Full Circle

[Jeff_h]

I started my "career" in golf forums here almost 10 years ago.

I was a founder and co-owner of DG.

I killed DG because of the actions of one fecking retarded liberal jackass.

Lots of things have changed in 10 years. It doesn't look like much has changed here. I think that's funny.

Anyway, if you have forged clubs, don't hit off mats. Also, the best way to put a tour grind on the sole of a wedge is to use a bench grinder. Before you do that though, realize that if you have chrome wedges, the finish is gonna get fecked up.

LOL

Oh.....hi Tim.

[ProStatus]

A career in golf forums..................sooo you get paid to post lame BS. And then you give some cockwade advise on when and where to use forged clubs and how to grind a wedge. In essence you have built a 10 yr career on some old BS opinions that even a hacker would know

[SoonerBS]

I started my "career" in golf forums here almost 10 years ago.

I was a founder and co-owner of DG.

I killed DG because of the actions of one fecking retarded liberal jackass.

Lots of things have changed in 10 years. It doesn't look like much has changed here. I think that's funny.

Anyway, if you have forged clubs, don't hit off mats. Also, the best way to put a tour grind on the sole of a wedge is to use a bench grinder. Before you do that though, realize that if you have chrome wedges, the finish is gonna get fecked up.

LOL

Oh.....hi Tim.

You were the founder and co-owner of Dicks & Gays? I don't find that a whole lot to brag about myself . . . .

[Not a hacker]

A career in golf forums..................sooo you get paid to post lame BS. And then you give some cockwade advise on when and where to use forged clubs and how to grind a wedge. In essence you have built a 10 yr career on some old BS opinions that even a hacker would know

This sounds remarkably like someone else on this forum. Can't quite put my finger on who.

[spanqdoggie]

I bought some custom clubs from Jeff and a driver that I still use today ten years ago, or so, when he was on this forum...

Jeff is an honest business man, although he does not sell clubs anymore, I believe. In real life he is like 6 foot 6 inches tall or something and he does construction; he could probably kick 4 or 5 of our asses at the same time.

Where is my popcorn smilie, because I feel sorry for whomever Jeff decides to own here; he comes wit' da knowledge too.

Damn, Jeff scares me sh!tless and you all are rewriting The Lord of the Rings... You guys are like the hobbits in the bar that start a fight with Strider instead of accepting his help.

[dorkman53]

Jeff, if this is really you, and not somebody stealing your identity, by all means, WELCOME BACK. Here is someone who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to clubs and clubfitting; something sorely needed on this board.

[Not a hacker]

Jeff, if this is really you, and not somebody stealing your identity, by all means, WELCOME BACK. Here is someone who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to clubs and clubfitting; something sorely needed on this board.

This comment directed at anyone in particular?

[dorkman53]

This comment directed at anyone in particular?

My, you're touchy today.
Sorry if I struck a sore nerve.
Jeff has been (is still??) a reputable clubmaker with a lot of factual information, in contrast to a lot of the strongly voiced opinions with no first hand experience or factual basis, as can frequently be heard on this board.

[lorenzoinoc]

Jeff, if this is really you, and not somebody stealing your identity, by all means, WELCOME BACK. Here is someone who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to clubs and clubfitting; something sorely needed on this board.

This doesn't bode well for you and your $600 wedges. I'd hate to see you stripped naked again.

[Not a hacker]

My, you're touchy today.
Sorry if I struck a sore nerve.
Jeff has been (is still??) a reputable clubmaker with a lot of factual information, in contrast to a lot of the strongly voiced opinions with no first hand experience or factual basis, as can frequently be heard on this board.

No raw nerves here, I was actually referring to another just returned member who purports to be a clubmaker.

[BURNDOG]

This doesn't bode well for you and your $600 wedges. I'd hate to see you stripped naked again.

beat me to it there loz.

so jeff what do you think of paying $6000 dollars for one wedge, ungripped?

[daveperkins]

I bought some custom clubs from Jeff and a driver that I still use today ten years ago, or so, when he was on this forum....

Spank, I"m sure sorry you can't afford newer clubs. You're showing some dedication to the game though, showing up to play with clubs like that. I salute you.

[groundhogday]

This doesn't bode well for you and your $600 wedges. I'd hate to see you stripped naked again.

Does the professional grind cost extra or is it included? Does it incude the shaft and grip or just the Head? Seem like you could get a little head alot cheaper IMO.
GHD

[The Purist]

I started my "career" in golf forums here almost 10 years ago.

I was a founder and co-owner of DG.

I killed DG because of the actions of one fecking retarded liberal jackass.

Lots of things have changed in 10 years. It doesn't look like much has changed here. I think that's funny.

Anyway, if you have forged clubs, don't hit off mats. Also, the best way to put a tour grind on the sole of a wedge is to use a bench grinder. Before you do that though, realize that if you have chrome wedges, the finish is gonna get fecked up.

LOL

Oh.....hi Tim.

OMG...This is crazy. I have been following you from forum to forum for years. Welcome back.

What did the retarded liberal jackass do? It only takes one bad apple.....

[SoonerBS]

I bought some custom clubs from Jeff and a driver that I still use today ten years ago, or so, when he was on this forum...

Jeff is an honest business man, although he does not sell clubs anymore, I believe. In real life he is like 6 foot 6 inches tall or something and he does construction; he could probably kick 4 or 5 of our asses at the same time.

Where is my popcorn smilie, because I feel sorry for whomever Jeff decides to own here; he comes wit' da knowledge too.

Damn, Jeff scares me sh!tless and you all are rewriting The Lord of the Rings... You guys are like the hobbits in the bar that start a fight with Strider instead of accepting his help.

It's not like that at all, Spank. Allow me a story here:

There once was a pasture full of young heifers that were sired by 3 herd bulls. One day the 3 bulls were huddled up talking to each other.

"I hear the boss is bringing in a new guy today," the middle aged bull said to the other two bulls.

"He will not be getting any of my heifers, " the oldest bull said.

"He won't be getting any of my heifers, either," the youngest bull proclaimed.

About that time a cattle trailer pulled into the pasture and there was a huge racket going on within it behind the trailer door. The farmer stepped out of the truck and swung open the trailer door letting out one of the biggest, meanest bulls the whole herd had ever witnessed. The big bull immediately jumped out and started pawing the ground, bellowing insanely and slinging snot all over the place.

