Does a putt from the fringe count as a "putt"?

**AL3Indians** · 07-06-2006

When I play I like to keep track of my putts. If I putt from the fringe instead of chip, does that count as a putt? For example, I put from the fringe and then make the next putt. Is that a 1 or 2 putt?

**LyleG** · 07-06-2006

On tour, only putts that occur on the green count toward putting stats. I personally count putts from the fringe because imo, a putt is a putt is a putt.

**Gussie** · 07-06-2006

A "chip" from the fringe using a putter is not considered a putt when counting the number of putts. Only putts from the green area are counted. Most, if not all, handicap services that allow you to track a number of statistics inform you that this is the case.
As LyleG said, on tour only putts on the green count in official stats.

**AL3Indians** · 07-06-2006

Thanks for the help.

**rossg42** · 07-06-2006

I agree with Lyle. Technically, they don't count, but in your mind, if it takes 3 from there, then you know you just 3-putted.

**flight** · 07-06-2006

Not counted as a putt but does count towards your GIR.

**LyleG** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by flight

Not counted as a putt but does count towards your GIR.

HUH?

A GIR is getting on a par 3 in 1, a par 4 in 2, and a par 5 in 3, putting has nothing to do with it.

**rossg42** · 07-06-2006

Are you saying that the fringe counts as the green as far as GIR goes? So, if my tee shot on a par 3 ends up on the fringe, then I've hit the green in regulation?
I don't think that's accurate, but what do I know?

**Horseballs** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by flight

Not counted as a putt but does count towards your GIR.

This is not correct. If you miss the green, it's not a GIR.

**FM71** · 07-06-2006

The fringe is not the green. You can't mark your ball from the fringe. You can only mark your ball when on the green. It's just like when playing a closest to the pin contest, you don't count balls that land on the fringe because the fringe is not the green. The next thing you know people will be counting drives that have landed in the intermediate cut as a hit fairway. My cousin tries to argue that sh*t all the time.

**pingman360** · 07-06-2006

i think he means if tis a par 5 and his 2nd shot ended up short on the fringe he can putt it onto the green as a GIR... i think thats what he means and i dont think i made any sense at all

**fred3** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by LyleG

On tour, only putts that occur on the green count toward putting stats. I personally count putts from the fringe because imo, a putt is a putt is a putt.

when a person uses a driver from off the green it's not a chip, but a drive? Doesn't quite make sense to me. When a putter is being used off of the "putting surface" it is being used, in a creative way, as a chipping club. Just like when you use a 5 metal from the long fringe around the green in chipping it on the green. The 5 metal is being used creatively as a chipping club.

You're more than welcome to count your chips as putts, but your putts and chips per round won't be correct.

**LyleG** · 07-06-2006

OK fred, unless you are trying to convince me that you are a total moron, I see no other reason for you to post what you did.
What I was saying was if I am 2 inches off the green and putt, in my personal stats, I count it as a putt, only because I feel it better represents a true putting average than it does by counting it as a chip. These stats count towards nothing, except to show me areas of weakness in my game. Maybe next time I will draw little pictures so it is easier for you to understand.
So go ahead and continue to be a moron, because you are doing a truly wonderful job at it.

**rossg42** · 07-06-2006

I agree, that's what I said earlier. If it takes 3 to get down from the fringe, then in my mind it's a 3-putt.

**LyleG** · 07-06-2006

I still dont count it as a GIR however.

**golfaholic** · 07-06-2006

All this confusion about chips,drives,fairways, and GIR's could have been avoided by someone simply saying..'No'.

**pingman360** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by golfaholic

All this confusion about chips,drives,fairways, and GIR's could have been avoided by someone simply saying..'No'.

but this is more fun ;)

**rossg42** · 07-06-2006

If I duck hook it onto the adjacent fairway is that considered a fairway hit?

**LyleG** · 07-06-2006

For the sake of simplicity - NO

**rossg42** · 07-06-2006

Pingman is right, that's no fun. I think fairways are overrated anyway

**bdgiant** · 07-06-2006

Just put it in the hole and get over it.

**whitesox350z** · 07-06-2006

wel, i started counting putts this year and i was wondering the same thing
i've been counting putts from the fringe (and even the rough

) and im not going to change that because then if i do ill have like 5 less putts and be like HOLEY ****

**miket_81** · 07-06-2006

What if i hole out from the fairway and is doesn't touch the green is that a GIR?

