controversy over blades and CB poll...

[pingman360]

so there has been a lot of arguing over blades vs CB i dont and each side is very much so set on there ways... i think it would be interesting to see just how many on each side play a CB or blade so here is the poll...

after voting give a serious reason for your choice of club...

[pingman360]

i can play blades but i dont (in fact i own 2 sets), i play CB's b/c blades do not help me at all... blades and CB's can be worked equally well, distance and dispersion leans toward the CB, and mis-hits are not punished as severly... in short blades do not really help or hinder me but its nice to know that when i do mess up the CB is there to give me a chance at a bird...

[dorkman53]

I've demo'd blades, had a couple of combo sets, and have settled on a "player's CB."
Like PIngman, I've concluded that a well struck shot on either a blade or a CB will give a great result, and a bad shot on either will give a bad result. However, on the "not quite great" shot, the CB's will give more forgiveness. Mine definitely let me know what I did wrong without punishing me too severely. I played combo sets by Hogan and Bridgestone, but I just happen to like my Wishon 560 MC's better than anything else I've ever played, because of the combination of sole grind, feel, accuracy, and forgiveness. Not much offset, a rather thin topline; they're NOT "game improvement shovels" by any means, but still provide a lot of forgiveness. They happen to be forged, rather than cast, if that matters to anybody.
http://www.twgolftech.com/designs_de...=17&dType=sets

[bjdrivers]

I think you should change the pole question to muscleback vs. cavity back. Some player's cbs like mine is a blade, with a small cavity.

[pingman360]

I think you should change the pole question to muscleback vs. cavity back. Some player's cbs like mine is a blade, with a small cavity.

the 690cb's are CB's though...

[LyleG]

Some player's cbs like mine is a blade, with a small cavity.

In your fuking dreams. Those are a full blow CB, nice try though.

I see ZERO benefit to playing a blade. I play to score, not to impress people on the internet like some of our resident posers.

[neverman]

In your fuking dreams. Those a full blow CB, nice try though.

I see ZERO benefit to playing a blade. I play to score, not to impress people on the internet like some of our resident posers.

I can't find a point in this post to argue... so I'll just +1 it

[Brock]

CB here though I think my next set will be something with cb still but less of a wide sole.....like Srixon 506, Bridgestone J33 or Mizuno 57..... so are my Mizuno MP-T wedges cb or blades. LOL

[Omen2]

do i really need to post?

didn't think so.

i play blades because i dont want to mask a bad swing with a good result... if i hit it on the toe i dont want it to go almost the same distance. I feel that having no margin for error will improve my swing and in the long run make me a better player.

with that said ( i'm assuming this is a serious thread as of now) player's cavity's are what i would consider a very serious club. I think that people who play the wishon's or the tadmoores are dillusional if they think that the mishits on those yield any better result than the same mishit with a blade... in the end i would bet that it's a mental block for them and that their scores would not deteriorate from playing blades.... let's be honest the mishits are more frequently going to happen with the long irons... how often do you mishit an 8 iron?

so player's cavities and blades are permissable... all that other stuff is for hackers...

anyting cast is no good and if you play a hybrid and it's not to replace a 5 wood then you are gay.

Omen, and i am being serious.

[neverman]

Phew, I'm not a gay hacker... And I was just thinking of coming out of the closet. Thanks Omen!

[bjdrivers]

In your fuking dreams. Those are a full blow CB, nice try though.

I see ZERO benefit to playing a blade. I play to score, not to impress people on the internet like some of our resident posers.

Hold one of my irons next to a x20, r7 tp, i5, or any of the Mizuno cavities. If you can't tell a difference in the cavities then not only are you Gay, you are also Blind. Make yourself useful and go play with some men's shafts.

[bjdrivers]

the 690cb's are CB's though...

That's exactly what I said in my post. Which is why your poll should be MUSCLEBACK vs. CAVITY BACK. Ping i3 BLADE has a cavity.

[lorenzoinoc]

I checked in with our maker before buying my last set of irons. First, I wanted to know what would get me laid the most. He didn't answer. Then, I wanted to know what type of clubs would keep Hillary out of office. Again, no answer. So I asked what would be the absolute manliest, most impressive clubs I could play which had a reasonable amount of foregiveness, and god said Mizuno MP-60-s, but that if I could quiet down at the top a little, the MP-32-s would work for me. So I don't want to be a cavity back guy, but right now God says that's what's best for me. Who would have thought God was a Mizuno guy?

[The Purist]

MP-29's

Why I play them:
1-I like the look at address
2-The feel of the club in my hands
3-The feel at impact
4-Workability

[Brock]

I checked in with our maker before buying my last set of irons. First, I wanted to know what would get me laid the most. He didn't answer. Then, I wanted to know what type of clubs would keep Hillary out of office. Again, no answer. So I asked what would be the absolute manliest, most impressive clubs I could play which had a reasonable amount of foregiveness, and god said Mizuno MP-60-s, but that if I could quiet down at the top a little, the MP-32-s would work for me. So I don't want to be a cavity back guy, but right now God says that's what's best for me. Who would have thought God was a Mizuno guy?

does that answer hold true with the new MP-57s out there now?

[lorenzoinoc]

does that answer hold true with the new MP-57s out there now?

God says he thinks he'd like the MP-57-s as well, but hasn't demo'd them yet.

[Not a hacker]

I checked in with our maker before buying my last set of irons. First, I wanted to know what would get me laid the most. He didn't answer. Then, I wanted to know what type of clubs would keep Hillary out of office.

You are barking up the wrong tree. If you want to achieve these goals from golf, Dr Disc and his one plane swing is the guy you should be talking to. But be warned, you will also find golf so ridiculously easy that it becomes boring.

And he may pass your email address onto some Nigerian gentlemen who have a multi million dollar fortune for you to collect, for a nominal 'administration' fee.