The two oldest pasture bulls started scampering away towards the opposite end of the pasture in fear whenever they noticed junior pawing the ground and bellering at the big bull in response.

"Junior, what the hell are you doing? You can't whip that big bull!" the oldest bull hollered at him.

"I don't expect to whip him, " Junior exclaimed, "I just don't want him thinking I am one of his heifers!"

[Jeff_h]

A career in golf forums..................sooo you get paid to post lame BS. And then you give some cockwade advise on when and where to use forged clubs and how to grind a wedge. In essence you have built a 10 yr career on some old BS opinions that even a hacker would know

How old are you?

Have you not had high school English yet or are you just stupid?

You obviously have a hard time grasping not only sarcasm, but proper usage of quotation marks.

Seriously dude, if that's all you got (improper English there on purpose)....go home.

[lorenzoinoc]

Seems as though the guys that are here from long ago all have a thing about proper use of quotation marks.

[Jeff_h]

Jeff, if this is really you, and not somebody stealing your identity, by all means, WELCOME BACK. Here is someone who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to clubs and clubfitting; something sorely needed on this board.

Yeah DM, it's me.

Battle scarred but much wiser!

LOL!!

Thanks for the props.

[Jeff_h]

beat me to it there loz.

so jeff what do you think of paying $6000 dollars for one wedge, ungripped?

If it does what you expect it too, makes you feel special and you don't have a problem laying out the smack, who gives a rat's a$$ how much it costs? It's not your money, WTF should you care? Jealous?

[SoonerBS]

Seems as though the guys that are here from long ago all have a thing about proper use of quotation marks.

Now that you have brought it up, our local Grammar Nazi, Dorkman, hasn't corrected anybody in a long time. Either we are all getting a lot better at our grammar, or he is falling down on the job.

[Jeff_h]

Seems as though the guys that are here from long ago all have a thing about proper use of quotation marks.

It's not so much that......

It's more when someone tries to be a wise-a$$ but just comes off looking retarded.

My apologies to Sarah Palin,

[Jeff_h]

OMG...This is crazy. I have been following you from forum to forum for years. Welcome back.

What did the retarded liberal jackass do? It only takes one bad apple.....

See......now this was funny! Not stupid, just a nice little use of sarcastic wit.

Take note Master Bater......you could learn something from this guy.

Oh....isn't being a "retarded liberal jackass" enough?

[Not a hacker]

How old are you?

Have you not had high school English yet or are you just stupid?

You obviously have a hard time grasping not only sarcasm, but proper usage of quotation marks.

Seriously dude, if that's all you got (improper English there on purpose)....go home.

You may have been away for a whle Jeff, but it didn't take you long to pick up on PS. Unfortunately for you and the rest of us he is all of the above.

[ProStatus]

How old are you?

Have you not had high school English yet or are you just stupid?

You obviously have a hard time grasping not only sarcasm, but proper usage of quotation marks.

Seriously dude, if that's all you got (improper English there on purpose)....go home.

See here is the thing Jeff.............I purpusly use bad grahmer cuz it pisses off guys lik u and this forum is so full of shite that I relly dont think its nesasary to use spell chek or proper grahmer. Its just shites and giggles 4 me when im on the internet checking emails and shipping statises of me products...............I could give a donkeys azz if your some old club maker with some knowledge of the game and equipment..................Guess what im a club maker too and ill leave your azz broke as hell after 18 holes of golf. Now go and spell check this post and let me know how well I did on the grammer

[Jeff_h]

See here is the thing Jeff.............I purpusly use bad grahmer cuz it pisses off guys lik u and this forum is so full of shite that I relly dont think its nesasary to use spell chek or proper grahmer. Its just shites and giggles 4 me when im on the internet checking emails and shipping statises of me products...............I could give a donkeys azz if your some old club maker with some knowledge of the game and equipment..................Guess what im a club maker too and ill leave your azz broke as hell after 18 holes of golf. Now go and spell check this post and let me know how well I did on the grammer

So.......

You a club makin' punk wif a 'tude. Gotcha.

Good on ya. I hopes you makes lotsa smack makin' yo muddaphukkin clubs muddaphukka.

In all honesty NTAC (No Talent A$$ Clown), you're a tool. Just another classless internet hack with no clue who thinks he's (she's??) some badazz. I'm willing to bet you aren't old enough to buy beer.

As for leaving me broke after 18 holes?? Not gonna happen.

I don't socialize with people like you in real life. You bore me and I don't find you to have any redeeming qualities.

Oh....and spell sh!t however you want. I don't care. Really. I don't care. Just make sure you get my change right when I come to your drive through window next time.

[SoonerBS]

So.......

You a club makin' punk wif a 'tude. Gotcha.

Good on ya. I hopes you makes lotsa smack makin' yo muddaphukkin clubs muddaphukka.

In all honesty NTAC (No Talent A$$ Clown), you're a tool. Just another classless internet hack with no clue who thinks he's (she's??) some badazz. I'm willing to bet you aren't old enough to buy beer.

As for leaving me broke after 18 holes?? Not gonna happen.

I don't socialize with people like you in real life. You bore me and I don't find you to have any redeeming qualities.

Oh....and spell sh!t however you want. I don't care. Really. I don't care. Just make sure you get my change right when I come to your drive through window next time.

Sounds to me like it is time for a golf match in Branson, MO . . . . . .

[ProStatus]

So.......

You a club makin' punk wif a 'tude. Gotcha.

Good on ya. I hopes you makes lotsa smack makin' yo muddaphukkin clubs muddaphukka.

In all honesty NTAC (No Talent A$$ Clown), you're a tool. Just another classless internet hack with no clue who thinks he's (she's??) some badazz. I'm willing to bet you aren't old enough to buy beer.

As for leaving me broke after 18 holes?? Not gonna happen.

I don't socialize with people like you in real life. You bore me and I don't find you to have any redeeming qualities.

Oh....and spell sh!t however you want. I don't care. Really. I don't care. Just make sure you get my change right when I come to your drive through window next time.

NTAC..............lololol. I got more talent in my cock than you will ever have in your being as a person. You read a few of my posts and you think you know what kind of person I am. Everything you just posted above would deffinetly be the guy you have grown to be................NTAC= No Talent A$$ Clubmaker.

