The Dominator...The Legend...Kenny Perry

[The Purist]

KP is dominating the PGA tour right now.


KP blew away the field at the Travelers Championship yesterday, and is now the leader in the Fed Ex points race. He is the only player to win 5 times in the last year, and has now moved into 4th place on the World Golf Rankings. It is only a matter of time before KP hooks his way into the top spot.

KP is the highest all time PGA tour money winner not to win a major. Not unlike many of the rapper's in the 90's, KP is all about the money mayne (man in proper talk). Much respect KP. Unfortunately, I believe KP is about to hand this title over to someone else. Good players that can't win other majors always seem to slip up and win the British Open. I can't wait to see how Edgy reacts when Kenny Perry starts making out with the Claret Jug.

[Mr 3 Wiggle]

Too bad he didn't find his game until his late 40's. Must take half a lifetime to figure out how to time that awful swing of his.

[Horseballs]

That is great work, Purist. The British Open is clearly the most chopperesque of all the majors with such luminaries as Ben Curtis, Lawrie, and Harrington being able to close the deal through luck and fortunate bounces. Does KP even have a passport? The whole concept of those ancient links courses is downright laughable to someone who takes the game seriously. Dead flat, treeless goat tracks with huge gouges as sandtraps. Fairways that kick the ball any which way, potentially in the gorse based upon pure luck. Huge, slow greens that won't hold an iron shot. The British Open is a joke compare to the real Opens out there (US and Italian). To quote Nibbler, the British is the buggy whip of the third milleneum and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either a chopper-apologist or gay (probably both).

[Mr 3 Wiggle]

That is great work, Purist. The British Open is clearly the most chopperesque of all the majors with such luminaries as Ben Curtis, Lawrie, and Harrington being able to close the deal through luck and fortunate bounces. Does KP even have a passport? The whole concept of those ancient links courses is downright laughable to someone who takes the game seriously. Dead flat, treeless goat tracks with huge gouges as sandtraps. Fairways that kick the ball any which way, potentially in the gorse based upon pure luck. Huge, slow greens that won't hold an iron shot. The British Open is a joke compare to the real Opens out there (US and Italian). To quote Nibbler, the British is the buggy whip of the third milleneum and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either a chopper-apologist or gay (probably both).

But there are so many ways to play each course????

[Horseballs]

But there are so many ways to play each course????

As long as you run the ball up on the green. That seaside luckfest known as the British Open had its place back in the days of goat eaten fairways, but in the past 50 years it has become an obsolete anachronism for times of yore. As far as I'm concerned, professional golf should re-classify the majors and replace the BO with the The Players Championship. All 4 majors would be on US soil, and all the great players wouldn't be inconvenienced with having to fly overseas, eat crappy food, stay in terribly backwards accomodations, etc. in order to earn (not luck) their way into the history books.

[Mr 3 Wiggle]

As long as you run the ball up on the green. That seaside luckfest known as the British Open had its place back in the days of goat eaten fairways, but in the past 50 years it has become an obsolete anachronism for times of yore. As far as I'm concerned, professional golf should re-classify the majors and replace the BO with the The Players Championship. All 4 majors would be on US soil, and all the great players wouldn't be inconvenienced with having to fly overseas, eat crappy food, stay in terribly backwards accomodations, etc. in order to earn (not luck) their way into the history books.

What's funny is the typical pro hates going over there and playing. They only do it because they don't want to miss out on a major. If it were re-classified as a non-major, very few would go. That tells you the state of that tournament. If you did the same to the Masters...players would still beg to get in.

[The Purist]

Maybe its about time for the British Open to be demoted to a European Tour major. Its pretty much all about boring golf. Would you rather see the real ballers hitting towering shots into greens with a little bit of back up on them, or dudes hitting low skull shots that run up out of a crappy looking fairway.

[dorkman53]

What I always notice in the British Open is how bad the fairways are. They are often so brown that they would be a disgrace to any course in the US. It is truly an anachronistic look backward at the history of golf, but then, everybody plays the same course, so it sort of evens out the poor quality of some of the courses they use.
Perhaps the Royals would be incensed if they actually put an irrigation system into use on these hallowed courses.

[Kiwi Player]

Playing R7 irons this is no surprise at all.

[SDB1]

Hopefully someone was keeping a keen eye on him so that he wasn't able to cheat his way to victory by tamping down the grass in the rough with his wedge!

[Horseballs]

Hopefully someone was keeping a keen eye on him so that he wasn't able to cheat his way to victory by tamping down the grass in the rough with his wedge!

I'm pretty sure that no one at all was watching that B-Flight chopper event. Goydos/Perry battle for the title!! I'm sorry, but not even Billy Mays (RIP) could sell that hot pile of garbage.

