Lets discuss the golf swing

[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGT2BpaUlgs

If we want to develop a golf swing that enables us to consistently hit it straight and long, our fundamentals must be correct. So we must stand correctly, not sway, and turn correctly while placing the club in alignment with the swing plane. That keeps it simple. All that is required from a correct top position is a pivot and the shoulder and arms will carry the clubhead on plane through the ball. It goes straight and long.

Hit fairways from the tee and greens from the fairway. Make a few putts and shoot par. Win the money.

Larry

[Kiwi Player]

Ain't it great to see the site has been upgraded and all the emoticoms are working!

[DGreen]

Is that a "chicken wing" I think I see or maybe it's the angle of the camera?

[Kiwi Player]

More chicken wing than you'll see at KFC.

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[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGT2BpaUlgs

If we want to develop a golf swing that enables us to consistently hit it straight and long, our fundamentals must be correct. So we must stand correctly, not sway, and turn correctly while placing the club in alignment with the swing plane. That keeps it simple. All that is required from a correct top position is a pivot and the shoulder and arms will carry the clubhead on plane through the ball. It goes straight and long.

Hit fairways from the tee and greens from the fairway. Make a few putts and shoot par. Win the money.

Larry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FXoQ...ature=youtu.be

Here I am working to better coordinate my arms and hips, to lead my downswing with hips as Hogan taught. This requires an early weight transfer and steady front leg "post." Then the back knee is thrown across (which is the hips) and the hands come down together, the hands have NOT forced the club to cast. Most good golfers PULL the club handle with the top three fingers of their upper hand. The dominant hand "only along for the ride" to quite Bobby Jones. Like a new dance step or a new tune on guitar, this must be rehearsed in slow motion.

Larry

[spanqdoggie]

That sucks that you have to practice on poverty fake grass mats... Feel sorry for you.

I hit buckets on real grass here in San Francisco.

Again, so sorry for you man...

[DGreen]

Not a bad looking swing Larry, your left elbow looks pretty good in that video.

[Larryrsf]

Thanks, but you should be watching the coordination of my hands with my hips. I try to start my knee (my hips) across as my hands start down. The hips should lead the shoulders and arms, providing the power in the golf swing. It is NOT arms and hands.

In order to do this really well, we need to be able to "separate" our hips from our shoulders so that we can throw our hips around while the shoulders remain back. Many older amateurs simply can't do that. But they could with specific loosening exercises. I use a PT who knows the TPI golf-specific stretches and strengthening exercises.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

If you have a good swing, the surface really doesn't matter. The mat is just a tight lie. I love to hit my 3w off the mat because it is harder to hit it crisp. It is really good practice to hit driver off the mat, bring the clubhead down to the ball precisely. A good swing test. If you have ANY sway or bogus backswing action in hands or arms, you will top or chunk.

Larry

[alangbaker]

If you have a good swing, the surface really doesn't matter. The mat is just a tight lie. I love to hit my 3w off the mat because it is harder to hit it crisp. It is really good practice to hit driver off the mat, bring the clubhead down to the ball precisely. A good swing test. If you have ANY sway or bogus backswing action in hands or arms, you will top or chunk.

See, Larry: this is the sort of thing you post that reveals you are utterly CLUELESS about real golf.

Everyone who knows the game knows that hitting of a mat can be extremely misleading about the quality of the contact you make. The mat is a tight lie that lets you hit the ball 6 inches fat and then skid across the surface to hit the ball. Try that on the course and you'll move the ball 15 yards, tops.

Just like this boob at 26 seconds in to the video:

At least 6 inches fat

[hubijerk]

Larry... When studying Hogan you have to remember that there was a difference between the things he said he did, and what video shows that he actually did... Hogan didn't lead with his hips. I have been a student of Hogan for awhile, I have studied, and built a 1 plane type swing similar to hogans and frankly, you can't pick and choose things that you physically can do and combine them with you're more upright angles. You are not as athletic as Hogan, trying to incorporate his wide stance, big circular shoulder turn, and hip turn restriction would probably do some damage in you're case. This is why you're teacher has put you in a more upright position swinging more up and down than around like Hogan. At the top, Hogan's shoulders turned around a single spine angle about twice as much as his hips turned... By impact his hips and shoulders were almost completely back to even. Even though Hogan states that his hips start turning what he really means is that his core, chest, abdomen (and therefore hips as well) begin to rotate aggressively, obviously if by impact the chest and hips were matched, yet at the top the chest had twice the distance to cover, the chest/abdomen must outpace the hips by a 2:1 rate. Look at slow mo video and you'll see a simultaneous turn of the shoulders/hips to maybe a slight shoulder headstart but what's important to note is that hogan kept his arms tight and really aggressively rotated his upper body. This is not to say he doesn't drive with his lower body, or rotate his hips, but in Hogan's swing the hip's don't lead the downswing, regardless of what hogan thought. At this point depending on which way you're right arm moves depends on whether you hit a block/huge hook, or a straight ball. From you're upright position you'll find yourself sliding more than turning, but that's the nature of you're swing, I don't think you're athletic enough to pull off a Hogan type swing, and I don't think you should be trying to copy anything Hogan does.

