Lay it off for accuracy and distance

[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s&feature=plcp

Take it outside to keep the clubhead outside your hands, then roll it flat behind you. That engages your hips and tucks your dominant arm elbow, prepares you for a connected downswing with a late release. The ball goes straight and long.

This is INFINITELY better than the typical "all arms" OTT back foot swing of most amateurs.

It is not easy to learn, but this is the path to low single digit golf for all amateurs. I am 71 and hitting it 240+ down the middle. I hit 3w from tight lies 200+ and arrow straight. Fairways and greens. If you want to lower your average scores, ask your teaching pro to teach you to lay it off (like he does if he is a competitive player himself!)

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

You back already? What happened to:

You are identified by those you hang out with.

I am gone.

Turn out the lights when you finish.

Larry

[mongrel]

That's a pretty good swing for a 71 year old. Even a good one for a 17 year old. It looks a lot better than previous swings he has posted. I don't get video'd but I imagine my decent driver swings might look a bit like this one albeit in mirror image.

[Larryrsf]

That's a pretty good swing for a 71 year old. Even a good one for a 17 year old. It looks a lot better than previous swings he has posted. I don't get video'd but I imagine my decent driver swings might look a bit like this one albeit in mirror image.

Thanks Mongrel,

I am still working on it. The trick really is to give ourselves time on top to shift, tilt, and lay it off all simultaneously. There really isn't any rush, but I rush it too often. When we have ourselves in the perfect top position, it is just like a batter poised for the pitch. When he sees the ball, that triggers him to start with hips, then shoulders, then arms, then hands and then the club lagging and accelerating. The correct swing is a "cascade" of moves, each subsequent move building on the accomplishment of the previous one, setting up a foundation, to quote Hogan.

And much like a batter, you will notice that you bring your dominant elbow in tight and that forearm and hand 'down and under' with the palm up, in the classic "skipping a flat rock" feeling that all good players feel.

It generates easy clubhead speed at impact and if we have our wrists set properly during the backswing, the layoff creates the delayed release we all want. If we setup with the clubhead correctly aligned, the ball goes long and straight. The source of power is the hips turning toward the target.

I suggest a lesson. Have a pro show you how to do it and then walk you through the moves. Then have him watch you do it in slow motion until you have it down. VERY likely he will need to place your club in the correct laid off position on top. That is VERY different for most golfers, it will feel pretty strange at first. I doubt most of us can do it by ourselves.

Good luck!

Larry

[famousdavis]

I shot 76 on Sunday. Didn't even go to the range.

[Larryrsf]

I shot 76 on Sunday. Didn't even go to the range.

When you play some courses, such as most military courses that cater to total beginners, there is no rough. So you could miss every fairway and still scrape it onto the greens.

That is not golf to me. I take lessons and work on my swing because I want to hit THE MIDDLE of fairways and then hit greens from there. I would walk off in disgust if I could only play "recovery" golf caused by horrible fundamentals all day. The score from that is meaningless-- because that kind of game cannot travel. On the Dinah Shore at Mission Hills or Coto De Caza in Orange County that swing would lose 10 balls and score 100+. Not a lota fun!

Larry

[Pky6471]

When you play some courses, such as most military courses that cater to total beginners, there is no rough. So you could miss every fairway and still scrape it onto the greens.

Larry

FD... Sound like an invitation for a match, I would not turn down a match against Larry... I think it would be fun

[spanqdoggie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s&feature=plcp

Take it outside to keep the clubhead outside your hands, then roll it flat behind you. That engages your hips and tucks your dominant arm elbow, prepares you for a connected downswing with a late release. The ball goes straight and long.

This is INFINITELY better than the typical "all arms" OTT back foot swing of most amateurs.

It is not easy to learn, but this is the path to low single digit golf for all amateurs. I am 71 and hitting it 240+ down the middle. I hit 3w from tight lies 200+ and arrow straight. Fairways and greens. If you want to lower your average scores, ask your teaching pro to teach you to lay it off (like he does if he is a competitive player himself!)

Larry

[famousdavis]

When you play some courses, such as most military courses that cater to total beginners, there is no rough. So you could miss every fairway and still scrape it onto the greens.

That is not golf to me. I take lessons and work on my swing because I want to hit THE MIDDLE of fairways and then hit greens from there. I would walk off in disgust if I could only play "recovery" golf caused by horrible fundamentals all day. The score from that is meaningless-- because that kind of game cannot travel. On the Dinah Shore at Mission Hills or Coto De Caza in Orange County that swing would lose 10 balls and score 100+. Not a lota fun!

Larry

The military course I play is 6800 yards. You couldn't hit half of the greens in regulation.

Going to a dirt driving range and hitting rock balls off of mats is not golf. But, hey, if you think it's fun go right ahead.

Doesn't matter the course, I'd school you every day and you know it. That's why you act like a chicken every time anyone from GR challenges you to a match. Colonel Sanders wouldn't even pick you.

[mongrel]

Larry, playing shots from rough is an integral part of the game and until one learns to deal with it, one is not a complete player. I've played in CA, NV and Utah a few times over the years and never encountered any rough higher than an inch and even then it was mostly burned out dry grass which is a piece of cake. Back here in the Mid Atlantic, even the doggiest municipal tracks have nasty rye and fescue off the fairways that makes wedge lay-ups mandatory when it has been watered excessively or it has been rainy for a week or more. Now some of the courses we play have been designed by slightly retarded farmers who have routed fairways such that the only level lies are off the fairways in the rough. I will aim my drives to land in those areas rather than have a side-hill down-hill second shot from the fairway. In those cases, the odds favor the rough. Now there are two courses in southern Pennsylvania that my group plays multiple times per year. Both were designed and built since the early '90's are a links-styled. One of the courses features thick fescue rough on both sides of the fairways with narrow first cut areas. The proprietor has that first cut up to the putting surfaces of every green. So if you miss a green by a foot, you are required to execute some sort of lob or sand wedge chunk shot with the greens slicker than Slick Willie. The other course has no heavy rough anywhere and none around the greens. But it has mounds and humps and bumps everywhere and plays much harder for me than the fescue rough course.

The only real rough I've seen in California is on TV at Riviera with its Kykuyuo or however its spelled. Reminds me of the thick Bermuda found in Florida. I don't mind that Bermuda either. You just have to have enough clubhead speed and it has almost no effect with well struck irons.

[Larryrsf]

The military course I play is 6800 yards. You couldn't hit half of the greens in regulation.

Going to a dirt driving range and hitting rock balls off of mats is not golf. But, hey, if you think it's fun go right ahead.

Doesn't matter the course, I'd school you every day and you know it. That's why you act like a chicken every time anyone from GR challenges you to a match. Colonel Sanders wouldn't even pick you.

Yada, yada, yada. Fundamentals are fundamentals and bringing it down on-plane is required to hit them straight consistently. If you can do that you have a good swing.

If you can't do that, you are an accident waiting to happen. ANY pressure and you collapse, start making excuses, "having a bad day," etc,

Seems I remember you starting with Kevin at DMGC and him seeing your swing and telling you that you have serious fundamental problems. You didn't return to take lessons with him, what did you do about those poor fundamentals?

Larry

[Larryrsf]

Larry, playing shots from rough is an integral part of the game and until one learns to deal with it, one is not a complete player. I've played in CA, NV and Utah a few times over the years and never encountered any rough higher than an inch and even then it was mostly burned out dry grass which is a piece of cake. Back here in the Mid Atlantic, even the doggiest municipal tracks have nasty rye and fescue off the fairways that makes wedge lay-ups mandatory when it has been watered excessively or it has been rainy for a week or more. Now some of the courses we play have been designed by slightly retarded farmers who have routed fairways such that the only level lies are off the fairways in the rough. I will aim my drives to land in those areas rather than have a side-hill down-hill second shot from the fairway. In those cases, the odds favor the rough. Now there are two courses in southern Pennsylvania that my group plays multiple times per year. Both were designed and built since the early '90's are a links-styled. One of the courses features thick fescue rough on both sides of the fairways with narrow first cut areas. The proprietor has that first cut up to the putting surfaces of every green. So if you miss a green by a foot, you are required to execute some sort of lob or sand wedge chunk shot with the greens slicker than Slick Willie. The other course has no heavy rough anywhere and none around the greens. But it has mounds and humps and bumps everywhere and plays much harder for me than the fescue rough course.