[SoonerBS]

NTAC..............lololol. I got more talent in my cock than you will ever have in your being as a person. You read a few of my posts and you think you know what kind of person I am. Everything you just posted above would deffinetly be the guy you have grown to be................NTAC= No Talent A$$ Clubmaker.

How far can you hit the ball with your cock? My personal best is 130. Is this good you think?

[spanqdoggie]

NTAC..............lololol. I got more talent in my cock than you will ever have in your being as a person. You read a few of my posts and you think you know what kind of person I am. Everything you just posted above would deffinetly be the guy you have grown to be................NTAC= No Talent A$$ Clubmaker.

You are a little ass retard, is what you are, b!tch.

We can tell how retarded you are because of all the misspellings in your little short response, filled with a lack of education, unworthy of a 3rd grader.

Jeff is not a clubmaker.

Jeff makes clubs in his spare time, as a hobby.

I am hunting you down now ProStatus for this disrespect of an "Original GR Gangster" from back when your ass was getting directed from daddy on where to aim your cock in the head/toilet.

I will find your ass.

retarded disrespecful jackass,

spank.

p.s. You better not have a facebook/myspace/twitter or anything else on the internet. I am now hunting you down; it might take a day, a week, or maybe a month or two, but I will personally give you some serious ownage. This better be the only forum you have ever posted on, and you should pray that you have hidden your ip address here.

disrespectful jackass

[dorkman53]

You are a little ass retard, is what you are, b!tch.

We can tell how retarded you are because of all the misspellings in your little short response, filled with a lack of education, unworthy of a 3rd grader.

Jeff is not a clubmaker.

Jeff makes clubs in his spare time, as a hobby.

I am hunting you down now ProStatus for this disrespect of an "Original GR Ganster" from back when your ass was getting directed from daddy on where to aim your cock in the head/toilet.

I will find your ass.

retarded disrespectul jackass,

spank.

I'm a little weak on this one point of GR history, but......Isn't ProStatus the guy who works at GolfGalaxy or one of those chains, and isn't he the one who made shaft recommendations simply based on swing speed? If so, he is the one who would put a large number of people in shafts that are too stiff for them.

Spank, you are the premier historian on this site. Was it ProStatus, Strokeguru, or somebody else? I don't think it was FamousDavis.
The "Search" archives only go back a year or so, and I think the thread about iron fitting was older than that.

[Not a hacker]

I'm a little weak on this one point of GR history, but......Isn't ProStatus the guy who works at GolfGalaxy or one of those chains, and isn't he the one who made shaft recommendations simply based on swing speed? If so, he is the one who would put a large number of people in shafts that are too stiff for them.

Spank, you are the premier historian on this site. Was it ProStatus, Strokeguru, or somebody else? I don't think it was FamousDavis.
The "Search" archives only go back a year or so, and I think the thread about iron fitting was older than that.

Stroke Guru and Pro Status are the same person, and yes he does claim to work at golf galaxy.

PS, I'll give you credit, in the short time you've been back you've certainly livened the place up.

[spanqdoggie]

Spank, I"m sure sorry you can't afford newer clubs. You're showing some dedication to the game though, showing up to play with clubs like that. I salute you.

I spent thousands and thousands on clubs years ago.

I am now a firm believer that it is not the club, but the swing.

When I get a resemblance of a swing, I will treat myself to some new clubs, but I like my clubs, and my swing does not deserve new clubs.

I do buy a lot of cheap balls.

spank

[dorkman53]

Stroke Guru and Pro Status are the same person, and yes he does claim to work at golf galaxy.

PS, I'll give you credit, in the short time you've been back you've certainly livened the place up.

I found this "Golf Galaxy" reference in the Search function, and it confirms your last post.

http://forums.golfreview.com/showthr...ht=golf+galaxy

I made a comment about clubs with too stiff shafts at Golf Galaxy, an obvious reference to the prior discussion we'd had.

[Not a hacker]

I found this "Golf Galaxy" reference in the Search function, and it confirms your last post.

http://forums.golfreview.com/showthr...ht=golf+galaxy

I made a comment about clubs with too stiff shafts at Golf Galaxy, an obvious reference to the prior discussion we'd had.

Pro Status is to club fitting what Steven Seagal is to acting.

[Horseballs]

I started my "career" in golf forums here almost 10 years ago.

I was a founder and co-owner of DG.

I killed DG because of the actions of one fecking retarded liberal jackass.

Lots of things have changed in 10 years. It doesn't look like much has changed here. I think that's funny.

Anyway, if you have forged clubs, don't hit off mats. Also, the best way to put a tour grind on the sole of a wedge is to use a bench grinder. Before you do that though, realize that if you have chrome wedges, the finish is gonna get fecked up.

LOL

Oh.....hi Tim.

Close, but we've moved outside the box when it comes to grinding wedges. Why mess around with a bench grinder, jacking up the chrome, when you can purchase a brand new wedge, ground to spec for a mere $600? Also, tour grind? I've seen tour players on TV, and they can't all the shots with their wedges. Only a $600 wedge will allow that.

[SoonerBS]

Close, but we've moved outside the box when it comes to grinding wedges. Why mess around with a bench grinder, jacking up the chrome, when you can purchase a brand new wedge, ground to spec for a mere $600? Also, tour grind? I've seen tour players on TV, and they can't all the shots with their wedges. Only a $600 wedge will allow that.

Dork is never going to live this down, is he?

[lorenzoinoc]

Dork is never going to live this down, is he?

You have a choice in these things. Some revel where others struggle. I think this is a tremendous opportunity for Dorkman to reach a near mystical level of persona by nurturing this properly. Or he could just crush the lovely butterfly that's landed in front of him with his $400 boot ($800 a pair). I hope he's secure enough to make the right choice.

[ProStatus]

First and foremost. I do apologize to Jeff. I was out of line and will never come across like that to you any more


Now that I got that out of the way...............Don't you ever speak to me that way again ever again. Because I will own your azz in any thread, any post, any FLAME and any Golf match of 18 holes you punk azz internet wannabe golfers. As you can see I come with the fire MFrs. And the game of GOLF .................I live this SH!t. I would stomp a wet sandy hole in your hacker Trial and Error azz on the Links.

