Why Does Everyone Play the Blue Tees?

[wwjdwithca]

Nearly every time I play I am amazed at the shear number of players that don't understand what tee box they are supposed to be playing on.

Of course, it's to everyone's own discression as to what set of tees they play from, but there are some standards for "rule of thumb" tee box selection. Which most material I've seen says 5 handicap and below are intended for the blue tees. Many people I've spoken to tell me that they are intended for scratch players.

So why dooes nearly every guy on the course play from the blues?

If anyone thinks that the slope, and course rating equalize the difficulty of the playing the blue tees.......they are QUITE mistaken! Slope and course ratings are based on scratch players where adding distance does not have the same effect.

For example: Take a par 3 that plays 145 yards from the whites and 175 yards from the blues. This is extremely common, and in this case it's at least a 1/2 stroke penalty. Myself for example, I would hit a 7 or 8 iron from 145 and probably a 5 iron from 175. I personally would be firing at the pin from 145, and would be happy to hit the green with a 5 iron in hand, so for me it's nearly a stroke penalty (I'm a nine by the way).

I've asked a lot of people why they play from the blues and the only answer I ever get is, "I want to get my money's worth." Seems to me it's simply testastarone. What say you?

[Guru2]

Well put,very true.I myself have a chance of breaking 80 from the whites at most of the courses my buddy and I play in our area.My friend and I usally play the whites since that gives us the channce for more birdies and that equals more fun.The course we play most often is an Arnald Palmer design.(His name is on it anyway) Whites = 6200 Blues = 6500 Golds = 7200.The whites and blues are not too different,but the golds have a lot of 200 yard par 3's and 450-470 yard par 4's.Since it's usally just myself and my friend we often get paired with another twosome.And guess what the other guys always insist on playing from the tips.We quit trying to argue with these guys and play from the tips.We however change our statagy,the 460 yard par 4's we play as par 5's.The 200 yard par 3's-we just want the ball to clear the water and give yourself a chance at par(no matter where the pin is).The most common scene we see is a guy trying to rip a drive,screwing it up,then trying to recover with his 13 degree 3 wood,screwing it up,then having no wedge game to back it up.Anyway,I agree with you ww...

[fred3]

Nearly every time I play I am amazed at the shear number of players that don't understand what tee box they are supposed to be playing on.

Of course, it's to everyone's own discression as to what set of tees they play from, but there are some standards for "rule of thumb" tee box selection. Which most material I've seen says 5 handicap and below are intended for the blue tees. Many people I've spoken to tell me that they are intended for scratch players.

So why dooes nearly every guy on the course play from the blues?

If anyone thinks that the slope, and course rating equalize the difficulty of the playing the blue tees.......they are QUITE mistaken! Slope and course ratings are based on scratch players where adding distance does not have the same effect.

For example: Take a par 3 that plays 145 yards from the whites and 175 yards from the blues. This is extremely common, and in this case it's at least a 1/2 stroke penalty. Myself for example, I would hit a 7 or 8 iron from 145 and probably a 5 iron from 175. I personally would be firing at the pin from 145, and would be happy to hit the green with a 5 iron in hand, so for me it's nearly a stroke penalty (I'm a nine by the way).

I've asked a lot of people why they play from the blues and the only answer I ever get is, "I want to get my money's worth." Seems to me it's simply testastarone. What say you?

the "Blue" tees to mean the tees furthest back then it depends on the course and it's overall length from the rear tees. If it's a course that measures greater than about 6700 yds then I don't play them. I don't hit my tee shot far enough(I'm a 5 handicap). Unless it's a tournament and then I play the ones they say I must.

I knew the folks that used to do the course handicapping here in Maine(it's done the same way nationwide) and it's not just based on being a scratch player. It's based on numerous variables like length of hole in relation to par, water in play and where. Bunkers in play and where. Uphill holes, size of greens, depth of bunkers, narrowness of fairways, etc, etc, etc.

I usually play the tees I'm comfortable from and I think you will find that a lot of the players playing from the back most tees shouldn't, talent wise, be playing from them. I agree it's a macho thing for some of them. As for getting their money's worth I'm sure you realize it's just an excuse to say they played from the tips(the tees the furthest back) and can, if need be, can use that as a reason they didn't score so well. Very few "golfers" intentionally play from a tee that'll raise their handicap unless forced to do so. I have, on occasion, played from tees shorter than the rest of the group and watched them struggle to get bogie.

