit it really solid I can hit it about 240 to 250. I thought to myself "buy the Steelhead driver" and I'll hit it 270. Not the case. I couldn't hit that driver at all.

And you know I have a three wood that works like a charm but the same model driver isn't that great. Even after I changed the shaft of that HiBore XLS driver it's still not great. But the HiBore XLS three wood with the stock Fit On Red shaft in X flex is superb for me. It's the only X left in my bag and would seem to be out of place but it just suits me too good to put down.

[famousdavis]

And you know I have a three wood that works like a charm but the same model driver isn't that great. Even after I changed the shaft of that HiBore XLS driver it's still not great. But the HiBore XLS three wood with the stock Fit On Red shaft in X flex is superb for me. It's the only X left in my bag and would seem to be out of place but it just suits me too good to put down.

That's a perfect example. You hit that 3 wood every bit as far as the driver, maybe even longer. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!

[Pky6471]

Aldila NV green works extremely well for me... and I don't have a fast SS... IMO, 3W is the most difficult club to hit consistently, now I also carry a 15* gaybrid which works well for my strategy. If there is no room for error then I play 15* gaybrid... if there is room for my errant shot then I would pull out my 15* 3W

[famousdavis]

Aldila NV green works extremely well for me... and I don't have a fast SS... IMO, 3W is the most difficult club to hit consistently, now I also carry a 15* gaybrid which works well for my strategy. If there is no room for error then I play 15* gaybrid... if there is room for my errant shot then I would pull out my 15* 3W

I don't hit my 3 wood well off the tee but I hit it exceptionally well off the fairway. So, really, the only time I hit it is on a Par 5 and occasionally on a short Par 4.

[Pottsy]

No, you are wrong. It's an unwritten rule amongst good players that the 3 wood needs to be different than the driver. If you look in the bags of tour pros and good amateurs you will see that the 3 wood is always different than the driver. I think this is a personal issue with you and it's become clear that you play the same model driver and 3 wood. I sincerely hope you don't use iron covers.

Haha you sussed me (though it's on my in the bag section) but not on the iron covers. I most definitely do not use them.

[Pottsy]

Aldila NV green works extremely well for me... and I don't have a fast SS... IMO, 3W is the most difficult club to hit consistently, now I also carry a 15* gaybrid which works well for my strategy. If there is no room for error then I play 15* gaybrid... if there is room for my errant shot then I would pull out my 15* 3W

Everybody has their own preferred bag set up so knock yourself out but for me it's a total waste of a club you could have in by using two of the same degree.

[Pottsy]

I don't hit my 3 wood well off the tee but I hit it exceptionally well off the fairway. So, really, the only time I hit it is on a Par 5 and occasionally on a short Par 4.

If you hit it well off the fairway then surely (if need be) you could tee it mega low and hit it great off the tee?

[poe4soul]

If you hit it well off the fairway then surely (if need be) you could tee it mega low and hit it great off the tee?

I had the same thought. Tee box and level and a teed ball is basically a perfect lie. You should be able to hit it better off the tee unless you have a mental problem.

[lorenzoinoc]

Maybe off the tee in some way the suckage from his Ping irons has a more profound effect. In the fairway, the Pings are known to be disoriented and confused which might lessen their influence.

The only other thing I can think of is gremlins...

[Kiwi Player]

Try a model 10 grams heavier than what you like in the driver and have it cut 2 inches shorter than your driver length... that is as close as it can get to the same. The swing weight makes using the same exact model problematic... 3 woods should generally have a lower kick point than your driver as well (unless you never plan on hitting it off the grass)... which of course changes everything as well... in other words... there is no answer. I use a different model 3 wood than driver like is being said here, so that makes everything variable as well. But it seem to make sense to have a 3W that feels close to the driver... especially off the tee.

Tell you what go find a Yonex Graphite Composite 3W and put a Callaway Uniflex steel shaft in it... that is MONEY!

Good Luck.

I dunno about that statement. At the weekend I played in a three day Tournament and on Friday I was having real problems keeping the driver in play. So I started teeing it up with the 3 wood and was striping solid tee shots down the middle for the rest of the day. For whatever reason I had lost all confidence in the driver. I don't hit my 3 wood very often on my home course and when I do I don't normally hit it that well but in this round it was my saviour. So the point of difference between the two clubs was important on this occasion.

[poe4soul]

I dunno about that statement. At the weekend I played in a three day Tournament and on Friday I was having real problems keeping the driver in play. So I started teeing it up with the 3 wood and was striping solid tee shots down the middle for the rest of the day. For whatever reason I had lost all confidence in the driver. I don't hit my 3 wood very often on my home course and when I do I don't normally hit it that well but in this round it was my saviour. So the point of difference between the two clubs was important on this occasion.

It's all in your head.

[Kiwi Player]

I had the same thought. Tee box and level and a teed ball is basically a perfect lie. You should be able to hit it better off the tee unless you have a mental problem.