How about if I hit the fairway of a lond par 3? lol! alot of people try to pull that crap! hehe

**whitesox350z** · 07-06-2006

yeah, that counts as a GIR and 0 putts
i count those long par 3's as fairways hit

but i haven't played at any unreachable par threes in over 2 months

**horstmc** · 07-06-2006

It is interesting that one can miss a green in regulation, two putt, and still make par.

**AL3Indians** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by whitesox350z

wel, i started counting putts this year and i was wondering the same thing
i've been counting putts from the fringe (and even the rough

) and im not going to change that because then if i do ill have like 5 less putts and be like HOLEY ****

Putt from the rough...it sounds like you have the same chipping problems I have.

**neverman** · 07-06-2006

Originally Posted by whitesox350z

wel, i started counting putts this year and i was wondering the same thing
i've been counting putts from the fringe (and even the rough

) and im not going to change that because then if i do ill have like 5 less putts and be like HOLEY ****

Just change now and it will all work out over time. Sure it may feel like a putt but it isn't and it only matters for two reasons. One of which is for "self", that's the unimportant one as you should know where you're weak. The second reason is far more valid and that's for comparison. If someone asks you how many putts it took you in a round it's important to be consistent. If everyone is on the same page it's all good. Putts are from the green only.

Consequently, no one has brought up the oddly shaped green where one might be forced to chip from the putting surface (no I wouldn't do this unless I was a Pro) to get close to the pin (believe I've seen John Daly do this before).... Does that count as a putt? I think it does for stats.

What about the Baffoon that putts it off the green (possibly into a water hazard), when do the putts start/stop counting? Imagine 2 putts to get off the green, one chip to get on and another 2 putt if you will. I'd count that as a 5 putt in my head but I think statistically it would be a 4 putt...

Ouch, my head hurts.

**fred3** · 07-07-2006

Owww. The "total moron" card. Come on. I'm fairly certain I totally reframed from calling you a woosiemanwhothinkshispersonalstatsmeansquatwhenitc omestoscoring. This ain't brain surgery. It's a putt if it's on the green. Not the fringe. No where did I say you couldn't count it as such, but in doing so (since the whole golfing world eg: usga, pga, royal and ancient, etc, etc, etc. doesn't do it "your way") your stats compared to the rest of the thinking, good sense world don't mean squat. So by all means count them just don't compare them to anyone elses putts/per round in the normal golfing universe. They don't compute.

Yours sincerely,
Fred the Moron

**flight** · 07-07-2006

Par 5 - on the fringe in 2 - hit it in the hole with your putter - ( on the green in regulation - 0 putt) I like the way that reads! That's what we aim for?

**Horseballs** · 07-07-2006

This has been beaten to death, but I'll chime in.
If I was a pro or into comparing stats with other players, a putt can only occur on the green.
Personally, I count every putt from off the green where there is no question as to whether I would putt it. If I putt through eight feet of fringe and using a putter isn't a given, I'll count that as an up and down attempt.
As others have said, it helps me understand how I'm truly perform in my short game.

**neverman** · 07-07-2006

That's pretty close to how I would state my position as well HB... perfect chime.

**rossg42** · 07-11-2006

On the tour that I play on we keep our stats, such as GIR, Fairways Hit, etc. One woman had a huge fairways hit %. Something like 80%. We found out that she was counting tee shots that "Hit" the fairway, but didn't necessarily stay in the fairway. It doesn't really mean anything, but is still comical.

**dorkman53** · 07-11-2006

Yes, it's interesting the mental gymnastics some people might use to "massage the numbers". By synthesizing some of the "creative accounting" proposed in this thread, one could hit the fairway on my drive on a par 4, hit the fringe of the green with shot #2, chip with the putter from the fringe, then take two more strokes putting for a bogey 5. However, they could still pride themselves in: a fairway hit, a "green in regulation" (the fringe), and a "2 putt", while still making a bogey. Whoopie! Perfect statistics for the hole, yet I still made a bogey. Ain't self-deception great?!

**rossg42** · 07-11-2006

yep, I used to give myself putts all the time when it didn't mean anything, but now playing in tournaments every week where you have to putt out everything, you'd be surprised how many "gimmes" are missed out there. One guy I played with on Sunday missed 3 or 4 gimmes. Of course, they all counted

**blue3715** · 07-12-2006

A putt is only a putt if it's on the green. A putt from the fringe is not a put...

Now according to the PGA, if you are on the green, and putt it off the green, and the putt it back on, and then put it in...is that 2 or 3 putts. It's 3! Once you putt from the green, all future putts count as putts.