And Spank I wish you would try and find me dude. I own a condo in San Francisco. And I play golf at Harding Park, Presidio, Olympic club, Gleneagles, Lake Chabot, Chuck Corica, Lincoln park, SF club etc. I could go on for days. Dont get it twisted Spank Im a straight GANSTA when it comes to messing with me or my family. I know people ......... As a matter of Fact Spank just go down to Dogleg inc. and talk to Sir Glen. If your a real Sanfranciscan brotha , which I doubt your are. you will know excactly where this golf shop is.

[ProStatus]

Stroke Guru and Pro Status are the same person, and yes he does claim to work at golf galaxy.

PS, I'll give you credit, in the short time you've been back you've certainly livened the place up.

The truth Hurts dont it Mr. Hack . And G'DAY back too ya m8!

[SoonerBS]

First and foremost. I do apologize to Spank and Jeff. I was out of line and will never come across like that again to you both.


Now that I got that out of the way...............Don't you ever speak to me that way again ever again. Because I will own your azz in any thread, any post, any FLAME and any Golf match of 18 holes you punk azz internet wannabe golfers. As you can see I come with the fire MFrs. And the game of GOLF .................I live this SH!t. I would stomp a wet sandy hole in your hacker Trial and Error azz on the Links.

And Spank I wish you would try and find me dude. I own a condo in San Francisco. And I play golf at Harding Park, Presidio, Olympic club, Gleneagles, Lake Chabot, Chuck Corica, Lincoln park, SF club etc. I could go on for days. Dont get it twisted Spank Im a straight GANSTA when it comes to messing with me or my family. I know people ......... As a matter of Fact Spank just go down to Dogleg inc. and talk to Sir Glen. If your a real Sanfranciscan brotha , which I doubt your are. you will know excactly where this golf shop is.

Oh, goody!!

[spanqdoggie]

First and foremost. I do apologize to Spank and Jeff. I was out of line and will never come across like that again to you both.


Now that I got that out of the way...............Don't you ever speak to me that way again ever again. Because I will own your azz in any thread, any post, any FLAME and any Golf match of 18 holes you punk azz internet wannabe golfers. As you can see I come with the fire MFrs. And the game of GOLF .................I live this SH!t. I would stomp a wet sandy hole in your hacker Trial and Error azz on the Links.

And Spank I wish you would try and find me dude. I own a condo in San Francisco. And I play golf at Harding Park, Presidio, Olympic club, Gleneagles, Lake Chabot, Chuck Corica, Lincoln park, SF club etc. I could go on for days. Dont get it twisted Spank Im a straight GANSTA when it comes to messing with me or my family. I know people ......... As a matter of Fact Spank just go down to Dogleg inc. and talk to Sir Glen. If your a real Sanfranciscan brotha , which I doubt your are. you will know excactly where this golf shop is.

Well, with the apology, then all is good and forgiven.

Crimony, we might even play together someday, with a secrecy clause for both of us. My fellow GC in our very small remodeling corp just played at SF club and thinks it is over rated.

Damn, Jeff was the one that gave me the recommendation for a golf instructor at the SF club 10 years ago here on GR...

Oh, and you don't need to doubt; I am legit born and raised San Franciscan, 3rd generation, in a cop family; except being a cop sucks so construction is more fun. Who wants to deal with retards all day long for work? I would rather be a fireman and sleep all day.

I am going to verify your information. I do not think you would lie to someone like me, but for now our war is over; if I discover you lied, it is back on. And as far as your shop recommendation... I don't visit the ghetto that often, but I am sure the dude is cool.

My father was given a lifetime membership to the Olympic Club and he got in a fight with the higher ups and quit the whole place; I am still mad about that. I was probably only around 6 or 7 years old when that happened.

What the hell was my dad thinking? He doesn't even care about it now; would never go back. I got a bunch of cousins that play there.

[Kiwi Player]

As you can see I come with the Fires MFrs.

What? You playing a set of Maxflis these days?

[spanqdoggie]

What? You playing a set of Maxflis these days?

What is wrong with maxflis? I am playing them right now... well not really playing them.

If I could give lessons on how to hit shanks, I would be rich.

[Kiwi Player]

What is wrong with maxflis? I am playing them right now... well not really playing them.

If I could give lessons on how to hit shanks, I would be rich.

Nothing Spank

But there was a period when the Maxfli Fires were all the rage here on GR and that's what I thought Prostate-tus may have been referring to.

[spanqdoggie]

Nothing Spank

But there was a period when the Maxfli Fires were all the rage here on GR and that's what I thought Prostate-tus may have been referring to.

Ha ha! "Prostate-tus?" You are too much for words...

I apologize Kiwi; I just wanted to say that I am using Maxflis; no disrespect intended.

Kind regards,

spank

[dorkman53]

Now that you have brought it up, our local Grammar Nazi, Dorkman, hasn't corrected anybody in a long time. Either we are all getting a lot better at our grammar, or he is falling down on the job.

As I've said before, I ignore the countless episodes of butchering of English I see here on GR. I only point it out when someone uses poor grammar or spelling in the process of calling someone ELSE "stupid." Then the irony of the situation proves too rich to resist.

[dorkman53]

Dork is never going to live this down, is he?

Probably not. The humiliation of having spent $300 each for semi-custom to full custom wedges that outperform by miles any OEM wedges I've ever used is a shameful blight on my character that will follow me to my grave.......or at least until the current ones eventually wear out and I buy some more, whichever occurs first......

[Jeff_h]

Probably not. The humiliation of having spent $300 each for semi-custom to full custom wedges that outperform by miles any OEM wedges I've ever used is a shameful blight on my character that will follow me to my grave.......or at least until the current ones eventually wear out and I buy some more, whichever occurs first......

You touched on the reason I don't build clubs anymore.

Time value of money.

It takes time to craft something semi-custom or custom for somebody. And my time is valuable too.

