Ball Spin with Driver - help?

**macmai** · 09-12-2006

Ok, at least I don't think there's already been a recent thread about this (thanks for the nudge PHSgolfguy), so here's my call for help.

I've been plagued by ballooning balls with my driver. I've tried diff combos, current stick is a TM 9.5* with stiff Graff Blue (not prolaunch). However, I still get BALLOONING balls way more often than I like.

I stopped by Golf Galaxy tonight to swing some of their sticks, and using drivers with lofts from 9.5* to 13*, I would get a ball spin rate of about 4000 - 4900 rpm and launch angles from 17-19 degrees. The GG employee was very surprised. Only when I tried a 7* driver did I get the ball spin rate down to about 3500 with launch angle of 15*.

Now, without getting in to swing speed and yardage flames (got reamed last time I even mentioned these numbers), I've never felt I swing fast enough to use a 7* driver, but for whatever reason, it gave me the best results on the monitor.

I am going to schedule a driver fitting, but thought I'd ping you guys for your input.

Thanks.

**PHSgolfguy** · 09-12-2006

not to be an ass, but what makes you think its all the clubs fault that you're ballooning it? maybe its your swing. i used to balloon the **** out of the ball and then i took a few lessons and it stopped

**macmai** · 09-13-2006

actually, wasn't implying that it was all the club's fault that the ball is ballooning. i would assume a ball's behavior is affected by club, ball, weather, AND swing characteristics. i'm just trying to understand what is causing the excessive rpm's, be it my swing, club or whatever, and was soliciting the help of the folks here to help explain it to me.

i've tried swinging on the up, moving the ball around in my stance, even swinging downward, but no conclusive results yet.

so what was it about your swing that was making the balls balloon?

**Omen** · 09-13-2006

i used to have a balloning problem....blamed the club setup....figured that 8.5 and shaft was the reason......8.5 had nada to do with it....shaft was causing the ball to go a little too high, but was mainly responsible for the hooking.....got the right shaft....fixed the hook....got the right swing fixed the ballooning....in fact my 905t is 9.5....so i agree with phs.....its probably your swing....if bubba watson is able to keep down a 9* driver, you should be able to as well, unless you have ever averaged more than 318 yards a season, he even had one year where it was more like 334....no offense intended.

**sunnyscal** · 09-13-2006

Originally Posted by macmai

Ok, at least I don't think there's already been a recent thread about this (thanks for the nudge PHSgolfguy), so here's my call for help.

I've been plagued by ballooning balls with my driver. I've tried diff combos, current stick is a TM 9.5* with stiff Graff Blue (not prolaunch). However, I still get BALLOONING balls way more often than I like.

I stopped by Golf Galaxy tonight to swing some of their sticks, and using drivers with lofts from 9.5* to 13*, I would get a ball spin rate of about 4000 - 4900 rpm and launch angles from 17-19 degrees. The GG employee was very surprised. Only when I tried a 7* driver did I get the ball spin rate down to about 3500 with launch angle of 15*.

Now, without getting in to swing speed and yardage flames (got reamed last time I even mentioned these numbers), I've never felt I swing fast enough to use a 7* driver, but for whatever reason, it gave me the best results on the monitor.

I am going to schedule a driver fitting, but thought I'd ping you guys for your input.

Thanks.

Assuming your swing speed is 100+ mph cause you're hitting with the Blue stiff flex, ideal launch angle should be 13-14* launch angle with 2500 minus rpm spin rate. Looks like you're hitting down or have steeper angle of attack on driver shots, I do the same thing as well. One way is to move the tee a bit toward your left foot (right handed golfer), or try low spin driver head/shaft. I found SQ Tour has lower spin rate than Cleveland Launcher 460, and I made the switch, low spin/ball flight shaft (tip stiffer, low torque and heavier weight) should help also.

**dorkman53** · 09-13-2006

I'm no expert in this area, but those figures are certainly unusual. Assuming the machine was calibrated properly, and you are actually noting ballooning "in the real world", then sunnyscal's observations appear very reasonable. The driver is the only club one should be swinging with an upward stroke; hitting down on the ball like an iron might cause the problems you describe. My instructor told me that the way to get a high launch with low spin (other than contributory head/shaft equipment issues) is to attempt to hit upward on the ball at close to the same angle as the driver loft. (That is, if your driver has 10 degrees of loft, attempt to contact the ball when the clubface is rising upward at about 10 degrees from the ground.) To do that, you need to tee it up a bit higher and tee it farther forward to allow the clubhead to strike the ball on the upward portion of the swing arc, vs. at the bottom as with an iron. It's a simple thing to try before spending money on equipment changes.

**sunnyscal** · 09-13-2006

Hi dorkman53,

Yup, tee it up will help you launching the ball on upward attack but it's not for my own swing and I tend to popping up or balooning more. When I switched to my SQ Tour I teed it lower than my 460 Launcher, better ball flights and more rolls after carry. Stuart Appleby, Tiger Woods and Sergio Garcia all tee it low on driver shots. You should notice how Tiger tees it on his Nike Swing Portrait commercial.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18355418627155

Tee it up will help many folks but not very good for my swing.

