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  1. #1
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    Closed face driver versus square face

    at address???? Was looking at the Callaway X460 for kicks and saw that the reg 460 was 2* closed. The tour was square face. My driver now (Callaway) is square at address.

    Why would they close it 2*? Thinking it might be to eliminate slice? Not sure what a closed face promotes in the swing so I was just looking for some philosophies.

  2. #2
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    You go it. They close it to help people get the face square at impact, and help fight a slice.

    Most tour drivers (like yours) are open face by .5-1º. Vijay plays a driver that's something like..5º open(around there) It's insane.
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

  3. #3
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    Man I hate closed club faces. I never feel comfortable at address and end up just opening them up to feel like I am aimed properly. My long iron play got much better when I switched to square faced irons. I plan on switching to an "open" faced driver this year. I really like the TM superquad, but they really overcharge for that open faced TP version.

  4. #4
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    I can't hit closed face drivers. They just look weird at set up and I don't have any confidence.
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Purist
    I never feel comfortable at address and end up just opening them up to feel like I am aimed properly. I really like the TM superquad, but they really overcharge for that open faced TP version.
    I open them up too. It's no big deal since I don't sole the driver. It's the offset that I have a problem with.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    I open them up too. It's no big deal since I don't sole the driver. It's the offset that I have a problem with.
    Tiger, most pros and almost all of the greats aligned with open clubfaces on all clubs, according to Harmon and Kostis.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    Tiger, most pros and almost all of the greats aligned with open clubfaces on all clubs, according to Harmon and Kostis.
    In the future when you use that fact, try to include my name in there.
    "All the greats, you know Tiger, Horseballs, etc." Doesn't that sound better?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    In the future when you use that fact, try to include my name in there.
    "All the greats, you know Tiger, Horseballs, etc." Doesn't that sound better?
    I thought I did when I referred to all the greats.

  9. #9
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    closed faced and offset... dorkman and lyle's bag have more than enough of these two things to keep us form slicing...

    all of these gimmicky things are to help mask swing flaws... dorkman will proclaim that his 2* closed hybrid is lowering his score. the only real thing lowered is his ability to properly swing a golf club.

    you should at all cost avoid anti slice crap... so cast pos shovels are in the garbage...

    they say that better players fear losing the ball left as opposed to right and i agree with that. i hit a handful of slices ( 3-8 yards of left to right gayness ) a year. but i definitely fear the left ball...

    Omen
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    they say that better players fear losing the ball left as opposed to right and i agree with that. i hit a handful of slices ( 3-8 yards of left to right gayness ) a year. but i definitely fear the left ball...

    Omen
    Correction: Better players learn to hit a fade since they despise the hook.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseballs
    Correction: Better players learn to hit a fade since they despise the hook.

    Bingo. The problem with a hook is that it runs like a son of a beatch when it hits the ground. You know the old saying "you can talk to a fade, but a hook wont listen".

  12. #12
    A closed face is NOT a gimmick, internal draw weighting may be, but a closed face and offset is perfectly good sense for many golfers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macgregor
    A closed face is NOT a gimmick, internal draw weighting may be, but a closed face and offset is perfectly good sense for many golfers.
    you must be new... you have to be well over 500 posts to contradict anything i say.

    i dont think a 5 yard draw is anyharder to control than a 5 yard fade... the only difference is about 20 yards total distance....

    you can argue that a draw shot into a green wont hold but that's total bs...

    the draw is the better players miss... the fade is one step above the shank...
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  14. #14
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    God Omen. You have become the most useless troll on this forum. Neither funny, witty or intelligent.

  15. #15
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    what are you talking about... how are you for the trolling award

    screaming that putter loft cant be adjusted and that the fade is the best shot...


    Omen
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  16. #16
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    About 50% of putters cant be adjusted, and about 80% of pro's play a stock fade.

    Thanks for making my point.

  17. #17
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    anything not a blade style is not a putter...

    mallets and belly putters make one question come to mind... what other sports do you cheat at?

    when i say putter i refer to blade style only...they can all be adjusted

    do you bowl with the rails up? it's more forgiving that away.

    and how the hell do you figure 80% of pros play a fade? did you just think 80 sounded good... it wasnt 78 or 83 but a perfect 80%...

    you are so full of SH.IT Lyle. the difference between us is that i dont actually believe all the stuff i post on here... you do.

