Golden Bear v. Tiger. Who and why?

[NickP]

So you all know the Bear is playing his last competetive tournament at the open. I read his stats at the majors and they are needless to say, impressive. The guy on sporstcenter said the Bear was the Tiger before there was a Tiger. The Bear has won each major three times.
Now based on what you know about Tiger and the Bear, who would you pick and why between the both at the top of their games?

[Pancho-Villa]

[I]

So you all know the Bear is playing his last competetive tournament at the open. I read his stats at the majors and they are needless to say, impressive. The guy on sporstcenter said the Bear was the Tiger before there was a Tiger. The Bear has won each major three times.
Now based on what you know about Tiger and the Bear, who would you pick and why between the both at the top of their games?

[/I]


I would say Tiger. He has a better short game and better clutch putter than Jack was.

[jordoo]

The bear over the tiger for sure. Lets see first the bear never cries or moves bolders in his way. The big bear would lure the all confidant tiger in and right when the tiger thought he could pounce on that bear He'd realize that the bear was already ontop of him over power ing him end of story. LOL

Imagine how far Jack in his prime would have hit today equipment. Plus he has all the records that tiger is trying to get so he has already done it. Also I think that although Jack is certainly a more humble and down to earth guy in my oppinion he is even more competative than Eldrick. One year after Tying for secound in the masters with Johny Miller . Jack leaned over to Miller after they had recieved there secound place medalls and said "Big deal secound place" as sarcasticly as he could. I also think that Jack did better moulding his game to certain courses over his carrier. His course managment was far supirior to Woods who finds himself in trouble far more often. Plus if Jack needed the put I think it more likely that he would make it over Tiger woho hasn't had so many super pressure puts on the last hole's of Majors.

[Pancho-Villa]

I guess the birdie putt to win the Masters had absolutely no pressure behind it at all??? Wasn't it Bob May who sunk the birdie putt on 18 to take the lead in the 2000 PGA Championship. Leaving Tiger a 6 footer just to get into a playoff and win his third Major in a row. Eventually beating Bob May in the playoff. This man was raised to use pressure to his advantage.

Tiger has done some amazing things that even Jack himself has said he doesn't know how he does it; And wasn't it Arnold Palmer that said Tiger won't be better than Jack, He'll be better than all of us put together??(refering to Jack, Arnold, and Gary Player in a golf channel interview)

Tiger was not raised as a spoiled brat, and if you were worth 1/2 Billion dollars wouldn't you be vocal about YOUR needs and wants!! I know I would.. Money is power, and he has a-lot of both.

[jordoo]

Ya I'd say I want u to move that boulder so I can hit the ball please.lol

Jack has had more come from behind charges than Tiger. I didn't say Tiger was not good under pressure just that I think Jack was better. I also think that Arnold is a Gentlman and was being complamentary to someone at the top of thier game.

Plus Jack was raised to be a man not a golfer like Tiger. Is Tiger Great Yah I just don't think he would be better than Jack in his prime. I think if Jack was in his prime today He would out drive tiger as well as almost everyone else.

[Pancho-Villa]

I do agree that Arnold is a gentleman; but he was saying what he saw, not being just complimentary.

It's hard to argue that the man we seem to be comparing to Tiger is the same man who said this,"He's more complete," "Whatever I had, I think this young man has more of it." Jack Nicklaus.

[jordoo]

Maby he used up too much of 'IT" because he wouldn't have beaten Jack or Arnold in the final round of this years Masters if they where in their prime. Demarco out played him in the final round he made up a few stroaks. Tigers shot on 16 saved him from probable loss.
By the way that shot was both ballsy and super skillful. But I don't think u would have ever seen jack in that possition he just wouldn't have put it there in that situation. I think that Jack is very impressed with Tiger but deep down inside I bet he thinks he could get the best of him nomatter what he says. Remember Jack was the altimate competitor of his time, he demanded execution. If tiger breaks his major records and has half as many 2nds and 3rds in majors as Jack did then I may try to reconsider but for Know I disagree as respectably as I can .

[PA Jayhawk]

[I][/I]


I would say Tiger. He has a better short game and better clutch putter than Jack was.

