The irons experiment

[edgey]

Hi

I have just finished a little experiment involving my collection of irons. I have played 3 rounds off the comp tees using my MP 68's and 6 rounds using a set of Callaway FT i Brids.

When i used the MP68 irons i used a very traditional 3 - PW set up a Titleist 905r 10.5 degree driver, Mizuno MP wedges and a Titleist 3 and a 5 wood.

The i Brids are from 3 - SW and i did not include a driver using only my Thriver a 7 wood and the Lovett.

I used the same putter an Odyssey Black Series ix #9

I used a Skycaddie to log stats so i could review them in a slightly Larryesque anal way.

Without wishing to get too boring here is what i learned

My worst scores were with the Mizuno irons BUT they had nothing to do with the Irons. Because of my poor driving with a normal driver i consistantly missed fairways (normally to the right) and found myself chipping out which placed a lot of pressure on my medium and short irons which in turn placed a lot of pressure on my putting.

My best scores were with the i Brids BUT this was due to the fact i hit 60% of the fairways with the Thriver. Less pressure on my irons and putting. Interestingly i did find i hit more greens when using the Lovett than my other wedges but i suspect this is due to my confidence with it.

As an experiment i went out with the i Brids AND the Titleist driver. My score was about as poor as when i used the Mizzies for the same reason, wild off the tee.

Finally i went out with the Mizzies and the Thriver/Lovett set up (this looked a bit daft). Scores nearly identical to the i Brid set up.

The only time i noticed any great issue was with the Mizzie long irons (3 & 4) on a long par 3. I did hit the i Brid 3 & 4 more consistantly but this only really made 1 or 2 shots differance overall as i only needed to hit them once per round.

Certainly gave me food for thought

Edgey

[Kiwi Player]

Interesting stuff Edgey. I was going to say you should play the MP-68's with your usual setup i.e. Thriver, hybrids, Lovett etc and just bag 5-PW or whatever irons you normally play. That would give a true indication of whether or not the blades really affect your scoring.

I have played my best and worst golf with the GFF in the bag but the rest of my setup has remained fairly consistent. My worst rounds usually start with poor driving which puts pressure on my approaches and short game. The irons don't make much difference to scoring IMO. Driver, short game and putter determine the score.

[famousdavis]

Hi

I have just finished a little experiment involving my collection of irons. I have played 3 rounds off the comp tees using my MP 68's and 6 rounds using a set of Callaway FT i Brids.

When i used the MP68 irons i used a very traditional 3 - PW set up a Titleist 905r 10.5 degree driver, Mizuno MP wedges and a Titleist 3 and a 5 wood.

The i Brids are from 3 - SW and i did not include a driver using only my Thriver a 7 wood and the Lovett.

I used the same putter an Odyssey Black Series ix #9

I used a Skycaddie to log stats so i could review them in a slightly Larryesque anal way.

Without wishing to get too boring here is what i learned

My worst scores were with the Mizuno irons BUT they had nothing to do with the Irons. Because of my poor driving with a normal driver i consistantly missed fairways (normally to the right) and found myself chipping out which placed a lot of pressure on my medium and short irons which in turn placed a lot of pressure on my putting.

My best scores were with the i Brids BUT this was due to the fact i hit 60% of the fairways with the Thriver. Less pressure on my irons and putting. Interestingly i did find i hit more greens when using the Lovett than my other wedges but i suspect this is due to my confidence with it.

As an experiment i went out with the i Brids AND the Titleist driver. My score was about as poor as when i used the Mizzies for the same reason, wild off the tee.

Finally i went out with the Mizzies and the Thriver/Lovett set up (this looked a bit daft). Scores nearly identical to the i Brid set up.

The only time i noticed any great issue was with the Mizzie long irons (3 & 4) on a long par 3. I did hit the i Brid 3 & 4 more consistantly but this only really made 1 or 2 shots differance overall as i only needed to hit them once per round.

Certainly gave me food for thought

Edgey

I think I'm stating the obvious here but why didn't you keep everything else in the bag the same other than the irons? This way you could compare the irons while keeping everything else constant and actually present some empirical evidence to support blades vs. cavity backs. All you've got now if gobbeldy gook. I'm assuming your profession does not involve scientific experiments.

[edgey]

Interesting stuff Edgey. I was going to say you should play the MP-68's with your usual setup i.e. Thriver, hybrids, Lovett etc and just bag 5-PW or whatever irons you normally play. That would give a true indication of whether or not the blades really affect your scoring.

I have played my best and worst golf with the GFF in the bag but the rest of my setup has remained fairly consistent. My worst rounds usually start with poor driving which puts pressure on my approaches and short game. The irons don't make much difference to scoring IMO. Driver, short game and putter determine the score.

Because i need to hit long irons only once in a round (210yd par 3) i didnt really feel that hybrids over long irons was that important.

The only thing i would say is that bagging MP68 irons with a lovett, hybrids and a Thriver looks even worse than just bagging i Brids.

I think this all proved that at my level (best 77 worst 88) driving, wedges and putting has the most influence on my score. In fact if i hit a bad drive i could pretty much guarantee a bogey or worse unless i got hot with a putter.

Edgey

[Kiwi Player]

Because i need to hit long irons only once in a round (210yd par 3) i didnt really feel that hybrids over long irons was that important.

The only thing i would say is that bagging MP68 irons with a lovett, hybrids and a Thriver looks even worse than just bagging i Brids.

I think this all proved that at my level (best 77 worst 88) driving, wedges and putting has the most influence on my score. In fact if i hit a bad drive i could pretty much guarantee a bogey or worse unless i got hot with a putter.

Edgey

Me too!

[edgey]

I think I'm stating the obvious here but why didn't you keep everything else in the bag the same other than the irons? This way you could compare the irons while keeping everything else constant and actually present some empirical evidence to support blades vs. cavity backs. All you've got now if gobbeldy gook. I'm assuming your profession does not involve scientific experiments.

LOL if you can get passed the fact i was writing this whilst feeding a 7 month old and a 3 year old i can say that i effectively did what you suggest. I played the Thriver set up and the Driver set up with both set of irons.

Upshot, scores were the same with the Thriver set up (good) regardless of irons and Bad with the Driver set up regardless of irons.

Moral - For me irons made a difference of (on average) 1 - 2 shots per round in favour of the i Brids which is nothing.

I will let my girls starve in future to ensure i am clearer

Edgey

PS My profession involves sex with strangers

[SoonerBS]

So, you basically learned what has been preached on this forum for years -- the Driver is the most important club in your bag.

[edgey]

So, you basically learned what has been preached on this forum for years -- the Driver is the most important club in your bag.

This forum has preached everything over the years, that is what makes GR so great.

What i would say is that when it comes to driving straight is better than long, if long isnt straight. Hence the Thriver.

You remember the Thriver, dont you. It pre dates the Niblick but was cast out way before its time. Bring back the Thriver for your next game and see what happens, what you got to lose?

Edgey

[SoonerBS]

This forum has preached everything over the years, that is what makes GR so great.

What i would say is that when it comes to driving straight is better than long, if long isnt straight. Hence the Thriver.

