Membership sound reasonable?

**erock139** · 07-12-2005

Hello All.
Made a few calls in regards to membership at a club of sorts. This particular one stood out. Manager (or whatever position he has) was really nice and receptive. Very informative and nice lad.

Club called Woodlake Country Club here in Lakewood, NJ. About 15 mins away. Membership (pro-rated) for $1500, valid through December 31st. Includes free range (no coin monkey-business), chipping and practice area. Green fees included. Unlimited play, course and range. Strictly private. Big pimpin'.

Does this sound semi-fair? I'm trying to do the math and figure out how much I will end up spending monthly - this might sound interesting. The guy is going to let me check the place out today. Maybe dig a couple holes on the range/chipping area and lose a couple balls.

Opinions? Thanks...

e

**Mward2002** · 07-12-2005

Depends.. And this is a large depends so you need to either find out the full details, or be much more clear what type of deal you have with the club owner. You said the membership was 1500 pro rated. However that means it's either prorated for 1500 dollars from July 12th to December 12th, or from January 1 to December 31st.

If it's prorated from 7/12-12/31 and you're paying 1500, you're paying too much. You basically have a 172 day membership for 1500 dollars, the same amount that everybody else has had for 193 days more than you. That's 8.72 dollars PER day you're paying. If that were a year, you'd be paying the club owner 3183.14.

From 1/1 to 12/31, like the rest of the members, you'd be paying 4.11 dollars a day (1/365 x 1500).

Now I could be dead wrong, but based on the information you've given me that's the math I'm getting. Details are very very important, so if you have more information please feel free to give it to me and I'll re-work some of these numbers. However for your sake, the bold will help you with budgeting your monthly payments and what not. If when you add up the days and it is above 1500, or slightly below, with prorating you have to round up just like the government does when they make you pay property taxes and what not.

**erock139** · 07-12-2005

MWard....
I busted out the calculator just minutes after posting the message.
You are correct and I should have been a bit more crystal.

Original yearly membership is $3000. The fellow mentioned $1500 due to the fact that we are somewhat mid-year. However, we are a tad bit over mid-year, by about a month.

If I don't include the month of July, I'd be paying $300/month, from August to December. (That's a little much I think.) Doing some additional number-crunching, that's $75/week.

If I go to the range 2 times during the week and once before I play on Sunday, two buckets each time, $8/bucket = $48 on range fees only. Going to the local course costs me around $25 with cart if I play after 430pm and $36 with cart before 430pm. Total weekly fees: $25 + $48 = $73, just shy of the aforementioned $75. If I don't go to the range once for whatever reason, then I'd be better-off paying each time I go.

I'm going to talk to the fella and get it "officially" prorated. I should be paying $1257 or (($3000/365) * 153 days left in year starting August)).

Does this sound correct?

e

**PA Jayhawk** · 07-12-2005

Two things to ask, if you haven't already. All of the courses I've looked into or belong too will give unlimited greens fees, but will charge for the cart. Do the math. I pay $40 for the round or $17 for the cart as a member. Take whatever the bottom line per round is and figure out how many rounds you would have to play. Will you play that many? If you walk, this is not an issue. So with my example it is about a $1000 assuming my wife and I both join, a person per year, I would have to play 44 rounds a year at this course for it to pay for itself. Maybe a good deal, but then I would have to spend $80 a month on food and a $5000 initiation fee. I don't like the restaurant that much, and I like to play other courses. I probably played an average of once a week last year, since it is an 8-9 month year here, the membership was highway robbery. If I could walk here, I would probably play 4-5 rounds a week and it would be well worth the money. Just do the math.

The other thing to ask. All the clubs I have spoken with will offer the rest of the year free, around August or september if you join for next year. Find out if they do that at your course. You may only be paying for a couple more weeks if you plan to join next year. Ask some of the members. Better yet, ask the Pro shop if they will wave the rest of the year if you sign a contract for next year. Like PA, NJ only really has about 8-9 months of golf, and scattered in the winter.

Just a couple thoughts. Also make sure there is no initiation fee.

**PA Jayhawk** · 07-12-2005

Looks like you did the math while I was typing. I would ask members and the Pro Shop about if they give the end of the first year free to new members.

edit 1 - realize, they want returning members year after year, waiving the first half year is a good way to get permanent members.

**Mward2002** · 07-12-2005

Ok they do pro rate it based on 3000.. That's good to hear for your sake. Also, thanks for clearing up the numbers as quickly as you did. I checked your math and as of August 1st (the first day you'd be paying) to Dec 31st is 1257.54 just like what your math confirmed. However when I did it on a per month basis I got 251.51 (August-December = 5 months). I counted 22 weeks (153 days/7 days in a week) so it'd be 57.17 a week.

"If I go to the range 2 times during the week and once before I play on Sunday, two buckets each time, $8/bucket = $48 on range fees only. Going to the local course costs me around $25 with cart if I play after 430pm and $36 with cart before 430pm. Total weekly fees: $25 + $48 = $73, just shy of the aforementioned $75"

If range is free and you've calculated 48 saved in range fees, plus 25 in cart fees and that 73 is accurate, you're actually saving 17.84 a week.

Just on that alone, it sounds like a great deal. Within 2 and a half weeks you could buy yourself a dozen Nike One's, or a dozen Pro V1's if you wait 3 weeks.

That doesn't include benefits as a member of the club such as being able to have a USGA handicap, OR the fact you can now play the course for free whenever you'd like. Instead of going to the range and hitting 2 large buckets of balls, you can instead simply walk the course to an open hole, drop some balls and really work on course management, real 100 yard approach shots, etc. That in itself is a huge benefit and can be to your advantage as long as you don't hold up anyone's play behind you (if there is anyone behind you).

