Another piece of hacker equipment

[frankdmann]

So I got to thinking about chippers and ball retrievers and magnetic, on-glove ball markers and alien wedges and rubber ball picker uppers that are attached on the ends of putters and brush tees and magnetic ball marker hat clips.

Then, I got thinking about all of those manly men using Pro V1's and forged blades and six-degree drivers and zero irons.

Then I got thinking today on one of my local courses when I was playing with couple of these so-called men, and how they, with their laser-enabled range finders, turned my 4-hour round into a 5-1/2 hour round by triple-checking their distance, making sure that it really WAS 164 yards to the pin, not 161 like their sky caddie said, because of course, the difference between a 98% seven iron and a 95% seven iron is the difference between a hole-out eagle and a shitty six-inch birdie put.

Meanwhile, I'm 195 out and smack my 3iH onto the green, make bird, and wait for the "pros" to save bogey from a trap.

Did I mention that I shot an 88, and the manly men were in the 90's?

So, the question is: are sky caddies and range finders pu$$y-o-meters like hybrids, or since most of you manly men use these items, they get a pass, even though they slow the game down?

Just wonderin'!!!

[Not a hacker]

In theory they should speed the game up by avoiding looking for markers and pacing it out. Obiously your immature playing partners got carried away and took things to the extreme. No wonder you took their cash. Range finders are a good tool, but if you get pre occupied it will affect your ability to concentrate on the game, like the hacks you played with.

[daveperk]

Then I got thinking today on one of my local courses when I was playing with couple of these so-called men, and how they, with their laser-enabled range finders, turned my 4-hour round into a 5-1/2 hour round by triple-checking their distance, making sure that it really WAS 164 yards to the pin, not 161 like their sky caddie said, because of course, the difference between a 98% seven iron and a 95% seven iron is the difference between a hole-out eagle and a shitty six-inch birdie put.

Meanwhile, I'm 195 out and smack my 3iH onto the green, make bird, and wait for the "pros" to save bogey from a trap.

Did I mention that I shot an 88, and the manly men were in the 90's?

One good hole, 17 bad ones, I've had rounds like that. You have my sympathy. :-)

BUt I must agree on the range finder laser thingie. I got one, tried it for a couple of rounds, decided it's worse than useless. IT takes JUST long enough to use that the other guys have their arms folded when you put the laser thing back in the bag, and half the time it doesn't pick up the flag anyways, cuz the sun is too bright or because I can't hold my hands steady enough at distance.

It does work great to find out whether the half wedge I'm looking at is 45 yards or 55 yards, and that does help me get closer to the flag. But for full shots it's useless and a time waster. GPS may be different, but I don't have one yet..

[dorkman53]

Rangefinders can save time if they work and are used properly. I had a Bushnell Yardage Pro that eventually broke, but gave me reasonable service for several years. The problem with it was that the reticule for getting the target was too large, so it had a hard time figuring out whether I wanted the flat or the tree behind the flag.
After it eventually broke, I got a Nikon 500, and it acquires the image almost instantaneously, and with the smaller reticule, it almost always gets the target I have in mind.

Rangefinders do save pacing forward and back from fairway markers, and when we get up to a par 3 hole, it just takes one glance, and then everybody in the group is told the exact distance. No, we don't play "competitively," so nobody is upset that they are being told the distance by somebody else. I'll give buddies the distance to the pin if they want it, when they are in the fairway.

Obviously, any yardage aid can either speed up or slow down the game, depending on how it is employed. Let common sense rule.

[Brock]

that is why I clip my SkyCaddie to my bag loop...when I am thinking about shot and going to select a club it is already on the display I want...I do a quick read of distances to hazards and hole and pick a club...and go for it. Maybe takes an extra 5-10 seconds at tops.

I could see where both could be bothersome but would think the laser rangefinder is longer as you are not just looking at it then you got to aim it...read it....pick another point or two for reference...read it...but either can be assets or hinderances depending on the goof behind it.