Sorry, but growing up watch watching Nicklaus, and now watching Woods, I do not believe I have ever seen a more "clutch" putter than Nicklaus. I just think Nicklaus was more calm, cool and collected when the ball went in the hole. From looking at his reaction, you would think it was another day on the putting green as opposed to a 1 stroke victory in a Major. Not that there is anything wrong with Tiger's reactions, it is actually pretty mild in today's standard, and gets the crowd into the match.

When Tiger starts Toting a 1 iron in his bag and learns to hit flagsticks with it to win championships I will probably say Tiger, until then, I'll stick with The Bear. In time I am sure Tiger will surpass Nicklaus, but he still has a ways to go.

[jordoo]

PJ imagine what jack would be like in his prime with todays shafts and balls and club heads it would be sick.

U are right very few can drop a 1i in high and soft from 240 off the deck onto slick greens

[PA Jayhawk]

It's hard to argue that the man we seem to be comparing to Tiger is the same man who said this,"He's more complete," "Whatever I had, I think this young man has more of it." Jack Nicklaus.

There is a thing called modesty and respect. I think this comment show a little of both from Nicklaus, and says alot about his character. Not comments you would associatte with a "Spoiled Brat"

Muhammad Ali said the same about Mike Tyson, when Tyson was in his prime. Mainly because it was a Moot point. In Twenty years (or even tomorrow), there will no comparison. Ali will still carry the title "The greatest of all Time", Tyson will be remembered as a knock out puncher that had a 2 cent head and went to prison and lost all of his money. Not that I'm comparing Tiger to Tyson in any way. I would say up to this point, Tiger is by far the second best golfer I have ever watch play the game.

[PA Jayhawk]

Another fair question to think about in this questions. It comes up alot when comparing, say, Jordan to Chamberlain.

The Competition.

Would you compare Mickelson, Ells, Singh to say Palmer, Player, Trevino, and Watson???

[jordoo]

Sry thats PA not PJ (jayhawk)

[PA Jayhawk]

PJ imagine what jack would be like in his prime with todays shafts and balls and club heads it would be sick.

U are right very few can drop a 1i in high and soft from 240 off the deck onto slick greens

Not a problem on the name. I can't remember who said it a few years back when they were asking what they do during Lightning storms. One said "I go out in the fairway and wave around a 1 iron, because not even GOD can hit a 1 iron."

[GoMocs]

Another fair question to think about in this questions. It comes up alot when comparing, say, Jordan to Chamberlain.

The Competition.

Would you compare Mickelson, Ells, Singh to say Palmer, Player, Trevino, and Watson???

I wouldn't compare Jordan and Chamberlin, that is apples and oranges. Jordan and Oscar Robertson yes.

[GoMocs]

Not a problem on the name. I can't remember who said it a few years back when they were asking what they do during Lightning storms. One said "I go out in the fairway and wave around a 1 iron, because not even GOD can hit a 1 iron."

Lee Trevino if memory serves said it.

[PA Jayhawk]

I wouldn't compare Jordan and Chamberlin, that is apples and oranges. Jordan and Oscar Robertson yes.

I fully agree, it is just a comparison you get alot, another which is pretty moot. The only way to really compare the two as far as greatness, is to take who they played against on a daily bases in the position they played. Besides, I already know Chamberlain was the Greatest ;)

[jordoo]

Its alot a work to compare all the competition that these two guys have played against. I don't know witch way i would lean on that one probably Palmer over Mic, Sing and Els is like a wash against Watson and Player. Oh I don't Know that s a real tough one.

[Pancho-Villa]

Great points all of you have; but, if you compare these two up to Tigers age now the statistics show Tiger is the better golfer, that's were I'm pulling my argument from.

[jordoo]

I don't think guys started professionaly as early back then as they do and can now. I have no real evidence of this however.lol

Also remember jack got much better after marraige and family, Tiger just starting that phase of life and 4 him seems like an ajustment period. He is still dominant as before for certain periods but not all the time like a couple years ago. If he wants to get back to being the best all the time instead of some of the time he should learn some hummility from the older players and call Butch Harmon . When they were together Tiger was humming and rarin to go every time out.

