Natural shot shape or Swing flaw???

[Kiwi Player]

How many of you consistently shape your drives off the tee?

I spend most of my time trying to hit it straight and on the good days it flies pretty straight and on the off days it is wild slice's interspersed with the occasional pull left (which I know is caused by the same out to in swing flaw).

During a recent round I was trying my hardest to hit it staright and was getting wild inconsistent shots all over the show. So on about the 4th or 5th tee I just decided to relax, aim left and let my natural fade bring the ball back to the center of the fairway which it did perfectly! For the rest of the round I continued to do this with consistent results and must have hit about 8 or 9 fairways out of 10.

I keep reading articles saying you should play your 'natural shot' ie fade or draw. But I wonder whether I am doing the right thing by playing this fade or whether I am simply cultivating a swing flaw that will become that much harder to fix once it becomes ingrained?

Just curious about others opinions?

I play off a 15 handicap and I'm on the way down (hopefully)

[Horseballs]

How many of you consistently shape your drives off the tee?

I spend most of my time trying to hit it straight and on the good days it flies pretty straight and on the off days it is wild slice's interspersed with the occasional pull left (which I know is caused by the same out to in swing flaw).

During a recent round I was trying my hardest to hit it staright and was getting wild inconsistent shots all over the show. So on about the 4th or 5th tee I just decided to relax, aim left and let my natural fade bring the ball back to the center of the fairway which it did perfectly! For the rest of the round I continued to do this with consistent results and must have hit about 8 or 9 fairways out of 10.

I keep reading articles saying you should play your 'natural shot' ie fade or draw. But I wonder whether I am doing the right thing by playing this fade or whether I am simply cultivating a swing flaw that will become that much harder to fix once it becomes ingrained?

Just curious about others opinions?

I play off a 15 handicap and I'm on the way down (hopefully)

I hit a straight ball off the tee with the driver, with my miss being a fade to a slice. I usually aim down the left center of the fairway and play for the straight ball or fade. Of course there will be days where I slice the hell out of the ball and put away the driver altogether.
When I'm practicing, I try to work on limiting my misses, but not when I'm playing a round.

[LyleG]

The hardest shot in golf is to hit it straight. Jack said everyone should curve the ball, its just far easier.
Play what works.

[Montagle]

It is really not impossible at all to hit it straight with these giant drivers and hot balls. I have played long enough to watch my ball flight change with each new technology.

With an old TM Burner Bubble driver and a Titleist pro- 90 ball my ball flight is VERY different than what the same swing produces with an HX Black and a 580xd.

So work on fundamentals and try to find your natural flight anf then try to make it repeat.

Pulls suck, so do big weak slices. But a moderate fade, draw, or somewhat straight ball is anyone's friend. I have a persimmon driver with a steel shaft and when my driving game goes in the crapper I practice with this club. Puts me back on track pretty quick.

[Omen2]

I generally try to play a draw with all my and woods.......very rarely will i try to cut a 3 wood or driver into position...and there are multiple reasons to learn the draw shot...

- it goes farther
- it is harder to over hook the ball than it is to over slice the ball
- the wind has less effect on the ball
- if you are a split second late on the release the ball goes straight as opposed to way right

...in fact the only clubs i will try to work are the mid and long irons....generallys speaking i dont try to move the ball much with an 8 or 9 iron....and almost never with a wedge....the 8or 9 if i am going to move it it will be right to left, but i do have an out to in swing path so it's a bit easier for me to move a ball left than right....to be perfectly honest if i am going to hit a fade I have to take several practice swings trying to get the path right and a feel for the delayed release and higher finish, so it takes me a while.....so usually if my ball goes left to right any at all, I made a bad swing or i had a hanging lie.

but i would agree that it's hard to hit the ball straight with long clubs, especially if you are playing a 3+ piece ball, so find your natural ball flight and go with that....and if your natural ball flight is left to right, for a right hander, fix your swing path so that it is right to left....

[clmax]

I have the same problem with my misses - fade or slice. It's almost always caused by a late release. If I force the release, I hit a low hook. I can work my irons very well, but I have a hadr time working the woods.

Ultimately, the best solution is to learn to hit a draw. But that's easier said than done.

[LyleG]

and there are multiple reasons to learn the draw shot...