If you look at my sig, you'll see that I have 3 KZG forged raw wedges. Each one of the heads cost me about $45. The shafts cost me about $12. The grips cost me about $5. I'm into the materials for around $62 (plus shipping and consumables). Let's call it $65 each. Remember, that's my cost. Each one of those wedges has a sole grind that chamfers from the hosel end towards the toe so that the bounce angle remains pretty much the same as you open the wedge up. It took me several hours per head to do that between time spent on the bench grinder with two different grit wheels followed by the belt sander to smooth them out. After that, I added paint fill. After that, I cold blued the heads. How much do you think 5 hours per club for my time is worth? Remember, I have capital equipment in the form of tools. I have inventory. I have rent. I have insurance to buy. Making a profit would be nice too. Is my time worth $40 per hour? That's about half what you pay the average mechanic. If it is, I'll sell you my wedges for $300 each after adding in $35 for markup on materials. Unfortunately, for most people, that's too much.

[The Purist]

You touched on the reason I don't build clubs anymore.

Time value of money.

It takes time to craft something semi-custom or custom for somebody. And my time is valuable too.

If you look at my sig, you'll see that I have 3 KZG forged raw wedges. Each one of the heads cost me about $45. The shafts cost me about $12. The grips cost me about $5. I'm into the materials for around $62 (plus shipping and consumables). Let's call it $65 each. Remember, that's my cost. Each one of those wedges has a sole grind that chamfers from the hosel end towards the toe so that the bounce angle remains pretty much the same as you open the wedge up. It took me several hours per head to do that between time spent on the bench grinder with two different grit wheels followed by the belt sander to smooth them out. After that, I added paint fill. After that, I cold blued the heads. How much do you think 5 hours per club for my time is worth? Remember, I have capital equipment in the form of tools. I have inventory. I have rent. I have insurance to buy. Making a profit would be nice too. Is my time worth $40 per hour? That's about half what you pay the average mechanic. If it is, I'll sell you my wedges for $300 each after adding in $35 for markup on materials. Unfortunately, for most people, that's too much.

Don't over think this thing Jeff. Scratch has one of the biggest markups in the golf industry, and they got away with it through deceit and gullible consumers. 1. They claimed to use 1018 "the softest" metal for their wedges----False! Nobody uses 1018, because its crap. They ran an independent test and the metal came back 1010...2. They tried to act like their wedges were forged by Ishihara...False! Ishihara doesn't forge clubs for them (they aren't even a foundry). 3. Their players don't get paid to play their wedges...False! They don't get paid up front. 4. Scratch tries to act like they have original wedge designs...False Again! They are just cheap mass produced open model blanks.

Despite all the false advertisement. Some people just assume that whatever costs the most must be the best. Its the reason Callaway charges more than any other OEM for their worst performing POS drivers, because there is niche market for having the most expensive model.

[lorenzoinoc]

Don't over think this thing Jeff. Scratch has one of the biggest markups in the golf industry, and they got away with through deceit and gullible consumers. 1. They claimed to use 1018 "the softest" metal for their wedges----False! Nobody uses 1018, because its crap. They ran a independent test and the metal came back 1010...2. They tried to act like their wedges were forged by Ishihara...False! Ishihara doesn't forge clubs for them (they aren't even a foundry). 3. Their players don't get paid to play their wedges...False! They don't get paid up front. 4. Scratch tries to act like they have original wedge designs...False Again! They are just cheap mass produced open model blanks.

Despite all the false advertisement. Some people just assume that whatever costs the most must be the best. Its the reason Callaway charges more than any other OEM for their worst performing POS drivers, because there is niche market for having the most expensive model.

And then Scratch has the gall to charge $600 per wedge and gets it because there are those that think that's what you have to spend to play all the shots. It's like Starbucks x 100.

[Jeff_h]

Don't over think this thing Jeff. Scratch has one of the biggest markups in the golf industry, and they got away with through deceit and gullible consumers. 1. They claimed to use 1018 "the softest" metal for their wedges----False! Nobody uses 1018, because its crap. They ran a independent test and the metal came back 1010...2. They tried to act like their wedges were forged by Ishihara...False! Ishihara doesn't forge clubs for them (they aren't even a foundry). 3. Their players don't get paid to play their wedges...False! They don't get paid up front. 4. Scratch tries to act like they have original wedge designs...False Again! They are just cheap mass produced open model blanks.

Despite all the false advertisement. Some people just assume that whatever costs the most must be the best. Its the reason Callaway charges more than any other OEM for their worst performing POS drivers, because there is niche market for having the most expensive model.

I was talking about me and my personal experience. Not Scratch Golf.

Anyway.....

As an aside, are you sure about the numbers?

The numeric designation of steel refers to the alloying element and its content. The "10" means that it is a true carbon steel alloy. The second 2 numbers are the fractional percentage of carbon. The less carbon content, the softer the alloy. Most forged iron heads are 1025 or 1030. For your example above, 1010 would actually be softer than 1018 but would also be much worse for a clubhead. Not because it's crap metal, but because it's too soft and would bend and gouge very easily.

[SoonerBS]

I was talking about me and my personal experience. Not Scratch Golf.

Anyway.....

As an aside, are you sure about the numbers?

The numeric designation of steel refers to the alloying element and its content. The "10" means that it is a true carbon steel alloy. The second 2 numbers are the fractional percentage of carbon. The less carbon content, the softer the alloy. Most forged iron heads are 1025 or 1030. For your example above, 1010 would actually be softer than 1018 but would also be much worse for a clubhead. Not because it's crap metal, but because it's too soft and would bend and gouge very easily.

You learn something everyday . . . . .

[The Purist]

I was talking about me and my personal experience. Not Scratch Golf.

Anyway.....

As an aside, are you sure about the numbers?

The numeric designation of steel refers to the alloying element and its content. The "10" means that it is a true carbon steel alloy. The second 2 numbers are the fractional percentage of carbon. The less carbon content, the softer the alloy. Most forged iron heads are 1025 or 1030. For your example above, 1010 would actually be softer than 1018 but would also be much worse for a clubhead. Not because it's crap metal, but because it's too soft and would bend and gouge very easily.

Read these (reverse order):
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...lts/#more-9930
and
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...turing-part-1/

[famousdavis]

I was talking about me and my personal experience. Not Scratch Golf.

Anyway.....

As an aside, are you sure about the numbers?

The numeric designation of steel refers to the alloying element and its content. The "10" means that it is a true carbon steel alloy. The second 2 numbers are the fractional percentage of carbon. The less carbon content, the softer the alloy. Most forged iron heads are 1025 or 1030. For your example above, 1010 would actually be softer than 1018 but would also be much worse for a clubhead. Not because it's crap metal, but because it's too soft and would bend and gouge very easily.