The only real rough I've seen in California is on TV at Riviera with its Kykuyuo or however its spelled. Reminds me of the thick Bermuda found in Florida. I don't mind that Bermuda either. You just have to have enough clubhead speed and it has almost no effect with well struck irons.

All tough courses have serious rough. On courses with a higher slope rating, the rough can hide a ball. Torrey Pines South in tournament condition has rough 3" high, you have to look straight down on a ball to see it and you have to use a SW to hit it 40 yards back to the fairway. They intend the rough to cost you at least a stroke for missing the fairway.

Coto De Caza has a 20 foot drop just off the fairways and the fairways slope toward that drop on both sides. Miss the fairway and lose your ball. Combine that with humps everywhere so that there are essentially no level lies. Can you hit your 3w 200 yards from a downhill lie sloping away from you? Nope. Swing hard and it will be another lost ball.

So my goal is to play like Gene Littler plays. He doesn't try to hit it over the horizon but smoothly strokes it down the middle with a 70% effort. He plays the same ball 18 holes REGARDLESS of the punitive rough or hazards of the course because he keeps it in play, DUH! Smart beats strong every time.

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

Yada, yada, yada. Fundamentals are fundamentals and bringing it down on-plane is required to hit them straight consistently. If you can do that you have a good swing.

If you can't do that, you are an accident waiting to happen. ANY pressure and you collapse, start making excuses, "having a bad day," etc,

Seems I remember you starting with Kevin at DMGC and him seeing your swing and telling you that you have serious fundamental problems. You didn't return to take lessons with him, what did you do about those poor fundamentals?

Larry

I'll tell you what he does Larry. He compensates for those 'poor fundamentals', squares the club face at impact and hits a beautiful draw down the middle that finds most fairways and most greens. When he misses the green he has a good short game and chips it close and drains the putt. That's what good golfers do. He consistently shoots in the 70's something you can only dream about despite all the hundreds of lessons you've wasted your money on. So keep enjoying your dirt range sessions and leave the real golf to us. We don't want short knocking, slow playing old fools like you holding up the course anyway.

[Larryrsf]

I'll tell you what he does Larry. He compensates for those 'poor fundamentals', squares the club face at impact and hits a beautiful draw down the middle that finds most fairways and most greens. When he misses the green he has a good short game and chips it close and drains the putt. That's what good golfers do. He consistently shoots in the 70's something you can only dream about despite all the hundreds of lessons you've wasted your money on. So keep enjoying your dirt range sessions and leave the real golf to us. We don't want short knocking, slow playing old fools like you holding up the course anyway.

Nice of you to say so!! What a classy guy!

Post a video of your swing. Let us see the basis of your bravado.

Larry

[alangbaker]

When you play some courses, such as most military courses that cater to total beginners, there is no rough. So you could miss every fairway and still scrape it onto the greens.

That is not golf to me. I take lessons and work on my swing because I want to hit THE MIDDLE of fairways and then hit greens from there. I would walk off in disgust if I could only play "recovery" golf caused by horrible fundamentals all day. The score from that is meaningless-- because that kind of game cannot travel. On the Dinah Shore at Mission Hills or Coto De Caza in Orange County that swing would lose 10 balls and score 100+. Not a lota fun!

But you've claimed with regularity that you ALREADY hit fairways and greens, Larry.

So were you lying last month, or last year, or the year before that...

...or nearly 10 years ago...

...when you claimed you could hit "all the fairways".

And I can beat you on any course you care to name. Straight up, you have no chance.

[alangbaker]

Larry, playing shots from rough is an integral part of the game and until one learns to deal with it, one is not a complete player. I've played in CA, NV and Utah a few times over the years and never encountered any rough higher than an inch and even then it was mostly burned out dry grass which is a piece of cake. Back here in the Mid Atlantic, even the doggiest municipal tracks have nasty rye and fescue off the fairways that makes wedge lay-ups mandatory when it has been watered excessively or it has been rainy for a week or more. Now some of the courses we play have been designed by slightly retarded farmers who have routed fairways such that the only level lies are off the fairways in the rough. I will aim my drives to land in those areas rather than have a side-hill down-hill second shot from the fairway. In those cases, the odds favor the rough. Now there are two courses in southern Pennsylvania that my group plays multiple times per year. Both were designed and built since the early '90's are a links-styled. One of the courses features thick fescue rough on both sides of the fairways with narrow first cut areas. The proprietor has that first cut up to the putting surfaces of every green. So if you miss a green by a foot, you are required to execute some sort of lob or sand wedge chunk shot with the greens slicker than Slick Willie. The other course has no heavy rough anywhere and none around the greens. But it has mounds and humps and bumps everywhere and plays much harder for me than the fescue rough course.

The only real rough I've seen in California is on TV at Riviera with its Kykuyuo or however its spelled. Reminds me of the thick Bermuda found in Florida. I don't mind that Bermuda either. You just have to have enough clubhead speed and it has almost no effect with well struck irons.

What Larry regularly ignores is that the very best players in the world—not just the run of the mill PGA Tour pro, but the top players—only hit the a little more than 70% of the time. This is not the guys who swing for the fences, but the players who have to be accurate because they're not long: Jerry Kelly (179th in driving distance), Tim Clark (178th).

So when Larry talks about "hitting all the fairways" what he's really telling us is that he doesn't actually play the game at all.

[alangbaker]

All tough courses have serious rough. On courses with a higher slope rating, the rough can hide a ball. Torrey Pines South in tournament condition has rough 3" high, you have to look straight down on a ball to see it and you have to use a SW to hit it 40 yards back to the fairway. They intend the rough to cost you at least a stroke for missing the fairway.

Coto De Caza has a 20 foot drop just off the fairways and the fairways slope toward that drop on both sides. Miss the fairway and lose your ball. Combine that with humps everywhere so that there are essentially no level lies. Can you hit your 3w 200 yards from a downhill lie sloping away from you? Nope. Swing hard and it will be another lost ball.

So my goal is to play like Gene Littler plays. He doesn't try to hit it over the horizon but smoothly strokes it down the middle with a 70% effort. He plays the same ball 18 holes REGARDLESS of the punitive rough or hazards of the course because he keeps it in play, DUH! Smart beats strong every time.

But you couldn't beat anyone then. You're neither strong nor smart.

[mongrel]

All tough courses have serious rough. On courses with a higher slope rating, the rough can hide a ball. Torrey Pines South in tournament condition has rough 3" high, you have to look straight down on a ball to see it and you have to use a SW to hit it 40 yards back to the fairway. They intend the rough to cost you at least a stroke for missing the fairway.

Coto De Caza has a 20 foot drop just off the fairways and the fairways slope toward that drop on both sides. Miss the fairway and lose your ball. Combine that with humps everywhere so that there are essentially no level lies. Can you hit your 3w 200 yards from a downhill lie sloping away from you? Nope. Swing hard and it will be another lost ball.

So my goal is to play like Gene Littler plays. He doesn't try to hit it over the horizon but smoothly strokes it down the middle with a 70% effort. He plays the same ball 18 holes REGARDLESS of the punitive rough or hazards of the course because he keeps it in play, DUH! Smart beats strong every time.

Larry

Augusta National has no serious rough the second week every April and there are probably fewer than ten members of this forum world-wide who could break 100 on it from the Masters tees in Masters condition. Of course Torrey South has thick rough tournament week. I was not referring to tour set-ups. Just the regular courses 99% of us play. There are three private clubs within 20 minutes of where I live that were built on parcels 96 acres or less and none of them plays over 6,100 yards from the tips. I guarantee you that with 20 yard wide max fairways and greens that average less than 1,000 square feet, you would not break 100 on any of them your first or second tries. Members of these clubs with single digit caps would eat your typical West Coast courses for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[jt1135]

All tough courses have serious rough. On courses with a higher slope rating, the rough can hide a ball. Torrey Pines South in tournament condition has rough 3" high, you have to look straight down on a ball to see it and you have to use a SW to hit it 40 yards back to the fairway. They intend the rough to cost you at least a stroke for missing the fairway.

