2 iron, anyone?

[ironman]

anyone play with a 2 iron in their bag (for those of that never take a Mulligan, know what I mean..real golf players). What's your Index you've been playing to? When do you use it?

I've been using mine for tee shots and "hard low chips" (whatever the proper golf term that is) to fly the ball under branches. Now that it's swing is coming along on the driving range, I'll play a few rounds with it

my 5-wood, 20.5*, goes further than my 3 iron, so I'm making room for it by replacing my 5 wood, a 975F.

[CPS]

I've pretty much used one since high school days (20 years ago) before the age of hybrids or 7-woods. I'm at a 8.5 Index with teeing off and putting the strengths of my game (all the stuff in between is still average). The course I usually play I go 9 drivers, 3 4-woods and 2 2-irons on a usual day from the back tees. I do the low punches I think you are talking about. I've also used it to bump and run via a putting stroke. You don't see too many around these days because of hybrids. Hybrids are fine but I tried them and still like the 2-iron. A modern CB 2-iron isn't all that much harder to get in the air than a hybrid. I'm all for keeping the 2-iron from going extinct...

[Not a hacker]

I think the problem is the rule for 14 clubs. It's pretty hard to justify keeping the 2 iron in the bag when there are so many other options. I struggle with my wedges so I carry 3 (p,a,s) or sometimes a lob as well. That only leaves room for a 2iron/hybrid or 5 wood, not both. I find the 5 wood is easier to hit, is longer and stops quicker on the green. It's also great for longish shots out of the rough. I noticed at the Open alot of the pro's were carrying 2 irons but I think that had more to do with links golf, where the low ball flight of the 2 iron is the preferred option. I think on the PGA tour there are alot more hybrids and 5 woods and not as many 2 irons.

[SDB1]

I found the need for a 2 iron distance club about six months ago and went to see my local clubfitter about my options. Now, I've tried a few hybrids but never really payed too much attention to them. I told my fitter that I needed a 230-240 club and was looking into a 2 iron. He said, "why don't you try a hybrid?"

I proceeded to make a few swings with two different 19 degree hybrids on his monitor. Both were giving me the distance I needed but one just felt more solid than the other. I purchased it and haven't looked back! My first two rounds after I put in a couple of range sessions I scored easily some of my best rounds ever. I never took the driver out of the back and was center fairway on almost every hole. It was like cheating! I've since also replaced my three iron and have gained consistency and get a higher trajectory from the hybrid. 215-240 yard par threes are now easily overcome where as before it was more like swing and hope I pure it in order to have a chance at par or better.

[TmacG]

I carry a 2 iron in my bag, mainly for use off the tee, and punch shots. I love the way a traditional iron feels and the capability to work the ball. With the new hybrids I find that it takes that away from you. Im looking at a 17* driving iron type of thing.

TmacG

[awskeetskeetskeetskeet]

hybrids are for f-ing *****s. long live the 2 iron!

[pingman360]

i had a 2i in the bag for a while but the launch angle is so much beter on the hybrid its inda a no brainer...

[Dyna]

Just picked up a used TM supersteel burner 2 iron, seemed to hit it pretty well at the range, havent had it on a course yet. I find that the more I play the more I prefer the look & feel of traditional irons over the hybrids.

I am still learning the game since taking a 14 yr break...I wasn't any good to begin with..but my scores & shots are improving. Right now I am in between 43-53 for 9 holes, sure that sucks but's 15-20 strokes better than what I started with 3-4 months ago.

[TmacG]

hybrids are for f-ing *****s. long live the 2 iron!

coming from someone that doesnt carry a two iron that means a lot. Just because you cant handle a mans club. all your posts are pointless.

TmacG

[metalslime]

I carry 2 iron in my bag; Mizuno MP30.
I've tried numerous hybrids. I find it difficult to come up with my personal perfect combination with my driver and iron set. I do not want to change my swing just because of "a club" in my set; a hybrid. Conclusion ended up getting a 2-iron of the same kind of my iron set; MP30. I use it more often than 3 wood; on the tee and deck, punch...etc.

[Belly]

2 irons are for wussies. Be a real man and carry a 1 iron!

[DENNIS7180GOLF]

i used to carry a 1 iron bent 4* strong but hitting 300 off the deck just wasnt for me.
now i have a 2 iron hybrid,much nicer.

[dorkman53]

People capable of hitting a 2 iron better than a 5 wood or 2 hybrid are rare. People who carry a 2 iron because it seems like a macho thing to do are relatively common. People who play a 2 iron even though they can honestly hit a hybrid better but won't admit it to themselves are probably relatively common, too.

I carry a 2 hybrid. My index varies from 9-12, depending on how much I play.

My buddies have a wide range of abilities, from single digit indexers to improving hackers. None of the single digit players uses anything but a hybrid for the long clubs, because they are secure, mature, highly intelligent individuals. I broke the hybrid barrier in our group several years ago. I was first considered a bit odd, but every one of them has eventually come around to carrying hybrids eventually.

[collegegolfer]

I just put a 2 iron in my bag today. I had 15 clubs (left the 3 wood in too) and I noticed it goes not much farther than my 3 iron and quite a bit shorter than my 3 wood. It's out of my bag right now and won't be in it when I play tomorrow. I have a gap in my upper clubs...driver, 14* 3 wood, then 3 iron...normally I don't need a club in that gap but on some par 5's I kind of miss having something between a 3 wood (about 250-260 yard club) and 3 iron (about 220 yard club). But, I'd rather have the 3 wedges than the longer clubs. Sometimes I think it's about a toss up.