Interesting. Do the numbers in the Titleist irons mean anything (I'm asking this seriously)? For example 990, 762, etc. I imagine they don't. These are things I've often wondered...like how did Ping come up with the name G2? Did all the execs sit around a table and have a brainstorming session and then one of the guys perked up and said "I got it, we'll call it the G2!!!". The rest of the committee responded "Yes, that's it, the G2...brilliant!!".

[Horseballs]

DIABLO = Do Idiots Actually Buy Lies? Of course
It's all part of the marketing scheme.
SUMO = Seriously Ugly, Marketing Obscenity

[Jeff_h]

Interesting. Do the numbers in the Titleist irons mean anything (I'm asking this seriously)? For example 990, 762, etc. I imagine they don't. These are things I've often wondered...like how did Ping come up with the name G2? Did all the execs sit around a table and have a brainstorming session and then one of the guys perked up and said "I got it, we'll call it the G2!!!". The rest of the committee responded "Yes, that's it, the G2...brilliant!!".

Not that I know of. Ping probably had a marketing dude trying to come up with something when he glanced down at the yummy new Gatorade G2 he was drinking at the time......LOL

[Jeff_h]

Read these (reverse order):
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...lts/#more-9930
and
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...turing-part-1/

Gotcha....

So they advertised using an alloy that many suspected to be inappropriate (both too soft and also inconsistent quality considering the source) for club heads and then were proved to be using one that was even more ill-suited for the purpose.

Nice!

[dorkman53]

Gotcha....

So they advertised using an alloy that many suspected to be inappropriate (both too soft and also inconsistent quality considering the source) for club heads and then were proved to be using one that was even more ill-suited for the purpose.

Nice!

I really don't want to re-open this whole can of worms, but the people who posted the business about the "independent analysis" of the clubs have an axe to grind. Tourspec is getting into the wedge business themselves.

Incidentally, Scratch sent their clubs out for their own "independent analysis," and the results confirmed their claims.

It may be something like getting a house appraised for a loan. The appraiser will give the person paying for the appraisal the number they want, more times than not.

JUST SO NOBODY READING ABOUT THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME IS CONFUSED, Scratch does NOT sell any wedges for $600, but this has been repeated so many times that there might be someone out there that doesn't realize that it is a tired attempt at a worn out comedy schtick......

[lorenzoinoc]

Gotcha....

So they advertised using an alloy that many suspected to be inappropriate (both too soft and also inconsistent quality considering the source) for club heads and then were proved to be using one that was even more ill-suited for the purpose.

Nice!

I think people that pay $600 for a wedge have a right to expect more. Shame on Scratch.

[spanqdoggie]

It may be something like getting a house appraised for a loan. The appraiser will give the person paying for the appraisal the number they want, more times than not.

Yeah, that is true. I know an appraiser here in San Francisco, and he is making money... depends on the economy, but 3 properties appraised a day is well over a thousand a day here, seven days a week...

I mean, I know him; I have done Century bike rides with both of his brothers, for example.

So I needed an appraisal to go low for a trust, to avoid some taxes; he manipulated it to help me out.

You can move an appraisal in different directions, but not by too much, as it is mandated by law, and it is all legal.

I am not here to teach how to do it, so this is my last comment on this subject.

[Jeff_h]

I really don't want to re-open this whole can of worms, but the people who posted the business about the "independent analysis" of the clubs have an axe to grind. Tourspec is getting into the wedge business themselves.

Incidentally, Scratch sent their clubs out for their own "independent analysis," and the results confirmed their claims.

It may be something like getting a house appraised for a loan. The appraiser will give the person paying for the appraisal the number they want, more times than not.

JUST SO NOBODY READING ABOUT THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME IS CONFUSED, Scratch does NOT sell any wedges for $600, but this has been repeated so many times that there might be someone out there that doesn't realize that it is a tired attempt at a worn out comedy schtick......

At the end of the day DM, I stand by what I said in an earlier post:

If you bought something that performs at or above your expectations, you could justify the expense no matter what it was, you have no buyer's remorse and you are, all in all, a satisfied customer......

Who cares?

It's your gear, it's your money.

If you're happy with your purchase, that's all that matters.

End of story.

//// Thread Closed ////.

[The Purist]

I really don't want to re-open this whole can of worms, but the people who posted the business about the "independent analysis" of the clubs have an axe to grind. Tourspec is getting into the wedge business themselves.

Incidentally, Scratch sent their clubs out for their own "independent analysis," and the results confirmed their claims.

It may be something like getting a house appraised for a loan. The appraiser will give the person paying for the appraisal the number they want, more times than not.

JUST SO NOBODY READING ABOUT THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME IS CONFUSED, Scratch does NOT sell any wedges for $600, but this has been repeated so many times that there might be someone out there that doesn't realize that it is a tired attempt at a worn out comedy schtick......

Dorkman, I am positive your wedge is not 1018. You pick any independent metallurgist of your choice and I will pay for the testing fees...just pm me the payment information and its done. I wonder if they would give you a refund for selling you an overpriced wedge under false advertisement.

[dorkman53]

Dorkman, I am positive your wedge is not 1018. You pick any independent metallurgist of your choice and I will pay for the testing fees...just pm me the payment information and its done. I wonder if they would give you a refund for selling you an overpriced wedge under false advertisement.

As I said multiple times before, I couldn't care less what the metallurgical content of the clubhead is. I care about the sole grind, because that is what makes the wedge perform. Whether the club is cast, forged, or made out of paper mache' isn't important, as long as I like the result. The results make the extra money well worth it to me. If not for someone else, fine. It's a free country, and I'm happy to spend the extra to get the extra performance.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........zzzzzzz.........z.....z..... .....z.............z....................z
I'm really fascinated with the rehash of this topic........

[noshuz]

As I said multiple times before, I couldn't care less what the metallurgical content of the clubhead is. I care about the sole grind, because that is what makes the wedge perform. Whether the club is cast, forged, or made out of paper mache' isn't important, as long as I like the result. The results make the extra money well worth it to me. If not for someone else, fine. It's a free country, and I'm happy to spend the extra to get the extra performance.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........zzzzzzz.........z.....z..... .....z.............z....................z
I'm really fascinated with the rehash of this topic........

It could worse dorky. They could be talking about my attire.......