[SDB1]

I'm pretty sure that no one at all was watching that B-Flight chopper event. Goydos/Perry battle for the title!! I'm sorry, but not even Billy Mays (RIP) could sell that hot pile of garbage.

Good point! I was watching Nationwide this weekend.

[The Purist]

Good point! I was watching Nationwide this weekend.

There might have been a more athletic field at the Nascar event in New Hampshire than at the Travelers.

[oldplayer]

You guys are a bunch of golfing ignormauses! The British Open is golf the way it was meant to be played. The game in it's pure form is obviously too difficult for you yanks to play. You have to have some good game to shoot a score on a windy day a the seaside links. You guys invented target golf with your soft greens and lush fairways. It may be easier, and make you guys look good, but it is a coruption and a pale imitation of the real game.

[dorkman53]

You guys are a bunch of golfing ignormauses! The British Open is golf the way it was meant to be played. The game in it's pure form is obviously too difficult for you yanks to play. You have to have some good game to shoot a score on a windy day a the seaside links. You guys invented target golf with your soft greens and lush fairways. It may be easier, and make you guys look good, but it is a coruption and a pale imitation of the real game.

Yeah, and playing on dead grass is "golf as it was meant to be played." Give me a break, oldtimer.

[Horseballs]

Face the facts, OP. The BO is a weak test of golf on an inferior golf course that consistently produces inferior champions. Old Tom Morris can basically suck my balls.

[oldplayer]

Oh and BTW Perry, or anyone else who can only rely on one shot shape could never win the open. It takes superior shot making skills just to get the ball on the green! That way tournaments don't just come down to putting contests as they are in the States. The only reason Perry won is because he putted better than anyone else, especially on the last nine. As for inferior champions, players who win the Open can do more than just putt or just hit shitty hooks into soft greens that would run into trouble on a course that was a decent test of golf.

[oldplayer]

Yeah, and playing on dead grass is "golf as it was meant to be played." Give me a break, oldtimer.

It's not dead, or manicured to within an inch of it's life. Yes, the original game, and the pure game is played that way.

[dorkman53]

It's not dead, or manicured to within an inch of it's life. Yes, the original game, and the pure game is played that way.

In the US, we've succumbed to the decadent luxury of watering our grass. That makes it stay green, instead of turning brown......

[edgey]

That is great work, Purist. The British Open is clearly the most chopperesque of all the majors with such luminaries as Ben Curtis, Lawrie, and Harrington being able to close the deal through luck and fortunate bounces. Does KP even have a passport? The whole concept of those ancient links courses is downright laughable to someone who takes the game seriously. Dead flat, treeless goat tracks with huge gouges as sandtraps. Fairways that kick the ball any which way, potentially in the gorse based upon pure luck. Huge, slow greens that won't hold an iron shot. The British Open is a joke compare to the real Opens out there (US and Italian). To quote Nibbler, the British is the buggy whip of the third milleneum and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either a chopper-apologist or gay (probably both).

ATTENTION WIGGLE

This is what i call IRONY

Edgey

[Not a hacker]

What's funny is the typical pro hates going over there and playing. They only do it because they don't want to miss out on a major. If it were re-classified as a non-major, very few would go. That tells you the state of that tournament. If you did the same to the Masters...players would still beg to get in.

By typical pro I take it you mean American chopper pros with no game or imagination, who would rather beat up on weak fields on courses that are reduced to pitch and putt contests by lush fairways and soft greens than play a course that makes you think and execute 'golf shots'. Guys like Hoch, Perry etc.

Maybe they should convert it to a once a year invitational on a boring little members track with painted green fairways, died blue lakes and contrived 'tradition' of less than 50 years, and hand the winner a garish green jacket that you wouldn't be game to wear even to a bachelor party. That should get some of those slack jawed chicken wing eating typical pros excited.

On the other side of the coin, HB may have a point about luck playing a predominent hand in the winner of the Open. Any tournament that renowned choker Norman could win twice did not come down to the ability to hold your nerve under the intensest examination of golfing skills.

DM, I know your brown grass comments was a flame so no biting. Even you Americans wouldn't be naive enough to realise that green doesn't mean perfect, and that the brown fairways of British and Australian courses in summer are renowned for their perfect carpet-like qualities. Would you?

[Tee'd Off]

That is great work, Purist. The British Open is clearly the most chopperesque of all the majors with such luminaries as Ben Curtis, Lawrie, and Harrington being able to close the deal through luck and fortunate bounces. Does KP even have a passport? The whole concept of those ancient links courses is downright laughable to someone who takes the game seriously. Dead flat, treeless goat tracks with huge gouges as sandtraps. Fairways that kick the ball any which way, potentially in the gorse based upon pure luck. Huge, slow greens that won't hold an iron shot. The British Open is a joke compare to the real Opens out there (US and Italian). To quote Nibbler, the British is the buggy whip of the third milleneum and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either a chopper-apologist or gay (probably both).