[dorkman53]

I just put a 2 iron in my bag today. I had 15 clubs (left the 3 wood in too) and I noticed it goes not much farther than my 3 iron and quite a bit shorter than my 3 wood. It's out of my bag right now and won't be in it when I play tomorrow. I have a gap in my upper clubs...driver, 14* 3 wood, then 3 iron...normally I don't need a club in that gap but on some par 5's I kind of miss having something between a 3 wood (about 250-260 yard club) and 3 iron (about 220 yard club). But, I'd rather have the 3 wedges than the longer clubs. Sometimes I think it's about a toss up.

Why limit yourself to a mere 15 clubs? Why not put in a 1 iron and 4 wedges, to cover all the bases?......


Seriously, though, it takes some pretty impressive clubhead speed to get enough spin on the ball to get any carry with a 2 iron or a "strong" 13 degree 3 wood. The vast majority of people can't hit those clubs with enough clubhead speed to get any carry and to have any control over the ball. Usually, shots with those clubs end up very low and lose distance vs. a more lofted club. Anyone who can actually hit a very low lofted club consistently well has my genuine admiration, but these people are far less common than the wannabes who use them because they are trying to project an image.

[Omen2]

20.5* 5 wood... WTF is that a La Jolla??? geez you hacker ... you might want to get the bobby jones signature series....

sincerly Omen

[pingman360]

I just put a 2 iron in my bag today. I had 15 clubs (left the 3 wood in too) and I noticed it goes not much farther than my 3 iron and quite a bit shorter than my 3 wood. It's out of my bag right now and won't be in it when I play tomorrow. I have a gap in my upper clubs...driver, 14* 3 wood, then 3 iron...normally I don't need a club in that gap but on some par 5's I kind of miss having something between a 3 wood (about 250-260 yard club) and 3 iron (about 220 yard club). But, I'd rather have the 3 wedges than the longer clubs. Sometimes I think it's about a toss up.

yea i would agree... you use the wedges more than you would a 2i so i would much rather have the wedges instead just seems more valuable...

[Brock]

no 2 iron but contemplated one for years for those times I cant hit my driver as I usually swing my 3iron pretty good....just never got the balls to get one and then dump one of my other clubs that I never hit like the 4iron

[Not a hacker]

I think one of the reasons alot of people have trouble with the 2 iron is that they are usually fitted with the wrong shaft. Stiff shafts in anything longer than 5 irons are hard to handle and get in the air. If the same people who bag long irons tried putting a lower kickpoint shaft in they might be pleasnatly surprised with the results.

I personally like the 5 wood for reasons mentioned earlier, mostly the versatility and playability from the rough, but a properly fitted 2 iron is still a viable option for a player, and much better than a girly hybrid.

Any wuss who has hybrids instead of long irons should go all the way and start using precept 'lady's' and hitting from the womens tees.

[amer1cangolfer]

I think one of the reasons alot of people have trouble with the 2 iron is that they are usually fitted with the wrong shaft. Stiff shafts in anything longer than 5 irons are hard to handle and get in the air. If the same people who bag long irons tried putting a lower kickpoint shaft in they might be pleasnatly surprised with the results.

I personally like the 5 wood for reasons mentioned earlier, mostly the versatility and playability from the rough, but a properly fitted 2 iron is still a viable option for a player, and much better than a girly hybrid.

Any wuss who has hybrids instead of long irons should go all the way and start using precept 'lady's' and hitting from the womens tees.

oooooooh, that's gonna get some nice responses!!!!!

[dorkman53]

I think one of the reasons alot of people have trouble with the 2 iron is that they are usually fitted with the wrong shaft. Stiff shafts in anything longer than 5 irons are hard to handle and get in the air. If the same people who bag long irons tried putting a lower kickpoint shaft in they might be pleasnatly surprised with the results.

I personally like the 5 wood for reasons mentioned earlier, mostly the versatility and playability from the rough, but a properly fitted 2 iron is still a viable option for a player, and much better than a girly hybrid.

Any wuss who has hybrids instead of long irons should go all the way and start using precept 'lady's' and hitting from the womens tees.

You just made my insecurity point for me. LOTS of PGA pros and Champion's Tour Pros play hybrids. But then you're a better player than they are, aren't you? Or do you just know more about golf than credentialed pros?

[Not a hacker]

You just made my insecurity point for me. LOTS of PGA pros and Champion's Tour Pros play hybrids. But then you're a better player than they are, aren't you? Or do you just know more about golf than credentialed pros?

You can't blame the Champions Tour guys for using hybrids. There are almost as many hybrids on their tour as magnetic bracelets and colostamy bags, I suppose you use them too? If you don't already have a bag you could definitely use one, attached to your mouth!

The only PGA pro's who use hybrids are the runts with no clubhead speed who need help getting the ball in the air with the longer clubs. You won't see one in Tiger's bag, or any other of the big boys.

[dorkman53]

You can't blame the Champions Tour guys for using hybrids. There are almost as many hybrids on their tour as magnetic bracelets and colostamy bags, I suppose you use them too? If you don't already have a bag you could definitely use one, attached to your mouth!

The only PGA pro's who use hybrids are the runts with no clubhead speed who need help getting the ball in the air with the longer clubs. You won't see one in Tiger's bag, or any other of the big boys.

So you are therefore equating yourself with Tiger, Vijay, or Ernie, not one of the lesser slouches who have never won a major?

Have you ever actually attended a PGA event? Even an average, middle of the pack PGA player is performing at a level orders of magnitude better than you or anyone else on this board. I dare say that an average LPGA player could outperform 99.9% of people on this board. The Champion's Tour is nearly on the same level as the PGA Tour; some players go back and forth between the two.

