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  1. #1
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    Ben Hogan - The Golf Swing

    Anyone watch this video? If so, what are your thoughts on it... I just watched it and I rather liked it. I thought they spent a bit too much time talking about Ben that coudl have been spent on the mechanics, but i guess it was supposed to be a bit of a tribute and history lesson along with a golf lesson... My first real sit down time with a video and trying to put it together.. Gotta say golf swings can be a lot more complicated than I would have thought hah

    Next im watching hte Butch Harmon Ultimate Golf dvd
    [FONT="Fixedsys"]-------------------------------------
    |...........Current Clubs...........|
    -------------------------------------
    |Driver: Mizuno MP-001 Adilda 65-S..|
    |Putter: Cheapo Piece of Crap.......|
    |Woods: Bazooka HL 13* Strong 3.....|
    |Hybrid: Mitsushiba 21*.............|
    |Irons: Mizuno MP-60................|
    |Wedges: PW: Mizuno MP-60...........|
    |........LW: Cleveland 588 60-03....|
    |Shoes: Adidas Z-Traxion............|
    -------------------------------------
    [/FONT]

  2. #2
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    Hogan

    I don't know if I saw the same video you did --but I remember seeing a video of Hogan and thinking how aggressive he was with the hips.He wasn't big,but could hit it far.

  3. #3
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    I haven't seen the DVD you're talking about, but I bought the VHS release of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf featuring Hogan vs. Sam Snead. Honestly, it fascinates me about Hogan's swing in that it looks so short yet is so strong and consistent. IIRC, Hogan was only 5'7" or so.

    Interestingly, Snead doesn't seem much taller (definitely bigger in the arms and chest, though) than Hogan, but his swing was so much more fluid and he hit it farther most of the time than Hogan.

    It was neat to see each man's game (albeit in the twilights of their careers).
    [FONT="Book Antiqua"]"Why are you in such a rush to hit the ball? It's not going anywhere." --My teacher, when I am too fast in my downswing.

    "Golf is like an 18-year-old girl with big boobs. You know it's wrong but you can't keep away from her." --Val Doonican

    "The first time I played the Masters, I was so nervous I drank a bottle of rum before I teed off. I shot the happiest 83 of my life." --Chi Chi Rodriguez[/FONT]

  4. #4
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    I tried following the mechanics of the video today and went and hit a big bucket. I'm really shocked the results in my drives after only watching one video and trying to put it to use. I started hitting the ball much more solidly and the shots i took that sliced were more of a fade. Out of the whole large bucket i thinki had 2-3 true slices 3-4 fades and about 2 nasty hooks. The rest were dead straight and a good number of them made it ot the fence. Its been a few months since ive connected this solidly and with this consistancy. A few were off target a bit but dead straight still. Id rather hit it dead straight to the right with no slice than straight with a nasty slice :P I believe that was more a product of where I put the ball in my stance than it was how I hit, however. I found the more i moved the ball forward in my stance the more I hit the ball to the left, which is nice to know b/c at the course I play a good number of the pins are about 15 yards off center to the left...

    Only problem the video didnt help me out with is my longer irons. I seem to hit my 7 iron as far as I hit my 5 iron as far as I hit my 3 iron :P They all landed about the same place with different lofts. Of course the 7 had a much higher loft than the 3, but its a little discerning that I couldn't really get any extra distance... I guess finishing up with the driver is all I have left before I gotta start to worry about my longer iron play...
    [FONT="Fixedsys"]-------------------------------------
    |...........Current Clubs...........|
    -------------------------------------
    |Driver: Mizuno MP-001 Adilda 65-S..|
    |Putter: Cheapo Piece of Crap.......|
    |Woods: Bazooka HL 13* Strong 3.....|
    |Hybrid: Mitsushiba 21*.............|
    |Irons: Mizuno MP-60................|
    |Wedges: PW: Mizuno MP-60...........|
    |........LW: Cleveland 588 60-03....|
    |Shoes: Adidas Z-Traxion............|
    -------------------------------------
    [/FONT]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiva
    I tried following the mechanics of the video today and went and hit a big bucket. I'm really shocked the results in my drives after only watching one video and trying to put it to use. I started hitting the ball much more solidly and the shots i took that sliced were more of a fade. Out of the whole large bucket i thinki had 2-3 true slices 3-4 fades and about 2 nasty hooks. The rest were dead straight and a good number of them made it ot the fence. Its been a few months since ive connected this solidly and with this consistancy. A few were off target a bit but dead straight still. Id rather hit it dead straight to the right with no slice than straight with a nasty slice :P I believe that was more a product of where I put the ball in my stance than it was how I hit, however. I found the more i moved the ball forward in my stance the more I hit the ball to the left, which is nice to know b/c at the course I play a good number of the pins are about 15 yards off center to the left...

