Why don't scratch golfers go to Q School?

[wormburner]

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

[Ed "White Shoes" Rooney]

You're in the wrong place if you're looking for par shooters.

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

[onetime]

Someone with the name wormburner is asking this type of question. Yup, you are in the right place.

[wormburner]

Sorry. Even if you aren't a par shooter, maybe you know. It's just a question.

[Bravo35223]

OK Worm - I'll bite.

Although there are multiple issues why more people do not try to become a touring professional one of the most dominant is money.

Obviously, for touring professionals this is a fulltime job. And they have become so good at it - they can make a living (get rich doing it).

But what about those who have been through the process of getting their Tour card and are just starting out on the main tour or even the minor tour?

Well - it is estimated that the annual cost of travel and lodging, meals - for a touring professional is over $100,000 per year. So you've got to cover that expense out of some kind of bank account. Frankly the way this is usually funded is by "investors" - well heeled individuals who underwrite the efforts of the player starting out.

Then you play on Thursday and Friday and miss the cut. Sorry - NO paycheck this week, but you gotta check out of hotel and pay the bill. And fly home.

So all the playing issues aside (which I did not discuss) - Old Man Money is probably the primary reason why more "scratch" golfers don't give it a go...

[Montagle]

You can take all the top (and not even top) collegiate golfers, and Hooters players, and Nationwide players, and local club champions, and hot state amateurs and pros. Scratch golfers are not that rare of a breed.

The difference between these non PGA Tour players and those on tour is very minimal.
Maybe a shot a day. Maybe two.

That shot a day over a four day tournament is the difference between making money and having your sponsors come down on you.

Look at the US Am champions who never made a dent on tour, or even failed to get there.

A smart guy knows that it is an awful large long shot. If I were a plus 3 or something I would give it a crack were I single and still under 25.

[LBCGolf]

Technically for you to be a scratch player you shoot par at a 113 slope 72.0 rating course. A setup at any given course can be made easy or hard, and us casual hackers even the scratch ones will play on a bunch of courses that are relatively mellow so to speak.

Now I have played on a dozen courses where the Nationwide Tour tourney plays either the day before or the day after the tourney took place. A couple of times at PGA Tour tourney tracks. And let me tell you the setup is just brutal! Not only are the tracks not your usual weekend muni but they play the tournament tips, 3 inch high roughs, greens with 13 on the stimp and ungodly pin positions. You manage to shoot par in conditions like that and I'd guess you'd be at least a +3.

Plenty of scratch golfers. Not too many +3s out there particularly those that have the means to drop $100k in expenses per year chasing their dreams.

[corysold]

I have a buddy who is an assisstant pro, has about a +2 handicap. Plays Illinois PGA tournaments, rarely finishes in the money (top 40 or so of each tournament) I think that there are a lot more very good golfers out there than everybody realizes. Plus, according to my friend, Q-School is $3,000 plus travel and lodging, not a small amount for someone just looking to give it a chance.

[fred3]

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

or what's not between the ears. If you get my meaning. There are a lot of very talented ball strikers out there. In my opinion what differentiates the touringing pros from them is the ability to put aside all the distractions and focus singlemindedly on the task of making the best swing each and every time. For four days. Weeks at a time. It's a thought process that many professionals in many sports are able to accomplish, but in golf it lasts for at least 4 straight hours and usually four straight days.

I don't know about you, but just concentrating like that for 4 straight holes is always a challenge. I've personally known a few golfers who've had the phyiscal talent to be a touring pro. They even won some suncoast tour stops. When it came to the big time it was just too much mentally for them to handle.

It takes a special kind of person to handle the pressure. It takes a very special person to do it for four days in a row.

[Jack_MP-33]

wwhat huh dude

[fred3]

wwhat huh dude

we see the beginnings of either a hacker ad infinitum or someone who will never suffer from paralysis by analysis.

Me? I suffer from both.

[wombat]

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

There is a MASSIVE gap between a typical scratch amateur and a PGA tour pro. Remember those guys on "The Big Break?". Do you think any of those guys would break par on a course setup for a tour event (thick rough, slick greens, wicked pin placements)?

If a typical scratch amateur played a round at a tour event they would not break 80.

[bgathens]

In a nushell - expenses - however, what wasn't mentioned are things like
"tee-up" money and "ball money" - what the manufacturers will for anybody who
tees up on Number One with their equipment (the Darrell Survey)....Titleist and
Callaway are said to be $3,000 for the driver and Titleist is $1,000 for the ball...but
it still costs a lot to live that lifestyle....and sponsors are looking for high returns
on investment...."scratch" gives up 5 or 6 strokes to the better pros...adhere to
the old saying: "it takes money to make money"

[cheechman]

Have known a couple local guys try and fail, it makes a mess of your golfing life for a while down here.

Not sure of how it works on the US tour, though here is risky business.

As written on the PGA aust site


LOSS OF AMATEUR STATUS
Amateur golfers who reach stage 2 of the PGA Tour of Australasia Tournament Qualifying School automatically forfeit their amateur status. This means that failure in the Qualifying School will leave a player in limbo, that is, neither an amateur nor professional golfer.

Reinstatement as an amateur is a long drawn out process through the Australian Golf Union, with mandatory probationary periods being set from six (6) months to four (4) years before an amateur status is regained.

[Bravo35223]

Have known a couple local guys try and fail, it makes a mess of your golfing life for a while down here.

Not sure of how it works on the US tour, though here is risky business.

As written on the PGA aust site


LOSS OF AMATEUR STATUS
Amateur golfers who reach stage 2 of the PGA Tour of Australasia Tournament Qualifying School automatically forfeit their amateur status. This means that failure in the Qualifying School will leave a player in limbo, that is, neither an amateur nor professional golfer.

