Update: Grafalloy Blue vs. Aldila NV Green

[macmai]

First off, thanks to everyone who replied to my original thread "Low vs. High Ball Flight - advantages?". Thanks for giving a rip and making some really good suggestions.

As you all recall, the two main schools of thought were 1) Keep the same 9.5*, but get a stiffer tipped shaft, OR 2) Keep the same shaft, but try a lower loft (down to 8.5*). I tried both.

First Experiment:
I bought an identical TaylorMade r5 Type-N with 9.5* loft, but this one was shafted with the Grafalloy Blue (NOT the Prolaunch). Even at the first time at the range, I could tell the ball flight was lower, and MUCH more penetrating than the same head with the NV. The really odd thing is that the NV is also supposed to be a low trajectory shaft, but it made my ball balloon terribly. Well, I refrained from posting an update until I took the new club out to the course. Even in wet conditions (Houston has been getting gobs of rain), I was putting the ball about 30-40 yds past the NV version of the r5...serioiusly...confirmed by my regular playing partners. So, even though the NV shafted r5 was very straight, I was only getting about 230 yds because of the ballooning. Just by changing shafts, I got about 30-40 yds more than that. I NEVER KNEW how much difference the right shaft-head-loft combination can make.

Second Experiment
Ok, even though the above experiment proved successful, I had to try the other one or else it would always bug me (thats the quality club-ho that I am ). So, I bought a Callaway x460 Tour with 8.5* of loft shafted with the Aldila NV stiff (like the original r5 I had). Took it to the range today to compare w/ with the Graf Blue r5. I hit both about the same distance, with the same ball trajectory (at times the 8.5* X460 actually seemed HIGHER!). I would compare my best drives of each and can honestly say they're about the same. Now, what was noticeably different was the dispertion of shots between the two. I found that the shot pattern with the r5 was better than with the X460.

So, in the end, it would seem that the r5 w/ Grafalloy Blue keeps the spot in my bag. Another observation is that I can REALLY go for it with the Grafalloy Blue vs. the NV, so I think this is a shaft I can grow into as I learn to increase my club speed over time. So what of the X460? Not sure a the moment. I may keep it around for times when I need to work on my tempo (definitely a tempo shaft for me now), or I may sell it...not sure.

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post, but thought the experiment was rather interesting. Wanted to share it since I've noticed a lot of questions around shafts, etc. lately. Hope you all enjoy and thanks again for the advice!

[mpkelley20]

On your second experiment I don't know if the comparison of the two shafts is really an apples to apples comparison since you were using different clubheads and different lofts. You said the shot distance was the same but the dispersion was different. How do you know that the shot dispersion wasn't caused by the clubhead design or loft? I think a better way to test this (although expensive) is to try the X460 with the Graffaloy shaft sicne you have already tried the NV. Otherwise, you can't really be 100% sure if there is a difference in shaft performance on that specific club.

At least you were able to fix the problem with your original R5. Seems the Graffaloy shaft seems to fit you much better with that clubhead.

[macmai]

On your second experiment I don't know if the comparison of the two shafts is really an apples to apples comparison since you were using different clubheads and different lofts. You said the shot distance was the same but the dispersion was different. How do you know that the shot dispersion wasn't caused by the clubhead design or loft? I think a better way to test this (although expensive) is to try the X460 with the Graffaloy shaft sicne you have already tried the NV. Otherwise, you can't really be 100% sure if there is a difference in shaft performance on that specific club.

At least you were able to fix the problem with your original R5. Seems the Graffaloy shaft seems to fit you much better with that clubhead.

You've got a point...but remember the first experiment was comparing shafts w/ identical heads. The second experiment would have been best carried out if I could have found an r5 8.5* loft w/ NV stiff shaft...but I couldn't find one w/ those configurations at a good price.

Yah, I'm just thrilled that I found a nice combo for my swing. Strangely enough, I would have thought a Grafalloy Blue stiff shaft would be way too stiff for me since I don't swing very fast (measured at 95mph on launch monitor, but I hate hitting in those indoor cages). Go figure.