Your such an @SS.

[dorkman53]

By typical pro I take it you mean American chopper pros with no game or imagination, who would rather beat up on weak fields on courses that are reduced to pitch and putt contests by lush fairways and soft greens than play a course that makes you think and execute 'golf shots'. Guys like Hoch, Perry etc.

Maybe they should convert it to a once a year invitational on a boring little members track with painted green fairways, died blue lakes and contrived 'tradition' of less than 50 years, and hand the winner a garish green jacket that you wouldn't be game to wear even to a bachelor party. That should get some of those slack jawed chicken wing eating typical pros excited.

On the other side of the coin, HB may have a point about luck playing a predominent hand in the winner of the Open. Any tournament that renowned choker Norman could win twice did not come down to the ability to hold your nerve under the intensest examination of golfing skills.

DM, I know your brown grass comments was a flame so no biting. Even you Americans wouldn't be naive enough to realise that green doesn't mean perfect, and that the brown fairways of British and Australian courses in summer are renowned for their perfect carpet-like qualities. Would you?

I admit, I mainly wanted to annoy Oldplayer, who was coming across with that pompous attitude of his.

[Not a hacker]

I admit, I mainly wanted to annoy Oldplayer, who was coming across with that pompous attitude of his.

I thought as much. I only wsh a committee member of Augusta would join up here. I could get some real action going with one of them.

[lorenzoinoc]

You can't have The Players' Championship as the fourth major. It's a Pete Dye course for Christ's sake.

I nominate the Italian Open as the GR fourth major.

[lorenzoinoc]

Too bad he didn't find his game until his late 40's. Must take half a lifetime to figure out how to time that awful swing of his.

That and because his cheating in the rough took time to perfect.

[Not a hacker]

I think the Italian Open should stand alone as the one true major.

John Daly runner up + both Molanaris in field = major championship of world.

The scheduling of the Players Championship in Italian Open week has resigned it to the weak field grand slam along with the John Deere, Valero Texas Open, and whatever other second tier tournaments KP wins during major weeks.

[oldplayer]

I admit, I mainly wanted to annoy Oldplayer, who was coming across with that pompous attitude of his.

Hey wait a minute! You guys started it. I was only defending the British and to some extent the Aussie form of the game which is often palyed on more natural ground. This was of course a necessity before the days of mass mechanical earthmoving. This playing of the game on linksland was the original way, I concede the game and courses evolve over time, but that does not necessarily mean that the old way has no merit.
As for being pompous Dorkman, I have been called many things, but never that. I am just a simple working man trying to make an honest living.
Sometimes you guys have got to realize the "American way" is not always the only way.

[Kiwi Player]

Hey wait a minute! You guys started it. I was only defending the British and to some extent the Aussie form of the game which is often palyed on more natural ground. This was of course a necessity before the days of mass mechanical earthmoving. This playing of the game on linksland was the original way, I concede the game and courses evolve over time, but that does not necessarily mean that the old way has no merit.
As for being pompous Dorkman, I have been called many things, but never that. I am just a simple working man trying to make an honest living.
Sometimes you guys have got to realize the "American way" is not always the only way.

Don't sweat it Old Player. I'm sure it was just a playful, friendly jibe from Dorkman, particularly as his first post about brown grass was several hours before you joined the discussion.

Don't rise to the bait. Just sit back and marvel at the insularity of our American friends and their 'typical pro golfers who hate having to cross the ditch and leave behind the comforts of Momma's home cookin'.

[oldplayer]

Don't sweat it Old Player. I'm sure it was just a playful, friendly jibe from Dorkman, particularly as his first post about brown grass was several hours before you joined the discussion.

Don't rise to the bait. Just sit back and marvel at the insularity of our American friends and their 'typical pro golfers who hate having to cross the ditch and leave behind the comforts of Momma's home cookin'.

Thanks for the good advise Kiwi. Although I quite like having a go. It feels good to get the blood flowing in the old body.
I think however it is an interesting debate. I think the game is not served well by the design and nature of golf the American way. The pro tour there has largely turned into a bomb and gouge affair without the variety of shotmaking required on links courses. The deft touch and runs, the low running ball, dealing with the windy conditions and subtleties of playing on undulating firm ground is the beauty of the traditional game.

[Pky6471]

KP is a great old player, he can beat the field when he's hot and when his putter is on, so give him the credits when it's due... He can beat ALL of us, so just don't stay on the sideline and BS, period

[Horseballs]

It's not dead, or manicured to within an inch of it's life. Yes, the original game, and the pure game is played that way.