Speaking of teeing it low I started using my 3 wood off the tee during my round on Friday as I couldn't keep the driver in play. I started my round on Saturday using 3 wood off the tee from the get go and slowly and sparingly reintroduced my driver as the round progressed. I used driver 1st on the 9th hole and a couple of other occasions on driving holes where there was plenty of room and driver was appropriate. However because I'd been using 3 wood so much off the tee during the previous round and a half I teed the ball down low (like I normally do with my 3 wood) and hit driver with it. I realised just as the club face was coming into impact but of course by then it was too late. I actually nailed a pretty sweet drive that sailed out on a lower trajectory than usual with a slight fade. This is something I have never tried before but It got me thinking that this might be a good tactic when driving into the wind. Anybody else tee the driver lower when wanting to hit lower drives?

[famousdavis]

If you hit it well off the fairway then surely (if need be) you could tee it mega low and hit it great off the tee?

Not necessarily. A 3 wood hit off of the fairway when trying to reach a Par 5 is a completely different shot than a tee'd up 3 wood off of the tee box, trying to land the ball in the fairway.

When I'm going for a Par 5 and hitting off the fairway I'm hitting down on the ball a little more than if I was hitting off a tee.

If I'm using the 3 wood for a tee shot it's more of a driver swing with a smaller headed club. Since I hit my 3 wood a long ways, it stands to reason that I might as well hit a 460 CC driver than a small headed Callaway Steelhead.

Surely you can understand this.

[Kiwi Player]

It's all in your head.

A shorter shaft and 15* loft all in my head?

BTW on Sunday I had one of my best driving days in a long time. Part of it may have been in my head but I also tweaked a couple of things at the range between rounds and was striping the driver down the middle all day on Sunday.

[mongrel]

Speaking of teeing it low I started using my 3 wood off the tee during my round on Friday as I couldn't keep the driver in play. I started my round on Saturday using 3 wood off the tee from the get go and slowly and sparingly reintroduced my driver as the round progressed. I used driver 1st on the 9th hole and a couple of other occasions on driving holes where there was plenty of room and driver was appropriate. However because I'd been using 3 wood so much off the tee during the previous round and a half I teed the ball down low (like I normally do with my 3 wood) and hit driver with it. I realised just as the club face was coming into impact but of course by then it was too late. I actually nailed a pretty sweet drive that sailed out on a lower trajectory than usual with a slight fade. This is something I have never tried before but It got me thinking that this might be a good tactic when driving into the wind. Anybody else tee the driver lower when wanting to hit lower drives?

Practice hitting your driver off the turf. I will do that periodically even off driving range mats although not with any of my gamer drivers with shafts I really like. I used to do it a lot back when all drivers had steel shafts and, naturally, it is much easier to do it with a 43.5" club than a 45 or 46" inch one. If you can get to the point where you just take a small amount of turf and hit it solid with a bit of elevation and a slight fade, then you've got it down and teeling it up just a bit, maybe with the ball opposite the sweet spot, you will hit some powerful bullets that bore through the wind and, on fairways that run fast, roll forever.

[Kiwi Player]

[/B]

All the time. Also put it back in the stance and hood it as well.

Maybe I'll try this at the range but hooding the driver just makes me think "Snaphook!"

[oldplayer]

Speaking of teeing it low I started using my 3 wood off the tee during my round on Friday as I couldn't keep the driver in play. I started my round on Saturday using 3 wood off the tee from the get go and slowly and sparingly reintroduced my driver as the round progressed. I used driver 1st on the 9th hole and a couple of other occasions on driving holes where there was plenty of room and driver was appropriate. However because I'd been using 3 wood so much off the tee during the previous round and a half I teed the ball down low (like I normally do with my 3 wood) and hit driver with it. I realised just as the club face was coming into impact but of course by then it was too late. I actually nailed a pretty sweet drive that sailed out on a lower trajectory than usual with a slight fade. This is something I have never tried before but It got me thinking that this might be a good tactic when driving into the wind. Anybody else tee the driver lower when wanting to hit lower drives?

All the time. Also put it back in the stance and hood it as well.

[CPS]

I dunno about that statement. At the weekend I played in a three day Tournament and on Friday I was having real problems keeping the driver in play. So I started teeing it up with the 3 wood and was striping solid tee shots down the middle for the rest of the day. For whatever reason I had lost all confidence in the driver. I don't hit my 3 wood very often on my home course and when I do I don't normally hit it that well but in this round it was my saviour. So the point of difference between the two clubs was important on this occasion.

Yeah, that's what I was more or less saying. I don't personally have a close match between Driver and 3W but I can see how it makes sense. My Driver is a 909D2 with a Fuji Motore F1 and a Cally Diablo Edge with a Fuji E370. My 3W doesn't feel anything like my Driver and it seems to work OK.

I hit a 909F2 3W and hated it... and I really like the D2. I thought the F2 was undersized and more for a real pro than an 8 cap. I even picked the Diablo Edge normal oversize over the smaller tour platform... no logic or connections at all. But I demo everything on the range and that is what happened.

[poe4soul]

A shorter shaft and 15* loft all in my head?

BTW on Sunday I had one of my best driving days in a long time. Part of it may have been in my head but I also tweaked a couple of things at the range between rounds and was striping the driver down the middle all day on Sunday.