- it is harder to over hook the ball than it is to over slice the ball

This simply isnt true. I am willing to bet David Duval would back me up on this as well.

[Horseballs]

This simply isnt true. I am willing to bet David Duval would back me up on this as well.

Also, a big hook can produce much worse results than a weak slice because it has more forward momentum.

[Omen2]

80 something percent of golfers fight a slice.

IT IS HARDER TO OVERHOOK A BALL THAN TO OVERSLICE ONE.

who cares what one retard who hasn't won in 25 years thinks?

to overhook the ball you have to have a violent release through the ball, to overslice it..just dont release enough....

A hook is called a GOOD players miss for a reason....and how many people fight snap hooking or 50 yard hooks....how many fight 50 yard slices???

AGAIN....harder to screw up the draw than it is the fade. so everyone who plays should learn to hit a draw.

[Horseballs]

AGAIN....harder to screw up the draw than it is the fade. so everyone who plays should learn to hit a draw.

Vijay Singh? Ben Hogan? Sam Snead?
They patterned their entire swings to avoid the fade/slice because it's a crappy shot. Oh wait, it's the other way around.
If you naturally draw, great. If you naturally fade, great. If you naturally slice, work it out.

[golfaholic]

"you can take to a fade but a hook never listens"

I wish I could hit a cut.

I can shank it when ever I want to now though.

[LyleG]

Omen, why do post on a golf forum when you know so very little about golf?

A lot of people fight a hook, I would guess roughly 35% of all players. I have a people in my shop every day asking what I can do to fix this for them with equipment. A hook kills scores far faster than a slice. With so many manufacturers going to closed faces in their gear, the number of hook fighters will only increase.

[Omen2]

Omen, why do post on a golf forum when you know so very little about golf?

A lot of people fight a hook, I would guess roughly 35% of all players. I have a people in my shop every day asking what I can do to fix this for them with equipment. A hook kills scores far faster than a slice. With so many manufacturers going to closed faces in their gear, the number of hook fighters will only increase.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT....IDIOT....

you guess wrong mofo... WHY DO YOU POST ON A GOLF FORUM WHEN YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW YOUR AS.S FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND?


http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...503802,00.html

9 out of 10 golfers fight slices.... PHUCKING RETARD...dont ever question me boy!

according to the experts...and ME...oh wait i did say experts....biotch....the slice is the worst ball flight.

NEXT...........

[Horseballs]

YOU'RE AN IDIOT....IDIOT....

you guess wrong mofo... WHY DO YOU POST ON A GOLF FORUM WHEN YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW YOUR AS.S FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND?


http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...503802,00.html

9 out of 10 golfers fight slices.... PHUCKING RETARD...dont ever question me boy!

according to the experts...and ME...oh wait i did say experts....biotch....the slice is the worst ball flight.

NEXT...........

Did you actually read the article? The slice is worse if you do it every time you tee off. I'd rather have one vicious slice per round than one vicious hook.

[Omen2]

are you phucking serious?

no way you're that silly. It's not a problem if it only happens once...If you asked a pro which one they would prefer to hit only one of they wouldnt care...why because a vicious slice or hook puts you in pretty much the same predicament....

how about this one...water all down the right side....which do you prefer now???? the hook or the slice???

we of course are talking about something you do everytime....9 out of 10 golfers are slicing the ball off every tee.....

if you are hooking a ball then you are releasing to quickly...it's not to hard to slow down your hands....it is harder to speed them up a little...if it werent so then more people would fight a hook than a slice....but its safe to say that 90% is an overwhelming majority...

but if anyone else feels the need to look retarded come in here and say that the hook plagues golfers more than the slice


NEXT...........

[Horseballs]

are you phucking serious?

no way you're that silly. It's not a problem if it only happens once...If you asked a pro which one they would prefer to hit only one of they wouldnt care...why because a vicious slice or hook puts you in pretty much the same predicament....

how about this one...water all down the right side....which do you prefer now???? the hook or the slice???

we of course are talking about something you do everytime....9 out of 10 golfers are slicing the ball off every tee.....

if you are hooking a ball then you are releasing to quickly...it's not to hard to slow down your hands....it is harder to speed them up a little...if it werent so then more people would fight a hook than a slice....but its safe to say that 90% is an overwhelming majority...

but if anyone else feels the need to look retarded come in here and say that the hook plagues golfers more than the slice


NEXT...........

