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    Why Nicklaus will always be the greatest golfer of all time

    If you judge a player's lifetime performance based on how he played in the majors, Nicklaus has this one pretty much locked up. In my mind, Tiger doesn't have enough time remaining to catch Nicklaus in terms of performance in majors.

    Nicklaus has 18 wins, 19 second place finishes and 9 third place finishes. That's pretty unbelievable if you think about it.

    Tiger has 14 wins, 6 second place finishes and 3 third place finishes. Not nearly as good.

    It's easy to forget how good a golfer Jack Nicklaus was. Some may have forgotten but he had a legitimate chance to win the Masters when he was 58 years old. In the last round he was in contention.

    Tiger could catch Nicklaus in total majors won but I doubt he will do it. Even if he ties Jack, he won't come close in top 3 finishes.

    If you ever have a chance to watch old TV clips of Nicklaus winning a major you should watch. He was amazing at coming from behind to win. Watch some of the shots he would hit. He's every bit as talented as Tiger Woods and would probably beat him if they were the same age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    It's easy to forget how good a golfer Jack Nicklaus was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    If you judge a player's lifetime performance based on how he played in the majors, Nicklaus has this one pretty much locked up. In my mind, Tiger doesn't have enough time remaining to catch Nicklaus in terms of performance in majors.

    Nicklaus has 18 wins, 19 second place finishes and 9 third place finishes. That's pretty unbelievable if you think about it.

    Tiger has 14 wins, 6 second place finishes and 3 third place finishes. Not nearly as good.

    It's easy to forget how good a golfer Jack Nicklaus was. Some may have forgotten but he had a legitimate chance to win the Masters when he was 58 years old. In the last round he was in contention.

    Tiger could catch Nicklaus in total majors won but I doubt he will do it. Even if he ties Jack, he won't come close in top 3 finishes.

    If you ever have a chance to watch old TV clips of Nicklaus winning a major you should watch. He was amazing at coming from behind to win. Watch some of the shots he would hit. He's every bit as talented as Tiger Woods and would probably beat him if they were the same age.
    Nobody cares how many times you've gotten 2nd, 3rd, or missed the cut. Only losers count 2nd place. You play to win and anything else is a disappointment. Tiger is only 35 btw. Jack won a 3rd of his majors after turning 35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Nobody cares how many times you've gotten 2nd, 3rd, or missed the cut. Only losers count 2nd place. You play to win and anything else is a disappointment. Tiger is only 35 btw. Jack won a 3rd of his majors after turning 35.
    If they were tied at 18 majors then everyone would be looking at how many 2nd and 3rd place finishes they had. That's a fact and please have more tact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Nobody cares how many times you've gotten 2nd, 3rd, or missed the cut. Only losers count 2nd place. You play to win and anything else is a disappointment. Tiger is only 35 btw. Jack won a 3rd of his majors after turning 35.
    Jack didn't have multiple knee surgeries at 35. Tiger's body will fail him before he breaks Jack's record. Before too long his lower back or neck will be having problems due to the lack of stability in his left knee. These problems have a way of working up the kinetic chain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    It's easy to forget how good a golfer Jack Nicklaus was. Some may have forgotten but he had a legitimate chance to win the Masters when he was 58 years old. In the last round he was in contention..
    Interesting that the "other guy" to be in this position, to have an eight foot putt to win the British Open at age 59, was Nicklaus' toughest competitor, the guy who ran him hardest and beat him on his best days.

    Watson had a bad divorce and a bad hip. Give him health and happiness and no telling how good he would have been. But Nicklaus was certainly the most consistently good, far more consistent than Tiger even if you stop at 2008.
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    Jack Nicklaus prior to turning 36 had 59 wins and 14 majors.
    Tiger Woods prior to turning 36 has 71 wins and 14 majors...and probably played in less events.

    Tiger changed the world of golf. He changed the purses, the coverage, the ratings, the demographics, and the way courses were set up. No athlete since the beginning of time has ever done more to elevate their sport. You can't possibly compare what Nicklaus did in the country-club-short-knocking era to what Tiger has done in this modern era. Lets get real real. Nicklaus in his prime couldn't have hung with Tiger in his amateur years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    If you judge a player's lifetime performance based on how he played in the majors, Nicklaus has this one pretty much locked up. In my mind, Tiger doesn't have enough time remaining to catch Nicklaus in terms of performance in majors.

    Nicklaus has 18 wins, 19 second place finishes and 9 third place finishes. That's pretty unbelievable if you think about it.

    Tiger has 14 wins, 6 second place finishes and 3 third place finishes. Not nearly as good.

    It's easy to forget how good a golfer Jack Nicklaus was. Some may have forgotten but he had a legitimate chance to win the Masters when he was 58 years old. In the last round he was in contention.

    Tiger could catch Nicklaus in total majors won but I doubt he will do it. Even if he ties Jack, he won't come close in top 3 finishes.

    If you ever have a chance to watch old TV clips of Nicklaus winning a major you should watch. He was amazing at coming from behind to win. Watch some of the shots he would hit. He's every bit as talented as Tiger Woods and would probably beat him if they were the same age.
    Well stated, completely agree. Jack could have won more majors but in his 30-s began to devote time to course design and bus. ventures as prize money was unlikely to make one rich in those days. Then later in his career he turned it back on.

    Even if Tiger did break the record, Jack would have had alot more majors if he wanted them. But Tiger's spent his body chasing a record he's highly unlikely to break and at this point there ain't much left. He used to have a million dollar swing but his ten cent head did him in.
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    So fat Jack closed it out less than half the time he was in contention. Against much weaker fields than the rejects playong golf cause they sucked at everything else. Jack also went through periods when other guys were the dominant player. Watson, Trevino and Seve were dominant during Jacks time but Tiger has been far and away the best player since he hit the tour. Jack doesnt come close to how great tiger is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Jack Nicklaus prior to turning 36 had 59 wins and 14 majors.
    Tiger Woods prior to turning 36 has 71 wins and 14 majors...and probably played in less events.


    Tiger changed the world of golf. He changed the purses, the coverage, the ratings, the demographics, and the way courses were set up. No athlete since the beginning of time has ever done more to elevate their sport. You can't possibly compare what Nicklaus did in the country-club-short-knocking era to what Tiger has done in this modern era. Lets get real real. Nicklaus in his prime couldn't have hung with Tiger in his amateur years.
    You forgot to mention that Tiger has had way more poon than Jack, too. Anybody have the stats on that one?
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    Why don't teaching pros use Nicklaus' swing as a model? None of them in my experience teach students to swing or even setup like Nicklaus (or Player or Palmer) did. Nicklaus played the ball up near his front foot with every club--and then he launched himself forward to go get it. That is not modern teaching.

    Nicklaus himself said he never practiced putting, hated to do that-- yet his best wins came from fantastic long clutch putts (same as Tiger, BTW). So was it luck or just some sort of Psychokinesis? Could his mind make the ball go in? I saw an interview where Jim Flick how got those putts to roll in-- and Jack was as puzzled as anyone. He said he "felt" or "foresaw" that the ball would roll correctly and drop in, but I think they all do that.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Why don't teaching pros use Nicklaus' swing as a model? None of them in my experience teach students to swing or even setup like Nicklaus (or Player or Palmer) did. Nicklaus played the ball up near his front foot with every club--and then he launched himself forward to go get it. That is not modern teaching.

    Nicklaus himself said he never practiced putting, hated to do that-- yet his best wins came from fantastic long clutch putts (same as Tiger, BTW). So was it luck or just some sort of Psychokinesis? Could his mind make the ball go in? I saw an interview where Jim Flick how got those putts to roll in-- and Jack was as puzzled as anyone. He said he "felt" or "foresaw" that the ball would roll correctly and drop in, but I think they all do that.