Yah, I get it. One bad drive usually leads to another when you get tentative. At least that's my problem.

[famousdavis]

Yah, I get it. One bad drive usually leads to another when you get tentative. At least that's my problem.

That's especially true in competition. I remember a men's club match play tournament where I hit two drives OB by trying to steer it down the fairway. The worst is when you play it safe with a 3 iron or hybrid off the tee and still hit it in the trees or in a hazard. I've done that plenty of times.

[Not a hacker]

That's especially true in competition. I remember a men's club match play tournament where I hit two drives OB by trying to steer it down the fairway. The worst is when you play it safe with a 3 iron or hybrid off the tee and still hit it in the trees or in a hazard. I've done that plenty of times.

Some times going with a long iron for safety puts more pressue on. I only hit iron on short par 4s where i need accuracy but dont need to flush it to get to where i need to be. Its not really playing safe if you find the fairway but are still 200 out.

[Kiwi Player]

Some times going with a long iron for safety puts more pressue on. I only hit iron on short par 4s where i need accuracy but dont need to flush it to get to where i need to be. Its not really playing safe if you find the fairway but are still 200 out.

On my home course I only usually hit 3 wood on two holes. One is a tight driving hole that narrows in the landing zone with trees on the right and deep scrub on the left. I hit 3 wood not because it is necessarily more accurate but because it means I'm less likely to reach the danger on the left. If I block or slice it into the trees on the right I'm still in the shite though. The other is a Par 3 that is 220 yards and is usually into the prevailing westerly wind.

However after this past weekend I'm thinking about playing 3 wood off the tee more often in future. I played on a different course for 3 days and used 3 wood a lot to avoid trouble. On my home course they have begun to grow the rough really deep in places, like knee deep. Previously it wasn't too deep and if you hit in there you could find your ball easily enough and sometimes the lie would be good enough to hit a rescue club or at least a mid iron. Now it's so deep it's tough to find your ball and if you do find it all you can do is hack it out with a wedge. My driving has been really inconsistent for the past few months and I can't afford to be sending wayward drives into that crap anymore. If I can keep the 3 wood in play down the middle that will be the smart play.

Hey ... if I'm going to be using 3 wood off tee so much maybe I need a 13* 3 wood?

Hmmm ... just when I thought my bag was set and I wouldn't be doing anymore club ho'ing for a while ...

[Pky6471]

Everybody has their own preferred bag set up so knock yourself out but for me it's a total waste of a club you could have in by using two of the same degree.

Pottsy... just like the Shanghai girls say "try it you may like it"

[Pottsy]

Speaking of teeing it low I started using my 3 wood off the tee during my round on Friday as I couldn't keep the driver in play. I started my round on Saturday using 3 wood off the tee from the get go and slowly and sparingly reintroduced my driver as the round progressed. I used driver 1st on the 9th hole and a couple of other occasions on driving holes where there was plenty of room and driver was appropriate. However because I'd been using 3 wood so much off the tee during the previous round and a half I teed the ball down low (like I normally do with my 3 wood) and hit driver with it. I realised just as the club face was coming into impact but of course by then it was too late. I actually nailed a pretty sweet drive that sailed out on a lower trajectory than usual with a slight fade. This is something I have never tried before but It got me thinking that this might be a good tactic when driving into the wind. Anybody else tee the driver lower when wanting to hit lower drives?

No! Teeing the driver lower promotes you to hit down on the ball more and to produce more spin (mainly backspin). Into the wind this is generally seen as a poor tactic!

[Pottsy]

Not necessarily. A 3 wood hit off of the fairway when trying to reach a Par 5 is a completely different shot than a tee'd up 3 wood off of the tee box, trying to land the ball in the fairway.

When I'm going for a Par 5 and hitting off the fairway I'm hitting down on the ball a little more than if I was hitting off a tee.

If I'm using the 3 wood for a tee shot it's more of a driver swing with a smaller headed club. Since I hit my 3 wood a long ways, it stands to reason that I might as well hit a 460 CC driver than a small headed Callaway Steelhead.

Surely you can understand this.

In a word NO! If you tee the 3 wood almost as low as you can (giving you the smallest of advantages over a fairway 3 wood) then you will be hitting down on it. This driver swing business is balony too. Your swing should be exactly the same for each full shot but your ball position should change thus making the extent of the strike change.

[SoonerBS]

I don't have any answers for this discussion though I am experimenting myself right now to find some. My driver is more or less a glorified 3 wood with a 16* loft and a 3 wood length shaft, but I hit it as long as I do any driver with lower loft and I like the 460 cc head better than I like standard 3 wood heads.

I'm currently experimenting to find the right lofted hybrid. I have 2 Mizuno hybrids -- a 14* and a 26*; 1 Cobra baffler 20*; and 3 Cleveland Halo hybrids at 15*, 22* and 25*. I would really like to be able to bag the 14* or 15* hybrids because that would give me a 3 wood length club, but try as I might I cannot get these freaking clubs up in the air. They both will fly about 5 feet above the ground and that is about it. They get good distance and this is all fine if I am in the middle of the fairway, but I can forget about trying to clear any obstacles that might be in the way. I have really been hitting some great shots with the Halo 25* hybrid lately and it has become my 200-210 yard club.