Coto De Caza has a 20 foot drop just off the fairways and the fairways slope toward that drop on both sides. Miss the fairway and lose your ball. Combine that with humps everywhere so that there are essentially no level lies. Can you hit your 3w 200 yards from a downhill lie sloping away from you? Nope. Swing hard and it will be another lost ball.

So my goal is to play like Gene Littler plays. He doesn't try to hit it over the horizon but smoothly strokes it down the middle with a 70% effort. He plays the same ball 18 holes REGARDLESS of the punitive rough or hazards of the course because he keeps it in play, DUH! Smart beats strong every time.

Larry

After looking at some pics on the net Coto De Caza looks nice. Not many trees, fairly wide fairways with very little rough and decent sized greens. Kind of a California version of a links course?

[spanqdoggie]

Yada, yada, yada. Fundamentals are fundamentals and bringing it down on-plane is required to hit them straight consistently. If you can do that you have a good swing.

If you can't do that, you are an accident waiting to happen. ANY pressure and you collapse, start making excuses, "having a bad day," etc,

Seems I remember you starting with Kevin at DMGC and him seeing your swing and telling you that you have serious fundamental problems. You didn't return to take lessons with him, what did you do about those poor fundamentals?

Larry

[spanqdoggie]

Nice of you to say so!! What a classy guy!

Post a video of your swing. Let us see the basis of your bravado.

Larry

[rooboy]

Yada, yada, yada. Fundamentals are fundamentals and bringing it down on-plane is required to hit them straight consistently. If you can do that you have a good swing.

If you can't do that, you are an accident waiting to happen. ANY pressure and you collapse, start making excuses, "having a bad day," etc,

Seems I remember you starting with Kevin at DMGC and him seeing your swing and telling you that you have serious fundamental problems. You didn't return to take lessons with him, what did you do about those poor fundamentals?

Larry

Just so i'm understanding, which plane is on plane? Shaft,shoulder,elbow, or some other one? And while you are at it, what are the fundamentals? Grip - don't think so, too many champions have had a variety of grips. Stance - nah, great players have had open,closed,square. Swing path, again lots of good players have had in to out,out to in etc. What else could there be?? I'm thinking it might be control your impact point, control the curvature of the ball, and do it with enough power to play the game. No one style of swing suits everybody, its what ever works for you. And thats why most think you are a ******** Larry, you keep believing that what will work for you is the answer for everyone.

[Kiwi Player]

Just so i'm understanding, which plane is on plane? Shaft,shoulder,elbow, or some other one? And while you are at it, what are the fundamentals? Grip - don't think so, too many champions have had a variety of grips. Stance - nah, great players have had open,closed,square. Swing path, again lots of good players have had in to out,out to in etc. What else could there be?? I'm thinking it might be control your impact point, control the curvature of the ball, and do it with enough power to play the game. No one style of swing suits everybody, its what ever works for you. And thats why most think you are a ******** Larry, you keep believing that what will work for you is the answer for everyone.

Hey Rooboy what was the word that was censored out ********?

Genius? Visionary? Legend?

Come on tell us. What were you trying to say?

[Pky6471]

Nice of you to say so!! What a classy guy!

Post a video of your swing. Let us see the basis of your bravado.

Larry

Lerry... We give U the credits for posting your videos to show what you COULD do... Be a man, take up the challenge from FD since you guys are close together and show us what you could really do... I am not a good golfer like most of you guys/girls/AC-DC here, but when I am in SD I would like to play a round with you, is it OK?

[Larryrsf]

Just so i'm understanding, which plane is on plane? Shaft,shoulder,elbow, or some other one? And while you are at it, what are the fundamentals? Grip - don't think so, too many champions have had a variety of grips. Stance - nah, great players have had open,closed,square. Swing path, again lots of good players have had in to out,out to in etc. What else could there be?? I'm thinking it might be control your impact point, control the curvature of the ball, and do it with enough power to play the game. No one style of swing suits everybody, its what ever works for you. And thats why most think you are a ******** Larry, you keep believing that what will work for you is the answer for everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s

The plane is the original setup shaft angle. See the line the pro drew through the club shaft.

Ideally we want a swing with NO requirement to make compensations, no "timing" of hand or wrist moves in order to return the clubhead to the ball accelerating toward the target. So they teach students to reach a top position that triggers a downswing sequence that produces that result--EVERY TIME!

They know there is a top position that triggers the ideal downswing. So teaching pros work with students MOSTLY on grip, setup, and backswing. Basically we want to imitate the pros, who have learned a grip, setup, and backswing that always gets them to that ideal top position.

An advanced lesson consists mostly of "take it up and stop" so the pro can adjust our top position. He pushes and pulls our arms, shoulders, and hands. We try to memorize that and how we got there. Then we do it again and he adjusts again. Tiger said Butch Harmon made him do that for hours! And it is hard, sweaty work! But there is no other way if you really want to be consistent.

If you can stop the attached video, I arrive at a very good top position. Your pro knows. But if you aren't going to work with a teaching pro, print it and take it with you to the range. Look at yourself in a mirror. My pro also taught me how to verify my top position by looking at my shadow--the only thing you have out on the course.

Good luck!

Larry

[Larryrsf]

Lerry... We give U the credits for posting your videos to show what you COULD do... Be a man, take up the challenge from FD since you guys are close together and show us what you could really do... I am not a good golfer like most of you guys/girls/AC-DC here, but when I am in SD I would like to play a round with you, is it OK?

I seldom play rounds during the week. I play with friends ONE day on weekends, usually Sunday morning. Golf is fun, but it is NOT my life. I really don't want to waste more than an hour now and then on a hobby sport.

However, last time he challenged me to a match, I offered to hit balls on the range beside FD. I offered to make small wagers on our respective ability to hit targets. We could set boundaries and then hit 10 balls with driver and determine which guy is most consistent. We could pick a target out 100 yards and determine which guy can drop the most of 10 balls on or near it. We could hit 10 balls onto the practice green from 30 yards and determine which guy has the best touch. I would enjoy a putting match.

As I remember he turned that down, saying the range I selected was too scruffy, ha. Excuses, excuses.

Either you know you have good fundamentals and a repeating golf swing, or you don't.

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

I seldom play rounds during the week. I play with friends ONE day on weekends, usually Sunday morning. Golf is fun, but it is NOT my life. I really don't want to waste more than an hour now and then on a hobby sport.

However, last time he challenged me to a match, I offered to hit balls on the range beside FD. I offered to make small wagers on our respective ability to hit targets. We could set boundaries and then hit 10 balls with driver and determine which guy is most consistent. We could pick a target out 100 yards and determine which guy can drop the most of 10 balls on or near it. We could hit 10 balls onto the practice green from 30 yards and determine which guy has the best touch. I would enjoy a putting match.

As I remember he turned that down, saying the range I selected was too scruffy, ha. Excuses, excuses.

Either you know you have good fundamentals and a repeating golf swing, or you don't.

Larry

Or you play golf on a proper golf course rather than wasting your time on some pathetic range game contest. The only guys that would play games like that are promising junior players who are working at the range and make up games to break up the drudgery of hitting range balls. No adult with limited time would waste time on such a pathetic idea. Nor would any real golfer. Only a range rat who doesn't really play the game of golf would suggest such BS.

[Not a German]

Or you play golf on a proper golf course rather than wasting your time on some pathetic range game contest. The only guys that would play games like that are promising junior players who are working at the range and make up games to break up the drudgery of hitting range balls. No adult with limited time would waste time on such a pathetic idea. Nor would any real golfer. Only a range rat who doesn't really play the game of golf would suggest such BS.

PLEASE....do NOT feed the trolls. Thank you.

[Kiwi Player]

Lerry... We give U the credits for posting your videos to show what you COULD do... Be a man, take up the challenge from FD since you guys are close together and show us what you could really do... I am not a good golfer like most of you guys/girls/AC-DC here, but when I am in SD I would like to play a round with you, is it OK?

No golf game Pky but a range challenge instead. FD & I chickened out of that. Are YOU man enough to pick up the gauntlet?