[Jimbo1013]

I have the blue shaft in a mp-001 400 driver and this setup has really improved my driving ability. It was frustrating at first because this combo is very unforgiving....needless to say i got better

[macmai]

I have the blue shaft in a mp-001 400 driver and this setup has really improved my driving ability. It was frustrating at first because this combo is very unforgiving....needless to say i got better

Wow, what loft do you have on the MP-001? I tried an MP-001 once w/ 10.5* and the Fuji Tour Platform 26.3 shaft in it. I couldn't get that combo airborne to save my life. I've been told the MP-001's play to a degree lower than stated, but geez, sure wasn't suited for my swing. How are you liking it now?

[Eric in NOVA]

measured at 95mph on launch monitor

You're hitting 260 yards with a 95 MPH swing....something's not right.

[Sandpiper6]

he forgot to mention either the wind was at his back, or that because he was at the range they dont set theyre distances properly because 1. ground is not perfectly flat. 2. they make ppl think its longer to help their egos.

[Jimbo1013]

Wow, what loft do you have on the MP-001? I tried an MP-001 once w/ 10.5* and the Fuji Tour Platform 26.3 shaft in it. I couldn't get that combo airborne to save my life. I've been told the MP-001's play to a degree lower than stated, but geez, sure wasn't suited for my swing. How are you liking it now?

I have it in a 9* loft and it feels better and flies farther than any of my cleveland drivers. The flight is awesome too, but all that being said it is not forgiving period. Well i shouldnt say that, but its not as forgiving as say a Launcher 460....

[macmai]

You're hitting 260 yards with a 95 MPH swing....something's not right.

Agreed, which is why I stated earlier that I was surprised I could load a graf blue stiff like that. Also surprised why an NV stiff feels like a firm to me when the ratings say it should be perfect.

he forgot to mention either the wind was at his back, or that because he was at the range they dont set theyre distances properly because 1. ground is not perfectly flat. 2. they make ppl think its longer to help their egos.

1. It was at the course as stated in the original post, not the range.
2. Cross wind, not at the back, and WET conditions since it had just rained that morning.
3. 370 yard hole, 110 yd pitching wedge into the green. You do the math.

Funny...you'd think I said 300 or 325 yards or something the way you're making your assumptions. 260 isn't exactly Daly-esque or anything...but you know, WHATEVER.

[goceltics34]

I have been to a launch monitor a couple of times in the past month and my swing speed was clocked at 96 mph.

I recently bought the Cleveland Hibore with the NVS Regular shaft, 10.5 degrees. I was hitting the ball WAY too high and only getting around 240 yards in distance.

I then traded the club in for the Hibore with the NV Stiff shaft, 10.5 degrees. I gained about 15-20 yards on my drives. Now I drive the ball around 255-260 regularly.

The shaft made a huge difference.

People with 95-96 mph swing speeds CAN hit the ball 260 yards. It's not that long. Like the previous post stated, it's not like he said 300 yards.

[macmai]

OK, I can appreciate "Eric in NOVA" and Sandpiper6's questioning the swing speed, b/c that never added up for me either. Did a little Google'ing, and came accross this link. If you scroll down mid-way, you'll see a chart that seems to have a an array of distances for men and women, giving the short-mid-long distances. I know this isn't science here, but my iron distances are almost exactly what shows on the "long" side, give or take a few yards (i.e. 7i at 150, note that driver distance is about 260 too). So, that said, anyone have any clue what was up with the 95mph on the launch monitor? Did I look at the clubhead speed or something instead?

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/l/blclubdistance.htm

[Mizunogolfer]

If you're happy with you're accuracy and distance... who cares what the launch monitor states?

[bdgiant]

If you're happy with you're accuracy and distance... who cares what the launch monitor states?

Well said.

PS-I love my Graf Blue.

[macmai]

Mizunogolfer, bdgiant,

Very good point...not giving a rip anymore.

PS - I'm getting to love my Graf Blue too

[Decompiled]

I recently bought the Cleveland Hibore with the NVS Regular shaft, 10.5 degrees. I was hitting the ball WAY too high and only getting around 240 yards in distance.

I've said that jokingly in a previous post. I hit a 9.5 with NV65 Stiff and It goes a bit higher then I'd like. I though the 10.5's would launch straight up in the air.

