Question About Eye 2 Irons

[SoonerBS]

I'm experimenting, so don't jump to conclusions (although this is GR and you are certainly entitled to jump to conclusions and start flaming immediately).

I have just purchased some PING Eye 2 + Irons, green dot, 4-PW with stiff ZZ Lite shafts for $129.00 on Ebay. They are in good shape according to pictures and they were too cheap to pass up for experimentation.

My question is this, should I try to use these with the current shafts already in them, or should I purchase some Nippon 100 (Titleist pullouts 4-PW) shafts to put in them for an extra $70.00. I am planning on taking the shafts out as soon as I receive them and spine align them and put new grips on them before I play them anyway.

What would you do?

[famousdavis]

I'm experimenting, so don't jump to conclusions (although this is GR and you are certainly entitled to jump to conclusions and start flaming immediately).

I have just purchased some PING Eye 2 + Irons, green dot, 4-PW with stiff ZZ Lite shafts for $129.00 on Ebay. They are in good shape according to pictures and they were too cheap to pass up for experimentation.

My question is this, should I try to use these with the current shafts already in them, or should I purchase some Nippon 100 (Titleist pullouts 4-PW) shafts to put in them for an extra $70.00. I am planning on taking the shafts out as soon as I receive them and spine align them and put new grips on them before I play them anyway.

What would you do?

Keep the ZZ-Lite shafts in them. That's the best shaft for those clubs and it provides a perfect ball flight. I just bought a set of Ping Eye 2 blue dots (square groove model) off Ebay for $124 and they are in better condition than any previous Ping Eye 2 set I've bought before. I just bought some Ping NTS grips and will put them on this evening.

Sooner, make sure you put on some new Ping Grips and keep the ZZ-Lite shaft. That's the whole point. Otherwise, you're really not playing Ping Eye 2 irons. Oh my sons, my rebellious sons.

[edgey]

I'm experimenting, so don't jump to conclusions (although this is GR and you are certainly entitled to jump to conclusions and start flaming immediately).

I have just purchased some PING Eye 2 + Irons, green dot, 4-PW with stiff ZZ Lite shafts for $129.00 on Ebay. They are in good shape according to pictures and they were too cheap to pass up for experimentation.

My question is this, should I try to use these with the current shafts already in them, or should I purchase some Nippon 100 (Titleist pullouts 4-PW) shafts to put in them for an extra $70.00. I am planning on taking the shafts out as soon as I receive them and spine align them and put new grips on them before I play them anyway.

What would you do?

The last time i said "I am experimenting" Camp Freddy pissed himself and offered to fix me up, be careful how you word things Sooner.

The ZZ Lite are very good shafts and if you are only messing not worth changing. I would play them as is for a few rounds and get a feel for the clubs. If you hate the look changing the shaft or spine aligning wont help.

Take them out and give them an outing, FD would be proud of you

Edgey

[SoonerBS]

I certainly plan on playing them a round or two to see how they stack up against irons played by real men.

Hey, I thought all the PING Eye 2s were "square grooved." Mine say they are square grooved, too, but i didn't realize that the Eye 2s were anything but sguare grooves.

[SoonerBS]

I certainly plan on playing them a round or two to see how they stack up against irons played by real men.

Hey, I thought all the PING Eye 2s were "square grooved." Mine say they are square grooved, too, but i didn't realize that the Eye 2s were anything but sguare grooves.

[SoonerBS]

I am almost certain I did not stutter while posting that last post. I don't know why that happened.

[Kiwi Player]

First it was Oldplayer, now SoonerBS and I must admit even I am intrigued by these legendary Ping shovels.

Famousdavis has done his work well!

[vancitygolfer]

I didn't like them, but golf equipment is a very individual thing.

[Kiwi Player]

Keep the ZZ-Lite shafts in them. That's the best shaft for those clubs and it provides a perfect ball flight. I just bought a set of Ping Eye 2 blue dots (square groove model) off Ebay for $124 and they are in better condition than any previous Ping Eye 2 set I've bought before. I just bought some Ping NTS grips and will put them on this evening.

Sooner, make sure you put on some new Ping Grips and keep the ZZ-Lite shaft. That's the whole point. Otherwise, you're really not playing Ping Eye 2 irons. Oh my sons, my rebellious sons.

Famous, I can understand guys ho'ing different equipment but I can't understand why you buy and sell so many sets of Ping Eye 2 shovels. Once you have a good set why not just hang on to them? Even if you want to experiment you know they'll always end up back in the bag?

[oldplayer]

They are great irons Sooner, a worthwhile experiment. The plusses are not square groove (they were made to comply with the R&A) and there are some differences in sole profile. I am back hitting some Maxfli A10 Tours (combo set, blades in 8-pw with rifle flighted 5.5) and really enjoying them. I will never sell the eye2's as they are a classic iron and a lot of fun to play. All you guys including FD would realise that a true ho is always experimenting, that is the point. BTW I have a new set of Mizuno MX 300 coming (TT dynalite xp stiff) which I can't wait to bag.
Keep the ZZ lites, great shaft, and have fun. HO!

[daveperkins]

Here I am suddenly acquiring and bending and testing all these forged blades and my erstwhile opponent in the GR Southwest Match Play Championship series is bagging cast sheite from before time began. ah, it's only right.

This is amusing. In our first contest, I had Adams paddles with all sorts of perimeter weighting and plastic bits, and he had Mizuno GFF blades.

Now, the student has become the master, O B one.

[SoonerBS]

They are great irons Sooner, a worthwhile experiment. The plusses are not square groove (they were made to comply with the R&A) and there are some differences in sole profile. I am back hitting some Maxfli A10 Tours (combo set, blades in 8-pw with rifle flighted 5.5) and really enjoying them. I will never sell the eye2's as they are a classic iron and a lot of fun to play. All you guys including FD would realise that a true ho is always experimenting, that is the point. BTW I have a new set of Mizuno MX 300 coming (TT dynalite xp stiff) which I can't wait to bag.
Keep the ZZ lites, great shaft, and have fun. HO!

OP, I am definitely a club Ho. I guess I don't have square grooves then because I bought the Eye 2 + irons. I don't need square grooves anyway. I am going to take the shafts out though and spine align them and slap some new grips on though. I don't know the exact lengths as to whether they are extended or not. The Green dots are 2* upright, but I need them to be 1" longer as well to meet my specs. So, I might have to extend them anyway.

OP, I was looking at the MX 300s before I settled on the PINGs. This set was cheap compared to what the MX 300 sets are selling for these days. Of course, give me time and I'll have a bag of them eventually . . . . . .

[SoonerBS]

Here I am suddenly acquiring and bending and testing all these forged blades and my erstwhile opponent in the GR Southwest Match Play Championship series is bagging cast sheite from before time began. ah, it's only right.

This is amusing. In our first contest, I had Adams paddles with all sorts of perimeter weighting and plastic bits, and he had Mizuno GFF blades.

Now, the student has become the master, O B one.

Big Dave, just because I am experimenting with them doesn't mean I will be bagging them whenever we meet up again. They'll have to knock 4 strokes off my game before I consider playing them in competition.

[Not a hacker]

I'm experimenting, so don't jump to conclusions (although this is GR and you are certainly entitled to jump to conclusions and start flaming immediately).

I have just purchased some PING Eye 2 + Irons, green dot, 4-PW with stiff ZZ Lite shafts for $129.00 on Ebay. They are in good shape according to pictures and they were too cheap to pass up for experimentation.

My question is this, should I try to use these with the current shafts already in them, or should I purchase some Nippon 100 (Titleist pullouts 4-PW) shafts to put in them for an extra $70.00. I am planning on taking the shafts out as soon as I receive them and spine align them and put new grips on them before I play them anyway.

What would you do?

Don't ever flame me again for playing shovels. At least mine don't have the massive offset of your new POS paddles, and mine are also in a real golfer configuration of 3-pw, unlike the sod laying chopper 4-pw set you have. You have just sold your soul Sooner, your man card has been revoked.

[FreakOfNature]

I'm experimenting, so don't jump to conclusions (although this is GR and you are certainly entitled to jump to conclusions and start flaming immediately).

I have just purchased some PING Eye 2 + Irons, green dot, 4-PW with stiff ZZ Lite shafts for $129.00 on Ebay. They are in good shape according to pictures and they were too cheap to pass up for experimentation.

My question is this, should I try to use these with the current shafts already in them, or should I purchase some Nippon 100 (Titleist pullouts 4-PW) shafts to put in them for an extra $70.00. I am planning on taking the shafts out as soon as I receive them and spine align them and put new grips on them before I play them anyway.

What would you do?

Use extra lube and expect your butthole to be pretty sore tomorrow.

Don't ever flame me again for playing shovels. At least mine don't have the massive offset of your new POS paddles, and mine are also in a real golfer configuration of 3-pw, unlike the sod laying chopper 4-pw set you have. You have just sold your soul Sooner, your man card has been revoked.

I'm voting in favor of this motion.



FON

[SoonerBS]

Don't ever flame me again for playing shovels. At least mine don't have the massive offset of your new POS paddles, and mine are also in a real golfer configuration of 3-pw, unlike the sod laying chopper 4-pw set you have. You have just sold your soul Sooner, your man card has been revoked.