I'm going to assume you are talking to LyleG here. If not, please re-read my posts in this thread.
Oh well, I'm going home.
'Night Omen.

[golfaholic]

...dont ever question me boy!
NEXT...........

hahahaha he's like 3 times ur age.

[poe4soul]

I don't try to fix any swing on the course. If I am hitting a fade off the tee I play a fade. Usaually during the round my swing will come back and so will a straight or a slight draw.

Play the shot you bring to the tee and leave the swing changes to the range or a lesson.

[dorkman53]

Every so often when I am playing solo, I end up getting into a group where one of the guys has a perpetual slice. How do they usually correct it? The open their stance further to "compensate" for the slice, which only makes them slice more. Or they close their clubhead about 15-25 degrees, and still slice it. Every so often, though, when they are set up to play the monster slice, they hit it straight, with predictable O.B. results.

Obviously, it's great to be able to hit straight, and still draw or cut/fade at will. But if one can hit the ball straight or have only a small draw or face, you can keep the ball in the fairway the vast majority of the time and have a decent round.

When I hit a hook, it's invariably from rushing the tempo, and when I hit a slice, it's because I've blocked my swing and haven't released my hands. Nothing surprising there. At least I can recognize what I've done wrong and try to correct it next time. Simply trying to compensate for a bad swing is counterproductive in the long run, though.

[emc]

I play a 10 yard draw off the tee and a gradually smaller one with the irons. I strugle to fade it, which is a far better shot because you can keep it safe easier and stop it on the green quicker. My bad shot of late is a snapper but I'm rigorously ironing it out

[LyleG]

Omen,

If you are getting your golf info from golfonline than you are bigger lost cause than I originally thought.
I have 20-50 people a day in my shop. I think my real world experience is a little better than yours.
Nice try though.

[Omen2]

Look Lyle...I like you, i find you comical...but enough is enough...every time i search this i get at a minimum 85% of golfers slice the ball...I don't care what the 40 people you know do...I am talking about the millions of golfers out there.....

do me a favor find one site that says 35% of golfers out there fight a hook....good luck, but it's not going to happen.

I have forgotten more about golf than you know, so come back when you aren't in RETARD mode.....let me guess, the fade also goes farther than the draw right?

did you know that 35% of posters on golf forums have been found to be stupid enough to think that 35% of golfers fight a hook; that's only 35% of the time when using their driver on 35% of the par 4's played on the harder 35% of the golf courses in which 35% offline shots result in a score that is typically 35% higher than one that finds a fairway 35% of the time if the green is no more than 35% obstructed by 35% of the trees on either side. In conclusion anyone that says 35% of golfers fight a hook quite obviously has no real world experience with golf or their I.Q. is only 35% of 100.....so which is it....are you a RETARD or are you ready to admit YOU ARE WRONG.


NEXT............

[LyleG]

Wow, you really are an idiot aren't you.

[golfslo]

omen, your original post suggests that a draw is superior to ANY left to right movement. nobody will argue with you when you say that someone who ALWAYS slices needs to fix their swing, but your original comment, "if your natural ball flight is left to right, for a right hander, fix your swing path so that it is right to left", is ridulous. I play to a 4 handicap with a natural fade and have no plans to "fix my swing path so that it is right to left." On some courses a fade is superior to a draw, and visa versa.

[Golfing Penguin]

Wow, you really are an idiot aren't you.

Judging from his posts, Yeah I agree.

[LyleG]

Jack played a pretty big fade his whole career, and we all know what a hack he was.

[Omen2]

OKAY....you smart guys, reread my original post...i listed reasons why the draw is a better shot than the fade WITH THE LONGER CLUBS....never did i say you couldn't play and do so rather well with a fade....

a fade is a miss...a glancing blow...can it be played sure....but the draw is the better miss to have.....i wont say that a hook is better than a slice because personally i dont care what side of the fairway the trees im in are on? you cant play a hook any better than a slice.

there are no courses in the world where a fade or a draw cant be used....because a fade that lands in the woods is no better than a draw that lands in the woods....