Anyone who denigrates the skills of any of the professionals at any level simply reveals their own ignorance of reality. Assuming you are serious, you are seriously deluded and your ignorance is simply laughable. If you are trying to troll and flame, you aren't being particularly witty or clever.

[lorenzoinoc]

If you're not a 4 or better, don't talk to me about 2 irons. Your insecurities about your manhood outweigh your intelligence.

[neverman]

Phil uses one... I think he's won a major or two. Then again, he's a San Diego wussy with man-teets.

[dorkman53]

Phil uses one... I think he's won a major or two. Then again, he's a San Diego wussy with man-teets.

So if Phil and Tiger use a 2 iron, it MUST be a good club for me.....

[Horseballs]

I'm desperately trying to look as macho as possible out on the golf course. This includes both gear and attire. I've got my visor and blade irons so I'm all set to go. I know I should be playing a 2 iron, but I have a question about hybrids vs. 5 woods.
Which is more manly? I mean a hybrid is something in between a wood and an iron. Wouldn't that make it more manly than a full-out wood? It's very confusing...

[pagolf92]

Some of the best players at my club don't carry much higher than a 3 iron. One is a +3 handicap (retired PING rep) and he carries 3-pw and an Adams Pro 2 iron hybrid. The other is a +4 and he carries 4-pw, 3 iron hybrid and a 5 wood. Those of you who think a 2 iron is better for your game, you are dead wrong. Unless you have a 115+ mph swing speed and a hybrid would balloon (which I'm sure 75% of you would claim, but maybe 2-3% actually do) you should keep the 2 iron if you have decent control.

[DENNIS7180GOLF]

You can't blame the Champions Tour guys for using hybrids. There are almost as many hybrids on their tour as magnetic bracelets and colostamy bags, I suppose you use them too? If you don't already have a bag you could definitely use one, attached to your mouth!

The only PGA pro's who use hybrids are the runts with no clubhead speed who need help getting the ball in the air with the longer clubs. You won't see one in Tiger's bag, or any other of the big boys.

so i guess phil and jim f. are both runts? oh yeah they are # 2 and 3 in the WORLD moron.
anyway nice call on the hybrids.

[Horseballs]

You can't blame the Champions Tour guys for using hybrids. There are almost as many hybrids on their tour as magnetic bracelets and colostamy bags, I suppose you use them too? If you don't already have a bag you could definitely use one, attached to your mouth!

The only PGA pro's who use hybrids are the runts with no clubhead speed who need help getting the ball in the air with the longer clubs. You won't see one in Tiger's bag, or any other of the big boys.

Says the guy playing super GI irons. I heard the worst part about playing MX20's is having to tell your father you're gay. True?

[Not a hacker]

Says the guy playing super GI irons. I heard the worst part about playing MX20's is having to tell your father you're gay. True?

People in glass houses.

Do we really need to drag out the photos (which I note you have removed from the forum) of the cargo shorts with flying eblow again? Not to mention the village people moustache and the limp wristed putting stroke.

In any case, MX20's were used on tour in their day. They're a top quality forged, non offset players cavity back.

[pingman360]

Some of the best players at my club don't carry much higher than a 3 iron. One is a +3 handicap (retired PING rep) and he carries 3-pw and an Adams Pro 2 iron hybrid. The other is a +4 and he carries 4-pw, 3 iron hybrid and a 5 wood. Those of you who think a 2 iron is better for your game, you are dead wrong. Unless you have a 115+ mph swing speed and a hybrid would balloon (which I'm sure 75% of you would claim, but maybe 2-3% actually do) you should keep the 2 iron if you have decent control.

and even people with a 115mph ss can hit a hybrid w/o it ballooning... the key is the right shaft...

[amer1cangolfer]

i told you that you were in for it with that comment, not a hacker!!!!!

btw, golf digest (in the 07 hot list issue, i think) says that tiger has demoed several hybrids. he just doesn't play one because he can still smoke his two. it'll be in his bag in another few years, once they make one that fits his exact expectations (like the tw wedge) and when he gets a little older. he's even said that as he gets older, he'll get to the point where he won't be able to scorch the deuce like he can now and it'll be time to start changing things up.

[QueenCityGolfer]

It all depends on your needs.

I considered buying a 2 iron because it would fill in a yardage gap. I don't have a 210-215 yard club in my bag, and I would personally feel more confident in a 2 iron from that distance than I would a hybrid club.

Accuracy isn't the issue, length, and flight are the issues...for me.

Most hyrbids offered with steel shafts, are too heavy to be effective. They rarely ever produce the distances that their lofts or iron number designations would seem to indicate. I had a 585.H w/steel shaft, which was supposed to be a 2 iron replacement, and I hit my 3 iron farther than I did it. It was a useless product unless you had a 130 mph swing speed.

On the other side, most graphite shafted hybrids are too much longer than the irons they are built to replace. In order for me, personally, to find a 210-215 yard hybrid club, it would need to be like a 4 iron replacement. All that is going to do put me higher up in the air to where the wind will have a greater effect on the ball...a ball which already has a higher spin rate than any standard iron would have placed on it. Whenever the wind is blowing, using it off the tee would be pointless. Isn't that like half of the whole purpose of the club?

If I had a 2 iron with say, a Dynamic Gold Lite shaft installed, it would be much lighter than a comparable steel shafted hybrid, so I would most likely hit it farther than said hybrid, and because it has less loft than a 25 degree hyrbid with a graphite shaft, and puts a lot less spin on the ball, I could keep the ball on a much lower and controllable trajectory, which becomes even more of an asset in the wind from off the tee.

