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  1. #1
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    2008 - 2010 Irons for a mid-to-high handicapper

    I was going to sift through the threads to see if this has been discussed recently, but it took all of 1 minute before I happened upon a flamefest between Larry and Alan to realize my efforts would be futile.

    I'm just getting back into golf and I've gotten to the point where I've broken 100 a couple of times after starting to golf left handed. I'm currently hitting Callaway X-18s and got the upgrade bug when looking for a new 3-wood. Any recommendations on a new set of irons that probably came out between 2008 and 2010? I like the look of the Taylormade Burner 2.0s, but have read conflicting reviews. I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a shovel (thinner topline) but has plenty of forgiveness (a la the old TM RAC LTs). I realize I need to go hit the sticks myself, but was hoping to narrow down some of the options.

    TIA, *****es.
    I keeps it real.

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    I had a set of the original RAC LT's for awhile and traded them after two rounds. Too hard for me to hit. After a few other sets of cavity backs, I now have a set of the easiest to hit well irons I've ever tried. Mizuno MX 20's. I also have 4-7 MX 23's but they have more offset and I prefer minimal offset. The MX 20's came out in 2002 and a set in very good to excellent condition should cost no more than $200 and probably less. MX 23's came out in 2005 and should run a bit more. The MX 25's are supposedly even easier to hit and I think they are 2006-2007 models. With the RAC LT's, a perfectly struck 7 iron would carry 150 max for me. I can hit my MX 20 7 iron fat enough to take half a pound of turf off the ground and it will carry 155. A decent strike goes 160 all day every day.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Good feedback, Mongrel. I had kinda written off Mizuno as a players iron, but I'll check out the MX series.
    I keeps it real.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I realize I need to go hit the sticks myself...

    TIA, *****es.

    Ask your cyber-friends on the internet, Best possible way to choose clubs. Especially when you've already answered your own question far more proficiently than you asked it.

    Make it a project to find what you like. have fun with it. But ask these guys???????? You already know how that will work out for you.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I was going to sift through the threads to see if this has been discussed recently, but it took all of 1 minute before I happened upon a flamefest between Larry and Alan to realize my efforts would be futile.

    I'm just getting back into golf and I've gotten to the point where I've broken 100 a couple of times after starting to golf left handed. I'm currently hitting Callaway X-18s and got the upgrade bug when looking for a new 3-wood. Any recommendations on a new set of irons that probably came out between 2008 and 2010? I like the look of the Taylormade Burner 2.0s, but have read conflicting reviews. I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a shovel (thinner topline) but has plenty of forgiveness (a la the old TM RAC LTs). I realize I need to go hit the sticks myself, but was hoping to narrow down some of the options.

    TIA, *****es.
    Find yourself a decent set of Callay 2002 BB irons, you will be very happy... If your swing is fundamentally sound, try Mizuno MX23 or MX25 ... Mongrel already gave U great suggestions... but do research yourself... Take everything on internet with a grain of salt

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471 View Post
    Find yourself a decent set of Callay 2002 BB irons, you will be very happy... If your swing is fundamentally sound, try Mizuno MX23 or MX25 ... Mongrel already gave U great suggestions... but do research yourself... Take everything on internet with a grain of salt

    He said he doesn't like the shovel look so the 2002 BB would be ruled out. The Ping i5s are a good choice for a club that is forgiving but looks fairly compact. An excellent iron for the price is the Titleist 762 iron. It's fairly compact, forgiving and vey long. I think the MX series of irons is definitely in the "shovel" category. The longish heel to toe length, coupled with heavy offset gives them a paddle look. I can't stand looking down at them. Not only that but the short irons in the MX line are gigantic. I was looking at a MX-23 pitching wedge and it was way too big.

    Taylormade Tour Burner irons are probably the best looking GI iron out there when you put it down at address...little offset, fairly compact head but tons of forgiveness and LONG!
    There are two kinds of people in the world, those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don’t.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I can't stand looking down at them. Not only that but the short irons in the MX line are gigantic. I was looking at a MX-23 pitching wedge and it was way too big.!
    That's my biggest complaint about the mx200s. I was going to get the mp52s at the time I was fit, but I was going through a phase of worse than normal ball striking so I got talked into the shovels. The 9i and PW are awful looking. I would think that the hacker sets would have less offset and size in the short irons.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Good feedback, Mongrel. I had kinda written off Mizuno as a players iron, but I'll check out the MX series.
    You will undoubtedly read many snide comments about any clubs you post about and the Mizuno MX series from the 20's to the 200's are certainly valid targets for those who say they are too large, too offset, too much like shovels etc. etc. and they are mostly correct. Most comments I make here are based on my own opinions based on my experiences and are offered only to help people. I've been through a bunch of different irons over the years. The worst ones I ever had was a set of Caloway clones I bought from a friend who imported them in the late '90's. I forget what model, maybe a Hawkeye, but they had huge offsets and came with cheapo no-name steel shafts. I was playing forged small blades at the time and had gotten into a streak of not being able to hit them at all so I went 180* the other way with the clones. Took them to Florida and played two rounds. Got them up in the air fine but could get no more than 135 out of the 7, 150 out of the 5 etc. So the reason I now have MX 20's and 23's is that I read a lot of comments and reviews on this site and many others. 12 Sandwich's comments were especially valuable to me and proved to be right on. All I wanted is a set of irons that I could hit reliably from all different lies from tight baked to spring mud and I got that. I also wanted adequate distances and I got that in spades. Accuracy is pretty important to me and I got that as good as any irons I ever had. Feel is subjective. I hate harsh feeling irons and these are never harsh and I have tried purposely to get stung and it just doesn't happen. The heads are forged and chromed. The are at least 10 years old and have a few nicks but appear to be pretty indestrucable. The best thing is that they are really cheap. Being left-handed, you will get almost any used clubs cheaper than the right-handled models. By the way, my lapsed handicap index is about 17. If I had these irons when I started putting in scores again a couple of years ago, it would probably be 10 or under since most of my lost strokes have come from extremely poor iron play. I have averaged almost double bogey on par 3's and that sh*t has ceased.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I was going to sift through the threads to see if this has been discussed recently, but it took all of 1 minute before I happened upon a flamefest between Larry and Alan to realize my efforts would be futile.

    I'm just getting back into golf and I've gotten to the point where I've broken 100 a couple of times after starting to golf left handed. I'm currently hitting Callaway X-18s and got the upgrade bug when looking for a new 3-wood. Any recommendations on a new set of irons that probably came out between 2008 and 2010? I like the look of the Taylormade Burner 2.0s, but have read conflicting reviews. I'd prefer something that doesn't look like a shovel (thinner topline) but has plenty of forgiveness (a la the old TM RAC LTs). I realize I need to go hit the sticks myself, but was hoping to narrow down some of the options.

    TIA, *****es.
    Do what I did-- and what most teaching pros recommend. Borrow some sample clubs and hit them side-by-side, same lie, same targets. I did that for almost an hour one day, comparing clubs of all shaft types, different brands, different clubhead types, every possible variation. I tried Titleist DCIs, Mizuno, Callaway and Taylormade and Ping one after the other. All manufacturers produce extra 6i for lessons and such trial comparisons.

    I was a beginner then, my swing was basically a violent cast, but even so I liked the feel and consistency of the Callaway OS BB graphites. This was 2002, so I bought the set.

    Then at my club with 600+ members, it seemed that MOST of the players over age 40 were swinging my clubs!!!

    Last year (8 years later) I dropped by the Callaway booth at a golf show and talked to the guys about irons. They admitted that the 2002 BBs I play were their most popular set EVER! And he said Callaway still makes that set-- although they change their appearance and the name superficially each year. It is the same club! If it works, don't fix it!

    So do an extensive side-by-side test before you buy. Then when you have homed in on what you want, buy a used set on Craigslist or eBay or your local want ads. Iron golf clubs haven't changed in any significant way in 20+ years.

    Then spend the money you save on lessons! Sign up for a series and learn a real golf swing. I really wish I had done that when I started-- instead of waiting 8 years and then needing to laboriously UNLEARN bad habits.