    You are so pathetic... trying to sound so high and mighty just because you built two sets of lynx cavity back irons for some duffer friends...

    should i call you fred3 now or wait until you log in under that screen name?

    Omen
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  18. #18
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    Great stuff, guys. You are the perfect enemies.
    fred3 antagonizer
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  19. #19
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    We are looking at the main event, aren't we.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
    We are looking at the main event, aren't we.
    Yes. The Doctor of Discs and I just can't pull it off.
    fred3 antagonizer
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  21. #21
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    I wasnt going to go this far but when he said i was useless i felt the need to let him feel the back of my hand...

    He needs to know his role and shut his mouth.

    I'm not one of the here today gone tommorrow members... I'm a staple of GR and he will recognize or I will try to do to him what LC3 has done to so many others...

    Omen... GRAIN FLOW FORGED....
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  22. #22
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    Please, at least get some new material. This stopped being remotely funny about 2 years ago. Honestly, please, new material, ok.

  23. #23
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    i've only been a member since oct. 06: 2 years ago????

    someone else already on here using my stuff?

    dude it's a golf forum; what is new and innovative in the golf world... nothing.

    we are still talking about the same old shiot we were 5 years ago and it's gonna be the same stuff we talk about 5 years from now.

    let's be a little honest with ourselves..

    you mean to tell me that you dont respect people who play blades when they could easily slap some tadmoore fs91's in the bag and shave 5 strokes... i mean to realize that there are still a few who do still try to play blades because it demands more from the swing?

    sure tour players dont play them and why? a mishit could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    same thing with long irons... cant you see how some of us can derive a little pride in the fact that we can still hit them.

    YOU will never be good enough to be on tour so why are you trying to hide your misses?

    I take great pride in the fact that i can hit a clevland ta1 2 iron from damn near any lie. I dont think blades are any harder to hit than most " players " cavities: I also believe that you believe as much is true

    which leads me to question why the blades talk bothers you. COULD IT BE THAT YOU ARE EMASCULTAED... do you hate the fact that you dont have the spine to play them and then when you hit a bad shot admit that you made a bad swing. do you need the forgiveness to hide your own fears of failing?

    what do you stand to gain by shooting a few strokes better... you're a club maker in the middle of nowhere? nike's not calling you are they?

    if it bothers you that i can hit a blade and you cant then maybe you should work on your swing and not belittle me just because i'm not afraid to make myself shoot a good score. I dont need clubs that will do it for me... My 69 was mine alone, Nothing in my bag allowed me to loose focus and get away with it, and when i say i shot 69 i dont mean the extra forgiveness in my 5 iron ( longest shiny club i have ) helped get the ball up on that slightly fat shot on the 7th: if not for that i would have dunked it in the drink...

    I dont get scared standing with a long iron and having to hit it over water... if you do, admit it, but dont stand there and yell at me because i called you out for what you are: AN INFERIOR BALLSTRIKER.

    I dont know how to say this in any plainer english: if you aren't on tour and you have offset and a cavity you are cheating. if you have a hybrid you are cheating. if your putter head is as thick as your driver you are cheating.

    what is the point of playing a game if you dont play it the way it was intended to be played.

    I personally think the pros should all have to play MB's. CAVITY backs are the same as steroids, cheating. If they are that good they wouldnt need forgivness... do you think it's a coincidence that the guys in history who have dominated the game the most have all played blades? that the guys who have the most majors, all played blades.