    Larry
    Flick who you cite would disagree with everything you wrote. And he teaches Nicklaus' putting style.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Why don't teaching pros use Nicklaus' swing as a model? None of them in my experience teach students to swing or even setup like Nicklaus (or Player or Palmer) did. Nicklaus played the ball up near his front foot with every club--and then he launched himself forward to go get it. That is not modern teaching.

    Nicklaus himself said he never practiced putting, hated to do that-- yet his best wins came from fantastic long clutch putts (same as Tiger, BTW). So was it luck or just some sort of Psychokinesis? Could his mind make the ball go in? I saw an interview where Jim Flick how got those putts to roll in-- and Jack was as puzzled as anyone. He said he "felt" or "foresaw" that the ball would roll correctly and drop in, but I think they all do that.

    Larry
    Back in the old days the greens were nowhere near what they are now. Much slower and a lot bumpier. Watch some old black and white film they show on Golf Channel during the winter like Shell Wonderful World of Golf and you'll see that almost all of them used a short pop-putt stroke. You could give the ball a good whack and it would roll past two or three feet at most. Not a one of them had that long, flowing Crenshaw-style until the Tour started shaving the greens down to the nubs. Even Augusta's greens looked like they ran about 7-9 when you watch Master's footage from the '60's and '70's. I love slow greens and use that old pop stroke on them when I am fortunate enough to find them. Everyone else gripes about the speed. My old man built a green on our farm, bent grass, and one of my jobs was to roll and cut it. We could get that thing up to 12-15 in the heart of the summer and that's where I learned to putt. And since the courses we played usually had very slow greens, I learned to pop-putt them too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    No athlete since the beginning of time has ever done more to elevate their sport. You can't possibly compare what Nicklaus did in the country-club-short-knocking era to what Tiger has done in this modern era. .
    what you're talking about is money, which is broadcasting, which is technology, which is a lucky accident for Tiger to be born in the right era to "elevate his sport". Nicklaus was one of the ones that helped televise golf, equally important but not as big time or big money as Tiger's subsequent elevation. Really, Palmer did more than anyone to "elevate the sport". Saved the British Open from disappearing, made countryclub golf a blue collar sport, brought it into the TV age, etc. Tiger's change was one of degree. The Palmer/Nicklaus era was a full culture shift and a technological embrace because of it. Golf before Palmer was Dr. Cary Middlecoff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Why don't teaching pros use Nicklaus' swing as a model? None of them in my experience teach students to swing or even setup like Nicklaus (or Player or Palmer) did. Nicklaus played the ball up near his front foot with every club--and then he launched himself forward to go get it. That is not modern teaching.

    Nicklaus himself said he never practiced putting, hated to do that-- yet his best wins came from fantastic long clutch putts (same as Tiger, BTW). So was it luck or just some sort of Psychokinesis? Could his mind make the ball go in? I saw an interview where Jim Flick how got those putts to roll in-- and Jack was as puzzled as anyone. He said he "felt" or "foresaw" that the ball would roll correctly and drop in, but I think they all do that.

    Larry
    Larry, I have a Jack Nicklaus book from the late 70's that is narrated by Jack. He has stated many times that when he was younger he would spend hours and hours on the putting green until he couldn't see the cup anymore because of darkness. When he was in high school he would play 36 holes and then do putting competitions with his buddies for hours on end. Basically, he played golf all day long when he was younger and cared about little else.

    If you practice and play that much at a younger age you don't need to practice as much when you get older. Plus, the one unique thing about Nicklaus is that he basically never changed his swing or his putting stroke.

    His swing is indeed the opposite of the modern golf swing, with the reverse C finish, shallow divot and front ball position. However, it's obviously very effective at hitting long iron shots because nobody in the history of the game was better at hitting long irons than Nicklaus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Larry, I have a Jack Nicklaus book from the late 70's that is narrated by Jack. He has stated many times that when he was younger he would spend hours and hours on the putting green until he couldn't see the cup anymore because of darkness. When he was in high school he would play 36 holes and then do putting competitions with his buddies for hours on end. Basically, he played golf all day long when he was younger and cared about little else.

    If you practice and play that much at a younger age you don't need to practice as much when you get older. Plus, the one unique thing about Nicklaus is that he basically never changed his swing or his putting stroke.

    His swing is indeed the opposite of the modern golf swing, with the reverse C finish, shallow divot and front ball position. However, it's obviously very effective at hitting long iron shots because nobody in the history of the game was better at hitting long irons than Nicklaus.
    Nicklaus is nowhere near the best long iron player. Guys like Weiskopf and Irwin would.make Jack look like a hacker in comparison. More recently tiger and Norman were playing a.different game to Jack with tegards to long irons.Jack had only one thing going for him that got him.those majors, steaky putting. The rest of his game was good but a.hot putter is what got him the majors.
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    Mongrel makes a vey gpod point about greens. Jacl ws playing greens which were slower and bmpier than average fairways these days. He built his record from playing on slow greens and feasting on weal fields. If he came along now je wouldnt make the.nation.wide
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Why don't teaching pros use Nicklaus' swing as a model? None of them in my experience teach students to swing or even setup like Nicklaus (or Player or Palmer) did. Nicklaus played the ball up near his front foot with every club--and then he launched himself forward to go get it. That is not modern teaching.
    Neither is Furyk...
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    Jim Flick's interview with Jack is probably on Youtube.

    It was a TGC playing lesson I think.

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    When you have different era's of time, there are just too many variables and issues that tend to make comparisons difficult. Jack was the best in his era, Tiger the best in his. Neither can really be touted as the best of all time, and no matter what benchmarks you use.

    Just to begin the comparison, you would also need to include several other golfers as well, and therein lies the problem,,,4-5 different eras and maybe 3-4 more other golfers. I seriously doubt you would ever reach a consensus on who was the best, but its much easier if you divide history into the various eras, or even decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Mongrel makes a vey gpod point about greens. Jacl ws playing greens which were slower and bmpier than average fairways these days. He built his record from playing on slow greens and feasting on weal fields. If he came along now je wouldnt make the.nation.wide
    Nice troll . . . . . . . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Nicklaus is nowhere near the best long iron player. Guys like Weiskopf and Irwin would.make Jack look like a hacker in comparison. More recently tiger and Norman were playing a.different game to Jack with tegards to long irons.Jack had only one thing going for him that got him.those majors, steaky putting. The rest of his game was good but a.hot putter is what got him the majors.
    He didn't have to be the best long iron player because he didn't need them as often as most of the others since he hit his driver so freaking high and far. When I was a young teen in the early 1960's I watched him up close and personal on several occasions at a regular tour stop in the Philadelphia suburbs (The IVB Classic). Jack would carry his high faded drives where Palmer's low hooks would run out. Gary Player would hit his four wood from 205 and then Jack would be hitting 8 iron from 150. Besides a frew freaks like George Bayer who could pound it 350 or a good strike, Jack was the longest out there for quite a while. His often overlooked skill was distance control with irons. He may have been left or right but he was usually about hole-high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveperkins View Post
    what you're talking about is money, which is broadcasting, which is technology, which is a lucky accident for Tiger to be born in the right era to "elevate his sport". Nicklaus was one of the ones that helped televise golf, equally important but not as big time or big money as Tiger's subsequent elevation. Really, Palmer did more than anyone to "elevate the sport". Saved the British Open from disappearing, made countryclub golf a blue collar sport, brought it into the TV age, etc. Tiger's change was one of degree. The Palmer/Nicklaus era was a full culture shift and a technological embrace because of it. Golf before Palmer was Dr. Cary Middlecoff.
    They have been putting PGA golf on TV since at least the 50s.