    Larry

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    You will undoubtedly read many snide comments about any clubs you post about and the Mizuno MX series from the 20's to the 200's are certainly valid targets for those who say they are too large, too offset, too much like shovels etc. etc. and they are mostly correct. Most comments I make here are based on my own opinions based on my experiences and are offered only to help people. I've been through a bunch of different irons over the years. The worst ones I ever had was a set of Caloway clones I bought from a friend who imported them in the late '90's. I forget what model, maybe a Hawkeye, but they had huge offsets and came with cheapo no-name steel shafts. I was playing forged small blades at the time and had gotten into a streak of not being able to hit them at all so I went 180* the other way with the clones. Took them to Florida and played two rounds. Got them up in the air fine but could get no more than 135 out of the 7, 150 out of the 5 etc. So the reason I now have MX 20's and 23's is that I read a lot of comments and reviews on this site and many others. 12 Sandwich's comments were especially valuable to me and proved to be right on. All I wanted is a set of irons that I could hit reliably from all different lies from tight baked to spring mud and I got that. I also wanted adequate distances and I got that in spades. Accuracy is pretty important to me and I got that as good as any irons I ever had. Feel is subjective. I hate harsh feeling irons and these are never harsh and I have tried purposely to get stung and it just doesn't happen. The heads are forged and chromed. The are at least 10 years old and have a few nicks but appear to be pretty indestrucable. The best thing is that they are really cheap. Being left-handed, you will get almost any used clubs cheaper than the right-handled models. By the way, my lapsed handicap index is about 17. If I had these irons when I started putting in scores again a couple of years ago, it would probably be 10 or under since most of my lost strokes have come from extremely poor iron play. I have averaged almost double bogey on par 3's and that sh*t has ceased.
    Don't get me wrong. I like my mx200s. They don't have tremendous offset and they don't have garishly wide soles. The short irons are too clunky looking, though.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home-slicer View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I like my mx200s. They don't have tremendous offset and they don't have garishly wide soles. The short irons are too clunky looking, though.
    That seems to be why a lot of guys will swap out the MX short irons for some MP's. I was going to do that when I first got the MX 20's because those heads are humongous and I've got a set of MP 14's with short irons I love. Then I started practicing with them and when I compared them off the turf and out of high grass, the MX's produced more reliable distances and directions and were 5-15 yards longer with a good bit less effort. It wasn't hard to keep them in the bag even though sometimes I think they look like Japanese cartoon clubs. All I really care about with any club is that it provides the distance, direction and trajectory I deserve with the swing I put on it.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    That seems to be why a lot of guys will swap out the MX short irons for some MP's. I was going to do that when I first got the MX 20's because those heads are humongous and I've got a set of MP 14's with short irons I love. Then I started practicing with them and when I compared them off the turf and out of high grass, the MX's produced more reliable distances and directions and were 5-15 yards longer with a good bit less effort. It wasn't hard to keep them in the bag even though sometimes I think they look like Japanese cartoon clubs. All I really care about with any club is that it provides the distance, direction and trajectory I deserve with the swing I put on it.
    I can't use a mixed set. I don't know what it is but I just can't. All of my irons need to be the same. My problem is that I'll hit the MP-60 9 iron absolutely perfect and then I'll say "well, I'd like to have the rest of them in the bag now". See, it just adds to the stress and I don't need that.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I can't use a mixed set. I don't know what it is but I just can't. All of my irons need to be the same. My problem is that I'll hit the MP-60 9 iron absolutely perfect and then I'll say "well, I'd like to have the rest of them in the bag now". See, it just adds to the stress and I don't need that.
    Same with me. Although I do have an MX23 4 iron which has a slightly small head but more offset than the MX 20. Only reason I use it is because I didn't get one with the 20 set. Doesn't matter because it has the same shaft as the others and I installed and weighted it in perfect progression. The only thing is that I can't fade it like I can the 20's. Only straight and gentle draw. But I can live with that because if I have to hit a fade at 180 or more, I gots my Rescue Mid hybrid which is more workable than Silly Putty. I love the MX's because they are the best-hitting irons off the tee that I have ever hit. By the way, I tried hitting the MP60's and hated them from PW on down.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Same with me. Although I do have an MX23 4 iron which has a slightly small head but more offset than the MX 20. Only reason I use it is because I didn't get one with the 20 set. Doesn't matter because it has the same shaft as the others and I installed and weighted it in perfect progression. The only thing is that I can't fade it like I can the 20's. Only straight and gentle draw. But I can live with that because if I have to hit a fade at 180 or more, I gots my Rescue Mid hybrid which is more workable than Silly Putty. I love the MX's because they are the best-hitting irons off the tee that I have ever hit. By the way, I tried hitting the MP60's and hated them from PW on down.
    I didn't like them either as the trajectory was too high; something I have experienced with every single MP CB iron I've tried. I found the Mizuno Comp-EZ to be the best Mizuno iron I've ever tried. It seemed to have the perfect trajectory, great feel and great distance. The Dynamic Golf Plus shaft is great and fits my swing perfectly. If my latest irons don't work out I'll probably go back to those. I like the Comp-Ez better than the MX line because the EZ has significantly less offset.
    There are two kinds of people in the world, those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don’t.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the comments. When I switched from righty to lefty two years ago I took a series of lessons so that I'd start my swing off on the right foot. I think I have a good set-up, but could probably use 2-3 lessons right now to dial things in a bit since I have a tendency to spray the ball.

    During that same time, I went on ebay and picked up several 6 irons to try on the range before selecting a set of irons. The result was the Callaway X-18s. I actually like the clubs and get plenty of distance (160 7-iron), but just kinda caught the upgrade bug. I plan to go through a similar process of trying out 6-irons that I'll find on ebay and will use some of the ideas I'm getting here.

    Quick question. What's the best way to get fitted for clubs? I've never had my swing speed measured, so I've never received a recommendation for shaft stiffness or kick point or anything like that. Would that be a good idea to do before I start testing clubs?
    I keeps it real.

  16. #16
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLQynku4M-w

    I just don't think the club itself makes much difference. In the video above I am hitting an OLD rusty Haig Ultra 2i, tiny forged blade on heavy steel shaft. I use the most difficult possible clubs in practice in order to focus on my swing fundamentals. I alternate hitting that old forged blade, a Callaway graphite Cavity back 2i, a Whippy Tempomaster 5i, and my Taylormade R7 driver. I hit one after the other when I want to verify my swing movement. If it works with one, it works with all. Alternatively, if I can't hit one of these clubs well, I know it is my swing, not the club.

    I am closing in on a MAJOR swing change, the ability to avoid casting entirely and make the late release that really good players do. I want to achieve sufficient distance and accuracy without violence in my swing, just a smooth movement. The key was the layoff move, the "flattening of the shaft" that allows me to set my wrists on top, bring my dominant elbow in tight and then bring arms and hands and club down in one piece until my hands are in front of my legs-- before gravity whips the clubhead through the ball.

    Watch Kevin demonstrate what I am working on. (that's Tiger on his screen, we were watching his old swings, comparing them to today)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fccJEElr3gQ

    Kevin lays the club off on top as he sets his wrists. He BUMPS his left hip laterally to set his weight on his left leg-- and then brings everything down together until his hands are in front of his legs. He can do this even when hitting a ball only 100 yards with a 1i. Fun to watch. And relatively easy to imitate.

    For me one key was to disable my dominant left hand from pushing the club handle-- forcing it away in a casting move. I set my hands very tightly together, and then feel my left PALM pushing my right thumb toward the butt of the club-- rather than away. It is subtle, but it is everything to stop casting and make a late release. I was just drilling that old 2i forged blade long and straight, and that is fun. I will work on this again today and try to ingrain it- for a permanent swing change.

    Another thing that is extremely important is relaxed arms and hands. If our arms are tense, the wrists cannot set correctly-- and will not be able to hold the set long into the downswing. Arm muscle tension is tightly related to wrist flexiblity and grip pressure. Snead thought it all started with light grip pressure. Nicklaus thought it was loose "ragdoll" arms. Whatever, tight and tense DOES NOT WORK in the golf swing.

    Larry
    Last edited by Larryrsf; 03-23-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Thanks for the comments. When I switched from righty to lefty two years ago I took a series of lessons so that I'd start my swing off on the right foot. I think I have a good set-up, but could probably use 2-3 lessons right now to dial things in a bit since I have a tendency to spray the ball.

    During that same time, I went on ebay and picked up several 6 irons to try on the range before selecting a set of irons. The result was the Callaway X-18s. I actually like the clubs and get plenty of distance (160 7-iron), but just kinda caught the upgrade bug. I plan to go through a similar process of trying out 6-irons that I'll find on ebay and will use some of the ideas I'm getting here.

    Quick question. What's the best way to get fitted for clubs? I've never had my swing speed measured, so I've never received a recommendation for shaft stiffness or kick point or anything like that. Would that be a good idea to do before I start testing clubs?
    If you live in or near a major metropolitan area in the States, you should have a major chain golf retailer near you. They all have simulators with computerized launch monitors that read your shot stats. Some will charge for fitting you that way. There's a simple maxxim that has gone around the club-fitting circle for years and take it as you will. It states that one should play the longest, lightest and most flexible shafts that one can control. In practical terms, that means you will achieve maximum distance and accuracy with that magic combination that allows you to strike your irons in the centers of their clubfaces most consistently. You can measure your strikes with impact tape. It comes for irons and drivers. Most people err on the sides of shaft length and stiffness since it is more macho to play a stiff shaft than a regular and in order to get more distance with the stiff shaft, you have to make it longer so that it flexes enough for you to feel the shots. The problem with most stores' used club inventories is that most of the shafts are in stiff flex. So you may hit drivers and irons that feel like crap when they would be your best friends with more flexible shafts. So a fitting for iron shaft length, weight and flex should be your first task. Once you get your shaft dialed in, there are loads of heads that would work. Same for the woods.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    If you live in or near a major metropolitan area in the States, you should have a major chain golf retailer near you. They all have simulators with computerized launch monitors that read your shot stats. Some will charge for fitting you that way. There's a simple maxxim that has gone around the club-fitting circle for years and take it as you will. It states that one should play the longest, lightest and most flexible shafts that one can control. In practical terms, that means you will achieve maximum distance and accuracy with that magic combination that allows you to strike your irons in the centers of their clubfaces most consistently. You can measure your strikes with impact tape. It comes for irons and drivers. Most people err on the sides of shaft length and stiffness since it is more macho to play a stiff shaft than a regular and in order to get more distance with the stiff shaft, you have to make it longer so that it flexes enough for you to feel the shots. The problem with most stores' used club inventories is that most of the shafts are in stiff flex. So you may hit drivers and irons that feel like crap when they would be your best friends with more flexible shafts. So a fitting for iron shaft length, weight and flex should be your first task. Once you get your shaft dialed in, there are loads of heads that would work. Same for the woods.
    PLEASE ask a teaching pro who does not sell clubs or get a commission about getting fitted clubs. He will look at your swing and may tell you honestly that you will be making major swing changes soon-- if you are serious about golf. So any "fitting" at this stage would be silly-- and also wasteful. Clubs that have been altered are nearly worthless!