I deserved that. However, as it stands now, I have three sets of GFF bliss right now and I rarely play the same set more than 3 times in a row. So, I don't see myself getting settled into playing these PING shovels all the time and never playing my Mizunos. This is just an experiment, NaH, I like to try out the equipment that others are talking about so much in their threads so I can respond with experience.

[Not a hacker]

I deserved that. However, as it stands now, I have three sets of GFF bliss right now and I rarely play the same set more than 3 times in a row. So, I don't see myself getting settled into playing these PING shovels all the time and never playing my Mizunos. This is just an experiment, NaH, I like to try out the equipment that others are talking about so much in their threads so I can respond with experience.

You certainly did.

On the experiment thing, it is my opinion that in the not too distant future we will read a vitriolic post about the inferior POS Ping shovels. Despite what FD thinks, I have hit Pings and I have hit GFF and there is no comparison. GFF are butter, Ping are more like overcooked steaks (from my memory of when used to eat them). I think you have fallen prey to a cunning and sustained hype campaign from FD, Pings just aren't tha great.

[jetdriver]

Being a club ho, I say the pings are tempting like that hot chick next door bending over washing her car that you want to bang not because she is hot but because she bends over. Once you bang her a few times you soon realize that its over rated. I rarely sell anything I try and somewhat like. I find myself going back to the Eye 2's every once in a while and they almost convince me of their merit, then I become inconsistant with them and set them aside and bag my blades. I find that some other old CB clubs are just as good although they do not have the mystic aura of the Eye 2's. Some examples are the Lynx Parallax (pyramid) with steel shafts, Wilson 1200LT are simply amazing but look a bit funky. and I particularly like the very rare Mizuno MZX that are just like the Eye 2's without the offset.

[CPS]

After I had been playing with my i5's for awhile I had the chance to do an experiment with league member who was playing Titleist muscle backs (I forget what series... the one's Els used to play). We were side by side on the range and trading our irons back and forth. We both liked our irons and knew how to work them.

It amazed me how similar the ball flights were for both of us. He got very controlled and penetrating ball flight with the i5's. He even got great results with the 2-iron. I had no problem getting the muscle back blades into the air and actually got flight quite similar to my Pings. I didn't notice all that less forgiveness.

Ping is a simply a preferred feel... but you lose very little in workability, it's been proven, this myth that Ping cavities are uncontrollable simply isn't true , the i5's have less offset than the Eye 2's, but the Eye 2's have more traditional lofts. The i5's feel better on contact because of the port (like using an ultra-thin with jetdriver's neighbor... safe and still feels good).

[SoonerBS]

You certainly did.

On the experiment thing, it is my opinion that in the not too distant future we will read a vitriolic post about the inferior POS Ping shovels. Despite what FD thinks, I have hit Pings and I have hit GFF and there is no comparison. GFF are butter, Ping are more like overcooked steaks (from my memory of when used to eat them). I think you have fallen prey to a cunning and sustained hype campaign from FD, Pings just aren't tha great.

I know for a fact that this is true, NaH. I haven't bought these before trying the Eye 2s. One of my buddies I golf with bags the Eye 2s and I hit have hit a few balls with them. The thing that is alluring to me about them is just how easy they are to hit and VERY forgiving. However, there is a MAJOR difference in feel between the PINGs and the GFF. The PINGS have a very boardy feel to them, but the GFF is pure butter. I'm not going to be blowing smoke up anybody's skirt about the difference in feel because GFF wins that contest hands down.

I simply want to bag them for a couple of rounds and see how well they play on the entire course. The thing about golfing with the blades is you HAVE to be on your game all the time. Today I was on and shot my best round ever score -- a 76, 5 over par, with my 67s. But, two weeks ago, I had a horrendous week of golf and was golfing scores in the high 80s and even had a 92 one round. I'm anxious to see if there is greater consistency in bagging the Eye 2s with the forgiveness factor involved. I will not be selling my Mizuno sets. Like I've said before, I still play all my sets and will even if the POS shovels work out.

[daveperkins]

After I had been playing with my i5's for awhile I had the chance to do an experiment with league member who was playing Titleist muscle backs (I forget what series... the one's Els used to play). We were side by side on the range and trading our irons back and forth. We both liked our irons and knew how to work them.

It amazed me how similar the ball flights were for both of us. He got very controlled and penetrating ball flight with the i5's. He even got great results with the 2-iron. I had no problem getting the muscle back blades into the air and actually got flight quite similar to my Pings. I didn't notice all that less forgiveness.

Ping is a simply a preferred feel... but you lose very little in workability, it's been proven, this myth that Ping cavities are uncontrollable simply isn't true , the i5's have less offset than the Eye 2's, but the Eye 2's have more traditional lofts. The i5's feel better on contact because of the port (like using an ultra-thin with jetdriver's neighbor... safe and still feels good).

I hit some of my most epic bends, to the left and right, with my old Zings. The properly executed hook or slice or draw or fade swing works the same on any properly fitted club. If you get a center strike and you've got the path right and the angle of the face right, it will do whatever you want it to, Ping or Tour Blade or whatever. It's just for the feel players the little blades just plain feel better. But the Ping gets the ball where you want it more often if you're not a great player. Trade offs.

[Kiwi Player]

I know for a fact that this is true, NaH. I haven't bought these before trying the Eye 2s. One of my buddies I golf with bags the Eye 2s and I hit have hit a few balls with them. The thing that is alluring to me about them is just how easy they are to hit and VERY forgiving. However, there is a MAJOR difference in feel between the PINGs and the GFF. The PINGS have a very boardy feel to them, but the GFF is pure butter. I'm not going to be blowing smoke up anybody's skirt about the difference in feel because GFF wins that contest hands down.

I simply want to bag them for a couple of rounds and see how well they play on the entire course. The thing about golfing with the blades is you HAVE to be on your game all the time. Today I was on and shot my best round ever score -- a 76, 5 over par, with my 67s. But, two weeks ago, I had a horrendous week of golf and was golfing scores in the high 80s and even had a 92 one round. I'm anxious to see if there is greater consistency in bagging the Eye 2s with the forgiveness factor involved. I will not be selling my Mizuno sets. Like I've said before, I still play all my sets and will even if the POS shovels work out.

If you want more forgiveness occasionally but still want GFF your MP-52's or even something like the MX-300's might be worth a try.

I'm curious to hear how you like the Pings. Oldplayer loved his experiment with them.

[SoonerBS]

Irons came in today, but I haven't played them yet. Boy, . . . . . . are these things butt-ugly!!

[poe4soul]

Irons came in today, but I haven't played them yet. Boy, . . . . . . are these things butt-ugly!!

Like I said I get a little vomit in my mouth when I look at them.

Any wood you get from looking at the 67's you can kill by imagining the eye 2.

[jetdriver]

What do you guys find so ugly about the Eye 2's? I admit that they have a lot of offset and the face is far away from the hossel though. I guess that is what you mean?

[poe4soul]

What do you guys find so ugly about the Eye 2's? I admit that they have a lot of offset and the face is far away from the hossel though. I guess that is what you mean?

and they are miss shaped, the connection to the shaft is very weird and not pleasing to look at. Other than that they are great looking.

[daveperkins]

Irons came in today, but I haven't played them yet. Boy, . . . . . . are these things butt-ugly!!

I remember my Zings. They look like those modern art sculptures in front of office buildings. The Eye 2 was more visually sensible, but it's not hard to look better than Zings.

[SoonerBS]

What do you guys find so ugly about the Eye 2's? I admit that they have a lot of offset and the face is far away from the hossel though. I guess that is what you mean?

They look like a damn shovel . . . . . if they do not drop 4 strokes from my game, they are going back on Ebay.

[FreakOfNature]

They look like a damn shovel . . . . . if they do not drop 4 strokes from my game, they are going back on Ebay.

If you've actually touched them at this point - I'd recommend out of concern for your immediate health (both mental and physical) that you go get vaccinated.

You never know what you're gonna catch from a punani, or anything that may have touched one. Those old sticks have probably been around the block a few times. Better safe than sorry.

On the bright side - if you catch a terminal illness you're well equipped to dig your own grave.



FON

[Kiwi Player]

and they are miss shaped, the connection to the shaft is very weird and not pleasing to look at. Other than that they are great looking.

Don't forget the beautiful and distinctive look of the toe area as well as the attractive finish.

[oldplayer]

Irons came in today, but I haven't played them yet. Boy, . . . . . . are these things butt-ugly!!

They start to look a lot better when they start producing great shots. They certainly do look and set up differently, but their distinctive look grows on you.

[Not a hacker]

I hit some of my most epic bends, to the left and right, with my old Zings. The properly executed hook or slice or draw or fade swing works the same on any properly fitted club. If you get a center strike and you've got the path right and the angle of the face right, it will do whatever you want it to, Ping or Tour Blade or whatever. It's just for the feel players the little blades just plain feel better. But the Ping gets the ball where you want it more often if you're not a great player. Trade offs.