You remember the Thriver, dont you. It pre dates the Niblick but was cast out way before its time. Bring back the Thriver for your next game and see what happens, what you got to lose?

Edgey

You will not hear me talking bad about the Thriver, Edgey, I know its benefits. The problem I was having though is that we have too much wind in Oklahoma and they are not good hitting into the wind. I will be bagging the Thriver in Tuesday night club scrambles though just because there is one par 4 where a short cut over the trees can land you on the green. The Thriver is the weapon of choice on that hole.

[edgey]

You will not hear me talking bad about the Thriver, Edgey, I know its benefits. The problem I was having though is that we have too much wind in Oklahoma and they are not good hitting into the wind. I will be bagging the Thriver in Tuesday night club scrambles though just because there is one par 4 where a short cut over the trees can land you on the green. The Thriver is the weapon of choice on that hole.

After my experiments i have just bid and brought on flea bay a Nike SQ Sweet 16 Sasquatch (4950). I have a Graffaloy Blue Stiff shaft in the loft that i will be putting in at 43" so i can hit it a little lower than my 5900.

I will probably start carrying both

If you had carried the Thriver against Dave do you think (even with the wind) you might have shot a better score?

Edgey

[lorenzoinoc]

LOL if you can get passed the fact i was writing this whilst feeding a 7 month old and a 3 year old i can say that i effectively did what you suggest. I played the Thriver set up and the Driver set up with both set of irons.

Upshot, scores were the same with the Thriver set up (good) regardless of irons and Bad with the Driver set up regardless of irons.

Moral - For me irons made a difference of (on average) 1 - 2 shots per round in favour of the i Brids which is nothing.

I will let my girls starve in future to ensure i am clearer

Edgey

Good to know you may have at least some respect for the Scientific Method.

PS My profession involves sex with strangers

If it doesn't, it isn't worth pursuing.

[famousdavis]

LOL if you can get passed the fact i was writing this whilst feeding a 7 month old and a 3 year old i can say that i effectively did what you suggest. I played the Thriver set up and the Driver set up with both set of irons.

Upshot, scores were the same with the Thriver set up (good) regardless of irons and Bad with the Driver set up regardless of irons.

Moral - For me irons made a difference of (on average) 1 - 2 shots per round in favour of the i Brids which is nothing.

I will let my girls starve in future to ensure i am clearer

Edgey

PS My profession involves sex with strangers

I think you need to do another study. This time, go ahead and hit your driver or thriver and forget about the result. Drop a ball in the middle of each fairway where one of your decent drives would have landed and then go from there. This will provide you with what kind of irons work best for you.

[SoonerBS]

After my experiments i have just bid and brought on flea bay a Nike SQ Sweet 16 Sasquatch (4950). I have a Graffaloy Blue Stiff shaft in the loft that i will be putting in at 43" so i can hit it a little lower than my 5900.

I will probably start carrying both

If you had carried the Thriver against Dave do you think (even with the wind) you might have shot a better score?

Edgey

My Thriver is a NIKE Sasquatch Sweet 16, too.

I carried it against Dave that day. I got it out and used it on a few holes and had some success, but I couldn't use it into the wind and it was a bit windy that day. It really wasn't the clubs I used that day though, it was like I said . . . . . . . the club between my ears.

[edgey]

Good to know you may have at least some respect for the Scientific Method.

Is that like the rythm method?

[famousdavis]

My Thriver is a NIKE Sasquatch Sweet 16, too.

I carried it against Dave that day. I got it out and used it on a few holes and had some success, but I couldn't use it into the wind and it was a bit windy that day. It really wasn't the clubs I used that day though, it was like I said . . . . . . . the club between my ears.

...of what little is there.

[lorenzoinoc]

Is that like the rythm method?

Actually, the Scientific Method is for getting in their pants.

The Rythm Method is for getting out without lasting repercussions.

[edgey]

My Thriver is a NIKE Sasquatch Sweet 16, too.

I carried it against Dave that day. I got it out and used it on a few holes and had some success, but I couldn't use it into the wind and it was a bit windy that day. It really wasn't the clubs I used that day though, it was like I said . . . . . . . the club between my ears.

Who said golf is 99% between the ears and the other 1% is in the head. Sounds like something Trevino might have said

Edgey

[lorenzoinoc]

Who said golf is 99% between the ears and the other 1% is in the head. Sounds like something Trevino might have said

Edgey

Who is Yogi Berra, Alex?

[famousdavis]

I'm going to go in the opposite direction here but are there any really good shovels out there that anyone would recommend? We hear all the time about Mizuno GFF recommendations but I never hear anything about a good quality cavity back. I've been told that both the 2002 and 2004 Callaway Big Bertha irons are good. They don't look too bad either. One of the nicest looking cavity backs I've seen is the Taylor Made Tour Burner irons. They are a stainless cavity back but with very little offset. Great feel as well.

[SoonerBS]

I'm going to go in the opposite direction here but are there any really good shovels out there that anyone would recommend? We hear all the time about Mizuno GFF recommendations but I never hear anything about a good quality cavity back. I've been told that both the 2002 and 2004 Callaway Big Bertha irons are good. They don't look too bad either. One of the nicest looking cavity backs I've seen is the Taylor Made Tour Burner irons. They are a stainless cavity back but with very little offset. Great feel as well.

Ping Eye 2s of course. What have you been smoking?

[famousdavis]

Ping Eye 2s of course. What have you been smoking?

I just say no to drugs. I meant other than Ping Eye 2's, the greatest irons ever created.

[edgey]

I'm going to go in the opposite direction here but are there any really good shovels out there that anyone would recommend? We hear all the time about Mizuno GFF recommendations but I never hear anything about a good quality cavity back. I've been told that both the 2002 and 2004 Callaway Big Bertha irons are good. They don't look too bad either. One of the nicest looking cavity backs I've seen is the Taylor Made Tour Burner irons. They are a stainless cavity back but with very little offset. Great feel as well.

I have a set of 2002 BB irons and i would say they are probably the best GI clubs Callaway have ever produced.

Edgey

[SoonerBS]

I have a set of 2002 BB irons and i would say they are probably the best GI clubs Callaway have ever produced.

Edgey

I have a friend I golf with that plays them as well and has played them for years. He thinks the same way you do . . . . . . .

[Kiwi Player]

I have a set of 2002 BB irons and i would say they are probably the best GI clubs Callaway have ever produced.

Edgey

Which isn't saying much.

[famousdavis]

I have a friend I golf with that plays them as well and has played them for years. He thinks the same way you do . . . . . . .

I have a friend that knows a guy who's brother in law plays them who says they are better than any past or future Mizuno offering.

[dorkman53]

I would agree that distance is less important than accuracy with a driver. However, even if not hitting the driver great, if the iron game is hot, you'll be getting loads of greens in regulation, and your score should be fine, barring a putting meltdown.

If the choices are between good driving and poor driving, obviously the driver is paramount. But if the choice is between good driving and mediocre driving (hitting shorter than usual, hitting into the first cut of rough, but not into fairway bunkers, behind trees, or O.B., then the irons make or break the score for the day.