    Teaching pros as a group just laugh when they talk about handicap amateurs getting "fitted." The entire concept is just silly since in general our fundamentals are the problem, not the clubs.

    Mongrel, "distance" or clubhead speed at impact is almost entirely a function of swing fundamentals, the late release, avoiding the cast. Have a pro video your swing. If the club shaft is not still horizontal when your hands have returned to in front of your legs, you have cast a huge percentage of your clubhead speed away-- wasted! If you swing harder to compensate, you spray them into the trees or OB. So lessons and drills are FAR more important than any characteristic of the clubs. A golfer with a good swing can hit a Whippy Tempomaster club as far as a regular club! I can hit both my regular 5i and my Whippy 5i 170 yards with a little draw. I can bend the whippy clubshaft in a "U". So does the clubshaft flex characteristics matter? The only thing that matters is its physical weight. Heavier means more energy required to create a given clubhead speed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2QIrEoU-w

    Since this was recorded, I have learned to better avoid casting-- and I can hit that thing another 30 yards!

    Larry
    Last edited by Larryrsf; 03-23-2012 at 11:37 AM.

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    I will add the 2009 version of Callaway X-Forged to the list. I am not a Callaway fan; I do not like their game improvement X-14,16, 18, etc. I bought a set of the '09 X-Forged cheap, to try, and then to resell them because I was sure I was not going to like them. I was wrong. With the PX 5.5 shafts these are the only others clubs I have had that I like as well as my MP30's or Comp Ez's (also good suggestions but hard to find in good shape as they are older).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonT View Post
    I will add the 2009 version of Callaway X-Forged to the list. I am not a Callaway fan; I do not like their game improvement X-14,16, 18, etc. I bought a set of the '09 X-Forged cheap, to try, and then to resell them because I was sure I was not going to like them. I was wrong. With the PX 5.5 shafts these are the only others clubs I have had that I like as well as my MP30's or Comp Ez's (also good suggestions but hard to find in good shape as they are older).

    The Callaway X-Forged 2009 with project X is a great club. They feel slightly more clicky than Mizuno but I think they are more solid overall. Great looking iron.

    At lunchtime I usually do something golf related, mainly because I have golf ranges and stores within minutes, and I decided to go to a large golf chain. They are having an incredible sale on older model clubs. They had the following sets for $19.99, most are 3-PW in good to very good condition:

    Cobra Norman Grinds, 3-PW, Rifle 6.0
    Taylormade ICW
    Wilson Ultra 45 (I bought these)
    Taylormade Tour preferred (1990 model)
    Wilson Mandrella Signature
    Ping Eye
    Henry Griffiths
    Titleist DCI black

    That only represents about 25% of the sets they had. Oh, and they had a set of like new Porsche irons for $49; sort of a blade.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    PLEASE ask a teaching pro who does not sell clubs or get a commission about getting fitted clubs. He will look at your swing and may tell you honestly that you will be making major swing changes soon-- if you are serious about golf. So any "fitting" at this stage would be silly-- and also wasteful. Clubs that have been altered are nearly worthless!

    Teaching pros as a group just laugh when they talk about handicap amateurs getting "fitted." The entire concept is just silly since in general our fundamentals are the problem, not the clubs.

    Mongrel, "distance" or clubhead speed at impact is almost entirely a function of swing fundamentals, the late release, avoiding the cast. Have a pro video your swing. If the club shaft is not still horizontal when your hands have returned to in front of your legs, you have cast a huge percentage of your clubhead speed away-- wasted! If you swing harder to compensate, you spray them into the trees or OB. So lessons and drills are FAR more important than any characteristic of the clubs. A golfer with a good swing can hit a Whippy Tempomaster club as far as a regular club! I can hit both my regular 5i and my Whippy 5i 170 yards with a little draw. I can bend the whippy clubshaft in a "U". So does the clubshaft flex characteristics matter? The only thing that matters is its physical weight. Heavier means more energy required to create a given clubhead speed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2QIrEoU-w

    Since this was recorded, I have learned to better avoid casting-- and I can hit that thing another 30 yards!

    Larry
    Ask your teaching pro if he plays golf as well as teaches it. Most of them also play. Then ask him if his clubs were fit to his preferred specs or did he just accept them off the rack. I would wager that 99.99999% of PGA member teaching, club and touring pros would admit to having their clubs tailored to their exact specs. Any teaching pro worth his salt can easily fit a person for the optimum shaft length, weight and flex using the methods I described. Anyone with access to some demo clubs with shafts of different types, weights, and flexes can do it themselves or have a shop guy help them. Why take lessons to learn how to hit clubs that don't provide an optimum fit?
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    I've played a lot of different clubs, including the X-18s you currently have, and the JPX-800 irons from Mizuno are the easiest to hit of any set I have ever played. They don't look huge and gawdy like a lot of player improvement irons, they are wicked long, and I think the tri-ground sole makes it easy to hit in any ball lies. I haven't hit the JPX-800 Pro irons, so I couldn't tell you whether they will play the same, but I'd sure try the JPX-800s before I bought a set of MX irons.
    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Ask your teaching pro if he plays golf as well as teaches it. Most of them also play. Then ask him if his clubs were fit to his preferred specs or did he just accept them off the rack. I would wager that 99.99999% of PGA member teaching, club and touring pros would admit to having their clubs tailored to their exact specs. Any teaching pro worth his salt can easily fit a person for the optimum shaft length, weight and flex using the methods I described. Anyone with access to some demo clubs with shafts of different types, weights, and flexes can do it themselves or have a shop guy help them. Why take lessons to learn how to hit clubs that don't provide an optimum fit?
    Mongrel: you're not actually expecting a dialogue from Larry, are you? Please.

    Larry is not in the slightest bit interested in listening to what other people have to say about the golf swing. The only voice that Larry wants to hear is his own (which explains why despite dozens upon dozens of lessons from half a dozen instructors he hasn't really gotten any better).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    I've played a lot of different clubs, including the X-18s you currently have, and the JPX-800 irons from Mizuno are the easiest to hit of any set I have ever played. They don't look huge and gawdy like a lot of player improvement irons, they are wicked long, and I think the tri-ground sole makes it easy to hit in any ball lies. I haven't hit the JPX-800 Pro irons, so I couldn't tell you whether they will play the same, but I'd sure try the JPX-800s before I bought a set of MX irons.
    Agreed. The JPX-800s have pretty much everything you'd ever want in a game improvement iron, although I still don't like the look of the PW. They have little offset, great distance, great feel and a good stock shaft. I've tried the forged version and I don't think it looks or feels any better than the cast one. In fact, I like the cast version "non pro" better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    I've played a lot of different clubs, including the X-18s you currently have, and the JPX-800 irons from Mizuno are the easiest to hit of any set I have ever played. They don't look huge and gawdy like a lot of player improvement irons, they are wicked long, and I think the tri-ground sole makes it easy to hit in any ball lies. I haven't hit the JPX-800 Pro irons, so I couldn't tell you whether they will play the same, but I'd sure try the JPX-800s before I bought a set of MX irons.
    A friend of mine just bought a set of these clubs and we went out for a hit 2 weeks ago. They are nice looking, my friend is normally a short hitter but he was getting good distance out of these clubs and making solid contact which is not normal for him. I really wanted to have a hit with them but he is a lefty unfortunately. It is the best I have seen him hit a ball. When he purchased them we were told by the sales guy that the Pro and HD were better clubs and just as forgiving but he liked feel and look of the 800's better. Distance was about the same from memory but that was on a monitor not out on the course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    I've played a lot of different clubs, including the X-18s you currently have, and the JPX-800 irons from Mizuno are the easiest to hit of any set I have ever played. They don't look huge and gawdy like a lot of player improvement irons, they are wicked long, and I think the tri-ground sole makes it easy to hit in any ball lies. I haven't hit the JPX-800 Pro irons, so I couldn't tell you whether they will play the same, but I'd sure try the JPX-800s before I bought a set of MX irons.
    I have hit the jpx800 pro in a 9 iron, and if i could get pass swmbo i would get them in a heart beat. It was about 1 club longer than my mp52 (different loft), was more forgiving, and although the feel was a little harder you could really feel the ball explode of the club face. The 9 iron i hit was from a mates set who had them custom fit 1/2 inch shorter than standard, but it was that good i didn't notice.
    Tm Burner Superfast, r9 4 wood,Tm 09 19*/22*
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Ask your teaching pro if he plays golf as well as teaches it. Most of them also play. Then ask him if his clubs were fit to his preferred specs or did he just accept them off the rack. I would wager that 99.99999% of PGA member teaching, club and touring pros would admit to having their clubs tailored to their exact specs. Any teaching pro worth his salt can easily fit a person for the optimum shaft length, weight and flex using the methods I described. Anyone with access to some demo clubs with shafts of different types, weights, and flexes can do it themselves or have a shop guy help them. Why take lessons to learn how to hit clubs that don't provide an optimum fit?
    He plays tournaments and expects to place well enough to take a piece of the prize money.

    I think he plays off the shelf clubs, nothing fancy. Here he is hitting an ancient forged blade ONE iron.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YsvRfgLP3w

    Of course there is a preference as we look down at clubs and maybe a preference during the first few swings. BUT, I think they will all say that we are humans with almost infinite ability to adjust. And since golfers in the 30s scored over 72 holes about what they do today-- with clubs that we would barely use to stir paint, one can only conclude that scoring has little to do with our equipment. Wooden shafts with grips about like a few layers of electrician's tape. Tiny forged blades that often fell off.