The Cleveland Halos are very easy hybrids to hit. The Mizuno hybrids are not. The Cobra baffler has its moments. I only recently got my Halo hybrids back from my brother who tried them out for 3 years, but only golfs 3 or 4 times a year.

Today, and for the next few days, I think I will bag the 22* along with the 25* and see what kind of distance differences I get.

[famousdavis]

In a word NO! If you tee the 3 wood almost as low as you can (giving you the smallest of advantages over a fairway 3 wood) then you will be hitting down on it. This driver swing business is balony too. Your swing should be exactly the same for each full shot but your ball position should change thus making the extent of the strike change.

In a word, Baloney! Your swing for the driver and 3 wood off of the tee should be exactly the same but the swing for an iron shot is completely different. The swing for a full pitching wedge is also slightly different than other iron shots. There are 5 games within the game of golf: Driver game, iron game, pitching game, chipping game and putting game. They all must be approached and executed differently. To approach them all in a similar fashion is a recipe for disaster created by the actions of a chopper.

[Pottsy]

In a word, Baloney! Your swing for the driver and 3 wood off of the tee should be exactly the same but the swing for an iron shot is completely different. The swing for a full pitching wedge is also slightly different than other iron shots. There are 5 games within the game of golf: Driver game, iron game, pitching game, chipping game and putting game. They all must be approached and executed differently. To approach them all in a similar fashion is a recipe for disaster created by the actions of a chopper.

BS! You can have different swings for different types of shots of course (we all have some feel for things) but for full shots your swing should hardly change at all if you want to be a consistent ball striker. F A C T.

[mongrel]

BS! You can have different swings for different types of shots of course (we all have some feel for things) but for full shots your swing should hardly change at all if you want to be a consistent ball striker. F A C T.

Corrrect. To get the most out of a driver, it should be struck with a level to ascending blow. Struck with a descending blow, the head will impart extra spin causing hooks, slices, balloon balls, and drastically reduced distances. Tiger and other tour pro's can get away with this because they play really soft balls and have extremely high clubhead speeds so their distances are competitive. Fairway woods and hybrids struck with upward blows result in the dreaded toppers. At the most, a level path through is what you need. Some of the really good old timers hit slightly down on their fairway woods. Player. Trevino. So the swing can remain constant but the ball positions will need to be adjusted. Or, like Nicklaus, you can play everything in the same spot. You'll need to custom weight your clubs for decent strikes.

[famousdavis]

BS! You can have different swings for different types of shots of course (we all have some feel for things) but for full shots your swing should hardly change at all if you want to be a consistent ball striker. F A C T.

BS Squared!! Next time you're in the states make a trip to Southern Cal and I'll show you how to hit all the shots. They'll call you the Wanderer...cause you'll be wandering how you got beat so bad.

[lorenzoinoc]

Corrrect. To get the most out of a driver, it should be struck with a level to ascending blow. Struck with a descending blow, the head will impart extra spin causing hooks, slices, balloon balls, and drastically reduced distances. Tiger and other tour pro's can get away with this because they play really soft balls and have extremely high clubhead speeds so their distances are competitive. Fairway woods and hybrids struck with upward blows result in the dreaded toppers. At the most, a level path through is what you need. Some of the really good old timers hit slightly down on their fairway woods. Player. Trevino. So the swing can remain constant but the ball positions will need to be adjusted. Or, like Nicklaus, you can play everything in the same spot. You'll need to custom weight your clubs for decent strikes.

Is spine angle changing with ball position? Is it different with the driver as compared to other clubs?

If spine angle changes you have a different swing.

Also, is plane changing as length of club changes? Isn't the swing different if the plane is different?

[Larryrsf]

I've found that using the same model 3 wood as your driver doesn't work. I have no research to substantiate this claim but I think the 3 wood should be different than your other clubs because it's a completely different weapon in your arsenal of clubs.

For example, I use a Callaway Steelhead Strong 3 wood with RCH 99 Firm shaft. When I hit it really solid I can hit it about 240 to 250. I thought to myself "buy the Steelhead driver" and I'll hit it 270. Not the case. I couldn't hit that driver at all.

Wow! Reading the posts in this thread makes me think that NONE of you take lessons and realize that a fundamentally correct swing works with every club, driver and 3w of any brand! It is not voodoo or magic. Those who have learned the correct fundamentals and then worked to ingrain them will be able to perform on the course, PERIOD! Alternately, if you can't perform on the course, you simply haven't done the required work on the range or with your teacher. You are doing something bogus--

The analogy to music is valid. Those who have taken lessons and worked to learn to play and then practiced sufficiently can perform-- anywhere. Those who have not done the work...

I challenge anyone to ask a teaching pro. Tell him how you can hit one brand but not another, yada, yada, yada, and he will stifle a grin and try to say with a straight face, "lets see your swing..." And 30 minutes later you will have some changes to work to ingrain. It is NEVER the club, whew!

