Wie at the 84 Lumber Classic

[jbooma]

So far she is +4 however she is showing glimpses of how could she can be. She needs to work on her putter but her length is not a problem on a par 4 she hit it to about 8 foot of the hole just missed the birdie putt.

I know many think she needs to concentrate on the womens tournament but she will not be challeneged like she is on the mens events, which will help her out on the LPGA once she is able to play more events. If she learns how to handle the greens for the men it will make her that much better for the womens.

From what I saw so far today I can see her being competitive on the PGA in the future, she has the talent just need to work on some things.

[jbooma]

She has the chance to finish better then John Daly who ended up +6

[golfaholic]

Yeah Go Jd!!! U Da Man!!!!

[ironman]

no chance that Wie catches a wieddle birdie

[jbooma]

She is one ahead of Daly

[ROLLMSTR8]

Never should of turned pro, Should of just dominated and got tons of confidence in the amateur side and high school and college system then went to LPGA ! Money isnt everything.

[dorkman53]

Currently she's tied for 133rd, at +12. Chances of weekend play? "Slight", assuming she could ace or eagle every hole left.........
Probably going to have a bit of free time this weekend......

[dorkman53]

Well, she ended up dead last, +14 with a 79 followed by an 81. Hey, I could save Nike a lot of money. They could pay me 10% of what they paid her for an appearance fee, and I would promise to come in dead last, too. I'd have to invest in some makeup, a short skirt, some chic dark glasses, and some dangly earrings, but I think I could afford it. I could deduct them from income tax as business expense......

[jbooma]

Well, she ended up dead last, +14 with a 79 followed by an 81. Hey, I could save Nike a lot of money. They could pay me 10% of what they paid her for an appearance fee, and I would promise to come in dead last, too. I'd have to invest in some makeup, a short skirt, some chic dark glasses, and some dangly earrings, but I think I could afford it. I could deduct them from income tax as business expense......

The funny thing is she would beat you as well

Seriously why do people care that she plays on the mens events, she makes the events money that is what they want I love how jealous some of you are. No name player will ever cause the same reaction.

She also may not finish dead last since two are in front of her and she is one back.

[Duds]

oh that jealousy thing is getting really old....

The funny thing is she would beat you as well

Seriously why do people care that she plays on the mens events, she makes the events money that is what they want I love how jealous some of you are. No name player will ever cause the same reaction.

She also may not finish dead last since two are in front of her and she is one back.

[Pjake]

jbooma...Let's get real.......Okay???? She has basically finished DEAD LAST in the last 2men's events she has participated in. The 84, despite the fact that it is held in a beautiful place...great course..... is not attended by a majority of the top players.....yet....DEAD LAST. Course is way too long for her. How about some strategic thinking here.....just because your dad is a friend of the sponsor does not mean your game fits the course.

Jealousy has NOTHING to do with it......petition or file a suite to join the LPGA and shut up until that time that your accomplishments warrent consideration/merit to play in a men's event.

She could and would kick my butt on the course.....but her insistance on talking PGA/Ryder Cup etc....is WAY to premature. Find a place to compete and develop...and THEN.....let's talk about PGA and Ryder Cup.

Prove yourself first.

Stop being a Wie apologist......and let her find her level. It just seems that no one wants to earn their stripes before entering the arena.

Michelle dear...please go away, until you have reached half the status of an Anika !!!!

Peter

[garcia is god]

jbooma...Let's get real.......Okay???? She has basically finished DEAD LAST in the last 2men's events she has participated in. The 84, despite the fact that it is held in a beautiful place...great course..... is not attended by a majority of the top players.....yet....DEAD LAST. Course is way too long for her. How about some strategic thinking here.....just because your dad is a friend of the sponsor does not mean your game fits the course.

Jealousy has NOTHING to do with it......petition or file a suite to join the LPGA and shut up until that time that your accomplishments warrent consideration/merit to play in a men's event.

She could and would kick my butt on the course.....but her insistance on talking PGA/Ryder Cup etc....is WAY to premature. Find a place to compete and develop...and THEN.....let's talk about PGA and Ryder Cup.

Prove yourself first.

Stop being a Wie apologist......and let her find her level. It just seems that no one wants to earn their stripes before entering the arena.

Michelle dear...please go away, until you have reached half the status of an Anika !!!!

Peter

Don't bother with him. Wie could (& may very well) finish last in the next 10 events & he'd still accuse everybody of being jealous!

[Pjake]

Thanks GiG....

BTW....a agree on your most hated except Chris D. He is a good guy, a talented golfer, and a potential spark plug for Ryder Cup '06. Let's put Sabatini in place of Chris.... talking about a true PR*CK.

Peter

[jbooma]

jbooma...Let's get real.......Okay???? She has basically finished DEAD LAST in the last 2men's events she has participated in. The 84, despite the fact that it is held in a beautiful place...great course..... is not attended by a majority of the top players.....yet....DEAD LAST. Course is way too long for her. How about some strategic thinking here.....just because your dad is a friend of the sponsor does not mean your game fits the course.

Jealousy has NOTHING to do with it......petition or file a suite to join the LPGA and shut up until that time that your accomplishments warrent consideration/merit to play in a men's event.

She could and would kick my butt on the course.....but her insistance on talking PGA/Ryder Cup etc....is WAY to premature. Find a place to compete and develop...and THEN.....let's talk about PGA and Ryder Cup.

Prove yourself first.

Stop being a Wie apologist......and let her find her level. It just seems that no one wants to earn their stripes before entering the arena.

Michelle dear...please go away, until you have reached half the status of an Anika !!!!

Peter

I did not know there is a rule you have to be at the Annika level to play on a mens event. Don't you have to be just invited to play, I believe that is the rule

Let me ask you a question if you are Wie if you are not ALLOWED to play on LGPA events would you just sit at home and practice the whole time or if invited to play at a mens tournament go play to see how you compare with the best of the world??