    So I believe until we reach the elite level of ability, we should primarily spend our golf money on lessons and practice.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    He plays tournaments and expects to place well enough to take a piece of the prize money.

    I think he plays off the shelf clubs, nothing fancy. Here he is hitting an ancient forged blade ONE iron.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YsvRfgLP3w

    Of course there is a preference as we look down at clubs and maybe a preference during the first few swings. BUT, I think they will all say that we are humans with almost infinite ability to adjust. And since golfers in the 30s scored over 72 holes about what they do today-- with clubs that we would barely use to stir paint, one can only conclude that scoring has little to do with our equipment. Wooden shafts with grips about like a few layers of electrician's tape. Tiny forged blades that often fell off.

    So I believe until we reach the elite level of ability, we should primarily spend our golf money on lessons and practice.

    Larry
    He's a FREAING GOLF PRO, for God sakes. All he does all day is hit balls, watch others hit balls, and then go hit more balls. Of course he can hit an old forged 1 iron or anything else he has in his hands. Because that's what he does. Dollars to donuts whatever clubs he plays he plays because either some manufacturer sponsors him to the point where he gets their gear free or greatly discounted, or, he chooses exactly what he wants and gets discounts. You've been playing golf long enough to know better than opine, with a straight face, that he would do just as well in cometition with a set of maximum game improvement irons with 50 gram senior flex shafts as he would with whatever is currently in his bag. Conversely, I doubt that you could come within 15 strokes of your scoring average with a set of small forged blades with shafts llike Rifle 7.0's and a 7.5* driver with a 96 gram X flex shaft.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Damn Mongrel, you hit that like a northern hitting a daredevil.
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    Answer me this, Larry. Two hypothetical guys with identical skills and identical swing mechanics. One is 5' 7" with a 95 mph swing speed while the other is 6' 1" with a 110 mph swing speed. If they're using the exact same clubs of length and lie and shaft flex, are you suggesting they will contact the ball the same?
    I keeps it real.

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    BTW, those Mizuno JPX-800s are gorgeous. A bit pricey and will be tough to find used for a left hander, but they're on my watch list.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1135 View Post
    Damn Mongrel, you hit that like a northern hitting a daredevil.
    Unfortunately, sometimes the patience runs thin and the gentle jabs become ineffective.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Answer me this, Larry. Two hypothetical guys with identical skills and identical swing mechanics. One is 5' 7" with a 95 mph swing speed while the other is 6' 1" with a 110 mph swing speed. If they're using the exact same clubs of length and lie and shaft flex, are you suggesting they will contact the ball the same?
    Of course not. So Gene Littler, age 80+ has adjusted his club selection in order to reach the greens in regulation, or on the 4 holes that are too long for him to reach in regulation at all, he hits his second shot to a spot from where he can likely throw it close for an easy unhill putt. Where he might have hit driver 4i, now he hits driver, 3w. But he still hits it straight and he still scores.

    My point is we adjust. He could do that with a set of old wooden shafted clubs or a set of the stiffest Mizunos. He would swing it a few times, get the feel, then hit it straight.

    So I practice with long irons to make it difficult and to test my swing mechanics.

    Today my teaching pro showed me what he does to work on his swing between students-- which is exactly what he recommends to all his students. It is NOT to hit full shots, but to back way off and focus on perfect form, spine angle, release, etc. Here he is swinging driver to hit it only 100 yards. I intend to do more of this type of swing-- and spend less energy hitting full shots that may be counter-productive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0aD...ature=youtu.be

    I didn't ask him what brand that driver is-- or about the shaft flex characteristics. Get it?

    Larry

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    Mongrel, you just had to engage the old a$$hole didn't you?

    Same $hit, different day/thread spewing from that useless old ba$tard. Just keep ignoring him.

    Please.

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    I haven't posted any thing in quite a while, but still check in occasionally. This discussion was enough to make me ante up and post a response.

    I agree that most, if not all "professionals" could play any set of clubs manufactured in the last 40 years and post a score somewhere around par. To me, the postulates posted above don't pass the smell test:

    1. "Teaching pros as a group just laugh when they talk about handicap amateurs getting 'fitted.' The entire concept is just silly since in general our fundamentals are the problem, not the clubs."

    2. "Clubs that have been altered are nearly worthless!"

    3. "I think they will all say that we are humans with almost infinite ability to adjust."

    I take lessons from a teaching pro who has played on virtually every tour in the world and has worked with several current PGA tour professionals since I have known him over the last 4-5 years. And guess what - even though I am an amatuer who gets around the course usually scoring between 83-88, I got fitted for my clubs!

    First, anyone with a semi-repeatable swing can be fitted for length, lie, grip size, style of club (game improvement, SGI, etc), driver launch angle, putter closing angle and putter type (mallet, blade, face balanced). Heck, I even got fitted for the type of ball I play that is best suited for my needs. Note I said semi-repeatable swing - 99% of all golfers are amatuers. I wouldn't buy non-fitted clubs anymore than I would buy a non-fitted suit off the rack or non-fitted shoes. Though, I could probably adapt to a size 48 waist (about 12 inches too big) with a tight belt and suspenders, or size 16 shoes stuffed with yesterday's newspaper.

    Second, my altered clubs aren't worthless to me. They were ordered +1/2 inch with standard grips and two wraps. My driver launches at 13.6 degrees with my amatuer 96-98 mph swing, my ball choice is optimized for my game, and my putter makes use of my semi arc swing with a closing angle of 2.6 degrees.

    Third, as a human I don't want to adjust. I can't hit an XXX shaft or a 3 iron. I want to hit the ball with a swing that is as consistent and repeatable as I can make it, with reasonable confidence. I want to eliminate as many variables as possible and simply play golf. That is why I was fitted for my clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terp View Post
    I haven't posted any thing in quite a while, but still check in occasionally. This discussion was enough to make me ante up and post a response.

    I agree that most, if not all "professionals" could play any set of clubs manufactured in the last 40 years and post a score somewhere around par. To me, the postulates posted above don't pass the smell test:

    1. "Teaching pros as a group just laugh when they talk about handicap amateurs getting 'fitted.' The entire concept is just silly since in general our fundamentals are the problem, not the clubs."

    2. "Clubs that have been altered are nearly worthless!"

    3. "I think they will all say that we are humans with almost infinite ability to adjust."

    I take lessons from a teaching pro who has played on virtually every tour in the world and has worked with several current PGA tour professionals since I have known him over the last 4-5 years. And guess what - even though I am an amatuer who gets around the course usually scoring between 83-88, I got fitted for my clubs!

    First, anyone with a semi-repeatable swing can be fitted for length, lie, grip size, style of club (game improvement, SGI, etc), driver launch angle, putter closing angle and putter type (mallet, blade, face balanced). Heck, I even got fitted for the type of ball I play that is best suited for my needs. Note I said semi-repeatable swing - 99% of all golfers are amatuers. I wouldn't buy non-fitted clubs anymore than I would buy a non-fitted suit off the rack or non-fitted shoes. Though, I could probably adapt to a size 48 waist (about 12 inches too big) with a tight belt and suspenders, or size 16 shoes stuffed with yesterday's newspaper.

    Second, my altered clubs aren't worthless to me. They were ordered +1/2 inch with standard grips and two wraps. My driver launches at 13.6 degrees with my amatuer 96-98 mph swing, my ball choice is optimized for my game, and my putter makes use of my semi arc swing with a closing angle of 2.6 degrees.

    Third, as a human I don't want to adjust. I can't hit an XXX shaft or a 3 iron. I want to hit the ball with a swing that is as consistent and repeatable as I can make it, with reasonable confidence. I want to eliminate as many variables as possible and simply play golf. That is why I was fitted for my clubs.
    Most of the folks here understand and agree with all that you've said. Why? Because it makes sense. To not have clubs fitted to your abilities is pure stupidity. Do not mistake the ramblings of the old idiot to be the opinion of most normal thinking people. Just skim by his posts and remember that you're not missing anything, just the same claptrap repeated ad nauseum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975 View Post
    Mongrel, you just had to engage the old a$$hole didn't you?

    Same $hit, different day/thread spewing from that useless old ba$tard. Just keep ignoring him.

    Please.
    I'll engage when the whim hits me but I didn't totally unload. I let the one statement -- "Altered clubs are nearly wothless."-- along because Larry is new to the game and has the mentality that lots of mature adults and the young have. Namely, that things you buy and use like cars, guitars, guns and golf clubs have to remain as-delivered by the factories in order to work best and maintain resale value. This is probably inculcated by parents and reinforced by product sales people, service managers, friends, opinion leaders and the Government.

    So Larry is following the company line because he is new and he has developed a relationship with a Teaching Pro whom he obviously idolizes and may have on retainer. Nothing wrong with that and I hope he makes up for his years without golf to get incrementally better and where he wants to be on the golf course. However, that sort of relationship is a familiar one. Many of us have seen it with therapy. The person is disturbed and sees the shrink and then enters into a years-long Master/student relationship that is about all the life the patient has living from session to session. The successful Therapist has numerous patients like this and makes a great living. Just like the relationship parodied wonderfully in the HBO series "Sopranos". My opinion of this is that the Teacher/Therapist most often benefits, especially when the course of therapy results in regular payments for services that come in just like stock dividends in a blue-chip equity.