    Only problem the video didnt help me out with is my longer irons. I seem to hit my 7 iron as far as I hit my 5 iron as far as I hit my 3 iron :P They all landed about the same place with different lofts. Of course the 7 had a much higher loft than the 3, but its a little discerning that I couldn't really get any extra distance... I guess finishing up with the driver is all I have left before I gotta start to worry about my longer iron play...
    For those of us who haven't seen the video, any hints on what the video talked about/what tips Hogan gave?

  6. #6
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    Actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guru2
    I don't know if I saw the same video you did --but I remember seeing a video of Hogan and thinking how aggressive he was with the hips.He wasn't big,but could hit it far.
    Hogan was not very aggressive with the hip rotation. He was more aggressive in the upper body rotation because of the greater degree to catch up with the hips at impact. His hip only had limited turn, while his torso was coiling back at a greater degree.

    The end result was that the enitre torso -- which includes upper body and hips -- was rotating in unison.

    For you one-planer and Jim Hardy fans, see here: http://www.geocities.com/sixbeeonedee/hoganHit.mpg

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by honorerdieu
    Hogan was not very aggressive with the hip rotation. He was more aggressive in the upper body rotation because of the greater degree to catch up with the hips at impact. His hip only had limited turn, while his torso was coiling back at a greater degree.

    The end result was that the enitre torso -- which includes upper body and hips -- was rotating in unison.

    For you one-planer and Jim Hardy fans, see here: http://www.geocities.com/sixbeeonedee/hoganHit.mpg
    I suppose its what you mean by 'aggressive'.Hogan ha da lateral move,and then a big drive with the hips.He insisted it was vital to use the lower body forst,to drag the upper body down,shoulders,arms then hands in that order,it is vital to power according to him,so the lower half in Hogans mechanics is a vital part of the game.By comparison,few modern players use as mush lower half movement as he did,Vijay is a rare exception.So I would say it was an agressive move compared to the modern player

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macgregor
    I suppose its what you mean by 'aggressive'.Hogan ha da lateral move,and then a big drive with the hips.He insisted it was vital to use the lower body forst,to drag the upper body down,shoulders,arms then hands in that order,it is vital to power according to him,so the lower half in Hogans mechanics is a vital part of the game.By comparison,few modern players use as mush lower half movement as he did,Vijay is a rare exception.So I would say it was an agressive move compared to the modern player
    If he did say it was insisted but it's not what he actually did. Hogan may be aggressive with the rotation of the hips, but I can assure you that he was even more aggressive with the upper body rotation.

    Yes, Hogan "ha da" lateral move to hit the ball, but the rotation had much more to do with it in order to deliver the clubface to the ball.

    Hogan was not a big hitter among his peers.

  9. #9
    Hogan was a huge hitter in his time,yearly he entered the long driving contest they used to hold and he came second behind one particulr guy.As a kid,admittedly he was short,so he developed a low draw and started out driving everyone.He was rarely out driven as a pro and when he was,it was because he was playing to a particular part of the fairway.He curtailed his distance later in his career for a controlled fade,when he neede dit he was long.