Once you realize that Michelle is not worried at all about dominating the LPGA like Annika then you can answer that question.

Her goal is to play on the pga not dominate the lpga, there is a difference. I would also say her play in the PGA last year and this year is why she played so well on the LPGA but I guess you can not think logically like that now

[Pjake]

Yo Jbooma.........read my post (s).... I'm talking 1/2 of what Ms Sorenstam has accomplished... OK???? Not a rule by any stretch of the imagination....but let's get real here.............................OK??? If in fact her goal is to play on the PGA....than she's leaving LOTS O' CASH on the table.....because she is not going to make any $$$ other than what her sponsors are dishing to her for apppearance fees. No Cut No Cash...other than what the sponsor dishes.......

Look.....every one needs to pay dues......NO exceptions.......Shi*t...she's just about 17 YO....take a few years and learn what it takes to WIN....then do what you want.

You are the prototypical modern fan.....................it appears you think she's entitled....she's not...she needs to earn her place, like all the greats before her. Just because NIKE and her parents thinks she is automatically deserving.......she is not. There are at least half a dozen WOMEN golfers that ..........frankley.......are better than Michelle Wie.

We all have goals.....I want more cash than Donald Trump....I ain't going to get there soon.....but if I do ..... I'll shoot you a couple of $000K's....deal????
P

[dorkman53]

The funny thing is she would beat you as well

Nothing particularly amusing about that. ANY member of the LPGA would clean my clock, as would ANY Nationwide Tour player, and ANY Canadian Tour member. My index is 10. I'm a reasonably good recreational golfer; no more, no less. I am not trying to be something I'm not. Whether Michelle Wie is a better golfer than me is a no brainer, just like her decision to keep entering and embarassing herself in men's events where she is not competitive.

[andrew7]

Nothing particularly amusing about that. ANY member of the LPGA would clean my clock, as would ANY Nationwide Tour player, and ANY Canadian Tour member. My index is 10. I'm a reasonably good recreational golfer; no more, no less. I am not trying to be something I'm not. Whether Michelle Wie is a better golfer than me is a no brainer, just like her decision to keep entering and embarassing herself in men's events where she is not competitive.

It's known as freedom of choice mate.....Isn't that what we live for in the western world? The right to chose how we wish to spend our own time if we can afford it?
If she wants to embarass herself then that's fine by me.... it's her choice...

[Singsling]

It's known as freedom of choice mate.....Isn't that what we live for in the western world? The right to chose how we wish to spend our own time if we can afford it?
If she wants to embarass herself then that's fine by me.... it's her choice...

Great! I choose to play in the next PGA event? Oh isn't that how it works?

[dorkman53]

Great! I choose to play in the next PGA event? Oh isn't that how it works?

Yeah, and I choose to be the CEO of IBM. Oh, wait......you mean there are qualifications involved........?

[garcia is god]

Yeah, and I choose to be the CEO of IBM. Oh, wait......you mean there are qualifications involved........?

......

[andrew7]

Great! I choose to play in the next PGA event? Oh isn't that how it works?

No, you didn't get invited...............

[poe4soul]

All I know about Wie playing is she is taking a spot of another golfer who qualified to be there. Some pro is sitting at home watching her come in dead last on an exemption. These are pro's who have bills to pay and need to compete to make money. So talk all you want about exemptions and invitations but the fact is she can not compete at the PGA level yet and she has not earned a spot on the tour. Wie, go to Q' School and earn your spot on the PGA Tour.

[jbooma]

Yo Jbooma.........read my post (s).... I'm talking 1/2 of what Ms Sorenstam has accomplished... OK???? Not a rule by any stretch of the imagination....but let's get real here.............................OK??? If in fact her goal is to play on the PGA....than she's leaving LOTS O' CASH on the table.....because she is not going to make any $$$ other than what her sponsors are dishing to her for apppearance fees. No Cut No Cash...other than what the sponsor dishes.......

Look.....every one needs to pay dues......NO exceptions.......Shi*t...she's just about 17 YO....take a few years and learn what it takes to WIN....then do what you want.

You are the prototypical modern fan.....................it appears you think she's entitled....she's not...she needs to earn her place, like all the greats before her. Just because NIKE and her parents thinks she is automatically deserving.......she is not. There are at least half a dozen WOMEN golfers that ..........frankley.......are better than Michelle Wie.

We all have goals.....I want more cash than Donald Trump....I ain't going to get there soon.....but if I do ..... I'll shoot you a couple of $000K's....deal????
P

You still do not get. I do not think she is entitled but it is clear there are sponsors that want her to continue, so in that she is getting a break. Not everyone has to follow the same path it is clear many have seen her ability and feel she will be playing on the PGA in the future. This has nothing to do with her making money, she wants to prove that she can play on the PGA thats it, thats all. She has been giving changes to play so she is taking care of it.

It s clear many feel you have to walk a certain path to qualify, but as you can see here others have different options.

Your point about her earning her way, she is, she still has to win. The funny thing what many people forget to realize had she not had her LPGA event in Maryland earlier this year before the US Open she would have easily qualified for the US Open. Her home course was one of the qualifiers and the guys that did qualify from there she beat before, she decided to try were other PGA pros tried and just missed.

You claim you are not jealous yet you keep fighting this fight and you are not even close in winning and are so wrong, so it does seem you are jealous our you would not continue.

What are you going to say when she does win on the LPGA and continues to play on the PGA?

[jbooma]

Nothing particularly amusing about that. ANY member of the LPGA would clean my clock, as would ANY Nationwide Tour player, and ANY Canadian Tour member. My index is 10. I'm a reasonably good recreational golfer; no more, no less. I am not trying to be something I'm not. Whether Michelle Wie is a better golfer than me is a no brainer, just like her decision to keep entering and embarassing herself in men's events where she is not competitive.