Jim Furyk and Phil Mickelson can probably hit their 6 iron 215 yards. We don't have the same problems. A hyrbid might be perfect for them. They are probably looking for a 240-250 yard club. For me, that's a 3 wood. Furthermore, they are great players, so they would suffer none of the drawbacks that I would. The wind is not going to have much effect on their shots at all. I'm not that good.

The hybrid club is not simply a short-cut for hackers. They might be easier to hit, but they are no easier to use effectively, than any other club in your bag. You still have to make a swing.

[Omen2]

hybrids are for pu.ssies... and they are way more gay than an all out wood....

me being the pi.mp that i am i can pretty much spin a 2 iron chip shot ... so it's a no brainer when you got these kind of skills.

[dorkman53]

Accuracy isn't the issue, length, and flight are the issues...for me.

I can't believe I am reading this. Do you choose a wedge based on how far it hits, or how accurately it hits? Why should a hybrid be any different??!!
Accuracy is FAR more important than absolute distance. You can always adjust distance by choice of lofts and shafts. A long club without accuracy is.....well......like John Daly on a bad day.

[Kiwi Player]

i told you that you were in for it with that comment, not a hacker!!!!!

btw, golf digest (in the 07 hot list issue, i think) says that tiger has demoed several hybrids. he just doesn't play one because he can still smoke his two. it'll be in his bag in another few years, once they make one that fits his exact expectations (like the tw wedge) and when he gets a little older. he's even said that as he gets older, he'll get to the point where he won't be able to scorch the deuce like he can now and it'll be time to start changing things up.

I read an interview where Tiger was asked if he has tried a hybrid and he said "Yes definitely". He said he just can't find one that he can keep low enough. I find that strange as I would have thought that a 19* 5 wood would hit as high or higher than a 19* hybrid?

But what would I know ...?

[bjdrivers]

Never had the need for a deuce myself.

[CPS]

I rarely see anyone with something in the bag just there to impress. Maybe for a few weeks, but then the person will want to actually score and trade in to something they can actually hit. The same goes for someone who carries a 2-iron. No one is going to carry a 2-iron in the bag for any length of time if it only flies 3 feet above the ground. It’s called natural selection. This hybrid craze is bordering on religion in how passionate players are about “converting” long irons to hybrids. Sorry I remain cynical for many reasons:

a) I had a hybrid in the bag for a year or so and gave it a go and figured out it wasn’t for my game. It’s about results.
b) Hybrids are designed to help get the ball up in the air easier… kind of like shovels. So if you like making fun of someone else’s shovels and have a hybrid in your bag you are a hypocrite supreme.
c) The players with good conditioning and powerful swings alternate between 2-irons and 5-woods depending on course condition… no hybrids needed. Yes we are not the best players but shouldn’t we at least be trying the tools of the trade of the very best? Golf is not a bicycle… training wheels won’t help you learn.
d) The 220-yard approach shot is a hard golf shot, regardless of what you play… it is not a high % shot and you see hybrids miss firing just as much as anything else. In fact, according to physics, the 2-iron is the best bet because it is the shortest shaft (also in steel) of the choices for that distance.
e) They say you hit a hybrid like you hit an iron. How? The shaft length of the hybrid is typically 2 inches longer than the matching iron. Again… the laws of physics, you can’t possibly use the same swing (or be as accurate) with a shaft 2 inches longer.
f) An index rating means nothing to what is in your bag. A skilled player can shoot even par using 9 clubs (fairway wood, 5-PW, SW, putter)… the other 5 clubs you pick are a personal and subjective choice.
g) Having played in the era 20 years ago versus now… I see no clear result that hybrids are making anyone’s game better. The hybrids are spraying all over the place just like any other distance club.
h) Hybrids mean more money for golf manufacturers. You start replacing irons you paid for with hybrids that cost more. Sweet deal for them!

I’m not knocking what people use in their bag… use whatever you like. Just don’t come after me for using something I’ve been comfortable with for a long time.

[bjdrivers]

Good points there CPS. People should play whatever their game needs. I like to evenly fill the gaps in my yardages. I carry 4 wedges, so I try to fill the gap between my long irons & fairway wood. I carry a strong 3 wood and it's very long, so there is a wide gap there. I only carry 4-PW since I carry a gap wedge as well. No way would I not carry a 52* wedge. I use that thing a lot. It's perfect for bump/runs uphill, long bunker shots, and full shots from 100-110 out. When it comes to the 2 iron/hybrid/5 wood yardages, I've used all 3 in the past. I normally would carry a 5 wood. I really like the 503.H because it is very simple to work a draw or fade off the tee. Moreso than a 5 wood. A 2 iron is very easy to work as well, but I get more distance with the .H.

True, the 503.H is more forgiving than the 2 iron on mis-hits which is a plus, but's not the deciding factor for me. I VERY VERY RARELY have a distance of 215-230 range into a green. So, what the deciding factor for me is, what club do I want off the tee on the short, tight par 4s or really long par 3s. The .H is longer, a little more forgiving, and very controllable, so that's what I go with.

Most hybrids on the market are big and clunky looking, part wood part iron. The 503.H is more or less a driving iron, which is exactly what I use it for.