I tend to agree with this to a point, but I do think offset does restrict workability to an extent. Especially when you're talking the kind of offset of the Eye 2s. I think the no offset and smaller head of blades dos allow more precise workability in the hands of those with the ability to use it, but having said that I would say that anyone not playing the PGA Tour probably wouldn't notice much difference.

[famousdavis]

The Ping Eye 2 square groove is the best looking iron out there. The tumbled finish coupled with the colored dot in the cavity, accompanied by the blue shaft band and the little "pingman" in the middle are what makes it such a site to behold. Of course, what makes these clubs impossible to put down is if you have the original pingman grips on them. These are very difficult to find and usually go upwards of $100 for 8 grips.

Sooner, you are crazy if you mess with the shafts and you are wrong that they are ugly. It's not a matter of opinion. They are the best looking iron out there. Dave, quit comparing these to the Zing. The Zing was an abomination of a club and if the company had been public then Karsten Solheim would have been given a golden parachute (or even more appropriate, a golden shower).

The Ping Eye 2 w/ ZZ-Lite shafts provide a crisp feel that no other club has been able to replicate. It is a feeling that is superior to that of a forged iron.

On another note I did try the Mizuno MP-67 iron in the golf simulator and it felt pretty good. I may have to give these a try but I'll hold on to the Ping Eye 2's.

[SoonerBS]

Well, after one round I have to say that I am not overly impressed. I hit some good shots, but I hit some poor ones, too. I have trouble figuring out the offset and I also found out that I have to hit one less club because the cast iron is longer.

They are still butt-ugly and they have no feel to them after playing GFF for the last two years.

BUT, I am not going to be too judgmental after only one round. I'll give them about 5 rounds before deciding whether to keep them or put them back on Ebay.

[SoonerBS]

Well, after one round I have to say that I am not overly impressed. I hit some good shots, but I hit some poor ones, too. I have trouble figuring out the offset and I also found out that I have to hit one less club because the cast iron is longer.

They are still butt-ugly and they have no feel to them after playing GFF for the last two years.

They are definitely lighter than what I am use to with the Mizunos. I don't necessarily deem that as a good thing. If I couldn't generate anymore club speed than what Larry does, that might be alright.

BUT, I am not going to be too judgmental after only one round. I'll give them about 5 rounds before deciding whether to keep them or put them back on Ebay.

[Not a hacker]

The Ping Eye 2 square groove is the best looking iron out there. The tumbled finish coupled with the colored dot in the cavity, accompanied by the blue shaft band and the little "pingman" in the middle are what makes it such a site to behold. Of course, what makes these clubs impossible to put down is if you have the original pingman grips on them. These are very difficult to find and usually go upwards of $100 for 8 grips.

Sooner, you are crazy if you mess with the shafts and you are wrong that they are ugly. It's not a matter of opinion. They are the best looking iron out there. Dave, quit comparing these to the Zing. The Zing was an abomination of a club and if the company had been public then Karsten Solheim would have been given a golden parachute (or even more appropriate, a golden shower).

The Ping Eye 2 w/ ZZ-Lite shafts provide a crisp feel that no other club has been able to replicate. It is a feeling that is superior to that of a forged iron.

On another note I did try the Mizuno MP-67 iron in the golf simulator and it felt pretty good. I may have to give these a try but I'll hold on to the Ping Eye 2's.

I think you may well be right about that. Mainly because any clubs that achieve replicating the feel of Pings are considered failures and never make the market.

[SoonerBS]

The experiment is over. I played the PING Eye 2 irons for 3 weeks solid. They never took 4 strokes off my game. They are butt-ugly. And, they feel like hitting a two by four as far as feel goes.

I busted out my MP-67s today and had feel back in my game. You just can't beat Mizuno GFF for feel and playability. I also do not notice any more difference in forgiveness between the Eye 2s and the MP-67s.

I will likely keep the Eye 2s around to break out and play from time to time to remind me how lucky I have it to be able to play Mizunos.

[Kiwi Player]

The experiment is over. I played the PING Eye 2 irons for 3 weeks solid. They never took 4 strokes off my game. They are butt-ugly. And, they feel like hitting a two by four as far as feel goes.

I busted out my MP-67s today and had feel back in my game. You just can't beat Mizuno GFF for feel and playability. I also do not notice any more difference in forgiveness between the Eye 2s and the MP-67s.

I will likely keep the Eye 2s around to break out and play from time to time to remind me how lucky I have it to be able to play Mizunos.

All hail GFF blades and the return of SoonerBS to his senses.

[famousdavis]

The experiment is over. I played the PING Eye 2 irons for 3 weeks solid. They never took 4 strokes off my game. They are butt-ugly. And, they feel like hitting a two by four as far as feel goes.

I busted out my MP-67s today and had feel back in my game. You just can't beat Mizuno GFF for feel and playability. I also do not notice any more difference in forgiveness between the Eye 2s and the MP-67s.

I will likely keep the Eye 2s around to break out and play from time to time to remind me how lucky I have it to be able to play Mizunos.

This was clearly a set up from the very beginning. I don't believe you ever had any intention of giving the Eye 2's a fair shake. Plus, you got the Ping Eye 2+ model with a different shaft.

Last Friday I played 9 holes with the Titleist 735 CM irons I had purchased at golf galaxy. The felt nice but lacked in distance and were a little heavy. I switched on the back 9 to the Eye 2's and I instantly starting hitting the ball better. There is no better feeling club than the Eye 2.

Finally, I returned the 735 CM's to GG yesterday and while I was there I saw a used set of Mizuno T-Zoid True irons in near new condition for $75!! I was going to buy them but I tried them in the simulator and the distance I got out of them was horrible and they didn't feel very good.

I used the credit to buy a new Ping 4 Under bag in black/grey. I'm going to look so cool on the course with my new Ping bag and Eye 2 clubs with new grips.

[qtong]

Hmmm... I don't get it. What is up with people's obsession with old school ping irons? Ping eye 2, and i3's... Can anyone explain this to me? What makes an old school club like that better than a modern design that makes people rub themselves all over place? Even with blades, a modern forging and design should be better than old school ones.

[daveperkins]

Hmmm... I don't get it. What is up with people's obsession with old school ping irons? Ping eye 2, and i3's... Can anyone explain this to me? What makes an old school club like that better than a modern design that makes people rub themselves all over place? Even with blades, a modern forging and design should be better than old school ones.

the modern castings are doubtless more consistent than the old ones, although if you happen to get some good castings that don't have inconsistencies, bubbles, etc, then you are going to get the same feel.. but casting techniques are better now.

Forging, unless its very expensive, is really not any better. The right steel, stamped in a forge and then trimmed and ground and chromed, is pretty much the same for the past 50 years.

What is better is computer-aided head design. Irons are now more well calculated in terms of trajectory and sweet spot and such, and more consistent from long to short clubs, than older forgings which were essentially just sketched and blueprinted and weighed and, well, guessed. COmputer is better.

So forged blades are better in their 3D design, but castings are better now than before in their alloys and their metal consistency. And the vibration-damping rubber butt-plugs, of course, also aided by computer design.

But forging is forging. The better consistency and quality is achieved by more expensive and time consuming techniques, not by modernity. It is the head design and engineering that's better.

[daveperkins]

This was clearly a set up from the very beginning. I don't believe you ever had any intention of giving the Eye 2's a fair shake. Plus, you got the Ping Eye 2+ model with a different shaft.

Last Friday I played 9 holes with the Titleist 735 CM irons I had purchased at golf galaxy. The felt nice but lacked in distance and were a little heavy. I switched on the back 9 to the Eye 2's and I instantly starting hitting the ball better. There is no better feeling club than the Eye 2.

Finally, I returned the 735 CM's to GG yesterday and while I was there I saw a used set of Mizuno T-Zoid True irons in near new condition for $75!! I was going to buy them but I tried them in the simulator and the distance I got out of them was horrible and they didn't feel very good.

I used the credit to buy a new Ping 4 Under bag in black/grey. I'm going to look so cool on the course with my new Ping bag and Eye 2 clubs with new grips.

I took your callaway driver to the range tonight.. hit that thing VERY well.. seems to be one of the rare drivers, an S shaft with only 9 degrees loft but it is not wild for me (usually need an X flex for directional control) and it stays in the air a long time. I like it. Might have to send you a check instead of the club. :-)

[SoonerBS]

I've said this before, and I'll likely have to say it again, guys who say that a big old cavity-backed shovel is the "best feeling" iron they have ever played, have NOT ever played a blade for any committed amount of time. I like playing my MP-52s from time to time, too, but even those cavity-backed player's irons do not have the feel of the 67s and 33s.

What blades will teach you about your swing, you cannot find or read about in a Pingman "pressure point" thread.

[daveperkins]

The experiment is over. I played the PING Eye 2 irons for 3 weeks solid. They never took 4 strokes off my game. They are butt-ugly. And, they feel like hitting a two by four as far as feel goes.

I busted out my MP-67s today and had feel back in my game. You just can't beat Mizuno GFF for feel and playability. I also do not notice any more difference in forgiveness between the Eye 2s and the MP-67s.