[golfaholic]

I play from the blue tees at my course. it's more of a challange and in my case it dosent slow down play at all. in the junior tourniment at my home course we have to play from the red tees and then on the back 9 we play from whit tees. (9 hole course) In the first round i shot 77. I was in the group with the two best juniors at my course and they both shot 76. they played bad..but i liked it . now if i would have played from the blue tees i would have had around 79 or 80. I like the blue tees more because A) more of a challange, B) i mostly play with older more skilled players and i want to play the same tees as them so i can compare my score with theirs at the end of the day.

[Dr Shteeve]

Second only to slow play, this is a personal PEEVE! Especially since I go to Hilton Head once a year with a group of 12-16, and there is universal insistence (except from me) to play the "6500" tees. The group usually has 1 or 2 with handicaps below 10 (sometimes none), 3 or 4 with handicaps 11-15, and the rest from 16 to 30. And we're playing in early March - usually cool (sometimes cold), often wet, and, of course, the majority of players haven't played much, if at all, for 1-3 months.

The last time we played we had 12 players, played 4 rounds, and had 2 rounds below 90 - that's 2 rounds out of 48! Yet imagine the reaction to suggesting that we play the whites (or whatever is about 6000 yards)!? There is some kind of ego thing that is unbelievably strong - "we're not men if we don't play 6500 thing".

Let's see - we can play the course so that the best players have a shot at breaking 90 (that's perhaps 2 or 3 of 12, or 3 or 4 of 16), the rest fortunate to break 100, or we can play the course that drops those to 80 and 90 respectively. I just don't get it.

Don't get me wrong - summertime, or anytime it's dry, most of the players are playing regularly, etc. - 6500 may be reasonable. But end of winter, cool, wet?! Makes no sense.

Man, ego's are huge! And they sure get in the way of more fun at the course!

[Dr Shteeve]

Playing the wrong tees also causes my biggest peeve, slow play!

All this could be easily managed by courses providing rangers that would politely, but firmly, ask handicaps and then have the golfers play the appropriate tees. For mixed groups, playing 2 teeboxes should be no problem.

[Sandpiper6]

Definately... where i play its a bit out of the way from the closest town, so we get alot of (not trying to be racist here) rich asian players, with all the best equip. money can buy, but their swings look like they want to die or something, but the biggest sadness about that is that their practise swings look great....and the bigger thing is theyre egotistical, so they think theyre the best, so they play from the backs (black tees at my course)....and theyre not even close to 15 hdcps....generally if courses play the 3 tee system its 0-5 back tees, 6-20 middle, and then the womens tees.... but so many ppl think so much of themselves they believe they can handle the back tees and then the one thing everyone hates.....SLOWS UP PLAY!

[Dr Shteeve]

The worst kind of woman is the high maintenance that thinks she's a low maintenance.

The worst kind of golfer is the slow player that thinks (s)he's a fast player.

The second worst kind of golfer is the 20 handicap who thinks (s)he's a 6.

[Sandpiper6]

no,no, i have to dissagree with the 3rd one.... its someone who barely ever breaks 110 who thinks he can shoot under par, whose excuse is if i just hit my shots better i would have done it (true story)

[bethpage caddy]

Depends on the course. If I'm playing the Bethpage Green, sure I'll play from the blues, because I don't want to play from the whites where the yardage is about 6,300.

What I find funny is the businessmen who play the black course who insist on playing BEYOND the blues just to play where the pros did. On one par 4 hole it is a 280 carry over bunkers to REACH the fairway, leaving you with 215+ on your second shot.

[Sandpiper6]

lol, i cant say i may not do the same thing, if i had a chance to play there id love to play from the same tees as the pros, see where id score vs them(although id know that their conditions would be a lot harder) and id just be a great experience..... although from my perspective its a little different than the businessmen's.... their just there to disscuss the latest and hopefully get somethin done.... sometimes...

[garcia is god]

lol, i cant say i may not do the same thing, if i had a chance to play there id love to play from the same tees as the pros, see where id score vs them(although id know that their conditions would be a lot harder) and id just be a great experience..... although from my perspective its a little different than the businessmen's.... their just there to disscuss the latest and hopefully get somethin done.... sometimes...