Titleist's description:

503.H Utility Iron
The 503.H utility iron is designed to provide serious golfers with a long game yardage and trajectory solution. The innovative design and construction provides a more manageable trajectory versus a high loft fairway for higher ball speed players and a more playable trajectory versus a long iron for low launch and slower ball speed players. The 503.H launches lower and spins less than a comparable loft fairway metal for better shot and trajectory control. The 503.H is 1.0'' to 2.0'' shorter than a comparable loft fairway metal for better shot control and trajectory management (easier down). The 503.H launches higher and spins more than a comparable loft conventional long iron providing increased ball speed. When combined with the higher more playable trajectory this greatly improves long game yardage gaps.

[dorkman53]

I rarely see anyone with something in the bag just there to impress. Maybe for a few weeks, but then the person will want to actually score and trade in to something they can actually hit. The same goes for someone who carries a 2-iron. No one is going to carry a 2-iron in the bag for any length of time if it only flies 3 feet above the ground. It’s called natural selection. This hybrid craze is bordering on religion in how passionate players are about “converting” long irons to hybrids. Sorry I remain cynical for many reasons:

a) I had a hybrid in the bag for a year or so and gave it a go and figured out it wasn’t for my game. It’s about results.
b) Hybrids are designed to help get the ball up in the air easier… kind of like shovels. So if you like making fun of someone else’s shovels and have a hybrid in your bag you are a hypocrite supreme.
c) The players with good conditioning and powerful swings alternate between 2-irons and 5-woods depending on course condition… no hybrids needed. Yes we are not the best players but shouldn’t we at least be trying the tools of the trade of the very best? Golf is not a bicycle… training wheels won’t help you learn.
d) The 220-yard approach shot is a hard golf shot, regardless of what you play… it is not a high % shot and you see hybrids miss firing just as much as anything else. In fact, according to physics, the 2-iron is the best bet because it is the shortest shaft (also in steel) of the choices for that distance.
e) They say you hit a hybrid like you hit an iron. How? The shaft length of the hybrid is typically 2 inches longer than the matching iron. Again… the laws of physics, you can’t possibly use the same swing (or be as accurate) with a shaft 2 inches longer.
f) An index rating means nothing to what is in your bag. A skilled player can shoot even par using 9 clubs (fairway wood, 5-PW, SW, putter)… the other 5 clubs you pick are a personal and subjective choice.
g) Having played in the era 20 years ago versus now… I see no clear result that hybrids are making anyone’s game better. The hybrids are spraying all over the place just like any other distance club.
h) Hybrids mean more money for golf manufacturers. You start replacing irons you paid for with hybrids that cost more. Sweet deal for them!

I’m not knocking what people use in their bag… use whatever you like. Just don’t come after me for using something I’ve been comfortable with for a long time.

Well said. To capsulize your opinion and mine, "Do what works in your hands, and don't criticize someone else for having a different opinion."

The only point in which I would disagrees is that I HAVE seen people with 3 irons in their bag that they keep, even though they clearly don't hit the club very well. Why? Ego or ignorance.
I have a good buddy who plays a 3 iron quite well. He's tried hybrids and doesn't prefer them. More power to him. Almost everybody else I play with has eventually made the switch to hybrids. They range from single digit to 20+ indexers.

[twotime]

I took the 2 iron out of my bag when I put the 1 iron in.

[pingman360]

Good points there CPS. People should play whatever their game needs. I like to evenly fill the gaps in my yardages. I carry 4 wedges, so I try to fill the gap between my long irons & fairway wood. I carry a strong 3 wood and it's very long, so there is a wide gap there. I only carry 4-PW since I carry a gap wedge as well. No way would I not carry a 52* wedge. I use that thing a lot. It's perfect for bump/runs uphill, long bunker shots, and full shots from 100-110 out. When it comes to the 2 iron/hybrid/5 wood yardages, I've used all 3 in the past. I normally would carry a 5 wood. I really like the 503.H because it is very simple to work a draw or fade off the tee. Moreso than a 5 wood. A 2 iron is very easy to work as well, but I get more distance with the .H.

True, the 503.H is more forgiving than the 2 iron on mis-hits which is a plus, but's not the deciding factor for me. I VERY VERY RARELY have a distance of 215-230 range into a green. So, what the deciding factor for me is, what club do I want off the tee on the short, tight par 4s or really long par 3s. The .H is longer, a little more forgiving, and very controllable, so that's what I go with.

Most hybrids on the market are big and clunky looking, part wood part iron. The 503.H is more or less a driving iron, which is exactly what I use it for.

Titleist's description:

503.H Utility Iron
The 503.H utility iron is designed to provide serious golfers with a long game yardage and trajectory solution. The innovative design and construction provides a more manageable trajectory versus a high loft fairway for higher ball speed players and a more playable trajectory versus a long iron for low launch and slower ball speed players. The 503.H launches lower and spins less than a comparable loft fairway metal for better shot and trajectory control. The 503.H is 1.0'' to 2.0'' shorter than a comparable loft fairway metal for better shot control and trajectory management (easier down). The 503.H launches higher and spins more than a comparable loft conventional long iron providing increased ball speed. When combined with the higher more playable trajectory this greatly improves long game yardage gaps.

right... i alternate between a driving iron, 2i, and 2hybrid... its not always about preference sometimes its course setup... usually i will use a driving iron though and as BJ said a driving iron is just basically a really forgiving version of what it's replacing and it may launch with just a little more spin and a little higher and a little harder to keep down...

[QueenCityGolfer]

I can't believe I am reading this. Do you choose a wedge based on how far it hits, or how accurately it hits? Why should a hybrid be any different??!!

Because it is different.

I choose a wedge based on how it feels and performs. Accuracy with a wedge is going to be soley predicated on my ability to hit the shot properly, and the same is true of distance. The club is doing none of that work for me. Furthermore, the purpose of a wedge is not to advance the ball, it's to score the ball. Therefore, the wedge needs to be evaluated differently than the hybrid club, which is more or less built to simply advance the ball down the fairway.

