There is ZERO proof of Evolution... the theory.

[famousdavis]

The complete collapse of the American Empire, now proceding with unstoppable momentum, may be directly attributed to our failure to seriously commit to good, public education for all.

If this thread doesn't prove it beyond all sane argument..........I can't even finish the sentence.

This thread clearly does prove it.

What do you mean by "our" failure? You mean the failure of the overstaffed government? Do you think it would matter to an inner-city kid if he had newer books, a shinier desk and a higher-paid teacher? If he studies hard and gets good grades his friends will call him "whitey".

That is the real problem. Our government provides free benefits to the lower class and, as a result, it becomes a class that feels entitled and does nothing to further itself. The long term result is that the lower class becomes less educated and less skilled.

Give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you've fed him for a lifetime.

The fast food chains are hiring, but welfare and unemployment are better deals to the recipients. Why flip burgers when you can sit at home.

I've always been a hard worker and tend to do everything around the house myself so I guess I'm a different breed. The idea of somebody giving me something for nothing in return makes me cringe. That just ain't the way I roll.

Out.

[poe4soul]

Agreed.

Let's get back to how sand and saltwater from a big uncontrolled explosion caused life.... That life 'created' would then have to eat life, to exist, as all life eats life, but there is no life to eat...

Impossible; if you disagree, post proof here....

NON LIFE TO LIFE!!!

Come on kids, give me something to work with... we have to start at kindergarten before moving on to the first grade; let's start at life coming from non life....

How did life come from non life?

How did I come from NOTHING; non life?

Wofat provided some ridiculous link that said we had a tail before.

A spider monkey climbed up on me in the dark, when I was in Manous (Brasil) and his tail was fabulous and useful; like a fifth hand...

A leopard needs its tail, also, to guide it, when chasing its prey...

lol. So humans sat for millions of years on an 8 inch tail, then 7 inch tail, then 6 inch tail, then 5 inch tail, then 4 inch tail, then 3 inch tail...

Every animal that exists needs their tail. Why would a leopard or spider monkey need to lose its tail?


Retards,

All of you,

spank

All too deep for me. All I know is humans have a hard time imagining what a million of anything is let alone billions. We live a short time in cosmic terms, being billions of years. So, to say we can't imagine something coming from nothing in terms of years and evolution, I agree. We can't imagine a subtle change over millions and millions of years. It's just beyond our little brains comprehension. In contrast, biologists just discovered two distinct sub species in Central Park because of their isolation in a very short time. So? believe what you want. There will not be a "rapture" and the earth will continue well past our extinction. (Unless by rapture you mean a larger meteor striking the earth and causing death and starvation for many generations...)

[poe4soul]

What do you mean by "our" failure? You mean the failure of the overstaffed government? Do you think it would matter to an inner-city kid if he had newer books, a shinier desk and a higher-paid teacher? If he studies hard and gets good grades his friends will call him "whitey".

That is the real problem. Our government provides free benefits to the lower class and, as a result, it becomes a class that feels entitled and does nothing to further itself. The long term result is that the lower class becomes less educated and less skilled.

Give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you've fed him for a lifetime.

The fast food chains are hiring, but welfare and unemployment are better deals to the recipients. Why flip burgers when you can sit at home.

I've always been a hard worker and tend to do everything around the house myself so I guess I'm a different breed. The idea of somebody giving me something for nothing in return makes me cringe. That just ain't the way I roll.

Out.

Did your dad pay for your membership dues at your country club when you were growing up or did you pay for it yourself flipping burgers?

I'm not saying your wrong about the fish analogy, but isn't school teaching a man not giving them handouts?

[Kiwi Player]

Even in NZ there are children born into homes where the parents are either unemployed or earning such low wages that their children go to school hungry without shoes on their feet. You don't need to look as far as Somalia. I'm sure you could find examples in your own back yard. There are and always will be poor people that live below the poverty line.

[famousdavis]

Did your dad pay for your membership dues at your country club when you were growing up or did you pay for it yourself flipping burgers?

I'm not saying your wrong about the fish analogy, but isn't school teaching a man not giving them handouts?

I got a job bussing tables at El Torito when I was 16 years old and then I became a waiter. I've always worked and will continue doing so until I no longer can. I could probaby retire in 10 years, based on my savings, but I would never do such a thing. We were put on this planet to contribute, not to sit back and retire whenever we feel like it. It's called commitment and service and being the best you can be. I've never settled.

Of course I didn't pay for my father's country club, clubs I received on my birthday or the car I received on my 16th birthday. My parents wanted to give me that stuff and it made them feel good to do so.

Now, I will say that I was very nice to the staff at the country club and called the snack shack person by their first name. I'd always let the head pro know that, while I'm extremely important, I do recognize him as a human being.

A typical Saturday would be waking up at 10am, putting on the golfing attire and then heading out with my fellow CC'ers who were around my age. We'd hit a few balls on the range and then stop at the snack shack, order some lunch and then sign for it. We'd then play 9, stop at the snack shack again and sign for some more food. After 18 we'd hit some more balls and maybe lounge at the pool for awhile. I'd make sure to smile at the towel girl.