    Tiger is actually bigger and more important than the rest of the PGA combined. If Tiger started the "Tiger Woods Tour" tomorrow and played in all of its tournaments, that tour would destroy any PGA event it went up against. The ratings for a PGA tournament with Tiger are usually triple what a PGA tournament without Tiger draws...That means Tiger is twice as valuable as the rest of the tour players combined. No other player has ever come close to having that big of an effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Nicklaus is nowhere near the best long iron player. Guys like Weiskopf and Irwin would.make Jack look like a hacker in comparison. More recently tiger and Norman were playing a.different game to Jack with tegards to long irons.Jack had only one thing going for him that got him.those majors, steaky putting. The rest of his game was good but a.hot putter is what got him the majors.
    Hale Irwin? Hale Irwin could barely hit a 3 iron 180 yards on his best day. Weiskopf is the biggest jerk on the planet and Jack took away every chance he ever had at winning a major. Weiskopf is owned by Jack Nicklaus. Just like Venturi is owned by Palmer.

    The biggest ownership of all time is Faldo vs. Norman. Faldo still has Norman's balls in a formaldyhide jar at home. (sp?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    They have been putting PGA golf on TV since at least the 50s.

    Tiger is actually bigger and more important than the rest of the PGA combined. If Tiger started the "Tiger Woods Tour" tomorrow and played in all of its tournaments, that tour would destroy any PGA event it went up against. The ratings for a PGA tournament with Tiger are usually triple what a PGA tournament without Tiger draws...That means Tiger is twice as valuable as the rest of the tour players combined. No other player has ever come close to having that big of an effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    Now that's a smilie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Mongrel makes a vey gpod point about greens. Jacl ws playing greens which were slower and bmpier than average fairways these days. He built his record from playing on slow greens and feasting on weal fields. If he came along now je wouldnt make the.nation.wide
    Dammit, still no bites. You may have to go with Nicklaus routinely backed over nuns with his car, or something like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    He didn't have to be the best long iron player because he didn't need them as often as most of the others since he hit his driver so freaking high and far. When I was a young teen in the early 1960's I watched him up close and personal on several occasions at a regular tour stop in the Philadelphia suburbs (The IVB Classic). Jack would carry his high faded drives where Palmer's low hooks would run out. Gary Player would hit his four wood from 205 and then Jack would be hitting 8 iron from 150. Besides a frew freaks like George Bayer who could pound it 350 or a good strike, Jack was the longest out there for quite a while. His often overlooked skill was distance control with irons. He may have been left or right but he was usually about hole-high.
    In that same playing lesson with Jim Flick, he talked about greenside recoveries. He said he had never owned a LW, didn't know how to do a flop shot. He used SW for such shots. But Flick said he wasn't really good at that eiher because Nicklaus got so little practice at recovering--he mostly hit the greens from WAY out on the fairway. He was accurate with long irons.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    In that same playing lesson with Jim Flick, he talked about greenside recoveries. He said he had never owned a LW, didn't know how to do a flop shot. He used SW for such shots. But Flick said he wasn't really good at that eiher because Nicklaus got so little practice at recovering--he mostly hit the greens from WAY out on the fairway. He was accurate with long irons.

    Larry
    None of them carried lob wedges because the greens were mostly soft and slow and the balata balls they played you could back up with a half-pitch 7 iron. For Nicklaus, a shot WAY out on the fairway was maybe 180 max. A full 6, smooth 5, or jump on a 7. Player smooths his 4 wood. Its a wonder guys didn't make fun of Player taking his fairway woods from mid iron range then like they do today with hybrid-toting pros like KJ, YE and that little Hobbit from S. Africa, Tim Clark. I hope Clark comes back next year in good health because he's one of my favorites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    None of them carried lob wedges because the greens were mostly soft and slow and the balata balls they played you could back up with a half-pitch 7 iron. For Nicklaus, a shot WAY out on the fairway was maybe 180 max. A full 6, smooth 5, or jump on a 7. Player smooths his 4 wood. Its a wonder guys didn't make fun of Player taking his fairway woods from mid iron range then like they do today with hybrid-toting pros like KJ, YE and that little Hobbit from S. Africa, Tim Clark. I hope Clark comes back next year in good health because he's one of my favorites.
    None of the players used lob wedges in the 60's and 70's so the point is moot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    None of the players used lob wedges in the 60's and 70's so the point is moot.
    Tiger woods invented the flop shot...and he could do it with a 2 iron if he wanted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger woods invented the flop shot...and he could do it with a 2 iron if he wanted.
    I'm a huge fan of Tiger Woods and one of his biggest supporters on this forum. However, until he has 19 majors he should never be considered as good as Jack Nicklaus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger woods invented the flop shot...and he could do it with a 2 iron if he wanted.
    He's also perfected the 3w sky ball with his new swing. Too funny to watch a pro sky a ball off the tee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger woods invented the flop shot...and he could do it with a 2 iron if he wanted.
    I was hitting flop shots with sand wedge before Tiger finished first grade. My old man taught me that shot around 1958. Of course you had to have a sand wedge with as little bounce as possible and back then that meant grinding some of the sole. I still have one of the R-90's with the faux wood grain metal shafts that he ground down the sole on. I can open it up almost 45*, play the ball right next to the hosel, and hit it almost straight up off concrete. But it really sucks on full swings so I don't bag it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul View Post
    He's also perfected the 3w sky ball with his new swing. Too funny to watch a pro sky a ball off the tee.
    Sounds like you have a lot of experience with the 3W sky ball. How silly is that to bring up one bad shot he hit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Sounds like you have a lot of experience with the 3W sky ball. How silly is that to bring up one bad shot he hit?
    He just hit another one in his last tournament. He's giving me a lot of experience watching a sky ball being hit. (especially since they show it over and over.) So, yes, you are right. LOL!
    Last edited by poe4soul; 12-14-2011 at 12:45 PM.

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    Tigers latest award.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger woods invented the flop shot...and he could do it with a 2 iron if he wanted.
    Are we talking about Tiger Woods here or Chuck Norris?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    None of them carried lob wedges because the greens were mostly soft and slow and the balata balls they played you could back up with a half-pitch 7 iron. For Nicklaus, a shot WAY out on the fairway was maybe 180 max. A full 6, smooth 5, or jump on a 7. Player smooths his 4 wood. Its a wonder guys didn't make fun of Player taking his fairway woods from mid iron range then like they do today with hybrid-toting pros like KJ, YE and that little Hobbit from S. Africa, Tim Clark. I hope Clark comes back next year in good health because he's one of my favorites.
    Here is the answer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpGNICXEfUg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Do you even bother reading other people's posts before you reply, Larry? Or is everything just another opportunity to stroke your own ego in some way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    None of them carried lob wedges because the greens were mostly soft and slow and the balata balls they played you could back up with a half-pitch 7 iron. For Nicklaus, a shot WAY out on the fairway was maybe 180 max. A full 6, smooth 5, or jump on a 7. Player smooths his 4 wood. Its a wonder guys didn't make fun of Player taking his fairway woods from mid iron range then like they do today with hybrid-toting pros like KJ, YE and that little Hobbit from S. Africa, Tim Clark. I hope Clark comes back next year in good health because he's one of my favorites.
    I suspect Nicklaus would have hit a recovery shot with 8i into a greenside mound-- and plan for it to trickle over onto the green, the kind of golf played by the Scots.

    He won all over the world in every weather condition. But the primary reason we know his name is fantastic putting, same as Tiger. Those two rolled in improbable putts to win majors. AND, they both had that icy cool something that made their rivals fade while they just got better during the last few holes of a major. How many times did we see Els and VJ and others with legitimate opportunities-- blow it with inexplicable misses. It was like they KNEW they were not worthy-- and should find a way to let the big dog eat. (as Trevino said about Nicklaus)

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    They have been putting PGA golf on TV since at least the 50s.