**dorkman53** · 09-13-2006

Originally Posted by sunnyscal

Hi dorkman53,

Yup, tee it up will help you launching the ball on upward attack but it's not for my own swing and I tend to popping up or balooning more. When I switched to my SQ Tour I teed it lower than my 460 Launcher, better ball flights and more rolls after carry. Stuart Appleby, Tiger Woods and Sergio Garcia all tee it low on driver shots. You should notice how Tiger tees it on his Nike Swing Portrait commercial.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18355418627155

Tee it up will help many folks but not very good for my swing.

Like everything else, it has to be tempered with common sense and subjected to how it works in the real world. I don't tee the ball up as high as some, but I am doing it higher than I used to. Obviously, a popup "wedge shot" from the driver is a major problem. These are things to be worked out on the driving range, then applied as they work or rejected if they don't.

**sunnyscal** · 09-13-2006

Very true. I tee it just about the same height as Tiger does in the Nike Commercial with my SQ 9.5* Tour, if it works for me as teeing not very high, I guess it's fine. Frank Thomas does suggest tee it up to counter driver over spin in his web site.

**dorkman53** · 09-13-2006

How high you tee it is also determined by the face depth (no surprise there). Low center of gravity/wider, shallow face drivers can't be teed up as high as high faced, higher center of gravity clubs. Clubs like the HiBore, Sasquatch, and TM ht series have lower faces with the weight distributed deeper and more posteriorly, vs. some of the 2 1/2" deep faced drivers out there.

**sunnyscal** · 09-13-2006

I agree, HiBore and Sasquatch Max/Tour all have low center of gravity and lower sweet spot, you don't have to tee it too high. I watched Stuart Appleby teed it low with his J33R driver on the "Golf Channel on Demand" from my cable TV, was surprised too. He said people asked him about that in ProAm and he said Sergio Garcia (is he using TM HT?) tees it low too.

**macmai** · 09-13-2006

That is one thing I will try to experiment with is tee height. I've been under the understanding that teeing it up high will reduce ball spin, etc. a la many golf clinics on the Golf Channel. The golf galaxy attendee said that's not always the case and suggested I try to tee it a bit lower to catch it slightly lower on the face.

Hey, I really do appreciate the input here. Needless to say, I'm rather confused at this point.

**dorkman53** · 09-13-2006

Originally Posted by macmai

That is one thing I will try to experiment with is tee height. I've been under the understanding that teeing it up high will reduce ball spin, etc. a la many golf clinics on the Golf Channel. The golf galaxy attendee said that's not always the case and suggested I try to tee it a bit lower to catch it slightly lower on the face.

Hey, I really do appreciate the input here. Needless to say, I'm rather confused at this point.

Teeing it higher might reduce spin because you'd be hitting the ball on the upswing (assuming the tee is far enough forward) so you'd be closer to matching the upward arc of the club with the loft of the club, as mentioned before (also assuming that you hit the ball somewhere in the middle of the face.). Hitting it high on the clubface will increase spin because with the bulge and roll of a driver the true loft of the upper part of the face can be 2-3 degrees higher than in the middle or lower parts of the clubface. So a 10 degree driver might be acting like a 12 or 13 degree club. That's also why a ball struck low on the driver head will come out with such a low trajectory; you've taken the stated loft (in the center of the clubface) and taken off another couple of degrees, so 10 degree driver might play more like a 7 or 8 if hit at the bottom of the face.
Wishon makes some drivers with no vertical curvature/variation in loft; only horizontal curvature. Wherever on the face you hit the ball, it will have the same effective loft.

**andrew7** · 09-13-2006

Mac.
Try hitting your driver off the deck.
Vey hard to hit down on it if that is your problem. Then tee is up higher and higher progressively until you are making the contact you want...
If you tee it up too high you may be hitting off the top of the clubface which will guarantee lots of backspin and a high ball flight.

Youi could also try holding off your left wrist through the impact zone, i.e. don't allow your hands to flip through impact (but still rotate your forarms anticlockwise and make sure your right arm straightens just after impact, don't allow your right elbow to fold until your arms are pointing to the sky)....,

**trbd4** · 09-14-2006

I had the same problem and thought it was the club loft.......it's just not possible that it might be my fault. I went to pro shop and did the launch moniter thing. Was fitted for and bought a 9 deg. ping G5 with stiffer shaft. Back out at the range the ball flew just as high as before....turns out it had nothing to do with the club at all. It was my release.

**trbd4** · 09-14-2006

I was releasing too early and having the club head passing ahead of my hands at impact.
This turned my 9 deg into a 15. Now I'm working on maintaining my right wrist angle (bent a little bit) at impact. this leads my hands ahead of the club into impact.

**macmai** · 09-14-2006

Hmm, all very good advice, esp. about the vertical curve of the bulge 'n roll, and the wrist angle. Will give it a shot and see how it goes. Thanks again...

**Jeff_h** · 09-14-2006

Here's a thought.......

Why don't you go to Golfsmith or similar and buy some impact tape.

Hit some balls (on an outside range) and actually see where you're making contact and compare that to ball flight.

It might be enlightening.