It only comes down to balls in the fairway...and for that the draw is SUPERIOR....for the average player the reason they cant hit a draw is because they don't fully release the club...if you hit a draw then you are fully releasing the club therefore you are at least making a full and correct swing, you just have to learn to slow down your hands but AT LEAST YOU ARE RELEASING THE CLUB. the majority of golfers that fade the ball ...like all of them are due to the fact that they dont release the club.

its pretty easy to slow down the hands through impact, it's not so easy to speed them up...so if you are hitting a planning on hitting a draw and you slow down a little what happens...it goes straight....now what happens if you plan on hitting a fade and your hands slow down a little...now its a slice.......

it is harder to hit a hook because the draw shot swing path does not come natural....how many golfers pick up a driver for the first time and hit hooks??????NOT MANY...WHY....BECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO HIT A HOOK....

how many golfers first ball flight is the slice???? ALMOST ALL OF THEM....WHY ..... BECAUSE IT'S EASY TO HIT A SLICE....even Tiger's first ball flight was a slice

Sure Jack played great, but he hit ten billion golf balls everyday...do you have that kind of time to work on your fade.... no...didn't think so.....

AGAIN...every amateur/ recreational golfer should learn to draw their woods....not saying that's the only shot to hit with them but you should definitely be able to do it

NO MATTER HOW MANY GAY PENGUINS OR LYLE LOVETT'S YOU GET ON HERE IS ANYONE GOING TO CONVINCE ME THAT A FADE IS A BETTER BALL FLIGHT....

it's a game of distance so THE DRAW WINS.....and since the draw on average goes 17 yards farther I think that would be the ball flight preferred by 98% of all golfers, especially in regards to their woods.

Me personally i will take a 7 iron into a green over a 5 iron any day

....LYLE...YOU'RE AN IDIOT, AND YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHI.T ABOUT GOLF......ADMIT THAT YOU AND YOU'RE 35% ARE AS IGNORANT AS SAYING A PRO V1 IS NO BETTER THAN A DUNLOP LOCO...

AND PENGUIN MOLESTOR, BE QUITE BEFORE YOU GET TREATED WORSE THAN TIB WAS BY SPANK

[SeldomInTheSlot]

Omen- Deciphering your posts I came up with following: You're a righty with an out-to-in swingpath that plays a right-to-left draw. Due to your natural out to in swing path it's a bit easier for you to move the ball left. This makes no sense. An out-to-in path causes a fade/slice, not a draw.

PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF CHOP-CHOP QUICK LIKE!!!

[Golfing Penguin]

"AND PENGUIN MOLESTOR, BE QUITE BEFORE YOU GET TREATED WORSE THAN
TIB WAS BY SPANK"

Get a life. You wrote all that? You need to go find some friends and go outside instead of spending 24/7 in front of your mothers PC in her basement

[LyleG]

a fade is a miss...a glancing blow..

Umm, no it isnt. You can hit a fade just as solidly as a draw or a straight shot. A fade is caused by an open face angle at impact. It has nothing to do with the solidness of the strike.

It only comes down to balls in the fairway...and for that the draw is SUPERIOR...

Again, wrong. A fade will roll less and land much softer than a draw. Meaning it will stay in the fairway more ofter, this magbifies as fairways get tighter and harder.

for the average player the reason they cant hit a draw is because they don't fully release the club...if you hit a draw then you are fully releasing the club therefore you are at least making a full and correct swing, you just have to learn to slow down your hands but AT LEAST YOU ARE RELEASING THE CLUB. the majority of golfers that fade the ball ...like all of them are due to the fact that they dont release the club.

Again, this couldnt be further from the truth. The reason you slice or hook, fade or draw, is the face angle at impact. You can have late release and slice the ball ala Phil Mickelson and Tiger.

it is harder to hit a hook because the draw shot swing path does not come natural....how many golfers pick up a driver for the first time and hit hooks??????NOT MANY...WHY....BECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO HIT A HOOK....

Actually the biggest reason for the closed face that causes a hook is too early of a release. An in to out swing path is no harder to achieve than an out to in swing path. How many people put on skates for the first time and can skate?

AGAIN...every amateur/ recreational golfer should learn to draw their woods....not saying that's the only shot to hit with them but you should definitely be able to do it

This only flies in the face of most of the top 100 teachers in the world, but hey you know it all dont you.