Wow if embarassing herself = 1 or 2 shots from another player in last or 2 or 3 shots from the cut line then I am scared or your personal self esteem.

You think she is embarassing herself, she is gaining experience there is a difference. She has had a bad couple of weeks, big deal pros do the samle. The fact is she still was 3 strokes from the cut line last year and performed very well in the womens majors.

Once she is able to concentrate on golf all the time she will be a lot better, you do know there is something called school for 16 year olds right

[jbooma]

Yeah, and I choose to be the CEO of IBM. Oh, wait......you mean there are qualifications involved........?

well if you could get the votes needed from the board to be elected then you may not need the qaulifications

[dorkman53]

What are you going to say when she does win on the LPGA and continues to play on the PGA?

"That she NOW deserves all that has been coming to her preferentially to this point."



So far, she's getting all of these appearances based on what she might become later, not because of anything she has accomplished to this point. It's Nike trying to recover their investment in her before the fruit is ripe.

Remember Bodie Miller the skier at the last Winter Olympics? Nike made the same mistake on him. They had shot all sorts of promotional ads because he was supposed to win several gold medals. He discussed his philosophy of life, etc., etc. He was a dismal flop, but they still aired all of the "image ads" featuring him. It became increasingly painfully funny to watch the ads the farther into the Olympics when it became obvious that he was not only not going to win multiple golds, but wasn't going to even be competitive in most of the events.

Nike appears to take the position that they'll make the person a celebrity before they have earned the honor. They hit big with Tiger, who got a multiyear contract worth tens of millions when he had just turned pro. But so far, it looks like their marketing scheme isn't doing as well with Bodie Miller and Michelle Wie. It makes me wonder if some heads are going to roll in the marketing department of Nike.

[garcia is god]

You think she is embarassing herself, she is gaining experience there is a difference.

Dear, oh dear... If she went on a homicidal rampage, you'd probably try to justify it.

I'm a Wie fan, yet her current choices are nothing short of ridiculous. If "gaining experience" comes at the cost of making yourself a laughing stock, getint banned from future events on the European & shattering your own confidence, then we've heard it all.

Do you work for Nike?

[Macgregor]

If her confidence is being affected,what she learns will be negated by her loss on confidence.If she is fine in herself,she will learn a lot.Mr Garcia is God,how on earth do you know whether or not she is learning from this? Only she can say that.

[garcia is god]

If her confidence is being affected,what she learns will be negated by her loss on confidence.If she is fine in herself,she will learn a lot.Mr Garcia is God,how on earth do you know whether or not she is learning from this? Only she can say that.

You're right, I don't know definitely whether or not she's learning anything.

All I do know is that going out to several men's tournaments & finishing last or thereabouts in every single one can't possibly make sense for anybody other than Nike.

[Pjake]

jbooma....re: your comments on finishing 1 or 2 strokes from a player in last or 1 or 2 strokes from the cut....are actually quite laughable.

If a male were to finish 1 or 2 strokes from dead last as Ms. Wie has....or if a male were to miss cuts as consistently as Ms. Wie has on the PGA, that male would find his butt on the Nationwide Tour in an attempt to EARN his way back onto the PGA tour....or go through the grind of Q school to EARN his way back onto the tour.

Again, she is as talented a 16 year old as there probably has been with several notable exceptions. I wish her nothing but the best, but at least earn the privilege of playing on the PGA tour.

Right now, I'd have to say that the only thing she is really learning on the PGA tour, is that she really can't hang with the dudes. Maybe someday she will. But in the meantime, many, many folks are getting a bit tired of having Ms. Wie jammed down their throats by her pimp sponsors. Tiger has it framed beautifully....he says plays to WIN, can the same be said for Ms. Wie?

[emc]

In a months time she wil be 17 YO Michelle Wie. That doesn't sound as good to the sponsors

[chubdo]

except she already has the attention of the sponsors and already has the money in the bank. if tomorrow she stops doing anything, she will never starve, unlike, errr, some if not most of you.

and at this precise moment, she is better short and long games than some if not all of you. therefore, suck it up and go practice knowing that you will not go anywhere anyway.

[Singsling]

and at this precise moment, she is better short and long games than some if not all of you. therefore, suck it up and go practice knowing that you will not go anywhere anyway.

Er so what, so do about 10,000 golfers and yet they are not given the chances that she has. She couldn't do my job either but at least I had to earn the right to be where I am rather than leapfrog ahead because of some marketing gimmick.

[chubdo]

if you tell wie about your job, i am pretty sure she will have the maturity not to wish the worst for you.

listen, i think wie had it the easy, at least easier than 999.999% golfers out there. because of her talent and some hard work. but she is no tiger woods. people wanted like that, the female tiger woods, but she is not. never will be.

HOWEVER, having said that, i think she deserves more decent treatment. says things here like you dare to say it in her face in front of a crowd. to me, that is a decent human being with balls.

otherwise, i consider it weak and hypocritical.

[chubdo]

in fact, i remember so vividly people on this board laughing at tiger woods couple years ago for not winning for a year and for having a blond gf. where the f are they now? care to come out to explain a little?

bunch of wussies.

[chubdo]

may be those of you so very critical of a 16, 17 yo girl can share with us what the f you have done at that age besides jerking off???

share with us your golf history? why you sucked that bad back then and you smarted up now?

so my question is why you sucked so bad then?

definition of so bad, for simplicity, is that you did not make pro.

i am all ears.

[Singsling]

iHOWEVER, having said that, i think she deserves more decent treatment. says things here like you dare to say it in her face in front of a crowd. to me, that is a decent human being with balls.

otherwise, i consider it weak and hypocritical.