[Brock]

Let me know what is the final verdict if you do, if god does demo them I mean and lets you know.

[golfaholic]

PW-8 Of my Pi5's are blades.

[lorenzoinoc]

Nah -- I did take his silence as a sign that he has empowered Dr. Disc to respond to non-golf related questions.

Brock -- I asked God when he plans to demo the 57-s, and he just gave me this look, like you little italian POS, why are constantly bugging me with all of these questions. So, I don't want to be too pushy, but I'll bring it up next time it doesn't look like he'll strike me dead if I ask one more question.

[dorkman53]

I think you should change the pole question to muscleback vs. cavity back. Some player's cbs like mine is a blade, with a small cavity.

Is a pole question something like, "If I touch my tongue to this frozen pole, will it stick"?
Or perhaps is it, "Which is better, Gdansk or Warsaw"?

[dorkman53]

do i really need to post?

didn't think so.

i play blades because i dont want to mask a bad swing with a good result... if i hit it on the toe i dont want it to go almost the same distance. I feel that having no margin for error will improve my swing and in the long run make me a better player.

with that said ( i'm assuming this is a serious thread as of now) player's cavity's are what i would consider a very serious club. I think that people who play the wishon's or the tadmoores are dillusional if they think that the mishits on those yield any better result than the same mishit with a blade... in the end i would bet that it's a mental block for them and that their scores would not deteriorate from playing blades.... let's be honest the mishits are more frequently going to happen with the long irons... how often do you mishit an 8 iron?

so player's cavities and blades are permissable... all that other stuff is for hackers...

anyting cast is no good and if you play a hybrid and it's not to replace a 5 wood then you are gay.

Omen, and i am being serious.

I truly am not trying to start a flame war here, but why isn't it enough that your club tells you what you did wrong, but forgives the shot somewhat and places the ball near the intended target? I know when I hit a shot thin with my Wishons, but when I do that I get a lower trajectory shot that still goes straight and almost the perfect distance. I am baffled by the logic behind wanting to be punished for less than great shots, when with a more forgiving club will still instruct you what to improve, but doesn't hurt your score.

[Kiwi Player]

if you play a hybrid and it's not to replace a 5 wood then you are gay.

Omen

I don't believe I'm reading this?

You mean it's OK to play a hybrid as long as it replaces a 5 wood?

[Not a hacker]

I truly am not trying to start a flame war here, but why isn't it enough that your club tells you what you did wrong, but forgives the shot somewhat and places the ball near the intended target? I know when I hit a shot thin with my Wishons, but when I do that I get a lower trajectory shot that still goes straight and almost the perfect distance. I am baffled by the logic behind wanting to be punished for less than great shots, when with a more forgiving club will still instruct you what to improve, but doesn't hurt your score.

A mate of mine who is a pro said the best way to go is get a blade for practice, but use something a little more forgiving on course. As long as the specs for the blade are the same as the ones you play on course.

But of course he didn't mention anything about using hybrids instead of long irons, which I took to mean he thought hybrids are for fags.

[lorenzoinoc]

A mate of mine who is a pro said the best way to go is get a blade for practice, but use something a little more forgiving on course. As long as the specs for the blade are the same as the ones you play on course.

Practice with different clubs than the ones you take on the course? Wow.

[lorenzoinoc]

Is a pole question something like, "If I touch my tongue to this frozen pole, will it stick"?
Or perhaps is it, "Which is better, Gdansk or Warsaw"?

Actually, on this site it's more like: "Have you ever seen a pole bigger than mine?"

[LyleG]

i play blades because i dont want to mask a bad swing with a good result... if i hit it on the toe i dont want it to go almost the same distance.

This has to be the most stupid thing you have posted yet, and that speaks volumes. Golf is about scoring, nothing else matters.

[Horseballs]

I play MP-32's. What was the point of this thread again?

[pingman360]

This has to be the most stupid thing you have posted yet, and that speaks volumes. Golf is about scoring, nothing else matters.

right he takes a 80 (or 93) but play blades, rather than take a 72 but play CB's... i know that it may only be a stroke or two a round if any at all... but it makes a difference... it doesent matter how you get it there it just matters how many it took...

[SwingHarder]

No need to make this game any harder than it already is.

[bjdrivers]

I play muscleback blades that have a cavity in them. This allows other players to see what looks like muscleback blades in my bag, but gives me much needed forgiveness when I'm playing with them. What was the point of this thread again?

Well put HB. That'll show em.

[lorenzoinoc]

Well, I have a very strong opinion on this. I think...uh...gee, what was it.....I can't remember. I was.....going to tie together the whole pick-up truck, blade-cavity back thing once and for all.....but now I forget.....what I was going to say.

Take your time BJ, it will come to you, we'll wait.

[lorenzoinoc]

I play MP-32's. What was the point of this thread again?

It was to continue the argument of cavity back cast shovels vs. forged blades, and to see if Hacker gets to include his MX-20-s, which by right are closer to shovels than blades, with blades through sheer force of will.

[dorkman53]

It was to continue the argument of cavity back cast shovels vs. forged blades, and to see if Hacker gets to include his MX-20-s, which by right are closer to shovels than blades, with blades through sheer force of will.

The MX-20's begat the MX-23's, which in turn begat the MX-25's.
The MX-20's are good clubs. They are about as much blades as the stuff Ping has called "blades" on their website. They're a good quality forged cavity back with that great soft Mizuno feel, and plenty of forgiveness (oops....I shouldn't use that nasty word on this board.)

[bjdrivers]

Take your time BJ, it will come to you, we'll wait.

Haha that's exactly what I was trying to get out.

[dorkman53]

This has to be the most stupid thing you have posted yet, and that speaks volumes. Golf is about scoring, nothing else matters.