I've had days where the driver was long and consistent, but if I didn't get the greens in regulation, the score was mediocre at best. I've had days when my drives weren't all that long, but I wasn't getting into serious trouble, and the irons were hot; great scoring days.

Obviously, ALL of the clubs are important, and it's simplistic and simple minded to state dogmatically that one club or set of clubs is all that matters.

[SoonerBS]

I have a friend that knows a guy who's brother in law plays them who says they are better than any past or future Mizuno offering.

That would be my 3rd cousin on mother's side and he doesn't know shite . . . . .

[famousdavis]

I would agree that distance is less important than accuracy with a driver. However, even if not hitting the driver great, if the iron game is hot, you'll be getting loads of greens in regulation, and your score should be fine, barring a putting meltdown.

If the choices are between good driving and poor driving, obviously the driver is paramount. But if the choice is between good driving and mediocre driving (hitting shorter than usual, hitting into the first cut of rough, but not into fairway bunkers, behind trees, or O.B., then the irons make or break the score for the day.

I've had days where the driver was long and consistent, but if I didn't get the greens in regulation, the score was mediocre at best. I've had days when my drives weren't all that long, but I wasn't getting into serious trouble, and the irons were hot; great scoring days.

Obviously, ALL of the clubs are important, and it's simplistic and simple minded to state dogmatically that one club or set of clubs is all that matters.

I think one could argue that the driver and putter are the two variables that determine a good or bad score.

[dorkman53]

I think one could argue that the driver and putter are the two variables that determine a good or bad score.

Agreed....and the wedges, irons, and possibly hybrids.....
Yeah....it's THOSE clubs that are most important.

Once in a while I'll have one of those days where EVERYTHING is in synch, and I'll have a great round. Frequently, though, there is a too frequently repeating flaw in one aspect of the game that adds strokes: Driver a little off, long irons not quite crisp, short irons not as accurate as usual, failing to stick wedges close to the pin, failure to convert up and downs, mis-reading putts, mis-hitting putts, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

To have a great day, everything needs to be clicking simultaneously. To have a good day, some aspect can be a little off. When multiple facets are subnormal, "forgitaboutit...."

[Home-slicer]

Obviously, ALL of the clubs are important, and it's simplistic and simple minded to state dogmatically that one club or set of clubs is all that matters.

This is incorrect. The most important club in the bag is the 8 iron. Because when my driving is not good but not terrible, and my 8 iron is red hot, I have a slightly better than below mediocre day. Conversely, if my putter is slightly worse than good, but not great, and my driver is better than not good, and my eight iron is great, I have slightly better than a below average day. See? It's all about the ocho, baby!!

[famousdavis]

Agreed....and the wedges, irons, and possibly hybrids.....
Yeah....it's THOSE clubs that are most important.

Once in a while I'll have one of those days where EVERYTHING is in synch, and I'll have a great round. Frequently, though, there is a too frequently repeating flaw in one aspect of the game that adds strokes: Driver a little off, long irons not quite crisp, short irons not as accurate as usual, failing to stick wedges close to the pin, failure to convert up and downs, mis-reading putts, mis-hitting putts, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

To have a great day, everything needs to be clicking simultaneously. To have a good day, some aspect can be a little off. When multiple facets are subnormal, "forgitaboutit...."

You've never been wronger. My point is that it really doesn't matter what kind of irons you're playing. As long as you have a driver that suits your game and a putter that suits your eye you're in good shape. If I have 150 yards to the green it really doesn't matter if I'm hitting a Mizuno MP-33 into the green or a Callaway 2002 Big Bertha. Either way I'll get it close with a good swing. With a bad swing the 2002 Big Bertha will end up closer. Therefore, everyone here should be playing cavity back game-improvement clubs. I am right, you are wrong and that's all there is to it.

[daveperkins]

The Rythm Method is for getting out without lasting repercussions.

and it works great.. I know of at least five women with gonorrhea who didn't give it to me solely because we did it in the right week...

[famousdavis]

This is incorrect. The most important club in the bag is the 8 iron. Because when my driving is not good but not terrible, and my 8 iron is red hot, I have a slightly better than below mediocre day. Conversely, if my putter is slightly worse than good, but not great, and my driver is better than not good, and my eight iron is great, I have slightly better than a below average day. See? It's all about the ocho, baby!!

Right. Plus, if you hit your driver into the trees what are you going to use to chip out?....that's right...your 8 iron. If you throw your putter in a lake you'll use your 8 iron to putt. Some people claim that the 7 iron is more important but they're clearly a bunch of idiots.

[lorenzoinoc]

This is incorrect. The most important club in the bag is the 8 iron. Because when my driving is not good but not terrible, and my 8 iron is red hot, I have a slightly better than below mediocre day. Conversely, if my putter is slightly worse than good, but not great, and my driver is better than not good, and my eight iron is great, I have slightly better than a below average day. See? It's all about the ocho, baby!!

It's really not about the driver, irons or putter, it's about the $600 wedges.

[famousdavis]

It's really not about the driver, irons or putter, it's about the $600 wedges.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts I would have beat Noshuz with a couple of $600 wedges.

[lorenzoinoc]

I'll bet you dollars to donuts I would have beat Noshuz with a couple of $600 wedges.

Elin beat Tiger with a $300 5 iron.

[famousdavis]

Hi

I have just finished a little experiment involving my collection of irons. I have played 3 rounds off the comp tees using my MP 68's and 6 rounds using a set of Callaway FT i Brids.

When i used the MP68 irons i used a very traditional 3 - PW set up a Titleist 905r 10.5 degree driver, Mizuno MP wedges and a Titleist 3 and a 5 wood.

The i Brids are from 3 - SW and i did not include a driver using only my Thriver a 7 wood and the Lovett.

I used the same putter an Odyssey Black Series ix #9

I used a Skycaddie to log stats so i could review them in a slightly Larryesque anal way.

Without wishing to get too boring here is what i learned

My worst scores were with the Mizuno irons BUT they had nothing to do with the Irons. Because of my poor driving with a normal driver i consistantly missed fairways (normally to the right) and found myself chipping out which placed a lot of pressure on my medium and short irons which in turn placed a lot of pressure on my putting.

My best scores were with the i Brids BUT this was due to the fact i hit 60% of the fairways with the Thriver. Less pressure on my irons and putting. Interestingly i did find i hit more greens when using the Lovett than my other wedges but i suspect this is due to my confidence with it.

As an experiment i went out with the i Brids AND the Titleist driver. My score was about as poor as when i used the Mizzies for the same reason, wild off the tee.

Finally i went out with the Mizzies and the Thriver/Lovett set up (this looked a bit daft). Scores nearly identical to the i Brid set up.

The only time i noticed any great issue was with the Mizzie long irons (3 & 4) on a long par 3. I did hit the i Brid 3 & 4 more consistantly but this only really made 1 or 2 shots differance overall as i only needed to hit them once per round.

Certainly gave me food for thought

Edgey

I've taken another look at your original post. You shouldn't ignore the fact that you hit your driver worse with the Mizuno irons. The stress of playing blades could have created tension in your driver swing. When playing with forgiving cavity backs you felt at ease and it showed in your driving. This is so plain to see.