[mmdrake]

Yup, Sky caddie is quick and fast. Just look at the pin chart and your within the 5 yard errors for wind , elevation,and the amount of advil in your veins.

Select and Rip.

[pingman360]

i use a laser... i think that they are great the only issue i have is the very same situation you are talking about there is a difference between getting a yardage and going over-board which is clearly what they were doing...

[bjdrivers]

I don't need a laser or any GPS bs. My hybrids automatically adjust my distance accordingly.

[lorenzoinoc]

Rangefinders can save time if they work and are used properly. I had a Bushnell Yardage Pro that eventually broke, but gave me reasonable service for several years. The problem with it was that the reticule for getting the target was too large, so it had a hard time figuring out whether I wanted the flat or the tree behind the flag.
After it eventually broke, I got a Nikon 500, and it acquires the image almost instantaneously, and with the smaller reticule, it almost always gets the target I have in mind.

Rangefinders do save pacing forward and back from fairway markers, and when we get up to a par 3 hole, it just takes one glance, and then everybody in the group is told the exact distance. No, we don't play "competitively," so nobody is upset that they are being told the distance by somebody else. I'll give buddies the distance to the pin if they want it, when they are in the fairway.

Obviously, any yardage aid can either speed up or slow down the game, depending on how it is employed. Let common sense rule.

Not all rangefinders are equal. The newer Nikons (or Callaway if you want the exact same rangefinder for $100 more) have instant response and if you double press the button and hold, the yardage of whatever you're shooting shows up instantly, so you know when you're hitting your target or something else. Works a whole lot faster than hunting down a sprinkler.

So far I haven't had too many people I've played with turn down an offer by me to shoot a distance for them. Including some traditionalists like that a**hole Not a German.

[Not a hacker]

Rangefinders do save pacing forward and back from fairway markers, and when we get up to a par 3 hole, it just takes one glance, and then everybody in the group is told the exact distance. No, we don't play "competitively," so nobody is upset that they are being told the distance by somebody else. I'll give buddies the distance to the pin if they want it, when they are in the fairway.

Obviously, any yardage aid can either speed up or slow down the game, depending on how it is employed. Let common sense rule.

Is it against the rules to give your playing partners yardages? I would have thought it was perfectly legal as yardage markers are all over most courses, and giving someone a yardage they could quite easily get themselves just saves time. I would have thought the only problem is how much you can trust your playing partner.

This is a serious question as I plan to play in some amatuer tourneys this year if my game gets good enough. I also may play pennants for my home club (we don't have a strong team) so I'd like to know.

[lorenzoinoc]

Is it against the rules to give your playing partners yardages? I would have thought it was perfectly legal as yardage markers are all over most courses, and giving someone a yardage they could quite easily get themselves just saves time. I would have thought the only problem is how much you can trust your playing partner.

This is a serious question as I plan to play in some amatuer tourneys this year if my game gets good enough. I also may play pennants for my home club (we don't have a strong team) so I'd like to know.

Here in So. Cal they are generally allowed by local rule in club tournaments, but not legal in open tournament play. When legal, I don't know if one guy can measure and advise. Interesting question, I would think OK, like reading sprinkler or giving overall yardage of a hole, but I'm sure passing it around would be ok. Check with your local rules committees or golf associations putting on the events. The devices that account for elevation changes are universally not permitted.

[Horseballs]

Slow players are slow no matter what. Giving them too much information makes them even slower. There are plates at 100, 150, and 200 (and sprinkler heads marked) at the SPCC and I can guess pretty accurately when I'm in between them, but the slower guys will either pace off from yardage markers and break out the range finders, wasting time.
I'm not a huge fan of range finders, but it just seems like the only people using them are the slow, plodding type of d-bags. No offense to anyone using one of course...

[dorkman53]

Is it against the rules to give your playing partners yardages? I would have thought it was perfectly legal as yardage markers are all over most courses, and giving someone a yardage they could quite easily get themselves just saves time. I would have thought the only problem is how much you can trust your playing partner.