[daveperkins]

I'll tell you what he does Larry. He compensates for those 'poor fundamentals', squares the club face at impact and hits a beautiful draw down the middle that finds most fairways and most greens. When he misses the green he has a good short game and chips it close and drains the putt. That's what good golfers do. He consistently shoots in the 70's something you can only dream about despite all the hundreds of lessons you've wasted your money on. So keep enjoying your dirt range sessions and leave the real golf to us. We don't want short knocking, slow playing old fools like you holding up the course anyway.

I call "man crush"... KP hearts FD...

[Kiwi Player]

PLEASE....do NOT feed the trolls. Thank you.

Oops! Time for me to STFU!!!

[Kiwi Player]

I call "man crush"... KP hearts FD...

... another reason for me to STFU!!!

[Larryrsf]

Or you play golf on a proper golf course rather than wasting your time on some pathetic range game contest. The only guys that would play games like that are promising junior players who are working at the range and make up games to break up the drudgery of hitting range balls. No adult with limited time would waste time on such a pathetic idea. Nor would any real golfer. Only a range rat who doesn't really play the game of golf would suggest such BS.

Yada, yada. I hear that from guys who are really doubtful about their ability to hit it straight. Duh

I play regularly with VERY good golfers who spend significant time on the range during the week. A friend with a scratch handicap made a TINY swing change and then felt the necessity to hit 3 HUGE buckets of balls to iron out the tiny conflicts that caused. He hit every fairway and green the following Sunday.

Only hackers go out to play while confused and unsure, not really knowing where this next shot is going. Good golfers are confident because they go to #1 tee having hit enough on the range to KNOW! Teaching and touring pros spend more time on the range than anyone! They shoot 64, then take lessons, then get back out on the range.

Larry

[alangbaker]

Yada, yada. I hear that from guys who are really doubtful about their ability to hit it straight. Duh

You here from guys who are really doubtful about their ability to hit it straight...

...that they want make the test who can actually play better golf?

Riiiiiiight.

I play regularly with VERY good golfers who spend significant time on the range during the week. A friend with a scratch handicap made a TINY swing change and then felt the necessity to hit 3 HUGE buckets of balls to iron out the tiny conflicts that caused. He hit every fairway and green the following Sunday.

Sure he did. PGA Tour pros hit at very best, 70% of the fairways, but your scratch "friend" hits all of 'em!

LOL

Only hackers go out to play while confused and unsure, not really knowing where this next shot is going. Good golfers are confident because they go to #1 tee having hit enough on the range to KNOW! Teaching and touring pros spend more time on the range than anyone! They shoot 64, then take lessons, then get back out on the range.

Which is quite different than you, who only talks about how much you practice and how dedicated you are to improvement in order to imagine your kinship to actual players...

...then goes out and shoots 94...

...then takes lessons...

...then tells us all that the current lesson is the secret we should all be working on...

....then gets back out to the range...

...before shooting 94 again!

Real golfers play golf, Larry. And I would put my money on pretty much any of the regulars here over you in the only contest that matters: score for 18 holes.

[alangbaker]

I seldom play rounds during the week. I play with friends ONE day on weekends, usually Sunday morning. Golf is fun, but it is NOT my life. I really don't want to waste more than an hour now and then on a hobby sport.

However, last time he challenged me to a match, I offered to hit balls on the range beside FD. I offered to make small wagers on our respective ability to hit targets. We could set boundaries and then hit 10 balls with driver and determine which guy is most consistent. We could pick a target out 100 yards and determine which guy can drop the most of 10 balls on or near it. We could hit 10 balls onto the practice green from 30 yards and determine which guy has the best touch. I would enjoy a putting match.

As I remember he turned that down, saying the range I selected was too scruffy, ha. Excuses, excuses.

Either you know you have good fundamentals and a repeating golf swing, or you don't.

Larry

I'll take any of those bets, Larry! I'll be in SoCal for a day at the end of the month, and I'll bet you $1000 that I can beat you at any of those contests. My only stipulation is that there has to be a witness that I trust, and not a range pro you're paying lots of money to tell you you're improving.

You feeling "froggy" enough again yet?

[Larryrsf]

Surest way to close out a thread-- is when AB tunes up and starts slamming it with tripe.

Does ANYONE EVER read what he posts?

Larry

[Not a German]

Surest way to close out a thread-- is when AB tunes up and starts slamming it with tripe.

Does ANYONE EVER read what he posts?

Larry

I read them religiously.

I'll take any of those bets, Larry! I'll be in SoCal for a day at the end of the month, and I'll bet you $1000 that I can beat you at any of those contests. My only stipulation is that there has to be a witness that I trust, and not a range pro you're paying lots of money to tell you you're improving.

You feeling "froggy" enough again yet?

I'll do it if you send a limo.

[alangbaker]

Surest way to close out a thread-- is when AB tunes up and starts slamming it with tripe.

Does ANYONE EVER read what he posts?

And even surer than that is that when Larry is pressed to back up his bull...

...he finds a way to bail and make a few personal insults at the same time.

FD: are you in the LA area? I've got a flight into LA on the evening of the 26th, and it's looking like a might have a day free rather than working for a client of my in Burbank on Saturday. You available for a round if it shakes out that way?

[mongrel]

And even surer than that is that when Larry is pressed to back up his bull...

...he finds a way to bail and make a few personal insults at the same time.

FD: are you in the LA area? I've got a flight into LA on the evening of the 26th, and it's looking like a might have a day free rather than working for a client of my in Burbank on Saturday. You available for a round if it shakes out that way?

I for one would like to see some video of a FD/AB match. Sort of a USA/Canada Cup competition. Do we have any other current forumites from up north?

[Larryrsf]

I for one would like to see some video of a FD/AB match. Sort of a USA/Canada Cup competition. Do we have any other current forumites from up north?

Have you seen AB's swing? Last I saw he had a 20 handicaper's OTT slash, the swing we see among the young Marine beginners on the military bases. No form, but very strong and very stupid. They slice it FAR into the trees!

My teaching pro looked at FD's swing and offered him some badly needed instruction... so those two may be a pair. ha Would be sorta fun to watch. But I could watch the young Marines anytime on the military courses. Sorta boring.

I remember a few years ago I got paired with a Marine General and two young privates. After a few holes the general turned to them and said, "boys, if you can't control yourselves and swing in control, I suggest you walk in and hit balls on the range." They both yelled, "YES SIR!" and began swinging smoothly in control--and keeping the ball in play! They both had the round of their life! And learned something.

Larry

[alangbaker]

Have you seen AB's swing? Last I saw he had a 20 handicaper's OTT slash, the swing we see among the young Marine beginners on the military bases. No form, but very strong and very stupid. They slice it FAR into the trees!

So then you'd have no trouble accepting a straight up match with me for let's say $2000?

Are you feeling "froggy" enough yet?

Let the excuses begin!

[Larryrsf]

I posted a video of my swing. I suggest everyone who is claiming a good game post a recent video of their swing (back and side view). All who have taken lessons and seen analysis of their golf swings on video will know what to look for. We can discern whether that swing can keep the ball in play, hit fairways and greens in regulation-- or send it into the trees and deep rough over and over again. Put up or shut up.

Larry

[alangbaker]

I posted a video of my swing. I suggest everyone who is claiming a good game post a recent video of their swing (back and side view). All who have taken lessons and seen analysis of their golf swings on video will know what to look for. We can discern whether that swing can keep the ball in play, hit fairways and greens in regulation-- or send it into the trees and deep rough over and over again. Put up or shut up.

I put up $2K....


...and that shut you up pretty good.

[jt1135]

The only thing I am going to say is read Penick's book. One chapter says something about one of his students who tells Harvey that the next guy he plays has a horrible swing. He gets the shite kicked out of him. Lesson from Harvey. Beware the guy with a bad swing that plays to a high level. He knows how to play his shots. Not always about being pretty.

[FreakOfNature]

I for one would like to see some video of a FD/AB match. Sort of a USA/Canada Cup competition. Do we have any other current forumites from up north?

I'd be game, except I'm in Nova Scotia, which is close to as geographically distant from California as you can get in civilized North America. The idea is certainly intriguing though. Would be hella fun, though it would only really be worth it if Larry played too. I love a challenge, and it would be tough to beat a guy who can hit all the fairways and most of the greens. Have you seen that swing? That guy's a hustler if I ever saw one.