[Horseballs]

It's really not about the driver, irons or putter, it's about the $600 wedges.

And, if your $600 wedges aren't hitting all the shots, the grind is probably off a bit. Send it back to Scratch and for an extra few hundred dollars, you'll be back in business.

[oldplayer]

You've never been wronger. My point is that it really doesn't matter what kind of irons you're playing. As long as you have a driver that suits your game and a putter that suits your eye you're in good shape. If I have 150 yards to the green it really doesn't matter if I'm hitting a Mizuno MP-33 into the green or a Callaway 2002 Big Bertha. Either way I'll get it close with a good swing. With a bad swing the 2002 Big Bertha will end up closer. Therefore, everyone here should be playing cavity back game-improvement clubs. I am right, you are wrong and that's all there is to it.

I largely agree with this. Although I always respect Dorkmans opinion. I have said many times on this forum that irons don't affect score greatly. I have bagged many different ones and have had times when I',ve changed frequently. A driver that is solid and a putter that gets the job done are far more important. Also getting up and down is very important to score so irons/wedges that work for you need to be a factor in a good score. My bag is nicely sorted at the moment. Driver and putter are going very well (nickent 4dx with speeder 686 and a Ken Giovani designed Rawlings blade). My last round was 74 and my mid and linog iron play was only average.

[lorenzoinoc]

And, if your $600 wedges aren't hitting all the shots, the grind is probably off a bit. Send it back to Scratch and for an extra few hundred dollars, you'll be back in business.

You just have to be a little careful with the accounting. Since you might feel ridiculous with a $900 wedge, it's important to expense the extra few hundred rather than treat it like cap ex.

[Horseballs]

You just have to be a little careful with the accounting. Since you might feel ridiculous with a $900 wedge, it's important to expense the extra few hundred rather than treat it like cap ex.

It's OK. I treat my $600 wedges as depreciating assets.

[oldplayer]

You just have to be a little careful with the accounting. Since you might feel ridiculous with a $900 wedge, it's important to expense the extra few hundred rather than treat it like cap ex.

I think a $1000 has a nice ring to it. While the grind is getting a touch-up why not get some custom stamping or paintfill. that should bring the cost up to the nice round figure.

[oldplayer]

It's OK. I treat my $600 wedges as depreciating assets.

When you're playing bad you could treat your game the same way.

[famousdavis]

I think a $1000 has a nice ring to it. While the grind is getting a touch-up why not get some custom stamping or paintfill. that should bring the cost up to the nice round figure.

Since it's so expensive you'll need insurance and one of those cart bags with a locking mechanism on the cover. That's another $250. That brings us to a total of $1250 which really isn't that unreasonable considering what you get in return.

[dorkman53]

I largely agree with this. Although I always respect Dorkmans opinion. I have said many times on this forum that irons don't affect score greatly. I have bagged many different ones and have had times when I',ve changed frequently. A driver that is solid and a putter that gets the job done are far more important. Also getting up and down is very important to score so irons/wedges that work for you need to be a factor in a good score. My bag is nicely sorted at the moment. Driver and putter are going very well (nickent 4dx with speeder 686 and a Ken Giovani designed Rawlings blade). My last round was 74 and my mid and linog iron play was only average.

I wasn't referring to the style of irons played, but to whether one is hitting his irons well that day, whatever is in his bag.
Clearly, the most important clubs in the bag are the driver (if any), fairway woods (if any), hybrids (if any), irons, wedges, and putter......

I stand firmly on this opinion, and cannot be swayed by argument, logic, or rational exposition of opposising viewpoints......in true GR fashion....

[lorenzoinoc]

Since it's so expensive you'll need insurance and one of those cart bags with a locking mechanism on the cover. That's another $250. That brings us to a total of $1250 which really isn't that unreasonable considering what you get in return.

If you want to really trick it out, don't forget the Surburban and trailer for transporting the wedge. It would total over $80,000 but you could play all the shots and keep it looking nice.

[famousdavis]

If you want to really trick it out, don't forget the Surburban and trailer for transporting the wedge. It would total over $80,000 but you could play all the shots and keep it looking nice.

Actually, you'd probably want one of those briefcases with a foam mold that fits snuggly around the club that you could handcuff to your wrist. That's easily $500.

[edgey]

I've taken another look at your original post. You shouldn't ignore the fact that you hit your driver worse with the Mizuno irons. The stress of playing blades could have created tension in your driver swing. When playing with forgiving cavity backs you felt at ease and it showed in your driving. This is so plain to see.

Yours is the superior logic.

I would say that the i brids are also very good irons, if you like that sort of thing.

Edgey

[famousdavis]

Yours is the superior logic.

I would say that the i brids are also very good irons, if you like that sort of thing.

Edgey

I've thought about doing a cavity shovel experiment. I'd like to see how I play with extreme game improvement irons. With that in mind, I have put a bid on a set of Callaway Big Bertha 2002 Irons with stock Callaway Graphite Shafts w/ Firm Flex. The set is 3-Gap Wedge. All of the other clubs will remain the same. I've been thinking of going to graphite anyway because of the torn rotator in my shoulder. I figure the graphite will be easier on my joints. If I don't like the shovels I can always get a set of Ping S59 irons with graphite shafts.

I would not call the Ping Eye 2 irons extreme game improvement because the heads are about the same size as a MP-62 and the shafts are pretty stiff.

[edgey]

I've thought about doing a cavity shovel experiment. I'd like to see how I play with extreme game improvement irons. With that in mind, I have put a bid on a set of Callaway Big Bertha 2002 Irons with stock Callaway Graphite Shafts w/ Firm Flex. The set is 3-Gap Wedge. All of the other clubs will remain the same. I've been thinking of going to graphite anyway because of the torn rotator in my shoulder. I figure the graphite will be easier on my joints. If I don't like the shovels I can always get a set of Ping S59 irons with graphite shafts.

I would not call the Ping Eye 2 irons extreme game improvement because the heads are about the same size as a MP-62 and the shafts are pretty stiff.

You wont go wrong with the Callaway 2002 BB, great clubs. In fact they are probably my all time favourite Callaway irons (other than the X Forged Prototypes)

I wouldnt call them SGI, not when you compare them to the i Brids. Certainly more GI than Ping Eye 2 though.

Good luck with your experiment.

Edgey

[famousdavis]

You wont go wrong with the Callaway 2002 BB, great clubs. In fact they are probably my all time favourite Callaway irons (other than the X Forged Prototypes)

I wouldnt call them SGI, not when you compare them to the i Brids. Certainly more GI than Ping Eye 2 though.

Good luck with your experiment.

Edgey

Are you talking about the 2009 Callaway X-Forged?

[Pky6471]

I have a set of 2002 BB irons and i would say they are probably the best GI clubs Callaway have ever produced.