This is a serious question as I plan to play in some amatuer tourneys this year if my game gets good enough. I also may play pennants for my home club (we don't have a strong team) so I'd like to know.

That's why I mentioned that we don't play "competitively." Obviously, if we were taking the game really seriously, one couldn't give any "advice" to someone else. But when it's just a bunch of friends playing a relaxed, recreational game, who cares?

[Not a hacker]

Here in So. Cal they are generally allowed by local rule in club tournaments, but not legal in open tournament play. When legal, I don't know if one guy can measure and advise. Interesting question, I would think OK, like reading sprinkler or giving overall yardage of a hole, but I'm sure passing it around would be ok. Check with your local rules committees or golf associations putting on the events. The devices that account for elevation changes are universally not permitted.

Thanks, I thought it might be covered under 'local rules'. I know it's defnitely not allowed in my part of the world to ask your playing partners what club they are going to hit (but nothing stopping you from peeking in the bag) before they hit, but yardages seems fine. Good to know though, cause if it was illegal both the player asking and the one giving the yardages would be DQ for agreeing to break the rules. It would be a nightmare if it were totally against the rules though, as THE most asked question on the golf course is "how far out am I?"

[lorenzoinoc]

Slow players are slow no matter what. Giving them too much information makes them even slower. There are plates at 100, 150, and 200 (and sprinkler heads marked) at the SPCC and I can guess pretty accurately when I'm in between them, but the slower guys will either pace off from yardage markers and break out the range finders, wasting time.
I'm not a huge fan of range finders, but it just seems like the only people using them are the slow, plodding type of d-bags. No offense to anyone using one of course...

Slow as in how long it takes me to fire, not so in my case. I'm always in search of the sub 3 hr. round. But if you meant slow as in stupid, well, that's alot harder for me to defend.

[dorkman53]

Slow players are slow no matter what. Giving them too much information makes them even slower. There are plates at 100, 150, and 200 (and sprinkler heads marked) at the SPCC and I can guess pretty accurately when I'm in between them, but the slower guys will either pace off from yardage markers and break out the range finders, wasting time.
I'm not a huge fan of range finders, but it just seems like the only people using them are the slow, plodding type of d-bags. No offense to anyone using one of course...

I think there are two kinds of people who might use them, and an anal retentive type would be one of them. However, the same type would be pacing and re-pacing his distances from a yardage marker, too. Somebody who is basically slow is just going to be slow no matter whether he is pacing yardage markers, using a rangefinder, or reading detailed notes from a yardage book. It really speeds my game up, because it takes just a few seconds to get the distance to the flag and the distance to the back of a bunker or the distance to a tree. It takes the mental debating with oneself out of the picture, and the speed of club selection is enhanced.
It's the basic nature of the person, not whether they have a rangefinder, that makes the difference in speed of play, IMHO.

[Not a hacker]

Slow players are slow no matter what. Giving them too much information makes them even slower. There are plates at 100, 150, and 200 (and sprinkler heads marked) at the SPCC and I can guess pretty accurately when I'm in between them, but the slower guys will either pace off from yardage markers and break out the range finders, wasting time.
I'm not a huge fan of range finders, but it just seems like the only people using them are the slow, plodding type of d-bags. No offense to anyone using one of course...

I think in Australia they were initially banned from competition but not sure if that still stands. That means the diligent guys who are prepared to walk the course with the rangefinder and measure off markers around the course and write down yardages in a book get an advantage, which is fair enough.

[lorenzoinoc]

I think there are two kinds of people who might use them, and an anal retentive type would be one of them. However, the same type would be pacing and re-pacing his distances from a yardage marker, too. Somebody who is basically slow is just going to be slow no matter whether he is pacing yardage markers, using a rangefinder, or reading detailed notes from a yardage book. It really speeds my game up, because it takes just a few seconds to get the distance to the flag and the distance to the back of a bunker or the distance to a tree. It takes the mental debating with oneself out of the picture, and the speed of club selection is enhanced.
It's the basic nature of the person, not whether they have a rangefinder, that makes the difference in speed of play, IMHO.