[golfwifan]

If 20 years from now Tiger has only one or 2 more majors will we be having this argument? No we won't Until he breaks the record he is not the greatest ever, He may be on pace or ahead of were other people were at his age but this is largly Irelivent. Many things could happen that would change things not the least of which is an injury. Thats what makes sports great Unscripted Drama!!! If this was a Movie we all know Tiger would break the record. As far as biggest Impact on the game Tiger is far and away the person with the biggest impact on the sport as far as creating interest among people who never cared before.

[Pancho-Villa]

So you all know the Bear is playing his last competetive tournament at the open. I read his stats at the majors and they are needless to say, impressive. The guy on sporstcenter said the Bear was the Tiger before there was a Tiger. The Bear has won each major three times.
Now based on what you know about Tiger and the Bear, who would you pick and why between the both at the top of their games?

This is the original question;and based on statistics Tiger IS the better of the two. If Tiger was at the top of his game in 2000-2001 then so be it, but he was better.

[jordoo]

I still think head to head in their prime Mano v Mano.Jack comes out the winner.I am not saying that u have not made good pionts I just feel like Tiger still has too prove it to me show me that he is the best for a while longer replace my memorise of Jack with ones of him.

Guess neether one of us will convince the other on our piont of view here , drat new I shoulda been on the High School debate teem.
lol

[GoMocs]

. As far as biggest Impact on the game Tiger is far and away the person with the biggest impact on the sport as far as creating interest among people who never cared before.

I think that is questionable. Wasn't pro golf almost a fringe sport until Arnold Palmer came along with his "armies" and brought pro golf to the mass public? Until then it was viewed as a sport of the rich. They say that it was him that caused the explosion of golf on tv.

[Pancho-Villa]

I still think head to head in their prime Mano v Mano.Jack comes out the winner.I am not saying that u have not made good pionts I just feel like Tiger still has too prove it to me show me that he is the best for a while longer replace my memorise of Jack with ones of him.

Guess neether one of us will convince the other on our piont of view here , drat new I shoulda been on the High School debate teem.
lol

My mother always wanted me to be a lawyer...... I never could understand why..

I do agree that Tiger still needs to prove he can dominate for more than just one decade;but, what a decade he's had. 142 consecutive cuts, held #1 player for 334 weeks( 264 in a row), 9 Majors, 100 top10 finishes in 154 starts, 1st and only golfer to own all for majors at once(hence the term"Tiger Slam"), 58 wins, and was the youngest player ever to have won all four majors.

These stats are phenominal and very persuasive, you have to agree.
I love golf and follow many players including Tiger. I hold no bias towards him, it's just that he is that good!! He has me convinced.

[GoMocs]

My mother always wanted me to be a lawyer...... I never could understand why..

.... 100 top10 finishes in 154 starts, 1st and only golfer to own all for majors at once(hence the term"Tiger Slam"), 58 wins, and was the youngest player ever to have won all four majors.
.

Ah, as a neophyte here, didn't Bobby Jones twice hold all four titles that were accepted as the four majors at that point in time? I know the tournaments in question have changed, but Bobby Jones is credited with the "grand slams" isn't he????

[Pancho-Villa]

Ah, as a neophyte here, didn't Bobby Jones twice hold all four titles that were accepted as the four majors at that point in time? I know the tournaments in question have changed, but Bobby Jones is credited with the "grand slams" isn't he????

I do believe you are correct!! Although two of the tournaments were amatuer titles that were considered Majors, The British and US Amatuer titles.

[PA Jayhawk]

Great points all of you have; but, if you compare these two up to Tigers age now the statistics show Tiger is the better golfer, that's were I'm pulling my argument from.

I would strongly agree with you in this point, he was probably a better golfer in the beginning of his career. But in the same breath, I find myself asking what has he done in the last 2 years.

It would appear based on his performance this year, he is taking a step in the right direction, but again, in the last two years he has proven that he is only human. If he keeps his head in the game and fights through adversity year after year like he obviously did by the way performed since Singh took over the #1 spot, he will probably be the best player in the history of golf. But it is a long and winding road, that was paved by players like Jack Nicklaus, who have already payed their dues and kept their head in the game for 20+ years. Alot can happen. 10 years ago, I would have thought that John Daly could have done the same, he did a great job working through his issues, but it took a long time and may have taken him out of the golf history books.