It's ok once in a while. When I played Pebble, our group played off the middle tees for most of the round EXCEPT the 18th.. having recently seen the pros play this hole in the US Open, we all decided to play off the back just for that hole. Great memories.

[bethpage caddy]

I guess the caddies point of view would vary from the golfers. I'm the one that has to chase that errant tee shot.

[wwjdwithca]

I knew the folks that used to do the course handicapping here in Maine(it's done the same way nationwide) and it's not just based on being a scratch player. It's based on numerous variables like length of hole in relation to par, water in play and where. Bunkers in play and where. Uphill holes, size of greens, depth of bunkers, narrowness of fairways, etc, etc, etc.

You've mixed-up handicapping and course ratings. Course ratings and Slope are numbers that indicate how difficult a course plays.....for a scratch golfer. If a course is a par 72, and is rated at 69, that means a scratch golfer would shoot 69. Slope is basically the amount of danger just off the fairways or the the greens

When your handicap is calculated the course rating and slope affect what's called the handicap differential for the round. What I was saying is that I believe many golfers think that the extra amount of difficulty playing from the blue tees is adjusted by the course rating and by the slope (which is different for every set of tees), and equalizes your handicap differential score. But the reality is that for most of us, this is not the case. Course ratings are caculated based on a scratch golfer. Adding 300 yards to the length of a course only adds a stroke or two to a scratch golfer, but it adds 3-4 strokes to a 15 handicapper.

I don't know about you, but I don't want 3-4 strokes added to my rounds.

[Sandpiper6]

its all about the experience right? im betting that youve tried it with some buddies for kicks...... and especially when your coming in from different parts of the country, continent or world, its all for kicks

[garcia is god]

I guess the caddies point of view would vary from the golfers. I'm the one that has to chase that errant tee shot.

We didn't play with caddies

[amklost]

The course rating is what a scratch golf (as defined by the USGA) would those particular tees. The slope rating is the relative difficulty for a bogey golfer:

"Slope Rating®: A Slope Rating is the USGA® mark that indicates the measurement of the relative playing difficulty of a course for players who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers. It is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA Course Rating times a constant factor and is expressed as a whole number from 55 to 155."

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...ng_primer.html

[+to0to-]

I would probably put some of the blame for this phenomenon to 2 things that has happened in the last few years :

Longer and Longer courses &
Bigger and Bigger Drivers (Fueling bigger and bigger Ego's).

Most of the longer courses I play have 4 sets of tees (0-5, 6-15, 16-25, 26+ handicap). The Blues are for the 6 - 15 range and are about 6400-6600 yds. Most ppl look at the Scorecard and see quite a few 325 - 375 par 4's and decide they can deal with the Blues. Funny part is, a lot of them are layup holes and driving them is tricky.

Another factor that comes into play is when 2 guys with very varying skill levels play together. It really makes it very inconvenient to tee off from different tee boxes and they mostly tee off from the hardest set of tees.

[PA Jayhawk]

Another factor that comes into play is when 2 guys with very varying skill levels play together. It really makes it very inconvenient to tee off from different tee boxes and they mostly tee off from the hardest set of tees.

I think this can be a big key, and if I am playing better, I have no problem with playing off the tips even though it does not meet the criteria that most people seem to think has been established to allow for this option.

The key is playing within your means and not within you tees. It is more important to be able to realize when it is time to move up. Right now I rarely play off the tips as I rarely hit my driver and woods as well as I did 2 years ago. Although 2 years ago I usually played off the tips, and I scored better from the tips than I did say the White tees.

This again gets into the all to common falsehood that distance and handicap are relative. I am probably farther off the tee than some single digit handicap, although time wise it doesn't matter if I am 100 yards out in the woods or 140 yards out in the woods. I think people forget the fact that most of the people who are criticized for playing off the tips on a mid handicap, would probably also be criticized by the same person when they still opt for their driver when it will put them say 50 yards from the hole. So it is not like playing of closer tees is really going to speed up the round much. They will still be looking for their ball in the trees 50 yards away when you hit your shot to your 100 yard mark in the fairway from the tips. I can guarantee you will still be waiting for the green to clear regardless of which tees they play from.

I think it is again a matter of knowing your means and playing within them. The height of your handicap as nothing to do with course management and etiquette. This is what should be criticized if anything. I would be far more pissed at he guy who plays off the White tees and spends 10 minutes every hole looking for a stray shot, then the guy who plays off the tips and occasionally mishits to the red tees.