NO MATTER HOW MANY GAY PENGUINS OR LYLE LOVETT'S YOU GET ON HERE IS ANYONE GOING TO CONVINCE ME THAT A FADE IS A BETTER BALL FLIGHT....
it's a game of distance so THE DRAW WINS.....and since the draw on average goes 17 yards farther I think that would be the ball flight preferred by 98% of all golfers, especially in regards to their woods.

Most tour pros play a fade off the tee.

LYLE...YOU'RE AN IDIOT, AND YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHI.T ABOUT GOLF......ADMIT THAT YOU AND YOU'RE 35% ARE AS IGNORANT AS SAYING A PRO V1 IS NO BETTER THAN A DUNLOP LOCO...

Ok if you say so.

[golfaholic]

you guys are so rude towards one another.

who gives a flying **** about what is easier to hit. everyone has different amounts of skill so there is no way to actuall find out for sure what is harder.

harder shot for noob - controled draw
" " " experianced scratch golfer- most likley a cut.

it all evens out.


beginners start sliceing the ball because the don't understand the golf swing. once they discover they are swinging improperly there 90 yard slice turns into a 10 yard cut the can break 100 with.

...

JS

[SeldomInTheSlot]

Kiwi - I just accepted the fact that I was going to fade or slice my drives for many years. The biggest problem with that was that I was giving up distance off the tee by hitting weak fades with little roll instead of straight or draw shots that tend to be hotter off the clubface and roll further. Also, some holes don't allow for you to fade a driver off the tee even though you know you'll need driver distance to have any chance of reaching the green in regulation. I figured that it would help me be a better golfer if I learned how to hit a draw, so last spring I practiced drawing the ball a lot.

My slicing problem was mostly caused by an out-to-in swing path as opposed to an open clubface, and one huge tip really helped me with that almost immediately. At address try lining up square to your target line as you would normally, but instead of thinking about hitting the ball straight down the line, imagine you are trying to hit the ball about 30 degrees to the right (for a righty) of the target line. In order to do this you need to try to strike the inside rear quadrant of the ball as opposed to the very back part of the ball. These thoughts help me to swing the club at the ball from inside the line, which is one way to hit a draw or at least straighten a slice. If you close your stance slightly at address that will also help promote an inside approach and increase the draw effect. I will also warm up on the range by hitting a few easy drives with a severely closed stance because that helps me get the feeling of a proper release. With a little practice I have been able to cut down my percentage of banana balls dramatically.

Hope this helps some. It worked for me.

p.s. Hi everybody. I'm back after a long layoff from GR and the game. I haven't been able to play since early July because I hurt my back again, but now I'm feeling good and can't wait for some nice weather. Chatting about golf is depressing if you know you can't play, thus the GR break.

[Omen2]

Lyle, you are a special person....when i said they dont release the club I mean at impact...who phucking cares what you do with the club after the ball is gone IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AFFECT ON THE BALL.... since you are a newbie to GOLF let me help you out....we only refer to things that affect impact so basically a second before and an inch after impact (time that the ball is still on the club face) because the top of your backswing and the followthrough have no affect on the ball's flight in any way.... sure the things that happen there are indicative of what will or is happening to it but the dont actually affect it. so put this in your notes: IMPACT

look retard....a fade is a glancing blow...GLANCING....if it were a solid shot it would go as far as a straight shot, but it doesnt because it's a glancing blow.....

of course fades and slices are due to the clubface at impact, but the swing path plays a major role... if the face is square but you are to in to out its a push....if you are to out to in its a pull....

I bet you dont even have a shop...your little shed doesnt count and the 40 guys you know are all family....so everything you say with a grain of salt i guess

maybe the fade isnt worth a sh.it then because tour players dont seem to hit that many fairways....and fairways are only getting harder and harder for the pros...for the rest of us we can only expect about 12 yards of roll as compared to the pros and their 30...and our fairways are a bit larger than theres....EVER HEARD OF A COURSE SETTING UP FOR A TOURNAMENT?????? DUMBA.SS

AGAIN GENIUS... i never said that the swing path was harder to achieve just that overreleasing of the club through IMPACT was harder than underreleasing through IMPACT

DAVID LEADBETTER just put in the latest golf digest that to cure a slice you should just hook the clubface...THAT'S THE WORST ADVICE EVER. No to cure a slice you should start with a proper grip and then work on the proper swing mechanics.....ONE OF THE GREATEST TEACHERS OF ALL TIMES... he has done wonders for ernie els and michelle wie....