PS. Sorry for the delay in my reply. I had to purchase a new cell phone since I dropped mine into a lake on Sunday.

**sabalo7** · 07-12-2005

i think the key in determining if a membership is worth the money is; can you use it often and conveniently? make sure that the facility is close enough to use if even for just a short
practice session.also, can you get on easily when you want to play? there may be some tenured members who have the good times locked up on mornings and weekends.does the course host a lot of tournaments, either corporate or members?are they closed for maintenance part of a day, or an entire day?
also, don't overlook the business possibilities that come from the relationships that develop
at a club.other amenities can factor into your decision such as swimming pool,tennis,food
( is there a food minimum?)
for me, a membership was the right choice.my choice was between a club that was somewhat nicer, yet 15 minutes further from my home than the club i chose. i wish i had done it long ago. in 5 months of practice and unlimited play,along with one lesson per month, my number is down from 20 to 14.

**Mward2002** · 07-13-2005

So what was your end result? Membership or no?

**sabalo7** · 07-13-2005

i joined a country club the first of march. the dues are 292.00 per month tax included. because of a recent change of owners, the initiation fee was on special for 1,000.00 through april15.
this includes unlimited play and range, 2 putting greens,2 short game areas, and a 3 hole practice par 3 course. carts are 26.00 /13.00 for 18 and 13.00/6.50 for 9.you can also buy unlimited carts for 1,000.00 per year but i did not because here in houston it's flat and easy to walk.
i can now be on the range in 10 minutes from my house. since DST, my routine has been to hit the range tues. and thur. after work and walk 4 or 5 holes. i play in a 1:00 game on wed. i got to the short game area afterward. i then mix in at least 2 more rounds between
fri,sat,sunday.also, we have at least one mens golf assoc. tourney per month. if i don't want to practice, i can go out and walk 18 in 3 hours,ride in 2. the pace of play and course availability have been the biggest benefits to my game. no longer does it take 6-7
hours to drive to the course,play and get home.
now the money part. a daily fee course of comparable condition and slope rating to my course costs at least 60.00 in houston. a large bucket 8.00. carts even out. 3 rounds and 3 buckets per week=204.00. my current cost 73.00 per week and i can go anytime i want,
play as much or as little as i want, thay store my clubs,clean my clubs every time i hit,
and on a sat. nite or a holiday,i.e. mothers day,etc, i can always get a table at dinner with no wait. bottom line so far. 1 stroke per month off my hdcp. and a lotta fun.

**NickP** · 07-13-2005

Originally Posted by Mward2002

So what was your end result? Membership or no?

Sorry if I have missed this in previous posts but how much for guests? Are you in business for yourself and can you get a write off? What about cart fees as PAJ mentioned? Is it prestigous or semi prestigous to take guests for a lunch or dinner or have a business lunch or dinner?
I have a very good driving range where I can use the bunker and chip and putt for free. Also I can buy a range card which gives me 20 large buckets for $75.
Finally, do you want to commit yourself to one course or for $275/month or play on 3-6 different courses based upon green fees.

**sabalo7** · 07-13-2005

the guest fee is 35 weekday/45 weekend plus cart 26.00 for 2 riders 18 holes. i do have a business where i can write off guest fees and meals, but not the whole membership. this according to my cpa.check with yours.

i don't entertain clients for just lunch simply because the club and my work are too far apart. but i will tell you people love a day at the club for golf, some beverages, and a meal.
really impressive to prospects is when i invite their families to come to the pool or play tennis while we play golf. no guest fee for the pool or tennis. i have also closed a deal with an existing club member that will pay my dues for two year, and i expect more to come.

your last question is a good one, and one i really wrestled with. i made a commitment to myself last september to try and really improve my game. for six months, i had a range membership at a great facility and played many courses around houston but my game was not improving at the pace i wanted. i joined this club and have not looked back.
i have found you still get to play a lot of courses, you bring and a guest and they return the favor.watch for specials that don't make you feel guilty about cheating on your club.

**NickP** · 07-13-2005

Sounds like a win-win to me. Sign up and start playing.

**Mward2002** · 07-13-2005

When in doubt, make some friends at a neighboring private course or find some other people in your business who belong to private courses. Then the two of you can take advantage of each other's courses. Might be able to find some referral business, etc.

**bethpage caddy** · 07-13-2005

Make sure you like the course layout and the facilities and such before you drop down that first payment. It does sound like a great deal though. Free range balls! Man, I'd be at the range everyday if I didn't have to drop $7 for 70 balls over here.

Someone else pointed out that it would be roughly $4 a day, which is correct. I guarentee my golfing costs about that a day with range balls and greens fees, carts, and such. Especially with the amount most of us that post here play.

Go for it man!

**erock139** · 07-15-2005

Sorry for the long wait.
I asked around the office - basically, at my level, I might not get as much playing time as Im expecting. A membership at this stage might be a waste. It's also a bummer that the range closes at 6pm. I was hoping to at least get in a 2 or 3 days of range practice. But given my work conditions (meeting clients) and random days, some days I can't escape the office until a bit after 5. The course is 15 mins away.

The people I asked belong to these big-ballin clubs and they both mentioned I should just play the county public parks (which I have a resident card for) and better my game before joining anywhere. They were once county park golfers and mentioned there is really nothing wrong with playing there. (One guy is now a doctor and for social reasons must belong to a nicer club. You know how that goes.)

I'm really in no rush at the time. I'm also not sure I'd be able to get out that often. If I join it would be $75 per week FOR SURE, regardless if I play or not. And I think Im better off financially to pay as I play.

Thanks everyone,

e