Edgey

I have the same set...very good set of irons.. no doubt
BTW..your experiment is sufficient to see the trend...almost a "corner lots" in DOE, statistically we would need for to draw conclusions but enough to show the trends.. I like that work, confirm that we don't need the blade ego to go with a good swing

[SoonerBS]

I have the same set...very good set of irons.. no doubt
BTW..your experiment is sufficient to see the trend...almost a "corner lots" in DOE, statistically we would need for to draw conclusions but enough to show the trends.. I like that work, confirm that we don't need the blade ego to go with a good swing

Which leads us to another topic of discussion -- interpreting the evidence to fit your own biased view.

[Jeff_h]

Which leads us to another topic of discussion -- interpreting the evidence to fit your own biased view.

Hey....

It works for the greenie weanies!

When in doubt, skew the statistics and lose the data!

Fecking idiots.

[edgey]

Are you talking about the 2009 Callaway X-Forged?

No, the Cally X Forged Prototype are the same irons usedby Els and Moobs. Muira forged blades, better than any Mizuno. Thats right, i said it!

Edgey

[famousdavis]

I just noticed that Callaway has a new irons out called the X-24 Hot. I like the prototype irons as well. Very cool looking. Puts any Mizuno to shame.

[Jeff_h]

No, the Cally X Forged Prototype are the same irons usedby Els and Moobs. Muira forged blades, better than any Mizuno. Thats right, i said it!

Edgey

Not to be overly picky, but......

"Miura"

[famousdavis]

Not to be overly picky, but......

"Miura"

I thought Els and Mick played Callaway, not Miura.

[Steelman]

I thought Els and Mick played Callaway, not Miura.

Miura makes a lot of clubs for other manufacturers that carry the other manufacturer's logos and such stamped on them. I would not be surprised if Miura is making Callaway's forged clubs for Els and Moobs. My Miura's carry the EM-50 logo and not a Miura logo for example.

[famousdavis]

Miura makes a lot of clubs for other manufacturers that carry the other manufacturer's logos and such stamped on them. I would not be surprised if Miura is making Callaway's forged clubs for Els and Moobs. My Miura's carry the EM-50 logo and not a Miura logo for example.

I'm sorry but that just doesn't sit well with me.

[Steelman]

Which part? I was kidding about me. I have no Miura's though I would like to have some.

As for Callaway, I do not know if Miura makes them or not but Miura has made many a club for many a manufacturer over the years.

[famousdavis]

Which part? I was kidding about me. I have no Miura's though I would like to have some.

As for Callaway, I do not know if Miura makes them or not but Miura has made many a club for many a manufacturer over the years.

I'm joking. I don't care who makes them.

[The Purist]

Hey....

It works for the greenie weanies!

When in doubt, skew the statistics and lose the data!

Fecking idiots.

Jeff, Please tell me you aren't one of those brick heads that don't believe in science. One bad scientist doesn't discredit thousands of accurate scientists.

I don't care about global warming either, but the science is sound. Humans produce a $hitload of CO2, CO2 either gets absorbed by the oceans (raising pH) or accumulates in the atmosphere, the higher the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere...the more heat the atmosphere retains...the more heat the atmosphere retains, the higher the evaporation rate, the higher the evaporation rate the more water vapor is present in the atmosphere...more water vapor in atmosphere = even more greenhouse effect...etc.

I'm not changing my lifestyle either, but I'm honest with myself. Humans can have an impact on the planet.

PS--If you believe the Earth was created in literally 7 days and that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, then I apologize for bothering you.

[Steelman]

I'm joking. I don't care who makes them.

I knew you were joking. I was trying to set up some more Moobs humor! I failed miserably.

[famousdavis]

Jeff, Please tell me you aren't one of those brick heads that don't believe in science. One bad scientist doesn't discredit thousands of accurate scientists.

I don't care about global warming either, but the science is sound. Humans produce a $hitload of CO2, CO2 either gets absorbed by the oceans (raising pH) or accumulates in the atmosphere, the higher the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere...the more heat the atmosphere retains...the more heat the atmosphere retains, the higher the evaporation rate, the higher the evaporation rate the more water vapor is present in the atmosphere...more water vapor in atmosphere = even more greenhouse effect...etc.

I'm not changing my lifestyle either, but I'm honest with myself. Humans can have an impact on the planet.

PS--If you believe the Earth was created in literally 7 days and that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, then I apologize for bothering you.

All I know is it's May 11th and still cold and raining. So much for global warming.

[Home-slicer]

:idea

Jeff, Please tell me you aren't one of those brick heads that don't believe in science. One bad scientist doesn't discredit thousands of accurate scientists.

I don't care about global warming either, but the science is sound. Humans produce a $hitload of CO2, CO2 either gets absorbed by the oceans (raising pH) or accumulates in the atmosphere,.

Is that a metric $hitload or an English Standard $hitload you are referring to Mr. Bill Nye Science Guy?

[The Purist]

All I know is it's May 11th and still cold and raining. So much for global warming.

True that.

I love how guys say "This global warming must be real, it was 100* last July 4th" or "It snowed last winter, so how could global warming be real."

The science of the greenhouse effect is real. These guys who say the world is going to end in 50 years if we don't lower our carbon foot print are out on the fringe...as are the people who don't think our CO2 emission have any effect on our environment.

[The Purist]

:idea

Is that a metric $hitload or an English Standard $hitload you are referring to Mr. Bill Nye Science Guy?

I have to believe Americans probably take the biggest $hits on the planet....so, we better keep that in standard for now.

[SDB1]

Jeff, Please tell me you aren't one of those brick heads that don't believe in science. One bad scientist doesn't discredit thousands of accurate scientists.

I don't care about global warming either, but the science is sound. Humans produce a $hitload of CO2, CO2 either gets absorbed by the oceans (raising pH) or accumulates in the atmosphere, the higher the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere...the more heat the atmosphere retains...the more heat the atmosphere retains, the higher the evaporation rate, the higher the evaporation rate the more water vapor is present in the atmosphere...more water vapor in atmosphere = even more greenhouse effect...etc.

I'm not changing my lifestyle either, but I'm honest with myself. Humans can have an impact on the planet.

PS--If you believe the Earth was created in literally 7 days and that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, then I apologize for bothering you.

None of that crap matters. This is why I don't get behind the green movement. The science might be sound but the solutions aren't. Population growth will ALWAYS outpace the efforts to curb emmissions. It's the same reason I don't waste my time or money to help with starvation in 3rd world countries. Until you get to the root of the problem you're just spinning your wheels and wasting your money.

Governments know this but they do nothing to curb the problem. Instead they come up with nonsesne solutions that do little more than transfer wealth from one group of people to another. It's smoke and mirrors.

Idealogues will always have their causes. That's fine, but it's like trying to put out a forest fire with nothing more than a squirt gun! We'll overpopulate this planet and use up all it's resources before we destroy the environment. Maybe both at the same time! No amount of Priuses on the road will fix that!

[SDB1]

I have to believe Americans probably take the biggest $hits on the planet....so, we better keep that in standard for now.

You're joking right? Obviously you've never been to India, China or Mexico. Of the large industrialized nations America is very clean!