I would say it to her face in a heartbeat, I am actually angry that no-one of her advisors isn't saying it to her now.

She should get on with trying to become the best golfer she can be within the womens game, which involves getting her game in shape by soundly beating every amateur she can play against and then, when she is old enough, by winning events on the LPGA tour and then if and when she has become as dominant as Annika she can think about playing against the men.

This is all perfectly sound and reasonable advice, the only reason it isn't being followed is because Daddy Wie and Nike want some cash.

[Pjake]

chubdo..... your last three posts, when taken into consideration as a collective work, displays one hell of a stream of conciousness. That being said.....and since you brought up the topic.......why don't you take your little 3" pee pee that sits in your right hand (just playing the %'s here) and flog to your hearts content, while you sit before a life sized poster of Michelle.

This is getting about as bad as the debate on abortion & religion.

Michelle is a great talent.....NO ONE really has ever disputed that (at least on any of the dittis on this board). Sixteen/seventeen....it really doesn't matter. Wonderful talent, could whoop 99.99% of all who have ever posted here.....and should, given her training. But, for God's sake, let's not enshrine her in the all time Hall of Fame.

Let her find her level of excellence in an arena that is reasonable (LPGA, or some foreign tour)....THEN push the boys. If you look at HER collective body of work, she's just not there YET. Hell...at 17, she's got plenty of time to put together a full out assault on the boys.

whew!!!

[Singsling]

may be those of you so very critical of a 16, 17 yo girl can share with us what the f you have done at that age besides jerking off???

share with us your golf history? why you sucked that bad back then and you smarted up now?

so my question is why you sucked so bad then?

definition of so bad, for simplicity, is that you did not make pro.

i am all ears.

Obviously you are a 17 year old yourself and English is not your first language. You clearly haven't thought any of this through.

I'm going to the bar now with a couple of mates to have a few beers, enjoy your evening.

[Pjake]

Singsling...isn't it 6:15 AM where you are???? Dude, although a great response to Mr chubdo, 6:15 is a tad early to lay one on..............LMAO!!!!

You go Boy!

[chubdo]

that is right, going the bar to get your brain more fried.

bunch of bozos who can only pick on a girl online.

wussies!

[chubdo]

anyone with issues of wie playing in men's tour has much deeper unresolved issues of their own.

it is clear that she is already playing on them already, and all you guys can do is to ***** about it after the fact.

the most fundamental issue is this: she had a life and you do not. and you have to get drunk to alleviate your misery!

ha, take that lolo!

[chubdo]

it is pathetic for singsling to say he will advice wie in her face. why don't you get a poster of her and talk to that? who the f are you that she will listen to? are you out of your mind?

also, it is your idea what she should do. whether she aims to be the best or not is none of your business.

i bet you are a big loser in life that you just have to come to the internet trying to be someone!

[emc]

You know who she now reminds me of? Chuckie 3 sticks as he is now called. All potential but no game under the gun

[garcia is god]

it is pathetic for singsling to say he will advice wie in her face. why don't you get a poster of her and talk to that? who the f are you that she will listen to? are you out of your mind?

also, it is your idea what she should do. whether she aims to be the best or not is none of your business.

i bet you are a big loser in life that you just have to come to the internet trying to be someone!

Unless you're one of spank's aliases, I really don't understand where you're coming from.

Look at most of the criticism above, there aren't too many insults. Most people simply feel she is not ready to play at this level. Hardly something that one wouldn't say to her face if one knew her.

This jealousy & "she's better than you" argument is also strange. OF COURSE she's better than us, so are many, many female club & tour pros. I don't think anybody is ever comparing a professional's game to our own. Why are we "jealous"? There are multiple tour pros earning millions... I often feel they're lucky to be in that position, but I'm hardly jealous - not sure why Michelle is any different (she's only a few years younger than most of them).

[chubdo]

i am responding to 2 sentiments in general:
1. those people who are not kindly offering their piece of mind on what wie should do. instead, they are projecting bad thoughts and wishes on her. case in point, someone wrote he wonders what will happen to her if she turns 17. it is extremely clear the motive behind that writing is one of wishing her fall from where she is. i think that is very immature, esp coming from adults and esp coming from adults who are not much of a golfer, that is, pro level, and therefore has absolutely no first hand idea what an aspiring young golfer goes through. talking on paper is cheap. taling on paper and wishing bad wishes will bring bad karma to the those people.

2. i am simply responding to those who ridicule my posts. my opinion and my rights. if you do not understand, walk on. BUT, one thing for sure, i do believe the sony, nike and the pr team working with wie have thought about her future much more thoroughly than you and i and other bozoes on this board. one thing she does not need is advice from this board, esp ill conceived ones and esp ill meaning ones.

3. why shouldn't she do whatever she wants???? we have a president that goes to a war based on lies, we have people killing people because they believe they are the chosen ones, we have teenagers doing drugs, drinking, we have adults doing drugs and drinking,,,why can't wie try to be what she aspires to be? why should she listen to others and stop trying?

would you recommend garcia to go back to spain to spend more time in their local tour to get ready to win on pga since it has been more or less proven for quite some time that he is a good golfer but just cannot bring home the trophy? should garcia live by that logic as well and reassess his life time goal?

[chubdo]

should any pro golfer who is on the pga tour but has not won any tournaments in the past 5-7 years just quit to make room for other qualifiers who is yet to be proven either way but has bills to pay?

[Singsling]

Singsling...isn't it 6:15 AM where you are???? Dude, although a great response to Mr chubdo, 6:15 is a tad early to lay one on..............LMAO!!!!

You go Boy!

As much of an old soak as I am I do actually live in New York, it was 6.15 pm. For some reason it displays my favourie course as my home coure/location..