My last hybrid was frozen-rope accurate, but when nowhere. How does that benefit me? I'd rather have another hybrid or an iron that was harder to hit, but longer. I can't re-engineer my swing to make a soft club go far. However, I can make a good swing with a hot club, and see the ball go far, and just as straight.

Accuracy is FAR more important than absolute distance.

Distance dictates accuracy where it really matters (close to the green), unless you are in the top 5% of golfers in the world who are good enough to fully compensate for a lack of it.

Would you rather have a driver that was super straight, but 40 yards shorter than another driver that might be 30% less accurate? If so, you aren't a very smart player. In most cases, I like my chances at getting close to the pin from 145 yards out in the rough, better than I like my chances of getting close from 185 yards in the middle of the fairway. And seeing as how most pros (who happen to fall into the 5% of people who can hit a 3 or 4 iron lazer straight in their sleep) are playing the "bomb and gouge" game, who are you to question the methodology? If the Tour pros think it's a better idea to be longer and a little less accurate with their long clubs, then that's probably not a bad play.

You can always adjust distance by choice of lofts and shafts.

But then you have things like ball flight and spin rates to deal, smaller dispersion than a steel option...less accuracy for a lot of people.

A long club without accuracy is.....well......like John Daly on a bad day.

No club in the world is built with accuracy engineered out of it. How accurate the club is will be based on the users ability, and nothing more. Distance, on the other hand, can be a direct result of something well engineered, or something under-engineered. For example, compare the Callaway Warbird fairway woods of 10 years ago, to the X fairway woods of today. They will be just as "accurate" for most people, yet most people will hit the X woods much farther.

[dorkman53]

Because it is different.

I choose a wedge based on how it feels and performs. Accuracy with a wedge is going to be soley predicated on my ability to hit the shot properly, and the same is true of distance. The club is doing none of that work for me. Furthermore, the purpose of a wedge is not to advance the ball, it's to score the ball. Therefore, the wedge needs to be evaluated differently than the hybrid club, which is more or less built to simply advance the ball down the fairway.

My last hybrid was frozen-rope accurate, but when nowhere. How does that benefit me? I'd rather have another hybrid or an iron that was harder to hit, but longer. I can't re-engineer my swing to make a soft club go far. However, I can make a good swing with a hot club, and see the ball go far, and just as straight.



Distance dictates accuracy where it really matters (close to the green), unless you are in the top 5% of golfers in the world who are good enough to fully compensate for a lack of it.

Would you rather have a driver that was super straight, but 40 yards shorter than another driver that might be 30% less accurate? If so, you aren't a very smart player. In most cases, I like my chances at getting close to the pin from 145 yards out in the rough, better than I like my chances of getting close from 185 yards in the middle of the fairway. And seeing as how most pros (who happen to fall into the 5% of people who can hit a 3 or 4 iron lazer straight in their sleep) are playing the "bomb and gouge" game, who are you to question the methodology? If the Tour pros think it's a better idea to be longer and a little less accurate with their long clubs, then that's probably not a bad play.



But then you have things like ball flight and spin rates to deal, smaller dispersion than a steel option...less accuracy for a lot of people.



No club in the world is built with accuracy engineered out of it. How accurate the club is will be based on the users ability, and nothing more. Distance, on the other hand, can be a direct result of something well engineered, or something under-engineered. For example, compare the Callaway Warbird fairway woods of 10 years ago, to the X fairway woods of today. They will be just as "accurate" for most people, yet most people will hit the X woods much farther.

The hypothetical examples you have chosen are obviously "beat up the straw man" absurdities. The idea that you can't find a hybrid (or an iron, or lofted metalwood, for that matter) that can hit for a particular distance with a desired trajectory simply means that you haven't found the correct head/loft/shaft combination for YOUR needs yet. Don't assume that there aren't long irons that can hit high, or hybrids and metalwoods that can't hit with a low, running trajectory. You simply haven't tried enough possibilities, so don't make blanket statements that transparently reveal your naivity and ignorance.

The "bash and gouge" example of hitting "40 yards longer with 30% less accuracy" is equally ludicrous. I guess this is why John Daly and Bubba Watson win so many tournaments.

[Macgregor]

I started playing in 1979 and the gap between the 3 wood and 4 iron was always a 4 and 5 wood,no one but the pros and scratch guys used 1s and 2 irons.I am off 3 now,lower then,and hybrids are no easier than older woods

In fact the lower spinning persimmons were easier to control

[QueenCityGolfer]

The hypothetical examples you have chosen are obviously "beat up the straw man" absurdities. The idea that you can't find a hybrid that can hit for a particular distance with a desired trajectory simply means that you haven't found the correct head/loft/shaft combination for YOUR needs yet. Don't assume that there aren't hybrids that can't hit with a low, running trajectory. You simply haven't tried enough possibilities, so don't make blanket statements that transparently reveal your naivity and ignorance

There is no hybrid club/shaft combination on the market that will play exactly like whatever iron they are intended to replace. This is simply a fact. If you buy a hybrid to cover a distance gap left by dropping an iron, then you are making the choice to cover that distance gap in an entirely different way. That's common sense. The hybrid is an entirely different type of club than a standard iron, and thus performs entirely differently.