I will likely keep the Eye 2s around to break out and play from time to time to remind me how lucky I have it to be able to play Mizunos.

so let it be written, so let it be done. The game is on. GFF Mizzies vs. Old School FG17s... but I do get one exception, the MP14 one iron I'll be baggin' instead of a gaybrid. It's 1990's, old enough to stay in the spirit of the thing. But the FG17s are legitimate 1980 irons. I didn't play them against FD but they're back in the sack for Sooner vs Big Dave II--- Hackfest at Hackerville. now only two or three weeks away. Weather improving drastically, Sooner.. Monday here our range is 61* morning, 81* afternoon.. I'm liking fall in the great southwest. :-)

[SoonerBS]

so let it be written, so let it be done. The game is on. GFF Mizzies vs. Old School FG17s... but I do get one exception, the MP14 one iron I'll be baggin' instead of a gaybrid. It's 1990's, old enough to stay in the spirit of the thing. But the FG17s are legitimate 1980 irons. I didn't play them against FD but they're back in the sack for Sooner vs Big Dave II--- Hackfest at Hackerville. now only two or three weeks away. Weather improving drastically, Sooner.. Monday here our range is 61* morning, 81* afternoon.. I'm liking fall in the great southwest. :-)

Suppose to be in the 50s for lows and 70s for highs here all next week. I am SO ready for that kind of weather . . . . .

[Kiwi Player]

Hmmm... I don't get it. What is up with people's obsession with old school ping irons? Ping eye 2, and i3's... Can anyone explain this to me? What makes an old school club like that better than a modern design that makes people rub themselves all over place? Even with blades, a modern forging and design should be better than old school ones.

What makes people interested in doing up old vintage cars, bringing them back to their former glory, making them roadworthy again? Nobody is suggesting those old classics perform better than their modern equivalent but there is a certain sense of satisfaction and nostalgia driving an old classic.

Same with playing old classic golf clubs. Sometimes this game is about more than just scoring.

[Not a hacker]

The experiment is over. I played the PING Eye 2 irons for 3 weeks solid. They never took 4 strokes off my game. They are butt-ugly. And, they feel like hitting a two by four as far as feel goes.

I busted out my MP-67s today and had feel back in my game. You just can't beat Mizuno GFF for feel and playability. I also do not notice any more difference in forgiveness between the Eye 2s and the MP-67s.

I will likely keep the Eye 2s around to break out and play from time to time to remind me how lucky I have it to be able to play Mizunos.

The only real surprise is that you could tolerate them for 3 whole weeks. You have a stronger stomach than me.

[oldplayer]

Hmmm... I don't get it. What is up with people's obsession with old school ping irons? Ping eye 2, and i3's... Can anyone explain this to me? What makes an old school club like that better than a modern design that makes people rub themselves all over place? Even with blades, a modern forging and design should be better than old school ones.

Ping eye 2's are the highest selling iron of all time. All those millions of golfers can't be wrong. I have played ping eye 2 irons and they perform very well. They stand up very well in this modern era. The quality of manufacture is very high; something that cannot always be said of modern offerings.
They were a breakthrough design and in terms of forgivness and playability are still competative all these years later. Sure they look a little different, but they work.
They are a classic that deserve their place in history and also deserve a place in a good players bag in front of many so called good irons of recent times.

[Kiwi Player]

The only real surprise is that you could tolerate them for 3 whole weeks. You have a stronger stomach than me.

You play those ugly TPS 6.0 shovels. I'd say you must have a cast iron stomach.

[Not a hacker]

You play those ugly TPS 6.0 shovels. I'd say you must have a cast iron stomach.

I hope we get to have a GR match one day so you can have a hit with them. You will be spending every minute on ebay waiting for a set to come up if you ever get to hit one.

Maybe if we have a match you ca bring your R7 paddles and have a contest to see who can out gross the other

[Kiwi Player]

I hope we get to have a GR match one day so you can have a hit with them. You will be spending every minute on ebay waiting for a set to come up if you ever get to hit one.

Maybe if we have a match you ca bring your R7 paddles and have a contest to see who can out gross the other

You are almost as big a proponent of those Powerbilts as Famousdavis is of the Ping Eye 2's. The only difference is the Pings are an acknowledged classic endorsed by milllions whereas you are more of a lone voice on the Powerbilts.

LOL - as for a GR match it would have to be the Mizzies!

[famousdavis]

Hmmm... I don't get it. What is up with people's obsession with old school ping irons? Ping eye 2, and i3's... Can anyone explain this to me? What makes an old school club like that better than a modern design that makes people rub themselves all over place? Even with blades, a modern forging and design should be better than old school ones.

The fact that they are old or nostalgic has nothing to do with why I play my Ping Eye 2 Blue Dot irons with ZZ lite shafts. Square groove. It has to do with the fact that I've tried just about every iron out there and, for me, nothing comes close to the accuracy and shot making of the Eye 2. I love the feel, the weight and the look.

I've tried many irons that are forged and most of them feel great on the range. The Mizuno MP-67 and Titleist ZM are the best feeling clubs I've ever tried...on the range. Why on the range? Because I hit it flush all the time on the range.

As good as those two forgings feel, I prefer the crisp feel of the Ping Eye 2. I have never felt anything like it in any other club.

One club that I'm seriously looking at is the Taylormade Tour Burner iron. I like the look and they feel great. I'm sure I would pick up some distance as well.

[FreakOfNature]

The fact that they are old or nostalgic has nothing to do with why I play my Ping Eye 2 Blue Dot irons with ZZ lite shafts. Square groove. It has to do with the fact that I've tried just about every iron out there and, for me, nothing comes close to the accuracy and shot making of the Eye 2. I love the feel, the weight and the look.

I've tried many irons that are forged and most of them feel great on the range. The Mizuno MP-67 and Titleist ZM are the best feeling clubs I've ever tried...on the range. Why on the range? Because I hit it flush all the time on the range.

As good as those two forgings feel, I prefer the crisp feel of the Ping Eye 2. I have never felt anything like it in any other club.

One club that I'm seriously looking at is the Taylormade Tour Burner iron. I like the look and they feel great. I'm sure I would pick up some distance as well.

Yet another rule bending cheater reveals his true colors. Loopholer. Exploiter.

Some advice before you settle on the Tour Burners - try the rac MB TP's! Easier to hit than you'd think and they look SO SWEET at address. I guarantee you'll love them. Just do yourself a favor and make sure you try them before you make up your mind... at least know what you're missing.



FON

[Kiwi Player]

Yet another rule bending cheater reveals his true colors. Loopholer. Exploiter.

Some advice before you settle on the Tour Burners - try the rac MB TP's! Easier to hit than you'd think and they look SO SWEET at address. I guarantee you'll love them. Just do yourself a favor and make sure you try them before you make up your mind... at least know what you're missing.



FON

Are you kidding?

Famousdavis is our new resident club ho picking up where bjdrivers left off. Most probably he's not only tried them already but has also owned a set or two and reviewed them in the GR Reviews section.

Get with the program FON!

[Not a hacker]

You are almost as big a proponent of those Powerbilts as Famousdavis is of the Ping Eye 2's. The only difference is the Pings are an acknowledged classic endorsed by milllions whereas you are more of a lone voice on the Powerbilts.

LOL - as for a GR match it would have to be the Mizzies!

That sounds a lot the rantings of a closet shovel lover to me.

[Kiwi Player]

That sounds a lot the rantings of a closet shovel lover to me.

I NEVER said the masses had good taste. How many albums did Michael Jackson sell?

[Kiwi Player]

Ping eye 2's are the highest selling iron of all time. All those millions of golfers can't be wrong. I have played ping eye 2 irons and they perform very well. They stand up very well in this modern era. The quality of manufacture is very high; something that cannot always be said of modern offerings.
They were a breakthrough design and in terms of forgivness and playability are still competative all these years later. Sure they look a little different, but they work.
They are a classic that deserve their place in history and also deserve a place in a good players bag in front of many so called good irons of recent times.

I beg to differ.

As I pointed out to NAH, Michael Jackson sold a lot of albums too. Does that make his music good?

No of course not. All those fans ARE WRONG!

[famousdavis]

Yet another rule bending cheater reveals his true colors. Loopholer. Exploiter.

Some advice before you settle on the Tour Burners - try the rac MB TP's! Easier to hit than you'd think and they look SO SWEET at address. I guarantee you'll love them. Just do yourself a favor and make sure you try them before you make up your mind... at least know what you're missing.



FON

Rule bending cheater? Please explain that one to me.

[famousdavis]

I beg to differ.

As I pointed out to NAH, Michael Jackson sold a lot of albums too. Does that make his music good?

No of course not. All those fans ARE WRONG!

Michael Jackson's music was very good. I bet you can't listen to Billie Jean without shaking your foot to the beat.

What's the price on the Mizuno MX-300's these days. I'm thinking of trying those as well as the Taylormade Tour Burners. the Taylor RAC MB's, I saw them at Golf Mart the other day and didn't like the way they looked. The set I wish I had bought in Houston was the Titleist 690 MB's for $125. That would have been a steal.

[daveperkins]

Rule bending cheater? Please explain that one to me.