    Tiger is actually bigger and more important than the rest of the PGA combined. If Tiger started the "Tiger Woods Tour" tomorrow and played in all of its tournaments, that tour would destroy any PGA event it went up against. The ratings for a PGA tournament with Tiger are usually triple what a PGA tournament without Tiger draws...That means Tiger is twice as valuable as the rest of the tour players combined. No other player has ever come close to having that big of an effect.
    Ever heard of Arnie's Army? TV golf is one thing. Arnie made it PAY. And so did jack, because he dethroned Arnie and everyone hated him for it. I still think Arnie making blueblood country club Doctor Cary Middlecoff golf into a general blue collar public sport is the biggest thing to happen to golf. Beer and golf didn't go together until Arnie. And he chased some groupies in his day, albeit probably without Ambien in his system.

    They loved Arnie so much, nobody noticed that the last major he won was in 1964.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alangbaker View Post
    Do you even bother reading other people's posts before you reply, Larry? Or is everything just another opportunity to stroke your own ego in some way?
    Everyone writes about the premise of the thread. You write about me. Alan, we feel sorry for you, we realize you feel wounded or some sort of sicko need to get even or something-- but why spoil this for everyone? Please! Just slink away and let us talk about golf. Please!

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveperkins View Post
    Ever heard of Arnie's Army? TV golf is one thing. Arnie made it PAY. And so did jack, because he dethroned Arnie and everyone hated him for it. I still think Arnie making blueblood country club Doctor Cary Middlecoff golf into a general blue collar public sport is the biggest thing to happen to golf. Beer and golf didn't go together until Arnie. And he chased some groupies in his day, albeit probably without Ambien in his system.

    They loved Arnie so much, nobody noticed that the last major he won was in 1964.
    I remember the first tournament I went to when Nicklaus was about 22 and a pudgey thick kid with a crewcut and perrenial scowl. He reminded me of the Nazis on the TV shows. Arnie was in his heyday and everyone around me including my father and uncles were routing for him and maing nasty comments about Nicklaus. I guess I was about 13 or so and thought Nicklaus was cool. I thought Palmer was cool too but remember my father and others who idolized Hogan never rooting against Arnie and for Hogan the way they did when Nicklaus came on the scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Larry, in the '80's many of us bagged 1 irons at the two clubs I belonged to. We mostly hit them off the tee on tight par 4's and on par 5 approaches where there was no trouble if you caught it thin. So Nicklaus hit a great shot with his 1 iron. So did lots of pros. There is that real short par 3 at Pebble--forget the hole #-- that one year nobody could hit due to the high winds. Snead played it the same way all four rounds...with a putter off the tee down the cart path to a spot right in front of the green where he would pitch it to tap in distance for a par. All four rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Larry, in the '80's many of us bagged 1 irons at the two clubs I belonged to. We mostly hit them off the tee on tight par 4's and on par 5 approaches where there was no trouble if you caught it thin. So Nicklaus hit a great shot with his 1 iron. So did lots of pros. There is that real short par 3 at Pebble--forget the hole #-- that one year nobody could hit due to the high winds. Snead played it the same way all four rounds...with a putter off the tee down the cart path to a spot right in front of the green where he would pitch it to tap in distance for a par. All four rounds.
    The Director of Golf at my club played in South Texas, where Hogan and Nelson and Trevino learned. He talked about playing against 50 mph winds-- on hardpan fairways after the grass had died from lack of water! They learned to hit a long iron in what Tiger today calls "stingers" off their back foot with hands far forward. That is a lost art here in S. California. Nobody carries any iron over 5i-- because we simply never encounter wind.

    I really enjoy non-standard golf. As an engineer I love trying to invent a stance and a swing and a ball flight for an unusual situation. Not quite what we practice on the range.

    Forget that, I will be playing Indian Wells CC later this weekend. in Palm Springs. No wind, beautiful mature trees, course lined with very nice homes that were built 30 years ago when Desi Arnez and friends started the club. Lots of history there, the pictures on the walls indicate the touring pros played there. It has a beautiful clubhouse and great member restaurant for drinks and dinner after... which may be more important than the golf-- at least to my wife! ha

    Later

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    When i was a kid 25 years ago every bloke and his dog had 2 and 1 irons. There were no specialty wedges so there was space at the other end. What people here fail to realise is that the jacked up lofts today meanthe old 1 iron is about the same as hitting a modern 3 iron. No big deal. Jack would struggle to get tigers 2 iron off the ground. I really find it hard to believe there is even an argument about this. Jack played a different game to the pros today, the game is so advanced compared to 30 years ago. It would be like saying jesse owens would beat usain bolt, despite the fact owens times wouldnt win a high school meet.
    Last edited by Not a hacker; 12-14-2011 at 06:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    The Director of Golf at my club played in South Texas, where Hogan and Nelson and Trevino learned. He talked about playing against 50 mph winds-- on hardpan fairways after the grass had died from lack of water! They learned to hit a long iron in what Tiger today calls "stingers" off their back foot with hands far forward. That is a lost art here in S. California. Nobody carries any iron over 5i-- because we simply never encounter wind.

    I really enjoy non-standard golf. As an engineer I love trying to invent a stance and a swing and a ball flight for an unusual situation. Not quite what we practice on the range.

    Forget that, I will be playing Indian Wells CC later this weekend. in Palm Springs. No wind, beautiful mature trees, course lined with very nice homes that were built 30 years ago when Desi Arnez and friends started the club. Lots of history there, the pictures on the walls indicate the touring pros played there. It has a beautiful clubhouse and great member restaurant for drinks and dinner after... which may be more important than the golf-- at least to my wife! ha

    Later
    I have an idea, Larry, let's switch locations. You can come out here and live in Oklahoma where it is windy 300 days out of the year and I'll go live in California where the weather is perfect. What do you say?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    When i was a kid 25 years ago every bloke and his dog had 2 and 1 irons. There were no specialty wedges so there was space at the other end. What people here fail to realise is that the jacked up lofts today meanthe old 1 iron is about the same as hitting a modern 3 iron. No big deal. Jack would struggle to get tigers 2 iron off the ground. I really find it hard to believe there is even an argument about this. Jack played a different game to the pros today, the game is so advanced compared to 30 years ago. It would be like saying jesse owens would beat usain bolt, despite the fact owens times wouldnt win a high school meet.
    The old farts have been quoted time and time again in one interview after another that the technology of the golf equipment today makes the game much easier to play than what they had to play whenever they were competing. This in itself makes Jack's feats that much more impressive than Tiger's. You lose this debate, NAH. Just humbly bow your head in disgrace and accept the fact that you have worshiped the wrong god.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    The old farts have been quoted time and time again in one interview after another that the technology of the golf equipment today makes the game much easier to play than what they had to play whenever they were competing. This in itself makes Jack's feats that much more impressive than Tiger's. You lose this debate, NAH. Just humbly bow your head in disgrace and accept the fact that you have worshiped the wrong god.
    Can you imagine Tiger trying to hit a persimmon driver?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    Can you imagine Tiger trying to hit a persimmon driver?
    You probably wouldn't have to imagine. Tiger started playin real young so there's a good chance his early golf pre dates metal woods. Judging by the way he used to smoke his Cobra steel head driver, I imagine he would hit the persimmon driver just fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    The old farts have been quoted time and time again in one interview after another that the technology of the golf equipment today makes the game much easier to play than what they had to play whenever they were competing. This in itself makes Jack's feats that much more impressive than Tiger's. You lose this debate, NAH. Just humbly bow your head in disgrace and accept the fact that you have worshiped the wrong god.
    All the technology has done is remove talent from the equation and allowed average ball strikers to compete with the elite ball strikers. Instead of Nickalus' day when only the talented ball strikers could compete on tour, Tiger has had to face guys who wouldn't be fit to tie his shoelaces on the driving range, but who can putt the dots off the ball and take advantage of technology to cover their deficiencies in the rest of the game. Do you remember how much further Tiger used to hit his Cobra driver than the rest of the field before Titanium drivers came along? It was ridiculous how far he hit that thing. If the tour suddenly reverted back to the equipment they used in Jack's day, Tiger would be even more dominant than he has been in the modern world. Technology has hurt Tiger, not helped him. Tiger would own Jack in any era.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Everyone writes about the premise of the thread. You write about me. Alan, we feel sorry for you, we realize you feel wounded or some sort of sicko need to get even or something-- but why spoil this for everyone? Please! Just slink away and let us talk about golf. Please!
    I talk about golf all the time.