[DGreen]

hubijerk is right Larry, unfortunately you are not athletic enough to work all this stuff in. Again, focus on that left elbow coming down, it will really help you when you play.

[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpaTymxxzo8

Here is Shawn Clement demonstrating what I work to achieve. His arms and his back knee work together. I say his hips lead like Hogan said, but if they actually come through together, that is fine. At least he is not LATE, which is what 99% of amateurs do. They swing before their weight has shifted, their arms pass their hips out of sequence. So the slow motion reps are the only possible way to change our subconscious on this. We must feel an urge to move differently than we did before. Nobody knows another way to change.

Larry

[Larryrsf]

Wow! I sure wish the golf swing were that simple! We could just do any old thing while focused on one body part, ha. I should enter a tournament!

Larry

[Larryrsf]

Larry... When studying Hogan you have to remember that there was a difference between the things he said he did, and what video shows that he actually did... Hogan didn't lead with his hips. I have been a student of Hogan for awhile, I have studied, and built a 1 plane type swing similar to hogans and frankly, you can't pick and choose things that you physically can do and combine them with you're more upright angles. You are not as athletic as Hogan, trying to incorporate his wide stance, big circular shoulder turn, and hip turn restriction would probably do some damage in you're case. This is why you're teacher has put you in a more upright position swinging more up and down than around like Hogan. At the top, Hogan's shoulders turned around a single spine angle about twice as much as his hips turned... By impact his hips and shoulders were almost completely back to even. Even though Hogan states that his hips start turning what he really means is that his core, chest, abdomen (and therefore hips as well) begin to rotate aggressively, obviously if by impact the chest and hips were matched, yet at the top the chest had twice the distance to cover, the chest/abdomen must outpace the hips by a 2:1 rate. Look at slow mo video and you'll see a simultaneous turn of the shoulders/hips to maybe a slight shoulder headstart but what's important to note is that hogan kept his arms tight and really aggressively rotated his upper body. This is not to say he doesn't drive with his lower body, or rotate his hips, but in Hogan's swing the hip's don't lead the downswing, regardless of what hogan thought. At this point depending on which way you're right arm moves depends on whether you hit a block/huge hook, or a straight ball. From you're upright position you'll find yourself sliding more than turning, but that's the nature of you're swing, I don't think you're athletic enough to pull off a Hogan type swing, and I don't think you should be trying to copy anything Hogan does.

But then you are not an experienced PGA pro who has taught many amateurs, including many as old as me, to make a correct golf swing. So I must discount what you think. My pro says I can do it.

I am also working with a PT who knows and makes me do the TPI golf specific exercises and stretches. I have become able to separate my hips! I can balance on one leg and hold my spine angle and do the other physical tests that TPI lists as necessary for the golf swing. So yes, I can make a correct golf swing. And it will just get better as I ingrain the correct positions and the correct sequence. I will persist.

Larry

[alangbaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpaTymxxzo8

Here is Shawn Clement demonstrating what I work to achieve. His arms and his back knee work together. I say his hips lead like Hogan said, but if they actually come through together, that is fine. At least he is not LATE, which is what 99% of amateurs do. They swing before their weight has shifted, their arms pass their hips out of sequence. So the slow motion reps are the only possible way to change our subconscious on this. We must feel an urge to move differently than we did before. Nobody knows another way to change.

YOU don't know another way to change, or YOU are just incapable of it.

I've changed my swing quite easily, thanks.

And Shawn Clements isn't demonstrating anything remotely like you've posted of yourself swinging...

[alangbaker]

But then you are not an experienced PGA pro who has taught many amateurs, including many as old as me, to make a correct golf swing. So I must discount what you think. My pro says I can do it.

Last time I checked, you're not an experienced PGA pro either, Larry, but that hasn't stopped you from pontificating, has it?