I think he's talking about the square grooves. Which is silly, because those clubs are specifically exempted in the rules. Playing them IS within the rules, not bending them.

anyways. Scott McCarron ended up apologizing to Moobs. Maybe FON will do that for you. :-)

[famousdavis]

I think he's talking about the square grooves. Which is silly, because those clubs are specifically exempted in the rules. Playing them IS within the rules, not bending them.

anyways. Scott McCarron ended up apologizing to Moobs. Maybe FON will do that for you. :-)

Ah, light dawns on marble head. I get it now. So, how are you hitting the Wilson Staff FG-17's? I need to take a look at Ebay again to see what the current price is on the Wilson FG59 irons. I'm also seriously considering the Taylormade Tour Burner irons.

I liked your Adams Pro CB irons quite a bit but I just can't see myself playing with Adams clubs.

[daveperkins]

Ah, light dawns on marble head. I get it now. So, how are you hitting the Wilson Staff FG-17's? I need to take a look at Ebay again to see what the current price is on the Wilson FG59 irons. I'm also seriously considering the Taylormade Tour Burner irons.

I liked your Adams Pro CB irons quite a bit but I just can't see myself playing with Adams clubs.

FG17s are great. For some reason the wedge is still iffy... I think I made it too long and need to choke down on it.. it's the same length as the nine iron, for some reason.. I had DG S300s put in but I did the grips myself and extended the set 1/2" but managed to get the wedge too long, so it feels heavy...

but from nine on up to three, they are very easy to hit straight and long.. it's a matter of swinging even more gently than I usually do, to make sure my head stays right above the ball and I make good contact.

I had them bent stronger, so the five iron is now about 28 and the wedge is about 48... still substantially weaker than the Adams but the longer shafts help equalize, and in the end I hit them about the same distance. I played a round a few weeks ago with them, and took 4 iron from 195 to a back corner pin, stuck it in there to ten feet and rolled it in.. and on the range, these FG17s go straighter, on average, than the Adams, probably because I'm swinging them easier.

Sooner is going to have a battle on his hands. :-))

I saw an ad on a golf store website for a new Staff tour blade, 2010 model, looks like FG59 but is advertised as being slightly larger clubhead. FG59 is smaller, I think, even than FG17.. couldn't find anything more on that yet, so it's not released yet, but when it is, I'm ON it.

I have always liked the Burners I've hit.. for me, the Burner TP would be the iron I'd end up with.. but for a Ping guy the regular one probably looks right. I just prefer less offset and smaller head, overall.

[famousdavis]

FG17s are great. For some reason the wedge is still iffy... I think I made it too long and need to choke down on it.. it's the same length as the nine iron, for some reason.. I had DG S300s put in but I did the grips myself and extended the set 1/2" but managed to get the wedge too long, so it feels heavy...

but from nine on up to three, they are very easy to hit straight and long.. it's a matter of swinging even more gently than I usually do, to make sure my head stays right above the ball and I make good contact.

I had them bent stronger, so the five iron is now about 28 and the wedge is about 48... still substantially weaker than the Adams but the longer shafts help equalize, and in the end I hit them about the same distance. I played a round a few weeks ago with them, and took 4 iron from 195 to a back corner pin, stuck it in there to ten feet and rolled it in.. and on the range, these FG17s go straighter, on average, than the Adams, probably because I'm swinging them easier.

Sooner is going to have a battle on his hands. :-))

I saw an ad on a golf store website for a new Staff tour blade, 2010 model, looks like FG59 but is advertised as being slightly larger clubhead. FG59 is smaller, I think, even than FG17.. couldn't find anything more on that yet, so it's not released yet, but when it is, I'm ON it.

I have always liked the Burners I've hit.. for me, the Burner TP would be the iron I'd end up with.. but for a Ping guy the regular one probably looks right. I just prefer less offset and smaller head, overall.

I wasn't talking about the Burner, rather I was referring to the Tour Burner (see pic next to a G10 iron for comparison). It has less offset than the Burner and a smaller head. Actually, the Burner itself really doesn't have that much offset. I borrowed a 5 iron from a guy I was playing with on one hole and hit it quite well. I haven't seen a Burner TP, but I have seen the R9 TP. Are you sure of what you speaketh?

[Mward2002]

Michael Jackson's music was very good. I bet you can't listen to Billie Jean without shaking your foot to the beat.

What's the price on the Mizuno MX-300's these days. I'm thinking of trying those as well as the Taylormade Tour Burners. the Taylor RAC MB's, I saw them at Golf Mart the other day and didn't like the way they looked. The set I wish I had bought in Houston was the Titleist 690 MB's for $125. That would have been a steal.

Not as much as I wish you or Dave had. I was hoping one of you would have picked up on my subtle hint that I was willing to buy them from either one of you if you picked them up

[daveperkins]

I wasn't talking about the Burner, rather I was referring to the Tour Burner (see pic next to a G10 iron for comparison). It has less offset than the Burner and a smaller head. Actually, the Burner itself really doesn't have that much offset. I borrowed a 5 iron from a guy I was playing with on one hole and hit it quite well. I haven't seen a Burner TP, but I have seen the R9 TP. Are you sure of what you speaketh?

My lack of familiarity w tm has made a fool of me.... It ia the tour burner, of course, not the "burner tp" ... I was thinking of the azz burner and the butt burner tp... They're fabricated at a maquiladora in Juarez...

[Kiwi Player]

I wasn't talking about the Burner, rather I was referring to the Tour Burner (see pic next to a G10 iron for comparison). It has less offset than the Burner and a smaller head. Actually, the Burner itself really doesn't have that much offset. I borrowed a 5 iron from a guy I was playing with on one hole and hit it quite well. I haven't seen a Burner TP, but I have seen the R9 TP. Are you sure of what you speaketh?

I think by Burner TP Dave really means the Tour Burner. Or he is getting completely mixed up with the Tour Preferred model.

For a Ping shovel guy like yourself surely the Burner SuperLaunch would be the best option.

[famousdavis]

I think by Burner TP Dave really means the Tour Burner. Or he is getting completely mixed up with the Tour Preferred model.

For a Ping shovel guy like yourself surely the Burner SuperLaunch would be the best option.

Wow Kiwi, you're getting a bit caustic these days. Anyway, I went to Golf Mart at lunch and tried the TM Tour Burner as well as a used set of Ping i10's with ZZ-65 shafts and then a set of Cobra CB Carbon forged. I tried the 7 iron in each model. The Ping i10 felt the best and the store is having 20% off all used clubs . The Ping i10 look brand new, like they were only hit indoors so with 20% off the cost would be around $310. The cobras sure look good though. They were only $225 and in near new shape as well.

One thing about the i10 is that the head is pretty small with very little offset. Less offset than most modern forged blades .

[SoonerBS]

Wow Kiwi, you're getting a bit caustic these days. Anyway, I went to Golf Mart at lunch and tried the TM Tour Burner as well as a used set of Ping i10's with ZZ-65 shafts and then a set of Cobra CB Carbon forged. I tried the 7 iron in each model. The Ping i10 felt the best and the store is having 20% off all used clubs . The Ping i10 look brand new, like they were only hit indoors so with 20% off the cost would be around $310. The cobras sure look good though. They were only $225 and in near new shape as well.

One thing about the i10 is that the head is pretty small with very little offset. Less offset than most modern forged blades .

I've tried the i10s. I liked the features you just mentioned, BUT they still, like all PINGS, have NO feel to them.

[famousdavis]

I've tried the i10s. I liked the features you just mentioned, BUT they still, like all PINGS, have NO feel to them.

I thought they felt better than forged.

[Kiwi Player]

Wow Kiwi, you're getting a bit caustic these days. Anyway, I went to Golf Mart at lunch and tried the TM Tour Burner as well as a used set of Ping i10's with ZZ-65 shafts and then a set of Cobra CB Carbon forged. I tried the 7 iron in each model. The Ping i10 felt the best and the store is having 20% off all used clubs . The Ping i10 look brand new, like they were only hit indoors so with 20% off the cost would be around $310. The cobras sure look good though. They were only $225 and in near new shape as well.

One thing about the i10 is that the head is pretty small with very little offset. Less offset than most modern forged blades .

I thought you had already tried this model and didn't like it? I have a friend who plays the Ping i10. The i3, i5 & i10 are a decent players CB no doubt but I was never interested because the look and the finish put me off.

To be honest thought the only time I have played Ping shovels was when I hired a set of Ping G5's and played a round whilst on vacation. G5 Driver, 3 wood, 19* hybrid and 3-SW. The driver, fairway wood and hybrid were pretty similar to the Cleveland Launchers that I play. The G5 irons were monstrous oversized shovels. They work Ok on full shots but are so hard they have absolutely no feel whatsoever on shots around the green. I guess you could get used to them but they weren't my cup of tea. Back then I was playing the TM R7 TP and it felt like a soft Japanese forging compared to the Pings.

I paid a premium to hire those Ping clubs whereas I could have paid half the money to play - wait for it - a full set of Powerbilts! I'm not sure about the driver and fairway woods but I'm positive the Powerbilt irons would have felt much better than those Ping shovels. I'm sure NAH will agree with that last comment!

[Not a hacker]

FD, You are starting to worry me with your levels of club whoring. You need to go to rehab.