You seem to be ignoring the length of the typical hybrid shaft itself. The typical hybrid club is much shorter than the iron it is intended to replace. So are you going to tell me that the length of the club makes no difference in how a ball travels after it is struck with it? You are going to tell me that despite the length difference, you can replicate a long iron's performance characteristics to a T, with a much shorter hybrid, simply by messing around with lofts, shaft flexes and kick points? Explain to me how a shorter shaft doesn't effect your swing plane, and how your swing plane doesn't effect the ball action/flight. Explain to me how a shorter shaft will not rob you of distance, eventhough it leads to a reduction of width in your swing, and subsequent reduction of clubhead speed, but also adds backspin by virtue of the more descending blow that you are putting on to the ball. Explain to me how lofts, shaft flexes, and kick points, can completely counter-act anything that is happening in the golf swing.

How do I turn a Big Bertha Heavenwood hybrid into a Titleist 695.MB 2 iron? What shaft, flex, and loft do I need to get the same trajectory and distance?

The "bash and gouge" example of hitting "40 yards longer with 30% less accuracy" is equally ludicrous. I guess this is why John Daly and Bubba Watson win so many tournaments.

It would be "ludicrous" if John Daly and Bubba Watson were the only two playing that way, but they aren't. Tiger Woods plays that way quite often, and he wins all of the time. He's currently ranked 167th in driving accuracy, and 12th in driving distance. You tell me what the priority is for the best golfer on Earth.

And Bubba Watson has had a pretty damn good year so far. 5 Top 10's, a few near wins, and 33rd in the FedEx Cup rankings. That's fairly good, wouldn't you say?

[dorkman53]

There is no hybrid club/shaft combination on the market that will play exactly like whatever iron they are intended to replace. This is simply a fact. If you buy a hybrid to cover a distance gap left by dropping an iron, then you are making the choice to cover that distance gap in an entirely different way. That's common sense. The hybrid is an entirely different type of club than a standard iron, and thus performs entirely differently.

You seem to be ignoring the length of the typical hybrid shaft itself. The typical hybrid club is much shorter than the iron it is intended to replace. So are you going to tell me that the length of the club makes no difference in how a ball travels after it is struck with it? You are going to tell me that despite the length difference, you can replicate a long iron's performance characteristics to a T, with a much shorter hybrid, simply by messing around with lofts, shaft flexes and kick points? Explain to me how a shorter shaft doesn't effect your swing plane, and how your swing plane doesn't effect the ball action/flight. Explain to me how a shorter shaft will not rob you of distance, eventhough it leads to a reduction of width in your swing, and subsequent reduction of clubhead speed, but also adds backspin by virtue of the more descending blow that you are putting on to the ball. Explain to me how lofts, shaft flexes, and kick points, can completely counter-act anything that is happening in the golf swing.

How do I turn a Big Bertha Heavenwood hybrid into a Titleist 695.MB 2 iron? What shaft, flex, and loft do I need to get the same trajectory and distance?



It would be "ludicrous" if John Daly and Bubba Watson were the only two playing that way, but they aren't. Tiger Woods plays that way quite often, and he wins all of the time. He's currently ranked 167th in driving accuracy, and 12th in driving distance. You tell me what the priority is for the best golfer on Earth.

And Bubba Watson has had a pretty damn good year so far. 5 Top 10's, a few near wins, and 33rd in the FedEx Cup rankings. That's fairly good, wouldn't you say?

Obviously, there would be no point whatsoever in buying a hybrid to replicate a long iron one already had in one's bag. I think we can agree on that one. However, my point was simply that it is possible to find long iron head designs and shaft selections that can make the club hit higher than a typical long iron, and it would also be possible to find a hybrid (or fairway metal, for that matter) that can hit with a rather low trajectory. Of course, one is always dealing with tradeoffs in club selections. I will swap a 5 wood in and out with a 2 hybrid depending on wind conditions and the type of course.

Yes, hybrids will usually have longer shafts vs. the iron they are supposed to replace, but will have a shorter shaft than a comparable fairway metal. This all gets factored in by the manufacturer, or should be. Several years ago, I had Taylormade Rescue Mids, and they hit about a club longer than their comparably numbered irons. However, the Hogan CFT hybrids hit about the same distance as their comparable irons. I think this will tend to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Sometimes the marketing forces will come into play as well, with "ego club numbering" (my 40 degree 9 iron hits farther than your 44 degree 9 iron.....)

[CPS]

I also wonder why a hybrid is thought of as a long iron replacement. I think it is more accurate to view hybrids as replacements for the higher loft woods. All things being equal, the 1-hybrid is actually the replacement for the 2-iron. The 2-hybrid is the replacement for the 3-iron and so on. So to replace a long iron with a hybrid you are adding shaft length and taking away loft. It makes much more sense to think of it the other way, to replace a 5 or 7 wood with a hybrid.

We should keep in mind then the type of irons we are talking about. Anyone who can handle a thin-sole blade 2-iron is a god of technique and swing speed. But a slightly offset cavity back with a wider sole for turf transition is obviously easier to get airborne. If I had a blade 2-iron in my bag I would be one of those stubborn alpha males Dorkman is talking about. In fact, a lot of very skilled players still use cavity back in the 2-iron while having a traditional blades.

In the end, I agree with BJ that you rarely find yourself in the mood to go for a 230-yard approach. I never find myself playing a 500-yard par 4. I should have mentioned that the smart play (which I usually…. "usually” do) would be something like easy 8-iron and full lob. Playing smart is cool but some days you think why not go for it and jack up the deuce? Risk and reward… course management… it is one of the best parts of the game.