I am also working with a PT who knows and makes me do the TPI golf specific exercises and stretches. I have become able to separate my hips! I can balance on one leg and hold my spine angle and do the other physical tests that TPI lists as necessary for the golf swing. So yes, I can make a correct golf swing. And it will just get better as I ingrain the correct positions and the correct sequence. I will persist.

Persist in lying about your achievements, you mean? Because you realize that some of us know that you've claimed to have achieved this hip separation before, you know...

[hubijerk]

Larry, you're right, what was I thinking, obviously the guys who are taking you're money and have a vested interest in you NOT improving have your best interests in mind. 2 corrections... Since you insist on comparing yourself to Hogan, and you mentioned weight shift, take a look at Hogan at the top from the side and you'll notice that his weight is over his front side at the top, Hogan's power did not come from his weight "transfer" as much of it was already on his left side... But that worked for HIM, his fast tempo, his grip, his more bent over address position, you can't just take a few things here or there that you like and discard the other stuff that you can't do, it all fits together.... So you say lets discuss the golf swing, or release or whatever the new move or drill of the day is, but it becomes painfully obvious once someone who's knowledgeable tries to have a conversation with you about the swing that you really know far less about the swing, and various swing theories that you believe you do... So you revert to attempting to put some one down or discredit them ie: you are not a pga pro who has taught people..." If my students were to be like you I say THANK GOD for that. So stop posting things like "lets talk about the swing" when you neither want to, nor are able to. I get it, paying this guy money and hitting rocks on a range makes you happy, great. But blindly following someones instruction without a good understanding of the theories and ideas you're trying to incorporate seems foolish to me...

[Larryrsf]

Larry, you're right, what was I thinking, obviously the guys who are taking you're money and have a vested interest in you NOT improving have your best interests in mind. 2 corrections... Since you insist on comparing yourself to Hogan, and you mentioned weight shift, take a look at Hogan at the top from the side and you'll notice that his weight is over his front side at the top, Hogan's power did not come from his weight "transfer" as much of it was already on his left side... But that worked for HIM, his fast tempo, his grip, his more bent over address position, you can't just take a few things here or there that you like and discard the other stuff that you can't do, it all fits together.... So you say lets discuss the golf swing, or release or whatever the new move or drill of the day is, but it becomes painfully obvious once someone who's knowledgeable tries to have a conversation with you about the swing that you really know far less about the swing, and various swing theories that you believe you do... So you revert to attempting to put some one down or discredit them ie: you are not a pga pro who has taught people..." If my students were to be like you I say THANK GOD for that. So stop posting things like "lets talk about the swing" when you neither want to, nor are able to. I get it, paying this guy money and hitting rocks on a range makes you happy, great. But blindly following someones instruction without a good understanding of the theories and ideas you're trying to incorporate seems foolish to me...

I think Leadbetter successfully refuted the claim that Hogan made a reverse pivot. He didn't. His weight actually shifted back and then quickly back to his front leg "post" again.

He could have demonstrated his swing in extremely slow motion, which requires that he remain in perfect balance from start to finish. In fact slow motion is a very good way to practice your swing. In the video below, my teaching pro demonstrates in slow motion and then I do it. This is MUCH HARDER than swinging at tempo, BTW. Try it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymsmb...ature=youtu.be

Larry

[alangbaker]

I think Leadbetter successfully refuted the claim that Hogan made a reverse pivot. He didn't. His weight actually shifted back and then quickly back to his front leg "post" again.

He could have demonstrated his swing in extremely slow motion, which requires that he remain in perfect balance from start to finish. In fact slow motion is a very good way to practice your swing. In the video below, my teaching pro demonstrates in slow motion and then I do it. This is MUCH HARDER than swinging at tempo, BTW. Try it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymsmb...ature=youtu.be

Larry

Where do you get the idea that that ridiculous upward thrust of the hips you make is something you want to be practicing?

[Larryrsf]

From a teacher who charges $120 per hour. More than your monthly income.

[alangbaker]

From a teacher who charges $120 per hour. More than your monthly income.

What was it you said about people who make personal attacks.

Your upthrust is WRONG, and your teacher is just your flavour of the month.

[DGreen]

Paralysis by analysis Larry, unfortunately this is going to stop you from ever having a good repeatable swing.