That mentality reminds me of a buddy of mine. Several years ago, he had bought a Callaway VFT driver, which had the reputation of having a sweet spot the size of the point of a needle. He would make bad shot after bad shot with that club, and one good one in every 3 or 4 attempts. He's the kind of guy who flogs himself when he doesn't make the shot he intended, even if the result is good. No "good miss" and a grin from him.
Anyway, this went on for many months; consistently mediocre to poor results from a very unforgiving club, and he resisted all hints and suggestions that there were more forgiving clubs out there. He insisted he didn't want to cover his swing flaws; he was determined to learn to hit that piece of crap club he had bought. (It wasn't a financial issue; he is a successful professional.)
Eventually, he broke down and got a more forgiving driver.. Now he makes a much higher percentage of good drives, and consequently his scores are better. He has always been a good iron and short game player. His index is about 10.
I can't figure out the masochistic mentality of wanting to punish oneself for less than perfect shots. Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be a battery powered shock unit which could be hooked to the genitals. The person could have more forgiving clubs, but could administer a jolt of electrons to the gonads after every less than perfect shot that still had a reasonably good result.

[Not a German]

Lads, I play blades made out of the orginal steel used by my ancestors during the dawn of the iron age. The shafts are of the first hickory grown in Europe. While the shafts are somewhat termite riddled, and the clubfaces have mostly rusted away, I feel I am playing an authentic set of equipment, reaffirming the *****hood of those who don't. I do manage to hit an occasional solid shot, and with each one, my manhood swells. They are also light enough to be conveniently transported by me using my preferred, traditional mode of transportation - the bicycle. Cars just don't offer the same feel and don't provide the same bonecrushing feedback when in an accident.

[Not a German]

Censorship is without question the most insidious plague affecting mankind. That last post of mine had a word asterisked by someone or something. The word should have started with a p, ended in a y, and had u-s-s in the middle. Thank you.

[dorkman53]

Censorship is without question the most insidious plague affecting mankind. That last post of mine had a word asterisked by someone or something. The word should have started with a p, ended in a y, and had u-s-s in the middle. Thank you.

The board has some very simplistic automatic censorship software, which is extremely easy to override.
It won't let me say *****, but it will let me say p.u.s.s.y.
It won't let me say........well, you get the idea........

[The Purist]

It doesn't matter what you play. If you have a grooved swing, then your misses will probably deviate about the same whether you use blades or cavity backs. I think it is definitely easier to work the ball with blades. The ability to work the ball leads to better course management and better scoring.

The best thing Dave Pelz ever did was take PEI's (percentage error index) of every tour player he watched. Across the board almost every tour player he measured had a shot dispersion of 7% to the intended target no matter what club he uses (9i - Driver). Basically a tour pro lands his 150yd approach about 10yds from the pin (avg), and a 225 yd approach to 16yds(avg). I would argue that how your shots deviate is important.

EXAMPLE: 150 yds to a pin tucked on the right (green sloping right to left). A player that can fade the ball has a better chance of getting close to the hole than a straight/draw only player. A player with a fade can aim for the center of the green and miss it left or right 10yds and probably still be on. A straight/draw only player has very few options on getting close and is more likely to miss the green all together.

On a side note, Omen's 93 has been brought up more than Johnny Miller's 63. I may be wrong, but I bet it had more to do with poor green reading/short game than how he struck his irons. {Maybe Jack Nicklaus designed the course (he likes to #$%@ with people that can't fade)} What really happened that day?

[Not a hacker]

It was to continue the argument of cavity back cast shovels vs. forged blades, and to see if Hacker gets to include his MX-20-s, which by right are closer to shovels than blades, with blades through sheer force of will.

A couple of points, my greasy friend (as a fellow wog/wop I hope that doesn't get me sent to Spanks current abode).

1. The MX 20's are a forged club with no offset and have much better feel than any POS shovel Ping or Callaway has ever brought out.

2. Your logic that 'just because I don't play muscleback blades means I think my clubs are better' is flawed. Sometimes you just have to play with what you've got til you get a chance to upgrade. I'm sure there aren't too many guys on this forum who are dating a penthouse pet, but that doesn't mean they think their current girlfriend is better looking than one.

[Horseballs]

On a side note, Omen's 93 has been brought up more than Johnny Miller's 63. I may be wrong, but I bet it had more to do with poor green reading/short game than how he struck his irons. {Maybe Jack Nicklaus designed the course (he likes to #$%@ with people that can't fade)} What really happened that day?

I was there. A few things factored into the 93.
1.) We were playing speed golf. As many holes as possible in a single day.
2.) The course while normally difficult, was extra difficult since it was hosting our city tournament finals the next week. I think we both had something like 8-10 three putts.
3.) There is incredible pressure when playing alongside someone as awesome as Horseballs. I believe my cargo shorts were messing with his head.
4.) There is no excuse. We both played pretty horribly.

[bjdrivers]

93s aren't hard. I had broken 80 for 3 rounds in a row (an accomplishment for me) last summer, so I was playing well, when I played a track that I was very familiar with. I have broken 80 on it plenty of times. I shot an 91. I had 10/14 FW, 11 GIR, 7 3 putts, and a 4 putt. yes, a 4 putt.

I later found out that the day before I played, they had just had an ASGA sanctioned stroke play tournament, and they didn't move the pin locations. The pins were quite frankly ridiculous. My playing partner who usually shoots in the mid 80s struggled to break 100.

The greens were mowed so tight, I was afraid to even walk on them, and probably ran a 12+ on the stimp. They turned a somewhat difficult course into Bethpage black.

It's only 7190 yards, but when the greens are like that you can jack up the course rating and slope as far as I'm concerned. I guess that's why pro's learn where to miss and where not to miss. Downhill putts and short-sided misses were doomed.