[famousdavis]

None of that crap matters. This is why I don't get behind the green movement. The science might be sound but the solutions aren't. Population growth will ALWAYS outpace the efforts to curb emmissions. It's the same reason I don't waste my time or money to help with starvation in 3rd world countries. Until you get to the root of the problem you're just spinning your wheels and wasting your money.

Governments know this but they do nothing to curb the problem. Instead they come up with nonsesne solutions that do little more than transfer wealth from one group of people to another. It's smoke and mirrors.

Idealogues will always have their causes. That's fine, but it's like trying to put out a forest fire with nothing more than a squirt gun! We'll overpopulate this planet and use up all it's resources before we destroy the environment. Maybe both at the same time! No amount of Priuses on the road will fix that!

We know that eventually the human race is doomed. The planet can only accomadate so many people. More people means the need for more power plants resulting in additional emmissions. I guess I don't see the big deal. Human beings are so selfish and self centered and think the planet can't survive without them. Earth will be around for another 100 million years and humans won't make a dent. When we talk about "green" or caring about the planet what we're really talking about is ensuring the longevity of the human race. Meanwhile, the planet could care less. As global warming gets worse humans will adapt in one way or another. Billions may be killed off but I'm sure enough will survive to prolong the species for a few thousand years. No big deal. You may ask "what about future generations?". I'll be dead.

[Kiwi Player]

We know that eventually the human race is doomed. The planet can only accomadate so many people. More people means the need for more power plants resulting in additional emmissions. I guess I don't see the big deal. Human beings are so selfish and self centered and think the planet can't survive without them. Earth will be around for another 100 million years and humans won't make a dent. When we talk about "green" or caring about the planet what we're really talking about is ensuring the longevity of the human race. Meanwhile, the planet could care less. As global warming gets worse humans will adapt in one way or another. Billions may be killed off but I'm sure enough will survive to prolong the species for a few thousand years. No big deal. You may ask "what about future generations?". I'll be dead.

Which makes me all the more pissed off that our patsy fukking Govt is implementing a fukking ridiculous "Emissions Trading Scheme" when the rest of the world collectively said "Screw that!" at Copenhagen. Even our closest trading partner Australia, lead by a bunch of Left Wing Loonies, have balked at the idea. Our previous Left wing regime initiated this BS but when I helped vote them out I assumed our new centre right Govt would pull the pin on this BS. Instead they have modified it but are still pushing it through. It will cost us all money, anything that uses energy will effectively be taxed and the costs will be passed on to consumers. The reason that we are told we need to do this is because the greenies in the Northern Hemisphere are pushing the idea of "food miles". If a product is shipped halfway around the world think of the carbon emissions it took to get to the shelf in your local store. So to offset this greeny lunacy we implement an EMT and all will be right. It is an absolute wrought. Meanwhile little old NZ produces something like 0.01% of the worlds carbon emissions. What a crock of sh_it!

[Kiwi Player]

I thought Els and Mick played Callaway, not Miura.

Basically what we're trying to explain is that Callaway specializes in making garbage, overpriced, overrated mass produced chopper shite for the legions of gullible hackers who think they can buy a game if they spend enough money.

When they actually want to make a half decent players iron, they need someone else to make it for them.

[Steelman]

Basically what we're trying to explain is that Callaway specializes in making garbage, overpriced, overrated mass produced chopper shite for the legions of gullible hackers who think they can buy a game if they spend enough money.

When they actually want to make a half decent players iron, they need someone else to make it for them.

Pretty much it in a nutshell. Eli Callaway's business model was raise the price on equipment, market it as being a huge departure from the norm and therefore good for your game, sell the hell out of it, then ever year to 18 months come out with a whole new line and repeat the process. The really sad thing is how many OEMs have follow this model now. TaylorMade, since adidas bought them, is a huge offender. Titleist got pricey because they could yet they are not in the quick turnover of equipment as Callaway and TM.

Golf marketing is pretty simple. Promise more distance and the male golfer will buy it. Be it a club, be it a ball, be it a damned training aid, just promise more distance without the golfer having to do anything different. Look at Callaway's new X24. Longest iron they have ever made according to their website. As I said, pimp distance and the product sells.

Found the Ebay offering by Blade golf for $849 for Miura raw blades they custom make for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Miura-Bla...item4ce90d7256

[FreakOfNature]

We know that eventually the human race is doomed. The planet can only accomadate so many people. More people means the need for more power plants resulting in additional emmissions. I guess I don't see the big deal. Human beings are so selfish and self centered and think the planet can't survive without them. Earth will be around for another 100 million years and humans won't make a dent. When we talk about "green" or caring about the planet what we're really talking about is ensuring the longevity of the human race. Meanwhile, the planet could care less. As global warming gets worse humans will adapt in one way or another. Billions may be killed off but I'm sure enough will survive to prolong the species for a few thousand years. No big deal. You may ask "what about future generations?". I'll be dead.

The real threat that humans face from global warming isn't the heat or even rising sea levels - it's climate change, and the resulting pressures that is having on our agricultural infrastructure. Everyone needs food, and most people are smart enough to realize that potatoes and tomatoes don't grow in the produce section of the local supermarket, that their bacon was once a pig roaming around on a farm, and that their steak was once a cow grazing in a pasture.

At the current rate of warming, we can all be guaranteed to feel the effects where it hurts the most - right in that big fat ass-pad called the wallet. Most agricultural regions are overstressed already, changes in local weather patterns aren't helping the situation with a greater occurrence of failed crops, poor growing seasons, and some areas are rapidly losing viability for agriculture completely. All of this is going to impact each and every one of us in our lifetimes (it already is), with higher prices for food, lower quality food, greater scarcity of certain foods... it's increasing the cost of living for all of us quite noticeably on an almost daily basis as our agricultural infrastructure continues to erode.

It's common sense, but for some reason people would rather b!tch about taxes, the cost of a gallon of gas, wealth redistribution, etc... as if somehow the ever-rising tide of food costs won't equally hurt the global economy. I just don't get the complacency... people get all up in arms when the government starts to nickel-and-dime them with taxes, but don't bat an eyelash when they see a loaf of bread costing 10 cents more than it did last year, or when their $7 steak now costs $8. I guess they just don't want to see the connection. It's everyone's problem.



FON

[famousdavis]

Pretty much it in a nutshell. Eli Callaway's business model was raise the price on equipment, market it as being a huge departure from the norm and therefore good for your game, sell the hell out of it, then ever year to 18 months come out with a whole new line and repeat the process. The really sad thing is how many OEMs have follow this model now. TaylorMade, since adidas bought them, is a huge offender. Titleist got pricey because they could yet they are not in the quick turnover of equipment as Callaway and TM.

Golf marketing is pretty simple. Promise more distance and the male golfer will buy it. Be it a club, be it a ball, be it a damned training aid, just promise more distance without the golfer having to do anything different. Look at Callaway's new X24. Longest iron they have ever made according to their website. As I said, pimp distance and the product sells.

Found the Ebay offering by Blade golf for $849 for Miura raw blades they custom make for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Miura-Bla...item4ce90d7256

You have to give Callaway some credit for coming out with the Big Bertha back in 1991. It was a groundbreaking club in its design and size and was truly easier to hit than other models. They broke new ground with the Great Big Bertha as well. I remember back in the early 90's when it wasn't a rarity to have every player in your foursome playing with a big bertha driver. I think Taylormade is way more shameful with the number of drivers and clubs they put out every year. Meanwhile, Mizuno still has yet to put out a decent driver.