However I am off to Singapore next week and will be playing not only Ria Bintan but also at Sentosa golf club where they played the Singapore Open a couple of weeks back, I'm dying to have a go at those par 5's!

And who knows if we get on it then I might well be still going at 6.15 am!! Celebrating a European win in the Ryder Cup maybe....

btw I stand by my last comments re our stalker friend here.

[garcia is god]

would you recommend garcia to go back to spain to spend more time in their local tour to get ready to win on pga since it has been more or less proven for quite some time that he is a good golfer but just cannot bring home the trophy? should garcia live by that logic as well and reassess his life time goal?

Well.. your post was reasonable (& worthy of serious reply) until this point.

Are you saying that Garcia has not proven himself on the PGA tour & cannot win on it?

How many PGA tournaments has he won then? Do let me know.

Quite how this parallel of somebody who's been near the top of the money list several times, a multiple tour-event winner, numerous top 10s in majors, outstanding Ryder Cup record. is relevant to somebody who's finished dead last in several tour events is certainly interesting.

[chubdo]

that is exactly my point, that we measure people according to our OWN standard and decides who is worthy and who is not.

i am garcia is exceptional, one of the great players of this game ever. however, he is being labelled by many as someone who cannot get the job done of winning majors. in those people's eyes, he is a nobody. you know what i am talking about.

back to wie, same principle applies. i along many others think that she has already accomplished a lot where she is. whether she should go the the route suggested by some people is really not the point. back then, many people were blaming woods for having a girlfriend. totaly bs then and more son in retrospect.

i think wie is awesome. she whines here and there because she is 16. people here whine because they never grew up.

[garcia is god]

that is exactly my point, that we measure people according to our OWN standard and decides who is worthy and who is not.

Well sorry, but I don't see how your post was saying anything of the sort.

You explicitly said that Garcia was "unable" to win on the PGA tour & hadn't proven himself on it. I don't think there's even one golf fan who thinks he's not "good enough" to play on that tour (his multiple wins make that pretty clear).

Whether Garcia is a "great player" is entirely subjective & that could be debated all day - but it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

What is beyond doubt is that he DESERVES to play on the PGA Tour. That is the issue here, Wie has done very little to suggest she deserves to play on this tour YET.

There is no parallel between Wie & Garcia.

[Singsling]

that is exactly my point, that we measure people according to our OWN standard and decides who is worthy and who is not.

i am garcia is exceptional, one of the great players of this game ever. however, he is being labelled by many as someone who cannot get the job done of winning majors. in those people's eyes, he is a nobody. you know what i am talking about.

back to wie, same principle applies. i along many others think that she has already accomplished a lot where she is. whether she should go the the route suggested by some people is really not the point. back then, many people were blaming woods for having a girlfriend. totaly bs then and more son in retrospect.

i think wie is awesome. she whines here and there because she is 16. people here whine because they never grew up.

Ok I'm bored so I'll give this a go just in case you might learn something.

Sport is an artificial human activity particularly the game of golf, whereas archery could have been justified as training for the King's Archers golf has no such benefit, its not even much of an excercise.

So how come we are interested? Well we can recognise tallented individuals and be impressed by any sport but mostly in sports that we take part in. We like to both spectate and play but sport is essentially meaningless, it is as the saying goes war by other means.

But crucial to all sport is the application of rules, rules that however arbitrary have to followed by all who take part, cheating debases the sport and people lose interest in it.

Their are rules in all golf competitions as to who is eligible to play, even the Open championship is not really open, you have to have a handicap of around 2 to even qualify for the first round of regionals, and club championships are usually restricted to those with single figure handicaps.

So back to Ms Wie... she has not in any sense qualified to play in PGA tour events, she did not go through Q-school, she has not won an open amateur event that provides entries, she did not get through qualifying at the US Open.

Frankly I do not care whether she is male, female, blue, black, 16 or 60, Martian or anything else, to get in to any tournament she should follow the rules.

Now exemptions in the case of Annika and Laura Davies have been made but these were on the back of years of tournament success in the LPGA and those high achievers had a go with dignity and for the moment at least are content not to go through it again. Annika even had the good sense to play at an event on a short course with doglegs that would not put her at a disadvantage. Wie having achieved not very much was a curiosity at first but really is becoming a bit of an embarrassment now because it is clear her game is not up to it, maybe it will be in the future or maybe there is a better player out there who will challenge on the PGA tour one day, great, but Wie circa 2006 is not the genuine article.

Wie is not allowed on the LPGA tour because she is too young, team Wie is getting around this by getting invites on other tours but that does not change her age, the LPGA and I agree that 16 is too young to be playing professional sport full time and they look at what happened to tennis in the 1980's as a cautionary tale. They and I agree that she should be getting better at what she does in the same way as every other sportsman and woman in the world by playing against her peers in age and ability, if she has to wait a year the so be it.

And finally it is mostly about money, money for Mr Wie and money for Nike.

Now you may or may not agree with the above analysis but to resort to ad hominem attacks and claiming that people are just jealous reveals a lack of understanding of both the issues involved and the standards of rational debate.

Right its 11 am off to have brunch!

[chubdo]

since you tried to sound condescending, i quickly glanced at your post in about 3 seconds and i am pretty sure i did not miss much if anything.

thank you for reviewing for us the rule of golf according to you and next time to strike a better balance, please also include the fact that there are invites at the mercy of the sponsors. if you have a problem with that, you may want to rewrite the reality of golf. if a pga hopeful was locked outside the gate because of wie's entrance, may be that person can stand up and protest for himself. i am confident that you are not at that level.

sometimes in stupor reality is fuzzy.

[chubdo]

i think there is a strong parallel between wie and garcia. that is the point, i see what i see, you see what you see.

yet, i do not go and tell garcia or wie what they should do.