[Not a hacker]

93s aren't hard. I had broken 80 for 3 rounds in a row (an accomplishment for me) last summer, so I was playing well, when I played a track that I was very familiar with. I have broken 80 on it plenty of times. I shot an 91. I had 10/14 FW, 11 GIR, 7 3 putts, and a 4 putt. yes, a 4 putt.

I later found out that the day before I played, they had just had an ASGA sanctioned stroke play tournament, and they didn't move the pin locations. The pins were quite frankly ridiculous. My playing partner who usually shoots in the mid 80s struggled to break 100.

The greens were mowed so tight, I was afraid to even walk on them, and probably ran a 12+ on the stimp. They turned a somewhat difficult course into Bethpage black.

It's only 7190 yards, but when the greens are like that you can jack up the course rating and slope as far as I'm concerned. I guess that's why pro's learn where to miss and where not to miss. Downhill putts and short-sided misses were doomed.

This is a good example of the real gulf between professionals and amatuers. Every club has some gun (who can get around his home course in under par most weeks on a tame track they know well, and with kind pin placements) who thinks he can play on tour. But put the same player on a track like the one you played and they will struggle to break 90.

It's a similar stroy when a LPGA player tries to play in a PGA event. It's not the extra distance that makes them look like hackers, it's the huge difference in course setup. The LPGA and Seniors tour gets wider fairways, shorter rough, softer and slower greens and easier pin placements, which allows them to shoot comparitive scores to the PGA tour. But the standard of golf on the PGA tour is like another planet.

Alot of people just look at the scores and don't fully appreciate how good the pros really are to shoot the scores they do on the course setups they get. And whe it comes to major championships it goes up another notch.

[Rainkingjr]

Just to clarify on the MX-20's. No they are not a blade and aren't a player's club by Mizuno's standards. If the were, they would be in the MP family. That being said, I have hit the MX-20's before and they were solid. Great feel as always from Mizuno. The head size is not over done. The offset is much more in the long irons. The scoring clubs come in a tad over 3mm which is pretty much equal to any blade today. Be patient hacker. Save up some coin and get yourself a set of MP-37's or 33's if you want to stay with Mizuno or do like me a grab a set of 2006 Hogan Apex. I got me for $300 in like new condition. I have played Mizuno's for a long time a love them. I have owned MP 30's, 33's, 37's and 60's. All great. I feel like the Hogans are just as good but a little different feel wise. Too bad Callaway now owns Hogan. They'll probably do away with or the ruin a great product bearing the name of the greatest ball striker ever.

[golfaholic]

Censorship is without question the most insidious plague affecting mankind. That last post of mine had a word asterisked by someone or something. The word should have started with a p, ended in a y, and had u-s-s in the middle. Thank you.

The Forum software sensors some words automatically such as ****-phuck and as you said *****.

Can't do anything about it so suck it up.

[Not a hacker]

Just to clarify on the MX-20's. No they are not a blade and aren't a player's club by Mizuno's standards. If the were, they would be in the MP family. That being said, I have hit the MX-20's before and they were solid. Great feel as always from Mizuno. The head size is not over done. The offset is much more in the long irons. The scoring clubs come in a tad over 3mm which is pretty much equal to any blade today. Be patient hacker. Save up some coin and get yourself a set of MP-37's or 33's if you want to stay with Mizuno or do like me a grab a set of 2006 Hogan Apex. I got me for $300 in like new condition. I have played Mizuno's for a long time a love them. I have owned MP 30's, 33's, 37's and 60's. All great. I feel like the Hogans are just as good but a little different feel wise. Too bad Callaway now owns Hogan. They'll probably do away with or the ruin a great product bearing the name of the greatest ball striker ever.

I agree with you about the MX20's. The only thing that I don't like about them is the short irons are a bit big and clunky for my liking. The feel is still pure but they just don't fit my eye properly. I'm looking for a set of cheap blades all the time. The good thing for me is I am standard lie, and only 1/2 inch long (which in alot of clubs these days is about what the same as off the rack) so I can at least get a bargain without having to midify them. I would like to stick with Mizuno if possible so I can mix and match with the MX20's. I wold probably keep the 3 to 6, and go muscle back from 7 down. The last set of near blades I had were a beat up set of Precept Tour Premiums (rilfe 6.0) and I used 5 to PW and loved them. Don't know why I ever got rid of them, I was brainwashed by the local pro and other guys who kept telling me I needed a club with more forgiveness. I was at my lowest ever handicap (7.6) using those babies.

[pingman360]

I agree with you about the MX20's. The only thing that I don't like about them is the short irons are a bit big and clunky for my liking. The feel is still pure but they just don't fit my eye properly. I'm looking for a set of cheap blades all the time. The good thing for me is I am standard lie, and only 1/2 inch long (which in alot of clubs these days is about what the same as off the rack) so I can at least get a bargain without having to midify them. I would like to stick with Mizuno if possible so I can mix and match with the MX20's. I wold probably keep the 3 to 6, and go muscle back from 7 down. The last set of near blades I had were a beat up set of Precept Tour Premiums (rilfe 6.0) and I used 5 to PW and loved them. Don't know why I ever got rid of them, I was brainwashed by the local pro and other guys who kept telling me I needed a club with more forgiveness. I was at my lowest ever handicap (7.6) using those babies.

if you want cheap blades check out the Macgregor m675's they arent mizzys but the have great feel and are prob the easiest blade hit on the current market... nice club you could get em for like $130 us... check em out and Badd's played them for a long time...

[lorenzoinoc]

I was there. A few things factored into the 93.
1.) We were playing speed golf. As many holes as possible in a single day.
2.) The course while normally difficult, was extra difficult since it was hosting our city tournament finals the next week. I think we both had something like 8-10 three putts.
3.) There is incredible pressure when playing alongside someone as awesome as Horseballs. I believe my cargo shorts were messing with his head.
4.) There is no excuse. We both played pretty horribly.