[Sandpiper6]

If that says 150 7i is a long hitter.... lol... then i guess im a really long hitter (160), and my buddy is a SUPER long hitter (180)

PS- im gettin a graf blue and i love them too

[Eric in NOVA]

I don't think a 95 or 96 MPH swing speed is possible to hit the ball 260. The pros who hit it 280 are probably swinging around 110+....95 or 96 is about 220. This is based on my real life experience and articles I've read in the past. I've cranked out 260 yard drives but I can bet you it wasn't on a 95 MPH swing speed. I'm not saying you're lying, just saying there's something wrong with the math.

[goceltics34]

Believe me, I have nothing to gain by lying about how far I hit a golf ball. I don't know any of you. When I play at a course the gps system on the cart allows you to track your distance from the tee to your ball. During a round last week I was regularly hitting the ball 245-260. Besides the gps tracking, i figured out the distance remaining to the hole and it was pretty damn accurate. I know there are alot of people on this website that lie about their distances, but I am certainly not one of them.

Maybe it has something to do with my loft (10.5) and the Hibore's lower center of gravity which promotes a high laungh, low spin ball flight. My ball carries a long way.

If you don't believe me, it's cool. No sweat.

[divotman]

OK, I can appreciate "Eric in NOVA" and Sandpiper6's questioning the swing speed, b/c that never added up for me either. Did a little Google'ing, and came accross this link. If you scroll down mid-way, you'll see a chart that seems to have a an array of distances for men and women, giving the short-mid-long distances. I know this isn't science here, but my iron distances are almost exactly what shows on the "long" side, give or take a few yards (i.e. 7i at 150, note that driver distance is about 260 too). So, that said, anyone have any clue what was up with the 95mph on the launch monitor? Did I look at the clubhead speed or something instead?

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/l/blclubdistance.htm

there's also the golf club distance calculator:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/golfclubdistancecalce.html

it seems to be fairly accurate with my distances.

[golfnut86]

Believe me, I have nothing to gain by lying about how far I hit a golf ball. I don't know any of you. When I play at a course the gps system on the cart allows you to track your distance from the tee to your ball. During a round last week I was regularly hitting the ball 245-260. Besides the gps tracking, i figured out the distance remaining to the hole and it was pretty damn accurate. I know there are alot of people on this website that lie about their distances, but I am certainly not one of them.

Maybe it has something to do with my loft (10.5) and the Hibore's lower center of gravity which promotes a high laungh, low spin ball flight. My ball carries a long way.

If you don't believe me, it's cool. No sweat.

I'll second the 95 mph can produce 260 yard drives. I've been measured from a 95-105 on swing speed. On a launch monitor the 95 mph swings will give me about 250 yards of carry. Assuming i get 10 yards of roll 260 is very reasonable. My 105 swing speeds will produce drives that will carry to about 270 (minus 1 or 2 yards) (again what I get with roll I'm not entirely sure on a launch monitor). I've hit drives on the course as far as 280 yards, I've also never clocked more then 105 as a swing speed.

you have to remember that course conditions, balls, ball flight, barometer etc... will have a huge impact on driving distance

[Eric in NOVA]

look, maybe you guys swing harder than you think, but ain't no way 95 MPH produces 260 yard drives....on wet grass no less. If you were playing in Scotland...sure, but on wet grass? I'm just curious....when you say the lauch monitor had you at 95, what did it project your distance at? I can bet you it ain't 260.

[Eric in NOVA]

http://www.usga.org/news/2006/april/distance.html

here's a link....it shows to hit 260 yard drives, you need to swing over 100 mph

[goceltics34]

My swing speed was 96 mph and it had me carrying the ball at an average of 245. That was without any roll. With some roll, I am getting around 255 distance. My ball I use on the course is the Titleist NXT. Sure maybe on the course I could have been swing at 97 or 98 mph at times, but I don't know. I have my print out from the Cleveland fitting studio right in front of me with the numbers.

[ezra76]

http://www.usga.org/news/2006/april/distance.html

here's a link....it shows to hit 260 yard drives, you need to swing over 100 mph

A lot more than 100 if that's carry. Callaway had me at 111-113 and a carry distance of 250-260. Most of the swings registered at 255 or so. I also tested a Cobra F-Speed which I got up to 116mph. and it only went to 262 I believe.