I don't think HB is really serious, just bored and trying some subtle flaming.

[dorkman53]

I don't think HB is really serious, just bored and trying some subtle flaming.

I guess it was too subtle for this dimwitted hombre.....

[Horseballs]

I think there are two kinds of people who might use them, and an anal retentive type would be one of them. However, the same type would be pacing and re-pacing his distances from a yardage marker, too. Somebody who is basically slow is just going to be slow no matter whether he is pacing yardage markers, using a rangefinder, or reading detailed notes from a yardage book. It really speeds my game up, because it takes just a few seconds to get the distance to the flag and the distance to the back of a bunker or the distance to a tree. It takes the mental debating with oneself out of the picture, and the speed of club selection is enhanced.
It's the basic nature of the person, not whether they have a rangefinder, that makes the difference in speed of play, IMHO.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Slow is slow is slow. Range finder and GPS haven't caught on on universally where I'm from, so it seems the only guys who have purchased them are the kind who would need to know the distance to every rock and tree within a 300 yard radius.

[Not a hacker]

I don't think HB is really serious, just bored and trying some subtle flaming.

with some success

[lorenzoinoc]

with some success

He is good at it.

[Horseballs]

To answer the OP's question...
Tiger Woods doesn't use them, so by default, they are for hackers.
End thread.

[Horseballs]

I guess it was too subtle for this dimwitted hombre.....

Dorkman, I'm offended, shocked and disappointed.
The offended part is obvious. The shocked part is growing less obvious. As is the disappointed part. I await your sincere apology.

[Not a hacker]

To answer the OP's question...
Tiger Woods doesn't use them, so by default, they are for hackers.
End thread.

There is brilliance in this simple logic. From now on I think we should use this quick equation as the answer to every question. It is irrefutable and can finally put an end to the incessant arguments about whether clubs like cast POS GI CB shovels, hybrids, long putters etc are real mans clubs or not. This simple formula will negate any other argument.

[lorenzoinoc]

There is brilliance in this simple logic. From now on I think we should use this quick equation as the answer to every question. It is irrefutable and can finally put an end to the incessant arguments about whether clubs like cast POS GI CB shovels, hybrids, long putters etc are real mans clubs or not. This simple formula will negate any other argument.

I, for one, will fight to the death to defend this principle.

[dorkman53]

Dorkman, I'm offended, shocked and disappointed.
The offended part is obvious. The shocked part is growing less obvious. As is the disappointed part. I await your sincere apology.

Uh....I apologize...I guess....but I'm not really sure why.....

[The Purist]

I think the USGA amended the definition of "advice" for 2008 to allow exchange of yardage information. Also, distance finders may now be allowed by Locale Rule (as of 2008).

I was checking to see when the ban on square grooves is supposed to take effect, and ran across the rule changes for 2008. I believe the square grooves are going to be banned at select tournments next year (US Open), and are supposed to be illegal by 2010 for tour pros.

The scoring at the 2009 US Open could get ugly. I wonder if PGA tour players will start using shorter driver shafts in order to find the fairway.

[Not a hacker]

I think the USGA amended the definition of "advice" for 2008 to allow exchange of yardage information. Also, distance finders may now be allowed by Locale Rule (as of 2008).

I was checking to see when the ban on square grooves is supposed to take effect, and ran across the rule changes for 2008. I believe the square grooves are going to be banned at select tournments next year (US Open), and are supposed to be illegal by 2010 for tour pros.

The scoring at the 2009 US Open could get ugly. I wonder if PGA tour players will start using shorter driver shafts in order to find the fairway.

It certainly will be interesting watching them tring to chop it out of the hay without square grooves. There could be some real carnage.

What's the course for 2009?

[daveperk]

It certainly will be interesting watching them tring to chop it out of the hay without square grooves. There could be some real carnage.