[Not a hacker]

It could worse dorky. They could be talking about my attire.......

Jeff has taken some of your heat on that one too. You just have to wait for a few more swing vids and your saddle shoes and jeans combo will be old news.

[noshuz]

Jeff has taken some of your heat on that one too. You just have to wait for a few more swing vids and your saddle shoes and jeans combo will be old news.

Just remember, you only hurt the ones you love.......

[lorenzoinoc]

It could worse dorky. They could be talking about my attire.......

Unless you're italian and referring to what's on the wheels of a car, you should never use the word attire.

[Home-slicer]

Unless you're italian and referring to what's on the wheels of a car, you should never use the word attire.

Agreed. I totally would have gone with ensemble in this situation.

[noshuz]

Unless you're italian and referring to what's on the wheels of a car, you should never use the word attire.

Originally Posted by lorenzoinoc
Unless you're italian and referring to what's on the wheels of a car, you should never use the word attire.

Sooo sorry. I'll be sure to check my grammar for youz homoz next tyme....

[SoonerBS]

Unless you're italian and referring to what's on the wheels of a car, you should never use the word attire.

The word, "attire," is sophisticated and you could use a little sophistication, my Italian friend. Now, will somebody please pass the wine . . . . .

[lorenzoinoc]

The word, "attire," is sophisticated and you could use a little sophistication, my Italian friend. Now, will somebody please pass the wine . . . . .

That's why I go to Oklahoma once a year.

[SoonerBS]

That's why I go to Oklahoma once a year.

And, here I thought it was because we get the latest issues of Penthouse and some great rotund women that are always available . . . . . . .

[lorenzoinoc]

And, here I thought it was because we get the latest issues of Penthouse and some great rotund women that are always available . . . . . . .

Both available at your local gas station. It was interesting to see that gas stations are the hub of social interaction and culture in OK.

[Larryrsf]

I started my "career" in golf forums here almost 10 years ago.

I was a founder and co-owner of DG.

I killed DG because of the actions of one fecking retarded liberal jackass.

Lots of things have changed in 10 years. It doesn't look like much has changed here. I think that's funny.

Anyway, if you have forged clubs, don't hit off mats. Also, the best way to put a tour grind on the sole of a wedge is to use a bench grinder. Before you do that though, realize that if you have chrome wedges, the finish is gonna get fecked up.

LOL

Oh.....hi Tim.

Well, as you know better than most, only a tiny, tiny, minority of amateurs hit a golf ball with the clubhead accelerating-- fully on their front leg with their hips leading. All the rest fail to do that and are thus decelerating at impact--

So when there is that much room for improvement in their fundamental golf swing-- swing improvements that could SWAMP the trivial differences between any two iron clubhead types or even any two club shaft types, shouldn't we be constantly reminding people to take lessons and ingrain a real golf swing?

As you know, a guy with a good golf swing could just randomly pick clubs from the used barrel and shoot scratch anywhere-- Lee Trevino and many others have proved that. Lee Trevino nearly won a US Open with a wildly mismatched set of used clubs.

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

Well, as you know better than most, only a tiny, tiny, minority of amateurs hit a golf ball with the clubhead accelerating-- fully on their front leg with their hips leading. All the rest fail to do that and are thus decelerating at impact--

So when there is that much room for improvement in their fundamental golf swing-- swing improvements that could SWAMP the trivial differences between any two iron clubhead types or even any two club shaft types, shouldn't we be constantly reminding people to take lessons and ingrain a real golf swing?

As you know, a guy with a good golf swing could just randomly pick clubs from the used barrel and shoot scratch anywhere-- Lee Trevino and many others have proved that. Lee Trevino nearly won a US Open with a wildly mismatched set of used clubs.

Larry

I think it's something like 1% isn't it Larry.

That is my new mantra and the only swing thought I have as I address the ball "Be the 1%!"

[Larryrsf]

I think it's something like 1% isn't it Larry.

That is my new mantra and the only swing thought I have as I address the ball "Be the 1%!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJV7lz7QpSA

I got it this week! Maybe this drill was the last needed thing after lessons and some strength building in my legs-- especially front knees stability stuff, but anyhow, I watched that drill, stood up and did it here in my office. Then when I went to the range I did the drill for a few minutes, really got that feeling of step-hit both directions, then hit a ball. I was amazed! I hit that sucker fully posted with my hips leading-- and just drilled them with long irons or driver, whatever. The golf swing is easy when we are posted early.

Since then, several days ago, I have returned and hit 50 balls or so with 4i-- working to more aggressively "FIRE" my hips once I was posted on my front leg. I have it and I will never look back! This took 8+ years! When I first started golfing, I read books like SLAP, saw their strong statement that THE difference between the "elite" level amateur and the rest of us was the ability to make the transition weight shift. TPI said only 1% (as you correct quoted) could do it. Those are the club champion and the guys who compete with him in every golf club. So I started working on that. Several teaching pros along the way honestly admitted that they have never had a late-beginner student become able to do it-- they only guys making that move are the guys who started playing as kids...etc.

Anyhow, now it is easy--and the answer was that rhythmic drill. Shawn says the "perpetual motion" drill is the most important in golf and of course he is right--assuming you want to be better than a 10 or so-- to hit enough fairways and greens to be able to score with even mediocre putting.

AND, BTW, I can hit them long and straight with any irons, forged blades, OS CBs, graphite or steel. The whole deal is whether your clubhead is accelerating at impact so you compress the ball. That requires hips leading--and that requires us to be posted with all weight on our front leg--- "plant-hit"

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJV7lz7QpSA

I got it this week! Maybe this drill was the last needed thing after lessons and some strength building in my legs-- especially front knees stability stuff, but anyhow, I watched that drill, stood up and did it here in my office. Then when I went to the range I did the drill for a few minutes, really got that feeling of step-hit both directions, then hit a ball. I was amazed! I hit that sucker fully posted with my hips leading-- and just drilled them with long irons or driver, whatever. The golf swing is easy when we are posted early.