Kiwi, If the Powerbilts you speak of were the TPS 6.0s I guarantee thay would have felt better than the Pings, and the POS R7 paddles you were using at the time. I remember going to a TM demo day once to check their stuff out and I hit the R7TP 7iron next to my 7 iron (MX 20) and I must say I couldn't believe the tinnyness and harsh feel of the R7s. I know it was unfair to compare them head ot head with the GFF, but even so they should have felt a lot nicer than they did. It was a reg shaft too so they had o excuse. The R7 looked horrible at address too, just an all round awful club IMO, especially head ot head with GFF, which are butter.

[oldplayer]

Michael Jackson's music was very good. I bet you can't listen to Billie Jean without shaking your foot to the beat.

What's the price on the Mizuno MX-300's these days. I'm thinking of trying those as well as the Taylormade Tour Burners. the Taylor RAC MB's, I saw them at Golf Mart the other day and didn't like the way they looked. The set I wish I had bought in Houston was the Titleist 690 MB's for $125. That would have been a steal.

Between $400- $500 new on ebay. Some sets are 4-gw, most are 4-pw.
They will probably go lower now the new line has been released. I am very happy with my set.

[Kiwi Player]

FD, You are starting to worry me with your levels of club whoring. You need to go to rehab.

Kiwi, If the Powerbilts you speak of were the TPS 6.0s I guarantee thay would have felt better than the Pings, and the POS R7 paddles you were using at the time. I remember going to a TM demo day once to check their stuff out and I hit the R7TP 7iron next to my 7 iron (MX 20) and I must say I couldn't believe the tinnyness and harsh feel of the R7s. I know it was unfair to compare them head ot head with the GFF, but even so they should have felt a lot nicer than they did. It was a reg shaft too so they had o excuse. The R7 looked horrible at address too, just an all round awful club IMO, especially head ot head with GFF, which are butter.

They feel better if you hit them out of the grooves!

As for the Powerbilts, they weren't the TPS, more like Grandslam or something like that. I know they would have been nicer than the Pings. I disagree with you about the Taylormades. On that same trip a few days later I hired some Taylormade clubs. Similar setup and again the Driver, 3 wood and hybrid were pretty similar to my Clevelands. The irons were the Rac OS II, a fairly typical cast oversize shovel but they still felt like a soft forged players cavity back compared to the Ping G5's.

[Kiwi Player]

Between $400- $500 new on ebay. Some sets are 4-gw, most are 4-pw.
They will probably go lower now the new line has been released. I am very happy with my set.

$400-$500 new?

Are you talking US Ebay? That sounds cheap to me for brand new clubs?

[SoonerBS]

I thought they felt better than forged.

I'm seriously starting to doubt your sense of feel. Forged blades such as the MP-33s and the MP-67s have tremendous feel. My MP-52s do not have quite as much feel as the blades even though they are forged, BUT all three sets have miles of difference in feel over the PING Eye 2s. I feel like I have more authenticity in what I am saying because I have actually played several rounds with all sets including the PING Eye 2s. You have only hit some of said sets off the range a few times.

I think OldPlayer would certainly have some experience in what clubs provide the best feel as he, like me, actually owns these sets and plays them from time to time.

Want to give an assessment on "feel" of said sets, OP?

[oldplayer]

$400-$500 new?

Are you talking US Ebay? That sounds cheap to me for brand new clubs?

Yes, US ebay. I paid $503 for my set 4-gw new in the plastic.
A mate of mine after hitting mine bought a set last week for $410.

[Kiwi Player]

Yes, US ebay. I paid $503 for my set 4-gw new in the plastic.
A mate of mine after hitting mine bought a set last week for $410.

Yeah I've just been browsing. Even with shipping and the exchange rate it's still about half the price we pay in NZ. Peter Bills was right about NZ when he called us 100% Pure Ripoff!

I'm still feeling tempted by the MP-62's and they've come down in price with the release of the MP-63's. About $449 for 4-PW.

[oldplayer]

I'm seriously starting to doubt your sense of feel. Forged blades such as the MP-33s and the MP-67s have tremendous feel. My MP-52s do not have quite as much feel as the blades even though they are forged, BUT all three sets have miles of difference in feel over the PING Eye 2s. I feel like I have more authenticity in what I am saying because I have actually played several rounds with all sets including the PING Eye 2s. You have only hit some of said sets off the range a few times.

I think OldPlayer would certainly have some experience in what clubs provide the best feel as he, like me, actually owns these sets and plays them from time to time.

Want to give an assessment on "feel" of said sets, OP?

Feel is very subjective and more things effect feel than just wether a clubhead is forged or cast. The sound of impact has a lot to do with how a player percieves feel. Type of shaft and tip profile also plays a part. Mizunos undoubtably have a great soft feel; I believe the grain flow forging technique does indeed give them that famous butter soft feel. Most pings in my experience feel a little dead and hard but the eye 2's are better than most.
Nearly all heads when hit flush feel good; conversly nearly all heads when hit very thin feel harsh.
The softest forged clubs i have played are tourstage Z101. The clickiest forged clubs I have used are srixons. The softest cast club by far are the Maxfli A10 tour. They are nickel chrome and softer than a lot of forged heads.
Taylormade forged heads feel very good but their cast heads don't have good feel IMO.

Muscleback blades when hit well always have the best feel; it is because of the design and the where the mass of the head is positioned. In general the more weight that is moved away from the center to the perimeter of the head the more dead feeling the strike becomes. It is the price that is paid for forgivness. We are always looking then for the best compromise. And this is where Mizuno and other OEM's are going with their recent offerings to the better player. My MX 300's are a perfect example of this. This is also where eye 2's are good. Plenty of forgivness but good feel when flushed.
This may not answer your question, and I apologise for the long response; but you did ask.

[oldplayer]

Did you watch the grand final Kiwi? What a great match and wierd finish.

[Kiwi Player]

Did you watch the grand final Kiwi? What a great match and wierd finish.

No I missed it. Once Geelong were eliminated last week I kind of lost interest. I had a later tee time today and by the time I got home the match was over. Who won and what happened?

[oldplayer]

No I missed it. Once Geelong were eliminated last week I kind of lost interest. I had a later tee time today and by the time I got home the match was over. Who won and what happened?

The most shocking result imaginable. A draw!!! 100,000 stunned fans at the end of the game. The Saints and Pies will be back again next week. Image the logistical ramifications.

[Kiwi Player]

The most shocking result imaginable. A draw!!! 100,000 stunned fans at the end of the game. The Saints and Pies will be back again next week. Image the logistical ramifications.

Wow really a draw! The poor fans that have to travel, imagine the expense not to mention the price of the tickets! I have a friend that has been to the last three Grand Finals and is in Melbourne this weekend even though his team Geelong were eliminated last week. I bet he is glad it is NOT his team that are having to play again next week. It would be a very expensive quandary deciding whether to fork out the $$$ for the replay. I wonder if it will sell out or will half the fans stay away. It just seems ridiculous that there's no extra time or golden goal rule. How stupid is that!

[oldplayer]

Wow really a draw! The poor fans that have to travel, imagine the expense not to mention the price of the tickets! I have a friend that has been to the last three Grand Finals and is in Melbourne this weekend even though his team Geelong were eliminated last week. I bet he is glad it is NOT his ream that are having to play again next week. It would be a very expensive quandary deciding whether to fork out the $$$ for the replay. I wonder if it will sell out or will half the fans stay away. It just seems ridiculous that there's no extra time or golden goal rule. How stupid is that!

I think the AFL will review this replay rule after todays result. Although they have a vested interest. 100,000 fans paying between $500 and $1750 for a ticket. Talk about profitable!
It does seem crazy not to produce a result on the day. They play extra time in all other finals, just not the granny. It's just a big stuff up really; everybodys' plans out the window. although a few of my mates will be happy. They missed out getting a ticket for today, they may have better luck next week.

[Kiwi Player]

I think the AFL will review this replay rule after todays result. Although they have a vested interest. 100,000 fans paying between $500 and $1750 for a ticket. Talk about profitable!
It does seem crazy not to produce a result on the day. They play extra time in all other finals, just not the granny. It's just a big stuff up really; everybodys' plans out the window. although a few of my mates will be happy. They missed out getting a ticket for today, they may have better luck next week.

Yeah Ok for the Melbourne guys that don't have to travel. My mate flies over from NZ and meets his Dad who flies down from Brissie.

Like I said I bet they're just glad it's not their team in the final this time. They'll just go home and watch it on TV next week.

[Kiwi Player]

Michael Jackson's music was very good. I bet you can't listen to Billie Jean without shaking your foot to the beat.

What's the price on the Mizuno MX-300's these days. I'm thinking of trying those as well as the Taylormade Tour Burners. the Taylor RAC MB's, I saw them at Golf Mart the other day and didn't like the way they looked. The set I wish I had bought in Houston was the Titleist 690 MB's for $125. That would have been a steal.

I bet I can but I can't listen to Billie Jean without wanting to put my foot through the speaker.

This is more my style. I bet you can't listen to the guitar solo from 3.18 - 3.56 without banging your head to the beat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twqu7...eature=related

[Not a hacker]

The most shocking result imaginable. A draw!!! 100,000 stunned fans at the end of the game. The Saints and Pies will be back again next week. Image the logistical ramifications.