OK, we all want to know what you shot.

[lorenzoinoc]

A couple of points, my greasy friend (as a fellow wog/wop I hope that doesn't get me sent to Spanks current abode).

1. The MX 20's are a forged club with no offset and have much better feel than any POS shovel Ping or Callaway has ever brought out.

2. Your logic that 'just because I don't play muscleback blades means I think my clubs are better' is flawed. Sometimes you just have to play with what you've got til you get a chance to upgrade. I'm sure there aren't too many guys on this forum who are dating a penthouse pet, but that doesn't mean they think their current girlfriend is better looking than one.

Hey, I don't care what someone plays as long as it makes them happy. That said, I do kind of enjoy the flaming that goes on about the cast/forged blade/cavity back thing. But Hacker, if you're going to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Fact is you've been putting down cavity backs for as long as I've been on this forum. Fact is - you play 'em!

I'd never put down any Mizuno's. I play the cavity back MP-60-s and love them. All the Mizunos I've come across are great, quality clubs. But dude, you can't have it both ways. You can't crawl up everyone's ass for playing cavity backs and then when you're called on it cry poverty.

[LyleG]

The MX20's have a fair bit of offset.

[golfaholic]

The MX20's have a fair bit of offset.

That sig isn't up to date is it?

[Not a hacker]

if you want cheap blades check out the Macgregor m675's they arent mizzys but the have great feel and are prob the easiest blade hit on the current market... nice club you could get em for like $130 us... check em out and Badd's played them for a long time...

I had a set of Macgregor Tourney cavity blades a couple of years ago and found they had a really small sweetspot and were harder to hit than Mizuno musclebacks, but I'll take your word on the 675's. I've seen them in shops and they look and feel good in the hands.

[Not a hacker]

The MX20's have a fair bit of offset.

They don't appear to have much offset at address, maybe the 3 and 4 iron have a little. They definitely have less than the MX23, which had a fair bit. At the time I bought them they were being superseded by the 23 but I liked the 20 heaps more.

[Omen2]

dorkman and lyle... you will only drop 2 shots at most if you go from a player's cavity to a blade. you make it sound like your forgiving cavity is completely saving your round; it's not... the hybrid maybe but not the cavity...

I've already said that the only clubs i have problems with are offset, oversized, deep welled cavities... if you have a thin topline and no offset, with a very "modest" cavity that's okay. Quite frankly if you have to play callaway then you should quit and take up knitting.

I've only been playing for 4 years or so ( granted i have played several rounds) and if i can handle 32's then so can you.

i dont know what's more entertaining. the fact that you actually buy that i am serious or that you actually defend your cavities as ferociously as i mock defend my blades...

Lyle golf is solely about scoring for touring pros... for you if you shoot 84 or 86 nobody gives a phuck.. You are NOT IMPORTANT enough that your score matters..

For some of us Golf is more than a score; its how you play the game that matters not what you scored that day. for you to say that golf is only about scoring and that nothing else matters is the STUPIDEST THING ANYONE HAS EVER SAID... except for anyone who said they were getting a hybrid to replace their 4 iron like you did.

Omen

so in all seriousness Dorkman, I prefer my blades because the rough on cassique is 3-4 inches thick, and even though i dont hit it 320 i still find the shaggy stuff from time to time.. the smaller the head the better out of the rough... by the way let's see one of you hit a hybrid out of real rough?
yea didnt think so... god i love my long irons..

as far as my 93 goes, i'm not hiding behind anything... i played poorly and shot a 93... of course i shaved something like 13-15 strokes off on the second round which immediately followed...

everyone has bad days, everyone has really bad rounds, and anyone who says they havent probably lies about most everything as well.

Omen2

[dorkman53]

dorkman and lyle... you will only drop 2 shots at most if you go from a player's cavity to a blade. you make it sound like your forgiving cavity is completely saving your round; it's not... the hybrid maybe but not the cavity...

I've already said that the only clubs i have problems with are offset, oversized, deep welled cavities... if you have a thin topline and no offset, with a very "modest" cavity that's okay. Quite frankly if you have to play callaway then you should quit and take up knitting.

I've only been playing for 4 years or so ( granted i have played several rounds) and if i can handle 32's then so can you.

i dont know what's more entertaining. the fact that you actually buy that i am serious or that you actually defend your cavities as ferociously as i mock defend my blades...

Lyle golf is solely about scoring for touring pros... for you if you shoot 84 or 86 nobody gives a phuck.. You are NOT IMPORTANT enough that your score matters..

For some of us Golf is more than a score; its how you play the game that matters not what you scored that day. for you to say that golf is only about scoring and that nothing else matters is the STUPIDEST THING ANYONE HAS EVER SAID... except for anyone who said they were getting a hybrid to replace their 4 iron like you did.

Omen

so in all seriousness Dorkman, I prefer my blades because the rough on cassique is 3-4 inches thick, and even though i dont hit it 320 i still find the shaggy stuff from time to time.. the smaller the head the better out of the rough... by the way let's see one of you hit a hybrid out of real rough?
yea didnt think so... god i love my long irons..

as far as my 93 goes, i'm not hiding behind anything... i played poorly and shot a 93... of course i shaved something like 13-15 strokes off on the second round which immediately followed...

everyone has bad days, everyone has really bad rounds, and anyone who says they havent probably lies about most everything as well.

Omen2

You feel that I am insecure enough to need to "defend" my use of player's cavity backs and player's hybrids. WRONG. I frankly don't care what anybody thinks about what I play, much less some poser/flamer on the anonymous internet. I do, however, enjoy poking holes in the absurdity of your arguments. I do wish to balance the monotonous drumbeat of you and a few of your pubescent compadres, so that people who are newer in golf aren't intimidated or duped into following your idiotic suggestions.