    I just feel the most important thing I can do is to clear up the most egregious errors made about how to swing the club.

    It's not my fault that you make all of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    The Director of Golf at my club played in South Texas, where Hogan and Nelson and Trevino learned. He talked about playing against 50 mph winds-- on hardpan fairways after the grass had died from lack of water! They learned to hit a long iron in what Tiger today calls "stingers" off their back foot with hands far forward. That is a lost art here in S. California. Nobody carries any iron over 5i-- because we simply never encounter wind.
    "Nobody", Larry? Or nobody who claims to understand the golf swing but is actually an 18+ hack?

    I really enjoy non-standard golf. As an engineer I love trying to invent a stance and a swing and a ball flight for an unusual situation. Not quite what we practice on the range.
    Funny. You've also claimed that that kind of "recovery" golf bores you and you're only interested in fairways and greens...
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    I have come to the conclusion that all you Jack fans are just crackerarses who cant accept a coloured boy being better than your man. You racists are obviously in denial about how great tiger is.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Wasnt it easier to cheat back then?as well.....not calling the old guys cheats,but I have read a few strange things? Today every player's ball is on camera throughout their round.
    ----------------------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Wasnt it easier to cheat back then?as well.....not calling the old guys cheats,but I have read a few strange things? Today every player's ball is on camera throughout their round.
    But I'm sure Jack never had a mob of sycophants move a boulder (loose impediment) for him.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Nicklaus is nowhere near the best long iron player. Guys like Weiskopf and Irwin would.make Jack look like a hacker in comparison. More recently tiger and Norman were playing a.different game to Jack with tegards to long irons.Jack had only one thing going for him that got him.those majors, steaky putting. The rest of his game was good but a.hot putter is what got him the majors.
    He must be the greatest putter (he isn't by the way) of all time then? Or did he just get lucky and have a good putting week all those majors and tournaments he won?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc View Post
    Can you imagine Tiger trying to hit a persimmon driver?
    Tiger is the Picasso of golf. He is the finest shot making artist to ever walk the planet. He grew up with the ability to attack a pin from any angle, and the skill to flight the ball through windows that other players couldn't even dream of.

    Tiger has always been one of the purest ball strikers to ever play. Growing up, Tiger could create all kinds of shots by making very minimal changes to his swing and setup. The balls & equipment used to respond well to even the smallest tweaks.

    Then, low spinning balls, perimeter weighted clubs, and high MOI clubs made it on to the scene. It pretty much killed shot making. Now, everyone is hitting the ball long and straight...as a result the tour has turned into a bunch of non-creative drones that just aim down the center for every shot. Winning on tour has become a joke...luck plays a bigger factor than skill these days. Just look at how untalented most of the Major winners have been lately.

    Tiger has remained a creative shot maker, but the equipment calls for major setup adjustments in order to get the ball to bend and fly the way he wants it to. These major adjustments have been the driving force behinds Tiger's inconsistencies.

    If everyone on tour went back to persimmon woods and wound balls, Tiger would win 90% of his tournaments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger is the Picasso of golf. He is the finest shot making artist to ever walk the planet. He grew up with the ability to attack a pin from any angle, and the skill to flight the ball through windows that other players couldn't even dream of.

    Tiger has always been one of the purest ball strikers to ever play. Growing up, Tiger could create all kinds of shots by making very minimal changes to his swing and setup. The balls & equipment used to respond well to even the smallest tweaks.

    Then, low spinning balls, perimeter weighted clubs, and high MOI clubs made it on to the scene. It pretty much killed shot making. Now, everyone is hitting the ball long and straight...as a result the tour has turned into a bunch of non-creative drones that just aim down the center for every shot. Winning on tour has become a joke...luck plays a bigger factor than skill these days. Just look at how untalented most of the Major winners have been lately.

    Tiger has remained a creative shot maker, but the equipment calls for major setup adjustments in order to get the ball to bend and fly the way he wants it to. These major adjustments have been the driving force behinds Tiger's inconsistencies.

    If everyone on tour went back to persimmon woods and wound balls, Tiger would win 90% of his tournaments.
    Purist, Nicklaus was not a shot-making artist. In fact, he was known to be the opposite. He hit a high fade for just about every single shot. In fact, he had to practice for Augusta specifically to get a draw back into his game.

    For those who don't think Tiger could hit a persimmon, he used to practice with one. There was an article in Golf Digest where he talked about it.

    Nicklaus was not a great putter, despite what people think. He made some great putts in majors but overall he was just above average. His driving and irons were what made him great. He had better concentration than anyone.

    Tom Kite had the thickest glasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Purist, Nicklaus was not a shot-making artist. In fact, he was known to be the opposite. He hit a high fade for just about every single shot. In fact, he had to practice for Augusta specifically to get a draw back into his game.

    For those who don't think Tiger could hit a persimmon, he used to practice with one. There was an article in Golf Digest where he talked about it.

    Nicklaus was not a great putter, despite what people think. He made some great putts in majors but overall he was just above average. His driving and irons were what made him great. He had better concentration than anyone.

    Tom Kite had the thickest glasses.
    Tiger's never been a good driver of the ball. Look at his early pro tournaments, US Amateurs, etc. It's precisely why he's made so many swing changes. It wasn't for his irons.

    Practicing with something hardly equals proficiency. In pro competition he'd be a car wreck with it. Persimmons are a whole lot less effective than titanium 460-s which is why the latter is in use and the former isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    Tiger is the Picasso of golf. He is the finest shot making artist to ever walk the planet. He grew up with the ability to attack a pin from any angle, and the skill to flight the ball through windows that other players couldn't even dream of.

    Tiger has always been one of the purest ball strikers to ever play. Growing up, Tiger could create all kinds of shots by making very minimal changes to his swing and setup. The balls & equipment used to respond well to even the smallest tweaks.

    Then, low spinning balls, perimeter weighted clubs, and high MOI clubs made it on to the scene. It pretty much killed shot making. Now, everyone is hitting the ball long and straight...as a result the tour has turned into a bunch of non-creative drones that just aim down the center for every shot. Winning on tour has become a joke...luck plays a bigger factor than skill these days. Just look at how untalented most of the Major winners have been lately.

    Tiger has remained a creative shot maker, but the equipment calls for major setup adjustments in order to get the ball to bend and fly the way he wants it to. These major adjustments have been the driving force behinds Tiger's inconsistencies.

    If everyone on tour went back to persimmon woods and wound balls, Tiger would win 90% of his tournaments.
    He had to learn to be creative because his main mode of attack has been to "bomb and gouge."