Being a long suffering Pies fan, I watched it on the edge of my seat. We should have had it wrapped up at half time, but a couple of shanks in front of goal let St Kilda saty just close enough to think they had a chance. The two grand finals before this one were lost by superior sides who missed in front of goal, and it looked like happening again. I think the Pies will lift for next week and won't choke in front of goal two weeks in a row.

P.S. Kiwi, why didn't you tell me you were a Cats fan? You deprived me a chance to run your nose in it, which is something I don't get to do very often with your rugby team.

[Kiwi Player]

Being a long suffering Pies fan, I watched it on the edge of my seat. We should have had it wrapped up at half time, but a couple of shanks in front of goal let St Kilda saty just close enough to think they had a chance. The two grand finals before this one were lost by superior sides who missed in front of goal, and it looked like happening again. I think the Pies will lift for next week and won't choke in front of goal two weeks in a row.

P.S. Kiwi, why didn't you tell me you were a Cats fan? You deprived me a chance to run your nose in it, which is something I don't get to do very often with your rugby team.

LOL - I've discussed it often enough with OP. You'll have to learn to be more observant!

I'm only really a casual fan. I have two friends who are Geelong stalwarts. One is an Aussie living in NZ and the other is a Kiwi guy who lived in Aussie for a few years and played AFL for a couple of seasons and became a Cats supporter. So I sort of started following the Cats, especially so when I saw that their jersey is almost identical to the Auckland Rugby teams jersey. Plus OP lives in Geelong and is a Cats fan so there is even a GR connection!

TBH I'm a bit of a fair weather fan. It was horrible watching the semi last week. The Cats look sublime when their fluid kicking and passing game is working but as a rugby union fan and former player it drives me nuts when it gets scrappy with the ball on the ground. It's like watching a bunch of kindergarten kids having a lolly scramble with the ball! Very frustrating.

P.S. As a show of GR solidarity I'll cheer for the Pies next week. :thumbs up!

[Not a hacker]

LOL - I've discussed it often enough with OP. You'll have to learn to be more observant!

I'm only really a casual fan. I have two friends who are Geelong stalwarts. One is an Aussie living in NZ and the other is a Kiwi guy who lived in Aussie for a few years and played AFL for a couple of seasons and became a Cats supporter. So I sort of started following the Cats, especially so when I saw that their jersey is almost identical to the Auckland Rugby teams jersey. Plus OP lives in Geelong and is a Cats fan so there is even a GR connection!

TBH I'm a bit of a fair weather fan. It was horrible watching the semi last week. The Cats look sublime when their fluid kicking and passing game is working but as a rugby union fan and former player it drives me nuts when it gets scrappy with the ball on the ground. It's like watching a bunch of kindergarten kids having a lolly scramble with the ball! Very frustrating.

P.S. As a show of GR solidarity I'll cheer for the Pies next week. :thumbs up!

I apreciate the show of solidarity, but to fill you in, here in Oz if Collingwood isn't your first team they are your last team. If you don't love the Pies you hate them. They are in the unique position of being the most loved and most hated team in the AFL. I can assure you that every AFL fan in the country who aren't Collingwood fans were cheering for the Saints.

[famousdavis]

I'm seriously starting to doubt your sense of feel. Forged blades such as the MP-33s and the MP-67s have tremendous feel. My MP-52s do not have quite as much feel as the blades even though they are forged, BUT all three sets have miles of difference in feel over the PING Eye 2s. I feel like I have more authenticity in what I am saying because I have actually played several rounds with all sets including the PING Eye 2s. You have only hit some of said sets off the range a few times.

I think OldPlayer would certainly have some experience in what clubs provide the best feel as he, like me, actually owns these sets and plays them from time to time.

Want to give an assessment on "feel" of said sets, OP?

I guess it depends on what you mean by feel. Some people refer to feel as the ability to know how far off center you hit the ball or if you hit it flush. Others think of feel as in how good it feels (which of course is personal preference). If you are talking off center hits I would agree that a forged blade provides much greater feedback. However, if you are talking about how good a club feels then I think the Ping Eye 2 feels great.

Also, let's be honest here. How often do you hit a forged blade right in the center of the clubface? Since you don't hit it there very often, the resulting feel is probably pretty harsh. When you really mishit it, the result is a sting to the hands...especially with a forged blade. Therefore, forged blades are in general a very harsh feeling club and do not feel good at all except in the rare instance where you hit it in the absolute center of the clubface.

As for me never playing forged blades on the course? Let me retort..I played Mizuno Grads for about 6 months and I played 3 or 4 rounds with Mizuno MP-14s. In my opinion, the MP-14's do not feel soft at all and are much harsher on mishits than the Ping Eye 2.

I do want to try a set of blades so I'm thinking of the Titleist 690 mb irons I saw in Houston. Maybe they could mail them to me.

[Kiwi Player]

I guess it depends on what you mean by feel. Some people refer to feel as the ability to know how far off center you hit the ball or if you hit it flush. Others think of feel as in how good it feels (which of course is personal preference). If you are talking off center hits I would agree that a forged blade provides much greater feedback. However, if you are talking about how good a club feels then I think the Ping Eye 2 feels great.

Also, let's be honest here. How often do you hit a forged blade right in the center of the clubface? Since you don't hit it there very often, the resulting feel is probably pretty harsh. When you really mishit it, the result is a sting to the hands...especially with a forged blade. Therefore, forged blades are in general a very harsh feeling club and do not feel good at all except in the rare instance where you hit it in the absolute center of the clubface.

As for me never playing forged blades on the course? Let me retort..I played Mizuno Grads for about 6 months and I played 3 or 4 rounds with Mizuno MP-14s. In my opinion, the MP-14's do not feel soft at all and are much harsher on mishits than the Ping Eye 2.

I do want to try a set of blades so I'm thinking of the Titleist 690 mb irons I saw in Houston. Maybe they could mail them to me.

Wait a minute? The greatest ball striker the world has ever seen only rarely hits the center of the clubface? If you think forged blades are so harsh and stinging you must be thinning nearly every shot. No wonder you love Ping shovels so much.

[famousdavis]

Wait a minute? The greatest ball striker the world has ever seen only rarely hits the center of the clubface? If you think forged blades are so harsh and stinging you must be thinning nearly every shot. No wonder you love Ping shovels so much.

Man, you're like a little puppy following me wherever I go. I clearly wrote "you", not "I" or "me" indicating the person I was directing the response to. Man, either you're getting old or those forged blades are causing tremors in that thin skull of yours.

[Kiwi Player]

Man, you're like a little puppy following me wherever I go. I clearly wrote "you", not "I" or "me" indicating the person I was directing the response to. Man, either you're getting old or those forged blades are causing tremors in that thin skull of yours.

LOL - take a chill pill Famous! I'm only kidding. This is GR after all!

I've actually been considering getting some MP-62's because they look just as nice as a blade at address but with that small cavity offer extra forgiveness. That is until I saw Luke Donald wearing a visor!!! A certified GR fashion faux pas . I was looking closely and if he had a magnetic clip on ball marker on that visor I was ready to abandon GFF altogether.

The only other Mizuno Tour player I can think of is Brian Gay! Man it's slim pickings for GFF on the PGA Tour.

[famousdavis]

LOL - take a chill pill Famous! I'm only kidding. This is GR after all!

I've actually been considering getting some MP-62's because they look just as nice as a blade at address but with that small cavity offer extra forgiveness. That is until I saw Luke Donald wearing a visor!!! A certified GR fashion faux pas . I was looking closely and if he had a magnetic clip on ball marker on that visor I was ready to abandon GFF altogether.

The only other Mizuno Tour player I can think of is Brian Gay! Man it's slim pickings for GFF on the PGA Tour.

I know you're kidding but I had to give you some crap anyway. I've thought of the MP-62's but I like the 63s better.

[CPS]

You have to ask your self what is worse:

a) the total chopper hack who has the shinny Mizuno in the bag because someone told them to.

b) someone who probably can swing the GFF but wants a bit of insurance because they don't play 5 times a week.

I'll take b) over a) any day. There is NOTHING worse on the planet than a sod chopping hacker who sports $900 GFF. I'd rather play with a guy who shoots 90 with Ping shovels any day over someone who can only manage 80 at best with the GFF. Around here, we have plenty of 2-5 caps playing Ping shovels... and plenty of 10-15 caps playing GFF.

[famousdavis]

You have to ask your self what is worse:

a) the total chopper hack who has the shinny Mizuno in the bag because someone told them to.

b) someone who probably can swing the GFF but wants a bit of insurance because they don't play 5 times a week.

I'll take b) over a) any day. There is NOTHING worse on the planet than a sod chopping hacker who sports $900 GFF. I'd rather play with a guy who shoots 90 with Ping shovels any day over someone who can only manage 80 at best with the GFF. Around here, we have plenty of 2-5 caps playing Ping shovels... and plenty of 10-15 caps playing GFF.

CPS, I see that you are one of the few enlightened ones around here. I knew it right away when I saw that you play Ping i5 irons. You understand the game and realize that it's all about scoring.