This is me hitting a 3w hit off a tight lie against a strong wind at Camp Pendleton. I put everything into it--walked over in my effort to hit down on it and make a long divot in front of the ball, keep the clubhead accelerating. And I hit the green from 220 out. Not sure which of my three 3w that was. Doesn't matter, does it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acKD8oEJIjg

Larry

[lorenzoinoc]

Wow! Reading the posts in this thread makes me think that NONE of you take lessons and realize that a fundamentally correct swing works with every club, driver and 3w of any brand! It is not voodoo or magic. Those who have learned the correct fundamentals and then worked to ingrain them will be able to perform on the course, PERIOD! Alternately, if you can't perform on the course, you simply haven't done the required work on the range or with your teacher. You are doing something bogus--

The analogy to music is valid. Those who have taken lessons and worked to learn to play and then practiced sufficiently can perform-- anywhere. Those who have not done the work...

I challenge anyone to ask a teaching pro. Tell him how you can hit one brand but not another, yada, yada, yada, and he will stifle a grin and try to say with a straight face, "lets see your swing..." And 30 minutes later you will have some changes to work to ingrain. It is NEVER the club, whew!

Larry

Yes, just like to a drug dealer, drugs is all that matters.

[mongrel]

Is spine angle changing with ball position? Is it different with the driver as compared to other clubs?

If spine angle changes you have a different swing.

Also, is plane changing as length of club changes? Isn't the swing different if the plane is different?

Unless all your clubs are the same length, your spine and plane angles will be different by either miniscule or large degrees for each club. If you swing a 35.75" pitching wedge exactly the same way you swing a 45" driver, you'll hit one well and cold top or roust a chunk of sod with the other. If you are able to maintain your spine angle throughout every shot, you could hit a 30" wedge or a 50" driver well.

[lorenzoinoc]

Unless all your clubs are the same length, your spine and plane angles will be different by either miniscule or large degrees for each club. If you swing a 35.75" pitching wedge exactly the same way you swing a 45" driver, you'll hit one well and cold top or roust a chunk of sod with the other. If you are able to maintain your spine angle throughout every shot, you could hit a 30" wedge or a 50" driver well.

I agree fundamentals still apply but to say it's one swing oversells that point, don't you think?

[mongrel]

I agree fundamentals still apply but to say it's one swing oversells that point, don't you think?

One identical swing is not possible unless, again, all clubs are same length. When I think of the concept of one swing for full wedge through driver, I think of identical tempo, length of backswing, length of followthrough, the optimum weight shift, optimum ball position for each shot. Since I suffer from Adult Attention Deficit Syndrome, I really can't stand to watch pros with the slow, long, languid swings to see whether their tempos are the same from wedge to driver. My favourite is Nick Price who gets about his business lickety-split whether he's nailing a gapper or driver.

[lorenzoinoc]

One identical swing is not possible unless, again, all clubs are same length. When I think of the concept of one swing for full wedge through driver, I think of identical tempo, length of backswing, length of followthrough, the optimum weight shift, optimum ball position for each shot. Since I suffer from Adult Attention Deficit Syndrome, I really can't stand to watch pros with the slow, long, languid swings to see whether their tempos are the same from wedge to driver. My favourite is Nick Price who gets about his business lickety-split whether he's nailing a gapper or driver.

When I think of the concept of one swing for wedge through driver, I think of golf pros that don't understand the golf swing or are overselling simplicity.

[poe4soul]

In a word NO! If you tee the 3 wood almost as low as you can (giving you the smallest of advantages over a fairway 3 wood) then you will be hitting down on it. This driver swing business is balony too. Your swing should be exactly the same for each full shot but your ball position should change thus making the extent of the strike change.

You need to think about center of gravity of the club head a bit more and the roll of the face. Each effect the launch angle and amount of spin.

Your logic is flawed that teeing the ball low requires a descending strike. You can still make a sweeping swing, hit the club lower on a driver face which will cause the ball to launch at a lower angle due to the vertical roll of the face. It will also impart more spin but the more doesn't necessarily mean excessive spin.

Teeing the ball low on most 3w's is imperative because the center of gravity is low. This is because the club is designed to hit the ball of the ground lower on the clubface. Unless you have a high faced 3w I would tee the ball like it was a perfect lie on the intermediate cut of the fairway.

[famousdavis]

You need to think about center of gravity of the club head a bit more and the roll of the face. Each effect the launch angle and amount of spin.

Your logic is flawed that teeing the ball low requires a descending strike. You can still make a sweeping swing, hit the club lower on a driver face which will cause the ball to launch at a lower angle due to the vertical roll of the face. It will also impart more spin but the more doesn't necessarily mean excessive spin.

Teeing the ball low on most 3w's is imperative because the center of gravity is low. This is because the club is designed to hit the ball of the ground lower on the clubface. Unless you have a high faced 3w I would tee the ball like it was a perfect lie on the intermediate cut of the fairway.

INCORRECTO!!

It is much preferable to tee the ball about 1/4 to 1/2 inch off the ground when hitting a 3 wood. Take your normal driver swing and watch that ball fly out there with maximum carry and roll. It's much easier to hit it off the tee that way. The WORSTO thing you can do is tee it low and try to hit down on it. That simply never works. What you end up doing is hitting a duck hook or a pathetic slice. Trust me, it's the only way to do it.