Afterward I'd go tell the pro about my round and anyone else who was there. They were always interested to hear how "the kid" had played that day.

After golf I'd go to my job and make some coin. I'd take my girl out that night, cause I could. Always liked the green.

[buddha33]

Even in NZ there are children born into homes where the parents are either unemployed or earning such low wages that their children go to school hungry without shoes on their feet. You don't need to look as far as Somalia. I'm sure you could find examples in your own back yard. There are and always will be poor people that live below the poverty line.

Agreed. I didn't want to use the poor people in the US as an example because they're all just lazy.

The narrow-mindedness on this board is depressing sometimes.

[famousdavis]

I'm pretty sure all cities have a big brother program. You can become a big brother to a kid and help teach him the ways of the world. Government giving checks to the parents of these kids is a program that will never work. Why? Because the parents spend it on themselves.

Life is hard. Why is it government's role to make it easy when, in reality, it can't be.

[buddha33]

I'm pretty sure all cities have a big brother program. You can become a big brother to a kid and help teach him the ways of the world. Government giving checks to the parents of these kids is a program that will never work. Why? Because the parents spend it on themselves.

Life is hard. Why is it government's role to make it easy when, in reality, it can't be.

The question is, are you a big brother? It's all nice and easy to say something should be a certain way and not have to put an ounce of energy into it.

Now we've really veered off-track. Spank is gonna be pissed.

[edgey]

WTF is intelligent design?!

Since when did the word doctors get to creationism?

Is this an OIA FFS

[oldplayer]

I think you should stick to being the best ballstriker on the planet FD.
You have been owned here I am afraid.

[famousdavis]

I think you should stick to being the best ballstriker on the planet FD.
You have been owned here I am afraid.

OP just hurt my feelings so I've decided to quit contributing to this thread. I think the basic problem is that I'm too smart for my own good.

[lorenzoinoc]

OP just hurt my feelings so I've decided to quit contributing to this thread. I think the basic problem is that I'm too smart for my own good.

Why'd you pull the original version of your response to OP? So you shed a few tears, it happens.

[SoonerBS]

WTF is intelligent design?!

Since when did the word doctors get to creationism?

Is this an OIA FFS

I think you might have just blown everyone's case in support of an intelligent designer. There is no way that an intelligent designer would have created the English.

[Kiwi Player]

WTF is intelligent design?

I assume it's the guy who designed Ping Eye 2's ... Oops ... WTF am I saying ... I mean MP33's.

[poe4soul]

The question is, are you a big brother? It's all nice and easy to say something should be a certain way and not have to put an ounce of energy into it.

Now we've really veered off-track. Spank is gonna be pissed.

Yah, you beat me to that one. F'ing work getting in the way of posting...

FD, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Saying what some disadvantaged kid, growing up with a single mom on welfare or working 2 jobs to keep food on the table, etc. etc. should do from your perspective is pretty bold. People, like yourself and myself, with good parents, that were available to help teach life's lessons, let alone help you do your geometry homework, have very little perspective what it is like to walk a mile in their shoes.

It probably would be a eye opener for you to volunteer at the big brothers and be a role model for a ghetto, welfare mom, teenage boy.

You didn't answer the college part. Did you pay your way through college or did mom and dad foot the bill?

[famousdavis]

Yah, you beat me to that one. F'ing work getting in the way of posting...

FD, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Saying what some disadvantaged kid, growing up with a single mom on welfare or working 2 jobs to keep food on the table, etc. etc. should do from your perspective is pretty bold. People, like yourself and myself, with good parents, that were available to help teach life's lessons, let alone help you do your geometry homework, have very little perspective what it is like to walk a mile in their shoes.

It probably would be a eye opener for you to volunteer at the big brothers and be a role model for a ghetto, welfare mom, teenage boy.

You didn't answer the college part. Did you pay your way through college or did mom and dad foot the bill?

I'm not denying that I grew up with advantages. I can't do anything about that. I have volunteered at various local charities and have given back to lower income communities. There is no easy answer when it comes to welfare. Some people deserve it and some exploit it. Not sure what can be done about that.

I worked while I was in college but did not pay for it all.

Some of this is tongue and cheek.

[poe4soul]

I'm not denying that I grew up with advantages. I can't do anything about that. I have volunteered at various local charities and have given back to lower income communities. There is no easy answer when it comes to welfare. Some people deserve it and some exploit it. Not sure what can be done about that.

I worked while I was in college but did not pay for it all.

Some of this is tongue and cheek.

Fair enough.

I've tried to hire people with "disadvantaged" backgrounds with mixed results. Some had educational shortcomings, others had social shortcomings. All in all, I've come to the conclusion that my parents had more to do with my success than any other single factor. I can't imagine trying to succeed in life without their role models.

Ultimately, children that grow up in bad homes can't do anything about their lose of proper role models. Honestly, all you can hope they do better than their role models. Unfortunately, that might be one step out of the gutter. Personally, I would spend my taxes helping children from the ages between 3 and 12. After that these children should be able to figure it out. They might stumble but if they have had good role models they will right their own ship.