    Mickelson is and has always been a better shotmaker than Tiger, but it was Tiger's putting that saved him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist View Post
    If everyone on tour went back to persimmon woods and wound balls, Tiger would win 90% of his tournaments.
    No way. Because if the Tour did that, all the courses on Tour would be played from the middle or up tees turning the 7,300 yard behemoths into the 6,100 yard *****cats of yesteryear. That would bring all the short-knockers with deft short games even closer to the bombers. Tiger's 265 yard 2 iron stinger would turn into a 225 yard cruise missile. Luke Donald and Zach Johnson would dominate the majors for a decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    No way. Because if the Tour did that, all the courses on Tour would be played from the middle or up tees turning the 7,300 yard behemoths into the 6,100 yard *****cats of yesteryear. That would bring all the short-knockers with deft short games even closer to the bombers. Tiger's 265 yard 2 iron stinger would turn into a 225 yard cruise missile. Luke Donald and Zach Johnson would dominate the majors for a decade.
    No doubt... those short knockers with fabulous short games like ZJ would eat Tiger alive... Even Tiger admitted that on TV at the last Chevron Tourney...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    No way. Because if the Tour did that, all the courses on Tour would be played from the middle or up tees turning the 7,300 yard behemoths into the 6,100 yard *****cats of yesteryear. That would bring all the short-knockers with deft short games even closer to the bombers. Tiger's 265 yard 2 iron stinger would turn into a 225 yard cruise missile. Luke Donald and Zach Johnson would dominate the majors for a decade.
    I would like to express MY HEART-FELT GRATITUDE to the moderator who turned my compound description of golf courses that was intended to be synonimous with "easy" or "creampuff". For those curious enough to wonder what lies behind the five asterisks, I'll reveal that it is slang for "cat" and the alternative slang meaning referring to female genitalia was certainly neither intended nor indicated by the context in which it was written. Your timely action has saved the tender sensibilities of those treading in the dangerous waters of GR Forums including (God forbid!) and CHILDREN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    I have an idea, Larry, let's switch locations. You can come out here and live in Oklahoma where it is windy 300 days out of the year and I'll go live in California where the weather is perfect. What do you say?
    Yeah, right! A few of my high school classmates live in Oklahoma and try to play golf in that "weather!" They think an opportunity to travel to Clovis, NM (my home town) is like going to Florida, ha. I lived near Oklahoma several years in the 60s while attending KU. I got the opportunity to enjoy 100 degrees with 100% humidity and then freezing rain bringing down phone wires. I rode an old Harley 61 I bought in a basket, no windshield, and got to enjoy June Bugs hitting my face-- like being hit with a fist!

    There is a very good reason I and the other lucky millions live here in S. California, and it is NOT the politics or the hoards of illegals from Mexico.

    We are having a "chilly" spell right now, so it will be noon before the temperatures hit 60+. We never have wind and seldom more than a few clouds. Extremely low humidity and few bugs! Mosquitos like moisture and we don't do moisture. We are SOOO glad that most loud and obnoxious NYers think Florida is paradise. If they ever saw this there would be even more of them in La Jolla! ha

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I would like to express MY HEART-FELT GRATITUDE to the moderator who turned my compound description of golf courses that was intended to be synonimous with "easy" or "creampuff". For those curious enough to wonder what lies behind the five asterisks, I'll reveal that it is slang for "cat" and the alternative slang meaning referring to female genitalia was certainly neither intended nor indicated by the context in which it was written. Your timely action has saved the tender sensibilities of those treading in the dangerous waters of GR Forums including (God forbid!) and CHILDREN.
    You mean they would censor out the name of a James Bond movie heroine?

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    I have come to the conclusion that all you Jack fans are just crackerarses who cant accept a coloured boy being better than your man. You racists are obviously in denial about how great tiger is.
    I asked this question at the range where I take lessons. My pro and the others agreed unanimously that Jack Nicklaus was the greatest golfer of all time--at least as good as Tiger at his best. Nicklaus was head and shoulders better that the others of his day because he alone was a superb athlete, a 4-sport letterman in high school. He could generate very high clubhead speed and the others couldn't ---with the exception of Jim Dent and a few others.

    The teaching pros said they don't teach Nicklaus's swing because almost no student amateur is athletic enough to make his move. He could play the ball up near his front foot and make a foot-long divot in front of the ball with a ONE-iron.

    Jack Nicklaus said he could have hit it much further but the balls of that day were erratic. Two seemingly identical balls could fly either straight or cross two fairways with the same swing. So he said he had to back off to keep it in play in tournaments.

    I wish they had done long drive demonstrations before tournaments like they did in Bobby Jones day. Nicklaus would have been a contender--

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    You mean they would censor out the name of a James Bond movie heroine?

    Larry
    Sorry, Larryt, but the movie heroine was Asterisk Galore, The word that got me the stars was in the title of a charming little 1965 movie starrring the brilliant Peter Sellers with the title song made popular world-wide by the singer and actor-who-stole-the-entire-screen in the Clinton-era film classic, "Mars Attacks". "What's new, Asterisk? Wo oh wo oh wo oh...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Sorry, Larryt, but the movie heroine was Asterisk Galore, The word that got me the stars was in the title of a charming little 1965 movie starrring the brilliant Peter Sellers with the title song made popular world-wide by the singer and actor-who-stole-the-entire-screen in the Clinton-era film classic, "Mars Attacks". "What's new, Asterisk? Wo oh wo oh wo oh...."
    Not to be confused with the Austin Power's character Alotta Fagina.
    The views expressed by The Purist do not necessarily represent the views of The Purist. Any posts by the Purist should not be relied upon for truth or accuracy, and should be viewed at your own risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I would like to express MY HEART-FELT GRATITUDE to the moderator who turned my compound description of golf courses that was intended to be synonimous with "easy" or "creampuff". For those curious enough to wonder what lies behind the five asterisks, I'll reveal that it is slang for "cat" and the alternative slang meaning referring to female genitalia was certainly neither intended nor indicated by the context in which it was written. Your timely action has saved the tender sensibilities of those treading in the dangerous waters of GR Forums including (God forbid!) and CHILDREN.
    Trick for young players Mongrel

    Here are a few spelling alternatives to help you beat the censors next time you need to use that adjective:

    p_ussy
    p*ssy
    p.ussy
    pu$$y
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    Trick for young players Mongrel

    Here are a few spelling alternatives to help you beat the censors next time you need to use that adjective:

    p_ussy
    p*ssy
    p.ussy
    pu$$y
    Much obliged for the tips, Kiwi. I'll see if I c*nt work one of them in next time the need for the word is indicated. Cheers.

  73. #73
    Will Nicklaus always be The greatest golfer? Hardly. It's probably not going to be Tiger either. Look, only one black guy has ever attempted golf and he won 14 majors. He was also married with kids and banging skanks at a retired Micheal Jordan rate....and he is only half black.

    In the near future, an inner city kid built like Cam Newton or Lebron James is gonna say, "Fukk getting tackled and all that running around, getting yelled at by coaches, and having to rely on teammates. I'm going to play golf. I shouldn't have a problem doing better than that Tiger nerd." This kid will hit his PW 200 yards and make a mockery of the tour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer View Post
    Will Nicklaus always be The greatest golfer? Hardly. It's probably not going to be Tiger either. Look, only one black guy has ever attempted golf and he won 14 majors. He was also married with kids and banging skanks at a retired Micheal Jordan rate....and he is only half black.

    In the near future, an inner city kid built like Cam Newton or Lebron James is gonna say, "Fukk getting tackled and all that running around, getting yelled at by coaches, and having to rely on teammates. I'm going to play golf. I shouldn't have a problem doing better than that Tiger nerd." This kid will hit his PW 200 yards and make a mockery of the tour.
    And with his first big Tour Check, he'll go out and buy a brand new six-figure max-pimped SUV, a key of 95.9% pure blow, and a dozen New-Old-Stock Tec-9's and land in the lock-up within 48 hours. Oh and I forgot to mention the five carat diamond earrings that the Intake Center Commander will permit him to wear whilst he is incarcerated awaiting The Bail Hearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    Yeah, right! A few of my high school classmates live in Oklahoma and try to play golf in that "weather!" They think an opportunity to travel to Clovis, NM (my home town) is like going to Florida, ha. I lived near Oklahoma several years in the 60s while attending KU. I got the opportunity to enjoy 100 degrees with 100% humidity and then freezing rain bringing down phone wires. I rode an old Harley 61 I bought in a basket, no windshield, and got to enjoy June Bugs hitting my face-- like being hit with a fist!

    There is a very good reason I and the other lucky millions live here in S. California, and it is NOT the politics or the hoards of illegals from Mexico.