[dorkman53]

I also wonder why a hybrid is thought of as a long iron replacement. I think it is more accurate to view hybrids as replacements for the higher loft woods. All things being equal, the 1-hybrid is actually the replacement for the 2-iron. The 2-hybrid is the replacement for the 3-iron and so on. So to replace a long iron with a hybrid you are adding shaft length and taking away loft. It makes much more sense to think of it the other way, to replace a 5 or 7 wood with a hybrid.

Whether one looks at it as a long iron or lofted metalwood replacement is really semantics only. If one chooses to go the hybrid route, it is usually a 2, 3, or 4 iron being replaced, and/or a 5, 7, or 9 wood. The "number" of the hybrid (or for that matter, of a fairway wood) is less important than the loft and how far that club actually hits relative to its partners in the bag. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. I've seen 5 woods range from 17 to 20 degrees, and 7 woods from 19-24 degrees. What is now called a 3 iron (usually about 20 degrees) would have been called a 2 iron or lower in the past, prior to the current market/ego driven trend toward stronger lofts in irons.

[QueenCityGolfer]

Obviously, there would be no point whatsoever in buying a hybrid to replicate a long iron one already had in one's bag. I think we can agree on that one. However, my point was simply that it is possible to find long iron head designs and shaft selections that can make the club hit higher than a typical long iron, and it would also be possible to find a hybrid (or fairway metal, for that matter) that can hit with a rather low trajectory. Of course, one is always dealing with tradeoffs in club selections. I will swap a 5 wood in and out with a 2 hybrid depending on wind conditions and the type of course.

Exactly. This is a good example of the trade-off I was talking about.

Yes, hybrids will usually have longer shafts vs. the iron they are supposed to replace, but will have a shorter shaft than a comparable fairway metal. This all gets factored in by the manufacturer, or should be. Several years ago, I had Taylormade Rescue Mids, and they hit about a club longer than their comparably numbered irons. However, the Hogan CFT hybrids hit about the same distance as their comparable irons. I think this will tend to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Sometimes the marketing forces will come into play as well, with "ego club numbering" (my 40 degree 9 iron hits farther than your 44 degree 9 iron.....)

That's unavoidable. Ultimately, the better sales pitch is what determines the creative direction. Truth is, most people don't like their long irons. I happen to love mine. I played a round on Sunday, and picked the course apart with my long irons, and my version of the "stinger". Why not take advantage of dry conditions? I hit 4 drivers which were all bad, but played a few super long Par 5's with only irons, and Par'd them both. I love my ling irons too much to replace them with a boring hybrid, but I guess I'm in the minority on that. If somebody could point me to a used 735, 704, or 804 2 iron, I'd buy it right now.

[bobby the wood]

I have a 2 iron in my bag and I don't think that will change.
Also I don't hit it a lot out of the tee but to me it is precious on long par 3s espacially when there is a lot of wind. Since I often hit 300 yards with my driver I rarely have to hit more than a 4 iron on short/typical par 5s, on long par 5s I must shoot the 3W to reach the green in 2 anyways.

So in the end, hybrid, 5 wood or 2 Iron, except maybe from the rough on par 5s, this choice comes down to the club I'm more confident with on a long par 3 and in terms of accuracy and capacity to stop the ball I'm definately going with the 2 Iron.

[gmoney]

I really like to hit irons. My next set of irons will have a 2 iron in it. I find that the longer shaft with 5 woods and hybrids doesn't give me the confidence that an iron does. I've got a pretty quick swing speed though I'm not the best golfer. My last look at a swing radar showed me I was swinging a 3 iron about 97-100mph and a 6 iron about 95mph. I have a much easier time shaping and controlling shots with an iron than a wood. I usually ditch my 5 wood in favor of my 3 iron, even though my distance suffers slightly. With a 2 iron, I know I could ditch the 5 wood.

If you like woods or hybrids, stick with what works for you. Irons seem to suit me best.

[PINGELI]

I am a 20+ handicapper and carry a 2 iron. I just bought custom-fit PING rapture irons 2-pw and a PING i-wedge sand wegde (haven't changed my sig yet). Prior to that, I carried a PING g2 HL 2 iron. I love hitting my 2 iron. I have yet to find a hybrid I am 100% comfortable with (the look o fmay hybrids is hard for me to get over). I hit the 2 well enough to keep it in my bag and will continue to do so until I find a decent hybrid I like. I am hitting DG s400 shafts and get good distance for a high handicapper (though my est drive ever was 340 yards with a dunlop centrus 1 wood). If you can hit the 2 iron and like it, why not carry it?

[dorkman53]

I am a 20+ handicapper and carry a 2 iron. I just bought custom-fit PING rapture irons 2-pw and a PING i-wedge sand wegde (haven't changed my sig yet). Prior to that, I carried a PING g2 HL 2 iron. I love hitting my 2 iron. I have yet to find a hybrid I am 100% comfortable with (the look o fmay hybrids is hard for me to get over). I hit the 2 well enough to keep it in my bag and will continue to do so until I find a decent hybrid I like. I am hitting DG s400 shafts and get good distance for a high handicapper (though my est drive ever was 340 yards with a dunlop centrus 1 wood). If you can hit the 2 iron and like it, why not carry it?

Maybe you'd be a 14 handicapper if you didn't carry the 2 iron........

[pingman360]

Maybe you'd be a 14 handicapper if you didn't carry the 2 iron........

the Raptures are basically hybrids there so forgiving... lol

[MTibbo]

Unless your playing a course (preferbly links) that is very dry or windy you really dont need a 2 iron, unless obvisouly if you can hit it and hit it with consitentisy. I beleive most people that carry a 2 iron on this board are a 10 or higher handicap, and most people that carry a hybird are lower then a 10 handicap.