You can't have it both ways. On one hand, when your stupidity shows, you say, "I was just joking all along." Then you keep playing the same tired tune. However, it is obvious that you truly believe at some level a substantial portion of the nonsense you keep spewing all over this board, but when cornered, you turn tail and say, "Ha, gotcha! I really thought I meant this." You are pathetic.

[dorkman53]

So in all seriousness Dorkman, I prefer my blades because the rough on cassique is 3-4 inches thick, and even though i dont hit it 320 i still find the shaggy stuff from time to time.. the smaller the head the better out of the rough... by the way let's see one of you hit a hybrid out of real rough?
yea didnt think so... god i love my long irons..

Omen2

I'm not giving you a pass on this one either. Your "incompletely myelinated brain" is showing through again. Your argument is based on a combination of logical fallacies; the "false dilemma" (it's either blades or hybrids), and "beating up the straw man." (You'd play a hybrid out of 4" rough; what an idiot!")

What club would YOU play out of 4" rough, assuming you can find the ball? A 2 iron? A 3 iron? And how far would the ball go if you hit a low trajectory shot out of thick rough? Far enough to get out of the rough?

Obviously, I wouldn't try to play a hybrid club out of deep rough. If it was nasty enough, I might even play a sand wedge, just to get the ball back into the fairway. An iron or wedge is the obvious answer, depending on the distance one thinks is needed or possible. I'll grant you that a blade is a better alternative than a thick soled shovel iron, but I defy you to prove that a blade or muscleback is any better in that setting than a player's cavity back with a relatively thin sole.

Foiled again. But keep trying........you are providing me with amusement value.....

[bjdrivers]

This will never end so let's agree to disagree. For those who want a challenge and improve their swing, play the blades. For those who want to make the game easier and let their clubs do all the work, play the cast shovel cavities. For those who want to improve their swing & get some forgiveness, play the player's cavities.

But hybrids are still gay as hell.

drivers.

[lorenzoinoc]

The best thing Dave Pelz ever did was take PEI's (percentage error index) of every tour player he watched.

Right now, it may be the best thing he ever did. But if Pelz fell off a cliff, his measurement of PEI would fall to 2d place.

[dorkman53]

But hybrids are still gay as hell.

You were starting to make sense, and then finished with THIS.....so long, 2008 Nobel Peace Prize......

What am I saying?! SENSE??!! On THIS board??!!

[Horseballs]

OK, we all want to know what you shot.

It was better than a 93, but not good. I honestly don't remember. 89? 90?
We played 2 more rounds at the same course that day and both made considerable strides towards respectability. The following day we played to ultra-exclusive Super Pretentious Country Club: home course of great golf luminaries such as Horseballs and Cargo Putter. Fun weekend.

[Omen2]

dude hybrids used in place of long irons are gay... they are hence forth named GAYBRIDS...

if i have 215 to a flag and i'm in some 3 inch rough, depending on the lie of course, i mean if it's all the way to the ground its hopeless but if i can still see the top of the ball there's a good chance to get the 3 or 4 iron to go that distance. a hybrid and well we all saw what padraig harrington did with his hybrid out of the rough.

well in response to your "defying me to prove that my blade is better than your player's cavity" i defy you to read my post for comprehension.. that's a long word i know.. perhaps if you google it.

I clearly stated that if you have a thin topline, no (minimal) offset and a modest cavity that that would be fine...

what is so confusing about that sentence?

I have you so infuriated that you aren't even paying attention to what i'm saying anymore.

it's not your fault, as a young kid you are easily excited, and i realize that your hormonal imbalance makes it difficult for you to maintain any level of focus on the topic at hand.

It would help your cause if your brain were completely myelinated. you should really look into myelination treatments... perhaps you could go to a myelinating facility and they could myelinate you some more with myelin of course. because myelin is a good thing... myelin, myelin, myelin.

let's get myelinated...

hopefully this replete of myelin usage will satisfy your need for it.

Omen

[dorkman53]

dude hybrids used in place of long irons are gay... they are hence forth named GAYBRIDS...

if i have 215 to a flag and i'm in some 3 inch rough, depending on the lie of course, i mean if it's all the way to the ground its hopeless but if i can still see the top of the ball there's a good chance to get the 3 or 4 iron to go that distance. a hybrid and well we all saw what padraig harrington did with his hybrid out of the rough.

well in response to your "defying me to prove that my blade is better than your player's cavity" i defy you to read my post for comprehension.. that's a long word i know.. perhaps if you google it.

I clearly stated that if you have a thin topline, no (minimal) offset and a modest cavity that that would be fine...

what is so confusing about that sentence?

I have you so infuriated that you aren't even paying attention to what i'm saying anymore.

it's not your fault, as a young kid you are easily excited, and i realize that your hormonal imbalance makes it difficult for you to maintain any level of focus on the topic at hand.

It would help your cause if your brain were completely myelinated. you should really look into myelination treatments... perhaps you could go to a myelinating facility and they could myelinate you some more with myelin of course. because myelin is a good thing... myelin, myelin, myelin.

let's get myelinated...

hopefully this replete of myelin usage will satisfy your need for it.

Omen

You described a scenario of very deep rough. If the rough is very deep, it would be foolhardy to use a hybrid, and I wouldn't even attempt it. I would use an iron.
Out of 4" rough, if you think you could hit a green 200+ yards away with any regularity, you have no business on this board. You should be competing with your idol Tiger Woods for millions of dollars of prize money.

You did say that minimal offset, thinner soled cavity backs would meet with your much coveted seal of approval, but let me quote the other part, to refresh your memory.

"so in all seriousness Dorkman, I prefer my blades because the rough on cassique is 3-4 inches thick, and even though i dont hit it 320 i still find the shaggy stuff from time to time.. the smaller the head the better out of the rough... by the way let's see one of you hit a hybrid out of real rough?
yea didnt think so... god i love my long irons.."