[garcia is god]

i think there is a strong parallel between wie and garcia. that is the point, i see what i see, you see what you see.

yet, i do not go and tell garcia or wie what they should do.

That may be your point, but you haven't substaniated why you think so & have refused to address any of the issues.

Go & read your original post - you argued that Garcia hadn't won on the PGA tour & didn't have the game to be there.

I've repeatedly told you that he has won multiple times, finished top 10 etc. Therefore, other than you, there is NOBODY who doesn't think he's "good enough" to play on that tour.

No doubt you'll completely gloss over all the points mentioned & say "That's my point - there's a parallel between Wie & Garcia yet again". How about actually standing by the points you originally made in your post (such as Garcia's record on the PGA tour)?

I won't hold my breath though.

[Singsling]

please also include the fact that there are invites at the mercy of the sponsors. if you have a problem with that, you may want to rewrite the reality of golf. if a pga hopeful was locked outside the gate because of wie's entrance, may be that person can stand up and protest for himself.

I am completely aware of that, that is of course how Wie is playing since she is not yet good enough to actually qualify for a tournament on her own.

It is not the reality of golf here it is the reality of marketing, find another golfer of a similar calibre who has ever got that many invites.

And PGA players are indeed starting to protest as it becomes obvious that Wie isn't yet up to it.


Good luck to her but the longer this goes the more I fear for her.

[Pjake]

Yo...chubdo.... when the day is done and your sitting at home with a cool one between your legs......give it up. Give it up...loser....

fyi.. according to a poll in Golf Digest Mag.....77% say she should give it up. ***** slap yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! amd grow up.

[chubdo]

yo loser, i do not live my life according to what others say, certainly not according to stats from a golf magazine.

majority does not rule when it comes to class and decency.

you may want to explain to us what you mean by your cool one between your legs. i am not gay so i do not know.

[chubdo]

1. should wie be given exemptions?

i think yes. as long as there are sponsors willing to invite her and she is willing to accept, it is fine with me. OBVIOUSLY, IT HAS BEEN FINE WITH PGA. you disagree? i am all ears. tell me why you think PGA is doing something that you think is not right.

2. is wie overextending herself with all these challenges on mens' tour?

i think yes. however, i have no access to her and her team's thinking, therefore, it is senseless for me to guess. would i continue to advice her to stay the course? no. i think she should not single out mens tour. she should play as many as reasonable with her school schedule.

3. are people jealous of her good fortune?
hell yeah. that is why many are overjoyed to see her failing. just look at some of posts on this board and you will see clearly who has unresolved issues projecting onto a 16 yo golfer.

4. is garcia any good?

very very good, but never won any major. in golf, having won a major or not is a big distinction. i have made that point again and again, so here it is one more time. if you think the garcia and wie situations are different, you are right. of course they are different, but it is the similarity that you have missed.

[emc]

But Sergio makes the cut on PGA events doesn't he?

[chubdo]

but sergia does not make it to the winners circle in the majors does he?

it is a matter of looking from different perspectives or half full/empty, isn't it? i know many very good players who did not start winning until they get to the champions tour. is 16-17 too late?

with the same logic,

but wie does not make the cut on pga tour does she?

or, the other side...

but wie gets to play on pga tour anyway because she gets the invite and she accepts the invite, is that not the case?

is sponsor's exemptions unfair? is it unfair for her to accept the invite? or is it unfair to others that she accepts the invite?

well, what is fair? to whom?

is it not the case that some simply cannot accept the fact that wie is the lottery winner in the game called life?

WHAT IF ONE DAY WIE INDEED MAKES THE CUT ON PGA?

[dorkman53]

WHAT IF ONE DAY WIE INDEED MAKES THE CUT ON PGA?

Golf Review's server will probably crash, because you will make so many posts on the subject, then bump your own posts 237 times/hour.

I've been in touch with Mr. Wie and Nike, and you are hereby appointed Michelle Wie's new publicist, since you have such a passion for the subject. Please reply ASAP, and then bump your own reply with new thoughts every few minutes for the next 48 hours. The world waits.....

[chubdo]

the number of my posts pales in comparison with yours. further, i cannot match yours, those with lewd content and attempted humor.


funny how you do not have enough in the bag to discuss issues and have to resort to silly conjectures.

man, you are a real dork.

[dorkman53]

the number of my posts pales in comparison with yours. further, i cannot match yours, those with lewd content and attempted humor.


funny how you do not have enough in the bag to discuss issues and have to resort to silly conjectures.

man, you are a real dork.

At least I don't bump my own posts 2 and 3 times, as you have repeatedly done.

You are obviously a reasonably intelligent person, judging from your posts, but you simply can't comprehend that, other from a few truly hateful, over the top posts, most of us on this board DO NOT HATE MICHELLE WIE. We are simply overly tired of the way she and Nike have "beaten the system" by continuing to enter her in events in which she is not competitive, simply for financial reasons.

We can go on and on, and I doubt you will ever get this through your skull, because you are such a die hard Wie supporter.

Try to understand these concepts before you send off another angry salvo:

1. I don't hate Michelle Wie, but I despise the way she has been marketed.

2. I realize that she is a better golfer than I am, as are ALL professional golfers. I am not jealous of Michelle Wie, or any professional golfer who plays far better than I do.

3. If and when she has established herself as a winner on the LPGA tour, it may then be appropriate for her to attempt to play on the PGA Tour. In the meantime, if she is so desperate to play with the men, why doesn't she try the Canadian Tour or the Nationwide Tour?

4. Continuing to bump your own posts makes you look obsessed.

[chubdo]

i am not as internet literate as you are apparently, so i am only guessing that by bumping you mean i posted after my own posts. well, when i think of something additional to say, that is what i do. i do not see much to it. if you think that is obsessed, ok with me. i will keep bumping and let others deal with it.

you have made several points which, even though i do not agree 100%, are certainly valid.

i think the wie phenom as least has 2 major aspects to it.