FON

[rooboy]

Hey Rooboy what was the word that was censored out ********?

Genius? Visionary? Legend?

Come on tell us. What were you trying to say?

No to your 3 suggestions. If i was you saying it, it would sound something like duckhed to me

And he still hasn't answered my questions. I'm starting to feel like Alan

[rooboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s

The plane is the original setup shaft angle. See the line the pro drew through the club shaft.

Ideally we want a swing with NO requirement to make compensations, no "timing" of hand or wrist moves in order to return the clubhead to the ball accelerating toward the target. So they teach students to reach a top position that triggers a downswing sequence that produces that result--EVERY TIME!

T

Larry

So how does flattening the shaft or laying it off on the downswing require NO
compensations if that is not the path it goes back in the backswing??

[Kiwi Player]

No to your 3 suggestions. If i was you saying it, it would sound something like duckhed to me

And he still hasn't answered my questions. I'm starting to feel like Alan

You calling Larry a Deckhead?

I thought he answered all your questions in post #25. You should feel privileged not cryin.

[rooboy]

You calling Larry a Deckhead?

I thought he answered all your questions in post #25. You should feel privileged not cryin.

In my defense i had just finished my second James Squire amber ale, and missed his reply. Whilst he clarified what he thinks is the plane and fundamentals, i can't see how laying the club off does not rely on timing to square the clubface at impact. I know i am only an ott swinging midcapper , so i have accepted that the discussion is probably way over my head. And i am totally confused as to why almost all good PLAYING pro's have different swings, whilst Larry would have us believe that his good TEACHING pro teaches the only way that all us amateurs should be swinging.
Ef thus doesn't make sense, ets cause the third one tastes better
bro.

[Larryrsf]

So how does flattening the shaft or laying it off on the downswing require NO
compensations if that is not the path it goes back in the backswing??

Ask your pro and he will show you what happens.

Basically we lay it off on top so we can more easily bring it down on plane with the wrist set preserved. The layoff forces us to tuck the back elbow in tight, even in front of our stomach, which is ideal. Stand up and try it. Take it up to vertical, then point the club shaft away from the ball by pointing your thumbs. Then as you shift your weight to your front leg and simultaneously start you swing pivot, you bring the club down on plane. Then the downswing is a simple pivot toward the target of shoulders and arms as a unit, NO manipulation of wrists is necessary to bring the clubhead through the ball accelerating and correctly aligned. It goes straight and long EVERY TIME. No "timing" of bogus hand action. That explains how really good players hit fairways and greens even when they swing as hard as they can for distance.

Since about 99% of high handicappers take it up too steep and then bring it down even steeper, they bring the clubhead to the ball from outside the target line, swiping across the back of the ball causing slice. FAR better to bring the clubhead to the ball from the inside, "down and under" with a later release.

Good golfers say the downswing feels like skipping a flat rock across a pond or hitting a wedge under a door. The dominant hand palm is facing UP as our hands approaches the impact area.

Again, have a pro or a good player show you. If you really want to have a good golf swing, this is you final exam.

Larry

[alangbaker]

Ask your pro and he will show you what happens.

That doesn't answer the question he asked...

Basically we lay it off on top so we can more easily bring it down on plane with the wrist set preserved. The layoff forces us to tuck the back elbow in tight, even in front of our stomach, which is ideal. Stand up and try it. Take it up to vertical, then point the club shaft away from the ball by pointing your thumbs. Then as you shift your weight to your front leg and simultaneously start you swing pivot, you bring the club down on plane. Then the downswing is a simple pivot toward the target of shoulders and arms as a unit, NO manipulation of wrists is necessary to bring the clubhead through the ball accelerating and correctly aligned. It goes straight and long EVERY TIME. No "timing" of bogus hand action. That explains how really good players hit fairways and greens even when they swing as hard as they can for distance.

There are an awful lot of really GREAT players who manage to do that without doing your secret move, Larry...

Since about 99% of high handicappers take it up too steep and then bring it down even steeper, they bring the clubhead to the ball from outside the target line, swiping across the back of the ball causing slice. FAR better to bring the clubhead to the ball from the inside, "down and under" with a later release.

Good golfers say the downswing feels like skipping a flat rock across a pond or hitting a wedge under a door. The dominant hand palm is facing UP as our hands approaches the impact area.

Again, have a pro or a good player show you. If you really want to have a good golf swing, this is you final exam.

The only "final exam" is on the course, Larry. You've heard of the course, right? It's that place where you resolutely refuse to show your game.

[lm0159]

head still, consistant spine angle, take it back, clear the hips, and lash the fetcking life out of the thing.

Beautiful.

[famousdavis]

And even surer than that is that when Larry is pressed to back up his bull...

...he finds a way to bail and make a few personal insults at the same time.

FD: are you in the LA area? I've got a flight into LA on the evening of the 26th, and it's looking like a might have a day free rather than working for a client of my in Burbank on Saturday. You available for a round if it shakes out that way?

I'm about 2.5 hours away from the LA area. I would do it if I lived in the area. Always game for a good match.

[alangbaker]

I'm about 2.5 hours away from the LA area. I would do it if I lived in the area. Always game for a good match.

In which direction?

Saturday, I'm planning to be in the LA area, but by Monday morning at 8am I need to be at Laguna Seca outside Monterey.

[rooboy]

Basically we lay it off on top so we can more easily bring it down on plane with the wrist set preserved. The layoff forces us to tuck the back elbow in tight, even in front of our stomach, which is ideal. Stand up and try it. Take it up to vertical, then point the club shaft away from the ball by pointing your thumbs. Then as you shift your weight to your front leg and simultaneously start you swing pivot, you bring the club down on plane. Then the downswing is a simple pivot toward the target of shoulders and arms as a unit, NO manipulation of wrists is necessary to bring the clubhead through the ball accelerating and correctly aligned. It goes straight and long EVERY TIME. No "timing" of bogus hand action. That explains how really good players hit fairways and greens even when they swing as hard as they can for distance.
Larry

Ok Larry, i stood up and did what you and your good teaching pro suggested. But taking it up vertical then laying it off requires compensation, if its not in the wrists then it has to be some other body part to make the shaft flatten(clue... shoulder,right forefinger etc). Ask your Pro this, If i keep my pressure points of upper arms against my chest and rotate around a stable axis, can i swing the club and arms on a consistent path both back and through without swinging under or over the set up plane?
You are way to old to take exams, so treat it more as an opportunity to expand your knowledge. No need to get back to me, i already know the answer.

[Kiwi Player]

Ok Larry, i stood up and did what you and your good teaching pro suggested. But taking it up vertical then laying it off requires compensation, if its not in the wrists then it has to be some other body part to make the shaft flatten(clue... shoulder,right forefinger etc). Ask your Pro this, If i keep my pressure points of upper arms against my chest and rotate around a stable axis, can i swing the club and arms on a consistent path both back and through without swinging under or over the set up plane?
You are way to old to take exams, so treat it more as an opportunity to expand your knowledge. No need to get back to me, i already know the answer.

I think you need to get another James Squire amber ale before you suffer a debilitating case of paralysis by analysis.

[rooboy]

I think you need to get another James Squire amber ale before you suffer a debilitating case of paralysis by analysis.

Its ok Kiwi, thought it might be fun to see if i can get Larry to have a light bulb moment and realise that there is more than one way. Long shot i know.
Have you tried JS amber ale? Even the wife said its like beer used to be. Nice dark colour, full flavour. Gotta love ale.

[Kiwi Player]

Its ok Kiwi, thought it might be fun to see if i can get Larry to have a light bulb moment and realise that there is more than one way. Long shot i know.
Have you tried JS amber ale? Even the wife said its like beer used to be. Nice dark colour, full flavour. Gotta love ale.

Yes I have. Last time I was in Melbourne we wandered down to the dockland area and found a pub that had the JS on tap. Whittled away the afternoon sampling the different brews. Very nice drop.

[Lord Helmet]

Why dont all you fukkers come to Ohio??? I will play!

[famousdavis]

In which direction?

Saturday, I'm planning to be in the LA area, but by Monday morning at 8am I need to be at Laguna Seca outside Monterey.