Naah... cuz they'll all have changed to Adams boxer hybrids by then. :-)

Any chance Vijay's Cleveland wedges with their sandpaper surface and 'zip grooves' are a victim of this new rule?

I saw a show were someone asked Vijay how he gets so much spin on his wedges, and he says he replaces the heads about once a month or once per six weeks.. soon as they don't feel new, he replaces them... I guess if you hit 500 balls a day on your days off, and play five times a week, you can wear out iron heads in a big hurry.

I've played with clubs that had a sweet spot more worn out than... wait for it....

Not a Hacker's mom's sweet spot.

No wait.. Omen2's mom's hybrid spot.

Too many choices! AARGH!

[bassplayer7770]

I'm probably considered a "hacker", but I still always consider my pace of play. I do not use rangefinders unless maybe the cart is GPS-equipped. The yardage markers on most courses is generally enough for me.

Sometimes I play with my hacker Dad and stepbrothers, and it does aggravate me when they play slow. My biggest problem is when they'll spend several minutes looking for their ball in the woods, and they probably just found that ball anyway, so it's not like they're losing any money. Ugh. They have some lessons to learn... However, I will say we let groups play through if we're slowing them down.

As for those chippers, I see absolutely no point in them personally. I'd much rather just use my 7 or 8-iron with a putting motion, and those are much more versatile clubs.

[The Purist]

NaH,
The 2009 US Open course is Bethpage Black. I read some more about the ban last night and a lot of people are unhappy because it is a retroactive rule change. Many fear that if the USGA doesn't get the results they are looking for by reducing iron/wedge spin out of the rough, that they may make other retroactive changes. Imagine what would happen if drivers were forced to lose a 100cc's or MOI's were lowered.

[dorkman53]

NaH,
The 2009 US Open course is Bethpage Black. I read some more about the ban last night and a lot of people are unhappy because it is a retroactive rule change. Many fear that if the USGA doesn't get the results they are looking for by reducing iron/wedge spin out of the rough, that they may make other retroactive changes. Imagine what would happen if drivers were forced to lose a 100cc's or MOI's were lowered.

I'm not trying to flame you, but how can a change to be put into effect in 2009 be considered "retroactive?"
By context, perhaps "reactionary" or "retrogressive" is the meaning intended.

[Omen2]

in response to the original question... frank do I have one?

there ya go... sort of the same logic of does tiger have one?

99 times out of 99 the answers will be the same.

Omen

[lorenzoinoc]

I'm not trying to flame you, but how can a change to be put into effect in 2009 be considered "retroactive?"
By context, perhaps "reactionary" or "retrogressive" is the meaning intended.

Unlike many Italians, I'm for abortion, and I think it should be retroactive.

Let's start with people in the group in front of you who continue to look for their balls even after you get to the tee.

[dorkman53]

Unlike many Italians, I'm for abortion, and I think it should be retroactive.

Let's start with people in the group in front of you who continue to look for their balls even after you get to the tee.

The other offense for which capital punishment should be seriously considered is for the halfwits who spit sunflower seed shells out onto the green.

[The Purist]

Sorry for the confusion Dorkman. Im not very polished when it comes to grammer and vocabulary. I blame my Mom really. If she hadn't been an english teacher, Im sure I wouldn't have rebelled so hard against grammer and vocabulary. Its kind of like the "Preacher's Kid Effect," where the kids of preachers often become rebellious hellions that end up leaving the church.

Anyway, in 1981 the USGA ruled that manufacturers would be allowed to produce irons and wedges with square/u shaped grooves. Before 1981, only v-shaped grooves were deemed legal. The USGA is now saying they want to go back and repeal (or whatever better vocabulary word you can find) the 1981 ruling.

...Did I really just mention my Mom on this forum....Anyone got any sunflower seeds?

[Omen2]

your moms got seeds... .ohhhhh


actually i do enjoy sunflower seeds on the course.. i use them to gauge the wind.

and on the greens to guage the general break from all sides... i usually only spit about 20 per green.. the wind should blow them away...

Omen