The "pure" game would be played with featheries and niblicks and spoons by unathletic Scotsmen wearing suits or skirts. We've come a long way. It's time we drop our collective reverence of this quirky little luckfest. The last thing we need is another Todd Hamilton hoisting a "major" trophy.

[lorenzoinoc]

Wait a minute, Todd Hamilton's proven to be the best hybrid player ever. I think it was the only club he used in winning the BO, even while putting. I'm pretty sure he uses hybrids as eating utensils.

[lorenzoinoc]

Hey wait a minute! You guys started it. I was only defending the British and to some extent the Aussie form of the game which is often palyed on more natural ground. This was of course a necessity before the days of mass mechanical earthmoving. This playing of the game on linksland was the original way, I concede the game and courses evolve over time, but that does not necessarily mean that the old way has no merit.
As for being pompous Dorkman, I have been called many things, but never that. I am just a simple working man trying to make an honest living.
Sometimes you guys have got to realize the "American way" is not always the only way.

It took Dorkman 6,300 posts to turn to the dark side. If I'd been his first trolling and flaming victim, I'd have probably been sucked in too.

[lorenzoinoc]

I think the Italian Open should stand alone as the one true major.

John Daly runner up + both Molanaris in field = major championship of world.

The scheduling of the Players Championship in Italian Open week has resigned it to the weak field grand slam along with the John Deere, Valero Texas Open, and whatever other second tier tournaments KP wins during major weeks.

Stated to perfection.

[dorkman53]

It took Dorkman 6,300 posts to turn to the dark side. If I'd been his first trolling and flaming victim, I'd have probably been sucked in too.

I was just a bit amused and disgusted with the "golf as it was meant to be played" idea. Yeah, I just love playing golf in a lot of wind, where the greens won't hold an iron shot. I've played on courses in high winds around my area where, when hitting downwind, I've deliberately come up short 10 or 15 yards to the green, and still had the ball roll completely through the green and on out the backside. Now THAT'S Golf as it was meant to be played!!

[lorenzoinoc]

Don't minimize it. You're nickname is now Omen3.

[Horseballs]

I was just a bit amused and disgusted with the "golf as it was meant to be played" idea. Yeah, I just love playing golf in a lot of wind, where the greens won't hold an iron shot. I've played on courses in high winds around my area where, when hitting downwind, I've deliberately come up short 10 or 15 yards to the green, and still had the ball roll completely through the green and on out the backside. Now THAT'S Golf as it was meant to be played!!

Got to agree with 'Zo on this one. I thought you were venturing into flame territory, but now we found out that you truly hate links golf? Next time, you've got to come really strong with an opinion that will offend at least 50% of the board. There are numerous examples in this thread alone. We'll work through this...

[dorkman53]

Got to agree with 'Zo on this one. I thought you were venturing into flame territory, but now we found out that you truly hate links golf? Next time, you've got to come really strong with an opinion that will offend at least 50% of the board. There are numerous examples in this thread alone. We'll work through this...

Where is it written in the corporate bylaws of GR that hating to play in high winds and wanting to razz Oldfart are mutually exclusive propositions?
And I do find it aesthetically displeasing to see brown grass at the British Open, (no, I won't refer to it as "The Open") no matter what the actual turf conditions might be. It looks like somebody didn't pay the water bill.

[Kiwi Player]

It looks like somebody didn't pay the water bill.

Dorkman what you have to remember is that it rains so much in the UK that the course designers never dreamed that fairway watering would be necessary. So when they strike an unusual summer where they actually encounter a spell of warm, dry weather it catches them all off guard and creates the picturesque, brown, treeless, barren landscape that we are all treated to on TV. I think Hoy lake was the worst in recent memory. It looked more like the Dubai desert classic. Didn't it rain or threaten to most of the time at last years BO? Meaning the course was still barren, treeless & windswept but at least the grass was green(ish).

[oldplayer]

Where is it written in the corporate bylaws of GR that hating to play in high winds and wanting to razz Oldfart are mutually exclusive propositions?
And I do find it aesthetically displeasing to see brown grass at the British Open, (no, I won't refer to it as "The Open") no matter what the actual turf conditions might be. It looks like somebody didn't pay the water bill.

Dorkman, why didn't you just say you don't like playing in wind! I can understand that golf is a hard game, and you prefer it to be made easy for you. Having your ball plop on the green like a cherry landing in a bowl of custard would make things more managable; but surely with those flashy Scratch wedges you should be able to spin the ball, even downwind.
Thank you so much for your concerted attention. I am very pleased to have the honor of being the first trolling victim of such a highly esteemed and prolific poster.