You'll be driving even further away from me. PM me if you are ever coming down this way again.

[Larryrsf]

head still, consistant spine angle, take it back, clear the hips, and lash the fetcking life out of the thing.

Beautiful.

Few can exert 100% effort and maintain good form and sequence. So even Jack Nicklaus said he "kept 20% in his pocket" and stroked it smoothly. Only amateurs swing "out of their shoes." It is a major graduation stage when we finally learn to look out at a 550 yard fairway and just smoothly stroke it to the best spot.

It is an even more important graduation for amateurs to learn that good form and sequence actually send the ball further than a wild "lash" that usually misses the sweet spot on the driver face.

And more clubhead speed at impact is one of the benefits of laying it off. You bring the club down with the wrists fully set until your hands are in front of your legs-- avoiding the early release cast that wastes your effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTBh0KemOuQ


Larry

[famousdavis]

Few can exert 100% effort and maintain good form and sequence. So even Jack Nicklaus said he "kept 20% in his pocket" and stroked it smoothly. Only amateurs swing "out of their shoes." It is a major graduation stage when we finally learn to look out at a 550 yard fairway and just smoothly stroke it to the best spot.

It is an even more important graduation for amateurs to learn that good form and sequence actually send the ball further than a wild "lash" that usually misses the sweet spot on the driver face.

And more clubhead speed at impact is one of the benefits of laying it off. You bring the club down with the wrists fully set until your hands are in front of your legs-- avoiding the early release cast that wastes your effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTBh0KemOuQ


Larry

Your swing looks good going back and looks great on the transition from the top to the beginning of the downswing. However, something funny happens when you are near the bottom of the downswing and again when you make contact with the ball. It's as if the move becomes very quick and you spin out. You should endeavor to keep the same rhythm throughout the entire swing.

Keep taking those lessons.

[mongrel]

Your swing looks good going back and looks great on the transition from the top to the beginning of the downswing. However, something funny happens when you are near the bottom of the downswing and again when you make contact with the ball. It's as if the move becomes very quick and you spin out. You should endeavor to keep the same rhythm throughout the entire swing.

Keep taking those lessons.

The problem is hitting off those rubber mats. I find that I achieve much better contact much more frequently with irons when I limit my practice to turf than when I hit 80-150 shots off mats. Mats are fine if you are a total iron sweeper but if your most effectice move is to compress the ball into the surface, the turf's your stuff. I just about limit my mat practice to drivers and 3 woods off the rubber tees and wedge shots 'cause the wedge really doesn't care where the ball is lying. Almost every iron I hit in the Golf Galaxy simulators is a joke. I'll take the 7 irons from a couple of used sets and get maybe 140 carry out of them. Out on the real turf be it fairway or one of my fields, I can carry a 7 155-170 when well struck. Same with the range mats. So why should I go hit 40 7 irons off the range mats hoping to reach a 140 yard target when on course 140 is a 9 or an 8 for me?

[Larryrsf]

Ok Larry, i stood up and did what you and your good teaching pro suggested. But taking it up vertical then laying it off requires compensation, if its not in the wrists then it has to be some other body part to make the shaft flatten(clue... shoulder,right forefinger etc). Ask your Pro this, If i keep my pressure points of upper arms against my chest and rotate around a stable axis, can i swing the club and arms on a consistent path both back and through without swinging under or over the set up plane?
You are way to old to take exams, so treat it more as an opportunity to expand your knowledge. No need to get back to me, i already know the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTBh0KemOuQ

Have a teaching pro walk you through it. Take it up and stop and let him place you in the ideal position to start a downswing. Memorize it. Do it again. He will fix you again, etc. etc. And eventually you will be able to backswing yourself to the ideal top position. If you can do that, you can hit fairways and greens on any course anywhere, any time.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

The problem is hitting off those rubber mats. I find that I achieve much better contact much more frequently with irons when I limit my practice to turf than when I hit 80-150 shots off mats. Mats are fine if you are a total iron sweeper but if your most effectice move is to compress the ball into the surface, the turf's your stuff. I just about limit my mat practice to drivers and 3 woods off the rubber tees and wedge shots 'cause the wedge really doesn't care where the ball is lying. Almost every iron I hit in the Golf Galaxy simulators is a joke. I'll take the 7 irons from a couple of used sets and get maybe 140 carry out of them. Out on the real turf be it fairway or one of my fields, I can carry a 7 155-170 when well struck. Same with the range mats. So why should I go hit 40 7 irons off the range mats hoping to reach a 140 yard target when on course 140 is a 9 or an 8 for me?

Agreed mats are not ideal, but the soft hitting area on good mats allows us to hit DOWN on a ground ball just like we do on turf. When I start to complain about hitting off mats, I remember Lee Trevino talking about their need in S. Texas in Summer to hit off of hardpan. Try that! A good swing is a good swing and it works on any surface. Suck it up.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

Your swing looks good going back and looks great on the transition from the top to the beginning of the downswing. However, something funny happens when you are near the bottom of the downswing and again when you make contact with the ball. It's as if the move becomes very quick and you spin out. You should endeavor to keep the same rhythm throughout the entire swing.

Keep taking those lessons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s

Here is a better view of my swing. I make much more aggressive hip and footwork now. But this top position is close to ideal.

That lapse is caused by their very low definition teaching cameras. It is shooting only a few frames a second and does seem to skip through impact sometimes. Not ideal, but sufficient for teaching. It does show the sequence and the positions, good enough.

The most important part of the golf swing is the top position. Get it right there and you can play low handicap golf, hit fairways and greens on any course anywhere, anytime!

FD, you really should invest a few bucks and learn a fundamentally good golf swing. It ain't the clubs!

Larry

[alangbaker]

That is their very low definition teaching cameras. It is shooting only a few frames a second and does seem to skip through impact sometimes. Not ideal, but sufficient for teaching. It does show the sequence and the positions, good enough.

The most important part of the golf swing is the top position. Get it right there and you can play low handicap golf, hit fairways and greens on any course anywhere, anytime!

FD, you really should invest a few bucks and learn a fundamentally good golf swing. It ain't the clubs!

Larry... ...you should actually learn to play golf.

[alangbaker]

You'll be driving even further away from me. PM me if you are ever coming down this way again.

Yeah... ...I thought that might be the case.

But I'm hoping to make a few trips to California over the next while, so I'll try again next time.

[Not a German]

If anyone's planning on being in China during November let me know, we can share some dog together.

[Lord Helmet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s

The most important part of the golf swing is the top position. Larry

Really?

Kudos for you on posting your swings...

But the most important part of the swing is impact. The moment of truth as they say.....

Pro golfers (men, women, senior) all have different styles on posture, grip, alignment, waggle, takeaway, top, transition......

But they all look virtually identical when the club meets the ball. Impact. Thats the most important thing. Get THAT right and you will be successful.

And all of us amateurs should do whatever works best for us to get to a decent impact position. Whether that be open/closed stance, weak/neutral/strong grip, etc.....figure out what works for you and what gives you the best chance at success, then ingrain it. Stop trying to force something....

[poe4soul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xcy-utt17s

Here is a better view of my swing. I make much more aggressive hip and footwork now. But this top position is close to ideal.

That lapse is caused by their very low definition teaching cameras. It is shooting only a few frames a second and does seem to skip through impact sometimes. Not ideal, but sufficient for teaching. It does show the sequence and the positions, good enough.

The most important part of the golf swing is the top position. Get it right there and you can play low handicap golf, hit fairways and greens on any course anywhere, anytime!

FD, you really should invest a few bucks and learn a fundamentally good golf swing. It ain't the clubs!

Larry

This cracks me up. The most important part of the golf swing is impact. Duh!

What you have there is a bit of early extension. You have lost your spine angle about half the way down the swing. Your back foot is way off the ground about half way down. Maybe invest in some PT to get those gluts stronger...

[Kiwi Player]

This cracks me up. The most important part of the golf swing is impact. Duh!

What you have there is a bit of early extension. You have lost your spine angle about half the way down the swing. Your back foot is way off the ground about half way down. Maybe invest in some PT to get those glutes stronger...

Why?

So he can hit 10 yards further and slightly straighter during his never ending range sessions?