[Kiwi Player]

I don't have any answers for this discussion though I am experimenting myself right now to find some. My driver is more or less a glorified 3 wood with a 16* loft and a 3 wood length shaft, but I hit it as long as I do any driver with lower loft and I like the 460 cc head better than I like standard 3 wood heads.

I'm currently experimenting to find the right lofted hybrid. I have 2 Mizuno hybrids -- a 14* and a 26*; 1 Cobra baffler 20*; and 3 Cleveland Halo hybrids at 15*, 22* and 25*. I would really like to be able to bag the 14* or 15* hybrids because that would give me a 3 wood length club, but try as I might I cannot get these freaking clubs up in the air. They both will fly about 5 feet above the ground and that is about it. They get good distance and this is all fine if I am in the middle of the fairway, but I can forget about trying to clear any obstacles that might be in the way. I have really been hitting some great shots with the Halo 25* hybrid lately and it has become my 200-210 yard club.

The Cleveland Halos are very easy hybrids to hit. The Mizuno hybrids are not. The Cobra baffler has its moments. I only recently got my Halo hybrids back from my brother who tried them out for 3 years, but only golfs 3 or 4 times a year.

Today, and for the next few days, I think I will bag the 22* along with the 25* and see what kind of distance differences I get.

I used to have the Cleveland Halo hybrids in 19*, 22* & 25*. Great hybrids IMO. I never felt tempted to get a 15* as I loved my 15* 3 wood at the time. I upgraded a couple of years ago to the Cleveland Launcher DST hybrids and I now own the 18*, 20.5* & 23* but I haven't really gained anything. These things are good too but no better than the Halos.

With the Halo I always bagged the 19* & 22* as 5wood & 3 iron replacements and ended up dropping the 25* as I preferred to bag a 4 iron. I do the same with the 18* & 20.5* and the 23* stays in the basement. My master plan was to bag the 18* & 23* to allow me to carry an extra wedge but I didn't like that setup and I've completely given up on carrying a Lob wedge.

[famousdavis]

I used to have the Cleveland Halo hybrids in 19*, 22* & 25*. Great hybrids IMO. I never felt tempted to get a 15* as I loved my 15* 3 wood at the time. I upgraded a couple of years ago to the Cleveland Launcher DST hybrids and I now own the 18*, 20.5* & 23* but I haven't really gained anything. These things are good too but no better than the Halos.

With the Halo I always bagged the 19* & 22* as 5wood & 3 iron replacements and ended up dropping the 25* as I preferred to bag a 4 iron. I do the same with the 18* & 20.5* and the 23* stays in the basement. My master plan was to bag the 18* & 23* to allow me to carry an extra wedge but I didn't like that setup and I've completely given up on carrying a Lob wedge.

You complain about the way Ping Eye 2s look yet you play with 3 Halo Hybrids in your bag? I think you should keep them all in the basement. The best looking hybrids are the Cobra Baffler DWS with Aldila shafts.

[mongrel]

You complain about the way Ping Eye 2s look yet you play with 3 Halo Hybrids in your bag? I think you should keep them all in the basement. The best looking hybrids are the Cobra Baffler DWS with Aldila shafts.

I like my original Baffler hybrids without the dw or tw weights. That's what lead tape is for. Those Aldila HL shafts are nasty sneaky snap hook machines. I like the V2 stiff shaft in my 23* but I've been through 4 or 5 different ones in my 20*. Its latest is a tipped and butt-cut Diamana Blue regular flex that came in my 907D2. I installed it to play pretty short and, based on last Sunday's mat range session, it goes pretty high and far into the wind carrying about 205-210 into a 20 mph headwind in 50* F. with range balls. Friday I'll test it off the turf. I've heard people rave about the Halo's but can never find them used. To me, that's a sign that they must be good because people are not trading them in.

[Kiwi Player]

You complain about the way Ping Eye 2s look yet you play with 3 Halo Hybrids in your bag? I think you should keep them all in the basement. The best looking hybrids are the Cobra Baffler DWS with Aldila shafts.

The Halo hybrids are a thing of beauty!

[jmtbkr]

Lots of good info here......but getting back to my original question about re-shafting my 3W.

Mongrel, you mention 'tipping'. Please explain to this noob. Cutting the shaft from the butt end makes sense to shorten it. How does all this affect stiffness?

My boy at GS reccomended the same shaft as my driver - Serrrano60 - but another guy there said Ping uses the Serrano75 shaft, a bit softer. I really am looking for alot stiffer than the stock stiff TFC shaft. The thing is toooo noodley soft for me.

[famousdavis]

I like my original Baffler hybrids without the dw or tw weights. That's what lead tape is for. Those Aldila HL shafts are nasty sneaky snap hook machines. I like the V2 stiff shaft in my 23* but I've been through 4 or 5 different ones in my 20*. Its latest is a tipped and butt-cut Diamana Blue regular flex that came in my 907D2. I installed it to play pretty short and, based on last Sunday's mat range session, it goes pretty high and far into the wind carrying about 205-210 into a 20 mph headwind in 50* F. with range balls. Friday I'll test it off the turf. I've heard people rave about the Halo's but can never find them used. To me, that's a sign that they must be good because people are not trading them in.