[SDB1]

Where is it written in the corporate bylaws of GR that hating to play in high winds and wanting to razz Oldfart are mutually exclusive propositions?
And I do find it aesthetically displeasing to see brown grass at the British Open, (no, I won't refer to it as "The Open") no matter what the actual turf conditions might be. It looks like somebody didn't pay the water bill.

For the record you should only refer to the BO as "The Open" if you live there. The same applies to the U.S. Open if you live in the States. The insistence by the Brits that the rest of the world call the BO "The Open" just reinforces their general snobbery!

[Strick]

I'd like to see a "Super Major" along a similar pattern as the Olympics. Make it an annual event with countries bidding for the rights with a maximim once every 10 year return clause so it gets spread around instead of just USA and Western Europe. Let the rest of the world get a piece of the pie. I'm sure Australia, South Africa, Japan, Argentina, any many others would appreciate inclusion.

[NiftyNiblick]

For the record you should only refer to the BO as "The Open" if you live there. The same applies to the U.S. Open if you live in the States. The insistence by the Brits that the rest of the world call the BO "The Open" just reinforces their general snobbery!

I like to say USGA Open Championship, USGA Amateur Championship, R&A Open Championship, and R&A Amateur Championship.

That deprives them of their snobby unqualified appellations in a way that they can't refute.

[CPS]

Thanks for the good advise Kiwi. Although I quite like having a go. It feels good to get the blood flowing in the old body.
I think however it is an interesting debate. I think the game is not served well by the design and nature of golf the American way. The pro tour there has largely turned into a bomb and gouge affair without the variety of shotmaking required on links courses. The deft touch and runs, the low running ball, dealing with the windy conditions and subtleties of playing on undulating firm ground is the beauty of the traditional game.

Sort of agree. Americans have certainly taken on a “home run” approach to the game. It’s all about out distance and physical conditioning and seeing how far you can pound the piss out of each club. Some senior tour pros drive 30-40 yards farther than they did when they were 30 years old. What the frick is that?

Now by default everyone, especially amateurs, are putting way less emphasis on shot shaping. Instead of working on low stringers, or hard fades, or any kind of “artistic” approach to real golf shots. It is really all about bomb and gouge. Be honest, the only part of the shot people are paying attention to is how far it goes.

Blades are easier to shape then cavity backs…
Long-irons are easier to shape than hybrids…
Yet we see steady decline in the use of these classic shot-shaping clubs?

Hmmm… connection?

[dorkman53]

Sort of agree. Americans have certainly taken on a “home run” approach to the game. It’s all about out distance and physical conditioning and seeing how far you can pound the piss out of each club. Some senior tour pros drive 30-40 yards farther than they did when they were 30 years old. What the frick is that?

Now by default everyone, especially amateurs, are putting way less emphasis on shot shaping. Instead of working on low stringers, or hard fades, or any kind of “artistic” approach to real golf shots. It is really all about bomb and gouge. Be honest, the only part of the shot people are paying attention to is how far it goes.

Blades are easier to shape then cavity backs…
Long-irons are easier to shape than hybrids…
Yet we see steady decline in the use of these classic shot-shaping clubs?

Hmmm… connection?

PGA golfers aren't stupid, with a few notable exceptions. If the courses were changed to reward certain types of shots on a regular basis, they can quickly adapt their methods. The pros are simply pragmatic, and know what rewards their bottom line.

[oldplayer]

PGA golfers aren't stupid, with a few notable exceptions. If the courses were changed to reward certain types of shots on a regular basis, they can quickly adapt their methods. The pros are simply pragmatic, and know what rewards their bottom line.

I agree. But what about the proposition that bomb and gouge is in some ways an inferior form of the game?

[dorkman53]

I agree. But what about the proposition that bomb and gouge is in some ways an inferior form of the game?

"Superior game" vs. "inferior game" takes a back seat to the money list, I'd guess. What would YOU do if you were in their shoes? Be a doctrinaire traditionalist, or take home an extra few hundred thousand dollars each year?

[Not a hacker]

Kenny fukcn Perry winning another second rate weak field event. Is he even taking his oversized head and undersized game to the UK this year? Or is he happy to just stay in the good ol Us of A and keep cheating his arse off and feasting on second rate fields?

Perry is one of the few human beings I'd be happy to beat to a pulp just on spec. If I actually got to know him I'd probably be less polite.

[oldplayer]

"Superior game" vs. "inferior game" takes a back seat to the money list, I'd guess. What would YOU do if you were in their shoes? Be a doctrinaire traditionalist, or take home an extra few hundred thousand dollars each year?