    I agree his upper body swung hard,but you didn't didn't originaly compare the two,you simply said he didn't have an agressive move down below.As I said,its all a matter of what you mean by agressive.If you mean fast,then no,if you mean imporatnce,then yes,it was agressive,he started his downswing with a lateral move then hard turn of the hips,but if you dont mind me saying so,its obvious the upper half will turn faster,so its an invalid comparison.But compare his hips to other players,then his move was agressive in comparison.

    At 5'8' he could generate huge power.Snead has often said he hated playing with Hogan,he hit the ball so hard you had to really concentrate on your own rythym or he put you off.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macgregor
    Hogan was a huge hitter in his time,yearly he entered the long driving contest they used to hold and he came second behind one particulr guy.As a kid,admittedly he was short,so he developed a low draw and started out driving everyone.He was rarely out driven as a pro and when he was,it was because he was playing to a particular part of the fairway.He curtailed his distance later in his career for a controlled fade,when he neede dit he was long.

    I agree his upper body swung hard,but you didn't didn't originaly compare the two,you simply said he didn't have an agressive move down below.As I said,its all a matter of what you mean by agressive.If you mean fast,then no,if you mean imporatnce,then yes,it was agressive,he started his downswing with a lateral move then hard turn of the hips,but if you dont mind me saying so,its obvious the upper half will turn faster,so its an invalid comparison.But compare his hips to other players,then his move was agressive in comparison.

    At 5'8' he could generate huge power.Snead has often said he hated playing with Hogan,he hit the ball so hard you had to really concentrate on your own rythym or he put you off.
    I never said he wasn't aggressive with his hip turn.

    Sorry, you are still wrong about the Hogan swing. Looking at old photos and videos of Hogan's swing won't tell you much. Hogan's hip was horiztonal to the ground, while his bent over posture made his spine angle at least 30 degrees less of vertical. If Hogan was standing straight up and led it with his hips, your theory might have been proven right.

    But hip is the center of the bent angle between the lower and upper body and they all turn independently on a different axis. Had Hogan led with his hips, his spine angle would've been lost due to tilting and getting the club stuck behind a-la Tiger Woods.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mward2002
    For those of us who haven't seen the video, any hints on what the video talked about/what tips Hogan gave?
    It was all very basic starting with a lot of information on the grip and where the pressure should be, rotation of the lower body on the backswing and then the shoulders with the arms connected in a triangle, never leading or trailing, a slightly supinated wrist at around contact, foot position and alignment (he liked to open his stance on shorter irons and close it on longer irons). talked about the backswing being a wider swing than the downswing, which should be inside.. and a lot of time was spent discussing the 'hogan plane of glass' which i could really only show you without explaining it....

    overall it was pretty interesting... helped me a lot with the grip showing that you really put all the pressure with ur right hand on your two middle fingers, and showing I shouldn't swing so hard with my arms but rather my shoulders...
    [FONT="Fixedsys"]-------------------------------------
    |...........Current Clubs...........|
    -------------------------------------
    |Driver: Mizuno MP-001 Adilda 65-S..|
    |Putter: Cheapo Piece of Crap.......|
    |Woods: Bazooka HL 13* Strong 3.....|
    |Hybrid: Mitsushiba 21*.............|
    |Irons: Mizuno MP-60................|
    |Wedges: PW: Mizuno MP-60...........|
    |........LW: Cleveland 588 60-03....|
    |Shoes: Adidas Z-Traxion............|
    -------------------------------------
    [/FONT]

  12. #12
    Hmmm,well we seem to disagree,which is what a forum is all about I suppose,heated debate.I have several Hogan vids,the infamous vid taken on the lawn of his friends house facing the atlantic,Jim Macleans dvd where he constructs his swing,Leadbetters effort,Shell World Of Golf,Hogan The Swing and various little ditties off the web,plus all the books of course,Sampson,Dobson,The Mystique,Demarets and of course,both his instruction books.But I suppose we are both entitled to interpret his instruction and swing in our own way,I agree there are definate issues with the pictures in the Fundamentals,and in some ways what he said and did were two different things (right elbow was never as glued to his right side as he said it was)

    But he did have a definite lateral move to start the downswing,one of my fave Hogan dvds has Hogan demonstrating this move himself.We probably must forget about the word agressive,its to subjective and pointless debating it.What is important is Hogan used his lower half to drag his top half down,its where he generated a lot of power from.He then hit very hard with the torso,I agree with you entirely in that regard,he often said he felt he could have 3 right hands because he could hit it harder.