I think the stock stiff graphite shafts they come with are perfect. Sure, I've hooked them on occassion but that's pretty common with a hybrid club. I've hit some amazing shots with those clubs from 200 out that I never could have hit with an iron.

[mongrel]

Lots of good info here......but getting back to my original question about re-shafting my 3W.

Mongrel, you mention 'tipping'. Please explain to this noob. Cutting the shaft from the butt end makes sense to shorten it. How does all this affect stiffness?

My boy at GS reccomended the same shaft as my driver - Serrrano60 - but another guy there said Ping uses the Serrano75 shaft, a bit softer. I really am looking for alot stiffer than the stock stiff TFC shaft. The thing is toooo noodley soft for me.

Tipping refers to cutting some of the tip end (smaller end) of the shaft before gluing it into the hole. The more you take off, the stiffer the tip and most likely the shaft will play. Cutting off some of the butt end will also make the shaft play just a bit stiffer and will decrease the club's swingweight about 6 SW points per inch. So if you butt trim it an inch and like how it played before, you'll need to add about 12 grams of weight to the head. Now the heavier the shaft given the same flex, the stiffer it will play. So a 75 gram shaft of the same flex will in no way be softer than a 60 gram shaft. Also keep in mind that tipping and butt trimming change the flex (kick) point of the shaft just a bit. It may be good for you and could totally render the club unplayable. Since I started reshafting myself, I will experiment a lot with different shafts in different heads. It just takes me a couple of minutes to pull one and glue another in the hole.

[alangbaker]

Wow! Reading the posts in this thread makes me think that NONE of you take lessons and realize that a fundamentally correct swing works with every club, driver and 3w of any brand!

And watching you swing makes me know that you aren't one whose opinions about golf are really very useful.

It is not voodoo or magic. Those who have learned the correct fundamentals and then worked to ingrain them will be able to perform on the course, PERIOD! Alternately, if you can't perform on the course, you simply haven't done the required work on the range or with your teacher. You are doing something bogus--

So why can't you do it?

This is me hitting a 3w hit off a tight lie against a strong wind at Camp Pendleton. I put everything into it--walked over in my effort to hit down on it and make a long divot in front of the ball, keep the clubhead accelerating. And I hit the green from 220 out. Not sure which of my three 3w that was. Doesn't matter, does it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acKD8oEJIjg

Larry

Funny... ...you used to claim it was 230 (and into a magical strong wind that somehow didn't move a single leaf on any of the trees).

And if you were so good a year and a half ago, why have you been telling us you've had to learn it all over again?

[Pottsy]

BS Squared!! Next time you're in the states make a trip to Southern Cal and I'll show you how to hit all the shots. They'll call you the Wanderer...cause you'll be wandering how you got beat so bad.

Laughing my @ss off! I'm sure I would be very scared of you if I ever made it to So Cal

[Pottsy]

Wow! Reading the posts in this thread makes me think that NONE of you take lessons and realize that a fundamentally correct swing works with every club, driver and 3w of any brand! It is not voodoo or magic. Those who have learned the correct fundamentals and then worked to ingrain them will be able to perform on the course, PERIOD! Alternately, if you can't perform on the course, you simply haven't done the required work on the range or with your teacher. You are doing something bogus--

The analogy to music is valid. Those who have taken lessons and worked to learn to play and then practiced sufficiently can perform-- anywhere. Those who have not done the work...

I challenge anyone to ask a teaching pro. Tell him how you can hit one brand but not another, yada, yada, yada, and he will stifle a grin and try to say with a straight face, "lets see your swing..." And 30 minutes later you will have some changes to work to ingrain. It is NEVER the club, whew!

This is me hitting a 3w hit off a tight lie against a strong wind at Camp Pendleton. I put everything into it--walked over in my effort to hit down on it and make a long divot in front of the ball, keep the clubhead accelerating. And I hit the green from 220 out. Not sure which of my three 3w that was. Doesn't matter, does it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acKD8oEJIjg

Larry

I believe that is exactly what I was saying

[famousdavis]

Laughing my @ss off! I'm sure I would be very scared of you if I ever made it to So Cal

You wouldn't be the first Englishman I have beat in matchplay. At a former men's club in Walnut Creek, CA I beat an older bloke named Dennis twice in the annual match play championship. I believe both times were quarter-final matches.

We had a little argy-bargy on the 4th hole when he claimed I was away and I told him to bugger off. After some chin wagging we kept on.

Anyhow, the poor chap never knew what hit him and was a soggy old crag for days after. Word is he's still in his cups. Meanwhile, I was chuffed.

[lorenzoinoc]

You wouldn't be the first Englishman I have beat in matchplay. At a former men's club in Walnut Creek, CA I beat an older bloke named Dennis twice in the annual match play championship. I believe both times were quarter-final matches.

We had a little argy-bargy on the 4th hole when he claimed I was away and I told him to bugger off. After some chin wagging we kept on.