1. as you pointed out, everyone on her train is making good money, certainly including herself. in a capitalistic world, money is money and that is the bottom line. (when home depot drive others out of biz, sorry, that is way it is. when ford lays off workers, sorry, that is the way it is) of course, we can talk about taste, style, class, even ethics but that is another topic all by itself. the lure of money is a huge incentive for people to excel and we can debate that as well. in the older days, you have the hogans, the sneads, etc playing the game for the game itself. but that has changed, and i do not think we will ever go back. as long as there are people like tiger and wie, people will be drawn to the game. and because of that, some people will try to make money off that trend. sponsors being one. and because they laid out the dough, they feel they are entitled to do something that they like, such as, inviting wie to play to generate publicity and possibly seeing and being part of history in the making which of course is a gamble. she has done poorly so far. i am not surprised and certainly by the tone of people on this board, they have predicted that 10 generations ago. but the reality is that she keeps on coming back for more. do you think sponsors will stop inviting her to come because of that track record? i do not think so. so, you people who are sick of watching and hearing wie making a total fool of herself simply have to tune it out and stop paying attention. some people are tired of howard stern, but some cannot get enough. the general public is not necessarily you and i. pay attention to what is on the covor of those magazines near the check out counters in your supermarket. that is what "people" what to read and know and those people buy those magazines because notoriaty and filth sell. martha stewart was in jail and now she is doing ok with her shows. what gives! but i say, good for her! so to generate for heat for myself, and forget about garcia for one moment, take this: martha and wie are very much alike because they refuse to hide under a rock.

[chubdo]

2. (bumping now?)
i do think wie is genuinely interested in being the best she can become, IF NOT THE BEST. whether she will get there is another topic but i do think she thinks she can, she can beat men, she can play in the masters, she can be ryder cup member. i think some of that is crazy, nuts, but hey, from the mentality of a 17 yo, i say, go for it. the worst is that you fail, and you have failed so far, so what is there to worry about? should she play it safe and be on lpga more? sure. should she avoid mens tour and decline invites? why? how many times in the history of mankind can a 17 yo be invited again and again to play against the best of men? WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HIDE UNDER A ROCK??!!
if she is mentally fit to assess the current situation and decides that the current mix of events is good for her game, i say go for it. i do not know of her mental state, but to be able to go again and again into very challening situations against all odds takes great courage which is rarely seen in life and sports. so, to generate for heat, wie is very much alike rockie, going for more punishment and never back down. may be, just may be, she will land her punch when you least expect it.

[dorkman53]

Chubdo, I have only one more question for you, before I leave you to your endless ruminations regarding the defense of Michelle Wie.
Is your personal income, or income of any family member or close friends, in any way linked to the sale or marketing of golf equipment, or any of the golf tours? If so, I think your motivation is obvious. If not, I will compliment you on being the most tenacious and rabid Wie defender in the history of GR or any other board I've encountered.

[chubdo]

again, dorkman, you evade the issues at hand and resort to triviality. i take it you were made speechless because you agree, lol.

no, i am independently weathy thanks for my hard word early in my life. i do hold securities but as far as i know i am not long nike or sony.

[chubdo]

and if there is a stock called michelle wie, i will get in the ipo with a sizable chunk. i go long simply because you guys serve as a great contrarian indicator.

[dorkman53]

again, dorkman, you evade the issues at hand and resort to triviality. i take it you were made speechless because you agree, lol.

no, i am independently weathy thanks for my hard word early in my life. i do hold securities but as far as i know i am not long nike or sony.

I think we have both articulated our points of view adequately, and at this point we're simply shooting past each other. I can see that you are someone who will keep posting endlessly on the subject regardless of what anyone else thinks or says, so I will wish you the best and choose to continue to disagree peacefully with you. Cheers.

I hereby grant you the final shot. Give it your best. You've succeeded in boring me into submission.

[chubdo]

i am the one who has acknowledged others' opinion and stated my reaction. people on this board, you to some degree, just simply cannot stand wie. so, to make it more memorable, i do my best to express my views so that you cannot stand me either. you make sure i do not succeed, pal.

[poe4soul]

I think chubdo forgot to take his med's.

[Res Ipsa]

i am the one who has acknowledged others' opinion and stated my reaction. people on this board, you to some degree, just simply cannot stand wie. so, to make it more memorable, i do my best to express my views so that you cannot stand me either. you make sure i do not succeed, pal.

So you convince people you are right by making them hate you? Very good tactic. You should teach that one to the Harvard debate team.

[chubdo]

whether you decide to hate me or not, again, is not my concern. it is entirely up to you.

[chubdo]

poe, i took my vitamins this morning. don't you think it is time to try a new phrase?

[swvaguy]

That may be your point, but you haven't substaniated why you think so & have refused to address any of the issues.

Go & read your original post - you argued that Garcia hadn't won on the PGA tour & didn't have the game to be there.

I think the big reason he believes Wie belongs & Sergio doesn't is because he wouldn't 'get wood' if he saw Sergio in tight slacks, but he does every time he sees Michelle Wie in a short skirt. Factor in her sticking a putter grip 'where the sun sometimes shines', and he's standing up for the entire telecast...

It's got nothing to do with the talent factor, and everything to do with the lust factor...

[chubdo]

alright, lol, i gave in to your vivid imagination.

[FluidFeelLover]

The showing in Europe and at the 84 Lumber was pretty pathetic. But don't lose sight of the fact that she's only 16. Think about that. And sponsor exemptions are exactly that, used to generate interest. If she was merely finishing last every tournament, then maybe it would be a sham but its not. As a 15 year old she shot a 69 at a PGA event. That's amazing.