[Not a German]

This cracks me up. The most important part of the golf swing is impact. Duh!

What you have there is a bit of early extension. You have lost your spine angle about half the way down the swing. Your back foot is way off the ground about half way down. Maybe invest in some PT to get those gluts stronger...

The problem is the only time he's ever experienced solid impact is when he's been hit in the nads. At his club you probably get points for that. It would explain why he prefers the relative safety of the driving range.

[alangbaker]

The problem is the only time he's ever experienced solid impact is when he's been hit in the nads. At his club you probably get points for that. It would explain why he prefers the relative safety of the driving range.

I've literally got $3500 (about $3550USD) in cash in my hand and I've offered Larry a straight up match that any real 8 handicap would jump at (since I'm currently a 13).

Kinda tells you how real his 8 is, doesn't it?

[poe4soul]

Why?

So he can hit 10 yards further and slightly straighter during his never ending range sessions?

Early extension creates all kinds of compensations.

Wasn't it Lary that professed the proper move of the back foot is to roll in toward the front foot then extend past impact? What you see in his video is the rear foot lifting while the hips move into the slot. Not the driving move he professed.

I think Lary needs to go out behind the rear maintenance building and do a few wall drills with Pro Kevin. It should be some fun times.

[poe4soul]

The problem is the only time he's ever experienced solid impact is when he's been hit in the nads. At his club you probably get points for that. It would explain why he prefers the relative safety of the driving range.

I don't know about that but I'm sure he's been impacted.

[rooboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTBh0KemOuQ

Have a teaching pro walk you through it. Take it up and stop and let him place you in the ideal position to start a downswing. Memorize it. Do it again. He will fix you again, etc. etc. And eventually you will be able to backswing yourself to the ideal top position. If you can do that, you can hit fairways and greens on any course anywhere, any time.

Larry

Why do you think i need fixing? I hit my fair share of fairways and greens, very much in proportion to my level of ability compared to the top pros and their stats.
I don't dispute some of the stuff you say Larry, just the way you think its for everyone. There is more than one way, and all that matters is the point of impact. Swinging on a range means nothing, golf is about playing a course and scoring.

[alangbaker]

Why do you think i need fixing? I hit my fair share of fairways and greens, very much in proportion to my level of ability compared to the top pros and their stats.
I don't dispute some of the stuff you say Larry, just the way you think its for everyone. There is more than one way, and all that matters is the point of impact. Swinging on a range means nothing, golf is about playing a course and scoring.

Good luck with the reasonable approach, Roo'.

It's not like it hasn't been tried before, but may 700th's time is the charm!

[rooboy]

Good luck with the reasonable approach, Roo'.

It's not like it hasn't been tried before, but may 700th's time is the charm!

Crap i didn't mean to be reasonable Alan, thats the difference between posting first thing in the morning versus at night with a beer in my hand!!

[Kiwi Player]

Crap i didn't mean to be reasonable Alan, thats the difference between posting first thing in the morning versus at night with a beer in my hand!!

Damn Rooboy

SWMBO has friends in Launceston. I'm gonna have to get back to Tassie for a match and a beer sometime.

[Larryrsf]

Early extension creates all kinds of compensations.

Wasn't it Lary that professed the proper move of the back foot is to roll in toward the front foot then extend past impact? What you see in his video is the rear foot lifting while the hips move into the slot. Not the driving move he professed.

I think Lary needs to go out behind the rear maintenance building and do a few wall drills with Pro Kevin. It should be some fun times.

post a video of your swing or STFU.

Larry

[jt1135]

post a video of your swing or STFU.

Larry

Swing don't matter. Its how you score.

[jt1135]

Found something a lot more interesting. The original Omega Man with Charlton Heston.

[Kiwi Player]

post a video of your swing or STFU.

Larry

Poe4soul posted a swing video years ago. He has a technically sound swing and plays to a 4 handicaps. It's you who needs to STFU.

[Larryrsf]

Poe4soul posted a swing video years ago. He has a technically sound swing and plays to a 4 handicaps. It's you who needs to STFU.

You say, ha

If or you or anyone wants credibility with those who DO take lessons and have their swing analyed by teaching pros, they should post a decent video of their swing. Shoot the video from down the line and another from the side. I can have a teaching pro give the golfer a professional opinion.

I agree that some can play decently with bad fundamentals. But they cannot be consistent. And their scores depend only on how often they can find and play their sideways shots. I want instead to hit it down the middle and then hit it on. That is a good golf swing.

And to those who denigrate how much time I spend after lessons hitting balls on the range, I cite the fact that EVERY GOOD GOLFER including the pros does that. They spend 10 times more time on the range than they do on the course. Lee Trevino said he "hit balls until his hands bled" and certainly Jack Nicklaus, Sam Snead, and Gary Player, et. al. did also. It is necessary for good golfers to work on their swing and then continuously work to keep themselves fresh. They wouldn't dream of playing on the weekend while not having hit 500 or 1000 balls during the week. If that seems excessive, take up bowling.

Larry

[rooboy]

Damn Rooboy

SWMBO has friends in Launceston. I'm gonna have to get back to Tassie for a match and a beer sometime.

That would be great Kiwi. Need to make it long enough to do Barnbougle and Lost Farm ;)

My current asm is from Nz and i was looking at Google maps with him yesterday, he was born in Palmerston Nth and grew up just north of Auckland. Was telling the mrs how much i would like to go to Nz, and she is pretty keen to at some stage, a match would have to definitely happen, along with some local ales.

[rooboy]

I want instead to hit it down the middle and then hit it on. That is a good golf swing.


Larry

No, that requires playing on a course. Not from a flat range lie where visually its wide open. Doing it in a comp where there is pressure is when it becomes a good golf swing.

[alangbaker]

post a video of your swing or STFU.

Larry

Profanity...

...didn't you call the the true mark of the gutter trash.

[poe4soul]

You say, ha

If or you or anyone wants credibility with those who DO take lessons and have their swing analyed by teaching pros, they should post a decent video of their swing. Shoot the video from down the line and another from the side. I can have a teaching pro give the golfer a professional opinion.

I agree that some can play decently with bad fundamentals. But they cannot be consistent. And their scores depend only on how often they can find and play their sideways shots. I want instead to hit it down the middle and then hit it on. That is a good golf swing.

And to those who denigrate how much time I spend after lessons hitting balls on the range, I cite the fact that EVERY GOOD GOLFER including the pros does that. They spend 10 times more time on the range than they do on the course. Lee Trevino said he "hit balls until his hands bled" and certainly Jack Nicklaus, Sam Snead, and Gary Player, et. al. did also. It is necessary for good golfers to work on their swing and then continuously work to keep themselves fresh. They wouldn't dream of playing on the weekend while not having hit 500 or 1000 balls during the week. If that seems excessive, take up bowling.

Larry

Blah, blah, blah. You pay money to a pro that has missed a swing fault that is very basic. Good luck continuing with Pro, I'm taking your money, old man, Kevin. I bet he even acts like he cares.Sad.

[Pky6471]

Blah, blah, blah. You pay money to a pro that has missed a swing fault that is very basic. Good luck continuing with Pro, I'm taking your money, old man, Kevin. I bet he even acts like he cares.Sad.

I bet Kevin enjoys taking money from old men like Larry... Tell them what they want to hear and pocket the money, best way to earn a living... It's a scam

[Kiwi Player]

That would be great Kiwi. Need to make it long enough to do Barnbougle and Lost Farm ;)

My current asm is from Nz and i was looking at Google maps with him yesterday, he was born in Palmerston Nth and grew up just north of Auckland. Was telling the mrs how much i would like to go to Nz, and she is pretty keen to at some stage, a match would have to definitely happen, along with some local ales.

Condolences to your asm. Being born in Palmerston North can't have been easy. John Cleese once passed through there and commented that suicide would be a viable option if you lived there. Still looking on the bright side at least your asm got out!

I'm from Auckland but currently living in Taupo. Have a look on Google maps. It's right in the centre of the north island beside a huge lake. It's a popular tourist spot due to the lake, the rivers and the nearby mountains. There are 3 good golf courses here too all within a short drive of each other. If you make it to NZ it's a must see and is probably the nicest part of the North Island apart from the Bay of Islands up north. The famous thermal mudpools of Rotorua are only about an hours drive away.