Since then, several days ago, I have returned and hit 50 balls or so with 4i-- working to more aggressively "FIRE" my hips once I was posted on my front leg. I have it and I will never look back! This took 8+ years! When I first started golfing, I read books like SLAP, saw their strong statement that THE difference between the "elite" level amateur and the rest of us was the ability to make the transition weight shift. TPI said only 1% (as you correct quoted) could do it. Those are the club champion and the guys who compete with him in every golf club. So I started working on that. Several teaching pros along the way honestly admitted that they have never had a late-beginner student become able to do it-- they only guys making that move are the guys who started playing as kids...etc.

Anyhow, now it is easy--and the answer was that rhythmic drill. Shawn says the "perpetual motion" drill is the most important in golf and of course he is right--assuming you want to be better than a 10 or so-- to hit enough fairways and greens to be able to score with even mediocre putting.

AND, BTW, I can hit them long and straight with any irons, forged blades, OS CBs, graphite or steel. The whole deal is whether your clubhead is accelerating at impact so you compress the ball. That requires hips leading.

Larry

Goddammit Larry stop doing that!!!!

Every time you post a Youtube link I get excited thinking it is going to be one of your new swing vids and instead it is just another link to that Canadian Jackass Shawn Clement.

Enough already!!!!

[Larryrsf]

Goddammit Larry stop doing that!!!!

Every time you post a Youtube link I get excited thinking it is going to be one of your new swing vids and instead it is just another link to that Canadian Jackass Shawn Clement.

Enough already!!!!

I keep forgetting to take my video camera to the range. Maybe today. You guys need to see this.

larry

[Jeff_h]

Larry, the key to this concept is to establish a "firm forward side" (left side for righties, right for lefties). I think this is what you mean when you say "post"

It is SO easy to get so energetic with the lower body that we use our hips to slide instead of rotate. All that does is throw off timing, make the hands try to catch up and ultimately cost both distance and accuracy.

When you start the downswing, imagine the target facing side of your body is pressed up against a fence post so you can't slide past it. Uncoil with power by being planted on the forward foot.

[Not a hacker]

Larry,

That guy is the gayest sounding freckle poker I've ever heard.

[Larryrsf]

Larry, the key to this concept is to establish a "firm forward side" (left side for righties, right for lefties). I think this is what you mean when you say "post"

It is SO easy to get so energetic with the lower body that we use our hips to slide instead of rotate. All that does is throw off timing, make the hands try to catch up and ultimately cost both distance and accuracy.

When you start the downswing, imagine the target facing side of your body is pressed up against a fence post so you can't slide past it. Uncoil with power by being planted on the forward foot.

Thanks. Great advice! When I was working on this move I did go too far. So I used a "teaching staff" which is just a club shaft with the head removed, stuck in the ground near my front foot. I let my hip slide to that--and then stop sliding and turn. The front leg is called a "post" because it is vertical with the knee straight. Tiger said he "snaps" his knee straight when he wants more distance.

I think the heel is the key-- at least for me as it was for Jack Nicklaus and likely many others. I start my downswing by stomping that heel down-- which forces me to shift laterally and "engage" my front hip before my hips turn around toward the target.

Obviously we can't think of all these details and still do it in real time-- so the little "dance" that the "Perpetual Motion" drill is easy to memorize. The heel comes down before the clubhead swishes through, "plant-hit, plant-hit." Very shortly you have the rhythm and that is the transition weight shift. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJV7lz7QpSA

But most amateurs can't do it at all, much less too much or too far! Most (99%) according to some references, just turn back and then turn forward without any shift at all, so if necessary, they probably should exaggerate it in order to feel it --

Larry

[daveperkins]

... that Canadian Jackass Shawn Clement.

Redundancy.

[spanqdoggie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJV7lz7QpSA

I have returned and hit 50 balls or so with 4i-- working to more aggressively "FIRE" my hips once I was posted on my front leg.

See that you bastards? Larry is over 60 using a 4 iron, not a hybrid.

Real men use irons, get lessons, and practice, much like Larry is doing.

Larry is going about it the right way, and you retards think clubs will fix your game?

Nonsense! Well, the new drivers will go farther...

I am doing lessons, practicing a lot, with blades now, but I do not recommend blades for the sheep, but perhaps the sheepdogs.

Sheepdogs use blades.
Sheep use hybrids and cavity backs.

[Jeff_h]

Read these (reverse order):
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...lts/#more-9930
and
http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03...turing-part-1/

After running across a little more info on this topic, I have to ask........

Did Chris over at TSG pay you to post the above links?

There's 2 sides to every story and in my opinion it looks like you're on the wrong side.

[dorkman53]

After running across a little more info on this topic, I have to ask........

Did Chris over at TSG pay you to post the above links?

There's 2 sides to every story and in my opinion it looks like you're on the wrong side.

I agree.
I think Chris did a hatchet job on a man I hold in the highest regard for knowledge, honesty and ethical standards; Ari Techner at Scratch.

I've bought plenty of products from Scratch, and from TSG.

I'd gladly buy again from Scratch. I doubt if I'll ever buy again from TSG.

[Typhoon92]

Damn Jeff, still playing the 455/vs339X combo I sent you... Still my benchmark driver, made 3 Alpha's this winter to try to knock the 455 out. Still have 3-4 more Alpha heads kicking around.

The guy I sold the other 455 head you texted me about doesn't have it anymore... sorry!

[spanqdoggie]

Damn Jeff, still playing the 455/vs339X combo I sent you... Still my benchmark driver, made 3 Alpha's this winter to try to knock the 455 out. Still have 3-4 more Alpha heads kicking around.

The guy I sold the other 455 head you texted me about doesn't have it anymore... sorry!

Typhoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just bought a 455 head online and am getting a local guy to do the swing speed, etc and get me a nice shaft.

[Typhoon92]

Typhoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just bought a 455 head online and am getting a local guy to do the swing speed, etc and get me a nice shaft.

Man you're faster than I thought!!!!! Jeff told me you were around, figured I'd stick it in here. Can't go wrong with a 455 thats for sure. Got hosed on my post count here but at least I was still registered. You guys are beatin' Jeff like a rented mule... good to see you haven't changed Spank!

[Jeff_h]

Man you're faster than I thought!!!!! Jeff told me you were around, figured I'd stick it in here. Can't go wrong with a 455 thats for sure. Got hosed on my post count here but at least I was still registered. You guys are beatin' Jeff like a rented mule... good to see you haven't changed Spank!

Sh!t.....They started off tossin' 'tude, but I showed 'em.

LOL

Good to see ya in the hood brah