Here you were clearly making an "it's blades or hybrids" false dilemma, and I was simply pointing out the inconsistency (not mistakenly calling you a "hypocrite") of logic, if you indeed have a logic center inside your rather thick skull. You were also falsely assuming that I would try to play a hybrid out of such a lie. That logical fallacy is called "The fallacy of the assumed premise."

You are so much fun when you are angry........

[pingman360]

so in short Omen has backed himself into a corner... this was the purpose of the thread to show that there are only 4 of you on this board that play blades and that you are not in the majority when it comes to your oppinions about this yet you flaunt it like it is a fact... i think that we have proved something here and that is... you have your oppinion we have ours right or wrong we both stand by them...

[Omen2]

i disagree, i feel like the meaning in the sentence is this, that i would rather hit my blades out of rough than anything that is bigger. even player cavities, because any extra resistance will be noticed, and the effects can be measured.

after that comes the point of long irons vs. hybrids... and the point is again, i'd rather hit a 4 iron out of the rough than a hybrid..

if the ball isnt all the way down i do feel with some certainty that i have a very realistic chance of hitting a green that is 200 yards, away... but not with a hybrid... so the statement was two parts and the fact that you missed it could be my fault as the sender but for you to assume it is only one is ignorant on your part.

i will say that hybrids in place of long irons is the gayest thing imaginable...
just so that this is simple enough for dork, players cavities are "real" golf clubs, but i prefer my blades from the rough any day of the week.

Pingman, when one is in the right there can never be a situation of painting oneself into a corner... Logic dictates that the idiots, even if they are the majority, can never distort the facts.

the only thing the poll has done is quantify the duffers and the players... what use will you derive from this data?

[pingman360]

what use will you derive from this data?

i will say it again

you have your oppinion we have ours right or wrong we both stand by them...

[daveperk]

by the way let's see one of you hit a hybrid out of real rough?
yea didnt think so... god i love my long irons..

Omen2

You know, I'm not quite sure about this, but....

seems to me if I'm attempting a long shot out of REAL rough, then my titleist 5 wood is infinitely preferable to a long iron... cuz it reacts less to being drug through the tall grass than an iron head does... hybrids being more like woods than irons, seems like hybrid would be the choice if attempting that long shot.

But if the rough is TOO real for my five wood or hybrid, then it's too real for any long iron either.

And at that point, where you have to chop it out with the eight iron and take your lumps, I totally agree, the smaller the clubhead, the better. My old Zings really hated chops from long grass...

But I have to disagree that a three iron is better than a hybrid from long ugly US Open rough. Usually neither one will cut it. But if the long ball is possible, the wood head is better than the iron in most cases.

$0.02 worth

[Not a hacker]

The 5 wood is the best club for getting distance from long rough. Long irons get caught up in the grass. But a 5 wood is a legitimate golf club that has been in the bags of all past champions, hybrids haven't. 5 woods are also very versatile in the hands of a talented golfer and can do anything your talent allows you to do, unlike a hybrid which (apparently) is designed to go straight and high easier than a long iron. And I'd never know if a hybrid is easier to hit out of the rough than a long iron as I'd never have one of the gay ass things in any bag of mine.

[lorenzoinoc]

so in short Omen has backed himself into a corner... this was the purpose of the thread to show that there are only 4 of you on this board that play blades and that you are not in the majority when it comes to your oppinions about this yet you flaunt it like it is a fact... i think that we have proved something here and that is... you have your oppinion we have ours right or wrong we both stand by them...

One of the 4 votes was from Not a German, so really there are three.

[Not a German]

I resent that!

[lorenzoinoc]

I resent that!

I'm sure you do. But as a fictional character, you shouldn't have voted.

[pingman360]

But a 5 wood is a legitimate golf club that has been in the bags of all past champions, hybrids haven't.

someone better tell mr harrington that... who btw used it to replace a 3i...

[lorenzoinoc]

someone better tell mr harrington that... who btw used it to replace a 3i...

Dammit, more inconvenient facts!

[Not a hacker]

someone better tell mr harrington that... who btw used it to replace a 3i...

I addressed this in another thread. Harrington is a chump who choked down the 18th and only won after being outchoked by Sergio. Any player standing on the last hole of a major with a 2 stroke lead and proceeds to take double bogey is not the sort of person you hybrid huggers should be using to highlight your gay cause.

[pingman360]

I addressed this in another thread. Harrington is a chump who choked down the 18th and only won after being outchoked by Sergio. Any player standing on the last hole of a major with a 2 stroke lead and proceeds to take double bogey is not the sort of person you hybrid huggers should be using to highlight your gay cause.

yeah i saw that you addressed that but i still dont think it was b/c his hybrid let him down he didnt even use it when he "choked"

[Not a hacker]

yeah i saw that you addressed that but i still dont think it was b/c his hybrid let him down he didnt even use it when he "choked"

He may not have used it when he choked but the fact he is a choker and has a hybrid in his bag seems to back up the argument that real men don't use hybrids.

[pingman360]

He may not have used it when he choked but the fact he is a choker and has a hybrid in his bag seems to back up the argument that real men don't use hybrids.

oh i see...

[Kiwi Player]

He may not have used it when he choked but the fact he is a choker and has a hybrid in his bag seems to back up the argument that real men don't use hybrids.

And REAL men don't use GI oversize CB shovels either, like those MX-20's you have in the bag.

Remember with Mizuno

MP = Mizuno Player
MX = Mizuno Hacker

MX-20 Perfect for hackers, and in this case Not a Hacker

[Kiwi Player]

But hybrids are still gay as hell.

Not as gay as photographing your clubs.

Where you been? Polishing your "blades with a small cavity" for the next photo shoot?