    I dont.. they dominate because they do play blades and that requires them to practice and that makes their ball striking superior.

    that's why i play blades, because i want to be better, not look better, be better at golf...

    so the next time you put in your 74 or 75 that you shot with that hybrid think to yourself, i'm not really this good because i couldnt have done it without the added forgiveness of the hybrid...

    so sad isnt it

    Omen, playing TRADITIONAL golf

    I will come up with new material when you quit jumping around here saying that every one on here that IS MAN ENOUGH to put blades in the bag is stupid and egotistical; have you ever considered that they're just the MEN on this forum..

    let me know if you get a set.
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    closed faced and offset... dorkman and lyle's bag have more than enough of these two things to keep us form slicing...

    all of these gimmicky things are to help mask swing flaws... dorkman will proclaim that his 2* closed hybrid is lowering his score. the only real thing lowered is his ability to properly swing a golf club.

    you should at all cost avoid anti slice crap... so cast pos shovels are in the garbage...

    they say that better players fear losing the ball left as opposed to right and i agree with that. i hit a handful of slices ( 3-8 yards of left to right gayness ) a year. but i definitely fear the left ball...

    Omen
    Your ignorance is showing in spades. I have NO closed face driver. I won't have any driver, fairway wood, or hybrid with a closed face or offset. I won't have irons with any significant offset. I won't play with heel weighted clubs, either. I am a straight hitter, and don't need a crutch to hit the ball straight. Again, you don't worry about letting the facts get in the way of your statements which put your stupidity on display......
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorkman53
    Your ignorance is showing in spades. I have NO closed face driver. I won't have any driver, fairway wood, or hybrid with a closed face. I won't have irons with any significant offset. I won't play with heel weighted clubs, either. I am a straight hitter, and don't need a crutch to hit the ball straight. Again, you don't worry about letting the facts get in the way of your statements which put your stupidity on display......

    dude you play a hybrid......

    .. what other games do you cheat at?

    i knew you were a lyle but i didnt realize you would bite so easily...

    I was finally wrong about something on here

    I'm still correct in saying that if you dont play a blade you are a lesser man.

    Omen... have ever considered going through puberty
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    dude you play a hybrid......

    .. what other games do you cheat at?

    i knew you were a lyle but i didnt realize you would bite so easily...

    I was finally wrong about something on here

    I'm still correct in saying that if you dont play a blade you are a lesser man.

    Omen... have ever considered going through puberty
    Reading your posts is about as interesting as listening to a one string banjo that plays one tune, again, again, again, again, again, ad infinitum, ad nauseum......
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  27. #27
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    Although I agree wit some of the things omen says (just for the sake of flaming but hey), but comments about the draw are out of line. The most impressive shot you will ever see is a power fade from blade long iron. The fade is actually a manlier flight because of the extra height and bite you get and because it's all carry, so needs more muscle to get the same distance than a little low hooky draw that runs as far as it flies. I personally try to hit it straight but if I had time to practice I'd groove a fade.

    But the stuff he says about mizunos and blades is irrefutable
    The views expressed by Not a Hacker are not meant to be understood by you primitive screw heads. Don't take it personally, just sit back and enjoy the writings of your better.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    you must be new... you have to be well over 500 posts to contradict anything i say.

    i dont think a 5 yard draw is anyharder to control than a 5 yard fade... the only difference is about 20 yards total distance....

    you can argue that a draw shot into a green wont hold but that's total bs...

    the draw is the better players miss... the fade is one step above the shank...
    Where have I said any of that? You have just argued with yourself for nothing, you made several arguements none of which relate to one thing I posted.

    A closed face is perfectly fine for a driver, along with offset, it will help many golfers, go read Wishon and stop misquoting, no in fact, stop totally inventing arguements. I've made a simple statement based on fact, go ask Tom Wishon.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macgregor
    Where have I said any of that? You have just argued with yourself for nothing, you made several arguements none of which relate to one thing I posted.

    A closed face is perfectly fine for a driver, along with offset, it will help many golfers, go read Wishon and stop misquoting, no in fact, stop totally inventing arguements. I've made a simple statement based on fact, go ask Tom Wishon.
    Relax......he is simply suffering from the delusion that he is informed, witty, and entertaining, despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.......
    Seldom right, never in doubt......