In all honesty, if you are playing a foursome and playing off seperate tees it can be slower than having to wait an occasional hole for a mishit. Although I would question if a guys ego is in check if he plays off the tips and does not enjoy a round because he cannot reach half of the greens in two. There are alot of bad golfers than can play quickly off of the tips, whereas there are quite a few really good golfers that play very, very, slowly off the tips that I would rather see leave the course. It is really a matter of using good judgement and not good ability. If you play off the tips and do not reach the fairway, you lie 250 yards out in the rough and wait for the green to clear in the sense that you may "Get a hold of one". I am go to be pissed that you are not playing an iron up now, and I am going to have to wait again after you chunk the wood 50 yards. Although I doubt if you have the same lie and use the same poor judgement when you play off the whites, it isn't going to make me feel any better that you play off the whites. Again this is just poor judgement, even if you play off the Reds. Simply moving to a closer tee will not give you better judgement

edit 1 - another consideration from one who played off the tips as a 15 a couple years ago, it was really boring playing a tee shot with either a driver, 3w, or 5w to within a full SW or GW every hole and never using irons except on par 3's. This just made for a really boring round. Playing off the tips would allow for better use of all clubs and allow you to use a driver, which I do very little when I play off the Whites.

[PHSgolfguy]

i always play by my personal rule that if its a course im probably going to play once like on a golf trip or something, i might as well play the tips and get the full experience of the course instead of going lights out from shorter tees. i'm a 1.9 index so the tips/slope/rating really dont affect me because i always play from the tips anyway.

[PA Jayhawk]

i'm a 1.9 index so the tips/slope/rating really dont affect me because i always play from the tips anyway.

Another important point that people overlook. Most of the courses I play up here are around 130+ slope off the Whites. To many people look at Distance and not Slope. I've played course frequently before with blue tees at 5200 yards and a slope of 112. My home course up here off the whites is 5500 and a slope of 132. Again, a matter of judgement, should we follow the rule and I should play the White tees on the slope of 112 because my handicap fits that range?

Although at the other course, I constantly see people complaining that others should be playing off the whites. They should be using judgement of their own in realizing that the group in front maybe doesn't belong on the course from either the Reds, Whites, or Blues. You will not find them complaining that the group of high handicappers put 3 holes between them and they have the nerve to play off the same tees as a true single digit handicapper.

[Dr Shteeve]

Well, despite my previous rant, obviously there can be times and reasons to play any particular teebox. Courteous, reasonably paced (means fast paced to me) golf can be played from any teebox, and really with any score from 65 to 135.

[wwjdwithca]

The course rating is what a scratch golf (as defined by the USGA) would those particular tees. The slope rating is the relative difficulty for a bogey golfer:

"Slope Rating®: A Slope Rating is the USGA® mark that indicates the measurement of the relative playing difficulty of a course for players who are not scratch golfers, compared to scratch golfers. It is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA Course Rating times a constant factor and is expressed as a whole number from 55 to 155."

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...ng_primer.html

Isn't that what I said?

Actually, I said it where someone could actually understand it!

[PA Jayhawk]

Well, despite my previous rant, obviously there can be times and reasons to play any particular teebox. Courteous, reasonably paced (means fast paced to me) golf can be played from any teebox, and really with any score from 65 to 135.

Although, I think what you've mentioned is in fact the real issue here. That being Slow Play. If you are a fast and courteous player, it is not going to matter where you play from, because if you do not annoy the people in your group or the people behind you then they will assume that you are probably suited to play off the tees you currently play from.

My thought on this is that you need to evaluate the Distance, Slope and Rating and make an educated decision on the best choice. Many courses in our old area were limited by space, so back to my prior example, 5200 on one course with a slope of 112 is not harder than 5500 yards on another course with a slope of 132 simply because the Tee is Blue, and it is certainly not something that I would rule out and immediately move to the closer tees. I usually ignore the tees and simply fit the distance and slope that I feel is appropriate to the way I currently play the game and what I can best enjoy. For my game right now, ideally I look for a tee that is preferably less than 6500 yards and has a slope preferably close to or lower than 130. Slope is more what I look at though. My home course is only 5900 yards off the Blues, although the slope is 137. I am tormented enough by the 5500 yards off the whites. A couple years ago I was comfortable with playing off tees up to 7000 and a slope around 135 or lower., as I was much better with my woods and driver. Trying to play that now would just not be an enjoyable experience.