[Steelman]

I don't want to say Callaway does not nor never did produce good clubs but they do and did use a LOT of marketing hype to sell their clubs at a higher price than the norm and still do.

[Kiwi Player]

You have to give Callaway some credit for coming out with the Big Bertha back in 1991. It was a groundbreaking club in its design and size and was truly easier to hit than other models. They broke new ground with the Great Big Bertha as well. I remember back in the early 90's when it wasn't a rarity to have every player in your foursome playing with a big bertha driver. I think Taylormade is way more shameful with the number of drivers and clubs they put out every year. Meanwhile, Mizuno still has yet to put out a decent driver.

Even the Mizzy Nazi's of GR will concede this.

[famousdavis]

Even the Mizzy Nazi's of GR will concede this.

The Ping i10 iron seems to be a good compromise between game improvement and having a player's look to it. It has very little offset in the short irons (about the same as a forged blade) as well as a compact appearance. I would need to find a set with Z-Z65 shafts because I hate the feel of the AWT.

Anyone try the i10?

[Steelman]

I hit the i10 at some demo days and hated it. I have hit some Ping irons I like but the i10 was not a good iron to me. Felt harsh.

[famousdavis]

I hit the i10 at some demo days and hated it. I have hit some Ping irons I like but the i10 was not a good iron to me. Felt harsh.

How about the i15? Have you tried those?

[clmax]

So the conclusion I am drawing from reading this thread is that golf club manufacturers should stop following the rapid-fire Calloway business model. This would slow the industrial engine that causes global warming saving humanity and the planet in the process.

Did I miss anything?

[famousdavis]

So the conclusion I am drawing from reading this thread is that golf club manufacturers should stop following the rapid-fire Calloway business model. This would slow the industrial engine that causes global warming saving humanity and the planet in the process.

Did I miss anything?

Yes...you spelled Callaway incorrectly.

[clmax]

Yes...you spelled Callaway incorrectly.

That was for emphasis as to how often I consider any of thier products.

[famousdavis]

That was for emphasis as to how often I consider any of thier products.

That's why I like Ping products. Ping comes out with a new model maybe once every 3 or 4 years. Plus, they make their products in America. All of Mizuno's products look identical to the previous year's model and I'm sorry but it's getting old. Mizuno has yet to make a solid driver.

[Jeff_h]

Jeff, Please tell me you aren't one of those brick heads that don't believe in science. One bad scientist doesn't discredit thousands of accurate scientists.

I don't care about global warming either, but the science is sound. Humans produce a $hitload of CO2, CO2 either gets absorbed by the oceans (raising pH) or accumulates in the atmosphere, the higher the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere...the more heat the atmosphere retains...the more heat the atmosphere retains, the higher the evaporation rate, the higher the evaporation rate the more water vapor is present in the atmosphere...more water vapor in atmosphere = even more greenhouse effect...etc.

I'm not changing my lifestyle either, but I'm honest with myself. Humans can have an impact on the planet.

PS--If you believe the Earth was created in literally 7 days and that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, then I apologize for bothering you.

Let's see....

I've worked on over a dozen NASA missions........

Done work at JPL.....

Done work at Brookhaven National Labs.......

Currently work for one of the top 5 defense and aerospace companies in the world.....

You work for a general contractor, right?

Would you care to talk about net CO2 sinks and the 800 year lag?

Perhaps mass extinction events and their relevance based on analyzation of the fossil record?

Or would you rather talk about the farce that is the green movement in terms of macro economics?

Oh....and I'm spiritual but not religious.

Don't feck with me with it comes to technical sh!t dude. I'll embarrass you.

[famousdavis]

Let's see....

I've worked on over a dozen NASA missions........

Done work at JPL.....

Done work at Brookhaven National Labs.......

Currently work for one of the top 5 defense and aerospace companies in the world.....

You work for a general contractor, right?

Would you care to talk about net CO2 sinks and the 800 year lag?

Perhaps mass extinction events and their relevance based on analyzation of the fossil record?

Or would you rather talk about the farce that is the green movement in terms of macro economics?

Oh....and I'm spiritual but not religious.

Don't feck with me with it comes to technical sh!t dude. I'll embarrass you.

Isn't the 800 year lag one of Larry's key swing thoughts?

[Jeff_h]

The real threat that humans face from global warming isn't the heat or even rising sea levels - it's climate change, and the resulting pressures that is having on our agricultural infrastructure. Everyone needs food, and most people are smart enough to realize that potatoes and tomatoes don't grow in the produce section of the local supermarket, that their bacon was once a pig roaming around on a farm, and that their steak was once a cow grazing in a pasture.

At the current rate of warming, we can all be guaranteed to feel the effects where it hurts the most - right in that big fat ass-pad called the wallet. Most agricultural regions are overstressed already, changes in local weather patterns aren't helping the situation with a greater occurrence of failed crops, poor growing seasons, and some areas are rapidly losing viability for agriculture completely. All of this is going to impact each and every one of us in our lifetimes (it already is), with higher prices for food, lower quality food, greater scarcity of certain foods... it's increasing the cost of living for all of us quite noticeably on an almost daily basis as our agricultural infrastructure continues to erode.

It's common sense, but for some reason people would rather b!tch about taxes, the cost of a gallon of gas, wealth redistribution, etc... as if somehow the ever-rising tide of food costs won't equally hurt the global economy. I just don't get the complacency... people get all up in arms when the government starts to nickel-and-dime them with taxes, but don't bat an eyelash when they see a loaf of bread costing 10 cents more than it did last year, or when their $7 steak now costs $8. I guess they just don't want to see the connection. It's everyone's problem.



FON

You do know that Phil Jones admitted in an interview about 2 months ago that the data reflects the fact that there has been no statistically signifant warming in 15 years, yes?

Do you know who Phil Jones is?

And "most agricultural regions are overstressed already"??? Says who?

Wanna talk about how the water for irrigation in the central California valley got turned back on because of some political bullsh!t?

And if the agricultural infrastructure is in such bad shape, why in the feck are governments talking about allocating agricultural resources exclusively for the manufacture of bio-fuels? Use your fecking brain dude.

The thing that is REALLY so amazing is how so large a portion of society has lost the ability to analytically / critically think.

[lorenzoinoc]

So the conclusion I am drawing from reading this thread is that golf club manufacturers should stop following the rapid-fire Calloway business model. This would slow the industrial engine that causes global warming saving humanity and the planet in the process.

Did I miss anything?

Just the part about Callaway improving Hillary Clinton's sex life by coming out with a line of extra-stiff cigars.

[Pky6471]

Which leads us to another topic of discussion -- interpreting the evidence to fit your own biased view.

Why do I know that some big ego blade players would come out of the woodwork and be on the defensive. U talk like a statistician but I can bet that U don't know what DOE is and how to use it correctly

[Steelman]

How about the i15? Have you tried those?

i15 is a lot better than i10. Had a much more solid feel to me and wasn't so harsh. I just didn't like the i10 at all. I would definitely try the i15 first.