[golfnut86]

My swing speed was 96 mph and it had me carrying the ball at an average of 245. That was without any roll. With some roll, I am getting around 255 distance. My ball I use on the course is the Titleist NXT. Sure maybe on the course I could have been swing at 97 or 98 mph at times, but I don't know. I have my print out from the Cleveland fitting studio right in front of me with the numbers.

Ditto, I've been in front of a launch monitor @ dicks, golfsmith, and my country club. My 96
mph swing consistently produced the 245-250 carry distance @ all three. I'll go to the pro shop that measures my swing speed and is out doors, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that it's going to be the same.

Look, I'm not trying to lie to impress anybody. It's not like I'm saying I hit 300. Maybe the launch monitors are wrong, and both me and goceltics34 are swinging faster then we think, but it'd be odd that three people, all in different regions, all having been in front of a launch monitor, who don't know each other then this messege board, all report having the same swing speed and carry distance.

I play w/ a great head shaft combo (r5 dual n 8.5 w/ graf blue). I play with distance balls off the tee. It's hot in the summer in Indiana, not usually too humid either.

Could anything else perhaps explain this?

[goceltics34]

I guess my setup with the Hibore 10.5 NV 65 stiff is a wonderful combo too. I won't be changing a thing any time soon. I think some of you need to get fitted for a better head/shaft combo if I can get 255-260 yards with my weak 96 mph swing speed and your speeds are over 115 mph and getting the same distance.

[ezra76]

I guess my setup with the Hibore 10.5 NV 65 stiff is a wonderful combo too. I won't be changing a thing any time soon. I think some of you need to get fitted for a better head/shaft combo if I can get 255-260 yards with my weak 96 mph swing speed and your speeds are over 115 mph and getting the same distance.

Either that or ask them to turn off the 30mph tailwind on the launch monitor. That's all carry on the launch monitor too. If you factor in roll and all the other variables I hit a 5w and a SW into the middle of the green on 382yds. the other day.

[goceltics34]

Either that or ask them to turn off the 30mph tailwind on the launch monitor.

Sure thing. I will do that. You know the Cleveland fitting studio has that darn tailwind going all the time to make customers feel better.

[Eric in NOVA]

I play w/ a great head shaft combo (r5 dual n 8.5 w/ graf blue). I play with distance balls off the tee. It's hot in the summer in Indiana, not usually too humid either.

GD reports Annika with a swing speed of 104 with a 8.5 degree driver only hits it 268.

[Eric in NOVA]

you're a tool. You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....sure your Cleveland studio and your club/shaft combo must be able to defy physics....newbie idiot!!

[Eric in NOVA]

I guess some of you have better equipment managers than Annika. And I guess Cleveland's studio must be more accurate than Callaway's.

[Eric in NOVA]

Ditto, I've been in front of a launch monitor @ dicks, golfsmith, and my country club. My 96
mph swing consistently produced the 245-250 carry distance @ all three. I'll go to the pro shop that measures my swing speed and is out doors, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that it's going to be the same.

so's USGA's science is voodoo? you too are a tool...read up on some science...your empirical evidence is B.S.

[Eric in NOVA]

when you say the lauch monitor had you at 95, what did it project your distance at? I can bet you it ain't 260.

answer this question. I doubt you tools can.

[goceltics34]

you're a tool. You don't have a clue as to what you're talking about....sure your Cleveland studio and your club/shaft combo must be able to defy physics....newbie idiot!!

Your a class act there, Eric in Nova. Never meant to get you all upset. I was just sharing my own golf experiences relevant to the post title.

[ezra76]

I guess my setup with the Hibore 10.5 NV 65 stiff is a wonderful combo too. I won't be changing a thing any time soon. I think some of you need to get fitted for a better head/shaft combo if I can get 255-260 yards with my weak 96 mph swing speed and your speeds are over 115 mph and getting the same distance.

You'd gain 8-10yds. with the correct flex. BTW Paul Pierce is a douchebag and that's coming from a Celtics fan.

[macmai]

Hey folks, this thread is getting a bit heated, and I never intended for that to happen. I just wanted to post some info in case someone found it useful. I do appreciate the responses, good, bad, or indifferent, to the thread.