again...TOUR PLAYERS comprise a whopping 1% OF ALL GOLFERS...so you and I should definitely hit the shots they are hitting....even though we dont play the same courses they do...

they hit fades because they are going to get 30 yards of roll with it...that means like 50 with a draw...that may be hard to guide down a fairway...but the 12 we get isnt that hard to keep in play...BUT THANKS FOR PLAYING...YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE...GO HOME TO MOMMY, THIS IS FOR BIG KIDS.


sorry if I come across a little rude... I DON'T LIKE STUPID PEOPLE...so penguin is definitely out of the picture....

for whoever said i have an out to in swing path...no...quite the opposite...I FIGHT THE HOOK....I'm in that 35 percentile..LOL

[LyleG]

This is my last post to you on the subject. I am doubting you have the capability to comprehend what I am saying, but here goes.

You say the ball is staying on the clubface for a full second.
This is again completely wrong. The balls stays on the club face for a fraction of a second.

Again with the glancing blow thing.

Let me explain this to you. When you slice it is the result of an open clubface at impact. When the clubface is open the loft increases. This is why fades go higher and land softer. It is also why the fly shorter distances. The exact opposite happens with a closed club face. When you open or close the club face 1*, the amount of effective loft increases or decreases exactly 1* as well. This is again why the draw will go further, fly lower and roll more.

Are you getting any of this?

As for my shop. There are plenty of pics up on shot talk of it. Its a full service shop. I do everything from custom fit, building custom clubs, loft/lie bending, reshafting, repairs, to custom wedge and iron grinds.

I dont read golf digest since it is geared to people who know nothing about the equipment they are buying.

Tour players comprise no where near 1% of golfers.
Tour fairways arent the only ones that have gotten harder in recent years. Most country clubs tend to follow tour type trends as their membership expects tour like conditions.

So, I end with this. If you dont like stupid people, stop acting and sounding like one.

[Omen2]

if you take the time to read for comprehension...i said the second before impact not that the ball stays on for a second....

i dont need you to explain whats going on, I KNOW

we are talking about which is harder to hit the slice or the hook...THE ANSWER IS HOOK

there are no public courses that play the same as tour venues...why the course would die within a week or two...the grass would all burn up and the course would die...they lose holes quite often after a tour comes through.

so WRONG AGAIN...there is no way any club that's got every day play can keep it manicured and dried to the level it is when a tour stop comes through

so one more time and you can put this in your book I dont care who tells you different, you tell them Omen said: " EVERY AMATEUR WILL BENEFIT FROM HITTING DRAWS WITH THEIR LONG IRONS AND WOODS!" end of story......

[poe4soul]

This is all well and good but playing a round to the swing you bring that day is not giving into a swing flaw. Swing thoughts during my round will usually result in fades becoming snap hooks because I am trying to compensate. This is what I also read into Kiwi’s statement. The first few holes he was trying to make a shot shape. The rest of the round he used the swing he brought that day. I understand how to setup and understand the relationship of stance to swing path. From my impressions of Kiwi’s abilities he understands this point as well. If I know my natural shot is straight to a slight fade why not play that shot, even if it is for the moment?

What I’ve found is trying to think about my swing will result in bad swings. Usually I will take a couple of practice swings concentrating on the feel of a release if I’m blocking on the course. But, when I approach the ball I try not to think about the mechanical aspect of the swing just the feeling. I pick a target, visualize the shot shape and let my swing do the rest. Some days I’m one other’s I’m not but I leave adjustments for practice/lessons. The most I will do to quit a fade in the round is to close my stance a bit for shots where a fade is trouble.

Personally I try to strive for a straight shot. I figure if I can hit it straight with a little adjustment in with my stance, grip, or club face I and induce a fade or draw. I just perfere to leave the swing adjustments for the range.

[SeldomInTheSlot]

Omen - You were the one who sai you had an out-to-in swing path. This is copied and pasted from your 1st post in this thread:

...in fact the only clubs i will try to work are the mid and long irons....generallys speaking i dont try to move the ball much with an 8 or 9 iron....and almost never with a wedge....the 8or 9 if i am going to move it it will be right to left, but i do have an out to in swing path so it's a bit easier for me to move a ball left than right

I guess it was a typo and you meant an in-to-out swing.