  30. #30
    It seems if he hasn't got an arguement he invents one

  31. #31
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    Only someone who is truly delusional would spend 45 minutes typing out a 500 word response to a thread this stupid. Omen, you really have crossed the line into idiocy. Its too bad really. I feel sorry for your boy who one day might stumble upon this site and see what total jerk off his old man was.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a hacker
    Although I agree wit some of the things omen says (just for the sake of flaming but hey), but comments about the draw are out of line. The most impressive shot you will ever see is a power fade from blade long iron. The fade is actually a manlier flight because of the extra height and bite you get and because it's all carry, so needs more muscle to get the same distance than a little low hooky draw that runs as far as it flies. I personally try to hit it straight but if I had time to practice I'd groove a fade.

    But the stuff he says about mizunos and blades is irrefutable
    So WTF are these grave diggers doing in your bag:

    Description
    MX-20 provides the solid, soft feel of a forging and the wide sweet spot area of a deep cavity back.

    Extensive research by Mizuno engineers has led to the next step in game improvement forgings, the MX-20 irons, featuring Mizuno's Grain Flow Forging technology and a wider sweet spot area. The latest addition to Mizuno's line of forged irons, the MX-20TM features a unique dual T-Zoid® Power Bar that offers unparalleled forgiveness while maintaining the solid, soft feel that only comes from a Mizuno forged iron.

    Sorry NAH, you're my bro from down under, but I couldn't resist
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    i've only been a member since oct. 06: 2 years ago????

    someone else already on here using my stuff?

    dude it's a golf forum; what is new and innovative in the golf world... nothing.

    we are still talking about the same old shiot we were 5 years ago and it's gonna be the same stuff we talk about 5 years from now.

    let's be a little honest with ourselves..

    you mean to tell me that you dont respect people who play blades when they could easily slap some tadmoore fs91's in the bag and shave 5 strokes... i mean to realize that there are still a few who do still try to play blades because it demands more from the swing?

    sure tour players dont play them and why? a mishit could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    same thing with long irons... cant you see how some of us can derive a little pride in the fact that we can still hit them.

    YOU will never be good enough to be on tour so why are you trying to hide your misses?

    I take great pride in the fact that i can hit a clevland ta1 2 iron from damn near any lie. I dont think blades are any harder to hit than most " players " cavities: I also believe that you believe as much is true

    which leads me to question why the blades talk bothers you. COULD IT BE THAT YOU ARE EMASCULTAED... do you hate the fact that you dont have the spine to play them and then when you hit a bad shot admit that you made a bad swing. do you need the forgiveness to hide your own fears of failing?

    what do you stand to gain by shooting a few strokes better... you're a club maker in the middle of nowhere? nike's not calling you are they?

    if it bothers you that i can hit a blade and you cant then maybe you should work on your swing and not belittle me just because i'm not afraid to make myself shoot a good score. I dont need clubs that will do it for me... My 69 was mine alone, Nothing in my bag allowed me to loose focus and get away with it, and when i say i shot 69 i dont mean the extra forgiveness in my 5 iron ( longest shiny club i have ) helped get the ball up on that slightly fat shot on the 7th: if not for that i would have dunked it in the drink...

    I dont get scared standing with a long iron and having to hit it over water... if you do, admit it, but dont stand there and yell at me because i called you out for what you are: AN INFERIOR BALLSTRIKER.

    I dont know how to say this in any plainer english: if you aren't on tour and you have offset and a cavity you are cheating. if you have a hybrid you are cheating. if your putter head is as thick as your driver you are cheating.

    what is the point of playing a game if you dont play it the way it was intended to be played.

    I personally think the pros should all have to play MB's. CAVITY backs are the same as steroids, cheating. If they are that good they wouldnt need forgivness... do you think it's a coincidence that the guys in history who have dominated the game the most have all played blades? that the guys who have the most majors, all played blades.

    I dont.. they dominate because they do play blades and that requires them to practice and that makes their ball striking superior.

    that's why i play blades, because i want to be better, not look better, be better at golf...

    so the next time you put in your 74 or 75 that you shot with that hybrid think to yourself, i'm not really this good because i couldnt have done it without the added forgiveness of the hybrid...

    so sad isnt it

    Omen, playing TRADITIONAL golf

    I will come up with new material when you quit jumping around here saying that every one on here that IS MAN ENOUGH to put blades in the bag is stupid and egotistical; have you ever considered that they're just the MEN on this forum..

    let me know if you get a set.
    DAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM Omen that's some of your best work ever. That is some GRAIN FLOW posting at its finest.