    Of course a casual study of the price of sold used golf clubs on Ebay will yield iron-clad data that prove that "altered clubs" can sell for twice or more as much as stock clubs. If you wanted a set of used irons and your favorite shafts were, say, KBS Tours in 6.0 flex, you would probably be willing to pay $100 or more for a set with those than one that came with the stock Taylor or Cleveland or Ping or Callaway proprietary steel shafts. And drivers with after-market $200-$400 shafts undoubtedly command more than those with the stock REAX, Kua, RCH and whatever cheapies. No?
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I'll engage when the whim hits me but I didn't totally unload. I let the one statement -- "Altered clubs are nearly wothless."-- along because Larry is new to the game and has the mentality that lots of mature adults and the young have. Namely, that things you buy and use like cars, guitars, guns and golf clubs have to remain as-delivered by the factories in order to work best and maintain resale value. This is probably inculcated by parents and reinforced by product sales people, service managers, friends, opinion leaders and the Government.

    So Larry is following the company line because he is new and he has developed a relationship with a Teaching Pro whom he obviously idolizes and may have on retainer. Nothing wrong with that and I hope he makes up for his years without golf to get incrementally better and where he wants to be on the golf course. However, that sort of relationship is a familiar one. Many of us have seen it with therapy. The person is disturbed and sees the shrink and then enters into a years-long Master/student relationship that is about all the life the patient has living from session to session. The successful Therapist has numerous patients like this and makes a great living. Just like the relationship parodied wonderfully in the HBO series "Sopranos". My opinion of this is that the Teacher/Therapist most often benefits, especially when the course of therapy results in regular payments for services that come in just like stock dividends in a blue-chip equity.

    Of course a casual study of the price of sold used golf clubs on Ebay will yield iron-clad data that prove that "altered clubs" can sell for twice or more as much as stock clubs. If you wanted a set of used irons and your favorite shafts were, say, KBS Tours in 6.0 flex, you would probably be willing to pay $100 or more for a set with those than one that came with the stock Taylor or Cleveland or Ping or Callaway proprietary steel shafts. And drivers with after-market $200-$400 shafts undoubtedly command more than those with the stock REAX, Kua, RCH and whatever cheapies. No?
    Oh I'm not disagreeing with your facts. I agree with them. I pay more for Project X or KBS shaft offerings than I ever would for those dog$hit Dynamic Gold garbage that is the default/vanilla shaft in every major brand. Your knowledge is spot-on.

    I just hate to encourage the old fool in any way by responding to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975 View Post
    Oh I'm not disagreeing with your facts. I agree with them. I pay more for Project X or KBS shaft offerings than I ever would for those dog$hit Dynamic Gold garbage that is the default/vanilla shaft in every major brand. Your knowledge is spot-on.

    I just hate to encourage the old fool in any way by responding to him.
    Thanks a lot. Just as an experiment, I suggest you run an ad in the paper saying, "used Taylormade X-14s that were fitted to me. The lie and loft were changed and so were the swing weights. The shop had to removing metal on some clubheads and added weight to others. Some of the clubshaft flex characteristics were altered with internal devices. "

    Good luck selling those. You won't be bothered by phone calls--because NOBODY wants anything that is non-standard. You would have to give that set of clubs away.

    Larry

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    I have done many sales of clubs I have acquired with modified characteristics, and not lost money on any of them. When I buy clubs, more often it is the poor pictures or lack of a good description that allow me to get them at less than their proper value. I will turn them over with the aid of good pictures and list all their modifications; no problem selling them, that is how I have supported my golf equipment addiction for years. Clubs that have poor resale are clubs that have poor resale to begin with, no matter if they are modified or left in standard specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonT View Post
    I have done many sales of clubs I have acquired with modified characteristics, and not lost money on any of them. When I buy clubs, more often it is the poor pictures or lack of a good description that allow me to get them at less than their proper value. I will turn them over with the aid of good pictures and list all their modifications; no problem selling them, that is how I have supported my golf equipment addiction for years. Clubs that have poor resale are clubs that have poor resale to begin with, no matter if they are modified or left in standard specs.
    Stop making sense Jon. I get you, I've sold dozens of clubs with shafts that have been changed out, swingweight added or removed etc. Some people just don't have the intelligence to understand what goes on in the real world every day. I've funded my club ho-ing the same way as you do for many years.

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    And BTW, the only reason I wouldn't get calls is because I ran an ad in THE PAPER. Who the fukk reads the paper anymore for classified ads? Craigslist, Ebay, that's where the world browses. Only doddering old farts would place an ad in the paper. It's 2012 for crying out loud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz1975 View Post
    And BTW, the only reason I wouldn't get calls is because I ran an ad in THE PAPER. Who the fukk reads the paper anymore for classified ads? Craigslist, Ebay, that's where the world browses. Only doddering old farts would place an ad in the paper. It's 2012 for crying out loud.
    The other irony of his argument is that if clubs are so unimportant you're never upgrading/changing them anyway so resale value should be the least of your concerns. Adjust to your hearts content!
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    The other irony of his argument is that if clubs are so unimportant you're never upgrading/changing them anyway so resale value should be the least of your concerns. Adjust to your hearts content!
    Well, if you guys want to believe anecdotes, fine. But I know I wouldn't even look at anything was not factory original, unmodified.

    I do agree that it is smart to buy used rather than new so there is no worry that modifying them will make them worthless.

    But I return to my primary theme that the clubs are not the fault nor the solution to about 99% of poor shots by amateurs. Seldom does a teaching pro ask a student what club he brought to a lesson. He knows a poor grip alone can be the entire cause of poor golfing. He knows a poor setup alone, a faulty backswing move, an incorrect shoulder turn, an impossible top position, no or poor weight shift, etc. etc. etc. the fault in a poor outcome is NEVER the club--and absolutely never some detail in the club's swing weight, shaft flex characteristic, etc.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larryrsf View Post
    But I return to my primary theme that the clubs are not the fault nor the solution to about 99% of poor shots by amateurs. Seldom does a teaching pro ask a student what club he brought to a lesson.
    Larry
    True enough, Larry. No argument.

    But Sheldon and Leonard's elevator will be fixed....

    Lucy will let Charlie Brown kick the football....

    and Beavis and Butthead will actually get laid....

    before any GR player gets his swing fixed.

    That's why I like to talk gear instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    True enough, Larry. No argument.

    But Sheldon and Leonard's elevator will be fixed....

    Lucy will let Charlie Brown kick the football....

    and Beavis and Butthead will actually get laid....

    before any GR player gets his swing fixed.

    That's why I like to talk gear instead.
    Thanks for that splash of cold water, Nifty! And of course you are right. There were a few serious golfers here a few years ago, several who were eager to discuss the intricate details of the golf swing, compare what they were learning from their pro to what another guy was learning from his, etc. Those threads were very, very, informative.

    So lets talk about the effect of square grooves in my new Beryllium lob wedge! I found it on the web somewhere and bought two! One for my golf bag and another for practice only. Not sure whether it is legal or not, but that doesn't matter until I enter the qualifying for the US Open, ha.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Left-LH-Bery...item2eab183c02

    Larry

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    Aren't you the devil with that sexy new wedge!

    I got one too--on E-Bay of all places.
    It's a Cleveland 691 Series 58. I've got four now, in various stages of wear. I'm sure that it's all in my head, but the 691 series 58 is the most effective finesse wedge that I've ever hit, and it's been discontinued for years.

    Not cheap, however. The club head is cheap enough on Ebay when you can find one. The NV Pro 105 to put on it isn't cheap, and neither is it cheap to bring it to the machine shop for those non-conforming grooves that I so love.

    I've never had a copper wedge, but they look the cat's ass. Square box grooves are a great start, but for serious cover shredders, you have to go custom. Then again, not everyone wants cover shredders. Some people are more interested in scoring than in wowing their buddies with ludicrous, excessive backspin, often back off the putting green.

    But what would one expect, my good friend, from a degenerate commie from the infamous Niblick family?

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    Just a follow-up to say I've received Mizuno JPX 800 and Taylor Made CGB Max 3 6-irons to test. They'll be facing off with my current set of Callaway X-18s on the range this weekend.

    First impressions are that the CGB Max is a HUGE friggin club. The topline on that thing is out of control while the sole seems like it's 3 inches wide. However, it's somehow the lightest of the three clubs.

    On the other hand, the JPX 800 is a beautiful looking club. As Sooner mentioned, the topline isn't as thin as I'd like, but I'm not sure they come any thinner in a GII.

    Impressions from the range to follow.
    I keeps it real.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I had a set of the original RAC LT's for awhile and traded them after two rounds. Too hard for me to hit. After a few other sets of cavity backs, I now have a set of the easiest to hit well irons I've ever tried. Mizuno MX 20's. I also have 4-7 MX 23's but they have more offset and I prefer minimal offset. The MX 20's came out in 2002 and a set in very good to excellent condition should cost no more than $200 and probably less. MX 23's came out in 2005 and should run a bit more. The MX 25's are supposedly even easier to hit and I think they are 2006-2007 models. With the RAC LT's, a perfectly struck 7 iron would carry 150 max for me. I can hit my MX 20 7 iron fat enough to take half a pound of turf off the ground and it will carry 155. A decent strike goes 160 all day every day.
    Mizuno's are all good-heck there's nothing wrong with the old Mizuno Sure's and True's-if you can find them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Just a follow-up to say I've received Mizuno JPX 800 and Taylor Made CGB Max 3 6-irons to test. They'll be facing off with my current set of Callaway X-18s on the range this weekend.

    First impressions are that the CGB Max is a HUGE friggin club. The topline on that thing is out of control while the sole seems like it's 3 inches wide. However, it's somehow the lightest of the three clubs.