The Mizuno Kool Aid is thick around here. Here's a good story. I used to play golf with a guy who was around a 3 or 4 handicap. We would play in a regular skins game with an additional game called rabbits and squirrels. Sounds gay but it was cool. Anyway, this guy played Callaway X-12 irons with the standard Memphis 10 uniflex shafts. He was one of the best iron players I have ever seen. He would get on Par 5's in two with his X-12 2-iron from 240 out. He hit shots stiff all the time.

Then, one day he got it into this head that he really shouldn't be playing Callaway X-12 irons at his level. In fact, a player of his calibre should be playing forged blades. So, he sold his Callaway X-12s and bought a brand new set of Mizuno MP-14 irons. His iron game went from phenomenal to just plain average. His long irons suffered the most. You wouldn't believe how long he stuck with the MP-14 irons just hoping that someday they would make him a better player. The truth is he got worse. I remember him telling me "With the X-12's I hit them really well but with the MP-14's I could tell when I hit them off center. They give me better feedback".

This, my friends, is nothing short of pure insanity. What's even more insane is being an 80's or 90's shooter and thinking that blades could help your game. A forged blade is significantly less forgiving than a forged cavity back and certainly less forgiving than a cast cavity back. As to why someone who is not a professional would bag blades rather than cavity backs, I can only surmise that it has nothing to do with scoring and everything to do with ego. This is the same person who drinks dark, foul tasting beer in order to look cool.

[CPS]

CPS, I see that you are one of the few enlightened ones around here. I knew it right away when I saw that you play Ping i5 irons. You understand the game and realize that it's all about scoring.

The Mizuno Kool Aid is thick around here. Here's a good story. I used to play golf with a guy who was around a 3 or 4 handicap. We would play in a regular skins game with an additional game called rabbits and squirrels. Sounds gay but it was cool. Anyway, this guy played Callaway X-12 irons with the standard Memphis 10 uniflex shafts. He was one of the best iron players I have ever seen. He would get on Par 5's in two with his X-12 2-iron from 240 out. He hit shots stiff all the time.

Then, one day he got it into this head that he really shouldn't be playing Callaway X-12 irons at his level. In fact, a player of his calibre should be playing forged blades. So, he sold his Callaway X-12s and bought a brand new set of Mizuno MP-14 irons. His iron game went from phenomenal to just plain average. His long irons suffered the most. You wouldn't believe how long he stuck with the MP-14 irons just hoping that someday they would make him a better player. The truth is he got worse. I remember him telling me "With the X-12's I hit them really well but with the MP-14's I could tell when I hit them off center. They give me better feedback".

This, my friends, is nothing short of pure insanity. What's even more insane is being an 80's or 90's shooter and thinking that blades could help your game. A forged blade is significantly less forgiving than a forged cavity back and certainly less forgiving than a cast cavity back. As to why someone who is not a professional would bag blades rather than cavity backs, I can only surmise that it has nothing to do with scoring and everything to do with ego. This is the same person who drinks dark, foul tasting beer in order to look cool.

And we are trolling over science on the other thread... now that is true GR bi-polar fashion. That's what I'm taking about... peace man... I take back everything and will enroll in a math review course at my community college.

[Kiwi Player]

You have to ask your self what is worse:

a) the total chopper hack who has the shinny Mizuno in the bag because someone told them to.

b) someone who probably can swing the GFF but wants a bit of insurance because they don't play 5 times a week.

I'll take b) over a) any day. There is NOTHING worse on the planet than a sod chopping hacker who sports $900 GFF. I'd rather play with a guy who shoots 90 with Ping shovels any day over someone who can only manage 80 at best with the GFF. Around here, we have plenty of 2-5 caps playing Ping shovels... and plenty of 10-15 caps playing GFF.

LOL - well would you rather I shot 81 with Taylormade R7 TP's or 81 with Mizuno MP-30 4-5 & MP-33 6-PW.

Honestly I bought the Mizunos for about $150 a year ago to see what all the fuss was about and find out about how frighteningly hard to hit blades are. Guess what? A good shot is a good shot and a crap shot is a crap shot with a cavity back or a blade. Imagine that?

I score about the same with either. I just prefer the look of the smaller head now I'm used to them. I really like the feel of the MP-30's and if I was to upgrade I'd go for the cavity back model rather than the blade which is why I was interested in the MP-62.

But based on the beat down delivered by you and Famousdavis it looks like MX-200 is my only option if I want to stick with GFF!

[Mward2002]

CPS, I see that you are one of the few enlightened ones around here. I knew it right away when I saw that you play Ping i5 irons. You understand the game and realize that it's all about scoring.

The Mizuno Kool Aid is thick around here. Here's a good story. I used to play golf with a guy who was around a 3 or 4 handicap. We would play in a regular skins game with an additional game called rabbits and squirrels. Sounds gay but it was cool. Anyway, this guy played Callaway X-12 irons with the standard Memphis 10 uniflex shafts. He was one of the best iron players I have ever seen. He would get on Par 5's in two with his X-12 2-iron from 240 out. He hit shots stiff all the time.

Then, one day he got it into this head that he really shouldn't be playing Callaway X-12 irons at his level. In fact, a player of his calibre should be playing forged blades. So, he sold his Callaway X-12s and bought a brand new set of Mizuno MP-14 irons. His iron game went from phenomenal to just plain average. His long irons suffered the most. You wouldn't believe how long he stuck with the MP-14 irons just hoping that someday they would make him a better player. The truth is he got worse. I remember him telling me "With the X-12's I hit them really well but with the MP-14's I could tell when I hit them off center. They give me better feedback".

This, my friends, is nothing short of pure insanity. What's even more insane is being an 80's or 90's shooter and thinking that blades could help your game. A forged blade is significantly less forgiving than a forged cavity back and certainly less forgiving than a cast cavity back. As to why someone who is not a professional would bag blades rather than cavity backs, I can only surmise that it has nothing to do with scoring and everything to do with ego. This is the same person who drinks dark, foul tasting beer in order to look cool.

It's obvious the MP-14's either were not the same specs as the X-12's, or the GFF didn't think he was a suitable player to be gaming them. GFF choose the player, not the other way around.

Btw, Jeff Overton is another Mizuno staff member. He's on the waste of time known as the Ryder Cup team. Everyone knows we Americans could care less about it.

[Not a hacker]

It's obvious the MP-14's either were not the same specs as the X-12's, or the GFF didn't think he was a suitable player to be gaming them. GFF choose the player, not the other way around.

Btw, Jeff Overton is another Mizuno staff member. He's on the waste of time known as the Ryder Cup team. Everyone knows we Americans could care less about it.

Is he the guy who played in the first group as a 1 in the Tour Championship? Apparently the single went out there with the express intention of breaking the record for the fastest 18 in PGA Tour history and got around in something like 1 hour 20 minutes or something. They said his caddie and scorer were pissed because he was running between shots just to get the record and they had to keep up.

[Not a hacker]

CPS, I see that you are one of the few enlightened ones around here. I knew it right away when I saw that you play Ping i5 irons. You understand the game and realize that it's all about scoring.

The Mizuno Kool Aid is thick around here. Here's a good story. I used to play golf with a guy who was around a 3 or 4 handicap. We would play in a regular skins game with an additional game called rabbits and squirrels. Sounds gay but it was cool. Anyway, this guy played Callaway X-12 irons with the standard Memphis 10 uniflex shafts. He was one of the best iron players I have ever seen. He would get on Par 5's in two with his X-12 2-iron from 240 out. He hit shots stiff all the time.

Then, one day he got it into this head that he really shouldn't be playing Callaway X-12 irons at his level. In fact, a player of his calibre should be playing forged blades. So, he sold his Callaway X-12s and bought a brand new set of Mizuno MP-14 irons. His iron game went from phenomenal to just plain average. His long irons suffered the most. You wouldn't believe how long he stuck with the MP-14 irons just hoping that someday they would make him a better player. The truth is he got worse. I remember him telling me "With the X-12's I hit them really well but with the MP-14's I could tell when I hit them off center. They give me better feedback".

This, my friends, is nothing short of pure insanity. What's even more insane is being an 80's or 90's shooter and thinking that blades could help your game. A forged blade is significantly less forgiving than a forged cavity back and certainly less forgiving than a cast cavity back. As to why someone who is not a professional would bag blades rather than cavity backs, I can only surmise that it has nothing to do with scoring and everything to do with ego. This is the same person who drinks dark, foul tasting beer in order to look cool.

This sounds like the advice I got from a pro mate of mine. He said you should play with shovels and practice with blades. He theorises that you need to know what you are doing right or wrong when practising on the range, but need something that won't punish you out on the course. I think this good advice, but said shovels actually have to be precise enough to produce good results and some level of workability. It's no good going out with a set of graphite shafted Big Berthas cause they're easy to hit, when all you can hit is straight balloons. I think you should also have quality wedges and short irons that are still precise enough for touch shots around the green. I wouldn't want to be facing a delicate pitch or bump and run with a garden spade.

And FD we all know you were talking precisely about yourself when making the missing the sweetspot comments, we all know from your arse whooping at the hands of Dave that you're a sod laying chopper. Kiwi rolled over a bit quickly on that one. He must be a cricket fan.