    Actually, a skilled player will know how to work the ball both directions when needed. True, most players fight a slice and must learn to draw it, but the hole design and the shot ahead dictates a fade,draw, or straight shot.

    Omen, I compare you to Rush Limbaugh. I agree with you 98% of the time, but some things just have to be tweaked
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  34. #34
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    are you sure it was exactly 500 or is this like all of your numbers, picked off the top of your head?

    so you are agreeing that you are emasculated by my ability to play a more demanding club than you.

    how hard was that to say.

    bj... HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ... good to see you back

    anyone who has any sense at all knows that i dont really view the fade as a weak pansy shot... the fact that lyle plays one doesnt help out it's image though....

    i only promote the draw to excite the board. it works 98% of the time.

    now to continue in true omen fashion... the draw shot only runs when struck terribly... my draw shot will dig craters into the hardest of greens and the spin induced will leave tracks.

    I personally wish i was better at the old left to right... i can make it bend but cant seem to get it online... something that i am working on. the draw is just my go to shot. i can count on that bend and so on my off days i can keep it in play with that flight.

    Unlike Lyle my clubs wont come to me I will have to go to them. they will lend me no help with an inferior swing and so i must grove something excellent if i want to put the fade into play...

    I will learn how to hit the fade with the mizzy's soon enough... till then the draw is the superior shot shape

    lyle

    If the best retort you could muster after having the taste slapped out of your mouth, is that my son is going to find out that you think i'm a jerk off. well then you are nowhere near the same level as I, and thus i accept this pathetic dribble as your unconditional surrender.

    you should get the boxer hybrid iron set, they will go lovely with your MANGINA...

    Omen
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen2
    are you sure it was exactly 500 or is this like all of your numbers, picked off the top of your head?

    so you are agreeing that you are emasculated by my ability to play a more demanding club than you.

    how hard was that to say.

    bj... HOW THE HELL ARE YOU ... good to see you back

    Omen
    Until you drop your cavity backs and put the 33s in your bag, I digress.

    It's good to be back.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

  36. #36
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    What the hell I say a few things:

    -Omens rant was actually 740 words.
    -Better players want to hit a cut
    -Omen you have been around for more than 2 years. Omen2 was registered on the site in Oct 06.
    -Lyle Likes young boys.


    That's all for Joel.
    2007-2017 Moderator of the Year.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfaholic
    What the hell I say a few things:

    -Omens rant was actually 740 words.
    -Better players want to hit a cut
    -Omen you have been around for more than 2 years. Omen2 was registered on the site in Oct 06.
    -Lyle Likes young boys.


    That's all for Joel.
    1. really 740... damn.. by the way it only took me 39 minutes to type it
    2. the better hybrid players want to hit a cut, because its the closest those choppers will ever get to a draw.... HACKS..
    3. have i really... i wasnt sure how long Omen was around.. when are you going to free Omen?
    4. I agree with you there..

    Omen
    Omen, the GR standard by which all GOLFERS will be measured.

  38. #38
    daveperk Guest
    wow... I was about to agree with Lyle that Omen isn't funny anymore.... then I saw Omen's spine stiffen and his pride burst forth and his traditionalism stick out its chest and I felt...

    respect? Awe?

    But mostly boredom.. heh... this place is great.

    The HiBore XL and the HiBore XL Tour differ in one respect. The Tour model is 3 degrees open at address, the other is neutral. It's about tour players squaring the clubface so strongly and well that they prefer it laid a bit open at address... and a little bit about the preferred shotshape being a slight fade....

    I like the Tour model, and I like to hit a slight fade, mostly cuz it's way less likely than the draw to sail off the property and across the freeway on me.

    And I'm with the rest of you, hate the sight of a closed driver face at address... destroys my confidence.

    Keep it coming, gents, and I"ll join properly once I get past 500 posts. :-)

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    https://bigcedar.com/golf/buffalo-ridge-springs-course/
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    You and your Adams paddles are gonna fit in nicely to this forum Dave.
    Be glad we aren't getting all of the government we're paying for.

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