I guess what I am really trying to get to is the comparison between traditional links courses and the well irrigated, soft and pretty courses which are probably the dominant design in the U.S.
The differences in the type of game required to succeed on the respective courses is the essence of what I am talking about. I still believe that the links game is the more interesting, creative and artful form of the game.
The American game is more about power, with distance and carry being the dominant factors.
Sure, the short game has to be very good in both forms of the game although I believe there is more variety of short game skills in the links game. Long lush rough is the theme in America and a lot of the short game is about being good with a lob wedge, but in links golf you had better be able to play all the different short game shots. This is just an example of what I am talking about. Golf U.S. style simply lacks the subtlety and nuance of the traditional links game.

[FreakOfNature]

I guess what I am really trying to get to is the comparison between traditional links courses and the well irrigated, soft and pretty courses which are probably the dominant design in the U.S.
The differences in the type of game required to succeed on the respective courses is the essence of what I am talking about. I still believe that the links game is the more interesting, creative and artful form of the game.
The American game is more about power, with distance and carry being the dominant factors.
Sure, the short game has to be very good in both forms of the game although I believe there is more variety of short game skills in the links game. Long lush rough is the theme in America and a lot of the short game is about being good with a lob wedge, but in links golf you had better be able to play all the different short game shots. This is just an example of what I am talking about. Golf U.S. style simply lacks the subtlety and nuance of the traditional links game.

That's the true beauty of links golf, isn't it OP - the short game creativity. None of this gouging out of deep rough 3' from the green.

The ground game is underrated as a way to increase the difficulty of a course without needing to push the tees back and have the course play over 7300 yards. Look at Pinehurst No.2 as an example - very little rough around the greens, lots of swales and contours, interesting and natural looking green complexes... just the sheer number of options players must contemplate to recover are enough to sometimes force mental errors.

The wind and weather on typical links courses is what takes all the fun out of the game.



FON

[Horseballs]

That's the true beauty of links golf, isn't it OP - the short game creativity. None of this gouging out of deep rough 3' from the green.

The ground game is underrated as a way to increase the difficulty of a course without needing to push the tees back and have the course play over 7300 yards. Look at Pinehurst No.2 as an example - very little rough around the greens, lots of swales and contours, interesting and natural looking green complexes... just the sheer number of options players must contemplate to recover are enough to sometimes force mental errors.

The wind and weather on typical links courses is what takes all the fun out of the game.



FON

I think we just don't have the conditions suitable for links golf in the majority of the landmass in the US. I've played Spanish Bay which is considered one of the most true US links courses and thought it played easy when I played it on a non-windy day. The geography for the most part determines the style of course. I live in an area where parkland is the suitable course style. We do have a "links" course fairly close by and the owners try their best to make it play firm and fast. It's fun to play because you really have to adjust your style instead of just trying to fly the ball to the hole. But they can't replicate the wind, which is rarely a steady 25mph.

[lorenzoinoc]

There is an excellent links style course right next to the airport in Oakland, CA. The only issue is it's ex-landfill and you can smell the old garbage at times (although that could just be Oakland). There's also a police shooting range adjacent so if you don't like the threat of richochets it might not be for you. Although I haven't been for 3 or 4 years.

But Bandon is the best links I've played. And you can actually get food there.

[oldplayer]

I think we just don't have the conditions suitable for links golf in the majority of the landmass in the US. I've played Spanish Bay which is considered one of the most true US links courses and thought it played easy when I played it on a non-windy day. The geography for the most part determines the style of course. I live in an area where parkland is the suitable course style. We do have a "links" course fairly close by and the owners try their best to make it play firm and fast. It's fun to play because you really have to adjust your style instead of just trying to fly the ball to the hole. But they can't replicate the wind, which is rarely a steady 25mph.

Good point HB, isn't Whistling Straits an example of a course that gets a bit of wind?
It dosen't blow all the time in countries where links golf is played, and that certainly makes things easier, but playing on firm, "natural" ground is a different concept that can still be applied without excessive beezes. BTW if you want to experience the game often played in windy conditions come to Australia and play!

[Horseballs]

Good point HB, isn't Whistling Straits an example of a course that gets a bit of wind?
It dosen't blow all the time in countries where links golf is played, and that certainly makes things easier, but playing on firm, "natural" ground is a different concept that can still be applied without excessive beezes. BTW if you want to experience the game often played in windy conditions come to Australia and play!

We've got mad wind in the summer in Texas and the winter in Florida. I play OK when the wind is strong yet consistent. We get gusts where the wind either picks up significantly or changes direction altogether. Those days aren't fun when playing a target golf course with hazards to be flown.

[lorenzoinoc]

The potential exists for great links golf in Hawaii. All the conditions exist. But noone's really tried to do it. The closest is probably Kapalua.