    On the other hand, the JPX 800 is a beautiful looking club. As Sooner mentioned, the topline isn't as thin as I'd like, but I'm not sure they come any thinner in a GII.

    Impressions from the range to follow.
    Yeah not really sure why you are bothering with the CGB Max demo. You'd gain nothing over the X-18 with that model. Of the three clubs you are testing I would think the JPX would win hands down. The other two are in a dead heat for 3rd equal.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Just a follow-up to say I've received Mizuno JPX 800 and Taylor Made CGB Max 3 6-irons to test. They'll be facing off with my current set of Callaway X-18s on the range this weekend.

    First impressions are that the CGB Max is a HUGE friggin club. The topline on that thing is out of control while the sole seems like it's 3 inches wide. However, it's somehow the lightest of the three clubs.

    On the other hand, the JPX 800 is a beautiful looking club. As Sooner mentioned, the topline isn't as thin as I'd like, but I'm not sure they come any thinner in a GII.

    Impressions from the range to follow.
    I am a bit fussy about toplines also. i have found the topline on the Srixon Z star irons to be quite acceptable. Especially as they are firmly in the GI catagory. Well worth a look. i have been quite impressed by them and they are at the lower end of OEM's pricewise.
    Cobra ZL 9.5 Stock stiff.Sonartec SS 3.5 14*Sonartec HB-001 21* Cally Diablo Forged 4-6 nippons, 2013 x forged 7-pw pxi 5.5 TM rac 50/6 gw. Fourteen MT-28 54 & 58 S400 Daddy Long Legs 35"TM Lethal

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldplayer View Post
    I am a bit fussy about toplines also. i have found the topline on the Srixon Z star irons to be quite acceptable. Especially as they are firmly in the GI catagory. Well worth a look. i have been quite impressed by them and they are at the lower end of OEM's pricewise.
    They are very nice and our local retailer has them on special much lower than the other OEM's as you say. But the lofts would make Nifty have fits. Lofts of 20°, 22°, 24° in the 3, 4 & 5 irons? WTF? A 4° loft increment between 3 clubs? A 24° is a 4 iron in anybodies book. Then there is a 5° loft increment between the 39° 9 iron and 44° pitching wedge.

    I know we needn't get so hung up on the lofts but holy crap. Where will it end? Will next years model have a 40° pitching wedge or 39°? What do you think?
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    They are very nice and our local retailer has them on special much lower than the other OEM's as you say. But the lofts would make Nifty have fits. Lofts of 20°, 22°, 24° in the 3, 4 & 5 irons? WTF? A 4° loft increment between 3 clubs? A 24° is a 4 iron in anybodies book. Then there is a 5° loft increment between the 39° 9 iron and 44° pitching wedge.

    I know we needn't get so hung up on the lofts but holy crap. Where will it end? Will next years model have a 40° pitching wedge or 39°? What do you think?
    It was reported that for a driver we lose 3-5 yds every yr as we get older, I think there is some truth to that... maybe they make stronger lofted irons for older men and make them feel macho... to me it's not about the loft as much as how far I could hit my clubs to fill the gaps... I don't need a club that fill a 250-225 gap, not important to me...

    Just like female clothing, it's reported that size 4 is used to be size 6 or 8... just to make women feel (stupidly) good about themselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471 View Post
    It was reported that for a driver we lose 3-5 yds every yr as we get older, I think there is some truth to that... maybe they make stronger lofted irons for older men and make them feel macho... to me it's not about the loft as much as how far I could hit my clubs to fill the gaps... I don't need a club that fill a 250-225 gap, not important to me...

    Just like female clothing, it's reported that size 4 is used to be size 6 or 8... just to make women feel (stupidly) good about themselves
    Impossible to tell with the advances in technology over the last 20 years. My father in law hits it about 10 yards shorter than he did 20 years ago and he's 72. However, because of technology he's only lost 10 yards. We will never know how much he's actually lost unless I put an old Taylormade Burner steel driver in his hands. Even then, we couldn't tell because he's not used to swinging that kind of club. I don't think you lose anywhere close to 3 to 5 yards per year. Maybe after your 75 years old. I play with these guys in their early 60's who are hitting the ball farther than ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Impossible to tell with the advances in technology over the last 20 years. My father in law hits it about 10 yards shorter than he did 20 years ago and he's 72. However, because of technology he's only lost 10 yards. We will never know how much he's actually lost unless I put an old Taylormade Burner steel driver in his hands. Even then, we couldn't tell because he's not used to swinging that kind of club. I don't think you lose anywhere close to 3 to 5 yards per year. Maybe after your 75 years old. I play with these guys in their early 60's who are hitting the ball farther than ever.
    Yes, you prove it to yourself... without new shaft technology, we could not keep up with previous distance.... If we stay with the same driver we would lose 3-5 yds a yr that's why lighter shaft and more responsive shafts help us to keep up with distance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pky6471 View Post
    It was reported that for a driver we lose 3-5 yds every yr as we get older, I think there is some truth to that... maybe they make stronger lofted irons for older men and make them feel macho... to me it's not about the loft as much as how far I could hit my clubs to fill the gaps... I don't need a club that fill a 250-225 gap, not important to me...

    Just like female clothing, it's reported that size 4 is used to be size 6 or 8... just to make women feel (stupidly) good about themselves
    Where does it end...Do they make negative sizes yet, or do skinny woman have to wear baggy clothes?

    You have to give the marketing and sales departments credit, strengthening of the short irons has done a lot for gap wedge sales.
    The views expressed by The Purist do not necessarily represent the views of The Purist. Any posts by the Purist should not be relied upon for truth or accuracy, and should be viewed at your own risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Good question. I was drawn to the aesthetics, at least until they showed up at my door. They also had some decent testimonials when I looked around the net so I'm not going to cast them off just yet.
    THE CGB max fetches a high price for used clubs. I almost picked up a set of like new ones at play it again sports 4-9 for $89 but I don't like buying partial sets. I think it's a decent looking iron for Super Game Improvement and you will have no problem reselling them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    Yeah not really sure why you are bothering with the CGB Max demo.
    Good question. I was drawn to the aesthetics, at least until they showed up at my door. They also had some decent testimonials when I looked around the net so I'm not going to cast them off just yet.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    THE CGB max fetches a high price for used clubs. I almost picked up a set of like new ones at play it again sports 4-9 for $89 but I don't like buying partial sets. I think it's a decent looking iron for Super Game Improvement and you will have no problem reselling them.
    Resaleability is a good point to keep in mind. I bought my X-18s used for $150, and assume they'll still fetch over $100 on ebay. $50 for 3 years' rent ain't bad.

    That's also a problem I'll have to overcome if I decide I like the JPX 800s. There's virtually no used market for a left hander, and since they're a relatively new series, I imagine they'll depreciate significantly over the next couple of years.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Resaleability is a good point to keep in mind. I bought my X-18s used for $150, and assume they'll still fetch over $100 on ebay. $50 for 3 years' rent ain't bad.

    That's also a problem I'll have to overcome if I decide I like the JPX 800s. There's virtually no used market for a left hander, and since they're a relatively new series, I imagine they'll depreciate significantly over the next couple of years.
    I saw a used set of left-handed Mizuno MP-19 irons at Golf Galaxy. First time I've ever seen that set. I believe it's the set Nick Faldo won his first major with.

    At golfmart all of the used left-handed sets are heavily discounted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    They are very nice and our local retailer has them on special much lower than the other OEM's as you say. But the lofts would make Nifty have fits. Lofts of 20°, 22°, 24° in the 3, 4 & 5 irons? WTF? A 4° loft increment between 3 clubs? A 24° is a 4 iron in anybodies book. Then there is a 5° loft increment between the 39° 9 iron and 44° pitching wedge.

    I know we needn't get so hung up on the lofts but holy crap. Where will it end? Will next years model have a 40° pitching wedge or 39°? What do you think?
    I had the lofts tweaked on my set. Bent the 44 pw to 43 and added a 47 from another set. Bent the 4 to 20, left the 5 at 23 and then 4 degree gaps up to pw so I sorted all that out.
    I don't think NB would be happy with any OEM's specs. He has said as much.
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    I just got back from the range and figured I'd share my initial thoughts to the JPX 800, CGB Max 3, and X-18 showdown. First off, I added a few more clubs I had lying around: Nike Slingshot, Ping G5, and Taylor Made RAC OS (2005).

    I won't go into a lot of detail since I'd like to test them 2 or 3 times before giving a final verdict, but Sooner was right; the JPX 800s shouldn't be legal. Unbelievable distance and forgiveness. The TM CGB Max 3 was a nice club. It looks huge at set-up, but it seemed longer and more forgiving than my current X-18s. One final note: Nike should be ashamed of themselves. I think I'd rather be swinging a putter than that friggin piece of garbage Slingshot. I feel sorry for whoever owns those clubs.

    Anyway, more to follow.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    I saw a used set of left-handed Mizuno MP-19 irons at Golf Galaxy. First time I've ever seen that set. I believe it's the set Nick Faldo won his first major with.

    At golfmart all of the used left-handed sets are heavily discounted.

    The MP-19 was one of the most beautiful irons I've ever seen, but Faldo didn't play it because for whatever reason, it was a lefthand only model.

    The Mizuno that Faldo did play had to be beautiful as well, however, because that era Mizuno was all around a consistently pretty golf club. Still tough to beat them from an aesthetics viewpoint.

    There were some models not exported to the US that looked a lot like MP-19s as I recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I just got back from the range and figured I'd share my initial thoughts to the JPX 800, CGB Max 3, and X-18 showdown. First off, I added a few more clubs I had lying around: Nike Slingshot, Ping G5, and Taylor Made RAC OS (2005).