[rooboy]

Condolences to your asm. Being born in Palmerston North can't have been easy. John Cleese once passed through there and commented that suicide would be a viable option if you lived there. Still looking on the bright side at least your asm got out!

I'm from Auckland but currently living in Taupo. Have a look on Google maps. It's right in the centre of the north island beside a huge lake. It's a popular tourist spot due to the lake, the rivers and the nearby mountains. There are 3 good golf courses here too all within a short drive of each other. If you make it to NZ it's a must see and is probably the nicest part of the North Island apart from the Bay of Islands up north. The famous thermal mudpools of Rotorua are only about an hours drive away.

Ha, i showed him the trip i remember taking back in 84, where i went from Auckland to Coromandel, back through Thames and down to Rotorua. He then showed me Lake Taupo, as his father lives near the mountains there, and i commented how that would have to be worth a trip. I have 9 weeks long service leave in the bank, may have to take a few weeks come summer.

[Kiwi Player]

Ha, i showed him the trip i remember taking back in 84, where i went from Auckland to Coromandel, back through Thames and down to Rotorua. He then showed me Lake Taupo, as his father lives near the mountains there, and i commented how that would have to be worth a trip. I have 9 weeks long service leave in the bank, may have to take a few weeks come summer.

If it happens and you make it to Taupo a GR tran Tasman match followed by a few local ales would be a must.

[mongrel]

I bet Kevin enjoys taking money from old men like Larry... Tell them what they want to hear and pocket the money, best way to earn a living... It's a scam

I don't know if its a scam. If you look at the last video Larry posted and compare it with those he posted in the past, this current swing looks much more natural with a better tempo and more power. If one has the time and money to do what he's doing, I see nothing wrong with it. Personally, if I were going to devote that much time to it, I'd need someplace other than a rubber mat/hardscrabble range even though it is just east of the Ocean.

[alangbaker]

I don't know if its a scam. If you look at the last video Larry posted and compare it with those he posted in the past, this current swing looks much more natural with a better tempo and more power. If one has the time and money to do what he's doing, I see nothing wrong with it. Personally, if I were going to devote that much time to it, I'd need someplace other than a rubber mat/hardscrabble range even though it is just east of the Ocean.

Hey, I've said as much before: Larry's swing has improved...

...it's just nowhere near where he claims it is.

[hubijerk]

I don't have a problem with Larry, seems like a well intentioned guy, my only advice to him would be this... " Larry? How old are you? 70's? pushing 80? Get off the F'n range and go play, you're gonna be dead soon, enjoy the grass before all we have is plastic turf, enjoy the air while you can, before you need a portable O2 tank to go anywhere, take advantage of your grandfatherly appearance and feel up the cart girl then blame Alzheimer's, ENJOY THE GAME.... In those final moments when your life is flashing before your eyes are you going to be thinking about how you could have squeezed in more range time on those mats? I know I know, you want to build a solid swing, but turning down chances to play with friends, and yeah, I mean these guys on here who bust your balls mercilessly, those guys, because you have a range session or whatever is ridiculous... Go play, next time FD wants to play you, play, next time your in Vegas, let's play, next time anyone from here wants a match, PLAY!!! Trust me you'll have fun and it'll be worth it. Besides if your playing badly you can always fake an injury and use that as an excuse, I've used that 1 before, as long as you hit a few great shots a long the way the story is believable....

[alangbaker]

I don't have a problem with Larry, seems like a well intentioned guy, my only advice to him would be this... " Larry? How old are you? 70's? pushing 80? Get off the F'n range and go play, you're gonna be dead soon, enjoy the grass before all we have is plastic turf, enjoy the air while you can, before you need a portable O2 tank to go anywhere, take advantage of your grandfatherly appearance and feel up the cart girl then blame Alzheimer's, ENJOY THE GAME.... In those final moments when your life is flashing before your eyes are you going to be thinking about how you could have squeezed in more range time on those mats? I know I know, you want to build a solid swing, but turning down chances to play with friends, and yeah, I mean these guys on here who bust your balls mercilessly, those guys, because you have a range session or whatever is ridiculous... Go play, next time FD wants to play you, play, next time your in Vegas, let's play, next time anyone from here wants a match, PLAY!!! Trust me you'll have fun and it'll be worth it. Besides if your playing badly you can always fake an injury and use that as an excuse, I've used that 1 before, as long as you hit a few great shots a long the way the story is believable....

There is a huge assumption in your advice, H, which you have to understand doesn't apply with Larry.

Larry doesn't play golf to have fun. Larry plays golf to claim he is superior at something. When he failed so spectacularly with ever more outrageous claims of playing ability, he fell back to the claim that he is superior to all of us by virtue of his greater dedication to improvement.

This has the distinct advantage that it cannot be objectively tested, and to Larry, that is a very good thing indeed.

If you want to understand him, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder

Much will be explained.

[poe4soul]

I don't have a problem with Larry, seems like a well intentioned guy, my only advice to him would be this... " Larry? How old are you? 70's? pushing 80? Get off the F'n range and go play, you're gonna be dead soon, enjoy the grass before all we have is plastic turf, enjoy the air while you can, before you need a portable O2 tank to go anywhere, take advantage of your grandfatherly appearance and feel up the cart girl then blame Alzheimer's, ENJOY THE GAME.... In those final moments when your life is flashing before your eyes are you going to be thinking about how you could have squeezed in more range time on those mats? I know I know, you want to build a solid swing, but turning down chances to play with friends, and yeah, I mean these guys on here who bust your balls mercilessly, those guys, because you have a range session or whatever is ridiculous... Go play, next time FD wants to play you, play, next time your in Vegas, let's play, next time anyone from here wants a match, PLAY!!! Trust me you'll have fun and it'll be worth it. Besides if your playing badly you can always fake an injury and use that as an excuse, I've used that 1 before, as long as you hit a few great shots a long the way the story is believable....

I get your advice but maybe he likes range time more than golf. Less pressure because you can forget the last bad shot and look forward to the next good shot. Some people enjoy beat ion balls more than playing. Each his own and the more range rats we have, the cheaper a round of golf is for us who golf.

[poe4soul]

I don't have a problem with Larry, seems like a well intentioned guy, my only advice to him would be this... " Larry? How old are you? 70's? pushing 80? Get off the F'n range and go play, you're gonna be dead soon, enjoy the grass before all we have is plastic turf, enjoy the air while you can, before you need a portable O2 tank to go anywhere, take advantage of your grandfatherly appearance and feel up the cart girl then blame Alzheimer's, ENJOY THE GAME.... In those final moments when your life is flashing before your eyes are you going to be thinking about how you could have squeezed in more range time on those mats? I know I know, you want to build a solid swing, but turning down chances to play with friends, and yeah, I mean these guys on here who bust your balls mercilessly, those guys, because you have a range session or whatever is ridiculous... Go play, next time FD wants to play you, play, next time your in Vegas, let's play, next time anyone from here wants a match, PLAY!!! Trust me you'll have fun and it'll be worth it. Besides if your playing badly you can always fake an injury and use that as an excuse, I've used that 1 before, as long as you hit a few great shots a long the way the story is believable....

I get your advice but maybe he likes range time more than golf. Less pressure because you can forget the last bad shot and look forward to the next good shot. Some people enjoy beat ion balls more than playing. Each his own and the more range rats we have, the cheaper a round of golf is for us who golf.

[Larryrsf]

I get your advice but maybe he likes range time more than golf. Less pressure because you can forget the last bad shot and look forward to the next good shot. Some people enjoy beat ion balls more than playing. Each his own and the more range rats we have, the cheaper a round of golf is for us who golf.

I have written many times that I really hate to waste time. And a round of golf is 90% standing around watching someone else hit the ball. I enjoy the camaraderie with friends and especially while playing with another couple. But I only waste 4-5 hours ONCE a week and that on the weekend. I played this morning. Did fine, smoothed out my full swing and really played well. I learned that I need to develop and rigorously use a set pre-shot routine. I know I missed my targets several times primarily because my setup was erratic. Will do.

I do enjoy the range more than playing because I can hit 50 balls in less than an hour and move on.

Larry