[FreakOfNature]

I think we just don't have the conditions suitable for links golf in the majority of the landmass in the US. I've played Spanish Bay which is considered one of the most true US links courses and thought it played easy when I played it on a non-windy day. The geography for the most part determines the style of course. I live in an area where parkland is the suitable course style. We do have a "links" course fairly close by and the owners try their best to make it play firm and fast. It's fun to play because you really have to adjust your style instead of just trying to fly the ball to the hole. But they can't replicate the wind, which is rarely a steady 25mph.

It's pretty much the same here. I think the closest we can get to linksland type tracks are the prairie courses.

Sand Hills in Nebraska designed by Coore/Crenshaw would be what I would consider the closest we can get in North America to the authentic links courses of Britain.

There's a whole bunch of prime real estate all over the prairies which would make for some amazing courses.



FON

[oldplayer]

It's pretty much the same here. I think the closest we can get to linksland type tracks are the prairie courses.

Sand Hills in Nebraska designed by Coore/Crenshaw would be what I would consider the closest we can get in North America to the authentic links courses of Britain.

There's a whole bunch of prime real estate all over the prairies which would make for some amazing courses.



FON

Well chop-chop boys, let's get moving.
You can now use your talent and influence to start a links course movement in the U.S.
Play the traditional game as well as your version.
Variety is the spice of life!

[Horseballs]

The potential exists for great links golf in Hawaii. All the conditions exist. But noone's really tried to do it. The closest is probably Kapalua.

Kind of, but Kapalua is in its own category. A links course on the side of a mountain. The Plantation course is like a links course where everything is magnified. Monster length, huge fairways, huge greens, etc. It took me about 6 holes to throw yardage out of the equation for shot selection. Going down the mountain, a chip shot might roll out to 220 yards.

[lorenzoinoc]

Agreed. Links on a mountain. Which is great, but it is pretty different.

I can think of few courses that are reminiscent of true UK style links courses insofar as the food is abysmal. The golf itself however isn't similar.

[Kiwi Player]

Well chop-chop boys, let's get moving.
You can now use your talent and influence to start a links course movement in the U.S.
Play the traditional game as well as your version.
Variety is the spice of life!

I have two great courses near where I live, one links style the other the more American style and I have to say that for an interesting, different, one off challenge I enjoy playing the links course. But if it was my normal weekly course that I play regularly every Saturday I would take the American style any time. It is a beautiful course with trees, ponds, streams etc. the links style course (designed by Jack Nicholas BTW) is just carved out of an old sheep paddock, barren and windswept and not a tree in site. As I said, interesting occasionally but I wouldn't want to play that style all the time.

[oldplayer]

Good comment Kiwi, I think variety is great and we don't need a tough challenge all the time.
I suppose links golf is alive and well, perhaps just not as prevalent in the States. It would be a pity if in the future the artfulness of the traditional game was lost.
What did you think about the comment on equipment earlier in this tread. About the demise of long irons etc. I thought it was interesting and not drawing too much of a long bow. We had a thread didn't we about the design of equipment and their influence on course design? (or visa versa.)

[Horseballs]

Good comment Kiwi, I think variety is great and we don't need a tough challenge all the time.
I suppose links golf is alive and well, perhaps just not as prevalent in the States. It would be a pity if in the future the artfulness of the traditional game was lost.
What did you think about the comment on equipment earlier in this tread. About the demise of long irons etc. I thought it was interesting and not drawing too much of a long bow. We had a thread didn't we about the design of equipment and their influence on course design? (or visa versa.)

But OP, links golf is a piece of cake without the elements. This is born out every time you've got a somewhat passable day at the BO. You get links-style wind on a tough parkland course and you can forget about shooting a good score, whereas you can still scrape it around on the links.

[oldplayer]

But OP, links golf is a piece of cake without the elements. This is born out every time you've got a somewhat passable day at the BO. You get links-style wind on a tough parkland course and you can forget about shooting a good score, whereas you can still scrape it around on the links.

Fair enough.
Far be it from me to argue with a sage who has over 4000 posts!

[Not a hacker]

I used to be member of Belmont Golf Club for about 4 years about 15 years ago. For those unfamiliar with the name, it is the host club of the Lake Macquarrie Amatuer, which is considered one of the leading 72 hole amatuer events in the world, and has an honour board that includes Ogilvy and Brett Ogle and had a young Mark O'Meara cmpeting there in the past. It is a course that is right next to the ocean but has about 7 holes that go inland, so it is a combination of links and parkland. I still miss playing there and have a game whenever I get the chance. IMO nothing in golf compares to playing links golf on a moderately windy day. I didn't enjoy it much there when the wind really got up as it was absolutely impossible to play, but when the wind got up a little bit but the course was still playable it was a pleasure to have wide open spaces to aim at, and to be creative with course management and around the greens, instead of having the designer dictate how to play the course by positions of hazards and bunkers. The down side was that when it was still it did become a little on the boring side, but like most links courses the greens were big and fast so it still had teeth. One thing about links play is that it seperates the ball strikers and shotmakers from the choppers. There was a premium on controlling ball flight, and any gay faders were sorted out pretty quickly when the wind got up.