    I won't go into a lot of detail since I'd like to test them 2 or 3 times before giving a final verdict, but Sooner was right; the JPX 800s shouldn't be legal. Unbelievable distance and forgiveness. The TM CGB Max 3 was a nice club. It looks huge at set-up, but it seemed longer and more forgiving than my current X-18s. One final note: Nike should be ashamed of themselves. I think I'd rather be swinging a putter than that friggin piece of garbage Slingshot. I feel sorry for whoever owns those clubs.

    Anyway, more to follow.

    2 or 3 more times?

    I don't know how you can be so patient and methodical especially since you are only testing 6 irons. The long and short irons can vary significantly between sets too. What more do you expect to learn?

    Just get the JPX 800s already.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    I finally got to the range enough times to justify a legitimate review of the following clubs:

    Callaway X-18 with Uniflex graphite regular (stock)

    Ball flight - High and straight. Tough not to like.
    Distance - Excellent. I can hit the 6-iron about 170.
    Sound - They make a nice thwack sound when hit well.
    Forgiveness - Excellent
    Feel - They don't give great feedback when the ball is struck well. Pure shots don't feel much different than less than pure shots. Everything feels muted.
    Looks - This is obviously subjective, but I like their design. They are a tad chunky and have a thick top-line though.

    TaylorMade r7 CGB Max III with TM regular steel (stock)

    Ball flight - Even higher than the Callaways, but dead straight.
    Distance - Excellent. About the same as the Callaways, if not a tad longer.
    Sound - Makes a punier 'tack' sound although it's something I could get used to.
    Forgiveness - The easiest to hit of the bunch. Not much effort is necessary to get the ball to launch off the face.
    Feel - Purer shots give a more rewarding feel than the X-18s, but it feels like you're swinging a big piece of plastic.
    Looks - These things are huge. The back of the club is cool looking and so is the black steel, but the thick top-line is a turn off.

    Ping G5 with CS Lite Steel regular (stock)

    Ball flight - Mid-to-high draw. I could tell this club had the most offset.
    Distance - On par with the Callaway and TM
    Sound - Nothing special
    Forgiveness - Excellent.
    Feel - On par with the Callaway and TM
    Looks - I'm usually not a big fan of Ping's aesthetics, but these aren't shabby looking. The additional offset seems obvious.

    Mizuno JPX 800 with DG XP R300 steel (stock)

    Ball flight - Mid-to-high, penetrating, straight ball flight. I liked this ball flight the best.
    Distance - Best of the bunch. Maybe as much as 5 extra yards on the 6-iron
    Sound - Nothing special
    Forgiveness - Excellent. Mishits either went straight or slightly left (I'm left handed)
    Feel - Awesome feedback when the ball is hit pure. None of the other clubs had this ability.
    Looks - Gorgeous. Thinnest top-line of the clubs.

    I had also tested the Nike Slingshot, but eliminated that from the process after only a few swings. It's a total piece of garbage.

    Needless to say, I'm going to pick up a set of the Mizunos. I already bought a set with Project X graphite shafts, but quickly realized they aren't right for my swing. The stock DG R300s are a nice fit.
    I keeps it real.

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    Probably all excellent clubs, buddha, but each of them is far too busy looking for my eye.

    The four models that I've played this year--Titleist DCI 962; Miura MC-102; King Cobra Oversize; Wishon 870Ti--all look so much more plain without the colorful graphics on the back. And the Wishons are a brand new current model.

    Aesthetics have probably changed TOO much over the period during which I've played for me to ever catch up with what's modern. If the fancier clubs are indeed technically superior, that's to my detriment, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I finally got to the range enough times to justify a legitimate review of the following clubs:

    Callaway X-18 with Uniflex graphite regular (stock)

    Ball flight - High and straight. Tough not to like.
    Distance - Excellent. I can hit the 6-iron about 170.
    Sound - They make a nice thwack sound when hit well.
    Forgiveness - Excellent
    Feel - They don't give great feedback when the ball is struck well. Pure shots don't feel much different than less than pure shots. Everything feels muted.
    Looks - This is obviously subjective, but I like their design. They are a tad chunky and have a thick top-line though.

    TaylorMade r7 CGB Max III with TM regular steel (stock)

    Ball flight - Even higher than the Callaways, but dead straight.
    Distance - Excellent. About the same as the Callaways, if not a tad longer.
    Sound - Makes a punier 'tack' sound although it's something I could get used to.
    Forgiveness - The easiest to hit of the bunch. Not much effort is necessary to get the ball to launch off the face.
    Feel - Purer shots give a more rewarding feel than the X-18s, but it feels like you're swinging a big piece of plastic.
    Looks - These things are huge. The back of the club is cool looking and so is the black steel, but the thick top-line is a turn off.

    Ping G5 with CS Lite Steel regular (stock)

    Ball flight - Mid-to-high draw. I could tell this club had the most offset.
    Distance - On par with the Callaway and TM
    Sound - Nothing special
    Forgiveness - Excellent.
    Feel - On par with the Callaway and TM
    Looks - I'm usually not a big fan of Ping's aesthetics, but these aren't shabby looking. The additional offset seems obvious.

    Mizuno JPX 800 with DG XP R300 steel (stock)

    Ball flight - Mid-to-high, penetrating, straight ball flight. I liked this ball flight the best.
    Distance - Best of the bunch. Maybe as much as 5 extra yards on the 6-iron
    Sound - Nothing special
    Forgiveness - Excellent. Mishits either went straight or slightly left (I'm left handed)
    Feel - Awesome feedback when the ball is hit pure. None of the other clubs had this ability.
    Looks - Gorgeous. Thinnest top-line of the clubs.

    I had also tested the Nike Slingshot, but eliminated that from the process after only a few swings. It's a total piece of garbage.

    Needless to say, I'm going to pick up a set of the Mizunos. I already bought a set with Project X graphite shafts, but quickly realized they aren't right for my swing. The stock DG R300s are a nice fit.
    Good choice in sticking with the stock shaft on this set. I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical about the stock shaft whenever I received mine (I have stiff instead of regular) but after a couple of rounds it became evident that Mizuno knew what they were doing with this combination. I KNOW that you are going to enjoy them.

    Mizuno irons -- made by Hattori Hanzo, forged in the fires of Mt. Fujiyama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerBS View Post
    I KNOW that you are going to enjoy them.
    I better, or else I'm blaming you for turning me on to them.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    I better, or else I'm blaming you for turning me on to them.

    NOBODY buys the off-the-wall type of gear to which I'm usually attracted.

    In this regard, I've got a good shot to go blame free!

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    Perhaps it's my materialistic nature, but I just can't buy non-name brand clubs.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Perhaps it's my materialistic nature, but I just can't buy non-name brand clubs.
    I don't buy cheap, no-name clubs either. I buy expensive boutique brand clubs with no resale value. One reason I keep them.

    The OEMs don't market to eccentrics like myself, apparently, because they don't have much that I like.

    (I do like Ping woods and Mizuno irons, but I like other stuff better.)

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    Damn listening to you guys raving about the JPX 800s has me tempted. There is a near new set for sale on our local website. Some guy played 9 holes with them and returned them. I've been hitting em poorly lately and the club ho in me is telling me I need something more forgiving than the MP58s.

    Somebody talk me out of it!

    BTW Congrats Buddha glad you're liking them.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    Somebody talk me out of it!
    You won't get any help from me.
    I keeps it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Player View Post
    I've been hitting em poorly lately and the club ho in me is telling me I need something more forgiving than the MP58s.

    Explain the technology of the MP-58 to me, Kiwi. I have irons, 870Tis, that also use titanium, but just the thin face is titanium surrounded by a heavier forged steel frame. It is supposed to increase the perimeter weighting as well as the COR.

    MP-58s seem to have two strips of titanium behind the face to create a muscle back that's lighter than the face. Do you understand the idea behind that? In situations like that, we usually see a heavier than steel metal, tungsten or brass used, don't we?

    The MP-53 looks like the most forgiving in the MP series, but of course, I'm just going by appearance and don't really know. I really like their looks, though. Probably my favorite major OEM iron in looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buddha33 View Post
    Perhaps it's my materialistic nature, but I just can't buy non-name brand clubs.
    I think you made a solid choice with the JPX 800 irons. The only Callaway X series iron that I thought felt good was the X-20. I'm sure the JPX 800s feel even better and I like the small amount of offset.

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    Good choice Buddha, i was allowed to get the jpx 800 pro's and have been playing them for about a month now. I ended up with 5-9 iron and my pw is an mp52. The 800's just have so much more forgiveness without losing much in the feel dept. Both my sets of mizzies have nippon reg shafts, so a direct comparison of the heads was easy for me. My mate who sold me the 800's decided to go with mp53's. I had a hit with them as well and i couldn't tell any difference between them and the 800 pro's. All great irons. One day i will get a set of mizzy blades just for fun.
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    It's funny how we are all so opinionated in our choices, while the best players in the world will play with whomever gives them the best endorsement deal. They don't care.

    Their stuff looks cosmetically like that sold at Golf Galaxie, but I'll bet that all the technical metrics are provided to order in the company's custom shop. In such an instance, they'd get whatever they wanted from whomever signed them.

    As much as I love my 870Tis, for example, I can imagine how much more I'd love them if the original forging dies were made just for me. You don't think Tiger and Phil get that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    It's funny how we are all so opinionated in our choices, while the best players in the world will play with whomever gives them the best endorsement deal. They don't care.