[oldplayer]

OP just hurt my feelings so I've decided to quit contributing to this thread. I think the basic problem is that I'm too smart for my own good.

It wasn't my intention to hurt your feelings FD. I apologise if I offended you.
That said, when you have as much to say, or perhaps preach on this topic as you do, you have to accept that you open yourself up by doing so to having others offer rebuttle to your arguements.
I was pointing out that IMO Budda had clearly put the better case for any thinking rational person. And furthermore was able to point out your contradictions with clarity.
It would do you no harm to realise that although you are intelligent and articulate, there is still plenty to learn from others if you are wise.

[lorenzoinoc]

Fair enough.

I've tried to hire people with "disadvantaged" backgrounds with mixed results. Some had educational shortcomings, others had social shortcomings. All in all, I've come to the conclusion that my parents had more to do with my success than any other single factor. I can't imagine trying to succeed in life without their role models.

Ultimately, children that grow up in bad homes can't do anything about their lose of proper role models. Honestly, all you can hope they do better than their role models. Unfortunately, that might be one step out of the gutter. Personally, I would spend my taxes helping children from the ages between 3 and 12. After that these children should be able to figure it out. They might stumble but if they have had good role models they will right their own ship.

We humans like to think we not only have things figured out but have choice. That's all fiction. We do whatever our next step is in a chain of activity that's already been set in motion and not by us. That next step is autonomic.

We are but an amoeba with greater potential to perceive our experience. I offer as example every thing every human has ever done in the history of humans.

[famousdavis]

It wasn't my intention to hurt your feelings FD. I apologise if I offended you.
That said, when you have as much to say, or perhaps preach on this topic as you do, you have to accept that you open yourself up by doing so to having others offer rebuttle to your arguements.
I was pointing out that IMO Budda had clearly put the better case for any thinking rational person. And furthermore was able to point out your contradictions with clarity.
It would do you no harm to realise that although you are intelligent and articulate, there is still plenty to learn from others if you are wise.

OP, I wasn't offended at all. We are fellow club ho'ers so I know you've got my back. I'll be the first to admit that on very rare occassions I might make a statement or two that is done prior to conducting thorough research on the topic. There was one instance about two years ago that comes to mind. Something about robotic ants.

Anyway, all is good. We can all thank our higher power for the patience and understanding that is inherent in all of us.

[lorenzoinoc]

Someone open a window and let some of the estrogen out of here.

[SoonerBS]

Someone open a window and let some of the estrogen out of here.

You can kiss my ass!!!

(There, we have the testosterone flowing again.)

[poe4soul]

We humans like to think we not only have things figured out but have choice. That's all fiction. We do whatever our next step is in a chain of activity that's already been set in motion and not by us. That next step is autonomic.

We are but an amoeba with greater potential to perceive our experience. I offer as example every thing every human has ever done in the history of humans.

The minute I think I've figured something out and I am certain about most anything, I'm proven wrong. I quit thinking in absolutes a long time ago.

[buddha33]

I caught a great show on the Discovery channel this weekend called Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking. The one specific episode was about the existence of god and how the laws of nature can explain how something came from nothing and how humans have a conscious. It probably won't change anyone's mind one way or the other, but I felt there was some pretty interesting food for thought.

[rooboy]

I caught a great show on the Discovery channel this weekend called Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking. The one specific episode was about the existence of god and how the laws of nature can explain how something came from nothing and how humans have a conscious. It probably won't change anyone's mind one way or the other, but I felt there was some pretty interesting food for thought.

May be way off the mark here Buddha, but was the program suggesting the reason humans believe in God is because we have a conscious? I used to attended church a couple of times a month and after a few years i stopped. I had formed the opinion that having a conscious had a lot to do with belief, along with the view that there are just some people that are horrified by the thought that there is not something else "after life". Whilst i generally have a clear conscious, i am happy with the thought of when i'm done,i'm done!

[buddha33]

It wasn't anything like that. Basically the suggestion is that things we use to defend the existence of god can actually be explained by the same laws of nature that govern everything else we see. Things like, "how did something come from nothing?", or "how do we have any ability to comprehend our existence through conciousness?". I won't do a good job of articulating the theories, but just wanted to pass along that I thought it was pretty interesting.

[NiftyNiblick]

If a perfect, all-loving God truly exists, it isn't necessary for us to believe. He/She wouldn't be vain enough to care.

[Kiwi Player]

May be way off the mark here Buddha, but was the program suggesting the reason humans believe in God is because we have a conscious? I used to attended church a couple of times a month and after a few years i stopped. I had formed the opinion that having a conscious had a lot to do with belief, along with the view that there are just some people that are horrified by the thought that there is not something else "after life". Whilst i generally have a clear conscious, i am happy with the thought of when i'm done,i'm done!

Well my view on this is that every man woman and child who ever lived before me has died. It's part of life. It's inevitable. Why should we fear this?