[Larryrsf]

Or not. That is such a poison defeatist attitude. Nobody would ever accomplish anything difficult if they just quit when confronted with something really hard to learn. So what does an amateur who wants to swing correctly do? Just keep repeating his mistake? What does a guitar student who wants to play an advanced tune do? Does he just give up? NO, he works on it. He persists and persists and persists some more with teachers and books and practice and one day he can do it.

See ya out there.

Larry

[alangbaker]

Or not. That is such a poison defeatist attitude. Nobody would ever accomplish anything difficult if they just quit when confronted with something really hard to learn. So what does an amateur who wants to swing correctly do? Just keep repeating his mistake? What does a guitar student who wants to play an advanced tune do? Does he just give up? NO, he works on it. He persists and persists and persists some more with teachers and books and practice and one day he can do it.

See ya out there.

No person who wasn't a self-centred narcissist would insist time after time to have master a skill only to have come back time after time and claim he has NOW mastered it ("No, really: this time for certain!").

[jt1135]

Well, looks like the same old tired crap from Lauri. Probably spent 1 hour total in the last 5 months swinging a club because of the winter. No going to the range or practice green and shot an 88. I can live with that. Lory, go out and just play the damn game.

[alangbaker]

Well, looks like the same old tired crap from Lauri. Probably spent 1 hour total in the last 5 months swinging a club because of the winter. No going to the range or practice green and shot an 88. I can live with that. Lory, go out and just play the damn game.

He can't PLAY the game, JT...

...all he can do is talk about it and how good he's going to be!

[DGreen]

More and more Larry I'm thinking that your real problem has to do with "LOFT".

[Larryrsf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmsmbKI_K3I

Played 18 yesterday, shot 80 from the blues.

The youtube above shows a very good way to rehearse and ingrain a correct golf swing-- once you can make one. So take enough lessons that you know where the club should be everywhere in your swing, and then do it very slowly, slowly enough to stop and get it exactly right everywhere. This is harder than it looks because your weight shift and your hips and arms must coordinate exactly as they do in a full speed swing. But as teaching pros know, and especially Harvey Penick, very slow rehearsals swings are the best way to train ourselves in the part of the movement that occur at high speeds, speeds that can be controlled only by our subconscious mind, ingrained habits.

Larry

[alangbaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmsmbKI_K3I

Played 18 yesterday, shot 80 from the blues.

Riiiiiight. What course?

The youtube above shows a very good way to rehearse and ingrain a correct golf swing-- once you can make one.

Except you're not making one. Show me a single pros swing where the lead hip moves UP like that and where the lead hip ends up AHEAD of the lead foot.

So take enough lessons that you know where the club should be everywhere in your swing, and then do it very slowly, slowly enough to stop and get it exactly right everywhere. This is harder than it looks because your weight shift and your hips and arms must coordinate exactly as they do in a full speed swing. But as teaching pros know, and especially Harvey Penick, very slow rehearsals swings are the best way to train ourselves in the part of the movement that occur at high speeds, speeds that can be controlled only by our subconscious mind, ingrained habits.

So you have claimed before...

...then abandoned...

...then claimed again...

...then abandoned...

...then claimed...

...then abandoned...

...etc., etc. ad infinitum.

[DGreen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmsmbKI_K3I

Played 18 yesterday, shot 80 from the blues.

The youtube above shows a very good way to rehearse and ingrain a correct golf swing-- once you can make one. So take enough lessons that you know where the club should be everywhere in your swing, and then do it very slowly, slowly enough to stop and get it exactly right everywhere. This is harder than it looks because your weight shift and your hips and arms must coordinate exactly as they do in a full speed swing. But as teaching pros know, and especially Harvey Penick, very slow rehearsals swings are the best way to train ourselves in the part of the movement that occur at high speeds, speeds that can be controlled only by our subconscious mind, ingrained habits.

Larry

Sorry Larry, "shot 80 from the blues", ...........I find that very hard to believe.

[Kiwi Player]

Sorry Larry, "shot 80 from the blues", ...........I find that very hard to believe.

He's pretty consistent, you gotta give him that. He always shoots 80 from the blues. Never 79 or 81 or 82.

[DGreen]

He's pretty consistent, you gotta give him that. He always shoots 80 from the blues. Never 79 or 81 or 82.

I also notice that he doesn't post scores............unusual for a guy who plays as much as he says he does.

[alangbaker]

I also notice that he doesn't post scores............unusual for a guy who plays as much as he says he does.

Well... ...you've got to understand:

Larry's not smart enough to keep his lies consistent with his earlier lies, so when he did post scores, it became obvious that he was lying.