    We are having a "chilly" spell right now, so it will be noon before the temperatures hit 60+. We never have wind and seldom more than a few clouds. Extremely low humidity and few bugs! Mosquitos like moisture and we don't do moisture. We are SOOO glad that most loud and obnoxious NYers think Florida is paradise. If they ever saw this there would be even more of them in La Jolla! ha

    Larry
    My mother is from Clovis, NM and speaking from my experience with that town, it's a good place to be from.

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    As i said earlier Jack wasnt even the best player on tour in his prime so how could he be the best ever. Watson and Trevino both owned jack for extended periods. Trevino has also gone on record saying he wouldnt have a hope against tiger. He says tiger is way better than the golfers from his day, and he owned jack. The only guys who would come close to tiger talent wise are seve and the shark. they lacked jacks focus and coolness under pressure, but could both play shots jack could only drram about.
    t
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    As i said earlier Jack wasnt even the best player on tour in his prime so how could he be the best ever. Watson and Trevino both owned jack for extended periods. Trevino has also gone on record saying he wouldnt have a hope against tiger. He says tiger is way better than the golfers from his day, and he owned jack. The only guys who would come close to tiger talent wise are seve and the shark. they lacked jacks focus and coolness under pressure, but could both play shots jack could only drram about.t
    And when Jack was in his prime, he could play high fades with driver and irons that carried farther than most of his peers' shots counting carry and roll. Put Ray Floyd in his prime up against Tiger with the same kit and ball and there would be no clear-cut winner. Or Johnny Miller. Or Faldo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    And when Jack was in his prime, he could play high fades with driver and irons that carried farther than most of his peers' shots counting carry and roll. Put Ray Floyd in his prime up against Tiger with the same kit and ball and there would be no clear-cut winner. Or Johnny Miller. Or Faldo.
    I agree that during the 2 years or so he was 'on' Miller culd probably match it with Tiger, but not the other 2 bums. Faldo was a short knocker who got all his majors from other guys choking and handing it to him, not from his own great play. Norman (twice), Cook, Floyd, and Hoch all should have closed out the majors that Faldo stole from under their noses. Faldo also had a very poor record in regular events. Nothing like Tiger. Have aa look at Tiger's record in all events he has entered compared to Nicklaus. I would guess Tiger has a superior win/top 3/top 10 ratio for events entered to any pro in the history of the game. That's thereal measure of how great Tiger is, his ability to contend when his game is off. When Tiger has a good week with the putter he laps the field. But even when is putting is off he still usually has a top 10 finish and sometimes even wins. Even during his much publicised slump the last 2 years he has played beter tee to green than anybody in the field at Augusta. His poor putting the last 3 or 4 years has probably cost him one or 2 majorsa year. He probably should already have Jack's record in his rear view mirror, but I supoose it would be ridiculous to expect a player to go through a 15 year pro career without having sme struggles with the flat stick.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    As i said earlier Jack wasnt even the best player on tour in his prime so how could he be the best ever. Watson and Trevino both owned jack for extended periods. Trevino has also gone on record saying he wouldnt have a hope against tiger. He says tiger is way better than the golfers from his day, and he owned jack. The only guys who would come close to tiger talent wise are seve and the shark. they lacked jacks focus and coolness under pressure, but could both play shots jack could only drram about.
    t
    Let's see . . . . . . . so, you want me to take the credibility of a guy who has claimed to beat golfers on his home course as a kid with a string and a coke bottle?

    Nice try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    Let's see . . . . . . . so, you want me to take the credibility of a guy who has claimed to beat golfers on his home course as a kid with a string and a coke bottle?

    Nice try.
    How much money has tiger won? How much has your boy won in a career twice as long? The prosecution rests.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    How much money has tiger won? How much has your boy won in a career twice as long? The prosecution rests.
    You know that is a weak argument and you are playing on the hopes of my ignorance to the fact that prize money has more than doubled since Jack was playing. Shame on you. I'm insulted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    You know that is a weak argument and you are playing on the hopes of my ignorance to the fact that prize money has more than doubled since Jack was playing. Shame on you. I'm insulted.

    Prize money is more like twenty times what it was back in Nicklaus' day when he was winning. The first time a pga tournament winner won more than $100,000 was at the Player's Championship somewhere around 1984 and at that time Nicklaus was past his prime. Tiger basically doubled the prize money for everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    You know that is a weak argument and you are playing on the hopes of my ignorance to the fact that prize money has more than doubled since Jack was playing. Shame on you. I'm insulted.
    Agreed. But the reason prize money is so high is because tiger s greatness created so much intrrest in the game the purses skyrocketed. Prizemoney hardly climbed at all during jacks time at the top. The public obviously think tiger is a bigger deal.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    Agreed. But the reason prize money is so high is because tiger s greatness created so much intrrest in the game the purses skyrocketed. Prizemoney hardly climbed at all during jacks time at the top. The public obviously think tiger is a bigger deal.
    I completely agree. Tiger has done more for the game of golf than anyone since Arnold Palmer. We have to put up with all kinds of hacking idiots on the course thanks to Tiger. He's the most exciting player to watch in the history of the game, along with Palmer.

    BTW, I had another great club ho'ing day yesterday. Brand new set of Callaway Diablo forged irons 3-PW, Diablo Octane Tour Driver with exotic custom Motore F3 shaft and then 4 dozen Callaway Tour i(z) balls and two sleeves of yet to be released balls all for $350.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I completely agree. Tiger has done more for the game of golf than anyone since Arnold Palmer. We have to put up with all kinds of hacking idiots on the course thanks to Tiger. He's the most exciting player to watch in the history of the game, along with Palmer.

    BTW, I had another great club ho'ing day yesterday. Brand new set of Callaway Diablo forged irons 3-PW, Diablo Octane Tour Driver with exotic custom Motore F3 shaft and then 4 dozen Callaway Tour i(z) balls and two sleeves of yet to be released balls all for $350.
    What exactly do you do with all of these clubs? I can understand holding onto clubs you've played, like, etc. but you seem to buy just about anything. Besides, when do you find the time? Don't you have a job or are you like AB, without a job, living in mom's basement, etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I completely agree. Tiger has done more for the game of golf than anyone since Arnold Palmer. We have to put up with all kinds of hacking idiots on the course thanks to Tiger. He's the most exciting player to watch in the history of the game, along with Palmer.

    BTW, I had another great club ho'ing day yesterday. Brand new set of Callaway Diablo forged irons 3-PW, Diablo Octane Tour Driver with exotic custom Motore F3 shaft and then 4 dozen Callaway Tour i(z) balls and two sleeves of yet to be released balls all for $350.
    Arnold Palmer is still on the golfers money list. I think he was third last year with no money coming from prize money. $30'some million. Not too bad. It just goes to show that Tiger will be bagging big $'s way into the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul View Post
    Arnold Palmer is still on the golfers money list. I think he was third last year with no money coming from prize money. $30'some million. Not too bad. It just goes to show that Tiger will be bagging big $'s way into the future.

    Arnold is known to be an excellent businessman while Nicklaus has struggled with his businesses over the years. Palmer builds his businesses through establishing relationships while Nicklaus runs his businesses by trying to control everything. Have you ever seen Nicklaus brand shirts? Clearly he decided on the patterns. The man has no taste.

    You couldn't pick two more opposite people. Palmer's autobiography talks about all the people in his life and his relationships with them. Nicklaus talks about himself, over and over.

    BTW, it doesn't take much time to check on Craigslist if anything is for sale. You just meet them at the nearby range at lunchtime and buy the clubs. I usually sell just about everything I buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Arnold is known to be an excellent businessman while Nicklaus has struggled with his businesses over the years. Palmer builds his businesses through establishing relationships while Nicklaus runs his businesses by trying to control everything. Have you ever seen Nicklaus brand shirts? Clearly he decided on the patterns. The man has no taste.

    You couldn't pick two more opposite people. Palmer's autobiography talks about all the people in his life and his relationships with them. Nicklaus talks about himself, over and over.