The way I understand it, both clubface angle and swing path determine where the ball is going to fly. An out-to-in swing by a right handed golfer will cause the clubhead to be traveling from right to left through the hitting zone where the ball is, and this imparts a clockwise spin on the ball resulting in a slice. An open clubface will compound the problem and have you looking in the forest for your ball. Is this not correct?

[Omen2]

you are exactly right...it was indeed a typo...my swing is in to out, just barely thanks to a lesson, but still in to out....

[Kiwi Player]

Kiwi - I just accepted the fact that I was going to fade or slice my drives for many years. The biggest problem with that was that I was giving up distance off the tee by hitting weak fades with little roll instead of straight or draw shots that tend to be hotter off the clubface and roll further. Also, some holes don't allow for you to fade a driver off the tee even though you know you'll need driver distance to have any chance of reaching the green in regulation. I figured that it would help me be a better golfer if I learned how to hit a draw, so last spring I practiced drawing the ball a lot.

My slicing problem was mostly caused by an out-to-in swing path as opposed to an open clubface, and one huge tip really helped me with that almost immediately. At address try lining up square to your target line as you would normally, but instead of thinking about hitting the ball straight down the line, imagine you are trying to hit the ball about 30 degrees to the right (for a righty) of the target line. In order to do this you need to try to strike the inside rear quadrant of the ball as opposed to the very back part of the ball. These thoughts help me to swing the club at the ball from inside the line, which is one way to hit a draw or at least straighten a slice. If you close your stance slightly at address that will also help promote an inside approach and increase the draw effect. I will also warm up on the range by hitting a few easy drives with a severely closed stance because that helps me get the feeling of a proper release. With a little practice I have been able to cut down my percentage of banana balls dramatically.

Hope this helps some. It worked for me.

p.s. Hi everybody. I'm back after a long layoff from GR and the game. I haven't been able to play since early July because I hurt my back again, but now I'm feeling good and can't wait for some nice weather. Chatting about golf is depressing if you know you can't play, thus the GR break.

SITSlot - thanks for that advice. I will try that at the range. I normally try to hit it straight but I didn't feel like I was losing much distance when hitting fades off the tee. But regardless of whether I was losing distance it was just great to be shooting at the green from the fairway with my second shot. I certainly notice the loss of distance when I hit a banana ball.

Glad to hear you are over your injury and looking forward to playing.

[Kiwi Player]

Thanks for all the replies and the constructive comments.

A few of you have commented that you always strive to hit a straight ball - which is what I usually do too - but I read an article saying that if you aim left or right with a fade or draw you give yourself a better chance of hitting the fairway because you have the whole fairway to work with. If you aim for the middle of the fairway and mis left or right you only have half the fairway to work with and consequently have more chance of missing the fairway and finding the rough or worse.

Seems to make sense if you can hit a fade/draw is consistently?

[enduro]

Its funny but last time I checked out this forum Lyle and Omen were arguiing too. LOL
Has anyone been keeping track of how many times Omen has called Lyle a phuqtard and lyle has called Omen an idiot ?

Seriously though if you cant hit a controlled fade you're limiting your options. I bet Tiger hit a fade on almost every drive when he won the British open in 06. On other courses he'll hit more draws if thats what the shot calls for..

Lee Trevino won numerous majors hitting a fade almost exclusively. As Lee put it..."you can talk to a slice but a hook just won't listen"

I fought a bad hook a few years back. At .my worst I was probably hitting a 50 yard hook(or more) on every drive . Sure I'd get lots or roll , but on any dogleg left or crosswind I knew I was screwed. . And hooked irons just dont hold on greens. Probably cost me a half dozen shots per round. I still cant fade consistently but taming a hook has sure helped

I agree with Omen that any slicer would benefit from .learning how to hit a draw .

[wwjdwithca]

The question initiated by this thread is really a good question. Some of the input is excellent, even by Omen except for all of the cursing and name-calling. Why is this not moderated? Not to mention he's completely wrong!

Tiger himself says that the modern day power fade is just as long as a draw cause it stays in the air longer. I guess he doesn't know anything either. Paul Azinger says it's better to play a slight fade or draw cause you use the whole fairway, where he plays a straight shot and only gets half the fairway to deal with his misses. He doesn't know anything as well. Then there's VJ who's the best player to every play over 40 years of age, and he almost exclusively hits a high fade.....even on dog-leg lefts. Again, he doesn't know what he's doing cause he's only won one tournament this year. Phil Mickelson finally won the Masters by playing to his natural fade. What a retard!