Reinstatement as an amateur is a long drawn out process through the Australian Golf Union, with mandatory probationary periods being set from six (6) months to four (4) years before an amateur status is regained.

I can see six months - but four years would be brutal....

[addicted2golf]

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

The pros shoot well under par without all the cameras....if u cant even shoot under par without any cameras u have no chance of being pro...just my opinion.....

[Tommysels41]

The pros shoot well under par without all the cameras....if u cant even shoot under par without any cameras u have no chance of being pro...just my opinion.....

Why'd you bring back this thread?

[Benguk]

This thread is dead, it has all of Worms answers answered, and there isnt much of a reason to say anymore unless you disagree with someones opinion.

[bethpage caddy]

Well, I'll chime in here. Theres many reasons:

1. The money. A pro needs money for the plane and accomodations for all these events, to qualify and such. It could possibly be a big waste if you don't make it.

2. The wear and tear on the body. Some people can't take it.

3. You have to have a + handicap to consider it. Most pros could shoot a 64-65 on your local course no questions asked. Being scratch isn't good enough.

4. The courses are MUCH harder, in ways you can't even see on TV. The rough, the lightning fast greens, the length of the courses.

There are many more factors, these are just some.

[m1muiz]

interesting that this topic came out at this time. I am actually helping out my Club pro at qualifying for the Asian Tour. The Q-school is in January and lasts for up to 10 days (2 cuts). Entrance fee is US$3000. I am a medical doctor with interests in Sports Medicine as I am an avid sportman and like to go into the details of performance sports (but am actually training to be an ophthalmologist!). Anyway, this guy is actually a touring pro, but has to teach to make ends meet. This really screws up our training as he has to teach from time to time. He also told me that the cost for the whole Asian Tour is about US$80,000 per year. Apparently someone will sponsor him if he qualifies. Dont quit your day job for golf!

So, what do I get from this deal? Nothing monetary. Hopefully I get some satisfaction in kick-starting someones career, MAYBE some free tips for me to break 95! LOL...

Wish us luck,

Mooze

[Dany7500]

m1 muiz.. I know you're from malaysia... just curious whether there is any chance you're the muiz who went to RMC for secondary education? you sound a lot like him..... just asking ....

[m1muiz]

Sorry, wrong Muiz... I was in Bukit Bintang Boys.. my DAD went to RMC...

cheers,
Muiz

[ce_me_golf]

If you shoot even par or better on 7000 yards, why wouldn't you consider a shot at the pros? Do you actually need to shoot well under par to have a shot? What's your experience?

Here's my take; shooting par just won't cut it to make it through Q-School. To even have a chance you have to be able to shoot in the mid to low 60's consistently on a "Normal" course to even THINK ABOUT IT. For some weeks on the either the Nationwide or PGA tour if you shoot just par you won't even make the cut. Quite simply you have to capable of going low to have a shot a being a tour player.

Not only that you have to be able to play well UNDER PRESSURE. There are plenty of guys that can play well during a weekend round with their buddies. But having to do it under the PRESSURE of tournament conditions is another story. Others have also mentioned the basic traveling expenses. And don't underestimate the physical condtioning involved to be able to play four competitive rounds of golf in a row in the heat of the summer. Most recreational golfers use carts. Walking the course puts an additional physical demand on a player.

[swvaguy]

Another factor that no one has mentioned is - desire. Playing golf professionally is MUCH different from just being a great golfer. I know that if I were a scratch golfer, I still wouldn't be interested in trying out becuase I'd rather golf be a fun diversion instead of a job. Hitting a thousand balls a day every day of the week can get old after a while. IMO it's much better to just go play and enjoy the game. Not saying I don't hit the driving range, because I do, but certainly not every day for hours on end.

That doesn't even begin to describe the 'fun' of staying in hotels the bulk of your time, travelling across the country with little rest, and knowing that the putt you just missed wasn't for a $2 nassau, but rather $15K.

[College Golf]

Hey, at times I love to get away from the game. Just college level golf is a lot of work and some times you just would rather do something else.

I was told this is Tigers practice before a major:

Mon. 14 hour on the range 500 to 900 balls
Tues. 14 more hours on the range another 500 to 900 balls
Wed. Short game and putting for 14 hours
Thur. 54 holes played
Fri. 54 holes played
Sat. Practice the worst shots of the last 108 golf holes (about 6 hours)
Sun. Travel
Mon. Start the practice rounds

And if you think you want to play the tour, you must first own all your state tournaments and play to like a +5 on your home course from the tips. Now you may have a chance!

[Jimbo1013]

Hey, at times I love to get away from the game. Just college level golf is a lot of work and some times you just would rather do something else.

I was told this is Tigers practice before a major:

Mon. 14 hour on the range 500 to 900 balls
Tues. 14 more hours on the range another 500 to 900 balls
Wed. Short game and putting for 14 hours
Thur. 54 holes played
Fri. 54 holes played
Sat. Practice the worst shots of the last 108 golf holes (about 6 hours)
Sun. Travel
Mon. Start the practice rounds

And if you think you want to play the tour, you must first own all your state tournaments and play to like a +5 on your home course from the tips. Now you may have a chance!

If this is true, and i'm not saying it isn't, then we all know why Tiger is THE best right now. I personally believe that being a pro at ANYTHING changes your outlook on that profession. Take something you truly love and do it under the conditions these guys play under, i for one don't think i could handle it.
I also have read somewhere that the difference between being a pro and being a scratch golfer is roughly equal to the difference between being a scratch golfer and a 15 handicap. i for one believe this.

[garcia is god]

I also have read somewhere that the difference between being a pro and being a scratch golfer is roughly equal to the difference between being a scratch golfer and a 15 handicap. i for one believe this.

Yes, I've also heard something similar.