Anyhow, the poor chap never knew what hit him and was a soggy old crag for days after. Word is he's still in his cups. Meanwhile, I was chuffed.

An Englishman named Dennis, I think I've encountered that before. Sounds as though you were close to experiencing the violence inherent in the system.

At least you bothered to ask him his name. Although since he was English, he might have had it stenciled on his shirt with his family crest.

There's some lovely filth over here.

[jmtbkr]

Help, Help!! I'm being repressed!!!

[mongrel]

And watching you swing makes me know that you aren't one whose opinions about golf are really very useful.



So why can't you do it?



Funny... ...you used to claim it was 230 (and into a magical strong wind that somehow didn't move a single leaf on any of the trees).
And if you were so good a year and a half ago, why have you been telling us you've had to learn it all over again?

I remember that 230 too But I've got to give him a pass on that one since it looked like it was uphill to the green. Played like 230.

[daveperkins]

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!

Just saw this, thank you FD I did, hope you did too :-)

[poe4soul]

INCORRECTO!!

It is much preferable to tee the ball about 1/4 to 1/2 inch off the ground when hitting a 3 wood. Take your normal driver swing and watch that ball fly out there with maximum carry and roll. It's much easier to hit it off the tee that way. The WORSTO thing you can do is tee it low and try to hit down on it. That simply never works. What you end up doing is hitting a duck hook or a pathetic slice. Trust me, it's the only way to do it.

Well you just agreed with me. How is that incorrect? 1/4 to 1/2 inch is low. High would be with the equator of the ball at the top of the 3w like you would with a driver. I posted a sweeping swing not a descending blow....

[lorenzoinoc]

Well you just agreed with me. How is that incorrect? 1/4 to 1/2 inch is low. High would be with the equator of the ball at the top of the 3w like you would with a driver. I posted a sweeping swing not a descending blow....

You don't have to say different things to have a disagreement if you're around my famiglia.

[famousdavis]

Well you just agreed with me. How is that incorrect? 1/4 to 1/2 inch is low. High would be with the equator of the ball at the top of the 3w like you would with a driver. I posted a sweeping swing not a descending blow....

I most certainly did not agree with you, sir. 1/2 inch is not low for a 3 wood. As you know, a 3 wood has a very shallow face compared to that of a driver. In fact, most 3 woods are probably 1/3 the depth of a driver face. Therefore, teeing the ball up by a 1/2 inch would certainly be considered high for most 3 woods. 1/2 inch is probably the average tee height for most drivers back in the early 80's. Trust me, I know about this stuff. I'm a player.

[poe4soul]

I most certainly did not agree with you, sir. 1/2 inch is not low for a 3 wood. As you know, a 3 wood has a very shallow face compared to that of a driver. In fact, most 3 woods are probably 1/3 the depth of a driver face. Therefore, teeing the ball up by a 1/2 inch would certainly be considered high for most 3 woods. 1/2 inch is probably the average tee height for most drivers back in the early 80's. Trust me, I know about this stuff. I'm a player.

Are we in the early 80's? WTF?

Is 1/4" low? To me that's a perfect mid cut fairway lie. At least on the courses I play. Maybe those dirt tracts you're on it's high. 1/2" is high in my opinion but not too high for a 3w. Anything over that I would say is high.

[famousdavis]

Are we in the early 80's? WTF?

Is 1/4" low? To me that's a perfect mid cut fairway lie. At least on the courses I play. Maybe those dirt tracts you're on it's high. 1/2" is high in my opinion but not too high for a 3w. Anything over that I would say is high.

Speaking of tee height, did anyone else notice some of the names in this weeks PGA Tour Qualifying Tournament? Rich Beem, Boo Weekly, Steve Flesh, David Duval and Ty Tryon. Ty's name is very cool because it's the same as the star in Caddyshack and it's also very telling because Ty tied for last after the first day.

Boo Weekly is another big name who is trying to make it back on tour. Wasn't he in the Ryder Cup last year or the President's Cup the year before? How quickly the mighty fall. I got tired of looking at the tobacco running down his chin anyway. He even had a line of golf shirts.

Did John Daly not even make it to the last stage of qualifying school or does he simply rely on exemptions?

[mongrel]

Speaking of tee height, did anyone else notice some of the names in this weeks PGA Tour Qualifying Tournament? Rich Beem, Boo Weekly, Steve Flesh, David Duval and Ty Tryon. Ty's name is very cool because it's the same as the star in Caddyshack and it's also very telling because Ty tied for last after the first day.

Boo Weekly is another big name who is trying to make it back on tour. Wasn't he in the Ryder Cup last year or the President's Cup the year before? How quickly the mighty fall. I got tired of looking at the tobacco running down his chin anyway. He even had a line of golf shirts.

Did John Daly not even make it to the last stage of qualifying school or does he simply rely on exemptions?

Daly has enough morons who will follow him anywhere and buy anything he is fortunate enough to be paid to endorse that he can get by on a few sponsor exemptions and freak-show appearance money offered by perverse foreigners running tournaments in need of a clown to spice things up.

Ty Tyron is most notable for his bad acne when he first came on Tour. Boo Weekly brought a new class of people to the game: linguistic anthropologists.