Its easy to criticize in hindsight.

We are witnessing a phenomenon and if you want to enjoy it do so. If not, that's your choice.

[dorkman53]

I think she should now be inducted into the golf Hall of Fame, based on the fact that she is certain to win a lot of tournaments during her career, and she is doing really well for someone who is still a teenager........

[emc]

She should be UN Secretary General, because she's 16

[andrew7]

Any thing that creates interest encourages more people to play golf is a good thing for all of us....
More sponsors, more expenditure on research for better equipment, more young ladies with normal hairstyles (rather than the "dyke-cut") taking up the game....

[chubdo]

to consider wie for hall of fame, one must retrospectively make dorkman the host of tonight show for being exceedingly funny.

making the UN secretary makes more sense, since both wie and annan do not do much.

[dorkman53]

to consider wie for hall of fame, one must retrospectively make dorkman the host of tonight show for being exceedingly funny.

making the UN secretary makes more sense, since both wie and annan do not do much.

I don't think I'd make a good host for the Tonight Show. I don't think I have the qualifications or experience as a comedian.......Wait a minute.....qualifications.....experience......mayb e that's the key.....

[chubdo]

don't worry, the motto is fake it until you make it.

[NickP]

This "She's only 16" argument is getting really tiring. If she refuses to do what most 16 year olds will do and if she wants to play with the "Men" then all 16 year old arguments need to go out the window.
She has chosen to compete with the men and if the argument is "She's Only 16" then maybe she should wait a couple of more years, attend college, gain some more strength (mentally) and learn to finish. The PGA will still be around in a couple of years for Wie to win a majority of events there.
She is playing on the men's circuit not only because she is getting sponsor's exemptions but primarily because she thinks she has the "game" to do so which I don't agree with. She is very much eligible to play on the LPGA and win some events there and then try her hand at the PGA tour.

[chubdo]

does not take a rocket scientist to say she is not competitive among pga players, in retrospect. whatever happens in the future we/wie will see.

[Norge]

Wie needs to be Challenged??? Her only recourse is to compete on the mens Tour??? I don't care if she's 16, 26, 46 or whatever. Everyone goes on and on about her age and ability, the money she has from endorsements etc., but what has she really done?? NOTHING!!! Lets compare her record to Annika or Babe and may others from the LPGA. Anyone that wants to compete at a higher level needs to hone their skills and prove they can maintain that level where Wie has barely kept pace. I have no problem with any golfer competing on any tour, but at least have the ability to live up to the expectations and requirements. She's used up enough sponsor exemptions on the men's tour without proving that she can compete. Until her abilities progress, stop wasting valuable spots for other pro golfers trying to attain their card and using up TV airtime. I can see lots of chunked/thin shots and 3 jacks when I play on the weekend. When I tune in to the the best golfers play, I want to see the best.

[FluidFeelLover]

This "She's only 16" argument is getting really tiring. If she refuses to do what most 16 year olds will do and if she wants to play with the "Men" then all 16 year old arguments need to go out the window.
She has chosen to compete with the men and if the argument is "She's Only 16" then maybe she should wait a couple of more years, attend college, gain some more strength (mentally) and learn to finish. The PGA will still be around in a couple of years for Wie to win a majority of events there.
She is playing on the men's circuit not only because she is getting sponsor's exemptions but primarily because she thinks she has the "game" to do so which I don't agree with. She is very much eligible to play on the LPGA and win some events there and then try her hand at the PGA tour.

What I am saying is look in the mirror first and judge her by the same standards you judge yourself. What did you do when you were 16? Did you think it was fair for others to judge you by what grownups were doing? No, you were 16 and wanted to be treated accordingly. Whatever the endeavor, just remember that a 16 year old should not be looked upon any differently than anyone else. When Larry Mize, former Masters Champion, shoots 85, 85, is there anyone out there saying he should never be allowed to tee it up until he qualifies for the tournament? How about when John Daly goes 85-88? Its the same thing, they got in on exemptions.

Also, remember Ms. Wie is not coercing anyone to invite her to their tournaments. Its the other way around. They are "invitations." The sponsors control the exemptions and want her at the tournament to make $$$$.

[dorkman53]

What I am saying is look in the mirror first and judge her by the same standards you judge yourself. What did you do when you were 16? Did you think it was fair for others to judge you by what grownups were doing? No, you were 16 and wanted to be treated accordingly. Whatever the endeavor, just remember that a 16 year old should not be looked upon any differently than anyone else. When Larry Mize, former Masters Champion, shoots 85, 85, is there anyone out there saying he should never be allowed to tee it up until he qualifies for the tournament? How about when John Daly goes 85-88? Its the same thing, they got in on exemptions.

Also, remember Ms. Wie is not coercing anyone to invite her to their tournaments. Its the other way around. They are "invitations." The sponsors control the exemptions and want her at the tournament to make $$$$.

The folks that get to play in the Masters long after they are past their prime get to play because they WON THE MASTERS, and are getting a courtesy exemption. No one expects them to be competitive. It is just an old timer's honor.

It is different with a 16 year old who says she wants to play in and win the Masters and play on the Ryder Cup team BEFORE she has won anything at all, even on the LPGA Tour.

[emc]

Like most 16 YO girls, she is just beginning to realize the delights of 'playing with the boys' and she doesn't care that other people suggest she 'protects' hesrelf by going to college and staying among the LPGA

[Horseballs]

I don't think I'd make a good host for the Tonight Show. I don't think I have the qualifications or experience as a comedian.......Wait a minute.....qualifications.....experience......mayb e that's the key.....

Your analogy is faulty. Being a comedian or even remotely funny is apparently not a factor in being the host of the Tonight Show.