  13. #13
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    Mac - This was the Maclean video where he constructs his swing...
    [FONT="Fixedsys"]-------------------------------------
    |...........Current Clubs...........|
    -------------------------------------
    |Driver: Mizuno MP-001 Adilda 65-S..|
    |Putter: Cheapo Piece of Crap.......|
    |Woods: Bazooka HL 13* Strong 3.....|
    |Hybrid: Mitsushiba 21*.............|
    |Irons: Mizuno MP-60................|
    |Wedges: PW: Mizuno MP-60...........|
    |........LW: Cleveland 588 60-03....|
    |Shoes: Adidas Z-Traxion............|
    -------------------------------------
    [/FONT]

  14. #14
    In my humble opinion...one can either get absorbed in golf analysis and instruction...read it casually...or ignore it.

    Case in point? Bobby Clampett and his "The Golfing Machine" book.

    Paralyzation by overanalyzation. After that book he went straight to the announcers' booth.

    I like Penick's "Little Red Book" and read it. Mostly because I like Crenshaw.

    Frankly, any technical or analytical questions I won't even read in a mag or on the web -- or click on the topic. But that's just me.

  15. #15
    Yes,thats just you,its such a personal game that whatever works for you s what is important.I like reading books and I have certainly gained a lot from studying Hogans books,knowing what and how the swing works has helped me immeasurably on the range.

  16. #16
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    Hogan is the Man !

    The more you know about the golf swing, the more you appreciate his swing's perfection.

    He was a "mechanic" and his books displayed this. He ALSO didnt tell everything he does in his books either, he left that for you to figure out. He was still playing competitive golf when he wrote power golf, so he was reluctant to tell it all.

    I have heard, that he told Val, his wife, during the 2 year period of writing the "Fundamentals of Golf" book, that he didnt think it was right for him to reveal all he learned from a lifetime of playing, practicing and winning, to just anybody because they spent 5 bucks on his book. He said it wasnt fair to the game of golf.

    He DID reveal it all, whether he intentionally camoflaged it so a reader would have to REALLY decipher the hidden meanings of his statements or he actually did reveal them but his method of teaching was so complex that very, very, very few ever really understood it will be one of lifes mysteries. After studying the man for several years, I would tend to think he did tell them but made it all but impossible for the casual average guy to understand it, but if one REALLY wanted to know his secret and he spent the time necessary to decipher, formulate by trial and error, then he would see his way.

    Hogan was a literal genius. I mean literally, his IQ, was sky high. Never tested for it, but a pshycologist made that assumption while working along side him for a few months during the early years as a club pro in Palm Springs.

    His famous quote was this: "Golf cannot be taught, it can only be learned" No truer words have ever been spoken.

  17. #17
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    so basically, you are saying it is Da Golf Code.

  18. #18
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    Hogan wasnt' big... but he used the engine (i.e. the legs)

    He employed the "trigger" and shot out of the gate like a grayhound after the rabbit.

    Plus... he hit balls at the range in volumn's which would make the mere mortal shirk at the overall hours spent there.

    His gravestone shoudl have read "Hogan practiced" ... i.e. he rehearsed, drilled.. etc....

    That's what grooved his style... was that complete and total dedication and perseverance towards practice/rehearsal on the range. Which in turned leveraged his tourney play....

    No doubt!
    Bertha 2004 Titanium
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    (...the jury is still out on the lob)

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    Golf is a game where the ball lies poorly, and the players well. --anon.

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