    Their stuff looks cosmetically like that sold at Golf Galaxie, but I'll bet that all the technical metrics are provided to order in the company's custom shop. In such an instance, they'd get whatever they wanted from whomever signed them.

    As much as I love my 870Tis, for example, I can imagine how much more I'd love them if the original forging dies were made just for me. You don't think Tiger and Phil get that?
    You can best believe that the pros would be very opinionated about their choices if they had to play stuff with off the rack specs like we do. Though honestly, who of truly knows what is "best" for us? We only know what we have been able to try, then make our limited choices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs View Post
    You can best believe that the pros would be very opinionated about their choices if they had to play stuff with off the rack specs like we do. Though honestly, who of truly knows what is "best" for us? We only know what we have been able to try, then make our limited choices.
    Good point, but it also depends on how much of a "gearhead" inclination that one has.

    For example, in an extreme case like myself, I am willing to have fewer lofts in my set in order to duplicate lofts and have more choice of club TYPES for specific shots.

    In the discussion of the Open at Olympic, I mentioned how none of the entrants were carrying old fashioned curved leading edge wedges that would have helped them in some of that greenside rough. To have that, however, one would probably be duplicating wedge lofts--have two of about the same loft, one for clean fairway lies and one for sand and rough.

    Same thing with fairway woods, hybrids, and long irons. I really like a forgiving, perimeter- weighted long iron for use off the tee only, but I'd probably want that same loft in a hi-loft fairway wood.

    What does this entail? Having the spread between your loft increments greater, and the spread between your length increments greater.

    But the dies for forging (or casts for casting) don't accomodate this. Bending lofts changes bounce, and changing length increments completely throws off swingwight considerations. Tom Wishon explained to me his computer program that illustrates this in an e-mail.

    If one wants EXACTLY what one wants, then the dies and casts have to be reengineered first and then custom made.

    And, at a cost, it can easily be done.

    But not for us unless we're both very wealthy AND willing to spend some of that wealth for this service.

    For Tiger and Phil who are paid to play their gear, and whose success is very important to the manufacturer, these services are probably more available. Their special requests would be nothing like mine, of course, but I'm sure that they have them.
    Last edited by NiftyNiblick; 06-21-2012 at 09:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Good point, but it also depends on how much of a "gearhead" inclination that one has.

    For example, in an extreme case like myself, I am willing to have fewer lofts in my set in order to duplicate lofts and have more choice of club TYPES for specific shots.

    In the discussion of the Open at Olympic, I mentioned how none of the entrants were carrying old fashioned curved leading edge wedges that would have helped them in some of that greenside rough. To have that, however, one would probably be duplicating wedge lofts--have two of about the same loft, one for clean fairway lies and one for sand and rough.

    Same thing with fairway woods, hybrids, and long irons. I really like a forgiving, perimeter- weighted long iron for use off the tee only, but I'd probably want that same loft in a hi-loft fairway wood.

    What does this entail? Having the spread between your loft increments greater, and the spread between your length increments greater.

    But the dies for forging (or casts for casting) don't accomodate this. Bending lofts changes bounce, and changing length increments completely throws off swingwight considerations. Tom Wishon explained to me his computer program that illustrates this in an e-mail.

    If one wants EXACTLY what one wants, then the dies and casts have to be reengineered first and then custom made.

    And, at a cost, it can easily be done.

    But not for us unless we're both very wealthy AND willing to spend some of that wealth for this service.

    For Tiger and Phil who are paid to play their gear, and whose success is very important to the manufacturer, these services are probably more available. Their special requests would be nothing like mine, of course, but I'm sure that they have them.
    Yes I am certain Tiger would have "special requests".
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldplayer View Post
    Yes I am certain Tiger would have "special requests".
    Sergio is said to have taken new irons given to him by Taylor and taken the heads to the grinding wheel to get the soles the way he likes them.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Sergio is said to have taken new irons given to him by Taylor and taken the heads to the grinding wheel to get the soles the way he likes them.
    Speaking of new Taylor irons, I just picked up a set of Taylor Made Rac Combo Coin Forged Irons, 3-PW, TP Dynamic Gold S300 with Taylor grips. Brand spankin' new for $150. Plus the guy threw in a Taylormade RAC SW for free. Beautiful irons. I attached a pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	z taylor rac 1.JPG 
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    Here's another pic. The shizzle.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	z taylor rac 3.JPG 
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    I think a good club maker can give you a club fitting close enough to perfect that you wouldnt notice the difference without changing the dies. Remember what Costanza says when he tells you they are a perfect fit: "Its not a lie if you believe it"
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Here's another pic. The shizzle.
    sh$$$$t... I like this look

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Sergio is said to have taken new irons given to him by Taylor and taken the heads to the grinding wheel to get the soles the way he likes them.
    Yes I am certain Tiger would have "special requests".

    sh$$$t... no wonder why they strike a ball better than us

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Speaking of new Taylor irons, I just picked up a set of Taylor Made Rac Combo Coin Forged Irons, 3-PW, TP Dynamic Gold S300 with Taylor grips. Brand spankin' new for $150. Plus the guy threw in a Taylormade RAC SW for free. Beautiful irons. I attached a pic.
    Those are beautiful. I thought I saw a set of those on Ebay a day or two ago. Is that the set? By the way, the Golf Gaxaxy Nearest Me still had a set (3-PW) of the Taylor 300 forged irons for under $100. Some folks on some golf forum, maybe this one, said that some of those are Miura-forged. The set near me only has a serial number engraved in the hosel of the 5 iron. If I recall, they have shafts that would be unfriendly to me like Dynamic Gold S300 or Rifle 6.0 or 6.5.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Those are beautiful. I thought I saw a set of those on Ebay a day or two ago. Is that the set? By the way, the Golf Gaxaxy Nearest Me still had a set (3-PW) of the Taylor 300 forged irons for under $100. Some folks on some golf forum, maybe this one, said that some of those are Miura-forged. The set near me only has a serial number engraved in the hosel of the 5 iron. If I recall, they have shafts that would be unfriendly to me like Dynamic Gold S300 or Rifle 6.0 or 6.5.
    Most of the Taylor 300 forged irons I've seen have a high-gloss chrome finish but one time I ran across a set that I had never seen before in a satin finish. They were near mint condition and looked just slightly different than the ones you normally see. I wonder if Dr. Muira had personally forged them in his private cellar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    Most of the Taylor 300 forged irons I've seen have a high-gloss chrome finish but one time I ran across a set that I had never seen before in a satin finish. They were near mint condition and looked just slightly different than the ones you normally see. I wonder if Dr. Muira had personally forged them in his private cellar.
    I think that 12 may be the expert on the 300's. Where is he?
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Those are beautiful. I thought I saw a set of those on Ebay a day or two ago. Is that the set? By the way, the Golf Gaxaxy Nearest Me still had a set (3-PW) of the Taylor 300 forged irons for under $100. Some folks on some golf forum, maybe this one, said that some of those are Miura-forged. The set near me only has a serial number engraved in the hosel of the 5 iron. If I recall, they have shafts that would be unfriendly to me like Dynamic Gold S300 or Rifle 6.0 or 6.5.
    No, I bought them off a guy on Craigslist. He drove a Termite Inspection truck and acted like he was the greatest golf club dealer on the planet. I guess he looks for golf deals all over the place and then resells the stuff. Kind of like me but much less refined. My first thought is that he probably had termites crawling around in his scruffy beard. I tried to get him to sell me a Titleist 909 hybrid for $30 but he wouldn't bite. Tough to negotiate with a seasoned golf club negotiator. However, I do think I got the best of him where the irons are concerned because they are new and I bet I can sell them on Ebay for a profit of at least $75.

    Adios Muchachos!

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    Quote Originally Posted by famousdavis View Post
    No, I bought them off a guy on Craigslist. He drove a Termite Inspection truck and acted like he was the greatest golf club dealer on the planet. I guess he looks for golf deals all over the place and then resells the stuff. Kind of like me but much less refined. My first thought is that he probably had termites crawling around in his scruffy beard. I tried to get him to sell me a Titleist 909 hybrid for $30 but he wouldn't bite. Tough to negotiate with a seasoned golf club negotiator. However, I do think I got the best of him where the irons are concerned because they are new and I bet I can sell them on Ebay for a profit of at least $75.

    Adios Muchachos!
    I just checked Ebay and a set of RAC coin forged irons sold for $142 buy it now. The photos show well worn faces on the shorter irons. I doubt they made many sets of those.
    Mostly Taylormade clubs now except for two Ping I25 hybrids, Mizuno 54 & Callaway 56 wedges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    I think that 12 may be the expert on the 300's. Where is he?
    Oldplayer is your man. The 300's are often stated as one of his all time favourites. 12 has a set too but it was OP who put him onto them.
    I chose the road less traveled.

    Now where the f#ck am I?

  93. #93
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    Tour Edge Exotics EX3 irons

    Bar none, the best irons for mid to high handicappers (like myself). You won't find them new anymore unfortunately, but some used sets come up periodically on Ebay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dld6928 View Post
    Bar none, the best irons for mid to high handicappers (like myself). You won't find them new anymore unfortunately, but some used sets come up periodically on Ebay.
    In the only photo I've seen of the Tour Edge iron that you mention, the face to back camber seems excessive to me (as on many major OEM irons today). I like the sole to be a little flatter and sharper face to back.

    Heel to toe radius is fine, but too much face to back camber makes me hit the ball thin from a tight fairway lie, just like too much bounce. My swing plane is too flat for that.

    That's why generalizations about what clubs are best for what level of play don't always work. Swing planes vary at all levels of play.

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