[bladeduffer]

>>> MP-29's

Why I play them:
1-I like the look at address
2-The feel of the club in my hands
3-The feel at impact
4-Workability <<<

Exactly why I play my 690.MBs but then again I've always played blades simply because that is what I learned with. Since then, I've tried different CBs from TM, Callaway, and others. Didn't care for their lack of feedback and workabiltiy though I've never tried cavity MBs.

Which is better? None. Everyone likes what they like and will no doubt rationalize their respective choice. I like the fact that blades force me to be a better golfer moreso than clubs that are forgiving. I don't view getting penalized for mishits as punishment if it makes me address errors and mistakes. Then again, these days there are blades and CBs that straddle the fence between the two so ultimately, this whole debate becomes pointless.

bd

[Omen2]

i've been meaning to ask you NAH, why do you carry the MX's? they are clearly mizuno's line to just make a dollar off the TM, PING, CALLAWAY, COBRA guys who want to look like a player.

you are rational enough to play the MP line. Please see that you get some soon.

Omen

btw.. i still view you as an invaluable ally so dont let anyone convince you that this is an attack, it's just an observation with a question mark.

[lorenzoinoc]

This where he has alot of difficulty.

[Not a hacker]

i've been meaning to ask you NAH, why do you carry the MX's? they are clearly mizuno's line to just make a dollar off the TM, PING, CALLAWAY, COBRA guys who want to look like a player.

you are rational enough to play the MP line. Please see that you get some soon.

Omen

btw.. i still view you as an invaluable ally so dont let anyone convince you that this is an attack, it's just an observation with a question mark.

I play the MX20's because I got them custom fitted for about half the price of the MP's, and they are beautiful clubs with pure feel. I have said before they don't fit the eye as well as blades but the results are pretty good. They are definitely not as workable with the short irons as blades either. The reason I still have them is that I don't have the cash to buy blades at the moment (new kid, mortgage etc) and if I did it would be hard to justify. I was looking at clubs yesterday and found a set of Macgregor 675's in my specs that had been used twice for $500 AUD or $300 AUD changeover on my set that had me tempted but I want to keep the MX20's for when I get too old and outta shape to use blades. I had a hit with the Macgregors and they were sweet sticks. If I had the money spare I would definitely jump at them. In the meantime I will just have to keep trying to build up a big enough credit at my pro shop to snap up any second hand blades that come his way.

In hindsight I wouldn't have got rid of my old Precept Tour Premiums, but nothing I can do about it now. And at least my CB's are grain flow forged Mizuno's, which puts them at the top of the forged CB pile.

[bjdrivers]

And at least my CB's are grain flow forged Mizuno's, which puts them at the top of the forged CB pile.

Right behind my 690's biotch

[Not a hacker]

Right behind my 690's biotch

I don't rate my clubs in the same category as yours BJ. Yours are players cavity blades, mine are full on forged cavity backs. The Mizunos that I would compare to yours are the MP60's.

[bjdrivers]

I don't rate my clubs in the same category as yours BJ. Yours are players cavity blades, mine are full on forged cavity backs. The Mizunos that I would compare to yours are the MP60's.

Yeah, the 60's have slightly more offset than mine, but pretty much the same cavity. That's the model I would play if I played Mizzy's.

[DENNIS7180GOLF]

i recently went to the titty 755 from the mizzy mp 32 have to say i like them a lot better,maybe cause i swing like a 97 year old woman.
the tittys are absolutely awesome and i guess they would be a cb.

[LyleG]

The Mizunos will be far softer than the Titleists. The Titleists look better imo, and are usually far closer to spec from the factory in my experience than the Mizunos.

[DENNIS7180GOLF]

lyle,
i hit the 755 better and further so you must be right about the softness.
the 755 do look excellant at setup.

[lorenzoinoc]

The Mizunos will be far softer than the Titleists. The Titleists look better imo, and are usually far closer to spec from the factory in my experience than the Mizunos.

Having just ordered Mizunos, this concerns me. How materially off spec do you typically find them to be? If I get each club indvidually fitted, as I plan, should this take care of discrepancies?

[LyleG]

Special order fitted sets are usually fine. Off the rack sets can be awful.

[lorenzoinoc]

Special order fitted sets are usually fine. Off the rack sets can be awful.

I wonder if they get smacked around while at the distributor (insert mom joke). The fitter I went through has been extremely reliable in the past.

[LyleG]

You should also get your lofts and lies checked yearly with those as they will go out of spec quite easily.

[lorenzoinoc]

You should also get your lofts and lies checked yearly with those as they will go out of spec quite easily.

Thanks, I figured that out with my 60-s. Yearly was enough except for the 5. That thing needed almost constant checking, although one-half degree off and I'd feel uncomfortable with it. As soon as bent back, I'd hit it fine.

[Omen2]

yes the mizzy's off the rack should be immediately adjusted to specs. and often checked. ... speaking of which i need to have mine checked....

i looked at buying a loft/ lie machine so that i could do it as often as i like...

HOLY COW THOSE THINGS ARE EXPENSIVE.

[lorenzoinoc]

How much, if you recall?

[Omen2]

here's one example.

http://www.mitchellgolf.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1590

price at the very bottom in red

the cheapest i've seen them go for is on ebay at 800 bucks... but it was not this one... a stripped down version.

i just discovered this on golfsmith

http://www.golfsmith.com/products/8325

[lorenzoinoc]

Amazing. The machines don't look like much. Maybe I can convince my track to get one. It sure would be nice to be able to self check/bend.

[Omen2]

yeah they are super easy to use... if you have forged you may want to wrap a thin soft towelette around the clubhead to avoid indentations in the softer metal as much as possible..

every club should definitely have one.

Omen

[LyleG]

I have the golfsmith one. It is an excellent unit and very accurate. The Mitchells are way overpriced and no better.