[Kiwi Player]

...it separates the ball strikers and shotmakers from the choppers, any gay faders were sorted out pretty quickly.

Is that why you left and joined the pitch n' putt?

[Not a hacker]

Is that why you left and joined the pitch n' putt?

I actually credit my ballstriking to my years at Belmont. I think being a member of a course like that would do wonders for anyone's ball striking. The reason I left is because I was living in Syndey and wasn't going back home that way every weekend so I joined a club down here (but not the pitch and putt goat track I currently play).

[daveperkins]

It took Dorkman 6,300 posts to turn to the dark side.

So you're saying this time Dorkman is really dead?

[GoHuskers]

I didn't see it in here so I'll just throw it out there. KP deserves some credit because he made some hot daughters. Credit where credit is due.

[TexasJeff]

Wait a minute, Todd Hamilton's proven to be the best hybrid player ever. I think it was the only club he used in winning the BO, even while putting. I'm pretty sure he uses hybrids as eating utensils.

Um, is there something wrong with that? Hell I sleep with my hybrid. I call her Laverne.

[dorkman53]

Um, is there something wrong with that? Hell I sleep with my hybrid. I call her Laverne.

What a coincidence. I call mine Shirley......

[Not a hacker]

Shuldn't your hybrids have male names?

[dorkman53]

Shuldn't your hybrids have male names?

Shirley you can't be serious.....

[CPS]

Good comment Kiwi, I think variety is great and we don't need a tough challenge all the time.
I suppose links golf is alive and well, perhaps just not as prevalent in the States. It would be a pity if in the future the artfulness of the traditional game was lost.
What did you think about the comment on equipment earlier in this tread. About the demise of long irons etc. I thought it was interesting and not drawing too much of a long bow. We had a thread didn't we about the design of equipment and their influence on course design? (or visa versa.)

I’m happy that 59 year-old Tom Watson decided to answer everything brought up in this thread by hanging a 65 on the links. This is exactly what we were talking about the “lost art” of real golf to today’s bomber game.

Tom is way too polite, but how cool would it be for him to have told his playing partner Sergio Garcia, “how many majors would YOU have if you had any skill other than landing a 4-iron on a dime on a soft green?” “Learn some ball control, kid.”

That’s a lesson for all of us.

[oldplayer]

I’m happy that 59 year-old Tom Watson decided to answer everything brought up in this thread by hanging a 65 on the links. This is exactly what we were talking about the “lost art” of real golf to today’s bomber game.

Tom is way too polite, but how cool would it be for him to have told his playing partner Sergio Garcia, “how many majors would YOU have if you had any skill other than landing a 4-iron on a dime on a soft green?” “Learn some ball control, kid.”

That’s a lesson for all of us.

Here here!! Good comment and all I can say is GO TOM!! Even though he won't make the distance it would be fantastic to this gentleman, and icon of the game keep playing well.

[Not a hacker]

I'm no fan of Tom Watson the person, but I must concur it's great to see him give Sergio a lesson in links golf.

[Kiwi Player]

I’m happy that 59 year-old Tom Watson decided to answer everything brought up in this thread by hanging a 65 on the links. This is exactly what we were talking about the “lost art” of real golf to today’s bomber game.

Tom is way too polite, but how cool would it be for him to have told his playing partner Sergio Garcia, “how many majors would YOU have if you had any skill other than landing a 4-iron on a dime on a soft green?” “Learn some ball control, kid.”

That’s a lesson for all of us.

The Shark gave some of these young guns a similar lesson in shotmaking last year before inevitably choking on the last day.

Watson's round was a pleasure to watch.

[Horseballs]

In honor of the British Open, I present to you this fantastic thread from 2 years ago.

[lorenzoinoc]

In honor of the British Open, I present to you this fantastic thread from 2 years ago.

Yeah, good thread.

You know, if you'd been just a little bit nicer to Dorkman, he'd still be here.

[Horseballs]

Yeah, good thread.

You know, if you'd been just a little bit nicer to Dorkman, he'd still be here.

I know. I really thought he turned the corner and developed a sense of humor in this thread, but it was only premature ejaculation.

[lorenzoinoc]

I know. I really thought he turned the corner and developed a sense of humor in this thread, but it was only premature ejaculation.

He just seemed funny at times because of the drugs, the huge smoking pipe and the wig.

[SoonerBS]

Where the hell did Texas Jeff go to? I don't remember us pissing him off and he sure didn't strike me as the shottalk type of guy?