Furthermore, 80% of the woman on the LPGA tour play a draw, with women it's their more natural shot. The ones that hit a high fade say that it gives them a natural advantage over their competitors because it allows them to land shots on the green more softly, and work the dog-leg rights better....which most courses have more dog-leg rights than they do lefts.

Your total argument lies in the fact that most men naturally hit a fade/slice, so a draw/hook must be better. This is obviously quite inaccurate. There is such a thing as controlled slice. There is NO SUCH THING as a controlled hook. I know many people who hit a natural fade 260-270 yards. When the open-up and slice the ball it still goes 230-240 yards, and goes 30-40 yards right. I also know many people who hit a draw, and when they hook it the ball goes like a 150 yards out, and 100 yards left! I've NEVER seen that happen with a slice. EVER!

My answer to the original question is that I don't believe that you have a swing flaw if most of the time you hit a fade (5-15 yards) and not a slice, and you are still getting good distance (250 yards). Most guys don't like a fade because of EGO, not because of any real affect on the golf course.

[golfaholic]

JS hits a draw

JS

[Omen2]

yeah..tigers wrong...the power fade doesnt go anywhere near as far as the power draw.....

how do you figure that the draw is a natural shot shape for women...YOUR WRONG
the fade is the natural shot shape for all golfers. We have to learn to hit the draw...the fade is automatic....

i don't know about any of you but i have never had a problem getting a draw to hold a green...a hook sure but not a draw...in fact my 6 iron draws have been known to come back a foot or so....so anyone who says that you should hit a fade to hold a green is a HACKER who cant hit a draw correctly.

I play the draw because i know that the only time tiger hits the ball right is when he is hitting to a tucked pin or he comes out of his swing too early....as evident by all of his shots at the buick.

so good luck to all the HACKS that cant hit a draw.

[poe4soul]

It's amazing how you know more about power draws vs power fades than anyone else including PGA pro's.

I'll bet your 9.5* is too high of a launch angle also. You should look at a 6* or 7* driver so you can hit low screaming draws with tons of roll.

I'm sure glad we have experts like yourself to set all of us straight.

[Omen2]

you are right... my 9.5 is way too high
in fact i can hit it off the ground higher than you can a three wood...you guys can jump on the tiger di.ck and praise everyword out of his mouth but for me i like the good old physics....notice how tiger's the only one thats ever said a fade goes farther than a draw....

good he may be but smart him is not....

you guys are lucky i dont charge to set you straight...

[bjdrivers]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but I did read somewhere that the Remax Long Drive winners all played fades. I'm quite sure Jason Zuback does. I'll see if I can find the info online about it. If anything, I would think a perfectly straight drive would go the farthest.

[Steelman]

I tend to just try to hit a slight high draw with my driver simply because that's my natural trajectory with my swing. I can move it left to right if need be if the hole requires it but that's usually only once or twice in any given round. I think the best thing to do is find the shape that fits your swing and gives you decent distance.

[wwjdwithca]

how do you figure that the draw is a natural shot shape for women...YOUR WRONG
the fade is the natural shot shape for all golfers. We have to learn to hit the draw...the fade is automatic.....

"The fade is the natural shot shape for all golfers" I have a friend who just picked up playing golf at the age of 50. He's been playing for two years. I was in his group when he played his 2nd round ever on a course. He hit a draw. He's been taking lessons and working hard on his game, and he can barely break 100....when he's lucky, and he has just as much problem hitting duck hooks as others hitting slices when their natural shot shape is a fade.

I have another friend who's index is very close to mine. He hits a draw on all his clubs except his driver, which he hits fairly straight. According to your rule, he's got a better game. Truth is I am much more consistent, and I hit the ball farther, and YES, he has trouble holding greens when I don't. If you don't understand that a fade lands softer than a draw...........I give up!

[Montywithoutthebelly]

This simply isnt true. I am willing to bet David Duval would back me up on this as well.

Me too!!! Reckon you've never heard the old saying "you can talk to fade...."

I can do a 360 round my body when my hands get overactive.