Regardless, it still comes back to the same thing, I can pretty much guarantee that regardless of where I play from, I will be waiting on the rest of my foursome and probably the group in front of us more than 90% of the time, even if I am constantly digging my ball out of the woods. I really don't care where the people I play with or that play in front of me tee off from, as I will only be annoyed if I have to constantly wait on them because of poor judgement and slow me down. The other exception to this rule is obviously if they are just unenjoyable to be around because they are having and bad round. If this could be solved by moving to a closer tee, then I would fault them for not doing so, but again that is just an issue of lack of judgement and not ability, and playing within their means.

[dorkman53]

I'll play on whatever teebox I need to keep the slope of the course somewhere between125-130. If I'm playing on a couple of the local courses with around 140 slopes from the blue, I'll play white any day to get the slope down to the 130 range. Much above 130 and for me it turns into more work than fun.

[fred3]

You've mixed-up handicapping and course ratings. Course ratings and Slope are numbers that indicate how difficult a course plays.....for a scratch golfer. If a course is a par 72, and is rated at 69, that means a scratch golfer would shoot 69. Slope is basically the amount of danger just off the fairways or the the greens

When your handicap is calculated the course rating and slope affect what's called the handicap differential for the round. What I was saying is that I believe many golfers think that the extra amount of difficulty playing from the blue tees is adjusted by the course rating and by the slope (which is different for every set of tees), and equalizes your handicap differential score. But the reality is that for most of us, this is not the case. Course ratings are caculated based on a scratch golfer. Adding 300 yards to the length of a course only adds a stroke or two to a scratch golfer, but it adds 3-4 strokes to a 15 handicapper.

I don't know about you, but I don't want 3-4 strokes added to my rounds.

yes you're right. I meant to say I know the folks that do the course ratings. Thanks.

[ce_me_golf]

Nearly every time I play I am amazed at the shear number of players that don't understand what tee box they are supposed to be playing on.

Of course, it's to everyone's own discression as to what set of tees they play from, but there are some standards for "rule of thumb" tee box selection. Which most material I've seen says 5 handicap and below are intended for the blue tees. Many people I've spoken to tell me that they are intended for scratch players.

So why dooes nearly every guy on the course play from the blues?

If anyone thinks that the slope, and course rating equalize the difficulty of the playing the blue tees.......they are QUITE mistaken! Slope and course ratings are based on scratch players where adding distance does not have the same effect.

For example: Take a par 3 that plays 145 yards from the whites and 175 yards from the blues. This is extremely common, and in this case it's at least a 1/2 stroke penalty. Myself for example, I would hit a 7 or 8 iron from 145 and probably a 5 iron from 175. I personally would be firing at the pin from 145, and would be happy to hit the green with a 5 iron in hand, so for me it's nearly a stroke penalty (I'm a nine by the way).

I've asked a lot of people why they play from the blues and the only answer I ever get is, "I want to get my money's worth." Seems to me it's simply testastarone. What say you?

On par 4's if you can get to the green in two shots then that's the distance you should be playing from. On par 5's if you can get to the green in three shots that's the tee you should be playing from. And high handicaps do not necessarily mean slow play. Slow play comes down to how long does it take for a golfer to size up his shot, how many practice swings they take and how long it takes them to hit the ball. Ben Crane is an excellent golfer but I can play a round faster than he can yet he would end up beating me by probably 15 to 20 strokes.

[golfslo]

One of our local courses - Cypress Ridge - has what I think is a good solution to this problem - the Combo Tees.

The Combo Tees are setup so golfers can play half the holes from the Blues and half from the Whites. The slope of the course is reduced to 126 by playing Combos, making it a reasonable choice for average golfers - especially those who don't want to appear "wimpy" by playing the Whites.

The scorecard lists the recommended tees for different ranges of handicaps as well.

I find that just about EVERYONE who plays Cypress Ridge plays the Combo Tees. It gives them the opportunity to play beyond the Whites, but keeps the slope of the course within reason for the average golfer. Plus you get to play Blue off the 1st tee, so those whose egos require it, can appear to be "manly" golfers to those watching their 1st tee shot.

I'm always amazed how few golfers play the Blues on this course - usually only those who have earned it - scatch golfers and single handicappers.