    BTW, it doesn't take much time to check on Craigslist if anything is for sale. You just meet them at the nearby range at lunchtime and buy the clubs. I usually sell just about everything I buy.
    What they both have in common is that, with the exception of a few runs of splendid arcane blade irons, they both had/have club companies that sell clubs that were/are gardening and earth-moving implements. By the way, Palmer's enterprises were near bankruptcy in the early '80's, if I recall correctly. I don't remember how he got bailed out but I don't think he did it himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    What they both have in common is that, with the exception of a few runs of splendid arcane blade irons, they both had/have club companies that sell clubs that were/are gardening and earth-moving implements. By the way, Palmer's enterprises were near bankruptcy in the early '80's, if I recall correctly. I don't remember how he got bailed out but I don't think he did it himself.
    I'm pretty sure it was Nicklaus' company that almost went bankrupt. Arnold is the man. He made golf what it is today, he created the Golf Channel and he was responsible for starting the Senior Tour (now Champions Tour). Meanwhile, Venturi is still upset over Arnold Palmer beating him at the Masters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was Nicklaus' company that almost went bankrupt. Arnold is the man. He made golf what it is today, he created the Golf Channel and he was responsible for starting the Senior Tour (now Champions Tour). Meanwhile, Venturi is still upset over Arnold Palmer beating him at the Masters.
    My friend has a set of Venturi blades that are very nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul View Post
    My friend has a set of Venturi blades that are very nice.
    Wasn't that Orlimar that came out with Venturi blades? I don't think they sold very well and the company went out of business shortly thereafter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    What they both have in common is that, with the exception of a few runs of splendid arcane blade irons, they both had/have club companies that sell clubs that were/are gardening and earth-moving implements. By the way, Palmer's enterprises were near bankruptcy in the early '80's, if I recall correctly. I don't remember how he got bailed out but I don't think he did it himself.
    I'm pretty sure when Palmer was facing financial ruin he rolled everything into a last throw of the dice in property. He started the first gated community golfing estate, which ended up being a home run, and has gone from strength to strength from there.

    Nickalus and Palmer golf brands were both unmitigated disasters. I believe Nicklaus went periously close to the edge from the losses he took on his golf brand. No serious golfer would touch his brand clubs.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    [QUOTE=Not a hacker;258760]I'm pretty sure when Palmer was facing financial ruin he rolled everything into a last throw of the dice in property. He started the first gated community golfing estate, which ended up being a home run, and has gone from strength to strength from there.

    Nickalus and Palmer golf brands were both unmitigated disasters. I believe Nicklaus went periously close to the edge from the losses he took on his golf brand. No serious golfer would touch his brand clubs.[/QUOTE]

    Back in 1996 I drove up north an hour and a half and met my father at the first round of the Senior Tour event that used to be held in the Philadelphia metro area. It was on Friday and the gallery was pretty sparse. Since the old man was rather feeble at the time, he would take his portable seat and claim a spot just behind the green of a longish par 3 and match everybody come through. I wandered around a bit and walking back to the green where my father was perched, I noticed a large black leather golf bag full of clubs perched against the fence next to a back entrance to the clubhouse by the practice green. Being naturally curious (nosey), I sneaked a peak into Nicklaus' bag and saw among the best looking blade irons I've ever seen. Had a tiny "Nicklaus" logo on the back of the muscle. I've never seen that model advertised anywhere. It was bizarre because there was no one around and I could have pilfered a couple of those irons, hell, maybe even the whole bag. It was about 20 minutes before his tee time and I guess he was inside taking a dump.

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    [QUOTE=mongrel;258762]
    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker View Post
    I'm pretty sure when Palmer was facing financial ruin he rolled everything into a last throw of the dice in property. He started the first gated community golfing estate, which ended up being a home run, and has gone from strength to strength from there.

    Nickalus and Palmer golf brands were both unmitigated disasters. I believe Nicklaus went periously close to the edge from the losses he took on his golf brand. No serious golfer would touch his brand clubs.[/QUOTE]

    Back in 1996 I drove up north an hour and a half and met my father at the first round of the Senior Tour event that used to be held in the Philadelphia metro area. It was on Friday and the gallery was pretty sparse. Since the old man was rather feeble at the time, he would take his portable seat and claim a spot just behind the green of a longish par 3 and match everybody come through. I wandered around a bit and walking back to the green where my father was perched, I noticed a large black leather golf bag full of clubs perched against the fence next to a back entrance to the clubhouse by the practice green. Being naturally curious (nosey), I sneaked a peak into Nicklaus' bag and saw among the best looking blade irons I've ever seen. Had a tiny "Nicklaus" logo on the back of the muscle. I've never seen that model advertised anywhere. It was bizarre because there was no one around and I could have pilfered a couple of those irons, hell, maybe even the whole bag. It was about 20 minutes before his tee time and I guess he was inside taking a dump.
    Nicklaus clubs were heavily marketed by one particular franchise out here a few years back and I've seen most of his clubs, including the blades. They are very nice looking sticks and top shelf quality. Problem is though that nobody is going to pay the same price for a set of Nicklaus blades as you do for Mizuno or Titleist. I recall the blades weren't big sellers at all and disappeared. Never seen a set in anyone's bag.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poe4soul View Post
    My mother is from Clovis, NM and speaking from my experience with that town, it's a good place to be from.
    Amazingly, at least half of my high school class still lives there! We have had several reunions and they only need to drive to the local Holiday Inn, the nicest large meeting room in town! Others have moved to the big city; now living in Albuquerque or over in Texas, Dallas/Ft. Worth, etc.

    If you grew up there, you have their values-- and it was definitely "squeaky" clean by today's standards. We football boys loved to fight, but it was always clean fisticuffs. Do anything dirty and your own friends would turn on you! After the fight, we would have a beer together! Usually we fought the HS boys from nearby Texas towns. They would drive over and a dozen cars and trucks would drive outside town and we'd choose opponents and fight in the headlights. Fun stuff. My dad loved to hear about it because he did the same thing as a kid in Oklahoma. Even as men on the railroad he said they would step down from the engine and sort it out with fists.

    Fun times. Later I realized that SW USA Texas and Clovis, NM culture had almost nothing to do with the culture in LA or Norfolk or New London, Ct. Get in a fight there and someone pulls a knife! Whoa! Hey, I just wanted to see who was best at Marquis of Kingsbury boxing, nothing more. I don't hate you! I don't want to hurt you! And I don't want to get hurt!

    So later in the Navy in the US and all over the world as I encountered situations in bars-- wherein I knew my street fighting experience had given me the ability to hit first and effectively, I would get angry and see the opportunity to flatten someone's nose before they could raise their hands, instead I asked," Hey, I was just wondering what kind of beer you wanted?"

    And that works better. Today a seeming harmless little pop in the nose is called, "felony assault." A "steet fighter" can throw his entire future away in a few seconds.

    Instead it is definitely true that we get "more flies with honey than with vinegar."

    Larry

  96. #96
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    My motto has always been to not hit anyone in anger unless you're absolutely certain you can outrun them.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    My motto has always been to not hit anyone in anger unless you're absolutely certain you can outrun them.
    Larry's motto is: "tell lies about your accomplishments, ..."

    Nope. That's it.

    TaylorMade r7 9.5
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  98. #98
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    I honestly don't think one needs much talent as a businessman to do well with the names/brands Palmer and Nicklaus have had.
    GR lives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    My motto has always been to not hit anyone in anger unless you're absolutely certain you can outrun them.
    My motto is never bring a knife to a gun fight.

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    Larry never fails to impress. He's not just the legendary golfer who hits all th fairways and all the greens but also an accomplished fist fighter! Larry is there a boxing review forum where I can read more about your street fighting exploits?

    Alan clearly doesn't realize who he is dealing with. A golf match might be close but if it came to fisticuffs AGB wouldn't stand a chance!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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