[SoonerBS]

You have to give Callaway some credit for coming out with the Big Bertha back in 1991. It was a groundbreaking club in its design and size and was truly easier to hit than other models. They broke new ground with the Great Big Bertha as well. I remember back in the early 90's when it wasn't a rarity to have every player in your foursome playing with a big bertha driver. I think Taylormade is way more shameful with the number of drivers and clubs they put out every year. Meanwhile, Mizuno still has yet to put out a decent driver.

I bag the MX 700 and like it a lot. I was killing it today with my new Pershing shaft . . . . .

[SoonerBS]

Why do I know that some big ego blade players would come out of the woodwork and be on the defensive. U talk like a statistician but I can bet that U don't know what DOE is and how to use it correctly

Go read Edgey's posts again and you will find that there is nothing conclusive about which is better -- cavity back or blades. The main difference stated was in the driver vs. thriver. Besides, I play both the MP-52 cavity backs and the 67 blades, so I could care less what he proved to be better.

[FreakOfNature]

You do know that Phil Jones admitted in an interview about 2 months ago that the data reflects the fact that there has been no statistically signifant warming in 15 years, yes?

I didn't realize that global warming was only a 15 year trend. Thanks for pointing that out. You should email Mr. Jones and tell him the other 985 years of historical temperature data he has written papers about are irrelevant, since a 12 year hiccup is all it takes to disprove a 1000 year trend. That's right, a whopping 1.5% of the data invalidates the other 98.5%. Your claim - not mine.

Do you know who Phil Jones is?

The climatologist from the University of East Anglia who was involved in the "climategate" e-mail scandal? The one where no apparent wrongdoing occurred?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80...n-researchers/

Funny what you learn if you follow up on accusations after the fact...

And "most agricultural regions are overstressed already"??? Says who?

These people, for starters:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0220184329.htm

There's also this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate...nd_agriculture

Wanna talk about how the water for irrigation in the central California valley got turned back on because of some political bullsh!t?

Not really, I'd rather stick to the science.

And if the agricultural infrastructure is in such bad shape, why in the feck are governments talking about allocating agricultural resources exclusively for the manufacture of bio-fuels? Use your fecking brain dude.

Better question: Can you figure out why I oppose bio-fuels as a viable solution to our emission problems? Don't scratch all the remaining hair off your head trying to figure it out... the answer is pretty obvious. We need those areas for food production to support our currently ballooning population, and will be relying on those areas even moreso in the future. Bio-fuels are just a way to borrow from Paul to pay Peter. You create more problems than you solve with idiotic "pass-the-buck" solutions like that.

The thing that is REALLY so amazing is how so large a portion of society has lost the ability to analytically / critically think.

It does baffle the mind at times.



FON

[dorkman53]

I didn't realize that global warming was only a 15 year trend. Thanks for pointing that out. You should email Mr. Jones and tell him the other 985 years of historical temperature data he has written papers about are irrelevant, since a 12 year hiccup is all it takes to disprove a 1000 year trend. That's right, a whopping 1.5% of the data invalidates the other 98.5%. Your claim - not mine.



The climatologist from the University of East Anglia who was involved in the "climategate" e-mail scandal? The one where no apparent wrongdoing occurred?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80...n-researchers/

Funny what you learn if you follow up on accusations after the fact...



These people, for starters:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0220184329.htm

There's also this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate...nd_agriculture



Not really, I'd rather stick to the science.



Better question: Can you figure out why I oppose bio-fuels as a viable solution to our emission problems? Don't scratch all the remaining hair off your head trying to figure it out... the answer is pretty obvious. We need those areas for food production to support our currently ballooning population, and will be relying on those areas even moreso in the future. Bio-fuels are just a way to borrow from Paul to pay Peter. You create more problems than you solve with idiotic "pass-the-buck" solutions like that.



It does baffle the mind at times.



FON

Yeah....I guess the industrial revolution and the mass burning of fossil fuels did begin about 1000 years ago, didn't it?

Yosemite Valley was carved by glaciers. There are no glaciers there now, and haven't been for a long time. I guess the Native Americans built too many campfires.

If you were going to try to place sensors around the world to see if the temperatures were rising, would you place them in cities or in rural areas, away from artificial sources of heat? Well, I guess that depends on if you are trying to prove something by producing flawed data.......

If you were involved in honest debate on a subject, why would one try to blackball and prevent publications of articles which disagreed with the "truth?"

Ever wonder why the oceans warm and cool periodically? Aware of deep ocean superheated vents of hot water scattered throughout the world?

Ever wonder why many of the other planets in our solar system are also showing warming trends? My Honda's exhaust must travel a long way......

Any idea how much money Al Gore has made on his climate scam? (Hint....follow the money......)


P.S. I am NOT saying that there isn't evidence of global warming. I am saying that it is far more complex than the overly simplistic explanations proposed by those who stand to gain financially by causing a panic mentality, and that unilaterally crippling the US economy while India and China (who collectively outnumber us by over 6:1) continue their practices without significant alteration, is lunacy.

I'm also saying that the "science" behind the global warming is flawed in design, and is morally bankrupt. The scandal in England bares the prostitution of science for political purposes.

[edgey]

Not to be overly picky, but......

"Miura"

I stand ashamed at this, i would like to blame the pressure of 2 little girls wanting to watch Pepper Pig.

I hate Pepper Pig

Edgey

[edgey]

Hi

As an owner of Callaway X Prototypes, Mizzie MP68 and Miura CB202 i would say that the Callaway are as good as anything i have ever hit. I admire the fact they went to the best to manufacture their best club.

Edgey

[The Purist]

Let's see....

I've worked on over a dozen NASA missions........

Done work at JPL.....

Done work at Brookhaven National Labs.......

Currently work for one of the top 5 defense and aerospace companies in the world.....

You work for a general contractor, right?

Would you care to talk about net CO2 sinks and the 800 year lag?

Perhaps mass extinction events and their relevance based on analyzation of the fossil record?

Or would you rather talk about the farce that is the green movement in terms of macro economics?

Oh....and I'm spiritual but not religious.

Don't feck with me with it comes to technical sh!t dude. I'll embarrass you.

Awesome. You and Larry are both rocket scientists...You guys have a lot in common. I was a biologist before I was a contractor. I only want you to disprove 3 things: 1. The greenhouse effect is real. 2.CO2 is a greenhouse gas. 3.Humans produce CO2 when they use oil products.

Anything else you want to bring up is likely a distraction to avoid answering the question, but feel free.

[Pky6471]

No, the Cally X Forged Prototype are the same irons usedby Els and Moobs. Muira forged blades, better than any Mizuno. Thats right, i said it!

Edgey

Edgey... Maybe you should prove that the SBS

[The Purist]

You're joking right? Obviously you've never been to India, China or Mexico. Of the large industrialized nations America is very clean!

Not Joking. I take a certain amount of pride in the size of my logs. A trophy sized log should be shared with friends and family.